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United States33310 Posts
@IM_NesTea_: I was infuriated about my mindless play, but when I collected myself I found my opponent doing something even more out of his mind.
@oGsMC: I was really lost for words after watching today's game. Does he even know what the word "pro" is? My role model for professionalism is White-Ra. He really loves his fans, and doesn't give up his games until the end, and he's very mannered towards everyone. Does anyone dislike White-Ra?
I hope Naniwa can look at White-Ra and change his mentality. I don't think it's right to do that, not considering your opponent at all. I wish he'd think about how he would have felt if I had gone 3-0 and confirmed #1 in my group, and he was 0-3, and I thought that since I'm 1st place nothing matters and just GG'd out of my game against him.
Well, if you there's no big deal because there's no money on the the line, then I can't say anything to that, you're just not a pro. After seeing Naniwa, I thought HerO was all the more awesome for being so upset about losing his games yesterday.
@FXOChoya: [Can't believe] that kind of bastard is a pro-gamer.
LOLOLOL all I can I do is laugh
@hirai21(IM Head coach): The heck, again?
@sc2immvp: WTF -_- (in English)
@SC2MVP (Team MVP official twitter): What a relief that Complexity transferred Naniwa to Quantic. We almost had to have that kind of player stay in our house for longer. The most disappointing game as an SC2 fan.
What's the most angering is that Nestea practiced hard into the night to practice yesterday, even though it was his birthday.
@TSLJYP: LOLOLOLOLOL x 140 characters
@MVPKeeN: LOLOLOLOLOLOL x Slightly fewer characters
@MVPGuineapig: There's so many people who can't compete in leagues even if they want to.. are you mocking them?
@MKPS2: I wonder what all the gamers who wanted to be in that position thought... I really wanted it too...
Updating if there's anything interesting :o.
Post on /r/starcraft for free Karma :D
 
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I'm not mad, just kinda disappointed. I understand why naniwa did what he did, but it's a bit embarassing... 
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'Respect' has a very different meaning in Naniwa's dictionary.
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Those guys are really making this way too personal...
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On December 13 2011 21:33 Tppz! wrote:
What happened?
+ Show Spoiler +Naniwa and Nestea are both 0-3, and have yet to play. With their score, they are both out of the blizzard cup tournament. Naniwa decides to attack with his 6 probes at the start of the game lol.
I personally don't care, but I can see the problem. Just a bad decision though imo, not that bad.
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Naniwa is Naniwa. People just need to deal with it ^^
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I'm glad koreans don't find it funny. Because it isn't.
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Thanks for doing this. I was really curious if anything was gonna come up about throwing games, which I know the Koreans are super defensive about.
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I'm disappointed naniwa didnt at least proxy 2gate or 4gate :/
but yeah as naniwa once said "...gonna practice twice as hard for everything in the future and not give a shit about anything else"
he plays to win and cant blame him for that, hes a great player and always delivers entertaining games
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Man sc2 fans will get mad at anything. sc2 players too it appears.
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Choya isn't really the one to call other's bastards for bad behaivour imho
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On December 13 2011 21:33 Tppz! wrote:
What happened?
+ Show Spoiler +Blizzard Cup...Nani was to play Nestea in a match that didn't matter at all. Decided to probe rush and then the game in less than 2 minutes.
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Damn, douchebag comments.
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AHAHAHA "What's the most angering is that Nestea practiced hard into the night to practice yesterday, even though it was his birthday."
This is the best thing I've ever read. Naniwa, I salute you
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On December 13 2011 21:35 KeksX wrote:
Choya isn't really the one to call other's bastards for bad behaivour imho
Yeah, what is his deal with NaNiwa? Sounding way too harsh.
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It was a bit disrespectful definitely but I think the koreans are being a bit harsh, the match didn't mean anything and NaNiwa was clearly frustrated from his two losses, he should've still played the game out but you can understand why he didn't.
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He doesnt deserve to be where he is at all.
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GOM should take away his Code S seed for next season as a response to this travesty, players should be held to at least some standard and Naniwa falls well below that
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On December 13 2011 21:34 NEgroidZerg wrote:
Man sc2 fans will get mad at anything. sc2 players too it appears.
Korean players seem to always want to show good games to their fans. Naniwa just shit all over that, so it's not surprising that the Koreans are unhappy about it.
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That was a dick move by him and he deserves to lose a lot of respect and fans from doing that. My heart goes out to Nestea for that though, knowing he practiced his heart out to get his revenge on Naniwa from MLG. If the community condones this move by Naniwa then I have 0 faith in eSports ever becoming a mainstream sport ANY time soon.
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I'm not mad at all. Are you guys really disappointed...? The break was short and we near instantly had more matches that came, good matches... I thought it was funny. Naniwa got cheesed out and didn't want to play a match that didn't matter whatsoever. Sure, I wanted to see games but what you would be seeing if you did play is naniwa on Tilt from losing the previous matches.
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On December 13 2011 21:37 coloursheep wrote:
GOM should take away his Code S seed for next season as a response to this travesty, players should be held to at least some standard and Naniwa falls well below that
Please explain to me logically how GOM would justify taking away his tournament spot in another tournament for doing a stupid strategy in a game that had no bearing on anything?
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The fact that people are trying to rationalize it as being acceptable just shows how much further SC2 still needs to go....
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United Kingdom38198 Posts
Good stuff lol!
Is there anything amusing on playXP wax?
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I have no idea what Naniwa did, but I also know that koreans tend to be babies about everything so Im not too suprised to get this reaction from them from anything. Thats the main reason why I dont like Korean players.
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The word professional is supposed to have a meaning deeper than just making money -_- it was really disrespectful. I mean, the match didn't mean anything for the tournament but it meant a lot anyway, especially since it was Nestea.
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
Dudes, there's no rule at GOM against worker rushing. He did a valid cheese and it failed.
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@FXOChoya: [Can't believe] that kind of bastard is a pro-gamer.
LOLOLOL I can I do is laugh
@SC2MVP (Team MVP official twitter): What a relief that Complexity transferred Naniwa to Quantic. We almost had to have that kind of player stay in our house for longer. The most disappointing game as an SC2 fan.
What's the most angering is that Nestea practiced hard into the night to practice yesterday, even though it was his birthday.
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On December 13 2011 21:37 Ventor wrote:
If the community condones this move by Naniwa then I have 0 faith in eSports ever becoming a mainstream sport ANY time soon.
Jesus. This again. That is a complete and utter overreaction.
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You don't enter korea and act like that. Its very much anti korean mentality. You are gonna piss a bunch of people off doing that.
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On December 13 2011 21:33 Vequeth wrote:
'Respect' has a very different meaning in Naniwa's dictionary.
In the same way that "impossible" had a very different meaning in Napoleon's dictionary, right?
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On December 13 2011 21:37 SenorChang wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:37 coloursheep wrote:
GOM should take away his Code S seed for next season as a response to this travesty, players should be held to at least some standard and Naniwa falls well below that Please explain to me logically how GOM would justify taking away his tournament spot in another tournament for doing a stupid strategy in a game that had no bearing on anything?
Throwing games is legal now
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On December 13 2011 21:35 KeksX wrote:
Choya isn't really the one to call other's bastards for bad behaivour imho
...what did choya ever do? rock paper scissors PvP on the ladder? That doesn't put him anywhere close to Naniwa. Everyone who has interacted with him says he's super nice and helpful.
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Choya of all people laughing at somebody like Naniwa for being a progamer is particularly amusing.
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Are you not entertained?! no....
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On December 13 2011 21:39 zaii wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:37 SenorChang wrote:On December 13 2011 21:37 coloursheep wrote:
GOM should take away his Code S seed for next season as a response to this travesty, players should be held to at least some standard and Naniwa falls well below that Please explain to me logically how GOM would justify taking away his tournament spot in another tournament for doing a stupid strategy in a game that had no bearing on anything? Throwing games is legal now
There's no rule about worker rushing. So he didn't throw the game he tried something and it failed.
Sure it's somewhat of a statement, but it's well within the rules.
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I don't know what to think of the official team mvp twitter tweet...sounds really personal and just makes THEM look bad imho=/.
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Does anyone remember the "butthurt" thing? Laughing so hard right now, missed the game unfortunately.
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This is the first time I have actually felt like the Korean community don't deserve any respect at all.
If it was a Korean losing three times to cheese there would be the same comments but more along the lines of:
LOLOLOL STUPID FOREIGNERS CAN'T BEAT US IN REAL GAMES
They talk about professionalism while showing none themselves on this issue.
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On December 13 2011 21:37 Ventor wrote:
That was a dick move by him and he deserves to lose a lot of respect and fans from doing that. My heart goes out to Nestea for that though, knowing he practiced his heart out to get his revenge on Naniwa from MLG. If the community condones this move by Naniwa then I have 0 faith in eSports ever becoming a mainstream sport ANY time soon.
lol. you mad bro?
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On December 13 2011 21:38 snafoo wrote:
The fact that people are trying to rationalize it as being acceptable just shows how much further SC2 still needs to go....
Kind of mean of Gomtv to have players play right after you're knocked out of a tournament.
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On December 13 2011 21:39 zaii wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:37 SenorChang wrote:On December 13 2011 21:37 coloursheep wrote:
GOM should take away his Code S seed for next season as a response to this travesty, players should be held to at least some standard and Naniwa falls well below that Please explain to me logically how GOM would justify taking away his tournament spot in another tournament for doing a stupid strategy in a game that had no bearing on anything? Throwing games is legal now
Still has no relevance on any sort of results. No affects on seedings, tournament standings, prize money.
Nothing would be justified about removing his Code S spot
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On December 13 2011 21:39 FXOpen wrote:
You don't enter korea and act like that. Its very much anti korean mentality. You are gonna piss a bunch of people off doing that.
I usually don't agree with things you say but I have to side with you on this. When you go to a foreign country, learn their customs and do not disrespect them, since you are a guest in their country and community. Poor quantic is going to cop a lot of bad publicity from this, won't be surprised if Naniwa is kicked from the team because of this.
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On December 13 2011 21:40 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:39 zaii wrote:On December 13 2011 21:37 SenorChang wrote:On December 13 2011 21:37 coloursheep wrote:
GOM should take away his Code S seed for next season as a response to this travesty, players should be held to at least some standard and Naniwa falls well below that Please explain to me logically how GOM would justify taking away his tournament spot in another tournament for doing a stupid strategy in a game that had no bearing on anything? Throwing games is legal now There's no rule about worker rushing. So he didn't throw the game he tried something and it failed. Sure it's somewhat of a statement, but it's well within the rules.
yes sending all his probes and didn't bother to micro
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Why would you expect a game between them be epic when they were both 0-3'd. Meaningless match :E
GO NANIWA!
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Sorry, but naniwa is a god damn moron. Not just for this, but the fact that he did it after he comes off just less than a month of like 5 controversial things. It's so fucking stupid to put yourself into a position like this and have any more shit on your record. I can't believe people are still defending him when he has a long, long history of this kind of stuff and this wasn't just a "1 time" or even "few time" thing. He really needs to learn to control himself and just suck it up for the same of his career.
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REALLY? I mean really?
whats the point in being so mad at this?
the game meant nothing both players were out, I beat if Nestea 6pooled they'd love him for it..
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United States97276 Posts
wow mvp's (team) twitter pretty harsh/hilarious
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United Kingdom41 Posts
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Reminder that sports is showbiz. Naniwa is a professional entertainer. That guy that keeps getting 10k+ viewers the second he puts his stream up, what's he known for again? The next time Naniwa and Nestea are scheduled to play, do you think people will turn off the stream because of all the "disrespect"? 
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I think it's a tad bit hypocritical of Choya since he is one of very few who have actually been banned from GSL in the past for cheating the system
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
Korean's fucking Nani, not that I'm surprised. I kinda like him, but it's getting frustrating his immaturity T-T
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"It was a bit disrespectful definitely but I think the koreans are being a bit harsh, the match didn't mean anything and NaNiwa was clearly frustrated from his two losses, he should've still played the game out but you can understand why he didn't."
I think he deserves the comments he got from the koreans. Respect to the koreans who actaully voice out their opinons like that.
Have you ever seen a professional sport team/player/anyone do something like that even in situations in which the match didn't matter? No! Why? Because they have something to say to the fans:"Even thou we lost, we tried our best for you!"/ "I tried!" / "I can actaully play well so support me" / etc.. What he just said right now is :"I only care about winning some money. Why should I struggle to show a good game when I can't get the money? The fans? LOLOLLOLOLOLOL!"
I hope naniwa will never be invited to any other tournament ever and he will get the shit storm he so rightfully deserves for doing things the way he does.
"@MVPGuineapig: There's so many people who can't compete in leagues even if they want to.. are you mocking them?"
Ouch...this actually hurt my soul a bit...so true and so sad.
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The game having to be played was retarded, I dont blame nani in the slightest for wanting to skip this ridiculous and pointless game. Also fuck off with all your professionalism bullshit I'm fucking tired of it, some people just wanna do what they do they arent obsessed with the whole LETS MAKE ESPORTS (lol esports) mainstream bullshit.
User was temp banned for this post.
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United Kingdom38198 Posts
On December 13 2011 21:40 TheHova wrote:
Choya of all people laughing at somebody like Naniwa for being a progamer is particularly amusing.
Why? Choya is awesome despite being primarily a coach.
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On December 13 2011 21:41 zaii wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:40 Qikz wrote:On December 13 2011 21:39 zaii wrote:On December 13 2011 21:37 SenorChang wrote:On December 13 2011 21:37 coloursheep wrote:
GOM should take away his Code S seed for next season as a response to this travesty, players should be held to at least some standard and Naniwa falls well below that Please explain to me logically how GOM would justify taking away his tournament spot in another tournament for doing a stupid strategy in a game that had no bearing on anything? Throwing games is legal now There's no rule about worker rushing. So he didn't throw the game he tried something and it failed. Sure it's somewhat of a statement, but it's well within the rules. yes sending all his probes and didn't bother to micro
They shouldn't have made him play the game. Worker rushing is still in rules. He lost by losing all his workers.
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On December 13 2011 21:36 FinestHour wrote:
He doesnt deserve to be where he is at all.
Expect for the fact he does because hes better than everyone else who isnt where he is
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On December 13 2011 21:37 SenorChang wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:37 coloursheep wrote:
GOM should take away his Code S seed for next season as a response to this travesty, players should be held to at least some standard and Naniwa falls well below that Please explain to me logically how GOM would justify taking away his tournament spot in another tournament for doing a stupid strategy in a game that had no bearing on anything?
To send a message to players that playing in the most prestigious tournament in the world is a privilege and players must respect that, Naniwa was given a seed by them into not one but two tournaments and how does he repay them? By essentially throwing a match, the most hyped match of the night. It does not matter that it was a dead rubber his actions in that game should not be promoted they should be punished. GOM has removed players from their tournaments before for bad behavior and they should do it again in this case.
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On December 13 2011 21:37 coloursheep wrote:
GOM should take away his Code S seed for next season as a response to this travesty, players should be held to at least some standard and Naniwa falls well below that
So should MMA in the game vs Naniwa,
Proxy Thor, how disrespectful to the game.
What a shame these cheeses.
It's a (bad) strat so if anything, he can be hated bnyt people, but not organisations
If anything, they should've asked if the players wnated to skip the game since it wouldn't mean anything anyway
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On December 13 2011 21:41 Ventor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:39 FXOpen wrote:
You don't enter korea and act like that. Its very much anti korean mentality. You are gonna piss a bunch of people off doing that. I usually don't agree with things you say but I have to side with you on this. When you go to a foreign country, learn their customs and do not disrespect them, since you are a guest in their country and community. Poor quantic is going to cop a lot of bad publicity from this, won't be surprised if Naniwa is kicked from the team because of this.
So I guess that matchfixing by byun and coca at the ESV Korean Weekly was okay and not against the korean mentality? Because I'm telling you, people were a lot less upset about this.
And Naniwa broke NO rule at all while those 2 guys basically opened the box of pandora
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On December 13 2011 21:39 FXOpen wrote:
You don't enter korea and act like that. Its very much anti korean mentality. You are gonna piss a bunch of people off doing that.
You should be criticising Naniwa less and controlling your players to not make ridiculous attacks on other players in public more.
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On December 13 2011 21:42 Asha` wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:40 TheHova wrote:
Choya of all people laughing at somebody like Naniwa for being a progamer is particularly amusing. Why? Choya is awesome despite being primarily a coach.
Because the reason he is a coach is because he played rock paper scissors for ladder points
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NaNiWa countinues his streak of causing drama all over the place.
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I wonder if Quantic is having buyer's remorse ? Lol.
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He sure knows how to make enemies... He's been in Korea for a relatively short period of time, and already several teams dislike the guy :p
People saying Naniwa has a good 'winner' attitude and stuff like that, but if he keeps on doing this he's not gonna get much more chances actually becoming one. What an idiotic move. Pfft
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On December 13 2011 21:42 coddan wrote:
I think it's a tad bit hypocritical of Choya since he is one of very few who have actually been banned from GSL in the past for cheating the system
Seriously... he was "banned" for a season (i think) because he played some games on ladder with rock paper scissors, it had nothing to do with gsl.
Naniwa is continuing to burn bridge.
You can't behave like this and expect anything from people. Maybe he should ask himself why people in the mvp house didn't want to play games with him?
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Disrespectful, yes. Out of bounds, no. It was a legit move after all.
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Not surprised. Naniwa might be one of the best foreigners, but he's still a punk kid.
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People need to get a sense of perspective and realize that there's things that matter more in the world. Sure, it's disappointing that we didn't get to watch a potentially great match, but forcing players to play a showmatch after they bombed a tournament that they practiced hard for... well things like this can happen.
Some of the things I've read are straight up sickening towards Naniwa. The ones who did need to leave the house and leave their internet bubble once in a while, and realize that there is bigger injustices out there than you not being able to watch a starcraft game.
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On December 13 2011 21:42 iggyfisk wrote:Reminder that sports is showbiz. Naniwa is a professional entertainer. That guy that keeps getting 10k+ viewers the second he puts his stream up, what's he known for again? The next time Naniwa and Nestea are scheduled to play, do you think people will turn off the stream because of all the "disrespect"?
Naniwa never got 10k viewers... Only players who gets these kind of viewers are Idra, Day9 and Stephano is on the right track to get the same
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Throwing the game = BM
Community reaction = completely ridiculous just as expected
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On December 13 2011 21:42 chokke wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:37 coloursheep wrote:
GOM should take away his Code S seed for next season as a response to this travesty, players should be held to at least some standard and Naniwa falls well below that So should MMA in the game vs Naniwa, Proxy Thor, how disrespectful to the game. What a shame these cheeses. It's a (bad) strat so if anything, he can be hated bnyt people, but not organisations If anything, they should've asked if the players wnated to skip the game since it wouldn't mean anything anyway
Aimed at an apple, shot the moon. 100% logical disconnect.
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LOL why everyone cares about that match...srsly why even cast game betwen two players who are allready out.....jeeez
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On December 13 2011 21:42 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:41 zaii wrote:On December 13 2011 21:40 Qikz wrote:On December 13 2011 21:39 zaii wrote:On December 13 2011 21:37 SenorChang wrote:On December 13 2011 21:37 coloursheep wrote:
GOM should take away his Code S seed for next season as a response to this travesty, players should be held to at least some standard and Naniwa falls well below that Please explain to me logically how GOM would justify taking away his tournament spot in another tournament for doing a stupid strategy in a game that had no bearing on anything? Throwing games is legal now There's no rule about worker rushing. So he didn't throw the game he tried something and it failed. Sure it's somewhat of a statement, but it's well within the rules. yes sending all his probes and didn't bother to micro They shouldn't have made him play the game. Worker rushing is still in rules. He lost by losing all his workers.
he is the person who agreed to play in the tournament. he is not forced to play in the blizzard cup. he knew or he should've known that he would have to play all the games.
it's on him in every way. he agreed to it and what he did is despicable because it's blatantly throwing a game.
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On December 13 2011 21:43 Jetaap wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:42 coddan wrote:
I think it's a tad bit hypocritical of Choya since he is one of very few who have actually been banned from GSL in the past for cheating the system Seriously... he was "banned" for a season (i think) because he played some games on ladder with rock paper scissors, it had nothing to do with gsl.
-_- Good that you know that you need(ed) a certain amount of ladderpoints to get into qualifiers and Choya wanted to get points faster
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Australia18228 Posts
I wonder what the repercussions would've been if Naniwa just walked out the studio and denied the final game rather than throwing it away on live air.
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Naniwa VS Korea just got way more interesting. Get em Nani!!!!!!
While I would've like to have seen them play (obviously) I can understand nani's decision to not want to play his big rematch against Nestea with such a low level of confidence and just being overall pissed about being out of the tourney 0-3.
Koreans are just flaming cause they cant handle having a "white dude" crush their starcraft2 god's MVP and Nestea TWICE at MLG and now they won't get their chance for revenge against naniwa. At least until next time. Cry more Korea.
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Waxangel for president for the translations! Thanks lots, they are pretty hilarious 
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Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt.
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United Kingdom38198 Posts
On December 13 2011 21:43 decerto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:42 Asha` wrote:On December 13 2011 21:40 TheHova wrote:
Choya of all people laughing at somebody like Naniwa for being a progamer is particularly amusing. Why? Choya is awesome despite being primarily a coach. Because the reason he is a coach is because he played rock paper scissors for ladder points
That's not the reason Choya took over coaching duties lol.
For the record playing RPS on ladder (of all places) got him banned for 1 week long GSTL.
On December 13 2011 21:45 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:43 Jetaap wrote:On December 13 2011 21:42 coddan wrote:
I think it's a tad bit hypocritical of Choya since he is one of very few who have actually been banned from GSL in the past for cheating the system Seriously... he was "banned" for a season (i think) because he played some games on ladder with rock paper scissors, it had nothing to do with gsl. -_- Good that you know that you need(ed) a certain amount of ladderpoints to get into qualifiers and Choya wanted to get points faster
Every pro and most semi-pros have always had enough ladder points to enter the qualifiers.
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On December 13 2011 21:44 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:42 Qikz wrote:On December 13 2011 21:41 zaii wrote:On December 13 2011 21:40 Qikz wrote:On December 13 2011 21:39 zaii wrote:On December 13 2011 21:37 SenorChang wrote:On December 13 2011 21:37 coloursheep wrote:
GOM should take away his Code S seed for next season as a response to this travesty, players should be held to at least some standard and Naniwa falls well below that Please explain to me logically how GOM would justify taking away his tournament spot in another tournament for doing a stupid strategy in a game that had no bearing on anything? Throwing games is legal now There's no rule about worker rushing. So he didn't throw the game he tried something and it failed. Sure it's somewhat of a statement, but it's well within the rules. yes sending all his probes and didn't bother to micro They shouldn't have made him play the game. Worker rushing is still in rules. He lost by losing all his workers. he is the person who agreed to play in the tournament. he is not forced to play in the blizzard cup. he knew or he should've known that he would have to play all the games. it's on him in every way. he agreed to it and what he did is despicable because it's blatantly throwing a game.
He cheesed and it failed. You can say that's throwing the game but it's in the rules.
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On December 13 2011 21:40 ComusLoM wrote:
This is the first time I have actually felt like the Korean community don't deserve any respect at all.
If it was a Korean losing three times to cheese there would be the same comments but more along the lines of:
LOLOLOL STUPID FOREIGNERS CAN'T BEAT US IN REAL GAMES
They talk about professionalism while showing none themselves on this issue.
who lost three times to cheese?
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ahahahahah, complexity must be dying right now. All they had to do after they released him was let him do his own thing for a few days.
Feel bad for quantic tho, kind of a bummer (except with the "pride" tweet preceding the game"), hope it all ends well.
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wow i didnt think anyone would care lol
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On December 13 2011 21:44 SaoPaulo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:42 iggyfisk wrote:Reminder that sports is showbiz. Naniwa is a professional entertainer. That guy that keeps getting 10k+ viewers the second he puts his stream up, what's he known for again? The next time Naniwa and Nestea are scheduled to play, do you think people will turn off the stream because of all the "disrespect"? Naniwa never got 10k viewers... Only players who gets these kind of viewers are Idra, Day9 and Stephano is on the right track to get the same
Idra you say... now you're almost done understanding my post
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thanks for this! no wonder MVP players wouldn't practice with Naniwa!
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I said it once and I'll say it again.
Match should not have been played.
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On December 13 2011 21:37 SenorChang wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:37 coloursheep wrote:
GOM should take away his Code S seed for next season as a response to this travesty, players should be held to at least some standard and Naniwa falls well below that Please explain to me logically how GOM would justify taking away his tournament spot in another tournament for doing a stupid strategy in a game that had no bearing on anything?
Slayers Coca says, "Trap Card!"
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ppl shud just chill and stop taking this way too seriously and laugh a little and then go on.
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On December 13 2011 21:30 Waxangel wrote:
@SC2MVP (Team MVP official twitter): What a relief that Complexity transferred Naniwa to Quantic. We almost had to have that kind of player stay in our house for longer. The most disappointing game as an SC2 fan.
What's the most angering is that Nestea practiced hard into the night to practice yesterday, even though it was his birthday.
very professional
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calm down E-sport warriors
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never cared about him, wont cry if they ban him
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What's the most angering is that Nestea practiced hard into the night to practice yesterday, even though it was his birthday.
So u guys mean to tell me he did all that just to play Naniwa? or he did it to actually win and go forth in the competition? The fact he didn't win any game makes that line 0. What naniwa did i find it somewere in the middle..the match didn't count....both were out...even with nestea's training he didn't win any match besides the last probe rush one. What if he lost in a normal game vs naniwa? would he still be so bad mannered because he won vs someone who trained on his birthday?
Seriously...this is just hilarious.
Instead of considering it bad manner..consider it a birthday gift for nestea..so he doesn't go out 0-4 after training all night on his birthday yet loosing all games..did u think of it like that?
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I get it that that it was meaningless for him at least he could have given a good game and make his statement elsewhere.
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On December 13 2011 21:43 Jetaap wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:42 coddan wrote:
I think it's a tad bit hypocritical of Choya since he is one of very few who have actually been banned from GSL in the past for cheating the system Seriously... he was "banned" for a season (i think) because he played some games on ladder with rock paper scissors, it had nothing to do with gsl.
You used to need X amount of ladder points to get to qualify for GSL, and Choya had figured out it was more beneficial to mass games than to actually win a higher percentage of games while playing fewer. He was cheating the system.
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On December 13 2011 21:44 GG2EZ wrote:
LOL why everyone cares about that match...srsly why even cast game betwen two players who are allready out.....jeeez
Might come across as a bit of a surprise to you, but some people actually like watching games
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On December 13 2011 21:44 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:42 Qikz wrote:On December 13 2011 21:41 zaii wrote:On December 13 2011 21:40 Qikz wrote:On December 13 2011 21:39 zaii wrote:On December 13 2011 21:37 SenorChang wrote:On December 13 2011 21:37 coloursheep wrote:
GOM should take away his Code S seed for next season as a response to this travesty, players should be held to at least some standard and Naniwa falls well below that Please explain to me logically how GOM would justify taking away his tournament spot in another tournament for doing a stupid strategy in a game that had no bearing on anything? Throwing games is legal now There's no rule about worker rushing. So he didn't throw the game he tried something and it failed. Sure it's somewhat of a statement, but it's well within the rules. yes sending all his probes and didn't bother to micro They shouldn't have made him play the game. Worker rushing is still in rules. He lost by losing all his workers. he is the person who agreed to play in the tournament. he is not forced to play in the blizzard cup. he knew or he should've known that he would have to play all the games. it's on him in every way. he agreed to it and what he did is despicable because it's blatantly throwing a game.
He probably knew he had to play it, that doesn't make it any less stupid. He's angry at himself for losing the 3 previous games that were finished 15 min ago, he hasn't cooled down yet and is forced to play a game that doesn't matter. He's obviously not going to try his best.
Naniwa is obviously an emotional person, you don't make good decisions when you're angry.
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gj on Naniwa's part, pissing off the whole korean scene it seems ...
let's see how long he will actually stay in the StarTale house before something comes up.
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On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt.
I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually.
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On December 13 2011 21:45 FreudianTrip wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:37 SenorChang wrote:On December 13 2011 21:37 coloursheep wrote:
GOM should take away his Code S seed for next season as a response to this travesty, players should be held to at least some standard and Naniwa falls well below that Please explain to me logically how GOM would justify taking away his tournament spot in another tournament for doing a stupid strategy in a game that had no bearing on anything? Slayers Coca says, "Trap Card!"
Well played :D
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On December 13 2011 21:45 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:44 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 21:42 Qikz wrote:On December 13 2011 21:41 zaii wrote:On December 13 2011 21:40 Qikz wrote:On December 13 2011 21:39 zaii wrote:On December 13 2011 21:37 SenorChang wrote:On December 13 2011 21:37 coloursheep wrote:
GOM should take away his Code S seed for next season as a response to this travesty, players should be held to at least some standard and Naniwa falls well below that Please explain to me logically how GOM would justify taking away his tournament spot in another tournament for doing a stupid strategy in a game that had no bearing on anything? Throwing games is legal now There's no rule about worker rushing. So he didn't throw the game he tried something and it failed. Sure it's somewhat of a statement, but it's well within the rules. yes sending all his probes and didn't bother to micro They shouldn't have made him play the game. Worker rushing is still in rules. He lost by losing all his workers. he is the person who agreed to play in the tournament. he is not forced to play in the blizzard cup. he knew or he should've known that he would have to play all the games. it's on him in every way. he agreed to it and what he did is despicable because it's blatantly throwing a game. He cheesed and it failed. You can say that's throwing the game but it's in the rules.
if you honestly think he was legitimately cheesing and not thinking "fuck this im going to throw this game and go home" then i dont know what to say.
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On December 13 2011 21:46 Teael wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:44 GG2EZ wrote:
LOL why everyone cares about that match...srsly why even cast game betwen two players who are allready out.....jeeez Might come across as a bit of a surprise to you, but some people actually like watching games
... specially so because nestea was out for blood. he wanted a rematch and i doubt he's satisfied with that shit.
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
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As an avid fan of GSL and paying supporter of esports I really have no problems with this. It was funny. It was entertaining. I enjoyed watching every second of it.
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On December 13 2011 21:47 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:45 Qikz wrote:On December 13 2011 21:44 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 21:42 Qikz wrote:On December 13 2011 21:41 zaii wrote:On December 13 2011 21:40 Qikz wrote:On December 13 2011 21:39 zaii wrote:On December 13 2011 21:37 SenorChang wrote:On December 13 2011 21:37 coloursheep wrote:
GOM should take away his Code S seed for next season as a response to this travesty, players should be held to at least some standard and Naniwa falls well below that Please explain to me logically how GOM would justify taking away his tournament spot in another tournament for doing a stupid strategy in a game that had no bearing on anything? Throwing games is legal now There's no rule about worker rushing. So he didn't throw the game he tried something and it failed. Sure it's somewhat of a statement, but it's well within the rules. yes sending all his probes and didn't bother to micro They shouldn't have made him play the game. Worker rushing is still in rules. He lost by losing all his workers. he is the person who agreed to play in the tournament. he is not forced to play in the blizzard cup. he knew or he should've known that he would have to play all the games. it's on him in every way. he agreed to it and what he did is despicable because it's blatantly throwing a game. He cheesed and it failed. You can say that's throwing the game but it's in the rules. if you honestly think he was legitimately cheesing and not thinking "fuck this im going to throw this game and go home" then i dont know what to say.
Sorry but where is the difference between this and planting 2 gates in your opponent's base?
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Naniwa VS Korea just got way more interesting. Get em Nani!!!!!!
While I would've like to have seen them play (obviously) I can understand nani's decision to not want to play his big rematch against Nestea with such a low level of confidence and just being overall pissed about being out of the tourney 0-3.
Koreans are just flaming cause they cant handle having a "white dude" crush their starcraft2 god's MVP and Nestea TWICE at MLG and now they won't get their chance for revenge against naniwa. At least until next time. Cry more Korea!
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Hahaha Choya the match fixer calling NaNi a bastard. Funny stuff, I can't wait to see what comes out of this.
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On December 13 2011 21:41 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Sorry, but naniwa is a god damn moron. Not just for this, but the fact that he did it after he comes off just less than a month of like 5 controversial things. It's so fucking stupid to put yourself into a position like this and have any more shit on your record. I can't believe people are still defending him when he has a long, long history of this kind of stuff and this wasn't just a "1 time" or even "few time" thing. He really needs to learn to control himself and just suck it up for the same of his career.
Ok,so it took a game(that ment nothing) of him worker rushing Nestea for people to realize Naniwa is a selfish player that only cares about if he wins,everything else comes second.
Well guess what man,that is who he is.He wasn't a different person 3 months ago,he forfeited games before this,he refused to play games that mean nothing to him.
This is who he is and it is nothing new.
If anyone is to blame here its GOM or who ever is in charge of the game scheduling,to have forced them to play this game in the first place,because I'm pretty sure that Naniwa wanted to forfeit the game and they told him he must play his game out(I have no evidence of this just speculation).
It's their own fault that this happened if the don't like it,but hey,at least now they know.
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I laughed so hard and I'm laughing even harder at the haters rofl.
Nani is such a baller.
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On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually.
That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea
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On December 13 2011 21:42 bmml wrote:
The game having to be played was retarded, I dont blame nani in the slightest for wanting to skip this ridiculous and pointless game. Also fuck off with all your professionalism bullshit I'm fucking tired of it, some people just wanna do what they do they arent obsessed with the whole LETS MAKE ESPORTS (lol esports) mainstream bullshit.
User was temp banned for this post.
This kind of attitude is what's killing esports. Seriously.
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On December 13 2011 21:46 Teael wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:44 GG2EZ wrote:
LOL why everyone cares about that match...srsly why even cast game betwen two players who are allready out.....jeeez Might come across as a bit of a surprise to you, but some people actually like watching games
There are like 1000 games every day.So its prety BM to be forced watch unimportant matches
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On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea
He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed.
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i dont get why so many of you think the Koreans are over reacting. This is obvious disrespectful to the game as a sport and also to GOM. Basic sportsmanship is to take a lost like a man and not act like a spoilt brat. Take every chance to improve and become better. Why throw a game when you could use it to show your skills and personality. You should be eager to prove your skills after you lose to cheese, and not simply throw the game. Where are your values people? Skills don't last forever, you get slower as you aged, but the cultivation and personality developed during the course of your journey don't.
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No dignity on Naniwa. Mentally weak.
You guys wanted e-sports to hit it big time, you guys support unsportsmanlike behavior.
Edit: Since it has been noted that B/C teams are often seen after known losses, would this ever be seen in the Olympics, solo sports? This is an individual sport, so I suppose the comparison is not fair anyways. Think of all the individual sportsmen out there and compare their mentalities to Naniwa, no way you're making those two equate. "Oh they're in it to win" but surely they have some dignity to at least finish the race?
People don't give up sprints they can't win.
You didn't see Hero giving up on his 4th game did you? Or MC give up, knowing he'd advance anyways?
Nestea didn't do anything of the sort, and he absolutely had more reputation on the line. Claimed by many to be "Best Zerg in the World", knocked out R1? No doubt he's disappointed.
Not to mention, sketch given betting on SC2 in Korea.
Also he's playing in Code S January. How's everyone going to think of him? Doubt he even thought about his image. But apparently that's not something he's good at.
People are using 6pool as an example of throwing games. 6pool in zvz, valid strat. 6pool in zvp, see it all the time. People citing Idra. Jungle basin smallest map ever. He even got into Jinro's base with lings in that game. It wasn't a half-assed probe rush (0% chance of success).
Forfeiting matches in MLG vs GSL: GSL is on a fixed schedule. The two tournaments don't run the same way. Naniwa could be perceived as bad for their business, don't know what incentive they have to keep him in the tournament. Though Mr. Chae does love foreigners. People may bow out of matches in MLG but there are so many other games in MLG it may be feasible to air different matches. With the GSL's 5 minute break setup with only 4 booths the situation is obviously different. How it's GOM's fault for making Naniwa play a game (Oh man, they made Nestea play a game too, who was also 0-3, btw, screw GomTV, they're such a heartless corporation, only providing us with the best SC2 tournaments in the world with the best players) is beyond me.
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On December 13 2011 21:42 chokke wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:37 coloursheep wrote:
GOM should take away his Code S seed for next season as a response to this travesty, players should be held to at least some standard and Naniwa falls well below that So should MMA in the game vs Naniwa, Proxy Thor, how disrespectful to the game. What a shame these cheeses. It's a (bad) strat so if anything, he can be hated bnyt people, but not organisations If anything, they should've asked if the players wnated to skip the game since it wouldn't mean anything anyway
What? MMA did a great metagame build, calm before the storm is the most macro map there is so an all in is the last thing people expect. Naniwa made a expansion, multiple gates, a robo facility and robo bay and two forges, does that sound like someone preparing for an all in? No of course not because he did not think that MMA would do that, that is why it was a great decision to do it on MMA's part.
Comparing the two is ridiculous and the intent behind each action is totally different. Naniwa should be punished because of his intent. Also the organisations can dislike what he did because it cost them a highly anticipated game
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I feel bad for nestea now that he worked hard through his birthday and didn't get a chance to show what he had prepared.
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On December 13 2011 21:44 SaoPaulo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:42 iggyfisk wrote:Reminder that sports is showbiz. Naniwa is a professional entertainer. That guy that keeps getting 10k+ viewers the second he puts his stream up, what's he known for again? The next time Naniwa and Nestea are scheduled to play, do you think people will turn off the stream because of all the "disrespect"? Naniwa never got 10k viewers... Only players who gets these kind of viewers are Idra, Day9 and Stephano is on the right track to get the same
And Destiny.
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Didn't the IM Coach call Naniwa a Little son of a &#@*tch when he thumbed down Nestea at MLG lol. I bet they are so angry at him now again!
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On December 13 2011 21:48 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:41 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Sorry, but naniwa is a god damn moron. Not just for this, but the fact that he did it after he comes off just less than a month of like 5 controversial things. It's so fucking stupid to put yourself into a position like this and have any more shit on your record. I can't believe people are still defending him when he has a long, long history of this kind of stuff and this wasn't just a "1 time" or even "few time" thing. He really needs to learn to control himself and just suck it up for the same of his career. Ok,so it took a game(that ment nothing) of him worker rushing Nestea for people to realize Naniwa is a selfish player that only cares about if he wins,everything else comes second. Well guess what man,that is who he is.He wasn't a different person 3 months ago,he forfeited games before this,he refused to play games that mean nothing to him. This is who he is and it is nothing new. If anyone is to blame here its GOM or who ever is in charge of the game scheduling,to have forced them to play this game in the first place,because I'm pretty sure that Naniwa wanted to forfeit the game and they told him he must play his game out. It's their own fault that this happened if the don't like it,but hey,at least now they know.
This was an INVITATIONAL for champions. It's an event match as much as it is a competition. This is for the fans who want to see matches seen between their favorite players. If GOM knew naniwa was gonna be a dick to the fans and their organization they would never have invited him.
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On December 13 2011 21:50 ladyumbra wrote:
I feel bad for nestea now that he worked hard through his birthday and didn't get a chance to show what he had prepared.
I don't think he preprared only for Naniwa... There were other games where he could've shown his skill.
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On December 13 2011 21:48 KeksX wrote:
Sorry but where is the difference between this and planting 2 gates in your opponent's base?
This was not cheese. He did not even try to micro his probes, just allowed Nestea to surround and kill them. He threw the game away intentionally. Literally every single protoss on this planet could have done the same.
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On December 13 2011 21:43 decerto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:42 Asha` wrote:On December 13 2011 21:40 TheHova wrote:
Choya of all people laughing at somebody like Naniwa for being a progamer is particularly amusing. Why? Choya is awesome despite being primarily a coach. Because the reason he is a coach is because he played rock paper scissors for ladder points
He was always the coach, he just played as well like The Wind in oGs.
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On December 13 2011 21:26 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
You're a random viewer who probably doesn't give a shit.
However if you hosted a tournament, set their computers up for them, had sponsors and advertizements and maybe even money betting on the matches and someone did this?
