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On December 13 2011 23:06 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:59 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 22:54 Vond wrote:
oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL.
oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons.
It's not the fact that he proberushed. It's a cheese that can sometimes work. But a-moving the probes and then taking your hands off your keyboard in protest is not even close to being okay. "is not even close to being okay" lol. NaNiwa can do whatever he wants dude. And people can bitch about it how much they want. Atleast he is being himself and not some phony. He has guts. You make it sound like he did something really bad ^^ wich he didn't. Throwing a game isn't bad? Someone get sAviOr we need to get this information to him!
To NaNiwa... the game was pointless. He had played 3 close games and ended up 0-3. Not to happy about that i guess considering he has a huge winner mentality.
Throwing a game that is pointless isn't that bad in my opinion no. Nestea was out aswell. That game was just a waste of time. NaNiwa had the right to do that since the game didn't matter anyway.
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On December 13 2011 23:10 Nadarath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:06 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 22:59 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 22:54 Vond wrote:
oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL.
oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons.
It's not the fact that he proberushed. It's a cheese that can sometimes work. But a-moving the probes and then taking your hands off your keyboard in protest is not even close to being okay. "is not even close to being okay" lol. NaNiwa can do whatever he wants dude. And people can bitch about it how much they want. Atleast he is being himself and not some phony. He has guts. You make it sound like he did something really bad ^^ wich he didn't. Throwing a game isn't bad? Someone get sAviOr we need to get this information to him! I think you are crossing over bit too much. Did Naniwa bet any money and gained something from it ? Prove it then use this argument. Otherwise you are just making bad and rude accusations.
Did my post say that Naniwa match-fixed for personal profit at all?
If so point it out to me cause all I see is a sarcastic remark showing how stupid it is to say throwing a game is okay.
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Man I'm going to check DCinside now LOL
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On December 13 2011 23:10 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:08 Gooshnads wrote:
People rip on Nani without understanding the context of the situation.
Neither of them were going to advance, and I think Nani would rather just spend the time to think about everything that went wrong and practice, rather than draggin it on, playing a half-assed game. Naniwa agreed to the terms of the tournament. He knew that all the games were going to be played. If he can't even stick to the terms that he agreed to then Naniwa has some issues.
Well he did play his game. Unless playing got some different definition in yours vocabulary.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36900 Posts
That game was just........ no words can describe it :/
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On December 13 2011 23:06 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:55 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 22:52 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 22:49 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 22:36 KeksX wrote:
You deserve a temp ban for this imho, but I'm no mod.
Thats it. I'm leaving this thread. It's just so irrational and people won't look at this in any different way. Minds are set up. Good luck with your witch hunt, guys. I tried.
Hopefully this will be forgotten within the next few days, like everything else. You've been stubborn all the time and claimed his cheese was not any better than a 6pool or a proxy 2gate so maybe you should not be talking about others being stubborn, especially when Naniwa made it so obvious. As for forgetting about this, people still have not forgotten his BM past. He also embarrassed his new clan so I wouldn't count on this being forgotten anytime soon, it's probably going to have consequences for him. You can kinda pull this off if you have a good reputation and/or do this off-stage in a non-casted game but definitely not with Naniwa's reputation, in Korea, with it being live-casted in front of thousands of watchers, other players and casters. This will not be forgotten quickly for quite a few people. oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL. oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons. The key word being Seoul. I take it you don't have any idea how serious Koreans take Starcraft, do you? There's a saying that fits perfectly: When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Think about it. Well then maybe the koreans should think about the fact that NaNiwa is a foreigner and not acustomed to their culture etc. Have a little understanding maybe?
because koreans, hosting a korean tournament, in korea, needs to cater to the whims of an unprofessional and self-centered foreign player
furthermore hes lived in koreas for months in a team house. if he still doesnt get it the onus is on him. funny how all the other foreigners training over there gets along with koreans?
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I understand fans want to see a good game, but from Naniwa's perspective I totally understand. You have just lost 3 games, you are tired and upset at your performance. There is no way you are going to play at your top level or anywhere close to it. The match doesn't matter and is a waste of time and physical and mental energy, let's just go home and practice for the next event and try to make our fans happy when we win that, not some match that doesn't matter when I am on tilt.