How about if he was a player in your team and you want your team and your teams sponsors to get fame and exposure? How would you feel?
Seriously I hate people who only think about things in their own perspective and think of it as the truth.
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On December 13 2011 21:30 Waxangel wrote:
@MVPGuineapig: There's so many people who can't compete in leagues even if they want to.. are you mocking them?
Updating if there's anything interesting :o.
Post on /r/starcraft for free Karma :D
I cannot emphasize this enough. There are TONS of progamers who would love to have the opportunity Naniwa had to particiipate in the Blizzard Cup, but weren't unable to (not because they lacked talent, but didn't have the finances/opportunities to play in the same tournaments Naniwa has). And I'm confident in saying that most -if not all- would not have done the same shit Naniwa did, but instead play their best FOR the fans.
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China6328 Posts
On December 13 2011 21:46 Seronei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:44 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 21:42 Qikz wrote:On December 13 2011 21:41 zaii wrote:On December 13 2011 21:40 Qikz wrote:On December 13 2011 21:39 zaii wrote:On December 13 2011 21:37 SenorChang wrote:On December 13 2011 21:37 coloursheep wrote:
GOM should take away his Code S seed for next season as a response to this travesty, players should be held to at least some standard and Naniwa falls well below that Please explain to me logically how GOM would justify taking away his tournament spot in another tournament for doing a stupid strategy in a game that had no bearing on anything? Throwing games is legal now There's no rule about worker rushing. So he didn't throw the game he tried something and it failed. Sure it's somewhat of a statement, but it's well within the rules. yes sending all his probes and didn't bother to micro They shouldn't have made him play the game. Worker rushing is still in rules. He lost by losing all his workers. he is the person who agreed to play in the tournament. he is not forced to play in the blizzard cup. he knew or he should've known that he would have to play all the games. it's on him in every way. he agreed to it and what he did is despicable because it's blatantly throwing a game. He probably knew he had to play it, that doesn't make it any less stupid. He's angry at himself for losing the 3 previous games that were finished 15 min ago, he hasn't cooled down yet and is forced to play a game that doesn't matter. He's obviously not going to try his best. Naniwa is obviously an emotional person, you don't make good decisions when you're angry.
Being a progamer requires you to control your anger and make good decisions even under bad circumstances, especially at this top level. Since when you see Nestea or MVP or HuK do that even after they are already out of the tournament? That's what separate players like IdrA and Naniwa from ascending to another level.
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On December 13 2011 21:50 XRaDiiX wrote:
Didn't the IM Coach call Naniwa a Little son of a &#@*tch when he thumbed down Nestea at MLG lol. I bet they are so angry at him now again!
more like they're angry that such a childish unprofessional person calls himself a professional
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MVPGuineapig has a great point. That man seems like such a great guy!
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On December 13 2011 21:51 zdfgucker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:48 KeksX wrote:
Sorry but where is the difference between this and planting 2 gates in your opponent's base? This was not cheese. He did not even try to micro his probes, just allowed Nestea to surround them and kill them. He threw the game away intentionally. Literally every single protoss on this planet could have done the same.
My question still stands. Where is the difference?
What if he planted 2 gates into nestea's base and then a-move zealots into his mineral line? Would that really be different?
It would be other cheese, no worker rush, but still the same kind of thing in the end.
On December 13 2011 21:51 MayorITC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:30 Waxangel wrote:
@MVPGuineapig: There's so many people who can't compete in leagues even if they want to.. are you mocking them?
Updating if there's anything interesting :o.
Post on /r/starcraft for free Karma :D I cannot emphasize this enough. There are TONS of progamers who would love to have the opportunity Naniwa had to particiipate in the Blizzard Cup, but weren't unable to (not because they lacked talent, but didn't have the finances/opportunities to play in the same tournaments Naniwa has). And I'm confident in saying that most -if not all- would not have done the same shit Naniwa did, but instead play their best FOR the fans.
Thats where you are overreacting just like everyone else. Just because he did this in a meaningless game doesn't mean that he never tried.
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The fact that so many Swedes defend this behaviour is embarrassing to say the least. Naniwa is the worst kind of representative a country could ever have.
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Yeah, i really don't know what to think. Thanks for the translations tho
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On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed.
This is a complete lie. The 6 pool was pre-planned for Jungle Basin, and it almost worked.
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On December 13 2011 21:48 Probasaur wrote:
Naniwa VS Korea just got way more interesting. Get em Nani!!!!!!
While I would've like to have seen them play (obviously) I can understand nani's decision to not want to play his big rematch against Nestea with such a low level of confidence and just being overall pissed about being out of the tourney 0-3.
Koreans are just flaming cause they cant handle having a "white dude" crush their starcraft2 god's MVP and Nestea TWICE at MLG and now they won't get their chance for revenge against naniwa. At least until next time. Cry more Korea!
Yeah, plain wrong. Do you have something against Korea ? Because you seem quite agressive towards them.
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eh what nani did was justifiable considering the match had no value and he is a player with an incredibly competitive personality. in fact if he played the match it would probably hurt him more, in a competitive aspect, as he would expose his builds and the style he plays to other players. on the other hand he could have done a simple cheese but then people would probably get the wrong idea and say that he is a cheesy player who cant play straight up in a revenge match. so in the end he makes his intentions clear by doing this - honestly cant blame him.
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They shouldn't force meaningless games on "professionals". Do any of you even watch real sports? What do professional teams do at the tail end of a season when their playoff destiny's have already been decided...? They swap out the top players with the second string, usually auto losing the rest of the games. It is completely standard. Stop pretending like this matters in the slightest. Blame it on bad formatting for this tournament and nothing more.
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On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed.
He knew Jinro didn't like to wall in on Jungle Basin, which is a map with a very short rush distance. He would've won too if not for Jinro hearing the Korean casters, an accidental marine cancel and a marine that made it into a bunker with 5 HP left.
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On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed.
....Idra was 1 hit on a marine away from winning that game on a map that was extremely unfavored for Zerg. It's not "essentially the same" in the slightest.
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On December 13 2011 21:52 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:51 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 KeksX wrote:
Sorry but where is the difference between this and planting 2 gates in your opponent's base? This was not cheese. He did not even try to micro his probes, just allowed Nestea to surround them and kill them. He threw the game away intentionally. Literally every single protoss on this planet could have done the same. My question still stands. Where is the difference? What if he planted 2 gates into nestea's base and then a-move zealots into his mineral line? Would that really be different? It would be other cheese, no worker rush, but still the same kind of thing in the end.
The difference is between throwing a match intentionally and actually trying to win.
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On December 13 2011 21:52 Exarl25 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed. This is a complete lie. The 6 pool was pre-planned for Jungle Basin, and it almost worked.
It was pre planned because he thought Jungle Basin was unwinnable, not because he thought it would win him the game.
On December 13 2011 21:53 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed. ....Idra was 1 hit on a marine away from winning that game on a map that was extremely unfavored for Zerg. It's not "essentially the same" in the slightest.
He didn't think he would win before the game. Same shit.
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I don't get the attitude of the people here. Try to make a real world comparison to main stream sports just to see how wrong Naniwa was. How would you feel if the Green Bay Packers were 0-12 (obviously not true, so can't offend anyone) in the season and obviously had no chance of making the playoffs/superbowl, and then they went on to purposely lose their remaining games by sitting on the sidelines or just screwing around in front of thousands of live spectators and millions of spectators watching on television. Their fans and football fans alike would be absolutely outraged and this would be completely unacceptable. Do you think it's fair for everyone involved with the team or game that they weren't shown a true game like they were promised?
There is no difference between what Naniwa did and the analogy. It doesn't matter that the game meant nothing. Naniwa still spat in all of our faces and everyone involved with the Blizzard Cup and basically said he doesn't give a fuck about anyone except for himself and the money/championships he is trying to win.
I can't believe some of you actually find this action acceptable, and it shows that we are still very far from being considered a true spectator sport.
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On December 13 2011 21:42 Ucs wrote:
Have you ever seen a professional sport team/player/anyone do something like that even in situations in which the match didn't matter? No! Why? Because they have something to say to the fans:"Even thou we lost, we tried our best for you!"/ "I tried!" / "I can actaully play well so support me" / etc.. What he just said right now is :"I only care about winning some money. Why should I struggle to show a good game when I can't get the money? The fans? LOLOLLOLOLOLOL!"
Ever watched the Champions League? Teams that are guaranteed a top16 spot field their B/C Team quite often, even when the outcome of the game affects other teams. (See FC Arsenal - that greek club or Bayern Munich - Manchester City this CL season)
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On December 13 2011 21:50 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:48 TheKefka wrote:On December 13 2011 21:41 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Sorry, but naniwa is a god damn moron. Not just for this, but the fact that he did it after he comes off just less than a month of like 5 controversial things. It's so fucking stupid to put yourself into a position like this and have any more shit on your record. I can't believe people are still defending him when he has a long, long history of this kind of stuff and this wasn't just a "1 time" or even "few time" thing. He really needs to learn to control himself and just suck it up for the same of his career. Ok,so it took a game(that ment nothing) of him worker rushing Nestea for people to realize Naniwa is a selfish player that only cares about if he wins,everything else comes second. Well guess what man,that is who he is.He wasn't a different person 3 months ago,he forfeited games before this,he refused to play games that mean nothing to him. This is who he is and it is nothing new. If anyone is to blame here its GOM or who ever is in charge of the game scheduling,to have forced them to play this game in the first place,because I'm pretty sure that Naniwa wanted to forfeit the game and they told him he must play his game out. It's their own fault that this happened if the don't like it,but hey,at least now they know. This was an INVITATIONAL for champions. It's an event match as much as it is a competition. This is for the fans who want to see matches seen between their favorite players. If GOM knew naniwa was gonna be a dick to the fans and their organization they would never have invited him.
Can you read?
That's exactly my point.
Naniwa is a dick if he doesn't win.End off.
Everyone knows this.EVERYONE.
If they don't know what the players are like that they invite to their tournaments than I don't know what kind of organization they are.
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On December 13 2011 21:52 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:51 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 KeksX wrote:
Sorry but where is the difference between this and planting 2 gates in your opponent's base? This was not cheese. He did not even try to micro his probes, just allowed Nestea to surround them and kill them. He threw the game away intentionally. Literally every single protoss on this planet could have done the same. My question still stands. Where is the difference? What if he planted 2 gates into nestea's base and then a-move zealots into his mineral line? Would that really be different? It would be other cheese, no worker rush, but still the same kind of thing in the end.
You actually have a chance to win with that strat. There should be a 0% chance to win against a top 3 Zerg player if you attack with less workers than he has and don't even try to micro. That equals throwing away the game and insulting everyone involved.
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On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed.
Except it was his plan all along to 6 pool on that map, he had told several people that the day before. Probably because it was the worst map ever to be played in GSL.
I'm sure Idra has "thrown" matches out of frustration though, your example was just terrible
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On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Idra had planned to 6 pool on Jungle Basin before the series started because it was an unwinnable map ZvT and it almost worked. FruitDealer 6 pooled in the GSL finals too and he won the game.
6 pool is a legit strategy, probe rush isn't.
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I already said it, but the thread was so spammed that nobody could see it :
Nani and Nestea have an history, doing this to him is just so respectless...
Nani also complains everyday on how people see him and bitch about him, but just give them a reason to continue.
Just because he is a foreigner, I couldn't not root for him, but now... I'm sorry Nani, that's just too much, you can't say you are even trying.
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On December 13 2011 21:53 Kappa09 wrote:
I don't get the attitude of the people here. Try to make a real world comparison to main stream sports.
Yeah, your entire post falls apart right there since that just doesn't work.
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Do you know what makes a spectator sport? Not respect, honor, or trying your best. Spectators. If people watch, talk about it, get emotional about it, it's a good sport. The next time naniwa plays, people will watch.
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On December 13 2011 21:55 0ne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed. You have no idea what you are talking about. Idra had planned to 6 pool on Jungle Basin before the series started because it was an unwinnable map ZvT and it almost worked.
I have every idea what I'm talking about. Idra didn't think he would win with that 6 pool.
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On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed.
I have to call you out on that one. Artosis was saying after the game that it was a premediated strategy that he and Idra discussed before the game, and he was gonna do that no matter what. Idra even commented to Artosis that it would be funny if he was losing before that match and people would perceive it as a rage move.
Unless you are referring to another game where Idra 6pool Jinro in the GSL which I doubt.
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On December 13 2011 21:53 Exarl25 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:52 KeksX wrote:On December 13 2011 21:51 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 KeksX wrote:
Sorry but where is the difference between this and planting 2 gates in your opponent's base? This was not cheese. He did not even try to micro his probes, just allowed Nestea to surround them and kill them. He threw the game away intentionally. Literally every single protoss on this planet could have done the same. My question still stands. Where is the difference? What if he planted 2 gates into nestea's base and then a-move zealots into his mineral line? Would that really be different? It would be other cheese, no worker rush, but still the same kind of thing in the end. The difference is between throwing a match intentionally and actually trying to win.
You don't understand the question:
Why is a 6 probe rush bad but a proxy 2gate is not? Both are really stupid and should be no problem for a well prepared pro-player. People proxy 2gate out of frustration all the time, naniwa decided to save time and do a worker rush. Thats the same thing.
I'm not trying to defend naniwa as I think it's bullshit to do so, but I would be upset over a proxy 2gate too and people's reaction is way too much.
Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:54 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 21:52 KeksX wrote:On December 13 2011 21:51 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 KeksX wrote:
Sorry but where is the difference between this and planting 2 gates in your opponent's base? This was not cheese. He did not even try to micro his probes, just allowed Nestea to surround them and kill them. He threw the game away intentionally. Literally every single protoss on this planet could have done the same. My question still stands. Where is the difference? What if he planted 2 gates into nestea's base and then a-move zealots into his mineral line? Would that really be different? It would be other cheese, no worker rush, but still the same kind of thing in the end. You actually have a chance to win with that strat. There should be a 0% chance to win against a top 3 Zerg player if you attack with less workers than he has and don't even try to micro. That equals throwing away the game and insulting everyone involved.
The only times I see something like a proxy 2gate succeed is if the players fail horribly with scouting, which should never happen for a pro player, or just pro players playing vs randoms on ladder/small tournaments etc
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On December 13 2011 21:50 Ktk wrote:
You didn't see Hero giving up on his 4th game did you? Or MC give up, knowing he'd advance anyways?
Nestea didn't do anything of the sort, and he absolutely had more reputation on the line. Claimed by many to be "Best Zerg in the World", knocked out R1? No doubt he's disappointed.
Well Hero played so ridiculously bad compared to his normal level that you could definitaly suspect he didn't try his hardest to but it in a nice way. And unlike Naniwa's match, his one actually had an influence on the rest of the group.
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I think the biggest thing that people seem to forget is that for a lot of Asian cultures things like honor are true values.
I shall pee on Naniwa if I ever see him.
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The difference between idra's 6 pool and naniwa's probe rush is that idra actually micro'd and tried to win.
naniwa wasnt trying.
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On December 13 2011 21:50 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:48 TheKefka wrote:On December 13 2011 21:41 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Sorry, but naniwa is a god damn moron. Not just for this, but the fact that he did it after he comes off just less than a month of like 5 controversial things. It's so fucking stupid to put yourself into a position like this and have any more shit on your record. I can't believe people are still defending him when he has a long, long history of this kind of stuff and this wasn't just a "1 time" or even "few time" thing. He really needs to learn to control himself and just suck it up for the same of his career. Ok,so it took a game(that ment nothing) of him worker rushing Nestea for people to realize Naniwa is a selfish player that only cares about if he wins,everything else comes second. Well guess what man,that is who he is.He wasn't a different person 3 months ago,he forfeited games before this,he refused to play games that mean nothing to him. This is who he is and it is nothing new. If anyone is to blame here its GOM or who ever is in charge of the game scheduling,to have forced them to play this game in the first place,because I'm pretty sure that Naniwa wanted to forfeit the game and they told him he must play his game out. It's their own fault that this happened if the don't like it,but hey,at least now they know. This was an INVITATIONAL for champions. It's an event match as much as it is a competition. This is for the fans who want to see matches seen between their favorite players. If GOM knew naniwa was gonna be a dick to the fans and their organization they would never have invited him.
then there's no point in having the mlg/gsl cooperation if they can chose who they want from mlg instead of the placings to matter. and personally i don't care at all about matches that hold no worth, loses all the excitement, so couldn't care less if nani threw the game or not.
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Koreans taking things too personal when they can be the most backstabbing and untrusty people. Like Stephano said, that he didnt trust them with replays.
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On December 13 2011 21:55 0ne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed. You have no idea what you are talking about. Idra had planned to 6 pool on Jungle Basin before the series started because it was an unwinnable map ZvT and it almost worked.
Well Idra did forfeit the 2nd game vs Nerchio on TL open. He didnt get this hate at all. Btw im not saying what Naniwa did was a good thing
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On December 13 2011 21:55 FlamingForce wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:53 Kappa09 wrote:
I don't get the attitude of the people here. Try to make a real world comparison to main stream sports. Yeah, your entire post falls apart right there since that just doesn't work.
Explain to me how that doesn't work, aren't we trying to legitimatize Starcraft 2 as mainstream and eventually a real sport. It's absolutely ludicrous if you think actions like this are acceptable in any competitive format no matter what it be.
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On December 13 2011 21:42 coddan wrote:
I think it's a tad bit hypocritical of Choya since he is one of very few who have actually been banned from GSL in the past for cheating the system
Yes but hes Korean so he gets a free pass. Thats how it works in the community. Naniwa is on the same level on savior judging by most comments. I think its sad that the korean players get as much support as they do from within our community when there is none from their side.
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On December 13 2011 21:53 Kappa09 wrote:
I don't get the attitude of the people here. Try to make a real world comparison to main stream sports just to see how wrong Naniwa was. How would you feel if the Green Bay Packers were 0-12 (obviously not true, so can't offend anyone) in the season and obviously had no chance of making the playoffs/superbowl, and then they went on to purposely lose their remaining games by sitting on the sidelines or just screwing around in front of thousands of live spectators and millions of spectators watching on television. Their fans and football fans alike would be absolutely outraged and this would be completely unacceptable. Do you think it's fair for everyone involved with the team or game that they weren't shown a true game like they were promised?
Do you watch the NFL? You actually described what DOSE happen. When a team gos 12-0 or 0-12 they start pulling players to keep them fresh for the playoffs. Also the fans KNOW and UNDERSTAND that the game is meaningless, the ratings show it. On the Sportscenters and related shows all of them understand the game was meaningless, they repeat it over and over, barely skimming it over. Your comparison is very misguided.
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On December 13 2011 21:56 Usagi wrote:
Koreans taking things too personal when they can be the most backstabbing and untrusty people. Like Stephano said, that he didnt trust them with replays.
Care to elaborate? What did he say about replays? In what context?
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On December 13 2011 21:55 Seronei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:55 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed. You have no idea what you are talking about. Idra had planned to 6 pool on Jungle Basin before the series started because it was an unwinnable map ZvT and it almost worked. I have every idea what I'm talking about. Idra didn't think he would win with that 6 pool.
There is a difference between not thinking you will win and not trying to win. IdrA didn't like his chances but he picked the strat that he thought would give him the best chance and went for it. Naniwa a-moved his probes and took his hands off the keyboard
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Sheesh... The Koreans are overreacting. It wouldn't be such a huge problem if a Korean had done it. They're starting a Naniwa "witch" hunt... and making themselves look bad. Don't take it personally, you guys.
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If you don't care about E-sports or SC2 as a professional sport, that's perfectly fine. But then don't fucking play in a tournament that's partially funded by viewer fees because the tournament is no longer just a tournament but a spectator sport.
If Naniwa wants to do whatever the fuck he wants and disregard any obligations to other people then don't partake in events funded/ran/organized by those other people. You can't just only take without giving anything in return.
On December 13 2011 21:59 MarinePrince wrote:
Sheesh... The Koreans are overreacting. It wouldn't be such a huge problem if a Korean had done it. They're starting a Naniwa "witch" hunt... and making themselves look bad. Don't take it personally, you guys.
Really? Which Korean has done it? I mean it has to have happened before right for you to make that kind of conjecture.
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On December 13 2011 21:59 MarinePrince wrote:
Sheesh... The Koreans are overreacting. It wouldn't be such a huge problem if a Korean had done it. They're starting a Naniwa "witch" hunt... and making themselves look bad. Don't take it personally, you guys.
coca and byun did it, look where they are
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On December 13 2011 21:56 Yekke wrote:
The difference between idra's 6 pool and naniwa's probe rush is that idra actually micro'd and tried to win.
naniwa wasnt trying.
So everytime people decide it's not worth the effort and nerves they should be punished to death like savior? Because I know many games where people just did stupid shit and left the game early because they were sick and tired.
Yes, "throwing away games" is bad, but it's happening more often than you people seem to realize and it's not THAT bad.
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I find it funny how suddenly a lot of new posters emerged just to post about this topic =))
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On December 13 2011 21:58 Exarl25 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:55 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:55 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed. You have no idea what you are talking about. Idra had planned to 6 pool on Jungle Basin before the series started because it was an unwinnable map ZvT and it almost worked. I have every idea what I'm talking about. Idra didn't think he would win with that 6 pool. There is a difference between not thinking you will win and not trying to win. IdrA didn't like his chances but he picked the strat that he thought would give him the best chance and went for it. Naniwa a-moved his probes and took his hands off the keyboard
If you think 6 pool on a map that's so easy to wall of is the best chance you have you're delusional. He would have left instantly if there had been a wall there.
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On December 13 2011 21:58 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:56 Usagi wrote:
Koreans taking things too personal when they can be the most backstabbing and untrusty people. Like Stephano said, that he didnt trust them with replays. Care to elaborate? What did he say about replays? In what context?
Stephano said he doesn't really trust sharing his relays with koreans, since he trust them, and doesn't want them to figure him out, or something to that effect
Totally not even applicable to this situation
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
Well, this mainly just shows how much more serious eSports still is to Koreans than us.
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On December 13 2011 21:57 Kappa09 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:55 FlamingForce wrote:On December 13 2011 21:53 Kappa09 wrote:
I don't get the attitude of the people here. Try to make a real world comparison to main stream sports. Yeah, your entire post falls apart right there since that just doesn't work. Explain to me how that doesn't work, aren't we trying to legitimatize Starcraft 2 as mainstream and eventually a real sport. It's absolutely ludicrous if you think actions like this are acceptable in any competitive format no matter what it be.
Read the actual topic, plz. Neelia already explained it.
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On December 13 2011 21:56 Usagi wrote:
Koreans taking things too personal when they can be the most backstabbing and untrusty people. Like Stephano said, that he didnt trust them with replays.
Stephano not trusting Koreans means that they're backstabbing and "untrusty" people? That's just how Stephano is. He didn't want to take the chance and that's perfectly fine. I don't see how that somehow proves that Koreans are untrustworthy.
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A lot of discussion between Mr. Chae and the other casters on twitter atm.
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i bet complexity is really glad right about now. i guess we know how that story went
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Gom should have ended the night after the group was decided and Nestea and Nani were both knocked out. They would have done it on any other night, but their poor planning led to a Nestea-Naniwa rematching being held to late to be meaningful. I have watched a ton of GSL and I actually turned off the stream after Nani lost to the Thor rush thinking there was no way Gom would play games when the round has already been decided (don't do it in up/downs).
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On December 13 2011 22:00 Seronei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:58 Exarl25 wrote:On December 13 2011 21:55 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:55 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed. You have no idea what you are talking about. Idra had planned to 6 pool on Jungle Basin before the series started because it was an unwinnable map ZvT and it almost worked. I have every idea what I'm talking about. Idra didn't think he would win with that 6 pool. There is a difference between not thinking you will win and not trying to win. IdrA didn't like his chances but he picked the strat that he thought would give him the best chance and went for it. Naniwa a-moved his probes and took his hands off the keyboard If you think 6 pool on a map that's so easy to wall of is the best chance you have you're delusional. He would have left instantly if there had been a wall there.
This was a premeditated strategy. He even discussed it with others the day before the match. Have you even seen it? He almost won.
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I hope you are not being selective with the tweets you translate. Because there's no way for me to tell..
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On December 13 2011 21:58 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:56 Usagi wrote:
Koreans taking things too personal when they can be the most backstabbing and untrusty people. Like Stephano said, that he didnt trust them with replays. Care to elaborate? What did he say about replays? In what context?
he didnt practice with his teamhouse members iirc.
he said it in a recent interview.
and it was proved when mvp said that his gf sent him vods of his stream to study.
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On December 13 2011 21:54 Neelia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:42 Ucs wrote:
Have you ever seen a professional sport team/player/anyone do something like that even in situations in which the match didn't matter? No! Why? Because they have something to say to the fans:"Even thou we lost, we tried our best for you!"/ "I tried!" / "I can actaully play well so support me" / etc.. What he just said right now is :"I only care about winning some money. Why should I struggle to show a good game when I can't get the money? The fans? LOLOLLOLOLOLOL!"
Ever watched the Champions League? Teams that are guaranteed a top16 spot field their B/C Team quite often, even when the outcome of the game affects other teams. (See FC Arsenal - that greek club or Bayern Munich - Manchester City this CL season)
True, however they do that for a 100% valid reason (the difficulty of fielding the same 14-15 players 2 games/week). Not to mention that THEY STILL give their best to win, even when fielding their B-teamers.
If narniwa would've tried to micro/actually win that situation, I'm sure no one would've given him any shit.
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On December 13 2011 21:58 gregnog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:53 Kappa09 wrote:
I don't get the attitude of the people here. Try to make a real world comparison to main stream sports just to see how wrong Naniwa was. How would you feel if the Green Bay Packers were 0-12 (obviously not true, so can't offend anyone) in the season and obviously had no chance of making the playoffs/superbowl, and then they went on to purposely lose their remaining games by sitting on the sidelines or just screwing around in front of thousands of live spectators and millions of spectators watching on television. Their fans and football fans alike would be absolutely outraged and this would be completely unacceptable. Do you think it's fair for everyone involved with the team or game that they weren't shown a true game like they were promised? Do you watch the NFL? You actually described what DOSE happen. When a team gos 12-0 or 0-12 they start pulling players to keep them fresh for the playoffs. Also the fans KNOW and UNDERSTAND that the game is meaningless, the ratings show it. On the Sportscenters and related shows all of them understand the game was meaningless, they repeat it over and over, barely skimming it over. Your comparison is very misguided.
Actually no I explained it perfectly. There is a big difference between not putting out your full effort and completely throwing the game or not playing it at all. The fans go into a game like that expecting it to not be the best quality game because it doesn't mean anything. However, that doesn't give the team or players the right to just completely screw around or blow it off. There is a fine line between the two, that you are missing and you clearly are the misguided one. This is true for any sport.
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On December 13 2011 21:56 namste wrote:
I think the biggest thing that people seem to forget is that for a lot of Asian cultures things like honor are true values.
I shall pee on Naniwa if I ever see him.
ye koreans love honor, they never throw games
OH WAIT
im so disappointed that the official mvp team twitter is commenting on nani like this. none of the western teams gloated when esv weekly game was thrown, the teams kept a measured and professional response. the fact a team is publicly shitty on nani is out of line.
korean sc2 scene looking more childish every week
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On December 13 2011 21:56 Yekke wrote:
The difference between idra's 6 pool and naniwa's probe rush is that idra actually micro'd and tried to win.
naniwa wasnt trying.
This is perfect example of "double standards" our community uses. You try to convince us Idra even considers 6 pool valid strat. Really?
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Shitstorm ensues as usual in this community yes it was disrespectful but can you honestly not see his point? The format is really shitty, BO1? seriously? and allows these kind of "pointless" games to happen. Naniwa was disrespectful but i don't get why we after all this time have these shitty formats i find that MORE disrespectful to players and spectators alike.
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On December 13 2011 21:33 kfour wrote:I'm not mad, just kinda disappointed. I understand why naniwa did what he did, but it's a bit embarassing...
Totally agree. I'm still his fan, but right now I feel like the parent telling his kid that he's disappointed.
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On December 13 2011 22:02 jnsjr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:00 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:58 Exarl25 wrote:On December 13 2011 21:55 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:55 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed. You have no idea what you are talking about. Idra had planned to 6 pool on Jungle Basin before the series started because it was an unwinnable map ZvT and it almost worked. I have every idea what I'm talking about. Idra didn't think he would win with that 6 pool. There is a difference between not thinking you will win and not trying to win. IdrA didn't like his chances but he picked the strat that he thought would give him the best chance and went for it. Naniwa a-moved his probes and took his hands off the keyboard If you think 6 pool on a map that's so easy to wall of is the best chance you have you're delusional. He would have left instantly if there had been a wall there. This was a premeditated strategy. He even discussed it with others the day before the match. Have you even seen it? He almost won.
Of course I've seen it. I know it was premeditated. It was still a stupid strategy because he didn't think he could win before the match started.
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true words by GuineaPig. this is the fuckin year-end tournament. Getting there by winning a few bo3 over non-Koreans doesnt mean you can shit on other efforts throughout the year
NaNiwa is a kid after all. And kid should be punished hard, big time
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Wasn't a good thing to do, but why so much hate for it? Imagine if you were in his situation I'd say at least 30% of people would of been so frustrated after those series, though screw it, doesn't matter lets just finish this quickly.
On December 13 2011 21:52 LittLeD wrote:
The fact that so many Swedes defend this behaviour is embarrassing to say the least. Naniwa is the worst kind of representative a country could ever have.
Lol
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On December 13 2011 22:02 jjhchsc2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:58 KeksX wrote:On December 13 2011 21:56 Usagi wrote:
Koreans taking things too personal when they can be the most backstabbing and untrusty people. Like Stephano said, that he didnt trust them with replays. Care to elaborate? What did he say about replays? In what context? he didnt practice with his teamhouse members iirc. he said it in a recent interview. and it was proved when mvp said that his gf sent him vods of his stream to study.
stephano isn't practicing in im house, what's the problem?
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On December 13 2011 22:03 Arceus wrote:
true words by GuineaPig. this is the fuckin year-end tournament. Getting there by winning a few bo3 over non-Koreans doesnt mean you can shit on other efforts throughout the year
NaNiwa is a kid after all. And kid should be punished hard, big time
There's a new daddy in town, a discipline daddy.
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If Coca lost his code S spot i think Naniwa is fucked
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Switzerland2892 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:01 Chriscras wrote:
Gom should have ended the night after the group was decided and Nestea and Nani were both knocked out. They would have done it on any other night, but their poor planning led to a Nestea-Naniwa rematching being held to late to be meaningful. I have watched a ton of GSL and I actually turned off the stream after Nani lost to the Thor rush thinking there was no way Gom would play games when the round has already been decided (don't do it in up/downs).
Normally they would have canceled it I believe too, but maybe they thought it would entertain the viewers.
Anyways, wasn't the best idea ever for nani to probe rush
But as huk retweeted btw
NeWKiDsc2 NeW KiD
@
@LorangerChris Stephano 6pooled cloud twice in a row when he was 0-3 in a game that actually mattered. Nobody gave a shit. Haters gonna hate
People tolerate idra because many people love him for his bm and stephano has a huge fan base, nani doesn't have enough support to do this.
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On December 13 2011 22:03 Arceus wrote:
true words by GuineaPig. this is the fuckin year-end tournament. Getting there by winning a few bo3 over non-Koreans doesnt mean you can shit on other efforts throughout the year
NaNiwa is a kid after all. And kid should be punished hard, big time
In what way did he shit on other's efforts?! Gosh, you people act like 6 year olds
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I am sure we can discuss the "awesome" final at Blizzcon between NesTea and MVP aswell, but I guess we should just call out Naniwa for doing a thumbs down to NesTea and worker-rushing a game that has absolutely no meaning to play.
Edit: wasn't it SlayerS decission to pull out Coca for that silly reason.
Koreans are to harsh.
It's all "I want to play to show good games, so I will cheese in tournament". So much hypocrasy.
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all these people that are saying waa waa waa nani got cheesed, OFC HE FUCKING DID he does the same greedy shit evry single game , there is a reason he is 0-10 in korea atm, because they know what he is doing and for soem reason he fails to change up his builds EVER . same old greedy shit evry single game.
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"@MVPGuineapig: There's so many people who can't compete in leagues even if they want to.. are you mocking them?"
Those players should get better and qualify.
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On December 13 2011 22:04 pPingu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:01 Chriscras wrote:
Gom should have ended the night after the group was decided and Nestea and Nani were both knocked out. They would have done it on any other night, but their poor planning led to a Nestea-Naniwa rematching being held to late to be meaningful. I have watched a ton of GSL and I actually turned off the stream after Nani lost to the Thor rush thinking there was no way Gom would play games when the round has already been decided (don't do it in up/downs). Normally they would have canceled it I believe too, but maybe they thought it would entertain the viewers. Anyways, wasn't the best idea ever for nani to probe rush But as huk retweeted btw Show nested quote +NeWKiDsc2 NeW KiD
@
@LorangerChris Stephano 6pooled cloud twice in a row when he was 0-3 in a game that actually mattered. Nobody gave a shit. Haters gonna hate People tolerate idra because many people love him for his bm and stephano has a huge fan base, nani doesn't have enough support to do this.
So it's ok to do it only if enough people like you? What kind of justification is that
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On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed.
But that was a "I can't win in a straight-up game on this map so I will hope he does 15CC as it's pretty popular on Jungle Basin and if he does that I can win" instead of "I'll amove probes afk"
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the thing that considers me is, that if naniwa faced someone else in the last game, so that the game really would have mattered for the outcome of the group... would he have done the same thing? probably not, but if he did, THAT would be really bad.
As it is know though, it obviously doesn't matter at all
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On December 13 2011 21:59 MarinePrince wrote:
Sheesh... The Koreans are overreacting. It wouldn't be such a huge problem if a Korean had done it. They're starting a Naniwa "witch" hunt... and making themselves look bad. Don't take it personally, you guys.
I don't think the Koreans are the ones who look bad in this situation...
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On December 13 2011 21:30 Waxangel wrote:
@SC2MVP (Team MVP official twitter): What a relief that Complexity transferred Naniwa to Quantic. We almost had to have that kind of player stay in our house for longer. The most disappointing game as an SC2 fan.
What's the most angering is that Nestea practiced hard into the night to practice yesterday, even though it was his birthday.
Yea Quantic must be so proud right now ^^
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On December 13 2011 21:55 iggyfisk wrote:
Do you know what makes a spectator sport? Not respect, honor, or trying your best. Spectators. If people watch, talk about it, get emotional about it, it's a good sport. The next time naniwa plays, people will watch.
So American Idol is the greatest spectator sport ever!
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On December 13 2011 22:04 pPingu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:01 Chriscras wrote:
Gom should have ended the night after the group was decided and Nestea and Nani were both knocked out. They would have done it on any other night, but their poor planning led to a Nestea-Naniwa rematching being held to late to be meaningful. I have watched a ton of GSL and I actually turned off the stream after Nani lost to the Thor rush thinking there was no way Gom would play games when the round has already been decided (don't do it in up/downs). Normally they would have canceled it I believe too, but maybe they thought it would entertain the viewers. Anyways, wasn't the best idea ever for nani to probe rush But as huk retweeted btw Show nested quote +NeWKiDsc2 NeW KiD
@
@LorangerChris Stephano 6pooled cloud twice in a row when he was 0-3 in a game that actually mattered. Nobody gave a shit. Haters gonna hate People tolerate idra because many people love him for his bm and stephano has a huge fan base, nani doesn't have enough support to do this.
as many have pointed out, literally throwing your probes to nestea without microing them at all is different from cheesing.
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On December 13 2011 21:58 Exarl25 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:55 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:55 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed. You have no idea what you are talking about. Idra had planned to 6 pool on Jungle Basin before the series started because it was an unwinnable map ZvT and it almost worked. I have every idea what I'm talking about. Idra didn't think he would win with that 6 pool. There is a difference between not thinking you will win and not trying to win. IdrA didn't like his chances but he picked the strat that he thought would give him the best chance and went for it. Naniwa a-moved his probes and took his hands off the keyboard
he picked 6 pooling precisely because it was a retarded strat, hoping that jinro would never expect it. that doesnt make idra special. it almost paid off and that just shows that doing dumb shit can work sometimes.
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I'll just say this,if you were a Naniwa fan and now you are "disappointed" in what he has done,you had no idea what Naniwa was like in the first place.
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On December 13 2011 22:04 Gigglesstarcraft wrote:
Wasn't a good thing to do, but why so much hate for it? Imagine if you were in his situation I'd say at least 30% of people would of been so frustrated after those series, though screw it, doesn't matter lets just finish this quickly.
Well then 2 gates proxy all in is the best choice, since probe rushing clearly says "I don't wan't to play against you KTHXBYE"
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On December 13 2011 22:05 SenorChang wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:04 pPingu wrote:On December 13 2011 22:01 Chriscras wrote:
Gom should have ended the night after the group was decided and Nestea and Nani were both knocked out. They would have done it on any other night, but their poor planning led to a Nestea-Naniwa rematching being held to late to be meaningful. I have watched a ton of GSL and I actually turned off the stream after Nani lost to the Thor rush thinking there was no way Gom would play games when the round has already been decided (don't do it in up/downs). Normally they would have canceled it I believe too, but maybe they thought it would entertain the viewers. Anyways, wasn't the best idea ever for nani to probe rush But as huk retweeted btw NeWKiDsc2 NeW KiD
@
@LorangerChris Stephano 6pooled cloud twice in a row when he was 0-3 in a game that actually mattered. Nobody gave a shit. Haters gonna hate People tolerate idra because many people love him for his bm and stephano has a huge fan base, nani doesn't have enough support to do this. So it's ok to do it only if enough people like you? What kind of justification is that
It's how the world works. Sad really.
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On December 13 2011 21:58 gregnog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:53 Kappa09 wrote:
I don't get the attitude of the people here. Try to make a real world comparison to main stream sports just to see how wrong Naniwa was. How would you feel if the Green Bay Packers were 0-12 (obviously not true, so can't offend anyone) in the season and obviously had no chance of making the playoffs/superbowl, and then they went on to purposely lose their remaining games by sitting on the sidelines or just screwing around in front of thousands of live spectators and millions of spectators watching on television. Their fans and football fans alike would be absolutely outraged and this would be completely unacceptable. Do you think it's fair for everyone involved with the team or game that they weren't shown a true game like they were promised? Do you watch the NFL? You actually described what DOSE happen. When a team gos 12-0 or 0-12 they start pulling players to keep them fresh for the playoffs. Also the fans KNOW and UNDERSTAND that the game is meaningless, the ratings show it. On the Sportscenters and related shows all of them understand the game was meaningless, they repeat it over and over, barely skimming it over. Your comparison is very misguided.
The difference is that they do play the game. What Naniwa did was throw the game, he took his hands off the keyboard, there was zero chance of him winning.
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On December 13 2011 22:05 careohx wrote:
"@MVPGuineapig: There's so many people who can't compete in leagues even if they want to.. are you mocking them?"
Those players should get better and qualify.
some players aren't lucky enough to be born outside of korea and get on a rich non-korean team and get flown to foreign events and play foreigners to get an invite to a korean tournament
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On December 13 2011 22:05 GrimOni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:59 MarinePrince wrote:
Sheesh... The Koreans are overreacting. It wouldn't be such a huge problem if a Korean had done it. They're starting a Naniwa "witch" hunt... and making themselves look bad. Don't take it personally, you guys. I don't think the Koreans are the ones who look bad in this situation...
Coca, Choya, Byun... They all broke rules and exploited systems to their adventage, or at least tried to. We forgave them after a punishment that was quite small.(Which is perfectly fine imho)
Naniwa drone rushes in a meaningless game and people almost want to sue him.
What.The.Bloody.Hell.People need to get their shit together.
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On December 13 2011 22:05 careohx wrote:
"@MVPGuineapig: There's so many people who can't compete in leagues even if they want to.. are you mocking them?"
Those players should get better and qualify.
Not everyone has a deep-pocketed team that can send you around winning (relatively) easy international tournaments.