At least that is what I see, sure he could have been a bit more graceful about it but I understand not wanting to play the game.
(proxy two gate would have been a much better option though ;p)
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On December 13 2011 23:12 Nadarath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:10 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 23:08 Gooshnads wrote:
People rip on Nani without understanding the context of the situation.
Neither of them were going to advance, and I think Nani would rather just spend the time to think about everything that went wrong and practice, rather than draggin it on, playing a half-assed game. Naniwa agreed to the terms of the tournament. He knew that all the games were going to be played. If he can't even stick to the terms that he agreed to then Naniwa has some issues. Well he did play his game. Unless playing got some different definition in yours vocabulary.
I used to think Idra and Huk fanboys were absurd, Nani's fanboys, however, are changing my opinion on "Dumb fanboys."
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On December 13 2011 23:08 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:05 hybridsc wrote:On December 13 2011 22:55 SnePe wrote:
The points I'm about to try to make is not about Naniwa, but about the way esports tournaments are structured.
If you have ever played tournaments yourself, invested most of your life into a game, have great expectations for you and your team and then when you get eliminated you know it feels horrible. At that point, it is not just a game you play, it is your life. When you lose and get eliminated you get depressed, you just don't want to play. You could argue that you should play for the spectators and the fans. If your favourite football team is eliminated you still expect them to play with honor and dignity in their last game even if it doesn't mean anything. I don't think that you can compare esports with other sports like football, for one reason:
They don't expect you to play 10 minutes after being eliminated. Any other sport have atleast a day before they have to play again.
You are at that point emotionally crushed, the dissapointment is almost impossible to describe. You need time to work it through. From my experience playing in various CS tournaments, if you give us an hour we'll be sort of OK, give us four and we'll be playing reasonably, give us a day and we will be pumped and ready to go and put on a good match. We need time to decompress, talk it through and be alone atleast for a while. Just because there isn't a huge physical strain which is the reason footballers gets days off between games, there still is a mental strain on the players which is never taken into consideration. All your hopes and expectations just died, it is not a great feeling.
Give us 10-20 minutes, our minds will not be in the game, there will be no passion, just utter dissapointment. You are not playing to win, you are just going through the motions and you just want to leave. I've said it countless times to people around me, but no one wants to listen. Tournaments needs to be longer with more time between each game or they just need skip playing pointless matches with teams that has been elminated all together (which is often the case).
Throwing the game is not good and you can NEVER defend that as it is just a pure waste of everyones time, but you can also never expect a good show or that the players are playing with passion unless they are given time to clear their heads. I don't understand why this is such a mystery for a lot of people and why they get so surprised when stuff like Naniwa - Nestea happens.
First legitimate point defending Naniwa. You're right actually. Thinking about it, Gomtv should have never made them play it out. Even the prize pool was the same regardless of whether you finished 4th of 5th. I don't see Korean players doing this, and I've seen several in this situation. Nestea sure wasn't going to. In fact I've seen Koreans fight to the last in matches 'that don't mean anything' because they'd rather have the fans remember then losing 1-3 than 0-4, and at least be able to walk away with their heads held high. I can respect that attitude. I can't respect Naniwa's. Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:06 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 22:55 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 22:52 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 22:49 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 22:36 KeksX wrote:
You deserve a temp ban for this imho, but I'm no mod.
Thats it. I'm leaving this thread. It's just so irrational and people won't look at this in any different way. Minds are set up. Good luck with your witch hunt, guys. I tried.
Hopefully this will be forgotten within the next few days, like everything else. You've been stubborn all the time and claimed his cheese was not any better than a 6pool or a proxy 2gate so maybe you should not be talking about others being stubborn, especially when Naniwa made it so obvious. As for forgetting about this, people still have not forgotten his BM past. He also embarrassed his new clan so I wouldn't count on this being forgotten anytime soon, it's probably going to have consequences for him. You can kinda pull this off if you have a good reputation and/or do this off-stage in a non-casted game but definitely not with Naniwa's reputation, in Korea, with it being live-casted in front of thousands of watchers, other players and casters. This will not be forgotten quickly for quite a few people. oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL. oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons. The key word being Seoul. I take it you don't have any idea how serious Koreans take Starcraft, do you? There's a saying that fits perfectly: When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Think about it. Well then maybe the koreans should think about the fact that NaNiwa is a foreigner and not acustomed to their culture etc. Have a little understanding maybe? He's been in 4 GSLs. If he's still so clueless about the gaming culture of the game he's a professional in after 4 months then the fault is entirely his. Especially since he's been in team houses with them.