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On December 13 2011 22:02 ikona wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:56 Yekke wrote:
The difference between idra's 6 pool and naniwa's probe rush is that idra actually micro'd and tried to win.
naniwa wasnt trying. This is perfect example of "double standards" our community uses. You try to convince us Idra even considers 6 pool valid strat. Really?
^what this guy said.
I think it's an overreaction tbh. the games didn't matter anymore . Sure he might have offended the koreans , but I think for our community to react like this and give naniwa shit is uncalled for. I bet if it were an MLG and a player didn't show up for the .. let say 10-12th place match or something , they wouldn't get any flak for it.
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Lol fuck them.
"What's the most angering is that Nestea practiced hard into the night to practice yesterday, even though it was his birthday."
uh.... and NaNiwa is supposed to know that it was Nesteas birthday? lol.....
this is like a fucking soap opera.
Soon NaNiwa will probably need a bodyguard to smash some faces.
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On December 13 2011 22:06 LastLordofCastamere wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:55 iggyfisk wrote:
Do you know what makes a spectator sport? Not respect, honor, or trying your best. Spectators. If people watch, talk about it, get emotional about it, it's a good sport. The next time naniwa plays, people will watch. So American Idol is the greatest spectator sport ever!
except its not a sport.... is it a great spectacle? yes. sarcastic responses normally go down better if they atleast make sense
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On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed.
watch that game again, Artosis knew he was going to do that before he did it, it was a planned build on that map based on what he had seen of jinro's play on it. Naniwa's decision was not based on any strategy .
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lol koreans are so uptight, chill out guys lolol. Personally I wasnt even excited anymore about that game knowing it didnt mean anything and I just laughed when he worker rushed hehe
He lost three games that he should have at one point won, you gotta feel his frustration :3
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@FXOChoya: [Can't believe] that kind of bastard is a pro-gamer.
LOLOLOL I can I do is laugh
Well, Choya himself is a progamer, why wouldn't Naniwa be?
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i just feel bad for nestea... happy birthday...
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On December 13 2011 22:02 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:56 namste wrote:
I think the biggest thing that people seem to forget is that for a lot of Asian cultures things like honor are true values.
I shall pee on Naniwa if I ever see him. ye koreans love honor, they never throw games OH WAIT im so disappointed that the official mvp team twitter is commenting on nani like this. none of the western teams gloated when esv weekly game was thrown, the teams kept a measured and professional response. the fact a team is publicly shitty on nani is out of line. korean sc2 scene looking more childish every week
Some of Naniwa's comments in his interviews painted their team in a poor light, so I can see where it's coming from. But at the same time, it seems out of character for the Korean scene.
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On December 13 2011 22:06 rauk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:05 careohx wrote:
"@MVPGuineapig: There's so many people who can't compete in leagues even if they want to.. are you mocking them?"
Those players should get better and qualify. some players aren't lucky enough to be born outside of korea and get on a rich non-korean team and get flown to foreign events and play foreigners to get an invite to a korean tournament
On December 13 2011 22:07 WigglingSquid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:05 careohx wrote:
"@MVPGuineapig: There's so many people who can't compete in leagues even if they want to.. are you mocking them?"
Those players should get better and qualify. Not everyone has a deep-pocketed team that can send you around winning (relatively) easy international tournaments.
Haha, Hivemind.
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On December 13 2011 22:04 Gigglesstarcraft wrote:
Wasn't a good thing to do, but why so much hate for it? Imagine if you were in his situation I'd say at least 30% of people would of been so frustrated after those series, though screw it, doesn't matter lets just finish this quickly.
First off, I don't know much about WC3 and manners in that game. But Nestea and other SC2 players come from BW, a game where you play games till the very end when there's no chance to win anymore. You don't throw away games, even if there's no chance to advance. For Koreans that is considered to be normal for a pro gamer --- and then comes a kid like Naniwa, doesn't micro and blatantly throws away the game in 80 seconds or something.
Frustration can get to you, but Naniwa is a pro gamer, he plays SC2 for a living. He is expected to behave better than that.
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On December 13 2011 22:03 Seronei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:02 jnsjr wrote:On December 13 2011 22:00 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:58 Exarl25 wrote:On December 13 2011 21:55 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:55 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:On December 13 2011 21:45 Pikarya wrote:
Don't think IdrA even gets this butthurt. I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed. You have no idea what you are talking about. Idra had planned to 6 pool on Jungle Basin before the series started because it was an unwinnable map ZvT and it almost worked. I have every idea what I'm talking about. Idra didn't think he would win with that 6 pool. There is a difference between not thinking you will win and not trying to win. IdrA didn't like his chances but he picked the strat that he thought would give him the best chance and went for it. Naniwa a-moved his probes and took his hands off the keyboard If you think 6 pool on a map that's so easy to wall of is the best chance you have you're delusional. He would have left instantly if there had been a wall there. This was a premeditated strategy. He even discussed it with others the day before the match. Have you even seen it? He almost won. Of course I've seen it. I know it was premeditated. It was still a stupid strategy because he didn't think he could win before the match started.
But he was actually still trying to win with it which is the point you seem completely incapable of understanding.
If Naniwa had done a proxy 2-Gate or something and actually tried to micro his Zealots and win the game then people would be looking at this differently. A lot of people would still be a bit annoyed but you wouldn't see anywhere near as much criticism as you are now.
The point is that Naniwa intentionally lost the game. He didn't even micro his Probes, he a-moved and took his hands off the keyboard. He might as well have just called gg and quit 5 seconds in.
So many people have explained the difference to you by now and I hope you can finally get it through your head.
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On December 13 2011 22:02 Kappa09 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:58 gregnog wrote:On December 13 2011 21:53 Kappa09 wrote:
I don't get the attitude of the people here. Try to make a real world comparison to main stream sports just to see how wrong Naniwa was. How would you feel if the Green Bay Packers were 0-12 (obviously not true, so can't offend anyone) in the season and obviously had no chance of making the playoffs/superbowl, and then they went on to purposely lose their remaining games by sitting on the sidelines or just screwing around in front of thousands of live spectators and millions of spectators watching on television. Their fans and football fans alike would be absolutely outraged and this would be completely unacceptable. Do you think it's fair for everyone involved with the team or game that they weren't shown a true game like they were promised? Do you watch the NFL? You actually described what DOSE happen. When a team gos 12-0 or 0-12 they start pulling players to keep them fresh for the playoffs. Also the fans KNOW and UNDERSTAND that the game is meaningless, the ratings show it. On the Sportscenters and related shows all of them understand the game was meaningless, they repeat it over and over, barely skimming it over. Your comparison is very misguided. Actually no I explained it perfectly. There is a big difference between not putting out your full effort and completely throwing the game or not playing it at all. The fans go into a game like that expecting it to not be the best quality game because it doesn't mean anything. However, that doesn't give the team or players the right to just completely screw around or blow it off. There is a fine line between the two, that you are missing and you clearly are the misguided one. This is true for any sport.
What did you explain perfectly? Why do you get to make an arbitrary line as to where you are throwing the game or just putting in less effort? Coming from an NFL can you could not be more wrong. EVERYBODY knows the game is meaningless. No true fan watches these pointless games. In fact the majority of fans refuse to watch the farce of a competition. You end up seeing lots of weird crazy plays that would never make it in a real game, because these games are essentially practice for your second/third string at this point.
You are honestly just making stuff up that you know nothing about. Stop trying to force this comparison on E-sports, it dose not work.
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Oh, wow. Thankfully I missed this when it was live.
The match shouldn't have been played, imo. Both players are out and have nothing to play for. What motivation do they have to play their best and use good strategies in a game of absolutely no value? For example, in the Up/Down matches, matches that have no value whatsoever are skipped (see Tassadar vs anypro in July Up/Down Group B).
That said, Naniwa should have just forfeited. Yeah, it's basically the same with him running all his probes to die at the beginning, but at least by forfeiting before the game starts he doesn't give Nestea/the viewers/casters etc the impression that it's actually going to be a somewhat proper game.
Some remarks are pretty bad, especially the one from team MVP and Choya.
Oh, well.
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On December 13 2011 22:09 Exarl25 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:03 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 22:02 jnsjr wrote:On December 13 2011 22:00 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:58 Exarl25 wrote:On December 13 2011 21:55 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:55 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:
[quote]
I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed. You have no idea what you are talking about. Idra had planned to 6 pool on Jungle Basin before the series started because it was an unwinnable map ZvT and it almost worked. I have every idea what I'm talking about. Idra didn't think he would win with that 6 pool. There is a difference between not thinking you will win and not trying to win. IdrA didn't like his chances but he picked the strat that he thought would give him the best chance and went for it. Naniwa a-moved his probes and took his hands off the keyboard If you think 6 pool on a map that's so easy to wall of is the best chance you have you're delusional. He would have left instantly if there had been a wall there. This was a premeditated strategy. He even discussed it with others the day before the match. Have you even seen it? He almost won. Of course I've seen it. I know it was premeditated. It was still a stupid strategy because he didn't think he could win before the match started. But he was actually still trying to win with it which is the point you seem completely incapable of understanding. If Naniwa had done a proxy 2-Gate or something and actually tried to micro his Zealots and win the game then people would be looking at this differently. A lot of people would still be a bit annoyed but you wouldn't see anywhere near as much criticism as you are now. The point is that Naniwa intentionally lost the game. He didn't even micro his Probes, he a-moved and took his hands off the keyboard. He might as well have just called gg and quit 5 seconds in. So many people have explained the difference to you by now and I hope you can finally get it through your head.
He only tried because he was lucky. If he saw Nestea 6 pool he might have microed. You don't know.
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On December 13 2011 22:01 namste wrote:
A lot of discussion between Mr. Chae and the other casters on twitter atm.
I can understand korean and the discussion is nothing with this naniwa.
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On December 13 2011 21:37 Ventor wrote:
That was a dick move by him and he deserves to lose a lot of respect and fans from doing that. My heart goes out to Nestea for that though, knowing he practiced his heart out to get his revenge on Naniwa from MLG. If the community condones this move by Naniwa then I have 0 faith in eSports ever becoming a mainstream sport ANY time soon.
Your faith in this community means a lot to me... so I better change my opinion..?
Anyway Naniwa was obviously tilted pretty hard and being forced to play a game you don't want to after those frustrating losses... That was a lot more entertaining than the half hearted attempt he would have made in a game anyway.
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On December 13 2011 22:05 careohx wrote:
"@MVPGuineapig: There's so many people who can't compete in leagues even if they want to.. are you mocking them?"
Those players should get better and qualify.
They didn't qualify because they lacked the finances/opportunities to participate in all the tournaments Naniwa has. This is backed up by Naniwa's mediocre record in Korea, showing that Naniwa isn't worthy of a tournament that's supposed to have the best 10 players in the world.
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On December 13 2011 22:09 NuclearJudas wrote:
Oh, wow. Thankfully I missed this when it was live.
The match shouldn't have been played, imo. Both players are out and have nothing to play for. What motivation do they have to play their best and use good strategies in a game of absolutely no value? For example, in the Up/Down matches, matches that have no value whatsoever are skipped (see Tassadar vs anypro in July Up/Down Group B).
That said, Naniwa should have just forfeited. Yeah, it's basically the same with him running all his probes to die at the beginning, but at least by forfeiting before the game starts he doesn't give Nestea/the viewers/casters etc the impression that it's actually going to be a somewhat proper game.
Some remarks are pretty bad, especially the one from team MVP and Choya.
Oh, well.
well it would've been said prior to the tournament that all the games will be played. naniwa would've had to agree to all these terms. so basically by agreeing to that and then throwing a game cause he was out of it is just terrible.
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On December 13 2011 22:11 MayorITC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:05 careohx wrote:
"@MVPGuineapig: There's so many people who can't compete in leagues even if they want to.. are you mocking them?"
Those players should get better and qualify. They didn't qualify because they lacked the finances/opportunities to participate in all the tournaments Naniwa has. This is backed up by Naniwa's mediocre record in Korea, showing that Naniwa isn't worthy of a tournament that's supposed to have the best 10 players in the world.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Global_Invitational
You look like you're desperately trying to justify your overreaction. Just chill. Nobody will judge you, I mean you didn't worker rush, did you?
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On December 13 2011 22:06 LeopoldStotch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:58 gregnog wrote:On December 13 2011 21:53 Kappa09 wrote:
I don't get the attitude of the people here. Try to make a real world comparison to main stream sports just to see how wrong Naniwa was. How would you feel if the Green Bay Packers were 0-12 (obviously not true, so can't offend anyone) in the season and obviously had no chance of making the playoffs/superbowl, and then they went on to purposely lose their remaining games by sitting on the sidelines or just screwing around in front of thousands of live spectators and millions of spectators watching on television. Their fans and football fans alike would be absolutely outraged and this would be completely unacceptable. Do you think it's fair for everyone involved with the team or game that they weren't shown a true game like they were promised? Do you watch the NFL? You actually described what DOSE happen. When a team gos 12-0 or 0-12 they start pulling players to keep them fresh for the playoffs. Also the fans KNOW and UNDERSTAND that the game is meaningless, the ratings show it. On the Sportscenters and related shows all of them understand the game was meaningless, they repeat it over and over, barely skimming it over. Your comparison is very misguided. The difference is that they do play the game. What Naniwa did was throw the game, he took his hands off the keyboard, there was zero chance of him winning.
I could understand why someone who dose not watch the NFL would say that. But if you think second string QB's and WR's can beat another NFL team that is actually trying with starters.... there is nothing to discuss.
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On December 13 2011 22:10 Seronei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:09 Exarl25 wrote:On December 13 2011 22:03 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 22:02 jnsjr wrote:On December 13 2011 22:00 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:58 Exarl25 wrote:On December 13 2011 21:55 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:55 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:
[quote]
That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed. You have no idea what you are talking about. Idra had planned to 6 pool on Jungle Basin before the series started because it was an unwinnable map ZvT and it almost worked. I have every idea what I'm talking about. Idra didn't think he would win with that 6 pool. There is a difference between not thinking you will win and not trying to win. IdrA didn't like his chances but he picked the strat that he thought would give him the best chance and went for it. Naniwa a-moved his probes and took his hands off the keyboard If you think 6 pool on a map that's so easy to wall of is the best chance you have you're delusional. He would have left instantly if there had been a wall there. This was a premeditated strategy. He even discussed it with others the day before the match. Have you even seen it? He almost won. Of course I've seen it. I know it was premeditated. It was still a stupid strategy because he didn't think he could win before the match started. But he was actually still trying to win with it which is the point you seem completely incapable of understanding. If Naniwa had done a proxy 2-Gate or something and actually tried to micro his Zealots and win the game then people would be looking at this differently. A lot of people would still be a bit annoyed but you wouldn't see anywhere near as much criticism as you are now. The point is that Naniwa intentionally lost the game. He didn't even micro his Probes, he a-moved and took his hands off the keyboard. He might as well have just called gg and quit 5 seconds in. So many people have explained the difference to you by now and I hope you can finally get it through your head. He only tried because he was lucky. If he saw Nestea 6 pool he might have microed. You don't know.
What are you talking about? IdrA went into the game wanting to win and with a pre-planned build that he thought had a chance of winning.
Naniwa went into the game intending to lose. Not just thinking he was going to lose intending to lose. He didn't want to win, he didn't want to play at all.
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On December 13 2011 21:52 LittLeD wrote:
The fact that so many Swedes defend this behaviour is embarrassing to say the least. Naniwa is the worst kind of representative a country could ever have.
some of these swedish fans would still defending if he murdered nestea on a livestream
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On December 13 2011 22:10 jojo311 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:01 namste wrote:
A lot of discussion between Mr. Chae and the other casters on twitter atm. I can understand korean and the discussion is nothing with this naniwa.
There was some talk about imjaedok as in Nestea, but my korean vocabulary is really awful so couldn't actually understand much :/
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United States33310 Posts
On December 13 2011 21:52 LittLeD wrote:
The fact that so many Swedes defend this behaviour is embarrassing to say the least. Naniwa is the worst kind of representative a country could ever have.
ZLATAN
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stephano did the exact same thing in a match that actually mattered, yet no one gave a shit. gotta love double standards
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On December 13 2011 22:02 Kappa09 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:58 gregnog wrote:On December 13 2011 21:53 Kappa09 wrote:
I don't get the attitude of the people here. Try to make a real world comparison to main stream sports just to see how wrong Naniwa was. How would you feel if the Green Bay Packers were 0-12 (obviously not true, so can't offend anyone) in the season and obviously had no chance of making the playoffs/superbowl, and then they went on to purposely lose their remaining games by sitting on the sidelines or just screwing around in front of thousands of live spectators and millions of spectators watching on television. Their fans and football fans alike would be absolutely outraged and this would be completely unacceptable. Do you think it's fair for everyone involved with the team or game that they weren't shown a true game like they were promised? Do you watch the NFL? You actually described what DOSE happen. When a team gos 12-0 or 0-12 they start pulling players to keep them fresh for the playoffs. Also the fans KNOW and UNDERSTAND that the game is meaningless, the ratings show it. On the Sportscenters and related shows all of them understand the game was meaningless, they repeat it over and over, barely skimming it over. Your comparison is very misguided. Actually no I explained it perfectly. There is a big difference between not putting out your full effort and completely throwing the game or not playing it at all. The fans go into a game like that expecting it to not be the best quality game because it doesn't mean anything. However, that doesn't give the team or players the right to just completely screw around or blow it off. There is a fine line between the two, that you are missing and you clearly are the misguided one. This is true for any sport.
The only difference I see between the two is one is sugar-coated fantasy and one is just the plain ugly truth. The fine line is an illusion. Maybe he should have done some Hail Mary but the idea behind it is the same.
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On December 13 2011 22:14 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:52 LittLeD wrote:
The fact that so many Swedes defend this behaviour is embarrassing to say the least. Naniwa is the worst kind of representative a country could ever have. ZLATAN
oh god it all makes sense now
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are there translations of the mr chae and Ahn Jun-young tweets yet?
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On December 13 2011 22:12 synaptik wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:52 LittLeD wrote:
The fact that so many Swedes defend this behaviour is embarrassing to say the least. Naniwa is the worst kind of representative a country could ever have. some of these swedish fans would still defending if he murdered nestea on a livestream
We are dedicated fans, much like canadians making exuses for Huk when he loses. That aside I think nani shoulsve at least proxy 2gated.
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On December 13 2011 21:53 gregnog wrote:
They shouldn't force meaningless games on "professionals". Do any of you even watch real sports? What do professional teams do at the tail end of a season when their playoff destiny's have already been decided...? They swap out the top players with the second string, usually auto losing the rest of the games. It is completely standard. Stop pretending like this matters in the slightest. Blame it on bad formatting for this tournament and nothing more.
In the UK, Premier League teams have been fined a lot of money for fielding "weaker" teams. I understand that this is partly due to betting though, so I'm not sure you can compare this directly with more established sports.
Also, why are people comparing this to other cheeses? The whole point is that Naniwa didn't put any effort in at all to win that game... at least with a 6 pool or proxy you have to build a building, and you still micro after that.
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On December 13 2011 22:14 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:52 LittLeD wrote:
The fact that so many Swedes defend this behaviour is embarrassing to say the least. Naniwa is the worst kind of representative a country could ever have. ZLATAN
well played
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On December 13 2011 22:15 Letall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:12 synaptik wrote:On December 13 2011 21:52 LittLeD wrote:
The fact that so many Swedes defend this behaviour is embarrassing to say the least. Naniwa is the worst kind of representative a country could ever have. some of these swedish fans would still defending if he murdered nestea on a livestream We are dedicated fans, much like canadians making exuses for Huk when he loses. That aside I think nani shoulsve at least proxy 2gated.
3 nexsus before gate imo:>
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On December 13 2011 22:14 Sackings wrote:
stephano did the exact same thing in a match that actually mattered, yet no one gave a shit. gotta love double standards
I don't really have an opinion either way, but dont you think it was pretty bad timing for him to screw around like this? (new team, bit of controversy, etc)
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Saw the whole thing live. What Naniwa did was incredibly immature and unaccetible. I hope he gets some sort of penalty for that. Disrespectful to SC2 fans, Nestea and Gom. I feel sorry for people who paid to watch the tournament and were anticipating the match-up. Yea he was having a bad day but that is no excuse, needs to take a lesson from LiquidHero who stuck it out and gave his best instead of quitting.
Also people need to stop comparing him to Idra. Idra is BM towards cheesy/all in opponents and out-spoken but he never really insults his fans and tourney organizers intentionally like that. In fact if you have ever met him at a live event he one of the more awesome pros always interacting with fans in between games. Korean reaction is totally justified. Would have been better if they had given Stephano a second shot in Group B.
For those in doubt, Naniwa pretty much a moved his probes in Nestea's main and took his hands off the keyboard.
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On December 13 2011 22:14 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:52 LittLeD wrote:
The fact that so many Swedes defend this behaviour is embarrassing to say the least. Naniwa is the worst kind of representative a country could ever have. ZLATAN
Touché
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To all of the people saying the game was meaningless, even though it didn't affect the standings in the tournament IT WAS A HIGHLY ANTICIPATED MATCH. The casters were hyping it up, Quantic Gaming's twitter was hyping it up, people were looking forward to this rematch. Naniwa just a+moved his workers, took his hands off the keyboard, and spit in the face of everyone involved in, and everyone watching, this HIGHLY PRESTIGIOUS LAST TOURNAMENT OF THE YEAR.
He is a despicable, childish, and selfish human being.
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On December 13 2011 22:02 jjhchsc2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:58 KeksX wrote:On December 13 2011 21:56 Usagi wrote:
Koreans taking things too personal when they can be the most backstabbing and untrusty people. Like Stephano said, that he didnt trust them with replays. Care to elaborate? What did he say about replays? In what context? he didnt practice with his teamhouse members iirc. he said it in a recent interview. and it was proved when mvp said that his gf sent him vods of his stream to study.
MVP's gf recorded stephano's stream on her phone, has nothing to do with vods or koreans being sneaky
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On December 13 2011 22:02 Kappa09 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:58 gregnog wrote:On December 13 2011 21:53 Kappa09 wrote:
I don't get the attitude of the people here. Try to make a real world comparison to main stream sports just to see how wrong Naniwa was. How would you feel if the Green Bay Packers were 0-12 (obviously not true, so can't offend anyone) in the season and obviously had no chance of making the playoffs/superbowl, and then they went on to purposely lose their remaining games by sitting on the sidelines or just screwing around in front of thousands of live spectators and millions of spectators watching on television. Their fans and football fans alike would be absolutely outraged and this would be completely unacceptable. Do you think it's fair for everyone involved with the team or game that they weren't shown a true game like they were promised? Do you watch the NFL? You actually described what DOSE happen. When a team gos 12-0 or 0-12 they start pulling players to keep them fresh for the playoffs. Also the fans KNOW and UNDERSTAND that the game is meaningless, the ratings show it. On the Sportscenters and related shows all of them understand the game was meaningless, they repeat it over and over, barely skimming it over. Your comparison is very misguided. Actually no I explained it perfectly. There is a big difference between not putting out your full effort and completely throwing the game or not playing it at all. The fans go into a game like that expecting it to not be the best quality game because it doesn't mean anything. However, that doesn't give the team or players the right to just completely screw around or blow it off. There is a fine line between the two, that you are missing and you clearly are the misguided one. This is true for any sport.
how can you be serious about comparing a team sport with one individual gamer.
of course b-teamers will give their very best, because it is an oppurtunity for them to show off their skills. but do the managers really care about it? man city vs munich is a good example of it actually. hoeneß sat next to that other guy looking as he would rather want to fall asleep or take a nice dinner.
nani can't just replace himself with his own bteam-nani and put in the effort to show that his second character tries. sounds a bit schizophrenic, eh?
just keep that comparison out of the game = thanks. you could try to argue with tennis or golf, however. if players are not able to play or don't want to play, the would just forfeit a match. you never really get to know if that player was sick or anything
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On December 13 2011 22:12 synaptik wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:52 LittLeD wrote:
The fact that so many Swedes defend this behaviour is embarrassing to say the least. Naniwa is the worst kind of representative a country could ever have. some of these swedish fans would still defending if he murdered nestea on a livestream
imagine the viewer count! and the drama! *drools*
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On December 13 2011 21:52 LittLeD wrote:
The fact that so many Swedes defend this behaviour is embarrassing to say the least. Naniwa is the worst kind of representative a country could ever have.
Don't worry. We have the incredible well-mannered ThorZaiN to counter Naniwa. They're like our "good cop, bad cops".
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:15 rushian wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:14 Waxangel wrote:On December 13 2011 21:52 LittLeD wrote:
The fact that so many Swedes defend this behaviour is embarrassing to say the least. Naniwa is the worst kind of representative a country could ever have. ZLATAN well played
indeed
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On December 13 2011 22:15 jianming wrote:
Also, why are people comparing this to other cheeses? The whole point is that Naniwa didn't put any effort in at all to win that game... at least with a 6 pool or proxy you have to build a building, and you still micro after that.
You can 6pool without any effort, too. And people already did that, too.
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I am glad, theres people like Naniwa out there. I am not particularly a fan of him. But he undoubtedly has character and is a progamer who doesnt always try to be overly causious in his actions. he is clearly polarizing, which is something sc2 needs right now. even if you hate him, for what he does... at least you have a very strong oppionion about him.
If some people feel offended for what he does its mainly their problem, and why shouldnt they - taking away any gsl status would be the totally wrong consequence tho. take it to the virtual battlefield. if naniwa isnt good enough for code s, he will drop out. but dont make up some reasons now, so that higher authorities kick him out, because they dont like him. he showed up and didnt leave the game instantly. you cant ban a player if he loses he match you werent very happy with...
naniwa is growing to be a great villain. if you liked the friendly banter between eg and mouze during nasl-finals, you have to love the show naniwa is putting on. and the best thing is, it isnt even fake. naniwa is actually like that. a player who gets carried away by his emotions. to me its great ENTERTAINMENT. and that is, why i watch sc2.
holy moly i am so waiting for the next match between nestea and naniwa. boy, there will be some serious history
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On December 13 2011 22:07 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:06 LastLordofCastamere wrote:On December 13 2011 21:55 iggyfisk wrote:
Do you know what makes a spectator sport? Not respect, honor, or trying your best. Spectators. If people watch, talk about it, get emotional about it, it's a good sport. The next time naniwa plays, people will watch. So American Idol is the greatest spectator sport ever! except its not a sport.... is it a great spectacle? yes. sarcastic responses normally go down better if they atleast make sense
Why not? Aren't they competing?
If all you require are people watching and talking about it, then just go watch reality tv.
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Nestea just tweeted, someone translate it!
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On December 13 2011 22:13 namste wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:10 jojo311 wrote:On December 13 2011 22:01 namste wrote:
A lot of discussion between Mr. Chae and the other casters on twitter atm. I can understand korean and the discussion is nothing with this naniwa. There was some talk about imjaedok as in Nestea, but my korean vocabulary is really awful so couldn't actually understand much :/
Mr. chae said " curious about the reaction of the audiences at the studio. i should have gone to studio. "
and the other guy (Ethan_Ahn, think he is a journalist.) said " Nestea was really upset and the audiences were dumbfounded"
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On December 13 2011 22:16 babyToSS wrote:
Saw the whole thing live. What Naniwa did was incredibly immature and unaccetible. I hope he gets some sort of penalty for that. Disrespectful to SC2 fans, Nestea and Gom. I feel sorry for people who paid to watch the tournament and were anticipating the match-up. Yea he was having a bad day but that is no excuse, needs to take a lesson from LiquidHero who stuck it out and gave his best instead of quitting.
Also people need to stop comparing him to Idra. Idra is BM towards cheesy/all in opponents and out-spoken but he never really insults his fans and tourney organizers intentionally like that. In fact if you have ever met him at a live event he one of the more awesome pros always interacting with fans in between games. Korean reaction is totally justified. Would have been better if they had given Stephano a second shot in Group B.
For those in doubt, Naniwa pretty much a moved his probes in Nestea's main and took his hands off the keyboard.
Oh my god you have sand in your vagina?
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I love naniwa, I would strip for him. What he did brought smiles to many (including me).
Wish people would stop being so serious and just enjoy. If you think hés a joke, just laugh, dont hate. Naniwa the boss joker of the century! Love him ♥♥
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Honestly the reaction from so many people trying to justify this kind of behaviour shows why no foreigners can compete with Koreans. I've never been so angry watching any professional sport before. Obviously most of the fan base are immature idiots who don't take it seriously whatsoever so look: if you think Naniwa's actions here should just be let go or just be passed off as a 'a bit of fun' then you are wrong, just flat out wrong. GOM should remove his S class and ban him from participating for at least 1 season. If a Korean had done this, I am almost positive that even if GOM didn't take action, they would have been kicked out of their team and blacklisted and no other team would ever touch them again no matter how good they are, it is so fucking disrespectful to everyone.
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On December 13 2011 22:17 Ponchey wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:52 LittLeD wrote:
The fact that so many Swedes defend this behaviour is embarrassing to say the least. Naniwa is the worst kind of representative a country could ever have. Don't worry. We have the incredible well-mannered ThorZaiN to counter Naniwa. They're like our "good cop, bad cops".
MorroW is kind of cute, too, from what i heard!  And i don't remember SaSe as a bad sportsman either, even though he's with Naniwa now so he might learn a thing or two.
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Chill out guys,NaNi said he didn't pratice very much because he had spent a week visiting his family so the season was over for him according to the latest ST House interview.
But yes he could've atleast proxy 2gate into DT :D.
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On December 13 2011 22:09 Exarl25 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:03 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 22:02 jnsjr wrote:On December 13 2011 22:00 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:58 Exarl25 wrote:On December 13 2011 21:55 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:55 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 iggyfisk wrote:
[quote]
I think when he completely threw the series against Nerchio, as in he didn't even play the last game, when the games still mattered and he could still have won, is a bit higher up on the scale actually. That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed. You have no idea what you are talking about. Idra had planned to 6 pool on Jungle Basin before the series started because it was an unwinnable map ZvT and it almost worked. I have every idea what I'm talking about. Idra didn't think he would win with that 6 pool. There is a difference between not thinking you will win and not trying to win. IdrA didn't like his chances but he picked the strat that he thought would give him the best chance and went for it. Naniwa a-moved his probes and took his hands off the keyboard If you think 6 pool on a map that's so easy to wall of is the best chance you have you're delusional. He would have left instantly if there had been a wall there. This was a premeditated strategy. He even discussed it with others the day before the match. Have you even seen it? He almost won. Of course I've seen it. I know it was premeditated. It was still a stupid strategy because he didn't think he could win before the match started. But he was actually still trying to win with it which is the point you seem completely incapable of understanding. If Naniwa had done a proxy 2-Gate or something and actually tried to micro his Zealots and win the game then people would be looking at this differently. A lot of people would still be a bit annoyed but you wouldn't see anywhere near as much criticism as you are now. The point is that Naniwa intentionally lost the game. He didn't even micro his Probes, he a-moved and took his hands off the keyboard. He might as well have just called gg and quit 5 seconds in. So many people have explained the difference to you by now and I hope you can finally get it through your head.
Hahaha omg i just love hotheaded nerds who overreact to EVERYTHING. REAL NaNiwa fans who know NaNiwa's personality and appreciates him only thinks this is funny. I thought it was funny.
And NaNiwa did it for his REAL fans. The fans that understand him and don't overreact on a small thing like a match that doesn't matter.
People need to get a hobby instead of being bitches about everything that naniwa does that they don't like. People who don't like naniwa are overreacting. Hating for silly reasons.
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Isn't Coca out of code S for throwing a meaningless game in an online tournament?
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Someoen translate that...google translate is failing hard for that tweet.
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On December 13 2011 22:16 Miketorreza wrote:
To all of the people saying the game was meaningless, even though it didn't affect the standings in the tournament IT WAS A HIGHLY ANTICIPATED MATCH. The casters were hyping it up, Quantic Gaming's twitter was hyping it up, people were looking forward to this rematch. Naniwa just a+moved his workers, took his hands off the keyboard, and spit in the face of everyone involved in, and everyone watching, this HIGHLY PRESTIGIOUS LAST TOURNAMENT OF THE YEAR.
He is a despicable, childish, and selfish human being.
Well, if ANYTHING, they should arrange a formal showmatch. Bo5 or bo7.
A "grudgematch" where both players are on tilt after losing to 3 players they expected to beat at least 2 is a disgrace.
The game would be aweful non-the-less.
If people are honestly considering boycoting "e-sports" [horrible term] or GSL because of this, it shows how little you actually care and how disgracefull you are for it in the first place.
It's not some fragile term, it's quite solid and drama attracts viewers which generates interest in the game.
We can always discuss many of the decissions of MC vs DRG, or how Idra was known to GG early with no reason [ref vs HuK and vs MMA] and it didn't "kill" anything.
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On December 13 2011 22:18 Giriath wrote:
Nestea just tweeted, someone translate it!
"I was insanely frustrated by my bad performance today(Nestea himself) and the opponent did a more insane job"
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On December 13 2011 22:15 Letall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:12 synaptik wrote:On December 13 2011 21:52 LittLeD wrote:
The fact that so many Swedes defend this behaviour is embarrassing to say the least. Naniwa is the worst kind of representative a country could ever have. some of these swedish fans would still defending if he murdered nestea on a livestream We are dedicated fans, much like canadians making exuses for Huk when he loses. That aside I think nani shoulsve at least proxy 2gated.
must be great to cheer on someone who doesnt give a shi- about his fans. i envy you.
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On December 13 2011 21:40 ComusLoM wrote:
This is the first time I have actually felt like the Korean community don't deserve any respect at all.
If it was a Korean losing three times to cheese there would be the same comments but more along the lines of:
LOLOLOL STUPID FOREIGNERS CAN'T BEAT US IN REAL GAMES
They talk about professionalism while showing none themselves on this issue.
Woah woah woah...You are just pulling these words out of your ass. Why would you ever think that the koreans will act like that. Also who do you think would say that? The korean fans? The players? I am pretty sure that the koreans respect a lot of the foreigners ability to keep up with the top koreans. I doubt that anything like that would have been said if a foreigner did that to a korean. Think a little harder before you make those dumb accusations.
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On December 13 2011 22:19 chokke wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:16 Miketorreza wrote:
To all of the people saying the game was meaningless, even though it didn't affect the standings in the tournament IT WAS A HIGHLY ANTICIPATED MATCH. The casters were hyping it up, Quantic Gaming's twitter was hyping it up, people were looking forward to this rematch. Naniwa just a+moved his workers, took his hands off the keyboard, and spit in the face of everyone involved in, and everyone watching, this HIGHLY PRESTIGIOUS LAST TOURNAMENT OF THE YEAR.
He is a despicable, childish, and selfish human being. Well, if ANYTHING, they should arrange a formal showmatch. Bo5 or bo7. A "grudgematch" where both players are on tilt after losing to 3 players they expected to beat at least 2 is a disgrace. The game would be aweful non-the-less. If people are honestly considering boycoting "e-sports" [horrible term] or GSL because of this, it shows how little you actually care and how disgracefull you are for it in the first place. It's not some fragile term, it's quite solid and drama attracts viewers which generates interest in the game.
Exactly, players should not be responsible for shit casters and managers make up.
If the players didn't agree to something like that then don't talk about it, it's their own fault in this case.
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On December 13 2011 22:19 0ne wrote:
Isn't coca out of code S for throwing meaningless game in an online tournament?
byun is also sitting out of gsl for it
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On December 13 2011 22:07 kurrysauce wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:02 ikona wrote:On December 13 2011 21:56 Yekke wrote:
The difference between idra's 6 pool and naniwa's probe rush is that idra actually micro'd and tried to win.
naniwa wasnt trying. This is perfect example of "double standards" our community uses. You try to convince us Idra even considers 6 pool valid strat. Really? ^what this guy said. I think it's an overreaction tbh. the games didn't matter anymore . Sure he might have offended the koreans , but I think for our community to react like this and give naniwa shit is uncalled for. I bet if it were an MLG and a player didn't show up for the .. let say 10-12th place match or something , they wouldn't get any flak for it.
People throw the placement matches the entire time and nobody cares, despite them even being for MLG points and money.
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I think - for some reason - a lot of people are failing to note something about the Korean mentality.
What is the one line THEY ALL SAY in interviews? 'I hope to give good games'.
Heck, in the finals just gone one of them, in his interview, referenced the GSL curse and hoped that this would be the finals to break it. They genuinely care about entertaining the fans, so to them, what Naniwa did was a complete dick move.
And the difference is that a probe rush can't ever win. It's the same as just GGing as soon as the game loads, with a few more explosions. It's not like going for broke on a 2 gate base proxy. If that's not scouted it has a genuine chance to win and I think it's been used in GSL at least once.
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On December 13 2011 22:19 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:09 Exarl25 wrote:On December 13 2011 22:03 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 22:02 jnsjr wrote:On December 13 2011 22:00 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:58 Exarl25 wrote:On December 13 2011 21:55 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:55 0ne wrote:On December 13 2011 21:49 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote:
[quote]
That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed. You have no idea what you are talking about. Idra had planned to 6 pool on Jungle Basin before the series started because it was an unwinnable map ZvT and it almost worked. I have every idea what I'm talking about. Idra didn't think he would win with that 6 pool. There is a difference between not thinking you will win and not trying to win. IdrA didn't like his chances but he picked the strat that he thought would give him the best chance and went for it. Naniwa a-moved his probes and took his hands off the keyboard If you think 6 pool on a map that's so easy to wall of is the best chance you have you're delusional. He would have left instantly if there had been a wall there. This was a premeditated strategy. He even discussed it with others the day before the match. Have you even seen it? He almost won. Of course I've seen it. I know it was premeditated. It was still a stupid strategy because he didn't think he could win before the match started. But he was actually still trying to win with it which is the point you seem completely incapable of understanding. If Naniwa had done a proxy 2-Gate or something and actually tried to micro his Zealots and win the game then people would be looking at this differently. A lot of people would still be a bit annoyed but you wouldn't see anywhere near as much criticism as you are now. The point is that Naniwa intentionally lost the game. He didn't even micro his Probes, he a-moved and took his hands off the keyboard. He might as well have just called gg and quit 5 seconds in. So many people have explained the difference to you by now and I hope you can finally get it through your head. Hahaha omg i just love hotheaded nerds who overreact to EVERYTHING. REAL NaNiwa fans who know NaNiwa's personality and appreciates him only thinks this is funny. I thought it was funny. And NaNiwa did it for his REAL fans. The fans that understand him and don't overreact on a small thing like a match that doesn't matter. People need to get a hobby instead of being bitches about everything that naniwa does that they don't like. People who don't like naniwa are overreacting. Hating for silly reasons.
I've been a Naniwa fan for a long time and although I don't approve of what he did, I'm still his fan now.
But if you think this was some secret shout out to his real fans then you are deluded. He was thinking of no one but himself.
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On December 13 2011 22:20 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:19 0ne wrote:
Isn't coca out of code S for throwing meaningless game in an online tournament? byun is also sitting out of gsl for it
it wasnt a meaningless game, it was for coda a/s seed
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translate the latest nestea tweet please:<
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naniwa such a troll :D someone translate nestea's latest tweet plx!
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United States22154 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:12 synaptik wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:52 LittLeD wrote:
The fact that so many Swedes defend this behaviour is embarrassing to say the least. Naniwa is the worst kind of representative a country could ever have. some of these swedish fans would still defending if he murdered nestea on a livestream
To be fair its not just the swedish fans, its all the naniwa fanatics, however I imagine that if Naniwa stabbed Nestea on stream the response would look something like this:
After Naniwa stabs Nestea right before a deciding game, a Defensive Naniwa Fan wrote:
Come on guys, I know it was a little extreme, but I think its a legitimate strategy, I mean by making sure Nestea can no longer compete he guarantees himself a spot in the finals. Also, there is nothing in the rules that says that you *can't* brutally eviscerate your opponent to make sure you get a spot in the finals. This is just Naniwa exploring other avenues of play. The Koreans are just upset because he is a foreigner and he made sure Nestea won't win. Get over it, Naniwa FIGHTING!
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Can't believe these kinds of retards are pro gamers.
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Can someone explain this Zlatan thing to me? I don't follow the soccer scene.
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On December 13 2011 21:58 Robinsa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:42 coddan wrote:
I think it's a tad bit hypocritical of Choya since he is one of very few who have actually been banned from GSL in the past for cheating the system Yes but hes Korean so he gets a free pass. Thats how it works in the community. Naniwa is on the same level on savior judging by most comments. I think its sad that the korean players get as much support as they do from within our community when there is none from their side.
I completely agree with you. Foreigners and Koreans need to unite, but we can't keep having this lopsided relationship. Eventually, when the foreign players are just as good (consistently) as the Koreans, I think the relationship will balance out a bit.
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On December 13 2011 22:12 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:11 MayorITC wrote:On December 13 2011 22:05 careohx wrote:
"@MVPGuineapig: There's so many people who can't compete in leagues even if they want to.. are you mocking them?"
Those players should get better and qualify. They didn't qualify because they lacked the finances/opportunities to participate in all the tournaments Naniwa has. This is backed up by Naniwa's mediocre record in Korea, showing that Naniwa isn't worthy of a tournament that's supposed to have the best 10 players in the world. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Global_InvitationalYou look like you're desperately trying to justify your overreaction. Just chill. Nobody will judge you, I mean you didn't worker rush, did you?
Great! One tournament where he doesn't win!
Now let me cite another tournament. It's called the Blizzard Cup (0-4). Oh wait, let me cite another tournament. Code A GSL August (0-2). And yet another tournament... Code A October (0-2). And Code A November (0-2).
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On December 13 2011 22:20 Zavior wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:20 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 22:19 0ne wrote:
Isn't coca out of code S for throwing meaningless game in an online tournament? byun is also sitting out of gsl for it it wasnt a meaningless game, it was for coda a/s seed
wrong. there was no deal for that tournament, nothing was on the line.
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On December 13 2011 22:12 synaptik wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:52 LittLeD wrote:
The fact that so many Swedes defend this behaviour is embarrassing to say the least. Naniwa is the worst kind of representative a country could ever have. some of these swedish fans would still defending if he murdered nestea on a livestream
hahaha no what the fuck is wrong with you?
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On December 13 2011 22:21 TraderSC wrote:
translate the latest nestea tweet please:<
he said
"I was insanely frustrated by my bad performance today(Nestea himself) and the opponent did a more insane job"
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In professional sports leagues, you never see teams throw games. Never. Even if they are eliminated from playoffs, they may not play their best players. The guys that do play, they play their hearts out to make the team next year. I didn't like this guy before and I like him less now.
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i love how people on the one seide always say something like "ESPORT needs to grow", "We need Starcraft on Tv" etc. but then support someone like Naniwa who acts in such an embarassing and childish way
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On December 13 2011 22:19 jojo311 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:18 Giriath wrote:
Nestea just tweeted, someone translate it! "I was insanely frustrated by my bad performance today(Nestea himself) and the opponent did a more insane job"
Hahahaha, I think that's actually the best response to this so far. "If Naniwa is trying to play worse than the worst performer, it's his problem"
IMO, he shouldn't be crucified.
But it wasn't a meaningless game either. Every game should mean something to a pro. You play to win. Always. That's what BoxeR said once. You give your best every game.
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On December 13 2011 22:21 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:20 Zavior wrote:On December 13 2011 22:20 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 22:19 0ne wrote:
Isn't coca out of code S for throwing meaningless game in an online tournament? byun is also sitting out of gsl for it it wasnt a meaningless game, it was for coda a/s seed wrong. there was no deal for that tournament, nothing was on the line.
Eh, there is a code A seed and a 150$ pricepool.
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On December 13 2011 22:18 Treziel wrote:
Honestly the reaction from so many people trying to justify this kind of behaviour shows why no foreigners can compete with Koreans. I've never been so angry watching any professional sport before. Obviously most of the fan base are immature idiots who don't take it seriously whatsoever so look: if you think Naniwa's actions here should just be let go or just be passed off as a 'a bit of fun' then you are wrong, just flat out wrong. GOM should remove his S class and ban him from participating for at least 1 season. If a Korean had done this, I am almost positive that even if GOM didn't take action, they would have been kicked out of their team and blacklisted and no other team would ever touch them again no matter how good they are, it is so fucking disrespectful to everyone.
because in korea, esports is serious business. its tv broadcasted and has a real place in their culture
whereas ppl in the west would like like "chill out its just a game that didnt matter"
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Wow I really think the mvp team hates Naniwa. Never took him seriously when he was there and now this.
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On December 13 2011 22:12 gregnog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:06 LeopoldStotch wrote:On December 13 2011 21:58 gregnog wrote:On December 13 2011 21:53 Kappa09 wrote:
I don't get the attitude of the people here. Try to make a real world comparison to main stream sports just to see how wrong Naniwa was. How would you feel if the Green Bay Packers were 0-12 (obviously not true, so can't offend anyone) in the season and obviously had no chance of making the playoffs/superbowl, and then they went on to purposely lose their remaining games by sitting on the sidelines or just screwing around in front of thousands of live spectators and millions of spectators watching on television. Their fans and football fans alike would be absolutely outraged and this would be completely unacceptable. Do you think it's fair for everyone involved with the team or game that they weren't shown a true game like they were promised? Do you watch the NFL? You actually described what DOSE happen. When a team gos 12-0 or 0-12 they start pulling players to keep them fresh for the playoffs. Also the fans KNOW and UNDERSTAND that the game is meaningless, the ratings show it. On the Sportscenters and related shows all of them understand the game was meaningless, they repeat it over and over, barely skimming it over. Your comparison is very misguided. The difference is that they do play the game. What Naniwa did was throw the game, he took his hands off the keyboard, there was zero chance of him winning. I could understand why someone who dose not watch the NFL would say that. But it is not true in the slightest. If you think second string QB's and WR's can beat another NFL team that is actually trying with starters.... there is nothing to discuss.
The same thing happens in real football as well. When there is nothing on the line teams will send out a reserve/youth side that has no real chance of winning*. Sometimes teams even send out a reserve side in a game that actually matters just to rest players for an even more important match - and in a league format almost every game will influence the teams around you even if it doesn't influence your own team.
So yeah, this does happen in real sports.
It was still a dick move. Nani still could have proxied 2 gates in the middle of the map or something. But the end result was always going to be a disappointing game. That just happens when competitive players play a non-competitive match.
* well some of the biggest teams have pretty sick reserve lineups but that's just at the top
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United Kingdom38198 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:20 Zavior wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:20 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 22:19 0ne wrote:
Isn't coca out of code S for throwing meaningless game in an online tournament? byun is also sitting out of gsl for it it wasnt a meaningless game, it was for coda a/s seed
There was no seed for that tournament
(Even if there had been the incident happened in the very first round of a weekly tournament. To win a Code A seed you had to place top 4 in a weekly event to get entered into the monthly finals, and only the winner (or highest placing non gsl player) of that would actually get the seed)
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On December 13 2011 22:22 jojo311 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:21 TraderSC wrote:
translate the latest nestea tweet please:< he said "I was insanely frustrated by my bad performance today(Nestea himself) and the opponent did a more insane job"
ty, doesn't seem nestea is too mad about it himself:s
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On December 13 2011 22:22 Seronei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:21 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 22:20 Zavior wrote:On December 13 2011 22:20 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 22:19 0ne wrote:
Isn't coca out of code S for throwing meaningless game in an online tournament? byun is also sitting out of gsl for it it wasnt a meaningless game, it was for coda a/s seed wrong. there was no deal for that tournament, nothing was on the line. Eh, there is a code A seed and a 150$ pricepool.
Mr. Chae posted himself saying there was nothing on the line as they hadn't worked out a new deal.
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meh while nani should have tried to play it out, i also blame the format for creating pointless games.. So either way i dont really care .. Seems to me there is alot of over-reactions once again.
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On December 13 2011 22:20 seejay2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:40 ComusLoM wrote:
This is the first time I have actually felt like the Korean community don't deserve any respect at all.
If it was a Korean losing three times to cheese there would be the same comments but more along the lines of:
LOLOLOL STUPID FOREIGNERS CAN'T BEAT US IN REAL GAMES
They talk about professionalism while showing none themselves on this issue. Woah woah woah...You are just pulling these words out of your ass. Why would you ever think that the koreans will act like that. Also who do you think would say that? The korean fans? The players? I am pretty sure that the koreans respect a lot of the foreigners ability to keep up with the top koreans. I doubt that anything like that would have been said if a foreigner did that to a korean. Think a little harder before you make those dumb accusations.
What? What makes me think the Koreans will act like that? Maybe the OP makes me think that given their terrible reaction to this.
Also I just realised I wrote something about Naniwa in a hype blog that completely explains why this should have been the expected outcome:
On May 13 2011 09:06 ComusLoM wrote:Naniwa is Lewis Nixon ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VaGGY.gif) “Oh, I have every confidence in my scrounging abilities, and I have a case of Vat '69 hidden in your footlocker. “
“ ...to be honest I really want to become the first bonjwa after some consideration”Naniwa is known to have had his problems just like Nixon’s drinking, his team history was almost as long as his BoX win streak and in his early career he was known for bad manner, abuse colossus builds and being kicked out of ESL Pro Series Germany, akin to Lew’s demotion. But to be honest, who cares? Naniwa is a beast, perhaps he is THE beast. What seems to be a common trend for Swedish players that win MLG titles is that they receive a huge boost to their confidence and their tournament results reflect this. In a few days Naniwa will play in the finals of arguably the most prestigious Starcraft 2 tournament of all time, the TSL3. And whether he wins or loses he has already made history. I for one believe he will continue the tradition of Protoss winning the TSL and no one will bat an eyelid if he wins, he is certainly not the underdog. However he was the underdog when he travelled with ease through the MLG Open bracket, not losing a single game until the final where he managed to lose a whole 2 to two time silver medallist and 2-4 MLG loser Kiwikaki. Naniwa may not have won the road to Korea tournament losing his first boX series in a long time (he won 35 in a row to be exact) to Sase in the final, but there is no doubt that he will be trying at some point in the future. At the moment Naniwa is the only MLG champion not to have competed in the GSL Code S tournament, an interesting distinction. Naniwa has broken many records, but if you want more hype just check out Plexa's Hype Thread
Also this was the best possible outcome for GOM. An hour long epic slugfest would not have generated nearly this type of response and publicity for this tournament.
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Someone translate this please: "정신나간경기력에 화가나서 정신차리고보니 상대가 더 정신나간짓을 해주네"
nvm - see above!
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On December 13 2011 22:22 Seronei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:21 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 22:20 Zavior wrote:On December 13 2011 22:20 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 22:19 0ne wrote:
Isn't coca out of code S for throwing meaningless game in an online tournament? byun is also sitting out of gsl for it it wasnt a meaningless game, it was for coda a/s seed wrong. there was no deal for that tournament, nothing was on the line. Eh, there is a code A seed and a 150$ pricepool.
there was a not code A seed. That has been explained a million times
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A lot of envy here. QQ more plz.
Remove all humanity from the players and make them robots?
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On December 13 2011 22:22 Nero. wrote:
i love how people on the one seide always say something like "ESPORT needs to grow", "We need Starcraft on Tv" etc. but then support someone like Naniwa who acts in such an embarassing and childish way
He probe rushed.
PROBE RUSHED.
He didn't matchfix, he didn't hack, he didn't kill somebody, HE A-MOVED his workers!
What the heck.
This is really, really getting out of hand.
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On December 13 2011 22:23 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:22 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 22:21 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 22:20 Zavior wrote:On December 13 2011 22:20 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 22:19 0ne wrote:
Isn't coca out of code S for throwing meaningless game in an online tournament? byun is also sitting out of gsl for it it wasnt a meaningless game, it was for coda a/s seed wrong. there was no deal for that tournament, nothing was on the line. Eh, there is a code A seed and a 150$ pricepool. Mr. Chae posted himself saying there was nothing on the line as they hadn't worked out a new deal.
It wasn't? I seem to remember it being after the announcement of the Code A spot. But ok then. Still 150$.
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On December 13 2011 22:23 TraderSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:22 jojo311 wrote:On December 13 2011 22:21 TraderSC wrote:
translate the latest nestea tweet please:< he said "I was insanely frustrated by my bad performance today(Nestea himself) and the opponent did a more insane job" ty, doesn't seem nestea is too mad about it himself:s
No he's definitely mad in Korean.
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On December 13 2011 22:18 GG2EZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:16 babyToSS wrote:
Saw the whole thing live. What Naniwa did was incredibly immature and unaccetible. I hope he gets some sort of penalty for that. Disrespectful to SC2 fans, Nestea and Gom. I feel sorry for people who paid to watch the tournament and were anticipating the match-up. Yea he was having a bad day but that is no excuse, needs to take a lesson from LiquidHero who stuck it out and gave his best instead of quitting.
Also people need to stop comparing him to Idra. Idra is BM towards cheesy/all in opponents and out-spoken but he never really insults his fans and tourney organizers intentionally like that. In fact if you have ever met him at a live event he one of the more awesome pros always interacting with fans in between games. Korean reaction is totally justified. Would have been better if they had given Stephano a second shot in Group B.
For those in doubt, Naniwa pretty much a moved his probes in Nestea's main and took his hands off the keyboard. Oh my god you have sand in your vagina?
Just really disappointed cause I was one of the many people stupid enough to stay up really late to watch the match.
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On December 13 2011 22:24 Pandinus wrote:
A lot of envy here. QQ more plz.
Remove all humanity from the players and make them robots?
so the only way to show your personality is to act like a little kid?
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On December 13 2011 22:21 ChowChillaCharlie wrote:
Can someone explain this Zlatan thing to me? I don't follow the soccer scene.
Wasn't it Zlatan that filmed and got whatever-the-shot-within-16-metre-is-called in a match.
On December 13 2011 22:20 iamthedave wrote:
I think - for some reason - a lot of people are failing to note something about the Korean mentality.
What is the one line THEY ALL SAY in interviews? 'I hope to give good games'.
I don't consider a games with 5 rax of one base, proxy-stuff, rushed 2-port-banshee and whatever to be good, yet the same guys are gfiving these games.
It's just formal bullshit just as whenever a player leaves the team it's the same boring "didn't fit our style, great man, good luck in future" and how every new team is "an experience to broaden my skill as a player and an oppertunity to become better".
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On December 13 2011 22:24 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:22 Nero. wrote:
i love how people on the one seide always say something like "ESPORT needs to grow", "We need Starcraft on Tv" etc. but then support someone like Naniwa who acts in such an embarassing and childish way He probe rushed. PROBE RUSHED. He didn't matchfix, he didn't hack, he didn't kill somebody, HE A-MOVED his workers! What the heck. This is really, really getting out of hand.
Sry, throwing a game like that is match fixing.
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On December 13 2011 22:25 Sated wrote:
The match meant nothing to either of the players - much like someone forfeiting a 7-8th place game at MLG or something of that ilk.
Something IdrA has done at pretty much every MLG but has never received criticism for.
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On December 13 2011 22:20 synaptik wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:15 Letall wrote:On December 13 2011 22:12 synaptik wrote:On December 13 2011 21:52 LittLeD wrote:
The fact that so many Swedes defend this behaviour is embarrassing to say the least. Naniwa is the worst kind of representative a country could ever have. some of these swedish fans would still defending if he murdered nestea on a livestream We are dedicated fans, much like canadians making exuses for Huk when he loses. That aside I think nani shoulsve at least proxy 2gated. must be great to cheer on someone who doesnt give a shi- about his fans. i envy you.
Yea it is, I cheer for him because he plays very well, not because he's a nice guy.
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On December 13 2011 22:22 Nero. wrote:
i love how people on the one seide always say something like "ESPORT needs to grow", "We need Starcraft on Tv" etc. but then support someone like Naniwa who acts in such an embarassing and childish way
quite the opposite, if you put stuff like this on t.v it WILL DRAW more viewers, who watches t.v for non controversial t.v?
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On December 13 2011 22:19 0ne wrote:
Isn't Coca out of code S for throwing a meaningless game in an online tournament?
Coca purposefully lost an already won game becuase Byun point blank asked him to ( there were screencaps of the chatlog ) so they'd go to a game three . Also coca vs byun was not pointless, if Byun could get post coca and win the tournament he had a shot at a code A spo t( through the monthly playoffs or however they set that up I forget the format ) which coca being code s would not need.
I'm not saying what Nani did is right by any means just clarifying the differences in situations.
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On December 13 2011 22:24 Seronei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:23 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 22:22 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 22:21 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 22:20 Zavior wrote:On December 13 2011 22:20 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 22:19 0ne wrote:
Isn't coca out of code S for throwing meaningless game in an online tournament? byun is also sitting out of gsl for it it wasnt a meaningless game, it was for coda a/s seed wrong. there was no deal for that tournament, nothing was on the line. Eh, there is a code A seed and a 150$ pricepool. Mr. Chae posted himself saying there was nothing on the line as they hadn't worked out a new deal. It wasn't? I seem to remember it being after the announcement of the Code A spot. But ok then. Still 150$.
It was not even the finals of an 150$ online tournament, sounds pretty meaningless for me. He is out of the GSL for that.
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On December 13 2011 21:40 ComusLoM wrote:
This is the first time I have actually felt like the Korean community don't deserve any respect at all.
If it was a Korean losing three times to cheese there would be the same comments but more along the lines of:
LOLOLOL STUPID FOREIGNERS CAN'T BEAT US IN REAL GAMES
They talk about professionalism while showing none themselves on this issue.
Uh, you do Koreans have nothing but the upmost respect for foreigners.... who also show respect.
Koreans WORSHIPPED Guillame Patry. They also respect Huk and recognize him as one of the best (if not the best) Protoss players.
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On December 13 2011 22:21 MayorITC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:12 KeksX wrote:On December 13 2011 22:11 MayorITC wrote:On December 13 2011 22:05 careohx wrote:
"@MVPGuineapig: There's so many people who can't compete in leagues even if they want to.. are you mocking them?"
Those players should get better and qualify. They didn't qualify because they lacked the finances/opportunities to participate in all the tournaments Naniwa has. This is backed up by Naniwa's mediocre record in Korea, showing that Naniwa isn't worthy of a tournament that's supposed to have the best 10 players in the world. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Global_InvitationalYou look like you're desperately trying to justify your overreaction. Just chill. Nobody will judge you, I mean you didn't worker rush, did you? Great! One tournament where he doesn't win! Now let me cite another tournament. It's called the Blizzard Cup (0-4). Oh wait, let me cite another tournament. Code A GSL August (0-2). And yet another tournament... Code A October (0-2). And Code A November (0-2).
MLG Dallas (24-2)
MLG Providence - 2nd
TSL 3 - 2nd
Blizzcon EU invitational - 2nd
Homestory cup 2 & 3 - 2nd/2nd
And as far as being "worhty" of being in this tournament; yes, the results said 0-3 before the Nestea match, but those were hard earned wins for his opponents, EVEN when they were completely unscouted build order win cheeses.
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On December 13 2011 22:21 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:12 synaptik wrote:On December 13 2011 21:52 LittLeD wrote:
The fact that so many Swedes defend this behaviour is embarrassing to say the least. Naniwa is the worst kind of representative a country could ever have. some of these swedish fans would still defending if he murdered nestea on a livestream To be fair its not just the swedish fans, its all the naniwa fanatics, however I imagine that if Naniwa stabbed Nestea on stream the response would look something like this: Show nested quote + After Naniwa stabs Nestea right before a deciding game, a Defensive Naniwa Fan wrote:
Come on guys, I know it was a little extreme, but I think its a legitimate strategy, I mean by making sure Nestea can no longer compete he guarantees himself a spot in the finals. Also, there is nothing in the rules that says that you *can't* brutally eviscerate your opponent to make sure you get a spot in the finals. This is just Naniwa exploring other avenues of play. The Koreans are just upset because he is a foreigner and he made sure Nestea won't win. Get over it, Naniwa FIGHTING!
also, blame GOMTV for not making the booths more secure
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I think if Coca did something like this in a tournament, he will be kicked out of SlayerS immediately.
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You can find numerous other instances of Pro gamers doing something equally as dumb or stupid...
But what makes this special is where it happened.
I'm sure there are a lot of people who poke fun at the pope, I do it sometimes when the opportunity presents it self but there is a time and a place and you certainly DON'T want to do something like that whilst you are in the middle of the Sistine Chapel around people who would get offended by even the smallest off hand joke.
I know in MLG there have been games where people have decided the outcome with an actual coin flip, but this didn't happen at MLG, this happened in Korea during an important match
It is okay to be angry but it is even more important to use your darn brain.
I'm still a fan of Naniwa, but fan support isn't going to get him out of what hes got himself into
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On December 13 2011 22:26 bana wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:24 KeksX wrote:On December 13 2011 22:22 Nero. wrote:
i love how people on the one seide always say something like "ESPORT needs to grow", "We need Starcraft on Tv" etc. but then support someone like Naniwa who acts in such an embarassing and childish way He probe rushed. PROBE RUSHED. He didn't matchfix, he didn't hack, he didn't kill somebody, HE A-MOVED his workers! What the heck. This is really, really getting out of hand. Sry, throwing a game like that is match fixing.
He could've just said "I forfeit". Oh wait, he couldn't.
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Take it as the joke it is. Naniwa doesn't deserve all the shit he gets every day, and we don't know his reasoning behind that either. He probably was frustrated about the previous matches and tired.
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On December 13 2011 22:27 XRuneTH wrote:
I think if Coca did something like this in a tournament, he will be kicked out of SlayerS immediately.
I think you are right
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On December 13 2011 22:24 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:22 Nero. wrote:
i love how people on the one seide always say something like "ESPORT needs to grow", "We need Starcraft on Tv" etc. but then support someone like Naniwa who acts in such an embarassing and childish way He probe rushed. PROBE RUSHED. He didn't matchfix, he didn't hack, he didn't kill somebody, HE A-MOVED his workers! What the heck. This is really, really getting out of hand.
He didn't probe rush, he intentionally threw his workers away . He took his hands off the keyboard and let them die, he didn't micro them or try to win at all. He lost on purpose. You keep trying to make it seem like his thought process was, "Well I'm desperate to win at least one game, so I'll try this and see if it works" when it was more along the lines of "I don't give a shit about this, just gonna a-move my drones and let them die so I can get this over with."
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On December 13 2011 22:28 Blek wrote:
Take it as the joke it is. Naniwa doesn't deserve all the shit he gets every day, and we don't know his reasoning behind that either. He probably was frustrated about the previous matches and tired.
It's pretty obvious that after you lost 3 games and basically all hope and you're still forced to play a game you CAN get quite frustrated.
On December 13 2011 22:29 Slider954 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:24 KeksX wrote:On December 13 2011 22:22 Nero. wrote:
i love how people on the one seide always say something like "ESPORT needs to grow", "We need Starcraft on Tv" etc. but then support someone like Naniwa who acts in such an embarassing and childish way He probe rushed. PROBE RUSHED. He didn't matchfix, he didn't hack, he didn't kill somebody, HE A-MOVED his workers! What the heck. This is really, really getting out of hand. He didn't probe rush, he intentionally threw his workers away . He took his hands off the keyboard and let them die, he didn't micro them or try to win at all. He lost on purpose. You keep trying to make it seem like his thought process was, "Well I'm desperate to win at least one game, so I'll try this and see if it works" when it was more along the lines of "I don't give a shit about this, just gonna a-move my drones and let them die so I can get this over with."
Thats not at all what I'm trying to say.
What he did was nothing else than just forfeiting. And yea it kinda was a dick move but what the heck, people do it all the time with 6 pools, proxy 2gates and everything. Or they simply just forfeit. Naniwa now took his workers to do that and suddenly he is the worst progamer ever.
At least he played WITHIN THE RULES, unlike other pro players who got their pitchforks up against him.
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we can't have players showing feelings in their actions....that'd be bm! wth is wrong with you guys?
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On December 13 2011 22:28 Blek wrote:
Take it as the joke it is. Naniwa doesn't deserve all the shit he gets every day, and we don't know his reasoning behind that either. He probably was frustrated about the previous matches and tired.
I don't think he deserves the self righteous bullshit of the people here, but hes deserves every bit of fury hes getting from the Korean community.
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On December 13 2011 22:26 ComusLoM wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:25 Sated wrote:
The match meant nothing to either of the players - much like someone forfeiting a 7-8th place game at MLG or something of that ilk. Something IdrA has done at pretty much every MLG but has never received criticism for.
The games weren't being televised in the biggest Esports country in the world. He was supporting his team mate. They weren't the center of attention.
Proxy 2 gates or something. What he did was just disrespectful to the tournament.
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On December 13 2011 22:26 chokke wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:21 ChowChillaCharlie wrote:
Can someone explain this Zlatan thing to me? I don't follow the soccer scene. Wasn't it Zlatan that filmed and got whatever-the-shot-within-16-metre-is-called in a match. Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:20 iamthedave wrote:
I think - for some reason - a lot of people are failing to note something about the Korean mentality.
What is the one line THEY ALL SAY in interviews? 'I hope to give good games'.
I don't consider a games with 5 rax of one base, proxy-stuff, rushed 2-port-banshee and whatever to be good, yet the same guys are gfiving these games. It's just formal bullshit just as whenever a player leaves the team it's the same boring "didn't fit our style, great man, good luck in future" and how every new team is "an experience to broaden my skill as a player and an oppertunity to become better".
I don't think calling out the GSL curse in a live interview is just formal stuff.
I can't think of any korean players with Naniwa's attitude or anything approaching it. The closest would be some of the top GSL players pulling wacky builds in matches they don't care about, like in the World Championships when Cella tweeted asking the fans what builds they wanted his players to use. They still play out the games and go for it, though.
What Naniwa did is just foreign - so to speak - to the entire Korean mentality of SC.
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I won't be surprised if he's never going to get invited to a tournament again.
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This is HILLARIOUS! You all know it and love it! I dont think you should compare him with Zlatan. Zlatan is a cheater with no manner, no values, greedy, selfish, stupid son of a bitch.
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Oh my god. Im just gonna leave this discussion now because this is getting way out of hand. Way to many people here that take this too serious and overreact like drama-queens as usual.
NaNiwa didn't murder anyone. He just pulled his probes.
Just waiting for some moron to say: "omg Sweden is such a bad country with evil people they are so bad mannered yada yada yada".
Like a fucking witch hunt.
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On December 13 2011 22:19 jojo311 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:18 Giriath wrote:
Nestea just tweeted, someone translate it! "I was insanely frustrated by my bad performance today(Nestea himself) and the opponent did a more insane job"
Can we get a better translation on this? This isn't really coherent English...
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On December 13 2011 22:25 Clefairy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:23 TraderSC wrote:On December 13 2011 22:22 jojo311 wrote:On December 13 2011 22:21 TraderSC wrote:
translate the latest nestea tweet please:< he said "I was insanely frustrated by my bad performance today(Nestea himself) and the opponent did a more insane job" ty, doesn't seem nestea is too mad about it himself:s No he's definitely mad in Korean.
ok, to me naniwa didn't let anyone down but nestea, so if someone should be mad it's him. Since i think he was looking for revenge. Don't really understand why fans and other gamers have a problem with it.
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On December 13 2011 22:31 dinsim1 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:19 jojo311 wrote:On December 13 2011 22:18 Giriath wrote:
Nestea just tweeted, someone translate it! "I was insanely frustrated by my bad performance today(Nestea himself) and the opponent did a more insane job" Can we get a better translation on this? This isn't really coherent English...
The translation on the OP is pretty accurate.
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Retweet by huk" @LorangerChris Stephano 6pooled cloud twice in a row when he was 0-3 in a game that actually mattered. Nobody gave a shit. Haters gonna hate"
If you are upset now, where you as upset when that happened?
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Have we already forgotten the Nestea/MVP match fixing at Blizzcon? The 13k/6k/200 larva saved up by Nestea and he lets MVP get a pity win after his loss earlier that day... I didn't forget. Double standard. Where was all the drama over that? Why dose the Korean scene love the illusion of competition?
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On December 13 2011 22:28 0ne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:27 XRuneTH wrote:
I think if Coca did something like this in a tournament, he will be kicked out of SlayerS immediately. I think you are right
Poor Coca ^^
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On December 13 2011 22:18 Treziel wrote:
Honestly the reaction from so many people trying to justify this kind of behaviour shows why no foreigners can compete with Koreans. I've never been so angry watching any professional sport before. Obviously most of the fan base are immature idiots who don't take it seriously whatsoever so look: if you think Naniwa's actions here should just be let go or just be passed off as a 'a bit of fun' then you are wrong, just flat out wrong. GOM should remove his S class and ban him from participating for at least 1 season. If a Korean had done this, I am almost positive that even if GOM didn't take action, they would have been kicked out of their team and blacklisted and no other team would ever touch them again no matter how good they are, it is so fucking disrespectful to everyone.
If one Sc2 player not opting to play a completely meaningless match makes you this angry I'd hate to see how you deal with real world problems O_O
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On December 13 2011 22:29 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:26 chokke wrote:On December 13 2011 22:21 ChowChillaCharlie wrote:
Can someone explain this Zlatan thing to me? I don't follow the soccer scene. Wasn't it Zlatan that filmed and got whatever-the-shot-within-16-metre-is-called in a match. On December 13 2011 22:20 iamthedave wrote:
I think - for some reason - a lot of people are failing to note something about the Korean mentality.
What is the one line THEY ALL SAY in interviews? 'I hope to give good games'.
I don't consider a games with 5 rax of one base, proxy-stuff, rushed 2-port-banshee and whatever to be good, yet the same guys are gfiving these games. It's just formal bullshit just as whenever a player leaves the team it's the same boring "didn't fit our style, great man, good luck in future" and how every new team is "an experience to broaden my skill as a player and an oppertunity to become better". I don't think calling out the GSL curse in a live interview is just formal stuff.
What?
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On December 13 2011 22:31 dinsim1 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:19 jojo311 wrote:On December 13 2011 22:18 Giriath wrote:
Nestea just tweeted, someone translate it! "I was insanely frustrated by my bad performance today(Nestea himself) and the opponent did a more insane job" Can we get a better translation on this? This isn't really coherent English...
I was so pissed off becase of these games I felt like I was going crazy. But after getting myself back together, my opponent goes and does something even crazier....
via Seeker in the Blizzard Cup thread
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dont ppl throw games like that all the time ? mlg etc.
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On December 13 2011 22:32 aderum wrote:
Retweet by huk" @LorangerChris Stephano 6pooled cloud twice in a row when he was 0-3 in a game that actually mattered. Nobody gave a shit. Haters gonna hate"
If you are upset now, where you as upset when that happened?
he didn't drone rush?
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On December 13 2011 22:33 sopas wrote:
dont ppl throw games like that all the time ? mlg etc.
Forfeiting =/= throwing games
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On December 13 2011 22:33 mireath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:33 sopas wrote:
dont ppl throw games like that all the time ? mlg etc. Forfeiting =/= throwing games
People do both all the time.
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On December 13 2011 22:27 0ne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:24 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 22:23 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 22:22 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 22:21 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 22:20 Zavior wrote:On December 13 2011 22:20 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 22:19 0ne wrote:
Isn't coca out of code S for throwing meaningless game in an online tournament? byun is also sitting out of gsl for it it wasnt a meaningless game, it was for coda a/s seed wrong. there was no deal for that tournament, nothing was on the line. Eh, there is a code A seed and a 150$ pricepool. Mr. Chae posted himself saying there was nothing on the line as they hadn't worked out a new deal. It wasn't? I seem to remember it being after the announcement of the Code A spot. But ok then. Still 150$. It was not even the finals of an 150$ online tournament, sounds pretty meaningless for me. He is out of the GSL for that.
@MVPGuineapig: There's so many people who can't compete in leagues even if they want to.. are you mocking them?
Those 150$ online touraments are where the people who can't compete in higher tournaments are competing. But you seems to think it's just fine for them to get mocked?
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On December 13 2011 22:32 Clefairy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:31 dinsim1 wrote:On December 13 2011 22:19 jojo311 wrote:On December 13 2011 22:18 Giriath wrote:
Nestea just tweeted, someone translate it! "I was insanely frustrated by my bad performance today(Nestea himself) and the opponent did a more insane job" Can we get a better translation on this? This isn't really coherent English... The translation on the OP is pretty accurate.
Ah, thanks very much, it wasn't there the last time I refreshed.
Edit: Also thx to Femari for another translation.
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Sounds like he lost a lot of respect in Korea.
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On December 13 2011 22:30 kalismist wrote:
This is HILLARIOUS! You all know it and love it! I dont think you should compare him with Zlatan. Zlatan is a cheater with no manner, no values, greedy, selfish, stupid son of a bitch.
so basically naniwa just needs to cheat to cement the comparison.
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On December 13 2011 21:53 Kappa09 wrote:
I don't get the attitude of the people here. Try to make a real world comparison to main stream sports just to see how wrong Naniwa was. How would you feel if the Green Bay Packers were 0-12 (obviously not true, so can't offend anyone) in the season and obviously had no chance of making the playoffs/superbowl, and then they went on to purposely lose their remaining games by sitting on the sidelines or just screwing around in front of thousands of live spectators and millions of spectators watching on television. Their fans and football fans alike would be absolutely outraged and this would be completely unacceptable. Do you think it's fair for everyone involved with the team or game that they weren't shown a true game like they were promised?
There is no difference between what Naniwa did and the analogy. It doesn't matter that the game meant nothing. Naniwa still spat in all of our faces and everyone involved with the Blizzard Cup and basically said he doesn't give a fuck about anyone except for himself and the money/championships he is trying to win.
I can't believe some of you actually find this action acceptable, and it shows that we are still very far from being considered a true spectator sport.
Well said. Perfectly on point.
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On December 13 2011 22:33 leo23 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:32 aderum wrote:
Retweet by huk" @LorangerChris Stephano 6pooled cloud twice in a row when he was 0-3 in a game that actually mattered. Nobody gave a shit. Haters gonna hate"
If you are upset now, where you as upset when that happened? he didn't drone rush?
No but he 6pooled a terran (insta loss) twice, which made an other player (cant remember who) nearly drop out of the tournament.
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On December 13 2011 22:32 TheSubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:18 Treziel wrote:
Honestly the reaction from so many people trying to justify this kind of behaviour shows why no foreigners can compete with Koreans. I've never been so angry watching any professional sport before. Obviously most of the fan base are immature idiots who don't take it seriously whatsoever so look: if you think Naniwa's actions here should just be let go or just be passed off as a 'a bit of fun' then you are wrong, just flat out wrong. GOM should remove his S class and ban him from participating for at least 1 season. If a Korean had done this, I am almost positive that even if GOM didn't take action, they would have been kicked out of their team and blacklisted and no other team would ever touch them again no matter how good they are, it is so fucking disrespectful to everyone. If one Sc2 player not opting to play a completely meaningless match makes you this angry I'd hate to see how you deal with real world problems O_O
hahahahahahahahaha i just laughed my ass off! <3
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On December 13 2011 22:27 Ponchey wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:21 MayorITC wrote:On December 13 2011 22:12 KeksX wrote:On December 13 2011 22:11 MayorITC wrote:On December 13 2011 22:05 careohx wrote:
"@MVPGuineapig: There's so many people who can't compete in leagues even if they want to.. are you mocking them?"
Those players should get better and qualify. They didn't qualify because they lacked the finances/opportunities to participate in all the tournaments Naniwa has. This is backed up by Naniwa's mediocre record in Korea, showing that Naniwa isn't worthy of a tournament that's supposed to have the best 10 players in the world. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Global_InvitationalYou look like you're desperately trying to justify your overreaction. Just chill. Nobody will judge you, I mean you didn't worker rush, did you? Great! One tournament where he doesn't win! Now let me cite another tournament. It's called the Blizzard Cup (0-4). Oh wait, let me cite another tournament. Code A GSL August (0-2). And yet another tournament... Code A October (0-2). And Code A November (0-2). MLG Dallas (24-2) MLG Providence - 2nd TSL 3 - 2nd Blizzcon EU invitational - 2nd Homestory cup 2 & 3 - 2nd/2nd And as far as being "worhty" of being in this tournament; yes, the results said 0-3 before the Nestea match, but those were hard earned wins for his opponents, EVEN when they were completely unscouted build order win cheeses.
How many of the tournaments you listed include the other "9 best players in the world" from the Blizzard Cup? Maybe you should read my original post. Let me quote it once more for you: "this is backed up by Naniwa's mediocre record in Korea." So you respond by listing a bunch of tournaments where only a handful of Koreans participated (if even that since MLG Dallas had none).
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On December 13 2011 22:35 nvs. wrote:
Sounds like he lost a lot of respect in Korea.
yeah, wonder what the guys over at startale/qxg think about this._.
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On December 13 2011 22:35 synaptik wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:30 kalismist wrote:
This is HILLARIOUS! You all know it and love it! I dont think you should compare him with Zlatan. Zlatan is a cheater with no manner, no values, greedy, selfish, stupid son of a bitch. so basically naniwa just needs to cheat to cement the comparison.
You deserve a temp ban for this imho, but I'm no mod.
Thats it. I'm leaving this thread. It's just so irrational and people won't look at this in any different way. Minds are set up. Good luck with your witch hunt, guys. I tried.
Hopefully this will be forgotten within the next few days, like everything else.
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So many people talk about respect, maturity and professionalism yet fail to show any of it themselves. Hypocrites much?
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Naniwa will always be Naniwa and idra will always be idra get used and over it butthurt maggots )))
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If you want to complain, go complain to GOM for even deciding to play that game. Not saying NaNiWa did the correct thing, but the game was so entirely pointless that it's stupid.
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On December 13 2011 22:21 MayorITC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:12 KeksX wrote:On December 13 2011 22:11 MayorITC wrote:On December 13 2011 22:05 careohx wrote:
"@MVPGuineapig: There's so many people who can't compete in leagues even if they want to.. are you mocking them?"
Those players should get better and qualify. They didn't qualify because they lacked the finances/opportunities to participate in all the tournaments Naniwa has. This is backed up by Naniwa's mediocre record in Korea, showing that Naniwa isn't worthy of a tournament that's supposed to have the best 10 players in the world. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Global_InvitationalYou look like you're desperately trying to justify your overreaction. Just chill. Nobody will judge you, I mean you didn't worker rush, did you? Great! One tournament where he doesn't win! Now let me cite another tournament. It's called the Blizzard Cup (0-4). Oh wait, let me cite another tournament. Code A GSL August (0-2). And yet another tournament... Code A October (0-2). And Code A November (0-2).
I don't see your point. He lost a whole lot of tournaments and then he won one (and against some of the toughest competition he's faced). Meanwhile the players who didn't qualify lost a whole lot of tournaments and didn't win any at all.
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I don't know what Naniwa is thinking... It's like he gets a chance to further himself in the eyes of fans and just pisses it away every time. Good job on Col getting rid of him before they started to look bad.
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On December 13 2011 22:37 nforce wrote:
So many people talk about respect, maturity and professionalism yet fail to show any of it themselves. Hypocrites much?
+1 my friend.
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On December 13 2011 22:38 Insurrectionist wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:21 MayorITC wrote:On December 13 2011 22:12 KeksX wrote:On December 13 2011 22:11 MayorITC wrote:On December 13 2011 22:05 careohx wrote:
"@MVPGuineapig: There's so many people who can't compete in leagues even if they want to.. are you mocking them?"
Those players should get better and qualify. They didn't qualify because they lacked the finances/opportunities to participate in all the tournaments Naniwa has. This is backed up by Naniwa's mediocre record in Korea, showing that Naniwa isn't worthy of a tournament that's supposed to have the best 10 players in the world. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Global_InvitationalYou look like you're desperately trying to justify your overreaction. Just chill. Nobody will judge you, I mean you didn't worker rush, did you? Great! One tournament where he doesn't win! Now let me cite another tournament. It's called the Blizzard Cup (0-4). Oh wait, let me cite another tournament. Code A GSL August (0-2). And yet another tournament... Code A October (0-2). And Code A November (0-2). I don't see your point. He lost a whole lot of tournaments and then he won one (and against some of the toughest competition he's faced). Meanwhile the players who didn't qualify lost a whole lot of tournaments and didn't win any at all.