Don't you think there's a huge difference of having lived in korea like a half year compared to a korean who has lived there all his life? I think he needs more time to actually soak in everything. It's not easy as a foreigner to come to another country and be expected to know everything about a countries customs and stuff @ only half a year.
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On December 13 2011 23:10 Mortal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:06 JohnMatrix wrote:On December 13 2011 23:03 Kiyo. wrote:Naniwa's tweets: @QuanticNaNi johan lucchesi
apparently people got upset when i probe rushed nestea, the game was pointless and it couldnt change anything in the tournament.
@QuanticNaNi johan lucchesi
i can understand if fans got upset but neither of us had anything on stake and wouldnt play our best. i am sry if people expected more tho
"coL"Naniwa ? its not him LOL where does it say "coL"? Naniwa's twitter is Quantic.
http://twitter.com/#!/coLNaniwa
guy edited dont know why
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On December 13 2011 23:12 Nadarath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:10 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 23:08 Gooshnads wrote:
People rip on Nani without understanding the context of the situation.
Neither of them were going to advance, and I think Nani would rather just spend the time to think about everything that went wrong and practice, rather than draggin it on, playing a half-assed game. Naniwa agreed to the terms of the tournament. He knew that all the games were going to be played. If he can't even stick to the terms that he agreed to then Naniwa has some issues. Well he did play his game. Unless playing got some different definition in yours vocabulary.
He loaded a game up. I think saying that he played it is a bit of a stretch.
He drag clicked, pressed a, and clicked somewhere else.
That's two keypresses less than just typing gg and quitting out.
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On December 13 2011 23:15 JohnMatrix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:10 Mortal wrote:On December 13 2011 23:06 JohnMatrix wrote:On December 13 2011 23:03 Kiyo. wrote:Naniwa's tweets: @QuanticNaNi johan lucchesi
apparently people got upset when i probe rushed nestea, the game was pointless and it couldnt change anything in the tournament.
@QuanticNaNi johan lucchesi
i can understand if fans got upset but neither of us had anything on stake and wouldnt play our best. i am sry if people expected more tho
"coL"Naniwa ? its not him LOL where does it say "coL"? Naniwa's twitter is Quantic. http://twitter.com/#!/coLNaniwaguy edited dont know why
IT IS NOT NANIWA TWITTER!
it is just some imposer
official Naniwa twitter
http://twitter.com/#!/QuanticNaNi
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On December 13 2011 23:13 synaptik wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:06 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 22:55 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 22:52 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 22:49 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 22:36 KeksX wrote:
You deserve a temp ban for this imho, but I'm no mod.
Thats it. I'm leaving this thread. It's just so irrational and people won't look at this in any different way. Minds are set up. Good luck with your witch hunt, guys. I tried.
Hopefully this will be forgotten within the next few days, like everything else. You've been stubborn all the time and claimed his cheese was not any better than a 6pool or a proxy 2gate so maybe you should not be talking about others being stubborn, especially when Naniwa made it so obvious. As for forgetting about this, people still have not forgotten his BM past. He also embarrassed his new clan so I wouldn't count on this being forgotten anytime soon, it's probably going to have consequences for him. You can kinda pull this off if you have a good reputation and/or do this off-stage in a non-casted game but definitely not with Naniwa's reputation, in Korea, with it being live-casted in front of thousands of watchers, other players and casters. This will not be forgotten quickly for quite a few people. oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL. oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons. The key word being Seoul. I take it you don't have any idea how serious Koreans take Starcraft, do you? There's a saying that fits perfectly: When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Think about it. Well then maybe the koreans should think about the fact that NaNiwa is a foreigner and not acustomed to their culture etc. Have a little understanding maybe? because koreans, hosting a korean tournament, in korea, needs to cater to the whims of an unprofessional and self-centered foreign player furthermore hes lived in koreas for months in a team house. if he still doesnt get it the onus is on him. funny how all the other foreigners training over there gets along with koreans?