He fails when he has to prepare. He is easily dissected.
On December 13 2011 22:37 nforce wrote:
So many people talk about respect, maturity and professionalism yet fail to show any of it themselves. Hypocrites much?
There is nothing to respect other than his SC2 skills.
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On December 13 2011 22:35 jyisvip wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:53 Kappa09 wrote:
I don't get the attitude of the people here. Try to make a real world comparison to main stream sports just to see how wrong Naniwa was. How would you feel if the Green Bay Packers were 0-12 (obviously not true, so can't offend anyone) in the season and obviously had no chance of making the playoffs/superbowl, and then they went on to purposely lose their remaining games by sitting on the sidelines or just screwing around in front of thousands of live spectators and millions of spectators watching on television. Their fans and football fans alike would be absolutely outraged and this would be completely unacceptable. Do you think it's fair for everyone involved with the team or game that they weren't shown a true game like they were promised?
There is no difference between what Naniwa did and the analogy. It doesn't matter that the game meant nothing. Naniwa still spat in all of our faces and everyone involved with the Blizzard Cup and basically said he doesn't give a fuck about anyone except for himself and the money/championships he is trying to win.
I can't believe some of you actually find this action acceptable, and it shows that we are still very far from being considered a true spectator sport. Well said. Perfectly on point.
I guess neither of you have heard of the Pro Bowl for the NFL or the All Star game for MLB... they are endlessly made fun of. Nobody even considers them a game. Many top players don't even participate for all kinds of reasons. The ones that do never push them self. They are literally doing exactly what you mentioned, "sitting on the sidelines" or "screwing around". They bring their family's and video cameras. You can see them getting autographs from other players... These "entertainment" games are a joke to the typical fan. This is what happens when you have a competitive sport and then throw in the occasional meaningless game.
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On December 13 2011 22:32 TheSubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:18 Treziel wrote:
Honestly the reaction from so many people trying to justify this kind of behaviour shows why no foreigners can compete with Koreans. I've never been so angry watching any professional sport before. Obviously most of the fan base are immature idiots who don't take it seriously whatsoever so look: if you think Naniwa's actions here should just be let go or just be passed off as a 'a bit of fun' then you are wrong, just flat out wrong. GOM should remove his S class and ban him from participating for at least 1 season. If a Korean had done this, I am almost positive that even if GOM didn't take action, they would have been kicked out of their team and blacklisted and no other team would ever touch them again no matter how good they are, it is so fucking disrespectful to everyone. If one Sc2 player not opting to play a completely meaningless match makes you this angry I'd hate to see how you deal with real world problems O_O
I said I've never been this angry watching a professional sport before. I'm only a little bit angry, I don't tend to get riled up over stuff that doesn't affect me much, but this kind of thing actually does affect me, because I want to see more foreigners in Korea competing with the best (and I want to see eSports get more legitimacy in the west also) and actions like this make both of these scenarios more unlikely - why bother inviting foreign players when this is how they act. The reason I'd like to see GOM take action is not anything I have against Naniwa (although I'm certainly not a fan), it's to stop future foreign players who go over to Korea embarassing the foreign community. Going 0-3 against the best in the world is not embarassing, throwing a game against one of the top Korean zergs because you're angry that you lost absolutely is.
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Big LOL at everyone who thinks Koreans are so pure and respectful. I gues you dont know about them so much.
And comments from FXO Choya and MVP twitter are same unprofessional as Naniwa.
Naniwa could do anything he wanted in that game as long as he didnt break any official rules.
Grow up SC2 community and stop trying to act like you are more holy than Pope.
Nestea practiced so hard yet he loses his 3 games i guess it didn't do so good for him after all.
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im gona do this if im ever pro in a tournament im already out of and its a pointless match just to piss u all off
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On December 13 2011 22:36 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:35 synaptik wrote:On December 13 2011 22:30 kalismist wrote:
This is HILLARIOUS! You all know it and love it! I dont think you should compare him with Zlatan. Zlatan is a cheater with no manner, no values, greedy, selfish, stupid son of a bitch. so basically naniwa just needs to cheat to cement the comparison. You deserve a temp ban for this imho, but I'm no mod. Thats it. I'm leaving this thread. It's just so irrational and people won't look at this in any different way. Minds are set up. Good luck with your witch hunt, guys. I tried. Hopefully this will be forgotten within the next few days, like everything else.
this is exactly how i feel when i see all these posts defending such unprofessionalism
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On December 13 2011 22:32 TheSubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:18 Treziel wrote:
Honestly the reaction from so many people trying to justify this kind of behaviour shows why no foreigners can compete with Koreans. I've never been so angry watching any professional sport before. Obviously most of the fan base are immature idiots who don't take it seriously whatsoever so look: if you think Naniwa's actions here should just be let go or just be passed off as a 'a bit of fun' then you are wrong, just flat out wrong. GOM should remove his S class and ban him from participating for at least 1 season. If a Korean had done this, I am almost positive that even if GOM didn't take action, they would have been kicked out of their team and blacklisted and no other team would ever touch them again no matter how good they are, it is so fucking disrespectful to everyone. If one Sc2 player not opting to play a completely meaningless match makes you this angry I'd hate to see how you deal with real world problems O_O
exactly what i was thinking
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Naniwa is a douchbad. He said he disliked CoL because they value fanbase as much as results. He clearly said that he only cares to win. So fans are useless to him. And he just prove it.
He doesn't deserve any of his match until round of 4 to be cast since he does not care about viewership, fans or entertainment.
He does not deserve any fan either.
Not to mention the lack of sport spirit and fairplay.
No excuse for him, he has always been like that. Even if some known people tried to save his public image.
I'm more than eager to see him fail in the next tournament to see him quit the game.
DR;TL : It's about sport spirit. The proscene lives from viewership, through publicity. Even if I profondly dislike this model entertainment is very important right now. Without going like WWF, this match could have been fun to watch knowning the pride at stake. He's just shown he has none. How can we claim to have a sport-like (esport) game, if we show people behaving like that ? Shame on him.
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On December 13 2011 22:36 MayorITC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:27 Ponchey wrote:On December 13 2011 22:21 MayorITC wrote:On December 13 2011 22:12 KeksX wrote:On December 13 2011 22:11 MayorITC wrote:On December 13 2011 22:05 careohx wrote:
"@MVPGuineapig: There's so many people who can't compete in leagues even if they want to.. are you mocking them?"
Those players should get better and qualify. They didn't qualify because they lacked the finances/opportunities to participate in all the tournaments Naniwa has. This is backed up by Naniwa's mediocre record in Korea, showing that Naniwa isn't worthy of a tournament that's supposed to have the best 10 players in the world. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Global_InvitationalYou look like you're desperately trying to justify your overreaction. Just chill. Nobody will judge you, I mean you didn't worker rush, did you? Great! One tournament where he doesn't win! Now let me cite another tournament. It's called the Blizzard Cup (0-4). Oh wait, let me cite another tournament. Code A GSL August (0-2). And yet another tournament... Code A October (0-2). And Code A November (0-2). MLG Dallas (24-2) MLG Providence - 2nd TSL 3 - 2nd Blizzcon EU invitational - 2nd Homestory cup 2 & 3 - 2nd/2nd And as far as being "worhty" of being in this tournament; yes, the results said 0-3 before the Nestea match, but those were hard earned wins for his opponents, EVEN when they were completely unscouted build order win cheeses. How many of the tournaments you listed include the other "9 best players in the world" from the Blizzard Cup? Maybe you should read my original post. Let me quote it once more for you: "this is backed up by Naniwa's mediocre record in Korea." So you respond by listing a bunch of tournaments where only a handful of Koreans participated (if even that since MLG Dallas had none).
They way NaNiwa played @ MLG Providence makes him worthy of playing in both Blizzard Cup and Code S. And if you watched these games that naniwa lost it was extremely close and NaNiwa held on for a really long time.
I guess you just hate him and cant stand the fact that he's a very talented player.
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this is what happens when kids like naniwa instead of being punished for their immature behaviour in past events were being praised and essentialy encouraged to continue acting like that, because ''it is good for e-sports''
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On December 13 2011 22:43 Merlimoo wrote:
Naniwa is a douchbad. He said he disliked CoL because they value fanbase as much as results. He clearly said that he only cares to win. So fans are useless to him. And he just prove it.
He doesn't deserve any of his match until round of 4 to be cast since he does not care about viewership, fans or entertainment.
He does not deserve any fan either.
Not to mention the lack of sport spirit and fairplay.
No excuse for him, he has always been like that. Even if some known people tried to save his public image.
I'm more than eager to see him fail in the next tournament to see him quit the game.
DR;TL : It's about sport spirit. The proscene lives from viewership, through publicity. Even if I profondly dislike this model entertainment is very important right now. Without going like WWF, this match could have been fun to watch knowning the pride at stake. He's just shown he has none. How can we claim to have a sport-like (esport) game, if we show people behaving like that ? Shame on him.
He never ever said that fans are useless to him. You fucking liar. Don't come here and spread lies.
You are exactly the kind of person i can imagine living in 1500-century screaming "burn that witch". Grow the fuck up.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On December 13 2011 22:36 TraderSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:35 nvs. wrote:
Sounds like he lost a lot of respect in Korea. yeah, wonder what the guys over at startale/qxg think about this._.
My advice to QXG would be to get him some fucking PR training or SOMETHING before he ruins his career even further.
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On December 13 2011 22:23 OMGKEI wrote:
Wow I really think the mvp team hates Naniwa. Never took him seriously when he was there and now this.
Maybe they had there reasons ? Who knows what's going on there.
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On December 13 2011 22:44 Fred Flintstone wrote:
this is what happens when kids like naniwa instead of being punished for their immature behaviour in past events were being praised and essentialy encouraged to continue acting like that, because ''it is good for e-sports''
And why exactly he should be punished ? Did he break any rules ?
It is almost comparable to Boxing match when 1 player knows out 2nd one in first 30 seconds of fight.
Will you punish him for ending fight to soon ?
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He would be long gone if he wasn't such a good player...I think the guy has some serious issues.
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On December 13 2011 22:44 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:36 MayorITC wrote:On December 13 2011 22:27 Ponchey wrote:On December 13 2011 22:21 MayorITC wrote:On December 13 2011 22:12 KeksX wrote:On December 13 2011 22:11 MayorITC wrote:On December 13 2011 22:05 careohx wrote:
"@MVPGuineapig: There's so many people who can't compete in leagues even if they want to.. are you mocking them?"
Those players should get better and qualify. They didn't qualify because they lacked the finances/opportunities to participate in all the tournaments Naniwa has. This is backed up by Naniwa's mediocre record in Korea, showing that Naniwa isn't worthy of a tournament that's supposed to have the best 10 players in the world. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Global_InvitationalYou look like you're desperately trying to justify your overreaction. Just chill. Nobody will judge you, I mean you didn't worker rush, did you? Great! One tournament where he doesn't win! Now let me cite another tournament. It's called the Blizzard Cup (0-4). Oh wait, let me cite another tournament. Code A GSL August (0-2). And yet another tournament... Code A October (0-2). And Code A November (0-2). MLG Dallas (24-2) MLG Providence - 2nd TSL 3 - 2nd Blizzcon EU invitational - 2nd Homestory cup 2 & 3 - 2nd/2nd And as far as being "worhty" of being in this tournament; yes, the results said 0-3 before the Nestea match, but those were hard earned wins for his opponents, EVEN when they were completely unscouted build order win cheeses. How many of the tournaments you listed include the other "9 best players in the world" from the Blizzard Cup? Maybe you should read my original post. Let me quote it once more for you: "this is backed up by Naniwa's mediocre record in Korea." So you respond by listing a bunch of tournaments where only a handful of Koreans participated (if even that since MLG Dallas had none). They way NaNiwa played @ MLG Providence makes him worthy of playing in both Blizzard Cup and Code S. And if you watched these games that naniwa lost it was extremely close and NaNiwa held on for a really long time. I guess you just hate him and cant stand the fact that he's a very talented player.
Actually I think Naniwa's repeated failings in Code A make him very suspect. I think the GSL format is bad for him, and he flourishes in an environment where there isn't as much preparation. It seems like anytime people can look at his style and get ready for it he gets crushed.
That's the thing in GSL, if you have a definite style or crutches, people have plenty of time to custom build something to wreck you a la MVP/Stephano.
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On December 13 2011 22:44 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:36 MayorITC wrote:On December 13 2011 22:27 Ponchey wrote:On December 13 2011 22:21 MayorITC wrote:On December 13 2011 22:12 KeksX wrote:On December 13 2011 22:11 MayorITC wrote:On December 13 2011 22:05 careohx wrote:
"@MVPGuineapig: There's so many people who can't compete in leagues even if they want to.. are you mocking them?"
Those players should get better and qualify. They didn't qualify because they lacked the finances/opportunities to participate in all the tournaments Naniwa has. This is backed up by Naniwa's mediocre record in Korea, showing that Naniwa isn't worthy of a tournament that's supposed to have the best 10 players in the world. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Global_InvitationalYou look like you're desperately trying to justify your overreaction. Just chill. Nobody will judge you, I mean you didn't worker rush, did you? Great! One tournament where he doesn't win! Now let me cite another tournament. It's called the Blizzard Cup (0-4). Oh wait, let me cite another tournament. Code A GSL August (0-2). And yet another tournament... Code A October (0-2). And Code A November (0-2). MLG Dallas (24-2) MLG Providence - 2nd TSL 3 - 2nd Blizzcon EU invitational - 2nd Homestory cup 2 & 3 - 2nd/2nd And as far as being "worhty" of being in this tournament; yes, the results said 0-3 before the Nestea match, but those were hard earned wins for his opponents, EVEN when they were completely unscouted build order win cheeses. How many of the tournaments you listed include the other "9 best players in the world" from the Blizzard Cup? Maybe you should read my original post. Let me quote it once more for you: "this is backed up by Naniwa's mediocre record in Korea." So you respond by listing a bunch of tournaments where only a handful of Koreans participated (if even that since MLG Dallas had none). They way NaNiwa played @ MLG Providence makes him worthy of playing in both Blizzard Cup and Code S. And if you watched these games that naniwa lost it was extremely close and NaNiwa held on for a really long time. I guess you just hate him and cant stand the fact that he's a very talented player.
Shouldn't it be his play in the GSL be the indicator of whether or not he should be in GSL? I mean GSL isn't MLG. MLG is 3 days. GSL is over a month. He cannot play in GSL because he doesn't come up with diverse strategies to beat his opponent. He is terrible at preparing for his opponents.
He's highly talented but he's not good enough to be in GSL with his prep skills.
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On December 13 2011 22:36 MayorITC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:27 Ponchey wrote:On December 13 2011 22:21 MayorITC wrote:On December 13 2011 22:12 KeksX wrote:On December 13 2011 22:11 MayorITC wrote:On December 13 2011 22:05 careohx wrote:
"@MVPGuineapig: There's so many people who can't compete in leagues even if they want to.. are you mocking them?"
Those players should get better and qualify. They didn't qualify because they lacked the finances/opportunities to participate in all the tournaments Naniwa has. This is backed up by Naniwa's mediocre record in Korea, showing that Naniwa isn't worthy of a tournament that's supposed to have the best 10 players in the world. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Global_InvitationalYou look like you're desperately trying to justify your overreaction. Just chill. Nobody will judge you, I mean you didn't worker rush, did you? Great! One tournament where he doesn't win! Now let me cite another tournament. It's called the Blizzard Cup (0-4). Oh wait, let me cite another tournament. Code A GSL August (0-2). And yet another tournament... Code A October (0-2). And Code A November (0-2). MLG Dallas (24-2) MLG Providence - 2nd TSL 3 - 2nd Blizzcon EU invitational - 2nd Homestory cup 2 & 3 - 2nd/2nd And as far as being "worhty" of being in this tournament; yes, the results said 0-3 before the Nestea match, but those were hard earned wins for his opponents, EVEN when they were completely unscouted build order win cheeses. How many of the tournaments you listed include the other "9 best players in the world" from the Blizzard Cup? Maybe you should read my original post. Let me quote it once more for you: "this is backed up by Naniwa's mediocre record in Korea." So you respond by listing a bunch of tournaments where only a handful of Koreans participated (if even that since MLG Dallas had none).
let's see...
MLG Providence:
Leenock
Nestea
Mvp
MC
MMA
DongRaeGu
Hero
Homestory Cup 3:
MC
Stephano
TSL 3:
Nestea
Mvp
MC
Oh, wait a minute. That's everyone in Blizzard Cup, except Polt!
(EDIT: Forgot Hero)
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On December 13 2011 22:46 Nadarath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:44 Fred Flintstone wrote:
this is what happens when kids like naniwa instead of being punished for their immature behaviour in past events were being praised and essentialy encouraged to continue acting like that, because ''it is good for e-sports'' And why exactly he should be punished ? Did he break any rules ? It is almost comparable to Boxing match when 1 player knows out 2nd one in first 30 seconds of fight. Will you punish him for ending fight to soon ?
WHAT?!? It's not even close to comparable because both fighters actually are trying to WIN THE FIGHT. Nani didn't try, he A-moved his drones and took his hands off the keyboard. No micro, no attempt to keep them alive, he let them die. Not even close to what you said.
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On December 13 2011 22:36 KeksX wrote:
You deserve a temp ban for this imho, but I'm no mod.
Thats it. I'm leaving this thread. It's just so irrational and people won't look at this in any different way. Minds are set up. Good luck with your witch hunt, guys. I tried.
Hopefully this will be forgotten within the next few days, like everything else.
You've been stubborn all the time and claimed his cheese was not any better than a 6pool or a proxy 2gate so maybe you should not be talking about others being stubborn, especially when Naniwa made it so obvious.
As for forgetting about this, people still have not forgotten his BM past. He also embarrassed his new clan so I wouldn't count on this being forgotten anytime soon, it's probably going to have consequences for him.
You can kinda pull this off if you have a good reputation and/or do this off-stage in a non-casted game but definitely not with Naniwa's reputation, in Korea, with it being live-casted in front of thousands of watchers, other players and casters. This will not be forgotten quickly for quite a few people.
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On December 13 2011 22:46 Nadarath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:44 Fred Flintstone wrote:
this is what happens when kids like naniwa instead of being punished for their immature behaviour in past events were being praised and essentialy encouraged to continue acting like that, because ''it is good for e-sports'' And why exactly he should be punished ? Did he break any rules ? It is almost comparable to Boxing match when 1 player knows out 2nd one in first 30 seconds of fight. Will you punish him for ending fight to soon ?
It's not the same at all. Naniwa chose to basicly forfeit the game. There are sponsors etc. behind him that try to get their team/product out there. He has a responsibility towards those people to do the "job" hes being paid for. I also feel really bad for NesTea, apparently he had been practising till late at night yesterday to be prepared for this match (on his birthday).
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In my opinion this will have little to no effect on Naniwas true fan base. He's always basically been like this and his fans are his fans for his play not his personality. People need to get over him being like this imo, hes not going to change.
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You guys need to lay off Naniwa. It's not like this was the only game of Starcraft you're going to get to watch this week. IdrA leaves a game he's winning and everyone laughs and says "Oh that's our IdrA" and then Naniwa ends a game that doesn't matter with a win and people start talking about revoking his code S and how shameful it is. Just chill.
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I think it's about time to pull out the good ol' phrase, "Maybe you're right."
It seems that the community is so divided about what is acceptable and what is not acceptable when it comes to games like this. Empathy guys, empathy.
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On December 13 2011 22:43 Merlimoo wrote:
Naniwa is a douchbad. He said he disliked CoL because they value fanbase as much as results. He clearly said that he only cares to win. So fans are useless to him. And he just prove it.
He doesn't deserve any of his match until round of 4 to be cast since he does not care about viewership, fans or entertainment.
He does not deserve any fan either.
Not to mention the lack of sport spirit and fairplay.
No excuse for him, he has always been like that. Even if some known people tried to save his public image.
I'm more than eager to see him fail in the next tournament to see him quit the game.
DR;TL : It's about sport spirit. The proscene lives from viewership, through publicity. Even if I profondly dislike this model entertainment is very important right now. Without going like WWF, this match could have been fun to watch knowning the pride at stake. He's just shown he has none. How can we claim to have a sport-like (esport) game, if we show people behaving like that ? Shame on him.
you clearly don't have any idea of what kind of stressing situation it is to play at a LAN tourney......
To loose like that is extremely frustrating and its not exactly like you think straight at Offline events.
So since you don't know what you are talking about, so stfu plz??
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this thread is literally swedes defending naniwa vs everyone else hahaha
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I really think it comes down to us asking ourselves do these players owe us?
If they do, then this was to some, a slap in the face, but to others, a light-hearted joke of a game.
I don't think you can really criticize him too much tbh, tho i personally disagree with his choice; I mean come on, it was NesTea's birthday!
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Embarrassing , but also a laugh out loud moment. People will remember Naniwa was in this tournament. ^^
Someone really needs to find you Naniwa a PR person. Just a someone to inform him what you can and cannot do if you want to become a marketable brand and make some money.
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On December 13 2011 22:49 zdfgucker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:36 KeksX wrote:
You deserve a temp ban for this imho, but I'm no mod.
Thats it. I'm leaving this thread. It's just so irrational and people won't look at this in any different way. Minds are set up. Good luck with your witch hunt, guys. I tried.
Hopefully this will be forgotten within the next few days, like everything else. You've been stubborn all the time and claimed his cheese was not any better than a 6pool or a proxy 2gate so maybe you should not be talking about others being stubborn, especially when Naniwa made it so obvious. As for forgetting about this, people still have not forgotten his BM past. He also embarrassed his new clan so I wouldn't count on this being forgotten anytime soon, it's probably going to have consequences for him. You can kinda pull this off if you have a good reputation and/or do this off-stage in a non-casted game but definitely not with Naniwa's reputation, in Korea, with it being live-casted in front of thousands of watchers, other players and casters. This will not be forgotten quickly for quite a few people.
oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL.
oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons.
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On December 13 2011 22:43 Merlimoo wrote:
Naniwa is a douchbad. He said he disliked CoL because they value fanbase as much as results. He clearly said that he only cares to win. So fans are useless to him. And he just prove it.
He doesn't deserve any of his match until round of 4 to be cast since he does not care about viewership, fans or entertainment.
He does not deserve any fan either.
Not to mention the lack of sport spirit and fairplay.
No excuse for him, he has always been like that. Even if some known people tried to save his public image.
I'm more than eager to see him fail in the next tournament to see him quit the game.
DR;TL : It's about sport spirit. The proscene lives from viewership, through publicity. Even if I profondly dislike this model entertainment is very important right now. Without going like WWF, this match could have been fun to watch knowning the pride at stake. He's just shown he has none. How can we claim to have a sport-like (esport) game, if we show people behaving like that ? Shame on him.
very well put. some people just dont listen to reason.
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On December 13 2011 22:49 Slider954 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:46 Nadarath wrote:On December 13 2011 22:44 Fred Flintstone wrote:
this is what happens when kids like naniwa instead of being punished for their immature behaviour in past events were being praised and essentialy encouraged to continue acting like that, because ''it is good for e-sports'' And why exactly he should be punished ? Did he break any rules ? It is almost comparable to Boxing match when 1 player knows out 2nd one in first 30 seconds of fight. Will you punish him for ending fight to soon ? WHAT?!? It's not even close to comparable because both fighters actually are trying to WIN THE FIGHT. Nani didn't try, he A-moved his drones and took his hands off the keyboard. No micro, no attempt to keep them alive, he let them die. Not even close to what you said.
This. It was a disgrace and I'm furious about the lack of respect shown towards everyone who was looking forward to an entertaining game - it deffo could've been since neither of them had anything to lose.
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he shouldnt have done this , a proxy gateway or 4 gate was better , this was as the same as forfeiting a game.... GomTV should warn him and take measures if he does something like this again.. This is the way naniwa is , he likes to do bad stuff on live games like idra...
And i really think he did this because people wanted to see him play Nestea , but he felt this match was meaningless..
Naniwa change the attitude or at least do a proxy gateway , this is funny but so wrong..
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On December 13 2011 22:43 Merlimoo wrote:
Naniwa is a douchbad. He said he disliked CoL because they value fanbase as much as results. He clearly said that he only cares to win. So fans are useless to him. And he just prove it.
He doesn't deserve any of his match until round of 4 to be cast since he does not care about viewership, fans or entertainment.
He does not deserve any fan either.
Not to mention the lack of sport spirit and fairplay.
No excuse for him, he has always been like that. Even if some known people tried to save his public image.
I'm more than eager to see him fail in the next tournament to see him quit the game.
DR;TL : It's about sport spirit. The proscene lives from viewership, through publicity. Even if I profondly dislike this model entertainment is very important right now. Without going like WWF, this match could have been fun to watch knowning the pride at stake. He's just shown he has none. How can we claim to have a sport-like (esport) game, if we show people behaving like that ? Shame on him.
His FANS shall be the people who SUPPORT his ALL-I-DO-IS-WIN mentality.
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On December 13 2011 22:51 Petninja wrote:
You guys need to lay off Naniwa. It's not like this was the only game of Starcraft you're going to get to watch this week. IdrA leaves a game he's winning and everyone laughs and says "Oh that's our IdrA" and then Naniwa ends a game that doesn't matter with a win and people start talking about revoking his code S and how shameful it is. Just chill.
IdrA doesn't throw the games he leaves early. That's a mental issue in which he thinks he's lost and overreacts.
Naniwa just sent all his probes and didn't micro them and took his hands off the keyboard and mouse.
There's a difference in actually trying and throwing a game.
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oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL.
oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons.
It's not the fact that he proberushed. It's a cheese that can sometimes work. But a-moving the probes and then taking your hands off your keyboard in protest is not even close to being okay.
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On December 13 2011 22:40 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:37 nforce wrote:
So many people talk about respect, maturity and professionalism yet fail to show any of it themselves. Hypocrites much? +1 my friend.
Sorry bro, I don't think you understand what's what when it comes to roles in this business. We are the fans, the consumers in this industry. We can say what we want. Fans aren't held to the same standard of respect, maturity, and professionalism that the players are. It's the same with the media. In this case, a lot of our starcraft media comes from people within the scene, like those admins on TL.net and community figures posting in forums like these.
And ya, MVPKeen going LOLOL probably isn't too classy, but honestly this type of behavior is a joke. In any sport, your colleagues are going to look down upon the type of behavior Naniwa displayed. It's really shameful.
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On December 13 2011 22:52 andaylin wrote:
this thread is literally swedes defending naniwa vs everyone else hahaha
Don't have anything to do with me being a swede. Im just a naniwa fan.
It's just pathetic how much people are overreacting on this. Just like a mob of bullyers who jumps on the bandwagon to pick on 1 person.
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On December 13 2011 22:52 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:49 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 22:36 KeksX wrote:
You deserve a temp ban for this imho, but I'm no mod.
Thats it. I'm leaving this thread. It's just so irrational and people won't look at this in any different way. Minds are set up. Good luck with your witch hunt, guys. I tried.
Hopefully this will be forgotten within the next few days, like everything else. You've been stubborn all the time and claimed his cheese was not any better than a 6pool or a proxy 2gate so maybe you should not be talking about others being stubborn, especially when Naniwa made it so obvious. As for forgetting about this, people still have not forgotten his BM past. He also embarrassed his new clan so I wouldn't count on this being forgotten anytime soon, it's probably going to have consequences for him. You can kinda pull this off if you have a good reputation and/or do this off-stage in a non-casted game but definitely not with Naniwa's reputation, in Korea, with it being live-casted in front of thousands of watchers, other players and casters. This will not be forgotten quickly for quite a few people. oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL. oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons.
The key word being Seoul. I take it you don't have any idea how serious Koreans take Starcraft, do you? There's a saying that fits perfectly: When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Think about it.
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The points I'm about to try to make is not about Naniwa, but about the way esports tournaments are structured.
If you have ever played tournaments yourself, invested most of your life into a game, have great expectations for you and your team and then when you get eliminated you know it feels horrible. At that point, it is not just a game you play, it is your life. When you lose and get eliminated you get depressed, you just don't want to play. You could argue that you should play for the spectators and the fans. If your favourite football team is eliminated you still expect them to play with honor and dignity in their last game even if it doesn't mean anything. I don't think that you can compare esports with other sports like football, for one reason:
They don't expect you to play 10 minutes after being eliminated. Any other sport have atleast a day before they have to play again.
You are at that point emotionally crushed, the dissapointment is almost impossible to describe. You need time to work it through. From my experience playing in various CS tournaments, if you give us an hour we'll be sort of OK, give us four and we'll be playing reasonably, give us a day and we will be pumped and ready to go and put on a good match. We need time to decompress, talk it through and be alone atleast for a while. Just because there isn't a huge physical strain which is the reason footballers gets days off between games, there still is a mental strain on the players which is never taken into consideration. All your hopes and expectations just died, it is not a great feeling.
Give us 10-20 minutes, our minds will not be in the game, there will be no passion, just utter dissapointment. You are not playing to win, you are just going through the motions and you just want to leave. I've said it countless times to people around me, but no one wants to listen. Tournaments needs to be longer with more time between each game or they just need skip playing pointless matches with teams that has been elminated all together (which is often the case).
Throwing the game is not good and you can NEVER defend that as it is just a pure waste of everyones time, but you can also never expect a good show or that the players are playing with passion unless they are given time to clear their heads. I don't understand why this is such a mystery for a lot of people and why they get so surprised when stuff like Naniwa - Nestea happens.
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On December 13 2011 22:54 KibbelzNbits wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:43 Merlimoo wrote:
Naniwa is a douchbad. He said he disliked CoL because they value fanbase as much as results. He clearly said that he only cares to win. So fans are useless to him. And he just prove it.
He doesn't deserve any of his match until round of 4 to be cast since he does not care about viewership, fans or entertainment.
He does not deserve any fan either.
Not to mention the lack of sport spirit and fairplay.
No excuse for him, he has always been like that. Even if some known people tried to save his public image.
I'm more than eager to see him fail in the next tournament to see him quit the game.
DR;TL : It's about sport spirit. The proscene lives from viewership, through publicity. Even if I profondly dislike this model entertainment is very important right now. Without going like WWF, this match could have been fun to watch knowning the pride at stake. He's just shown he has none. How can we claim to have a sport-like (esport) game, if we show people behaving like that ? Shame on him. His FANS shall be the people who SUPPORT his ALL-I-DO-IS-WIN mentality.
You should say : ALL-I-DO-IS-WANT-TO-WIN mentality, since he rarely does so...
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Oh yea and one more thing, the people that say 'you don't know what it's like he was so frustrated about losing etc.' part of being a professional in any sport is maintaining composure even when you lose. Losing is not an excuse to throw a tantrum like a little 3 year old child 'I won't play' and cross your arms - you play your best, try to win, when it's all over and the camera is off you you can go and rage as much as you want and work it out of your system. I'm sure anyone who has played sport to any kind of decent level has been in a situation where they wish they could just not play, but sometimes you just have to work through it, when you are 7-0 down with 30 mins left to play you don't just walk off the pitch or start scoring own goals on purpose, you close the game out come what may.
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On December 13 2011 22:50 Niazger wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:46 Nadarath wrote:On December 13 2011 22:44 Fred Flintstone wrote:
this is what happens when kids like naniwa instead of being punished for their immature behaviour in past events were being praised and essentialy encouraged to continue acting like that, because ''it is good for e-sports'' And why exactly he should be punished ? Did he break any rules ? It is almost comparable to Boxing match when 1 player knows out 2nd one in first 30 seconds of fight. Will you punish him for ending fight to soon ? It's not the same at all. Naniwa chose to basicly forfeit the game. There are sponsors etc. behind him that try to get their team/product out there. He has a responsibility towards those people to do the "job" hes being paid for. I also feel really bad for NesTea, apparently he had been practising till late at night yesterday to be prepared for this match (on his birthday).
How do you know what are Naniwa responsibilities in Quantic ? Have you read official contract ?
I can bet that he is beeing paid to win matches that actually matter in tournament. I don't think he is obliged to win games that matter to Nestea fans ?
Maybe i'm bad person or something but i actually think it is kind of funny that he didnt give Nestea chance to fight. He messed up his mind and might be able to have advantage in a game vs Nestea that will actually have meaning.
I wonder why no one is alarmed that Choya will freely name one of players "bastard" and its ok. I bed if Naniwa would call Choya bastard - internet would just blow.
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On December 13 2011 22:55 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:52 andaylin wrote:
this thread is literally swedes defending naniwa vs everyone else hahaha Don't have anything to do with me being a swede. Im just a naniwa fan. It's just pathetic how much people are overreacting on this. Just like a mob of bullyers who jumps on the bandwagon to pick on 1 person.
I'm not a Swede and I'm not upset with Naniwa.
Sounds like a bumper sticker... but really, I do think people are overreacting.
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On December 13 2011 22:55 SnePe wrote:
The points I'm about to try to make is not about Naniwa, but about the way esports tournaments are structured.
If you have ever played tournaments yourself, invested most of your life into a game, have great expectations for you and your team and then when you get eliminated you know it feels horrible. At that point, it is not just a game you play, it is your life. When you lose and get eliminated you get depressed, you just don't want to play. You could argue that you should play for the spectators and the fans. If your favourite football team is eliminated you still expect them to play with honor and dignity in their last game even if it doesn't mean anything. I don't think that you can compare esports with other sports like football, for one reason:
They don't expect you to play 10 minutes after being eliminated. Any other sport have atleast a day before they have to play again.
You are at that point emotionally crushed, the dissapointment is almost impossible to describe. You need time to work it through. From my experience playing in various CS tournaments, if you give us an hour we'll be sort of OK, give us four and we'll be playing reasonably, give us a day and we will be pumped and ready to go and put on a good match. We need time to decompress, talk it through and be alone atleast for a while. Just because there isn't a huge physical strain which is the reason footballers gets days off between games, there still is a mental strain on the players which is never taken into consideration. All your hopes and expectations just died, it is not a great feeling.
Give us 10-20 minutes, our minds will not be in the game, there will be no passion, just utter dissapointment. You are not playing to win, you are just going through the motions and you just want to leave. I've said it countless times to people around me, but no one wants to listen. Tournaments needs to be longer with more time between each game or they just need skip playing pointless matches with teams that has been elminated all together (which is often the case).
Throwing the game is not good and you can NEVER defend that as it is just a pure waste of everyones time, but you can also never expect a good show or that the players are playing with passion unless they are given time to clear their heads. I don't understand why this is such a mystery for a lot of people and why they get so surprised when stuff like Naniwa - Nestea happens.
I think you make a good point here.
During pools, results should not be disclosed to players that have not finished they match. It will solve the throwing game to help a friend problem too.
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On December 13 2011 22:54 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:51 Petninja wrote:
You guys need to lay off Naniwa. It's not like this was the only game of Starcraft you're going to get to watch this week. IdrA leaves a game he's winning and everyone laughs and says "Oh that's our IdrA" and then Naniwa ends a game that doesn't matter with a win and people start talking about revoking his code S and how shameful it is. Just chill. IdrA doesn't throw the games he leaves early. That's a mental issue in which he thinks he's lost and overreacts. Naniwa just sent all his probes and didn't micro them and took his hands off the keyboard and mouse. There's a difference in actually trying and throwing a game.
There's no way you can defend Idra's behavior after what he did in TL Open a while ago.
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I didn't see this in the OP, figured I'd list it here.
"coLNaniwa Johan Lucchesi
i really practiced my 7 probe rush. i should have won that game ez!"
http://twitter.com/#!/coLNaniwa
LOLOLO
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On December 13 2011 22:54 Vond wrote:Show nested quote +
oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL.
oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons.
It's not the fact that he proberushed. It's a cheese that can sometimes work. But a-moving the probes and then taking your hands off your keyboard in protest is not even close to being okay.
"is not even close to being okay"
lol. NaNiwa can do whatever he wants dude. And people can bitch about it how much they want. Atleast he is being himself and not some phony. He has guts.
You make it sound like he did something really bad ^^ wich he didn't.
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On December 13 2011 22:58 Zeaket wrote:I didn't see this in the OP, figured I'd list it here. "coLNaniwa Johan Lucchesi i really practiced my 7 probe rush. i should have won that game ez!" http://twitter.com/#!/coLNaniwaLOLOLO
thats a fake
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I honestly have no issues with Naniwa throwing away the game. You see it all the time in real sports. If anything he did us all a favor and ended a game quickly where both sides were probably not in a competitive mood.
There are so many examples in basketball why teams throw games or make a mockery of the game. Teams who have no chance in making the playoffs suddenly have their star player "injured" and they pretty much purposely lose to get a better seeding in the draft. Similarly on the flip side when a team is already guaranteed a high playoff spot you see them not play their starters in order to rest them for later.
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Naniwa wouldnt even be able to bring an entertaining match. His mind was set on forfeit before the match and he forfeited. He saw that the match would not help him towards his goals in any way so he ignored the match and set his mind on the next challenge.
Some ppl will always hate.
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On December 13 2011 22:58 Merlimoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:55 SnePe wrote:
The points I'm about to try to make is not about Naniwa, but about the way esports tournaments are structured.
If you have ever played tournaments yourself, invested most of your life into a game, have great expectations for you and your team and then when you get eliminated you know it feels horrible. At that point, it is not just a game you play, it is your life. When you lose and get eliminated you get depressed, you just don't want to play. You could argue that you should play for the spectators and the fans. If your favourite football team is eliminated you still expect them to play with honor and dignity in their last game even if it doesn't mean anything. I don't think that you can compare esports with other sports like football, for one reason:
They don't expect you to play 10 minutes after being eliminated. Any other sport have atleast a day before they have to play again.
You are at that point emotionally crushed, the dissapointment is almost impossible to describe. You need time to work it through. From my experience playing in various CS tournaments, if you give us an hour we'll be sort of OK, give us four and we'll be playing reasonably, give us a day and we will be pumped and ready to go and put on a good match. We need time to decompress, talk it through and be alone atleast for a while. Just because there isn't a huge physical strain which is the reason footballers gets days off between games, there still is a mental strain on the players which is never taken into consideration. All your hopes and expectations just died, it is not a great feeling.
Give us 10-20 minutes, our minds will not be in the game, there will be no passion, just utter dissapointment. You are not playing to win, you are just going through the motions and you just want to leave. I've said it countless times to people around me, but no one wants to listen. Tournaments needs to be longer with more time between each game or they just need skip playing pointless matches with teams that has been elminated all together (which is often the case).
Throwing the game is not good and you can NEVER defend that as it is just a pure waste of everyones time, but you can also never expect a good show or that the players are playing with passion unless they are given time to clear their heads. I don't understand why this is such a mystery for a lot of people and why they get so surprised when stuff like Naniwa - Nestea happens.
I think you make a good point here. During pools, results should not be disclosed to players that have not finished they match. It will solve the throwing game to help a friend problem too.
And that conclusion leads to one thing - make a better format of tournament. One that each game matters. Either players fight for seeding. Or it is Single Elimination.
Dont give players meaningless games and they will fight as hard as they can.
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Anyway, sticking with the original topic of this thread, I'm curious to see more twitter responses from the Korean community.
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it took long time for ppl (to some it might take forever) to learn the word "respect"
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NaNiwa is now my favourite player. I honestly can't wait until the next time he faces NesTea...
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On December 13 2011 22:54 KibbelzNbits wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:43 Merlimoo wrote:
Naniwa is a douchbad. He said he disliked CoL because they value fanbase as much as results. He clearly said that he only cares to win. So fans are useless to him. And he just prove it.
He doesn't deserve any of his match until round of 4 to be cast since he does not care about viewership, fans or entertainment.
He does not deserve any fan either.
Not to mention the lack of sport spirit and fairplay.
No excuse for him, he has always been like that. Even if some known people tried to save his public image.
I'm more than eager to see him fail in the next tournament to see him quit the game.
DR;TL : It's about sport spirit. The proscene lives from viewership, through publicity. Even if I profondly dislike this model entertainment is very important right now. Without going like WWF, this match could have been fun to watch knowning the pride at stake. He's just shown he has none. How can we claim to have a sport-like (esport) game, if we show people behaving like that ? Shame on him. His FANS shall be the people who SUPPORT his ALL-I-DO-IS-WIN mentality.
Naniwa's in huge trouble then given he just went 0-4
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On December 13 2011 22:52 andaylin wrote:
this thread is literally swedes defending naniwa vs everyone else hahaha
In the end, I think the only thing really defending Naniwa is his skills. I like him because he 's incredibly good at what he does, which is playing Starcraft 2, not hosting shows. he and SaSe makes me want to switch to Protoss, because it's just mesmerizing to see them at their best.
I see a lot of the same things in other great athletes. They often have that winning mentality that makes nothing else matter. They may be awkward or uncharismatic or downright BM like John McEnroe. but ofttimes these are the people who push themselves more than anyone else, and succeeds because of it. At the alpine world championships in Sweden 2007, Swedish skier Anja Paerson won 3 out of 5 disciplines, and took third place in one. And when she got that third place, she broke the pole over her knee. She wasn't happy about the bronze, because she had narrowly missed the gold due to a mistake. She comes across as grumpy and uncharismatic in interviews, but still I keep cheering for her, because of her skill.
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Naniwa's tweets:
@QuanticNaNi johan lucchesi
apparently people got upset when i probe rushed nestea, the game was pointless and it couldnt change anything in the tournament.
@QuanticNaNi johan lucchesi
i can understand if fans got upset but neither of us had anything on stake and wouldnt play our best. i am sry if people expected more tho
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On December 13 2011 22:59 shortsteve wrote:
I honestly have no issues with Naniwa throwing away the game. You see it all the time in real sports. If anything he did us all a favor and ended a game quickly where both sides were probably not in a competitive mood.
There are so many examples in basketball why teams throw games or make a mockery of the game. Teams who have no chance in making the playoffs suddenly have their star player "injured" and they pretty much purposely lose to get a better seeding in the draft. Similarly on the flip side when a team is already guaranteed a high playoff spot you see them not play their starters in order to rest them for later.
what u are describing is more like not using your best strategy cause you re out or alrady in the playoffs but what naniwa did is more like playing a game of basketball and your whole team isnt moving at all or something like that. u dont do that
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@TSLJYP: LOLOLOLOLOL x 140 characters
I don't believe I need to add much more than this. I think Nani needs to get a grip. Sure the games didn't "matter" but come on guy.
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On December 13 2011 22:55 SnePe wrote:
The points I'm about to try to make is not about Naniwa, but about the way esports tournaments are structured.
If you have ever played tournaments yourself, invested most of your life into a game, have great expectations for you and your team and then when you get eliminated you know it feels horrible. At that point, it is not just a game you play, it is your life. When you lose and get eliminated you get depressed, you just don't want to play. You could argue that you should play for the spectators and the fans. If your favourite football team is eliminated you still expect them to play with honor and dignity in their last game even if it doesn't mean anything. I don't think that you can compare esports with other sports like football, for one reason:
They don't expect you to play 10 minutes after being eliminated. Any other sport have atleast a day before they have to play again.
You are at that point emotionally crushed, the dissapointment is almost impossible to describe. You need time to work it through. From my experience playing in various CS tournaments, if you give us an hour we'll be sort of OK, give us four and we'll be playing reasonably, give us a day and we will be pumped and ready to go and put on a good match. We need time to decompress, talk it through and be alone atleast for a while. Just because there isn't a huge physical strain which is the reason footballers gets days off between games, there still is a mental strain on the players which is never taken into consideration. All your hopes and expectations just died, it is not a great feeling.
Give us 10-20 minutes, our minds will not be in the game, there will be no passion, just utter dissapointment. You are not playing to win, you are just going through the motions and you just want to leave. I've said it countless times to people around me, but no one wants to listen. Tournaments needs to be longer with more time between each game or they just need skip playing pointless matches with teams that has been elminated all together (which is often the case).
Throwing the game is not good and you can NEVER defend that as it is just a pure waste of everyones time, but you can also never expect a good show or that the players are playing with passion unless they are given time to clear their heads. I don't understand why this is such a mystery for a lot of people and why they get so surprised when stuff like Naniwa - Nestea happens.
First legitimate point defending Naniwa. You're right actually. Thinking about it, Gomtv should have never made them play it out. Even the prize pool was the same regardless of whether you finished 4th of 5th.
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I really want to know what Naniwa did in the MVP-house. There is always two sides.
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On December 13 2011 22:55 zdfgucker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:52 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 22:49 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 22:36 KeksX wrote:
You deserve a temp ban for this imho, but I'm no mod.
Thats it. I'm leaving this thread. It's just so irrational and people won't look at this in any different way. Minds are set up. Good luck with your witch hunt, guys. I tried.
Hopefully this will be forgotten within the next few days, like everything else. You've been stubborn all the time and claimed his cheese was not any better than a 6pool or a proxy 2gate so maybe you should not be talking about others being stubborn, especially when Naniwa made it so obvious. As for forgetting about this, people still have not forgotten his BM past. He also embarrassed his new clan so I wouldn't count on this being forgotten anytime soon, it's probably going to have consequences for him. You can kinda pull this off if you have a good reputation and/or do this off-stage in a non-casted game but definitely not with Naniwa's reputation, in Korea, with it being live-casted in front of thousands of watchers, other players and casters. This will not be forgotten quickly for quite a few people. oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL. oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons. The key word being Seoul. I take it you don't have any idea how serious Koreans take Starcraft, do you? There's a saying that fits perfectly: When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Think about it.
Well then maybe the koreans should think about the fact that NaNiwa is a foreigner and not acustomed to their culture etc. Have a little understanding maybe?
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On December 13 2011 22:59 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:54 Vond wrote:
oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL.
oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons.
It's not the fact that he proberushed. It's a cheese that can sometimes work. But a-moving the probes and then taking your hands off your keyboard in protest is not even close to being okay. "is not even close to being okay" lol. NaNiwa can do whatever he wants dude. And people can bitch about it how much they want. Atleast he is being himself and not some phony. He has guts. You make it sound like he did something really bad ^^ wich he didn't.
Throwing a game isn't bad?
Someone get sAviOr we need to get this information to him!
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On December 13 2011 23:03 Kiyo. wrote:Naniwa's tweets: Show nested quote +@QuanticNaNi johan lucchesi
apparently people got upset when i probe rushed nestea, the game was pointless and it couldnt change anything in the tournament.
@QuanticNaNi johan lucchesi
i can understand if fans got upset but neither of us had anything on stake and wouldnt play our best. i am sry if people expected more tho
"coL"Naniwa ? its not him LOL
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On December 13 2011 23:05 hybridsc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:55 SnePe wrote:
The points I'm about to try to make is not about Naniwa, but about the way esports tournaments are structured.
If you have ever played tournaments yourself, invested most of your life into a game, have great expectations for you and your team and then when you get eliminated you know it feels horrible. At that point, it is not just a game you play, it is your life. When you lose and get eliminated you get depressed, you just don't want to play. You could argue that you should play for the spectators and the fans. If your favourite football team is eliminated you still expect them to play with honor and dignity in their last game even if it doesn't mean anything. I don't think that you can compare esports with other sports like football, for one reason:
They don't expect you to play 10 minutes after being eliminated. Any other sport have atleast a day before they have to play again.
You are at that point emotionally crushed, the dissapointment is almost impossible to describe. You need time to work it through. From my experience playing in various CS tournaments, if you give us an hour we'll be sort of OK, give us four and we'll be playing reasonably, give us a day and we will be pumped and ready to go and put on a good match. We need time to decompress, talk it through and be alone atleast for a while. Just because there isn't a huge physical strain which is the reason footballers gets days off between games, there still is a mental strain on the players which is never taken into consideration. All your hopes and expectations just died, it is not a great feeling.
Give us 10-20 minutes, our minds will not be in the game, there will be no passion, just utter dissapointment. You are not playing to win, you are just going through the motions and you just want to leave. I've said it countless times to people around me, but no one wants to listen. Tournaments needs to be longer with more time between each game or they just need skip playing pointless matches with teams that has been elminated all together (which is often the case).
Throwing the game is not good and you can NEVER defend that as it is just a pure waste of everyones time, but you can also never expect a good show or that the players are playing with passion unless they are given time to clear their heads. I don't understand why this is such a mystery for a lot of people and why they get so surprised when stuff like Naniwa - Nestea happens.
First legitimate point defending Naniwa. You're right actually. Thinking about it, Gomtv should have never made them play it out. Even the prize pool was the same regardless of whether you finished 4th of 5th.
I don't see Korean players doing this, and I've seen several in this situation. Nestea sure wasn't going to.
In fact I've seen Koreans fight to the last in matches 'that don't mean anything' because they'd rather have the fans remember then losing 1-3 than 0-4, and at least be able to walk away with their heads held high.
I can respect that attitude. I can't respect Naniwa's.
On December 13 2011 23:06 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:55 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 22:52 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 22:49 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 22:36 KeksX wrote:
You deserve a temp ban for this imho, but I'm no mod.
Thats it. I'm leaving this thread. It's just so irrational and people won't look at this in any different way. Minds are set up. Good luck with your witch hunt, guys. I tried.
Hopefully this will be forgotten within the next few days, like everything else. You've been stubborn all the time and claimed his cheese was not any better than a 6pool or a proxy 2gate so maybe you should not be talking about others being stubborn, especially when Naniwa made it so obvious. As for forgetting about this, people still have not forgotten his BM past. He also embarrassed his new clan so I wouldn't count on this being forgotten anytime soon, it's probably going to have consequences for him. You can kinda pull this off if you have a good reputation and/or do this off-stage in a non-casted game but definitely not with Naniwa's reputation, in Korea, with it being live-casted in front of thousands of watchers, other players and casters. This will not be forgotten quickly for quite a few people. oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL. oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons. The key word being Seoul. I take it you don't have any idea how serious Koreans take Starcraft, do you? There's a saying that fits perfectly: When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Think about it. Well then maybe the koreans should think about the fact that NaNiwa is a foreigner and not acustomed to their culture etc. Have a little understanding maybe?
He's been in 4 GSLs. If he's still so clueless about the gaming culture of the game he's a professional in after 4 months then the fault is entirely his. Especially since he's been in team houses with them.
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People rip on Nani without understanding the context of the situation.
Neither of them were going to advance, and I think Nani would rather just spend the time to think about everything that went wrong and practice, rather than draggin it on, playing a half-assed game.
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On December 13 2011 23:06 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:59 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 22:54 Vond wrote:
oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL.
oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons.
It's not the fact that he proberushed. It's a cheese that can sometimes work. But a-moving the probes and then taking your hands off your keyboard in protest is not even close to being okay. "is not even close to being okay" lol. NaNiwa can do whatever he wants dude. And people can bitch about it how much they want. Atleast he is being himself and not some phony. He has guts. You make it sound like he did something really bad ^^ wich he didn't. Throwing a game isn't bad? Someone get sAviOr we need to get this information to him!
I think you are crossing over bit too much. Did Naniwa bet any money and gained something from it ? Prove it then use this argument. Otherwise you are just making bad and rude accusations.
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On December 13 2011 23:06 JohnMatrix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:03 Kiyo. wrote:Naniwa's tweets: @QuanticNaNi johan lucchesi
apparently people got upset when i probe rushed nestea, the game was pointless and it couldnt change anything in the tournament.
@QuanticNaNi johan lucchesi
i can understand if fans got upset but neither of us had anything on stake and wouldnt play our best. i am sry if people expected more tho
"coL"Naniwa ? its not him LOL
where does it say "coL"? Naniwa's twitter is Quantic.
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On December 13 2011 23:08 Gooshnads wrote:
People rip on Nani without understanding the context of the situation.
Neither of them were going to advance, and I think Nani would rather just spend the time to think about everything that went wrong and practice, rather than draggin it on, playing a half-assed game.
Naniwa agreed to the terms of the tournament. He knew that all the games were going to be played. If he can't even stick to the terms that he agreed to then Naniwa has some issues.
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On December 13 2011 22:59 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:54 Vond wrote:
oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL.
oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons.
It's not the fact that he proberushed. It's a cheese that can sometimes work. But a-moving the probes and then taking your hands off your keyboard in protest is not even close to being okay. "is not even close to being okay" lol. NaNiwa can do whatever he wants dude. And people can bitch about it how much they want. Atleast he is being himself and not some phony. He has guts. You make it sound like he did something really bad ^^ wich he didn't.
Actually DUDE, he can't do whatever he wants. Not when he is signed to a pro team that has sponsors that shell out money to send these players to tourneys and to represent them in the best possible way. You want to say he doesn't have an obligation to the fans, fine. But he does to the team and the sponsors. If he doesn't want to be beholden to anybody at all. he can start paying for everything himself, until then he team expects him to act like a professional and this wasn't it.
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Seems like TL borrowed some pitchforks from /r/starcraft.
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On December 13 2011 23:06 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:59 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 22:54 Vond wrote:
oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL.
oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons.
It's not the fact that he proberushed. It's a cheese that can sometimes work. But a-moving the probes and then taking your hands off your keyboard in protest is not even close to being okay. "is not even close to being okay" lol. NaNiwa can do whatever he wants dude. And people can bitch about it how much they want. Atleast he is being himself and not some phony. He has guts. You make it sound like he did something really bad ^^ wich he didn't. Throwing a game isn't bad? Someone get sAviOr we need to get this information to him!
To NaNiwa... the game was pointless. He had played 3 close games and ended up 0-3. Not to happy about that i guess considering he has a huge winner mentality.
Throwing a game that is pointless isn't that bad in my opinion no. Nestea was out aswell. That game was just a waste of time. NaNiwa had the right to do that since the game didn't matter anyway.
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On December 13 2011 23:10 Nadarath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:06 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 22:59 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 22:54 Vond wrote:
oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL.
oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons.
It's not the fact that he proberushed. It's a cheese that can sometimes work. But a-moving the probes and then taking your hands off your keyboard in protest is not even close to being okay. "is not even close to being okay" lol. NaNiwa can do whatever he wants dude. And people can bitch about it how much they want. Atleast he is being himself and not some phony. He has guts. You make it sound like he did something really bad ^^ wich he didn't. Throwing a game isn't bad? Someone get sAviOr we need to get this information to him! I think you are crossing over bit too much. Did Naniwa bet any money and gained something from it ? Prove it then use this argument. Otherwise you are just making bad and rude accusations.
Did my post say that Naniwa match-fixed for personal profit at all?
If so point it out to me cause all I see is a sarcastic remark showing how stupid it is to say throwing a game is okay.
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Man I'm going to check DCinside now LOL
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On December 13 2011 23:10 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:08 Gooshnads wrote:
People rip on Nani without understanding the context of the situation.
Neither of them were going to advance, and I think Nani would rather just spend the time to think about everything that went wrong and practice, rather than draggin it on, playing a half-assed game. Naniwa agreed to the terms of the tournament. He knew that all the games were going to be played. If he can't even stick to the terms that he agreed to then Naniwa has some issues.
Well he did play his game. Unless playing got some different definition in yours vocabulary.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37011 Posts
That game was just........ no words can describe it :/
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On December 13 2011 23:06 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:55 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 22:52 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 22:49 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 22:36 KeksX wrote:
You deserve a temp ban for this imho, but I'm no mod.
Thats it. I'm leaving this thread. It's just so irrational and people won't look at this in any different way. Minds are set up. Good luck with your witch hunt, guys. I tried.
Hopefully this will be forgotten within the next few days, like everything else. You've been stubborn all the time and claimed his cheese was not any better than a 6pool or a proxy 2gate so maybe you should not be talking about others being stubborn, especially when Naniwa made it so obvious. As for forgetting about this, people still have not forgotten his BM past. He also embarrassed his new clan so I wouldn't count on this being forgotten anytime soon, it's probably going to have consequences for him. You can kinda pull this off if you have a good reputation and/or do this off-stage in a non-casted game but definitely not with Naniwa's reputation, in Korea, with it being live-casted in front of thousands of watchers, other players and casters. This will not be forgotten quickly for quite a few people. oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL. oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons. The key word being Seoul. I take it you don't have any idea how serious Koreans take Starcraft, do you? There's a saying that fits perfectly: When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Think about it. Well then maybe the koreans should think about the fact that NaNiwa is a foreigner and not acustomed to their culture etc. Have a little understanding maybe?
because koreans, hosting a korean tournament, in korea, needs to cater to the whims of an unprofessional and self-centered foreign player
furthermore hes lived in koreas for months in a team house. if he still doesnt get it the onus is on him. funny how all the other foreigners training over there gets along with koreans?
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I understand fans want to see a good game, but from Naniwa's perspective I totally understand. You have just lost 3 games, you are tired and upset at your performance. There is no way you are going to play at your top level or anywhere close to it. The match doesn't matter and is a waste of time and physical and mental energy, let's just go home and practice for the next event and try to make our fans happy when we win that, not some match that doesn't matter when I am on tilt.
At least that is what I see, sure he could have been a bit more graceful about it but I understand not wanting to play the game.
(proxy two gate would have been a much better option though ;p)
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On December 13 2011 23:12 Nadarath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:10 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 23:08 Gooshnads wrote:
People rip on Nani without understanding the context of the situation.
Neither of them were going to advance, and I think Nani would rather just spend the time to think about everything that went wrong and practice, rather than draggin it on, playing a half-assed game. Naniwa agreed to the terms of the tournament. He knew that all the games were going to be played. If he can't even stick to the terms that he agreed to then Naniwa has some issues. Well he did play his game. Unless playing got some different definition in yours vocabulary.
I used to think Idra and Huk fanboys were absurd, Nani's fanboys, however, are changing my opinion on "Dumb fanboys."
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On December 13 2011 23:08 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:05 hybridsc wrote:On December 13 2011 22:55 SnePe wrote:
The points I'm about to try to make is not about Naniwa, but about the way esports tournaments are structured.
If you have ever played tournaments yourself, invested most of your life into a game, have great expectations for you and your team and then when you get eliminated you know it feels horrible. At that point, it is not just a game you play, it is your life. When you lose and get eliminated you get depressed, you just don't want to play. You could argue that you should play for the spectators and the fans. If your favourite football team is eliminated you still expect them to play with honor and dignity in their last game even if it doesn't mean anything. I don't think that you can compare esports with other sports like football, for one reason:
They don't expect you to play 10 minutes after being eliminated. Any other sport have atleast a day before they have to play again.
You are at that point emotionally crushed, the dissapointment is almost impossible to describe. You need time to work it through. From my experience playing in various CS tournaments, if you give us an hour we'll be sort of OK, give us four and we'll be playing reasonably, give us a day and we will be pumped and ready to go and put on a good match. We need time to decompress, talk it through and be alone atleast for a while. Just because there isn't a huge physical strain which is the reason footballers gets days off between games, there still is a mental strain on the players which is never taken into consideration. All your hopes and expectations just died, it is not a great feeling.
Give us 10-20 minutes, our minds will not be in the game, there will be no passion, just utter dissapointment. You are not playing to win, you are just going through the motions and you just want to leave. I've said it countless times to people around me, but no one wants to listen. Tournaments needs to be longer with more time between each game or they just need skip playing pointless matches with teams that has been elminated all together (which is often the case).
Throwing the game is not good and you can NEVER defend that as it is just a pure waste of everyones time, but you can also never expect a good show or that the players are playing with passion unless they are given time to clear their heads. I don't understand why this is such a mystery for a lot of people and why they get so surprised when stuff like Naniwa - Nestea happens.
First legitimate point defending Naniwa. You're right actually. Thinking about it, Gomtv should have never made them play it out. Even the prize pool was the same regardless of whether you finished 4th of 5th. I don't see Korean players doing this, and I've seen several in this situation. Nestea sure wasn't going to. In fact I've seen Koreans fight to the last in matches 'that don't mean anything' because they'd rather have the fans remember then losing 1-3 than 0-4, and at least be able to walk away with their heads held high. I can respect that attitude. I can't respect Naniwa's. Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:06 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 22:55 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 22:52 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 22:49 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 22:36 KeksX wrote:
You deserve a temp ban for this imho, but I'm no mod.
Thats it. I'm leaving this thread. It's just so irrational and people won't look at this in any different way. Minds are set up. Good luck with your witch hunt, guys. I tried.
Hopefully this will be forgotten within the next few days, like everything else. You've been stubborn all the time and claimed his cheese was not any better than a 6pool or a proxy 2gate so maybe you should not be talking about others being stubborn, especially when Naniwa made it so obvious. As for forgetting about this, people still have not forgotten his BM past. He also embarrassed his new clan so I wouldn't count on this being forgotten anytime soon, it's probably going to have consequences for him. You can kinda pull this off if you have a good reputation and/or do this off-stage in a non-casted game but definitely not with Naniwa's reputation, in Korea, with it being live-casted in front of thousands of watchers, other players and casters. This will not be forgotten quickly for quite a few people. oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL. oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons. The key word being Seoul. I take it you don't have any idea how serious Koreans take Starcraft, do you? There's a saying that fits perfectly: When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Think about it. Well then maybe the koreans should think about the fact that NaNiwa is a foreigner and not acustomed to their culture etc. Have a little understanding maybe? He's been in 4 GSLs. If he's still so clueless about the gaming culture of the game he's a professional in after 4 months then the fault is entirely his. Especially since he's been in team houses with them.
Don't you think there's a huge difference of having lived in korea like a half year compared to a korean who has lived there all his life? I think he needs more time to actually soak in everything. It's not easy as a foreigner to come to another country and be expected to know everything about a countries customs and stuff @ only half a year.
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On December 13 2011 23:10 Mortal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:06 JohnMatrix wrote:On December 13 2011 23:03 Kiyo. wrote:Naniwa's tweets: @QuanticNaNi johan lucchesi
apparently people got upset when i probe rushed nestea, the game was pointless and it couldnt change anything in the tournament.
@QuanticNaNi johan lucchesi
i can understand if fans got upset but neither of us had anything on stake and wouldnt play our best. i am sry if people expected more tho
"coL"Naniwa ? its not him LOL where does it say "coL"? Naniwa's twitter is Quantic.
http://twitter.com/#!/coLNaniwa
guy edited dont know why
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On December 13 2011 23:12 Nadarath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:10 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 23:08 Gooshnads wrote:
People rip on Nani without understanding the context of the situation.
Neither of them were going to advance, and I think Nani would rather just spend the time to think about everything that went wrong and practice, rather than draggin it on, playing a half-assed game. Naniwa agreed to the terms of the tournament. He knew that all the games were going to be played. If he can't even stick to the terms that he agreed to then Naniwa has some issues. Well he did play his game. Unless playing got some different definition in yours vocabulary.
He loaded a game up. I think saying that he played it is a bit of a stretch.
He drag clicked, pressed a, and clicked somewhere else.
That's two keypresses less than just typing gg and quitting out.
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On December 13 2011 23:15 JohnMatrix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:10 Mortal wrote:On December 13 2011 23:06 JohnMatrix wrote:On December 13 2011 23:03 Kiyo. wrote:Naniwa's tweets: @QuanticNaNi johan lucchesi
apparently people got upset when i probe rushed nestea, the game was pointless and it couldnt change anything in the tournament.
@QuanticNaNi johan lucchesi
i can understand if fans got upset but neither of us had anything on stake and wouldnt play our best. i am sry if people expected more tho
"coL"Naniwa ? its not him LOL where does it say "coL"? Naniwa's twitter is Quantic. http://twitter.com/#!/coLNaniwaguy edited dont know why
IT IS NOT NANIWA TWITTER!
it is just some imposer
official Naniwa twitter
http://twitter.com/#!/QuanticNaNi
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On December 13 2011 23:13 synaptik wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:06 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 22:55 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 22:52 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 22:49 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 22:36 KeksX wrote:
You deserve a temp ban for this imho, but I'm no mod.
Thats it. I'm leaving this thread. It's just so irrational and people won't look at this in any different way. Minds are set up. Good luck with your witch hunt, guys. I tried.
Hopefully this will be forgotten within the next few days, like everything else. You've been stubborn all the time and claimed his cheese was not any better than a 6pool or a proxy 2gate so maybe you should not be talking about others being stubborn, especially when Naniwa made it so obvious. As for forgetting about this, people still have not forgotten his BM past. He also embarrassed his new clan so I wouldn't count on this being forgotten anytime soon, it's probably going to have consequences for him. You can kinda pull this off if you have a good reputation and/or do this off-stage in a non-casted game but definitely not with Naniwa's reputation, in Korea, with it being live-casted in front of thousands of watchers, other players and casters. This will not be forgotten quickly for quite a few people. oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL. oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons. The key word being Seoul. I take it you don't have any idea how serious Koreans take Starcraft, do you? There's a saying that fits perfectly: When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Think about it. Well then maybe the koreans should think about the fact that NaNiwa is a foreigner and not acustomed to their culture etc. Have a little understanding maybe? because koreans, hosting a korean tournament, in korea, needs to cater to the whims of an unprofessional and self-centered foreign player furthermore hes lived in koreas for months in a team house. if he still doesnt get it the onus is on him. funny how all the other foreigners training over there gets along with koreans?
Who said naniwa doesn't get a long with koreans? From what ive heard he really loves it in the StarTale house. Obviously didn't work out well in the MVP house but that's another story we don't know the facts of.
He calls nestea an idiot and he pulls his probes against him. That was all against NESTEA. Does that make him an enemy of the state to korea and all koreans?
It's not naniwa taking this to far. It's all the people behind their screens taking this way to far than it really needed to go. Im tired of this shit. It's pointless to argue with people who have nothing but hate in their minds. Cya!
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On December 13 2011 23:15 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:12 Nadarath wrote:On December 13 2011 23:10 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 23:08 Gooshnads wrote:
People rip on Nani without understanding the context of the situation.
Neither of them were going to advance, and I think Nani would rather just spend the time to think about everything that went wrong and practice, rather than draggin it on, playing a half-assed game. Naniwa agreed to the terms of the tournament. He knew that all the games were going to be played. If he can't even stick to the terms that he agreed to then Naniwa has some issues. Well he did play his game. Unless playing got some different definition in yours vocabulary. He loaded a game up. I think saying that he played it is a bit of a stretch. He drag clicked, pressed a, and clicked somewhere else. That's two keypresses less than just typing gg and quitting out.
Still - that's how you play this game slight difference from loading a game and doing nothing. I'm not saying he tried to do his best. Or that his game playing was great but he did show up for match and played it.
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The problem isnt that Naniwa wasnt invested in a game that meant nothing, its the fact that his actions where so unprofessional that he shamed himself, his team, their sponsors and shat all over GOM.
Did naniwa do anything wrong? Yes, not in terms of rules and regulations but by shitting all over everything that should be IMPORTANT you know like honour/respect/pride
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On December 13 2011 23:14 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:08 iamthedave wrote:On December 13 2011 23:05 hybridsc wrote:On December 13 2011 22:55 SnePe wrote:
The points I'm about to try to make is not about Naniwa, but about the way esports tournaments are structured.
If you have ever played tournaments yourself, invested most of your life into a game, have great expectations for you and your team and then when you get eliminated you know it feels horrible. At that point, it is not just a game you play, it is your life. When you lose and get eliminated you get depressed, you just don't want to play. You could argue that you should play for the spectators and the fans. If your favourite football team is eliminated you still expect them to play with honor and dignity in their last game even if it doesn't mean anything. I don't think that you can compare esports with other sports like football, for one reason:
They don't expect you to play 10 minutes after being eliminated. Any other sport have atleast a day before they have to play again.
You are at that point emotionally crushed, the dissapointment is almost impossible to describe. You need time to work it through. From my experience playing in various CS tournaments, if you give us an hour we'll be sort of OK, give us four and we'll be playing reasonably, give us a day and we will be pumped and ready to go and put on a good match. We need time to decompress, talk it through and be alone atleast for a while. Just because there isn't a huge physical strain which is the reason footballers gets days off between games, there still is a mental strain on the players which is never taken into consideration. All your hopes and expectations just died, it is not a great feeling.
Give us 10-20 minutes, our minds will not be in the game, there will be no passion, just utter dissapointment. You are not playing to win, you are just going through the motions and you just want to leave. I've said it countless times to people around me, but no one wants to listen. Tournaments needs to be longer with more time between each game or they just need skip playing pointless matches with teams that has been elminated all together (which is often the case).
Throwing the game is not good and you can NEVER defend that as it is just a pure waste of everyones time, but you can also never expect a good show or that the players are playing with passion unless they are given time to clear their heads. I don't understand why this is such a mystery for a lot of people and why they get so surprised when stuff like Naniwa - Nestea happens.
First legitimate point defending Naniwa. You're right actually. Thinking about it, Gomtv should have never made them play it out. Even the prize pool was the same regardless of whether you finished 4th of 5th. I don't see Korean players doing this, and I've seen several in this situation. Nestea sure wasn't going to. In fact I've seen Koreans fight to the last in matches 'that don't mean anything' because they'd rather have the fans remember then losing 1-3 than 0-4, and at least be able to walk away with their heads held high. I can respect that attitude. I can't respect Naniwa's. On December 13 2011 23:06 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 22:55 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 22:52 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 22:49 zdfgucker wrote:On December 13 2011 22:36 KeksX wrote:
You deserve a temp ban for this imho, but I'm no mod.
Thats it. I'm leaving this thread. It's just so irrational and people won't look at this in any different way. Minds are set up. Good luck with your witch hunt, guys. I tried.
Hopefully this will be forgotten within the next few days, like everything else. You've been stubborn all the time and claimed his cheese was not any better than a 6pool or a proxy 2gate so maybe you should not be talking about others being stubborn, especially when Naniwa made it so obvious. As for forgetting about this, people still have not forgotten his BM past. He also embarrassed his new clan so I wouldn't count on this being forgotten anytime soon, it's probably going to have consequences for him. You can kinda pull this off if you have a good reputation and/or do this off-stage in a non-casted game but definitely not with Naniwa's reputation, in Korea, with it being live-casted in front of thousands of watchers, other players and casters. This will not be forgotten quickly for quite a few people. oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL. oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons. The key word being Seoul. I take it you don't have any idea how serious Koreans take Starcraft, do you? There's a saying that fits perfectly: When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Think about it. Well then maybe the koreans should think about the fact that NaNiwa is a foreigner and not acustomed to their culture etc. Have a little understanding maybe? He's been in 4 GSLs. If he's still so clueless about the gaming culture of the game he's a professional in after 4 months then the fault is entirely his. Especially since he's been in team houses with them. Don't you think there's a huge difference of having lived in korea like a half year compared to a korean who has lived there all his life? I think he needs more time to actually soak in everything. It's not easy as a foreigner to come to another country and be expected to know everything about a countries customs and stuff @ only half a year.
you dont need to soak in anything, to have respect for your profession
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This whole situation is mind boggling, no not naniwa having a bit of fun, the fact that random netizens want to slam him because some korean players slammed him. o.O
So let me get this straight, we can't give Jessica shit, but people can give Naniwa shit freely? He had lost. He could have played the best game of his life, and Nestea the same, and in the end both of them still wouldn't have advanced. Sure, if I were Naniwa I would have probably played the game - I mean, it's against Nestea... of course I would - but he must know something we don't, you know.. how he's making it as a pro-gamer and we're not.
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Ok, now imagine that you are a tournament organizer that wants to hold an invitational torunament, such as Dreamhack. You have 8 spots, and you plan on doing 3/4th place matches just for the laughs/some money...guess who you are NOT going to invite?
and thinking i was so close to buy a ticket for this just to see that kind of thing happening, I would probably be more mad if that had been the case.
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I can't respect a player who just gives up, even when no advancement or prize money is on the line.
You know what my thrown-together volleyball teams record was this past season? 1-32. We won ONE game out of the 33 games we played (11 matches, three games per match.. the one game was against one of the bad teams, too). We showed up most weeks and had to play against kids fresh out of college who had played Division II/III volleyball. Every time we lost the first two games (thus losing the match) did we just stand there and let them serve it out? When we couldn't possibly make the playoffs anymore, did we just not show up to games? No, we showed up and played hard.
It doesn't even have to be a "traditional" sport. When I played CS and Quake competitively, you never saw players just throw games like this... especially not at a high level. When you get spawn killed a bunch of times in a row in Quake and you're all of a sudden down 10-0... do you just AFK or quit the game? No, you try to not get shut out. I remember one CS match we lost the first half like 12-3 or 11-4. We were devastated because we felt like that was our stronger side. But we collected ourselves in the FAR LESS THAN 10 minutes we got, and ended up coming back to tie it and win it in overtime. Did the match matter? Were we going to the playoffs? No. We just didn't want to be remembered as quitters.
I have so much respect for NesTea if that tweet is true. Such dedication to the game and to his career, only to have NaNiWa say "eh, I don't feel like playing right now".
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Nestea will have to wait for a game that matters.
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From Naniwa's interview:
'So if you suffer a bad loss in the groups early on, do you think you can bounce back?
It doesn't matter to me in other games if I win or lose the previous match, I just treat each match like it's the same thing, and give it my best.'
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294009
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That does nothing to defend Naniwa you realize. It just says "It's nothing new others do it too, most people just aren't that stupid to blatantly throw a game."
And even if more people do it it shouldn't be tolerated. You throw a game you should be punished for it. Naniwa shouldn't be crucified but there should be repercussions for it.
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On December 13 2011 23:20 DarK[A] wrote:
I can't respect a player who just gives up, even when no advancement or prize money is on the line.
You know what my thrown-together volleyball teams record was this past season? 1-32. We won ONE game out of the 33 games we played (11 matches, three games per match.. the one game was against one of the bad teams, too). We showed up most weeks and had to play against kids fresh out of college who had played Division II/III volleyball. Every time we lost the first two games (thus losing the match) did we just stand there and let them serve it out? When we couldn't possibly make the playoffs anymore, did we just not show up to games? No, we showed up and played hard.
It doesn't even have to be a "traditional" sport. When I played CS and Quake competitively, you never saw players just throw games like this... especially not at a high level. When you get spawn killed a bunch of times in a row in Quake and you're all of a sudden down 10-0... do you just AFK or quit the game? No, you try to not get shut out. I remember one CS match we lost the first half like 12-3 or 11-4. We were devastated because we felt like that was our stronger side. But we collected ourselves in the FAR LESS THAN 10 minutes we got, and ended up coming back to tie it and win it in overtime. Did the match matter? Were we going to the playoffs? No. We just didn't want to be remembered as quitters.
I have so much respect for NesTea if that tweet is true. Such dedication to the game and to his career, only to have NaNiWa say "eh, I don't feel like playing right now".
awwwwwwww sadface. Pffff.. grow the F up. The game was pointless. They can meet again when it actually matters. Quit being a melodramatic baby.
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As a competitor it made NO sense for Naniwa to play his game vs Nestea in a straight up fashion. He had no chance to advance so if he played that game as hard as he could with the intent to win the only thing he would accomplish is let his future opponents have more information about his play.
No it wasn't exciting, but Naniwa is a competitor first and an entertainer second.
Haters keep on hating <3
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On December 13 2011 23:19 SeriouR wrote:
Ok, now imagine that you are a tournament organizer that wants to hold an invitational torunament, such as Dreamhack. You have 8 spots, and you plan on doing 3/4th place matches just for the laughs/some money...guess who you are NOT going to invite?
and thinking i was so close to buy a ticket for this just to see that kind of thing happening, I would probably be more mad if that had been the case.
Bolded the differentiating factor for you.
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On December 13 2011 23:24 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:20 DarK[A] wrote:
I can't respect a player who just gives up, even when no advancement or prize money is on the line.
You know what my thrown-together volleyball teams record was this past season? 1-32. We won ONE game out of the 33 games we played (11 matches, three games per match.. the one game was against one of the bad teams, too). We showed up most weeks and had to play against kids fresh out of college who had played Division II/III volleyball. Every time we lost the first two games (thus losing the match) did we just stand there and let them serve it out? When we couldn't possibly make the playoffs anymore, did we just not show up to games? No, we showed up and played hard.
It doesn't even have to be a "traditional" sport. When I played CS and Quake competitively, you never saw players just throw games like this... especially not at a high level. When you get spawn killed a bunch of times in a row in Quake and you're all of a sudden down 10-0... do you just AFK or quit the game? No, you try to not get shut out. I remember one CS match we lost the first half like 12-3 or 11-4. We were devastated because we felt like that was our stronger side. But we collected ourselves in the FAR LESS THAN 10 minutes we got, and ended up coming back to tie it and win it in overtime. Did the match matter? Were we going to the playoffs? No. We just didn't want to be remembered as quitters.
I have so much respect for NesTea if that tweet is true. Such dedication to the game and to his career, only to have NaNiWa say "eh, I don't feel like playing right now". awwwwwwww sadface. Pffff.. grow the F up. The game was pointless. They can meet again when it actually matters. Quit being a melodramatic baby.
Go to respond, see "Sweden."
Nevermind
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he kinda deserved all the shit he got. Respect of the opponent is FUNDAMENTAL in sports/esports
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On December 13 2011 23:25 Mortal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:24 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 23:20 DarK[A] wrote:
I can't respect a player who just gives up, even when no advancement or prize money is on the line.
You know what my thrown-together volleyball teams record was this past season? 1-32. We won ONE game out of the 33 games we played (11 matches, three games per match.. the one game was against one of the bad teams, too). We showed up most weeks and had to play against kids fresh out of college who had played Division II/III volleyball. Every time we lost the first two games (thus losing the match) did we just stand there and let them serve it out? When we couldn't possibly make the playoffs anymore, did we just not show up to games? No, we showed up and played hard.
It doesn't even have to be a "traditional" sport. When I played CS and Quake competitively, you never saw players just throw games like this... especially not at a high level. When you get spawn killed a bunch of times in a row in Quake and you're all of a sudden down 10-0... do you just AFK or quit the game? No, you try to not get shut out. I remember one CS match we lost the first half like 12-3 or 11-4. We were devastated because we felt like that was our stronger side. But we collected ourselves in the FAR LESS THAN 10 minutes we got, and ended up coming back to tie it and win it in overtime. Did the match matter? Were we going to the playoffs? No. We just didn't want to be remembered as quitters.
I have so much respect for NesTea if that tweet is true. Such dedication to the game and to his career, only to have NaNiWa say "eh, I don't feel like playing right now". awwwwwwww sadface. Pffff.. grow the F up. The game was pointless. They can meet again when it actually matters. Quit being a melodramatic baby. Go to respond, see "Sweden." Nevermind
No kidding.. swedish fans are insanely devoted it seems. Naniwa could probably get away with punching a baby.
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Jesus guys the game didn't even matter, respect plays no part in it.
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Okay I have a question to all the people defending Naniwa, what did you think of the CoCa/Byun incident?
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On December 13 2011 23:27 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:25 Mortal wrote:On December 13 2011 23:24 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 23:20 DarK[A] wrote:
I can't respect a player who just gives up, even when no advancement or prize money is on the line.
You know what my thrown-together volleyball teams record was this past season? 1-32. We won ONE game out of the 33 games we played (11 matches, three games per match.. the one game was against one of the bad teams, too). We showed up most weeks and had to play against kids fresh out of college who had played Division II/III volleyball. Every time we lost the first two games (thus losing the match) did we just stand there and let them serve it out? When we couldn't possibly make the playoffs anymore, did we just not show up to games? No, we showed up and played hard.
It doesn't even have to be a "traditional" sport. When I played CS and Quake competitively, you never saw players just throw games like this... especially not at a high level. When you get spawn killed a bunch of times in a row in Quake and you're all of a sudden down 10-0... do you just AFK or quit the game? No, you try to not get shut out. I remember one CS match we lost the first half like 12-3 or 11-4. We were devastated because we felt like that was our stronger side. But we collected ourselves in the FAR LESS THAN 10 minutes we got, and ended up coming back to tie it and win it in overtime. Did the match matter? Were we going to the playoffs? No. We just didn't want to be remembered as quitters.