Who said naniwa doesn't get a long with koreans? From what ive heard he really loves it in the StarTale house. Obviously didn't work out well in the MVP house but that's another story we don't know the facts of.
He calls nestea an idiot and he pulls his probes against him. That was all against NESTEA. Does that make him an enemy of the state to korea and all koreans?
It's not naniwa taking this to far. It's all the people behind their screens taking this way to far than it really needed to go. Im tired of this shit. It's pointless to argue with people who have nothing but hate in their minds. Cya!
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On December 13 2011 23:15 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:12 Nadarath wrote:On December 13 2011 23:10 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 23:08 Gooshnads wrote:
People rip on Nani without understanding the context of the situation.
Neither of them were going to advance, and I think Nani would rather just spend the time to think about everything that went wrong and practice, rather than draggin it on, playing a half-assed game. Naniwa agreed to the terms of the tournament. He knew that all the games were going to be played. If he can't even stick to the terms that he agreed to then Naniwa has some issues. Well he did play his game. Unless playing got some different definition in yours vocabulary. He loaded a game up. I think saying that he played it is a bit of a stretch. He drag clicked, pressed a, and clicked somewhere else. That's two keypresses less than just typing gg and quitting out.
Still - that's how you play this game slight difference from loading a game and doing nothing. I'm not saying he tried to do his best. Or that his game playing was great but he did show up for match and played it.
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The problem isnt that Naniwa wasnt invested in a game that meant nothing, its the fact that his actions where so unprofessional that he shamed himself, his team, their sponsors and shat all over GOM.
Did naniwa do anything wrong? Yes, not in terms of rules and regulations but by shitting all over everything that should be IMPORTANT you know like honour/respect/pride
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On December 13 2011 23:14 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:08 iamthedave wrote:On December 13 2011 23:05 hybridsc wrote:On December 13 2011 22:55 SnePe wrote:
The points I'm about to try to make is not about Naniwa, but about the way esports tournaments are structured.
If you have ever played tournaments yourself, invested most of your life into a game, have great expectations for you and your team and then when you get eliminated you know it feels horrible. At that point, it is not just a game you play, it is your life. When you lose and get eliminated you get depressed, you just don't want to play. You could argue that you should play for the spectators and the fans. If your favourite football team is eliminated you still expect them to play with honor and dignity in their last game even if it doesn't mean anything. I don't think that you can compare esports with other sports like football, for one reason:
They don't expect you to play 10 minutes after being eliminated. Any other sport have atleast a day before they have to play again.
You are at that point emotionally crushed, the dissapointment is almost impossible to describe. You need time to work it through. From my experience playing in various CS tournaments, if you give us an hour we'll be sort of OK, give us four and we'll be playing reasonably, give us a day and we will be pumped and ready to go and put on a good match. We need time to decompress, talk it through and be alone atleast for a while. Just because there isn't a huge physical strain which is the reason footballers gets days off between games, there still is a mental strain on the players which is never taken into consideration. All your hopes and expectations just died, it is not a great feeling.
Give us 10-20 minutes, our minds will not be in the game, there will be no passion, just utter dissapointment. You are not playing to win, you are just going through the motions and you just want to leave. I've said it countless times to people around me, but no one wants to listen. Tournaments needs to be longer with more time between each game or they just need skip playing pointless matches with teams that has been elminated all together (which is often the case).
Throwing the game is not good and you can NEVER defend that as it is just a pure waste of everyones time, but you can also never expect a good show or that the players are playing with passion unless they are given time to clear their heads. I don't understand why this is such a mystery for a lot of people and why they get so surprised when stuff like Naniwa - Nestea happens.