I have so much respect for NesTea if that tweet is true. Such dedication to the game and to his career, only to have NaNiWa say "eh, I don't feel like playing right now". awwwwwwww sadface. Pffff.. grow the F up. The game was pointless. They can meet again when it actually matters. Quit being a melodramatic baby. Go to respond, see "Sweden." Nevermind No kidding.. swedish fans are insanely devoted it seems. Naniwa could probably get away with punching a baby.
Would've been hysterical if that was your 4k. But yes. (edited for typo).
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On December 13 2011 23:24 KuRiCobbY wrote:
As a competitor it made NO sense for Naniwa to play his game vs Nestea in a straight up fashion. He had no chance to advance so if he played that game as hard as he could with the intent to win the only thing he would accomplish is let his future opponents have more information about his play.
No it wasn't exciting, but Naniwa is a competitor first and an entertainer second.
Haters keep on hating <3
He was quite impressive vs Leenock, Polt and MMA (where he nearly managed to hold the thor pressure). Its not a good attitude and should not be done no matter what.
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On December 13 2011 23:24 JohnMatrix wrote:From Naniwa's interview: 'So if you suffer a bad loss in the groups early on, do you think you can bounce back? It doesn't matter to me in other games if I win or lose the previous match, I just treat each match like it's the same thing, and give it my best.' http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294009
Rushing 6 probes is not giving his best....not only does he cheat he lies too.
If he's trying to be cute or cause drama/bm he's not really doing a good job. He's just pissing everyone off including the Koreans.
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On December 13 2011 23:25 Mortal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:24 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 23:20 DarK[A] wrote:
I can't respect a player who just gives up, even when no advancement or prize money is on the line.
You know what my thrown-together volleyball teams record was this past season? 1-32. We won ONE game out of the 33 games we played (11 matches, three games per match.. the one game was against one of the bad teams, too). We showed up most weeks and had to play against kids fresh out of college who had played Division II/III volleyball. Every time we lost the first two games (thus losing the match) did we just stand there and let them serve it out? When we couldn't possibly make the playoffs anymore, did we just not show up to games? No, we showed up and played hard.
It doesn't even have to be a "traditional" sport. When I played CS and Quake competitively, you never saw players just throw games like this... especially not at a high level. When you get spawn killed a bunch of times in a row in Quake and you're all of a sudden down 10-0... do you just AFK or quit the game? No, you try to not get shut out. I remember one CS match we lost the first half like 12-3 or 11-4. We were devastated because we felt like that was our stronger side. But we collected ourselves in the FAR LESS THAN 10 minutes we got, and ended up coming back to tie it and win it in overtime. Did the match matter? Were we going to the playoffs? No. We just didn't want to be remembered as quitters.
I have so much respect for NesTea if that tweet is true. Such dedication to the game and to his career, only to have NaNiWa say "eh, I don't feel like playing right now". awwwwwwww sadface. Pffff.. grow the F up. The game was pointless. They can meet again when it actually matters. Quit being a melodramatic baby. Go to respond, see "Sweden." Nevermind
Shows how immature you are. Im not Swedish and i full agree with that response. You gonna write now - Pff Polish im not gonna respond ?
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On December 13 2011 23:27 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:25 Mortal wrote:On December 13 2011 23:24 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 23:20 DarK[A] wrote:
I can't respect a player who just gives up, even when no advancement or prize money is on the line.
You know what my thrown-together volleyball teams record was this past season? 1-32. We won ONE game out of the 33 games we played (11 matches, three games per match.. the one game was against one of the bad teams, too). We showed up most weeks and had to play against kids fresh out of college who had played Division II/III volleyball. Every time we lost the first two games (thus losing the match) did we just stand there and let them serve it out? When we couldn't possibly make the playoffs anymore, did we just not show up to games? No, we showed up and played hard.
It doesn't even have to be a "traditional" sport. When I played CS and Quake competitively, you never saw players just throw games like this... especially not at a high level. When you get spawn killed a bunch of times in a row in Quake and you're all of a sudden down 10-0... do you just AFK or quit the game? No, you try to not get shut out. I remember one CS match we lost the first half like 12-3 or 11-4. We were devastated because we felt like that was our stronger side. But we collected ourselves in the FAR LESS THAN 10 minutes we got, and ended up coming back to tie it and win it in overtime. Did the match matter? Were we going to the playoffs? No. We just didn't want to be remembered as quitters.
I have so much respect for NesTea if that tweet is true. Such dedication to the game and to his career, only to have NaNiWa say "eh, I don't feel like playing right now". awwwwwwww sadface. Pffff.. grow the F up. The game was pointless. They can meet again when it actually matters. Quit being a melodramatic baby. Go to respond, see "Sweden." Nevermind No kidding.. swedish fans are insanely devoted it seems. Naniwa could probably get away with punching a baby.
Funny. Still doesn't change the fact that people are severely overreacting.
But ofcourse it's easier for people from one country to shit on another country.
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On December 13 2011 23:27 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:25 Mortal wrote:On December 13 2011 23:24 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 23:20 DarK[A] wrote:
I can't respect a player who just gives up, even when no advancement or prize money is on the line.
You know what my thrown-together volleyball teams record was this past season? 1-32. We won ONE game out of the 33 games we played (11 matches, three games per match.. the one game was against one of the bad teams, too). We showed up most weeks and had to play against kids fresh out of college who had played Division II/III volleyball. Every time we lost the first two games (thus losing the match) did we just stand there and let them serve it out? When we couldn't possibly make the playoffs anymore, did we just not show up to games? No, we showed up and played hard.
It doesn't even have to be a "traditional" sport. When I played CS and Quake competitively, you never saw players just throw games like this... especially not at a high level. When you get spawn killed a bunch of times in a row in Quake and you're all of a sudden down 10-0... do you just AFK or quit the game? No, you try to not get shut out. I remember one CS match we lost the first half like 12-3 or 11-4. We were devastated because we felt like that was our stronger side. But we collected ourselves in the FAR LESS THAN 10 minutes we got, and ended up coming back to tie it and win it in overtime. Did the match matter? Were we going to the playoffs? No. We just didn't want to be remembered as quitters.
I have so much respect for NesTea if that tweet is true. Such dedication to the game and to his career, only to have NaNiWa say "eh, I don't feel like playing right now". awwwwwwww sadface. Pffff.. grow the F up. The game was pointless. They can meet again when it actually matters. Quit being a melodramatic baby. Go to respond, see "Sweden." Nevermind No kidding.. swedish fans are insanely devoted it seems. Naniwa could probably get away with punching a baby.
Hey, if the french can do it with Stephano, and the americans with Idra. Why shouldn't we? On a more serious note: Would I have preferred to have seen a full game where they both tried their best. Yes, definitely. Would a trade it for a world where I don't get to see any of Naniwa's games in high stake tournaments? Hell no.
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On December 13 2011 23:24 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:20 DarK[A] wrote:
I can't respect a player who just gives up, even when no advancement or prize money is on the line.
You know what my thrown-together volleyball teams record was this past season? 1-32. We won ONE game out of the 33 games we played (11 matches, three games per match.. the one game was against one of the bad teams, too). We showed up most weeks and had to play against kids fresh out of college who had played Division II/III volleyball. Every time we lost the first two games (thus losing the match) did we just stand there and let them serve it out? When we couldn't possibly make the playoffs anymore, did we just not show up to games? No, we showed up and played hard.
It doesn't even have to be a "traditional" sport. When I played CS and Quake competitively, you never saw players just throw games like this... especially not at a high level. When you get spawn killed a bunch of times in a row in Quake and you're all of a sudden down 10-0... do you just AFK or quit the game? No, you try to not get shut out. I remember one CS match we lost the first half like 12-3 or 11-4. We were devastated because we felt like that was our stronger side. But we collected ourselves in the FAR LESS THAN 10 minutes we got, and ended up coming back to tie it and win it in overtime. Did the match matter? Were we going to the playoffs? No. We just didn't want to be remembered as quitters.
I have so much respect for NesTea if that tweet is true. Such dedication to the game and to his career, only to have NaNiWa say "eh, I don't feel like playing right now". awwwwwwww sadface. Pffff.. grow the F up. The game was pointless. They can meet again when it actually matters. Quit being a melodramatic baby.
You inability to accept the fact that people have different qualifications for respect shows who needs to grow up. It's you by the way if you weren't able to catch on. In fact, Dark[A] supports his claims by showing that he has had similar experiences in professional sports, establishing his credibility.
Like I said earlier, everyone has their own opinions, but at least Dark shows why his opinion matters somewhat... more than yours anyway.
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So its ok for naniwa to behave anyway he likes disrespecting alot of people until his stupidity lose Quantic its sponsors, startale no longer want to provide space for sase to practice and esports falls ever more downwards in terns of respect?
shame on all these people upset by his action they should wise up!
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On December 13 2011 23:28 Femari wrote:
Okay I have a question to all the people defending Naniwa, what did you think of the CoCa/Byun incident?
I think SlayerS were incredibly harsh in their punishment.
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On December 13 2011 23:29 LuckyFool wrote:Rushing 6 probes is not giving his best....not only does he cheat he lies too. If he's trying to be cute or cause drama/bm he's not really doing a good job. He's just pissing everyone off including the Koreans.
Way to take something out of context dumbass. You realise when he said that, he didn't mean in the context of playing a meaningless game that wouldn't make a difference to his progression in the larger scale of the cup.
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On December 13 2011 23:29 Nadarath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:25 Mortal wrote:On December 13 2011 23:24 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 23:20 DarK[A] wrote:
I can't respect a player who just gives up, even when no advancement or prize money is on the line.
You know what my thrown-together volleyball teams record was this past season? 1-32. We won ONE game out of the 33 games we played (11 matches, three games per match.. the one game was against one of the bad teams, too). We showed up most weeks and had to play against kids fresh out of college who had played Division II/III volleyball. Every time we lost the first two games (thus losing the match) did we just stand there and let them serve it out? When we couldn't possibly make the playoffs anymore, did we just not show up to games? No, we showed up and played hard.
It doesn't even have to be a "traditional" sport. When I played CS and Quake competitively, you never saw players just throw games like this... especially not at a high level. When you get spawn killed a bunch of times in a row in Quake and you're all of a sudden down 10-0... do you just AFK or quit the game? No, you try to not get shut out. I remember one CS match we lost the first half like 12-3 or 11-4. We were devastated because we felt like that was our stronger side. But we collected ourselves in the FAR LESS THAN 10 minutes we got, and ended up coming back to tie it and win it in overtime. Did the match matter? Were we going to the playoffs? No. We just didn't want to be remembered as quitters.
I have so much respect for NesTea if that tweet is true. Such dedication to the game and to his career, only to have NaNiWa say "eh, I don't feel like playing right now". awwwwwwww sadface. Pffff.. grow the F up. The game was pointless. They can meet again when it actually matters. Quit being a melodramatic baby. Go to respond, see "Sweden." Nevermind Shows how immature you are. Im not Swedish and i full agree with that response. You gonna write now - Pff Polish im not gonna respond ?
Lol, you agree because you clearly understand nothing of SC2, regardless of country of origin. In his recent interview he said he'd "treat each match as it's own and do his best." Last I checked, rushing w/ 6 probes isn't doing your best, but I could be wrong w/ Naniwa.
And yeah the match wouldn't have changed anything, do you see Koreans just blatantly leaving in the first minute because they're immature and can't handle losing?
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On December 13 2011 23:29 LuckyFool wrote:Rushing 6 probes is not giving his best....not only does he cheat he lies too. If he's trying to be cute or cause drama/bm he's not really doing a good job. He's just pissing everyone off including the Koreans.
Im pretty sure that statement doesn't include matches that are pointless. But good try there son.
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On December 13 2011 23:28 Femari wrote:
Okay I have a question to all the people defending Naniwa, what did you think of the CoCa/Byun incident?
EDITCompletely misread post. Self-ownage and stupidity at its finest ;;
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On December 13 2011 23:30 Ponchey wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:27 Itsmedudeman wrote:On December 13 2011 23:25 Mortal wrote:On December 13 2011 23:24 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 23:20 DarK[A] wrote:
I can't respect a player who just gives up, even when no advancement or prize money is on the line.
You know what my thrown-together volleyball teams record was this past season? 1-32. We won ONE game out of the 33 games we played (11 matches, three games per match.. the one game was against one of the bad teams, too). We showed up most weeks and had to play against kids fresh out of college who had played Division II/III volleyball. Every time we lost the first two games (thus losing the match) did we just stand there and let them serve it out? When we couldn't possibly make the playoffs anymore, did we just not show up to games? No, we showed up and played hard.
It doesn't even have to be a "traditional" sport. When I played CS and Quake competitively, you never saw players just throw games like this... especially not at a high level. When you get spawn killed a bunch of times in a row in Quake and you're all of a sudden down 10-0... do you just AFK or quit the game? No, you try to not get shut out. I remember one CS match we lost the first half like 12-3 or 11-4. We were devastated because we felt like that was our stronger side. But we collected ourselves in the FAR LESS THAN 10 minutes we got, and ended up coming back to tie it and win it in overtime. Did the match matter? Were we going to the playoffs? No. We just didn't want to be remembered as quitters.
I have so much respect for NesTea if that tweet is true. Such dedication to the game and to his career, only to have NaNiWa say "eh, I don't feel like playing right now". awwwwwwww sadface. Pffff.. grow the F up. The game was pointless. They can meet again when it actually matters. Quit being a melodramatic baby. Go to respond, see "Sweden." Nevermind No kidding.. swedish fans are insanely devoted it seems. Naniwa could probably get away with punching a baby. Hey, if the french can do it with Stephano, and the americans with Idra. Why shouldn't we? On a more serious note: Would I have preferred to have seen a full game where they both tried their best. Yes, definitely. Would a trade it for a world where I don't get to see any of Naniwa's games in high stake tournaments? Hell no.
Sorry but Stephano have never been openly BM, never left without a message (ok, it's not "gg"), and doesn't act like he's the best player in the world. Oh, and he doesn't bitch about balance when he plays poorly but says he fucked up and it was embarassing.
Not really the same character.
This was just poor professionalism by Naniwa. His job is not to win tourneys but to make tourneys interesting to watch. Too bad he can't get this.
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On December 13 2011 23:32 elt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:28 Femari wrote:
Okay I have a question to all the people defending Naniwa, what did you think of the CoCa/Byun incident? It was crap and idiotic by both players, some of the same people now spoke out then (e.g. Nestea). They got severely punished by their teams. I don't see your point?
The point is if they are all for the punishments CoCa and Byun got and they're defending Naniwa then they're giant hypocrites.
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On December 13 2011 23:11 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:06 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 22:59 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 22:54 Vond wrote:
oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL.
oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons.
It's not the fact that he proberushed. It's a cheese that can sometimes work. But a-moving the probes and then taking your hands off your keyboard in protest is not even close to being okay. "is not even close to being okay" lol. NaNiwa can do whatever he wants dude. And people can bitch about it how much they want. Atleast he is being himself and not some phony. He has guts. You make it sound like he did something really bad ^^ wich he didn't. Throwing a game isn't bad? Someone get sAviOr we need to get this information to him! To NaNiwa... the game was pointless. He had played 3 close games and ended up 0-3. Not to happy about that i guess considering he has a huge winner mentality. Throwing a game that is pointless isn't that bad in my opinion no. Nestea was out aswell. That game was just a waste of time. NaNiwa had the right to do that since the game didn't matter anyway.
dont you understand the reason naniwa is able to make a living off of playing video games is the fans? dont you understand that EVERYTHING is being done for the fans? dont you think that bomber had better things to do than fly to sweden, a couple of monts ago, JUST TO PLAY A SHOWMATCH? the sponsors sent him, the fans were loving it, he had to go.
when you are a supposed ''pro'' at something, you have to do things. and you have to play the games even if they dont matter to you. you know why? because the fans are tuning in to see you play. when you obviously dont give a shit about the fans, like naniwa does, you dont deserve to get paid for playing a game.
the fans are they who bring the money into this, they are the ones that watch the ads and support the sponsors by giving them money; money which then are thrown back into e-sports. is it that SO difficult for you to understand? quit supporting him just because he plays your race (im a protoss player as well) or because you are from the same country that he is, the guy is trash he doesnt deserve your support. i really expect from quantic to dismiss him and from no other team to pick him up and thus vanish from the scene.
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yes Nani, the game didnt matter statistically but shit man, your foreign fans stayed up WAY into the night to watch you play. That's selfish bro.
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On December 13 2011 23:31 lovekr wrote:
So its ok for naniwa to behave anyway he likes disrespecting alot of people until his stupidity lose Quantic its sponsors, startale no longer want to provide space for sase to practice and esports falls ever more downwards in terns of respect?
shame on all these people upset by his action they should wise up!
Quantic losing sponsors? have you ever heard the phrase "all publicity is good publicity"? Do you think more or less people will have heard the names Naniwa and Quantic tomorrow than had yesterday?
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MKP's reaction. He expresses the same thoughts as Guineapig basically and counts himself as someone who would have loved to be in Naniwa's spot.
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On December 13 2011 23:33 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:32 elt wrote:On December 13 2011 23:28 Femari wrote:
Okay I have a question to all the people defending Naniwa, what did you think of the CoCa/Byun incident? It was crap and idiotic by both players, some of the same people now spoke out then (e.g. Nestea). They got severely punished by their teams. I don't see your point? The point is if they are all for the punishments CoCa and Byun got and they're defending Naniwa then they're giant hypocrites.
Oh shit, I completely misread your post sorry -.-;;
Now I look like a dumbass...
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On December 13 2011 23:27 Itsmedudeman wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 13 2011 23:25 Mortal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:24 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 23:20 DarK[A] wrote:
I can't respect a player who just gives up, even when no advancement or prize money is on the line.
You know what my thrown-together volleyball teams record was this past season? 1-32. We won ONE game out of the 33 games we played (11 matches, three games per match.. the one game was against one of the bad teams, too). We showed up most weeks and had to play against kids fresh out of college who had played Division II/III volleyball. Every time we lost the first two games (thus losing the match) did we just stand there and let them serve it out? When we couldn't possibly make the playoffs anymore, did we just not show up to games? No, we showed up and played hard.
It doesn't even have to be a "traditional" sport. When I played CS and Quake competitively, you never saw players just throw games like this... especially not at a high level. When you get spawn killed a bunch of times in a row in Quake and you're all of a sudden down 10-0... do you just AFK or quit the game? No, you try to not get shut out. I remember one CS match we lost the first half like 12-3 or 11-4. We were devastated because we felt like that was our stronger side. But we collected ourselves in the FAR LESS THAN 10 minutes we got, and ended up coming back to tie it and win it in overtime. Did the match matter? Were we going to the playoffs? No. We just didn't want to be remembered as quitters.
I have so much respect for NesTea if that tweet is true. Such dedication to the game and to his career, only to have NaNiWa say "eh, I don't feel like playing right now". awwwwwwww sadface. Pffff.. grow the F up. The game was pointless. They can meet again when it actually matters. Quit being a melodramatic baby. Go to respond, see "Sweden." Nevermind No kidding.. swedish fans are insanely devoted it seems. Naniwa could probably get away with punching a baby.
Or we're just slightly more rational than everyone else
I have to agree with Tylers tweet. Some people seem to think that "if he had atleast done a proxy 10 Gate, it would be okay". In my mind that makes no difference. That's just enjoying the illusion of competition. Naniwa just took things to their logical conclusion.
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On December 13 2011 23:33 Fred Flintstone wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:11 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 23:06 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 22:59 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 22:54 Vond wrote:
oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL.
oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons.
It's not the fact that he proberushed. It's a cheese that can sometimes work. But a-moving the probes and then taking your hands off your keyboard in protest is not even close to being okay. "is not even close to being okay" lol. NaNiwa can do whatever he wants dude. And people can bitch about it how much they want. Atleast he is being himself and not some phony. He has guts. You make it sound like he did something really bad ^^ wich he didn't. Throwing a game isn't bad? Someone get sAviOr we need to get this information to him! To NaNiwa... the game was pointless. He had played 3 close games and ended up 0-3. Not to happy about that i guess considering he has a huge winner mentality. Throwing a game that is pointless isn't that bad in my opinion no. Nestea was out aswell. That game was just a waste of time. NaNiwa had the right to do that since the game didn't matter anyway. dont you understand the reason naniwa is able to make a living off of playing video games is the fans? dont you understand that EVERYTHING is being done for the fans? dont you think that bomber had better things to do than fly to sweden, a couple of monts ago, JUST TO PLAY A SHOWMATCH? the fans are they who bring the money into this, they are the ones who watch the ads and support the sponsors by giving them money; money which then are thrown back into e-sports. is it that SO difficult for you to understand? when you are a supposed ''pro'' at something, you play the games even if they dont matter to you. because the fans are tuning in to see you play. when you obviously dont give a shit about the fans, like naniwa does, you dont deserve to get paid for playing a game. quit supporting him just because he plays your race (im a protoss player as well) or because you are a swede, he doesnt deserve your support. i really expect from quantic to dismiss him and from no other team to pick him up and let him vanish from the scene. ps.
Don't you think your overreacting? Answer: YES YOU ARE!
Let it go a couple of days and maybe your mind has come to it's senses.
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On December 13 2011 23:32 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:30 Ponchey wrote:On December 13 2011 23:27 Itsmedudeman wrote:On December 13 2011 23:25 Mortal wrote:On December 13 2011 23:24 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 23:20 DarK[A] wrote:
I can't respect a player who just gives up, even when no advancement or prize money is on the line.
You know what my thrown-together volleyball teams record was this past season? 1-32. We won ONE game out of the 33 games we played (11 matches, three games per match.. the one game was against one of the bad teams, too). We showed up most weeks and had to play against kids fresh out of college who had played Division II/III volleyball. Every time we lost the first two games (thus losing the match) did we just stand there and let them serve it out? When we couldn't possibly make the playoffs anymore, did we just not show up to games? No, we showed up and played hard.
It doesn't even have to be a "traditional" sport. When I played CS and Quake competitively, you never saw players just throw games like this... especially not at a high level. When you get spawn killed a bunch of times in a row in Quake and you're all of a sudden down 10-0... do you just AFK or quit the game? No, you try to not get shut out. I remember one CS match we lost the first half like 12-3 or 11-4. We were devastated because we felt like that was our stronger side. But we collected ourselves in the FAR LESS THAN 10 minutes we got, and ended up coming back to tie it and win it in overtime. Did the match matter? Were we going to the playoffs? No. We just didn't want to be remembered as quitters.
I have so much respect for NesTea if that tweet is true. Such dedication to the game and to his career, only to have NaNiWa say "eh, I don't feel like playing right now". awwwwwwww sadface. Pffff.. grow the F up. The game was pointless. They can meet again when it actually matters. Quit being a melodramatic baby. Go to respond, see "Sweden." Nevermind No kidding.. swedish fans are insanely devoted it seems. Naniwa could probably get away with punching a baby. Hey, if the french can do it with Stephano, and the americans with Idra. Why shouldn't we? On a more serious note: Would I have preferred to have seen a full game where they both tried their best. Yes, definitely. Would a trade it for a world where I don't get to see any of Naniwa's games in high stake tournaments? Hell no. Sorry but Stephano have never been openly BM, never left without a message (ok, it's not "gg"), and doesn't act like he's the best player in the world. Oh, and he doesn't bitch about balance when he plays poorly but says he fucked up and it was embarassing. Not really the same character. This was just poor professionalism by Naniwa. His job is not to win tourneys but to make tourneys interesting to watch. Too bad he can't get this.
As far as professionalism goes, I think Stephano's shenanigans with the Complexity deal was considerably worse than what naniwa did today. But you know what? Stephano is such a skilled player, that I'd rather have him pull that stuff and still play, than not.
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naniwas attitude was ridiculous. what a spoiled kid.
EVERYONE wanted to be on that tournament, on his spot. and he takes it and gets owned and then throws away a game? i wanna see him CRUSHED in code s! MAKE IT HAPPEN KOREANS
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Yes, Naniwa did do something stupid but there was ZERO chance of any of them to advance but I dont get the hate,,. And the koreans also seem very unproffesional about this. If Naniwa doesnt want to play a game that doesnt matter anything please let him.
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On December 13 2011 23:33 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:32 elt wrote:On December 13 2011 23:28 Femari wrote:
Okay I have a question to all the people defending Naniwa, what did you think of the CoCa/Byun incident? It was crap and idiotic by both players, some of the same people now spoke out then (e.g. Nestea). They got severely punished by their teams. I don't see your point? The point is if they are all for the punishments CoCa and Byun got and they're defending Naniwa then they're giant hypocrites.
I dont see how that is even remotley the same. What CoCa/Byun did affected the spots for an upcoming GSL right? Finishing on X spot in the blizz cup is not messing something up for another tourney.
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On December 13 2011 23:35 Ponchey wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:32 mr_tolkien wrote:On December 13 2011 23:30 Ponchey wrote:On December 13 2011 23:27 Itsmedudeman wrote:On December 13 2011 23:25 Mortal wrote:On December 13 2011 23:24 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 23:20 DarK[A] wrote:
I can't respect a player who just gives up, even when no advancement or prize money is on the line.
You know what my thrown-together volleyball teams record was this past season? 1-32. We won ONE game out of the 33 games we played (11 matches, three games per match.. the one game was against one of the bad teams, too). We showed up most weeks and had to play against kids fresh out of college who had played Division II/III volleyball. Every time we lost the first two games (thus losing the match) did we just stand there and let them serve it out? When we couldn't possibly make the playoffs anymore, did we just not show up to games? No, we showed up and played hard.
It doesn't even have to be a "traditional" sport. When I played CS and Quake competitively, you never saw players just throw games like this... especially not at a high level. When you get spawn killed a bunch of times in a row in Quake and you're all of a sudden down 10-0... do you just AFK or quit the game? No, you try to not get shut out. I remember one CS match we lost the first half like 12-3 or 11-4. We were devastated because we felt like that was our stronger side. But we collected ourselves in the FAR LESS THAN 10 minutes we got, and ended up coming back to tie it and win it in overtime. Did the match matter? Were we going to the playoffs? No. We just didn't want to be remembered as quitters.
I have so much respect for NesTea if that tweet is true. Such dedication to the game and to his career, only to have NaNiWa say "eh, I don't feel like playing right now". awwwwwwww sadface. Pffff.. grow the F up. The game was pointless. They can meet again when it actually matters. Quit being a melodramatic baby. Go to respond, see "Sweden." Nevermind No kidding.. swedish fans are insanely devoted it seems. Naniwa could probably get away with punching a baby. Hey, if the french can do it with Stephano, and the americans with Idra. Why shouldn't we? On a more serious note: Would I have preferred to have seen a full game where they both tried their best. Yes, definitely. Would a trade it for a world where I don't get to see any of Naniwa's games in high stake tournaments? Hell no. Sorry but Stephano have never been openly BM, never left without a message (ok, it's not "gg"), and doesn't act like he's the best player in the world. Oh, and he doesn't bitch about balance when he plays poorly but says he fucked up and it was embarassing. Not really the same character. This was just poor professionalism by Naniwa. His job is not to win tourneys but to make tourneys interesting to watch. Too bad he can't get this. As far as professionalism goes, I think Stephano's shenanigans with the Complexity deal was considerably worse than what naniwa did today. But you know what? Stephano is such a skilled player, that I'd rather have him pull that stuff and still play, than not.
Did the Complexity problem ever hinder your spectator experience ? No. End of story, it's not an important fact in the story of SC2 as it was a «behind the scene» problem.
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On December 13 2011 23:34 elt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:33 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 23:32 elt wrote:On December 13 2011 23:28 Femari wrote:
Okay I have a question to all the people defending Naniwa, what did you think of the CoCa/Byun incident? It was crap and idiotic by both players, some of the same people now spoke out then (e.g. Nestea). They got severely punished by their teams. I don't see your point? The point is if they are all for the punishments CoCa and Byun got and they're defending Naniwa then they're giant hypocrites. Oh shit, I completely misread your post sorry -.-;; Now I look like a dumbass...
lol it's okay.
Ive done the same thing before.
My point is if they are for throwing games then okay I will respect that opinion, if they're just defending Naniwa then they should be ignored.
On December 13 2011 23:36 hALLE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:33 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 23:32 elt wrote:On December 13 2011 23:28 Femari wrote:
Okay I have a question to all the people defending Naniwa, what did you think of the CoCa/Byun incident? It was crap and idiotic by both players, some of the same people now spoke out then (e.g. Nestea). They got severely punished by their teams. I don't see your point? The point is if they are all for the punishments CoCa and Byun got and they're defending Naniwa then they're giant hypocrites. I dont see how that is even remotley the same. What CoCa/Byun did affected the spots for an upcoming GSL right? Finishing on X spot in the blizz cup is not messing something up for another tourney.
Normally there was a possibly GSL spot on the line but for that tournament there wasn't at the time.
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Re-Tweeted, Quoted.
Tyler always a breath of fresh air.
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Deserved comments. Nani's not gonna last, no team will want him in korea after that...
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On December 13 2011 23:34 Pehrfect wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:27 Itsmedudeman wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 13 2011 23:25 Mortal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:24 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 23:20 DarK[A] wrote:
I can't respect a player who just gives up, even when no advancement or prize money is on the line.
You know what my thrown-together volleyball teams record was this past season? 1-32. We won ONE game out of the 33 games we played (11 matches, three games per match.. the one game was against one of the bad teams, too). We showed up most weeks and had to play against kids fresh out of college who had played Division II/III volleyball. Every time we lost the first two games (thus losing the match) did we just stand there and let them serve it out? When we couldn't possibly make the playoffs anymore, did we just not show up to games? No, we showed up and played hard.
It doesn't even have to be a "traditional" sport. When I played CS and Quake competitively, you never saw players just throw games like this... especially not at a high level. When you get spawn killed a bunch of times in a row in Quake and you're all of a sudden down 10-0... do you just AFK or quit the game? No, you try to not get shut out. I remember one CS match we lost the first half like 12-3 or 11-4. We were devastated because we felt like that was our stronger side. But we collected ourselves in the FAR LESS THAN 10 minutes we got, and ended up coming back to tie it and win it in overtime. Did the match matter? Were we going to the playoffs? No. We just didn't want to be remembered as quitters.
I have so much respect for NesTea if that tweet is true. Such dedication to the game and to his career, only to have NaNiWa say "eh, I don't feel like playing right now". awwwwwwww sadface. Pffff.. grow the F up. The game was pointless. They can meet again when it actually matters. Quit being a melodramatic baby. Go to respond, see "Sweden." Nevermind No kidding.. swedish fans are insanely devoted it seems. Naniwa could probably get away with punching a baby. Or we're just slightly more rational than everyone else I have to agree with Tylers tweet. Some people seem to think that "if he had atleast done a proxy 10 Gate, it would be okay". In my mind that makes no difference. That's just enjoying the illusion of competition. Naniwa just took things to their logical conclusion.
Yeah, go figure it's the swedish fans who would side with naniwa, who just by coincidence happens to be from sweden. I'm just gonna take the benefit of the doubt and say that not all swedish people would do something as retarded as this in naniwa's situation. Never could I imagine morrow or thorzain doing that. They would be happy to just play a game for their fans against the best players even if they had no chance of winning the group.
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On December 13 2011 23:35 Sif_ wrote:
naniwas attitude was ridiculous. what a spoiled kid.
EVERYONE wanted to be on that tournament, on his spot. and he takes it and gets owned and then throws away a game? i wanna see him CRUSHED in code s! MAKE IT HAPPEN KOREANS
I guess you're trolling, since you claim that Naniwa was "owned" in his first three games.
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On December 13 2011 23:34 elt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:33 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 23:32 elt wrote:On December 13 2011 23:28 Femari wrote:
Okay I have a question to all the people defending Naniwa, what did you think of the CoCa/Byun incident? It was crap and idiotic by both players, some of the same people now spoke out then (e.g. Nestea). They got severely punished by their teams. I don't see your point? The point is if they are all for the punishments CoCa and Byun got and they're defending Naniwa then they're giant hypocrites. Oh shit, I completely misread your post sorry -.-;; Now I look like a dumbass...
lol how can you even compared that with this?
They agreed upon rigging the match VS NaNiwa pulled some probes and gg'd on a pointless match.
You are fucking dumb dude.
User was warned for this post
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Understanding this from the Korean perspective, what Naniwa did was absolutely taboo, because of the long Korean tradition and emphasis on trying your best even when it didn't affect results. Consider this, what would Boxer or NaDa do, look at HerO as well, trying his hardest even though he ended up 0-4 anyways. I personally can understand the rationale behind Naniwa's move, but if we look at this from a broader scope of what Esports means to the Korean culture, what the integrity of each game is to them, then this is more serious than it seems.
I think it's also really sad many people here replied things such as "fuck esports mainstream bullshit", or "are you mad?" (to those who frown upon Naniwa's actions) and supporting Naniwa's actions in the most cliche "he's so badass, i am so counter-culture for supporting him"-attitude. I for one really enjoying each and every game, even when not much is on the line, because when I watch the GSL, i usually know for a fact that players do try even when nothing much is on the line. Like MC fighting his little heart out against DRG even though he would have gone through either way.
Also, what naniwa did can't be compared to the actions of Coca, because it was completely on his own will, he didn't consult with Nestea about throwing the match, etc, it was the spur of the moment stupid decision, nonetheless still a decision in very unprofessional and poor taste. This game is a competitive professional game, and it really does matter, I can't believe some people would argue that it's ok to do an action such as this. Would Nadal and Federer just double-fault all day in a exhibition match just to get it over with because it doesn't matter of the results? No, because professional competitive sports/games is about performance for the fans as well, you go in with the dignity of acknowledging that, many foreigners don't have as much respect for starcraft on the same level because of their ignorance of how Koreans percieve coompetitive gaming as a whole. The international scene may have more money, but it's clear from the responses of many people here that the prestige and essence of the game still lies in Korea where the game intrinsically matters more than just a few groups of cliche highschool kids going "u mad? lolololol".
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It's a pro players job to always try and provide entertaining games. Just because the game doesn't affect the outcome of this single tournament doesn't mean there shouldn't be repercussions to his actions. Naniwa doesn't give a shit about his fans, or really anyone else besides himself. I personally wouldn't ever rage about something like this, but the fact that he still has fan boys is hilarious.
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He's one in two players representing foreigners for blizzard cup. This is an embaressment.
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On December 13 2011 23:37 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:34 elt wrote:On December 13 2011 23:33 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 23:32 elt wrote:On December 13 2011 23:28 Femari wrote:
Okay I have a question to all the people defending Naniwa, what did you think of the CoCa/Byun incident? It was crap and idiotic by both players, some of the same people now spoke out then (e.g. Nestea). They got severely punished by their teams. I don't see your point? The point is if they are all for the punishments CoCa and Byun got and they're defending Naniwa then they're giant hypocrites. Oh shit, I completely misread your post sorry -.-;; Now I look like a dumbass... lol how can you even compared that with this? They agreed upon rigging the match VS NaNiwa pulled some probes and gg'd on a pointless match. You are fucking dumb dude.
They both threw the match. Both matches were pointless.
I don't see where you're coming from. It's the same thing. It's throwing a game.
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On December 13 2011 23:37 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:34 Pehrfect wrote:On December 13 2011 23:27 Itsmedudeman wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 13 2011 23:25 Mortal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:24 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 23:20 DarK[A] wrote:
I can't respect a player who just gives up, even when no advancement or prize money is on the line.
You know what my thrown-together volleyball teams record was this past season? 1-32. We won ONE game out of the 33 games we played (11 matches, three games per match.. the one game was against one of the bad teams, too). We showed up most weeks and had to play against kids fresh out of college who had played Division II/III volleyball. Every time we lost the first two games (thus losing the match) did we just stand there and let them serve it out? When we couldn't possibly make the playoffs anymore, did we just not show up to games? No, we showed up and played hard.
It doesn't even have to be a "traditional" sport. When I played CS and Quake competitively, you never saw players just throw games like this... especially not at a high level. When you get spawn killed a bunch of times in a row in Quake and you're all of a sudden down 10-0... do you just AFK or quit the game? No, you try to not get shut out. I remember one CS match we lost the first half like 12-3 or 11-4. We were devastated because we felt like that was our stronger side. But we collected ourselves in the FAR LESS THAN 10 minutes we got, and ended up coming back to tie it and win it in overtime. Did the match matter? Were we going to the playoffs? No. We just didn't want to be remembered as quitters.
I have so much respect for NesTea if that tweet is true. Such dedication to the game and to his career, only to have NaNiWa say "eh, I don't feel like playing right now". awwwwwwww sadface. Pffff.. grow the F up. The game was pointless. They can meet again when it actually matters. Quit being a melodramatic baby. Go to respond, see "Sweden." Nevermind No kidding.. swedish fans are insanely devoted it seems. Naniwa could probably get away with punching a baby. Or we're just slightly more rational than everyone else I have to agree with Tylers tweet. Some people seem to think that "if he had atleast done a proxy 10 Gate, it would be okay". In my mind that makes no difference. That's just enjoying the illusion of competition. Naniwa just took things to their logical conclusion. Yeah, go figure it's the swedish fans who would side with naniwa, who just by coincidence happens to be from sweden. I'm just gonna take the benefit of the doubt and say that not all swedish people would do something as retarded as this in naniwa's situation. Never could I imagine morrow or thorzain doing that. They would be happy to just play a game for their fans against the best players even if they had no chance of winning the group.
Same as americans would defend IdrA's behaviour i guess.
IdrA calling people he meet on ladder "shit, crap, worthless, fucking this, fucking that"
God knows what he says about progamers behind their backs.
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On December 13 2011 23:31 lovekr wrote:
So its ok for naniwa to behave anyway he likes disrespecting alot of people until his stupidity lose Quantic its sponsors, startale no longer want to provide space for sase to practice and esports falls ever more downwards in terns of respect?
shame on all these people upset by his action they should wise up!
lol how could naniwa get sase kicked out of the startale house at all? and especially, by just forfeiting games? listen to yourself... Plus, sase isn't in the ST-house right now, naniwa himself is though...
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Or we're just slightly more rational than everyone else
I have to agree with Tylers tweet. Some people seem to think that "if he had atleast done a proxy 10 Gate, it would be okay". In my mind that makes no difference. That's just enjoying the illusion of competition. Naniwa just took things to their logical conclusion.
While some people are definitely overreacting, if this kind of attitude becomes common in starcraft a lot of games would become very boring. A lot of matches are played "just for show" instead of for money and this attitude hurts all those games. What he did is in no way good for starcraft or the GSL. By worker rushing he flat out disrespected his fans.
Does that mean he should lose his tournament spot? No.
Does that mean he deserves all the hate he's getting? No.
Does that mean he should seriously work on his attitude because it's really hurting his image? Hell yes.
Just because someone does something right (occasionally plays entertaining games) does not mean he should be immediately excused of everything bad he does. People gave Stephano a lot of flack for that Complexity business because he was simply acting unprofessional, the same happened with IdrA when he was BMing everyone; just like they're giving Naniwa a lot of flack for acting unprofessional now. It's very justified.
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On December 13 2011 23:40 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:37 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 23:34 elt wrote:On December 13 2011 23:33 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 23:32 elt wrote:On December 13 2011 23:28 Femari wrote:
Okay I have a question to all the people defending Naniwa, what did you think of the CoCa/Byun incident? It was crap and idiotic by both players, some of the same people now spoke out then (e.g. Nestea). They got severely punished by their teams. I don't see your point? The point is if they are all for the punishments CoCa and Byun got and they're defending Naniwa then they're giant hypocrites. Oh shit, I completely misread your post sorry -.-;; Now I look like a dumbass... lol how can you even compared that with this? They agreed upon rigging the match VS NaNiwa pulled some probes and gg'd on a pointless match. You are fucking dumb dude. They both threw the match. Both matches were pointless. I don't see where you're coming from. It's the same thing. It's throwing a game.
CoCa threw the game in favour of Byun to get Code A status or what it was.
NaNiwa just threw the game because it was pointless and it didn't favour nestea eighter because he was already out aswell.