First legitimate point defending Naniwa. You're right actually. Thinking about it, Gomtv should have never made them play it out. Even the prize pool was the same regardless of whether you finished 4th of 5th. I don't see Korean players doing this, and I've seen several in this situation. Nestea sure wasn't going to. In fact I've seen Koreans fight to the last in matches 'that don't mean anything' because they'd rather have the fans remember then losing 1-3 than 0-4, and at least be able to walk away with their heads held high. I can respect that attitude. I can't respect Naniwa's. On December 13 2011 23:06 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 22:55 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 22:52 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 22:49 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 22:36 KeksX wrote:
You deserve a temp ban for this imho, but I'm no mod.
Thats it. I'm leaving this thread. It's just so irrational and people won't look at this in any different way. Minds are set up. Good luck with your witch hunt, guys. I tried.
Hopefully this will be forgotten within the next few days, like everything else. You've been stubborn all the time and claimed his cheese was not any better than a 6pool or a proxy 2gate so maybe you should not be talking about others being stubborn, especially when Naniwa made it so obvious. As for forgetting about this, people still have not forgotten his BM past. He also embarrassed his new clan so I wouldn't count on this being forgotten anytime soon, it's probably going to have consequences for him. You can kinda pull this off if you have a good reputation and/or do this off-stage in a non-casted game but definitely not with Naniwa's reputation, in Korea, with it being live-casted in front of thousands of watchers, other players and casters. This will not be forgotten quickly for quite a few people. oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL. oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons. The key word being Seoul. I take it you don't have any idea how serious Koreans take Starcraft, do you? There's a saying that fits perfectly: When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Think about it. Well then maybe the koreans should think about the fact that NaNiwa is a foreigner and not acustomed to their culture etc. Have a little understanding maybe? He's been in 4 GSLs. If he's still so clueless about the gaming culture of the game he's a professional in after 4 months then the fault is entirely his. Especially since he's been in team houses with them. Don't you think there's a huge difference of having lived in korea like a half year compared to a korean who has lived there all his life? I think he needs more time to actually soak in everything. It's not easy as a foreigner to come to another country and be expected to know everything about a countries customs and stuff @ only half a year.
you dont need to soak in anything, to have respect for your profession
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This whole situation is mind boggling, no not naniwa having a bit of fun, the fact that random netizens want to slam him because some korean players slammed him. o.O
So let me get this straight, we can't give Jessica shit, but people can give Naniwa shit freely? He had lost. He could have played the best game of his life, and Nestea the same, and in the end both of them still wouldn't have advanced. Sure, if I were Naniwa I would have probably played the game - I mean, it's against Nestea... of course I would - but he must know something we don't, you know.. how he's making it as a pro-gamer and we're not.
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Ok, now imagine that you are a tournament organizer that wants to hold an invitational torunament, such as Dreamhack. You have 8 spots, and you plan on doing 3/4th place matches just for the laughs/some money...guess who you are NOT going to invite?
and thinking i was so close to buy a ticket for this just to see that kind of thing happening, I would probably be more mad if that had been the case.
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I can't respect a player who just gives up, even when no advancement or prize money is on the line.
You know what my thrown-together volleyball teams record was this past season? 1-32. We won ONE game out of the 33 games we played (11 matches, three games per match.. the one game was against one of the bad teams, too). We showed up most weeks and had to play against kids fresh out of college who had played Division II/III volleyball. Every time we lost the first two games (thus losing the match) did we just stand there and let them serve it out? When we couldn't possibly make the playoffs anymore, did we just not show up to games? No, we showed up and played hard.
It doesn't even have to be a "traditional" sport. When I played CS and Quake competitively, you never saw players just throw games like this... especially not at a high level. When you get spawn killed a bunch of times in a row in Quake and you're all of a sudden down 10-0... do you just AFK or quit the game? No, you try to not get shut out. I remember one CS match we lost the first half like 12-3 or 11-4. We were devastated because we felt like that was our stronger side. But we collected ourselves in the FAR LESS THAN 10 minutes we got, and ended up coming back to tie it and win it in overtime. Did the match matter? Were we going to the playoffs? No. We just didn't want to be remembered as quitters.
I have so much respect for NesTea if that tweet is true. Such dedication to the game and to his career, only to have NaNiWa say "eh, I don't feel like playing right now".
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EPT