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On December 13 2011 23:38 MildSeven wrote:
Understanding this from the Korean perspective, what Naniwa did was absolutely taboo, because of the long Korean tradition and emphasis on trying your best even when it didn't affect results. Consider this, what would Boxer or NaDa do, look at HerO as well, trying his hardest even though he ended up 0-4 anyways. I personally can understand the rationale behind Naniwa's move, but if we look at this from a broader scope of what Esports means to the Korean culture, what the integrity of each game is to them, then this is more serious than it seems.
Well, that was still different, because even if it didn't matter to Hero, it mattered for his opponent and for the competition as a whole.
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After reading his interview saying the MVP team would not practice with him and then reading their comments I don't know if I should feel bad for Nani or not :/ It seems like no one there liked him, I can sort of understand him not wanting to be there anymore.
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On December 13 2011 23:40 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:37 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 23:34 elt wrote:On December 13 2011 23:33 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 23:32 elt wrote:On December 13 2011 23:28 Femari wrote:
Okay I have a question to all the people defending Naniwa, what did you think of the CoCa/Byun incident? It was crap and idiotic by both players, some of the same people now spoke out then (e.g. Nestea). They got severely punished by their teams. I don't see your point? The point is if they are all for the punishments CoCa and Byun got and they're defending Naniwa then they're giant hypocrites. Oh shit, I completely misread your post sorry -.-;; Now I look like a dumbass... lol how can you even compared that with this? They agreed upon rigging the match VS NaNiwa pulled some probes and gg'd on a pointless match. You are fucking dumb dude. They both threw the match. Both matches were pointless. I don't see where you're coming from. It's the same thing. It's throwing a game.
jesus maria.... byun vs coca was not pointless coz it could lead to a code a/s (dont know which) spot, and nani vs nestea on the other hand was completely and utterly pointless
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On December 13 2011 23:42 Presidenten wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:40 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 23:37 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 23:34 elt wrote:On December 13 2011 23:33 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 23:32 elt wrote:On December 13 2011 23:28 Femari wrote:
Okay I have a question to all the people defending Naniwa, what did you think of the CoCa/Byun incident? It was crap and idiotic by both players, some of the same people now spoke out then (e.g. Nestea). They got severely punished by their teams. I don't see your point? The point is if they are all for the punishments CoCa and Byun got and they're defending Naniwa then they're giant hypocrites. Oh shit, I completely misread your post sorry -.-;; Now I look like a dumbass... lol how can you even compared that with this? They agreed upon rigging the match VS NaNiwa pulled some probes and gg'd on a pointless match. You are fucking dumb dude. They both threw the match. Both matches were pointless. I don't see where you're coming from. It's the same thing. It's throwing a game. jesus maria.... byun vs coca was not pointless coz it could lead to a code a/s (dont know which) spot, and nani vs nestea on the other hand was completely and utterly pointless
exactly.
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On December 13 2011 23:42 Ponchey wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:38 MildSeven wrote:
Understanding this from the Korean perspective, what Naniwa did was absolutely taboo, because of the long Korean tradition and emphasis on trying your best even when it didn't affect results. Consider this, what would Boxer or NaDa do, look at HerO as well, trying his hardest even though he ended up 0-4 anyways. I personally can understand the rationale behind Naniwa's move, but if we look at this from a broader scope of what Esports means to the Korean culture, what the integrity of each game is to them, then this is more serious than it seems.
Well, that was still different, because even if it didn't matter to Hero, it mattered for his opponent and for the competition as a whole.
I didn't see people crying when Hero went Nexus first against MC, which has about as much of a chance winning as workerrushing.
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On December 13 2011 23:38 muffinsssss wrote:
It's a pro players job to always try and provide entertaining games. Just because the game doesn't affect the outcome of this single tournament doesn't mean there shouldn't be repercussions to his actions. Naniwa doesn't give a shit about his fans, or really anyone else besides himself. I personally wouldn't ever rage about something like this, but the fact that he still has fan boys is hilarious.
I'd say it's the pro players job to try to perform well in tournaments. Some people just want to watch good play, no need to play "entertaining games".
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On December 13 2011 23:38 MildSeven wrote:
Understanding this from the Korean perspective, what Naniwa did was absolutely taboo, because of the long Korean tradition and emphasis on trying your best even when it didn't affect results. Consider this, what would Boxer or NaDa do, look at HerO as well, trying his hardest even though he ended up 0-4 anyways. I personally can understand the rationale behind Naniwa's move, but if we look at this from a broader scope of what Esports means to the Korean culture, what the integrity of each game is to them, then this is more serious than it seems.
I think it's also really sad many people here replied things such as "fuck esports mainstream bullshit", or "are you mad?" (to those who frown upon Naniwa's actions) and supporting Naniwa's actions in the most cliche "he's so badass, i am so counter-culture for supporting him"-attitude. I for one really enjoying each and every game, even when not much is on the line, because when I watch the GSL, i usually know for a fact that players do try even when nothing much is on the line. Like MC fighting his little heart out against DRG even though he would have gone through either way.
Beyond this,
It's silly to argue with fanboys for naniwa, just like it was silly to argue with any other fanboy to see things rationally.
But aside from that, there is a standard for professionalism. And it's a standard that in general, koreans take very very seriously. It's something I wish we took as seriously. All the people defending such actions...I don't understand.
That doesn't mean anyone should really go out of their way just to badmouth someone ever, but to defend his actions and behavior either shows a lot of willful blindness, or a completely different view on how "serious" and legitimate esports is trying to be.
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On December 13 2011 23:40 Presidenten wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:31 lovekr wrote:
So its ok for naniwa to behave anyway he likes disrespecting alot of people until his stupidity lose Quantic its sponsors, startale no longer want to provide space for sase to practice and esports falls ever more downwards in terns of respect?
shame on all these people upset by his action they should wise up! lol how could naniwa get sase kicked out of the startale house at all? and especially, by just forfeiting games? listen to yourself... Plus, sase isn't in the ST-house right now, naniwa himself is though...
Throwing games brings a bad image and they could end a partnership due to image issues. You have to look good for sponsors.
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I also like the add that i don't think Choya should publically be so harsh about Naniwa considering his little ladder points scandal, Choya's actions in the past should be stigmatized far more than what Naniwa did.
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On December 13 2011 23:42 Presidenten wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:40 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 23:37 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 23:34 elt wrote:On December 13 2011 23:33 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 23:32 elt wrote:On December 13 2011 23:28 Femari wrote:
Okay I have a question to all the people defending Naniwa, what did you think of the CoCa/Byun incident? It was crap and idiotic by both players, some of the same people now spoke out then (e.g. Nestea). They got severely punished by their teams. I don't see your point? The point is if they are all for the punishments CoCa and Byun got and they're defending Naniwa then they're giant hypocrites. Oh shit, I completely misread your post sorry -.-;; Now I look like a dumbass... lol how can you even compared that with this? They agreed upon rigging the match VS NaNiwa pulled some probes and gg'd on a pointless match. You are fucking dumb dude. They both threw the match. Both matches were pointless. I don't see where you're coming from. It's the same thing. It's throwing a game. jesus maria.... byun vs coca was not pointless coz it could lead to a code a/s (dont know which) spot, and nani vs nestea on the other hand was completely and utterly pointless
It was because there was no deal for new spots for 2012. Mr. Chae himself stated this when the event happened.
This is well known. It's been known for a long time that at the time of the tournament there was no spot on the line at all.
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On December 13 2011 23:41 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:Show nested quote +Or we're just slightly more rational than everyone else
I have to agree with Tylers tweet. Some people seem to think that "if he had atleast done a proxy 10 Gate, it would be okay". In my mind that makes no difference. That's just enjoying the illusion of competition. Naniwa just took things to their logical conclusion. While some people are definitely overreacting, if this kind of attitude becomes common in starcraft a lot of games would become very boring. A lot of matches are played "just for show" instead of for money and this attitude hurts all those games. What he did is in no way good for starcraft or the GSL. By worker rushing he flat out disrespected his fans.Does that mean he should lose his tournament spot? No. Does that mean he deserves all the hate he's getting? No. Does that mean he should seriously work on his attitude because it's really hurting his image? Hell yes. Just because someone does something right (occasionally plays entertaining games) does not mean he should be immediately excused of everything bad he does. People gave Stephano a lot of flack for that Complexity business because he was simply acting unprofessional, the same happened with IdrA when he was BMing everyone; just like they're giving Naniwa a lot of flack for acting unprofessional now. It's very justified.
I as Naniwa fan dont feel offended at all. I think only ones offended in this whole history are Nestea fans. And only because Naniwa didnt give them chance to gloat how Nestea is awesome by wining against Nestea (if he would have won).
Honestly i dont like Korean culture. For me its full of bullshit hidden behind tradition.
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On December 13 2011 23:46 Nadarath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:41 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:Or we're just slightly more rational than everyone else
I have to agree with Tylers tweet. Some people seem to think that "if he had atleast done a proxy 10 Gate, it would be okay". In my mind that makes no difference. That's just enjoying the illusion of competition. Naniwa just took things to their logical conclusion. While some people are definitely overreacting, if this kind of attitude becomes common in starcraft a lot of games would become very boring. A lot of matches are played "just for show" instead of for money and this attitude hurts all those games. What he did is in no way good for starcraft or the GSL. By worker rushing he flat out disrespected his fans.Does that mean he should lose his tournament spot? No. Does that mean he deserves all the hate he's getting? No. Does that mean he should seriously work on his attitude because it's really hurting his image? Hell yes. Just because someone does something right (occasionally plays entertaining games) does not mean he should be immediately excused of everything bad he does. People gave Stephano a lot of flack for that Complexity business because he was simply acting unprofessional, the same happened with IdrA when he was BMing everyone; just like they're giving Naniwa a lot of flack for acting unprofessional now. It's very justified. I as Naniwa fan dont feel offended at all. I think only ones offended in this whole history are Nestea fans. And only because Naniwa didnt give them chance to gloat how Nestea is awesome by wining against Nestea (if he would have won). Honestly i dont like Korean culture. For me its full of bullshit hidden behind tradition.
Yes, because suddenly you have become an expert of understanding the nooks and crannies of the Korean culture.
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On December 13 2011 23:44 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:38 MildSeven wrote:
Understanding this from the Korean perspective, what Naniwa did was absolutely taboo, because of the long Korean tradition and emphasis on trying your best even when it didn't affect results. Consider this, what would Boxer or NaDa do, look at HerO as well, trying his hardest even though he ended up 0-4 anyways. I personally can understand the rationale behind Naniwa's move, but if we look at this from a broader scope of what Esports means to the Korean culture, what the integrity of each game is to them, then this is more serious than it seems.
I think it's also really sad many people here replied things such as "fuck esports mainstream bullshit", or "are you mad?" (to those who frown upon Naniwa's actions) and supporting Naniwa's actions in the most cliche "he's so badass, i am so counter-culture for supporting him"-attitude. I for one really enjoying each and every game, even when not much is on the line, because when I watch the GSL, i usually know for a fact that players do try even when nothing much is on the line. Like MC fighting his little heart out against DRG even though he would have gone through either way.
Beyond this, It's silly to argue with fanboys for naniwa, just like it was silly to argue with any other fanboy to see things rationally. But aside from that, there is a standard for professionalism. And it's a standard that in general, koreans take very very seriously. It's something I wish we took as seriously. All the people defending such actions...I don't understand. That doesn't mean anyone should really go out of their way just to badmouth someone ever, but to defend his actions and behavior either shows a lot of willful blindness, or a completely different view on how "serious" and legitimate esports is trying to be.
Then maybe the organizers should think about not making the players have to play a match that is totally pointless for the players since it doesn't lead to any advancement for any of the players.
That's exactly what it is. Pointless. A fight for nothing.
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Why is there so much fuss about a totally pointless match? They were both out of the tournament, I can understand people think it's BM when it still have effect for other players (like NASL where a bunch of people didn't play the final matches or when idra forfeited IPL groupplay, stephano sixpool etc) but this is just silly.
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The games didnt matter so it was pointless to play the games. And im sure the tournment will be fine without the game actually being played. Really the only people this effects are the fans who wanted to see nestea vs naniwa. At which point if it pisses you off that naniwa doesnt give a shit about his fans then stop supporting him.
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I as Naniwa fan dont feel offended at all. I think only ones offended in this whole history are Nestea fans. And only because Naniwa didnt give them chance to gloat how Nestea is awesome by wining against Nestea (if he would have won).
Honestly i dont like Korean culture. For me its full of bullshit hidden behind tradition.
It's cool that you don't feel "offended", but he is still dissapointing a lot of people. A lot of other (deserving) pro gamers could be in this high profile tournament instead of Naniwa and a lot of people paid or stayed up late to watch him play, and he's disrespecting every single one of those people. Regardless of if you feel "offended", you would've rather seen him play out his game and it's simply unprofessional not to do this.
And good job on shitting on an entire culture in one sentence. But don't worry, I personally don't feel offended by you offending Korean culture, so because one person doesn't it's probably alright.
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On December 13 2011 23:38 muffinsssss wrote:
It's a pro players job to always try and provide entertaining games. Just because the game doesn't affect the outcome of this single tournament doesn't mean there shouldn't be repercussions to his actions. Naniwa doesn't give a shit about his fans, or really anyone else besides himself. I personally wouldn't ever rage about something like this, but the fact that he still has fan boys is hilarious.
Nah actually its a pro players job to WIN games... everything else comes secondary truth be told.... and Naniwa on many occasions has thanked his fans.. I am a fan personally and I thought it was hilarious... I suppose you either love him or love to hate him
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It was a pointless match, and everyone was waiting to see who would do the cheesiest thing (I was sure this game wouldnt last 8 min.) And naniwa lost, gg, wtf more about it?
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if this was a such an important tournament why did half the players cheese gtfo. what naniwa did was fine, hes just a guy with a big ego.
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On December 13 2011 22:59 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:54 Vond wrote:
oh dear god...... oooooooh it's so terrible..... naniwa did a probe rush.... HE DESERVES DEATH PENALTY INFRONT OF A HUGE CROWD IN SEOUL.
oh jesus....... some people just likes to hate on anything they can get their hands on. People here should take a look at themselves also and think about how they act as persons.
It's not the fact that he proberushed. It's a cheese that can sometimes work. But a-moving the probes and then taking your hands off your keyboard in protest is not even close to being okay. "is not even close to being okay" lol. NaNiwa can do whatever he wants dude. And people can bitch about it how much they want. Atleast he is being himself and not some phony. He has guts. You make it sound like he did something really bad ^^ wich he didn't.
are you saying that playing a 2 minute game where you picked a "strategy" that had no chance of winning in an invite only tournament that 8 people in the world were invited to where most of them have won multiple tournaments, being one of only two non koreans is something NOT bad for his image as a professional gamer and his team's? he's living in a country where people highly prioritize showing respect for others, especially elders in a match being streamed across the globe and just because he was already mathematically eliminated, he should give up the chance to play a televised match against arguably the top zerg in the world in a very hyped up match to avoid being phony? like so many people have already said, their culture is big on respect, "i just want to show good games" is like the most common phrase ever. he isnt just playing football at recess against the 7th graders
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On December 13 2011 23:48 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:44 Angel_ wrote:On December 13 2011 23:38 MildSeven wrote:
Understanding this from the Korean perspective, what Naniwa did was absolutely taboo, because of the long Korean tradition and emphasis on trying your best even when it didn't affect results. Consider this, what would Boxer or NaDa do, look at HerO as well, trying his hardest even though he ended up 0-4 anyways. I personally can understand the rationale behind Naniwa's move, but if we look at this from a broader scope of what Esports means to the Korean culture, what the integrity of each game is to them, then this is more serious than it seems.
I think it's also really sad many people here replied things such as "fuck esports mainstream bullshit", or "are you mad?" (to those who frown upon Naniwa's actions) and supporting Naniwa's actions in the most cliche "he's so badass, i am so counter-culture for supporting him"-attitude. I for one really enjoying each and every game, even when not much is on the line, because when I watch the GSL, i usually know for a fact that players do try even when nothing much is on the line. Like MC fighting his little heart out against DRG even though he would have gone through either way.
Beyond this, It's silly to argue with fanboys for naniwa, just like it was silly to argue with any other fanboy to see things rationally. But aside from that, there is a standard for professionalism. And it's a standard that in general, koreans take very very seriously. It's something I wish we took as seriously. All the people defending such actions...I don't understand. That doesn't mean anyone should really go out of their way just to badmouth someone ever, but to defend his actions and behavior either shows a lot of willful blindness, or a completely different view on how "serious" and legitimate esports is trying to be. Then maybe the organizers should think about not making the players have to play a match that is totally pointless for the players since it doesn't lead to any advancement for any of the players. That's exactly what it is. Pointless. A fight for nothing.
Their tourney, their rules. If the players don't like it, they don't have to sign up for them. Nobody forced Nani to play in the tourney, he did it cause he wants to show the world he is the best.
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On December 13 2011 23:48 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:44 Angel_ wrote:On December 13 2011 23:38 MildSeven wrote:
Understanding this from the Korean perspective, what Naniwa did was absolutely taboo, because of the long Korean tradition and emphasis on trying your best even when it didn't affect results. Consider this, what would Boxer or NaDa do, look at HerO as well, trying his hardest even though he ended up 0-4 anyways. I personally can understand the rationale behind Naniwa's move, but if we look at this from a broader scope of what Esports means to the Korean culture, what the integrity of each game is to them, then this is more serious than it seems.
I think it's also really sad many people here replied things such as "fuck esports mainstream bullshit", or "are you mad?" (to those who frown upon Naniwa's actions) and supporting Naniwa's actions in the most cliche "he's so badass, i am so counter-culture for supporting him"-attitude. I for one really enjoying each and every game, even when not much is on the line, because when I watch the GSL, i usually know for a fact that players do try even when nothing much is on the line. Like MC fighting his little heart out against DRG even though he would have gone through either way.
Beyond this, It's silly to argue with fanboys for naniwa, just like it was silly to argue with any other fanboy to see things rationally. But aside from that, there is a standard for professionalism. And it's a standard that in general, koreans take very very seriously. It's something I wish we took as seriously. All the people defending such actions...I don't understand. That doesn't mean anyone should really go out of their way just to badmouth someone ever, but to defend his actions and behavior either shows a lot of willful blindness, or a completely different view on how "serious" and legitimate esports is trying to be. Then maybe the organizers should think about not making the players have to play a match that is totally pointless for the players since it doesn't lead to any advancement for any of the players. That's exactly what it is. Pointless. A fight for nothing.
Maybe Naniwa shouldn't agree to those terms then.
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This is why I love Naniwa
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On December 13 2011 23:41 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:
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What he did is in no way good for starcraft or the GSL. By worker rushing he flat out disrespected his fans.
...
Should it really be up to the players to always try to do what's "good for starcraft or the GSL"?
I can agree that this was probably not good for GOM/GSL, but in an international tournament like this, maybe GOM should have considered not showing games that don't matter in case something like this would happen.
Considering Naniwas fans, don't they realize this is his personality? Why support someone whose character you so fervently dislike?
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I love how its only <500 post count-ers who are the ones who connect with Nani's behavior and as such are trying desperately to deflect from/justify it lol
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On December 13 2011 23:46 Nadarath wrote:
Honestly i dont like Korean culture. For me its full of bullshit hidden behind tradition.
Just quoting this for some extra attention. The shit he gets from the team twitters such as MVPs is redonk. How can they even say stuff like that about a fellow player.
Also I dont see people giving others nearly enough shit about the same thing. If I'm not mistaken Idra almost never plays out his placement matches at MLGs and such and that is what this game was right? A placement match.
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MC just posted this:
오늘 경기를 보고 할말을 잃었다 정말 프로라는 단어를 알기는 하는걸까 나의 프로패셔널 마인드의 롤모델은 화이트라 아저씨다. 팬들을 정말 사랑하며 정말 끝까지 경기를 포기하지않고 모든사람에게 친절하다. 화이트라 아저씨를 싫어하는사람이 있을까?
Edit this to:
나니와가 화이트라 아저씨를 보고 좀 마인드를 바꿨으면 좋겠다. 상대방 생각도안하고 그런식의 행동은 올바르지 않다고생각한다. 만약 내가 3승0패 1위진출확정이고 나니와가 0승3패인데 난 어차피 1위니까 너랑 게임 안해라고 하고 시작하자마자 gg치면
2nd edit ^^:
자신의 기분이 어떨지는 생각했으면 좋겠다. 뭐 돈이 안걸려있으니까 상관없다라고하면 더이상 해줄말은 없다 그냥 너는 프로가 아니다라는 말만 해주고싶을뿐. 나니와를 보며 어제 지고나서 정말 분해하던 현덕이형이 정말 멋있게 느껴질뿐이다.
Anybody that can translate?
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Terran were doing marine scv all in since day 1, Naniwa just showed the new toss metagame, probe and nothing else rush! trolololol
Koreans as usual have no sense of what sports are all about, it's normal that a person will underperform in a tournament if his previous games were completely shit, see football worldcups, or any other sport you wanna mention, teams will do this shit and so will single players. Plus as Naniwa said, he could've just 4gated or double proxy gate some cheese action and lose anyway, instead he decided to just worker rush same deal same result.
Stop whining moralists, Naniwa deserves to be where he is cause when it counts he plays his A game, the games he played before the Nestea game prove it as he went heads to heads every game.
To the Koreans players who said "disrespectful to who couldnt participate to the tournament", F**K off and practice harder so maybe next time if you don't suck you might be there instead of wasting time minding about other ppl's actions!
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On December 13 2011 23:54 Pehrfect wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:41 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:
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What he did is in no way good for starcraft or the GSL. By worker rushing he flat out disrespected his fans.
...
Should it really be up to the players to always try to do what's "good for starcraft or the GSL"? I can agree that this was probably not good for GOM/GSL, but in an international tournament like this, maybe GOM should have considered not showing games that don't matter in case something like this would happen.
they probably thought that with all the drama and "rivalry" between nani and nestea that the story behind the game was worth showing it..
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How he played doesn't change anything. Don't get you panties in a bunch.
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On December 13 2011 23:53 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:48 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 23:44 Angel_ wrote:On December 13 2011 23:38 MildSeven wrote:
Understanding this from the Korean perspective, what Naniwa did was absolutely taboo, because of the long Korean tradition and emphasis on trying your best even when it didn't affect results. Consider this, what would Boxer or NaDa do, look at HerO as well, trying his hardest even though he ended up 0-4 anyways. I personally can understand the rationale behind Naniwa's move, but if we look at this from a broader scope of what Esports means to the Korean culture, what the integrity of each game is to them, then this is more serious than it seems.
I think it's also really sad many people here replied things such as "fuck esports mainstream bullshit", or "are you mad?" (to those who frown upon Naniwa's actions) and supporting Naniwa's actions in the most cliche "he's so badass, i am so counter-culture for supporting him"-attitude. I for one really enjoying each and every game, even when not much is on the line, because when I watch the GSL, i usually know for a fact that players do try even when nothing much is on the line. Like MC fighting his little heart out against DRG even though he would have gone through either way.
Beyond this, It's silly to argue with fanboys for naniwa, just like it was silly to argue with any other fanboy to see things rationally. But aside from that, there is a standard for professionalism. And it's a standard that in general, koreans take very very seriously. It's something I wish we took as seriously. All the people defending such actions...I don't understand. That doesn't mean anyone should really go out of their way just to badmouth someone ever, but to defend his actions and behavior either shows a lot of willful blindness, or a completely different view on how "serious" and legitimate esports is trying to be. Then maybe the organizers should think about not making the players have to play a match that is totally pointless for the players since it doesn't lead to any advancement for any of the players. That's exactly what it is. Pointless. A fight for nothing. Maybe Naniwa shouldn't agree to those terms then.
And what term that he agreed on did he break???? Can you link me the rule that state you are not alowed to worker rush?
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Im gonna clear some things up before im done for today ^^
1. I love South-Korea and the people. (except for the jackasses talking smack about naniwa).
2. I can understand why some naniwa fans who are not as hardcore of a fan as i am can get dissapointed by NaNiwa's decision to just throw that game.
3. But for god sake........ don't jump @ his personality. It was a game that didn't matter since it was pointless. You should know that NaNiwa has a huge winning ego (when there's something to fight for).
He gets in his gaming-mode and does whatever he wants. It has nothing to do with what he's like in real life etc. Because in real life he's not in game-mode where all he cares about is winning. So don't judge the guy so hard. People are being way to hatefull on him as a person here.
You don't actually know him irl. I don't eighter. But i have enough iq to not judge him from behind a monitor.
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NaNiwa best Toss in world, Koreans are just hypocrites
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On December 13 2011 23:56 romanov wrote:
MC just posted this:
오늘 경기를 보고 할말을 잃었다 정말 프로라는 단어를 알기는 하는걸까 나의 프로패셔널 마인드의 롤모델은 화이트라 아저씨다. 팬들을 정말 사랑하며 정말 끝까지 경기를 포기하지않고 모든사람에게 친절하다. 화이트라 아저씨를 싫어하는사람이 있을까?
Edit this to:
나니와가 화이트라 아저씨를 보고 좀 마인드를 바꿨으면 좋겠다. 상대방 생각도안하고 그런식의 행동은 올바르지 않다고생각한다. 만약 내가 3승0패 1위진출확정이고 나니와가 0승3패인데 난 어차피 1위니까 너랑 게임 안해라고 하고 시작하자마자 gg치면
2nd edit ^^:
자신의 기분이 어떨지는 생각했으면 좋겠다. 뭐 돈이 안걸려있으니까 상관없다라고하면 더이상 해줄말은 없다 그냥 너는 프로가 아니다라는 말만 해주고싶을뿐. 나니와를 보며 어제 지고나서 정말 분해하던 현덕이형이 정말 멋있게 느껴질뿐이다.
Anybody that can translate?
Say you lost the game today to see to know what the word really pro's that tell of my professional mind is Mr. Sandy Trapani rolmodeleun whiteboards. I really love the fans and the game does not give up until the end is kind to everyone. Travelers who do not like Uncle whiteboards?
Travelers came to see Uncle Henry and the whiteboards to be updated I'd mind. Design and conduct that kind of person I think that is not correct. I ^ 3 1 0 L is defined output wijin Naniwa 0 W 3 paeinde I called anyway and do not start a game with you as soon as winikka hit gg
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On December 13 2011 23:57 aderum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:53 Femari wrote:On December 13 2011 23:48 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 23:44 Angel_ wrote:On December 13 2011 23:38 MildSeven wrote:
Understanding this from the Korean perspective, what Naniwa did was absolutely taboo, because of the long Korean tradition and emphasis on trying your best even when it didn't affect results. Consider this, what would Boxer or NaDa do, look at HerO as well, trying his hardest even though he ended up 0-4 anyways. I personally can understand the rationale behind Naniwa's move, but if we look at this from a broader scope of what Esports means to the Korean culture, what the integrity of each game is to them, then this is more serious than it seems.
I think it's also really sad many people here replied things such as "fuck esports mainstream bullshit", or "are you mad?" (to those who frown upon Naniwa's actions) and supporting Naniwa's actions in the most cliche "he's so badass, i am so counter-culture for supporting him"-attitude. I for one really enjoying each and every game, even when not much is on the line, because when I watch the GSL, i usually know for a fact that players do try even when nothing much is on the line. Like MC fighting his little heart out against DRG even though he would have gone through either way.
Beyond this, It's silly to argue with fanboys for naniwa, just like it was silly to argue with any other fanboy to see things rationally. But aside from that, there is a standard for professionalism. And it's a standard that in general, koreans take very very seriously. It's something I wish we took as seriously. All the people defending such actions...I don't understand. That doesn't mean anyone should really go out of their way just to badmouth someone ever, but to defend his actions and behavior either shows a lot of willful blindness, or a completely different view on how "serious" and legitimate esports is trying to be. Then maybe the organizers should think about not making the players have to play a match that is totally pointless for the players since it doesn't lead to any advancement for any of the players. That's exactly what it is. Pointless. A fight for nothing. Maybe Naniwa shouldn't agree to those terms then. And what term that he agreed on did he break???? Can you link me the rule that state you are not alowed to worker rush?
I'm talking about the whole playing pointless matches thing. If he feels like he doesn't have to play a pointless match, which he has since stated in the post match interview, he shouldn't agree to play all the matches no matter what the result.
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Fuck choya
User was temp banned for this post.
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I don't get the big deal...
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On December 13 2011 23:59 BananaMann wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:56 romanov wrote:
MC just posted this:
오늘 경기를 보고 할말을 잃었다 정말 프로라는 단어를 알기는 하는걸까 나의 프로패셔널 마인드의 롤모델은 화이트라 아저씨다. 팬들을 정말 사랑하며 정말 끝까지 경기를 포기하지않고 모든사람에게 친절하다. 화이트라 아저씨를 싫어하는사람이 있을까?
Edit this to:
나니와가 화이트라 아저씨를 보고 좀 마인드를 바꿨으면 좋겠다. 상대방 생각도안하고 그런식의 행동은 올바르지 않다고생각한다. 만약 내가 3승0패 1위진출확정이고 나니와가 0승3패인데 난 어차피 1위니까 너랑 게임 안해라고 하고 시작하자마자 gg치면
2nd edit ^^:
자신의 기분이 어떨지는 생각했으면 좋겠다. 뭐 돈이 안걸려있으니까 상관없다라고하면 더이상 해줄말은 없다 그냥 너는 프로가 아니다라는 말만 해주고싶을뿐. 나니와를 보며 어제 지고나서 정말 분해하던 현덕이형이 정말 멋있게 느껴질뿐이다.
Anybody that can translate? Say you lost the game today to see to know what the word really pro's that tell of my professional mind is Mr. Sandy Trapani rolmodeleun whiteboards. I really love the fans and the game does not give up until the end is kind to everyone. Travelers who do not like Uncle whiteboards? Travelers came to see Uncle Henry and the whiteboards to be updated I'd mind. Design and conduct that kind of person I think that is not correct. I ^ 3 1 0 L is defined output wijin Naniwa 0 W 3 paeinde I called anyway and do not start a game with you as soon as winikka hit gg
Thank you for google translating, I never thought of that before...
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On December 13 2011 23:59 BananaMann wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:56 romanov wrote:
MC just posted this:
오늘 경기를 보고 할말을 잃었다 정말 프로라는 단어를 알기는 하는걸까 나의 프로패셔널 마인드의 롤모델은 화이트라 아저씨다. 팬들을 정말 사랑하며 정말 끝까지 경기를 포기하지않고 모든사람에게 친절하다. 화이트라 아저씨를 싫어하는사람이 있을까?
Edit this to:
나니와가 화이트라 아저씨를 보고 좀 마인드를 바꿨으면 좋겠다. 상대방 생각도안하고 그런식의 행동은 올바르지 않다고생각한다. 만약 내가 3승0패 1위진출확정이고 나니와가 0승3패인데 난 어차피 1위니까 너랑 게임 안해라고 하고 시작하자마자 gg치면
2nd edit ^^:
자신의 기분이 어떨지는 생각했으면 좋겠다. 뭐 돈이 안걸려있으니까 상관없다라고하면 더이상 해줄말은 없다 그냥 너는 프로가 아니다라는 말만 해주고싶을뿐. 나니와를 보며 어제 지고나서 정말 분해하던 현덕이형이 정말 멋있게 느껴질뿐이다.
Anybody that can translate? Say you lost the game today to see to know what the word really pro's that tell of my professional mind is Mr. Sandy Trapani rolmodeleun whiteboards. I really love the fans and the game does not give up until the end is kind to everyone. Travelers who do not like Uncle whiteboards? Travelers came to see Uncle Henry and the whiteboards to be updated I'd mind. Design and conduct that kind of person I think that is not correct. I ^ 3 1 0 L is defined output wijin Naniwa 0 W 3 paeinde I called anyway and do not start a game with you as soon as winikka hit gg
jesus
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United Kingdom20284 Posts
I dont understand what the big deal is, r/starcraft etc has like 50 posts about this... He probe rushed in a game that didnt matter, so what? They were both out anyway
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On December 13 2011 23:49 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:Show nested quote +I as Naniwa fan dont feel offended at all. I think only ones offended in this whole history are Nestea fans. And only because Naniwa didnt give them chance to gloat how Nestea is awesome by wining against Nestea (if he would have won).
Honestly i dont like Korean culture. For me its full of bullshit hidden behind tradition. It's cool that you don't feel "offended", but he is still dissapointing a lot of people. A lot of other (deserving) pro gamers could be in this high profile tournament instead of Naniwa and a lot of people paid or stayed up late to watch him play, and he's disrespecting every single one of those people. Regardless of if you feel "offended", you would've rather seen him play out his game and it's simply unprofessional not to do this. And good job on shitting on an entire culture in one sentence. But don't worry, I personally don't feel offended by you offending Korean culture, so because one person doesn't it's probably alright.
Honestly I have mixed feelings about this whole match. For one I am a bit disappointed that I didn´t get to see them play, but at the same time if you are a fan of Naniwa you are a fan of his desire to be the best at all costs. He wants to win when it matters ergo he can be very tilted when he loses. If he feels that they won´t play at their best since noone has anything to lose or win then in Naniwas tilted eyes there is no point.
If GOM would have been smart about it they would atleast let them play before the group play. All players agree BO1 is frustrating, then add the frustration of beeing "cheezed" out in all of your games and then be forced to play a showmatch.
I am biased as I am a fan of Naniwa since I think his play at the MLGs with the FF and decision making was flawless. On top of that I fukking hate short cheeze games no matter who played and who won/lost. When anyone(including koreans) cheezes to a fast win I feel disappointed but hey noone is ever complaining about rock scissor paper. Would it have been so much more fullfilling if let´s say Nestea would have 6 pooled Naniwa for the win instead of Naniwa prushing with probes? According to alot of people here that would be fully acceptable and not BM/disrespect although I find it f'ing disgusting.
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@oGsMC
After watching today's games I lost all words. Does he know the meaning of the word "pro". The role model for my professional mindset is Mr. WhiteRa. He really loves his fans and never gives up and is nice to everyone. Is there anyone that hates WhiteRa? I hope Naniwa can look at WhiteRa and change his mindset a bit. He doesn't even think about his opponent and in my opinion that sort of behaviour isn't right. If I had 3 wins and 0 losses and was already guaranteed first place while Naniwa was at 0 wins and 3 losses I wonder what he'd think if I just gg'ed out straight away since I'm already 1st and don't want to play him. If he says it doesn't matter because there's no money on the line then I don't think there's anything else I could say except that you are not a pro. After seeing what Naniwa did it makes me think that HerO who was really disappointed in himself after losing is a really amazing person.
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I realy cant believe that naniwa did that i know he has some manner problems, but this this is just stupit actually u can clearly say that bronse league players would of had a better chance there cause i mean WHAT .... speechless!
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On December 13 2011 23:55 See.Blue wrote:
I love how its only <500 post count-ers who are the ones who connect with Nani's behavior and as such are trying desperately to deflect from/justify it lol
Yes, because post count is highly relevant and gives your opinions way more substance.
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On December 13 2011 23:48 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:44 Angel_ wrote:On December 13 2011 23:38 MildSeven wrote:
Understanding this from the Korean perspective, what Naniwa did was absolutely taboo, because of the long Korean tradition and emphasis on trying your best even when it didn't affect results. Consider this, what would Boxer or NaDa do, look at HerO as well, trying his hardest even though he ended up 0-4 anyways. I personally can understand the rationale behind Naniwa's move, but if we look at this from a broader scope of what Esports means to the Korean culture, what the integrity of each game is to them, then this is more serious than it seems.
I think it's also really sad many people here replied things such as "fuck esports mainstream bullshit", or "are you mad?" (to those who frown upon Naniwa's actions) and supporting Naniwa's actions in the most cliche "he's so badass, i am so counter-culture for supporting him"-attitude. I for one really enjoying each and every game, even when not much is on the line, because when I watch the GSL, i usually know for a fact that players do try even when nothing much is on the line. Like MC fighting his little heart out against DRG even though he would have gone through either way.
Beyond this, It's silly to argue with fanboys for naniwa, just like it was silly to argue with any other fanboy to see things rationally. But aside from that, there is a standard for professionalism. And it's a standard that in general, koreans take very very seriously. It's something I wish we took as seriously. All the people defending such actions...I don't understand. That doesn't mean anyone should really go out of their way just to badmouth someone ever, but to defend his actions and behavior either shows a lot of willful blindness, or a completely different view on how "serious" and legitimate esports is trying to be. Then maybe the organizers should think about not making the players have to play a match that is totally pointless for the players since it doesn't lead to any advancement for any of the players. That's exactly what it is. Pointless. A fight for nothing.
You really think that a match that's technically pointless where he had the chance to overcome nestea in a real game and show that he was capable of giving his best even though it was pointless....
is nothing?
-
and you're seriously blaming the organizers a player being a shit?
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Kennigit Americans saying it hasn't happened in NBA/NFL. This happened in premiere league though - thanks @Ingebrigtsen93 http://t.co/wxklNgxL
really great tweet from kenningit
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On December 14 2011 00:04 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:48 Waterflow wrote:On December 13 2011 23:44 Angel_ wrote:On December 13 2011 23:38 MildSeven wrote:
Understanding this from the Korean perspective, what Naniwa did was absolutely taboo, because of the long Korean tradition and emphasis on trying your best even when it didn't affect results. Consider this, what would Boxer or NaDa do, look at HerO as well, trying his hardest even though he ended up 0-4 anyways. I personally can understand the rationale behind Naniwa's move, but if we look at this from a broader scope of what Esports means to the Korean culture, what the integrity of each game is to them, then this is more serious than it seems.
I think it's also really sad many people here replied things such as "fuck esports mainstream bullshit", or "are you mad?" (to those who frown upon Naniwa's actions) and supporting Naniwa's actions in the most cliche "he's so badass, i am so counter-culture for supporting him"-attitude. I for one really enjoying each and every game, even when not much is on the line, because when I watch the GSL, i usually know for a fact that players do try even when nothing much is on the line. Like MC fighting his little heart out against DRG even though he would have gone through either way.
Beyond this, It's silly to argue with fanboys for naniwa, just like it was silly to argue with any other fanboy to see things rationally. But aside from that, there is a standard for professionalism. And it's a standard that in general, koreans take very very seriously. It's something I wish we took as seriously. All the people defending such actions...I don't understand. That doesn't mean anyone should really go out of their way just to badmouth someone ever, but to defend his actions and behavior either shows a lot of willful blindness, or a completely different view on how "serious" and legitimate esports is trying to be. Then maybe the organizers should think about not making the players have to play a match that is totally pointless for the players since it doesn't lead to any advancement for any of the players. That's exactly what it is. Pointless. A fight for nothing. You really think that a match that's technically pointless where he had the chance to overcome nestea in a real game and show that he was capable of giving his best even though it was pointless.... is nothing? - and you're seriously blaming the organizers a player being a shit?
It was a showmatch. Same things happens at MLG - or did with the old format - in groupstages.
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even mc is a whitera fan
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On December 14 2011 00:02 Clefairy wrote:
@oGsMC
After watching today's games I lost all words. Does he know the meaning of the word "pro". The role model for my professional mindset is Mr. WhiteRa. He really loves his fans and never gives up and is nice to everyone. Is there anyone that hates WhiteRa? I hope Naniwa can look at WhiteRa and change his mindset a bit. He doesn't even think about his opponent and in my opinion that sort of behaviour isn't right. If I had 3 wins and 0 losses and was already guaranteed first place while Naniwa was at 0 wins and 3 losses I wonder what he'd think if I just gg'ed out straight away since I'm already 1st and don't want to play him. If he says it doesn't matter because there's no money on the line then I don't think there's anything else I could say except that you are not a pro. After seeing what Naniwa did it makes me think that HerO who was really disappointed in himself after losing is a really amazing person.
This made me happy inside. I love MC so much.
Can you translate the tweets between MC and Nestea?
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On December 14 2011 00:01 Cyro wrote:
I dont understand what the big deal is, r/starcraft etc has like 50 posts about this... He probe rushed in a game that didnt matter, so what? They were both out anyway
Overreacting dramaqueens with no testicles who feel bad about their situation in life taking out their rage on a guy probe rushing in a pointless game. That pretty much sums it up i guess?
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On December 14 2011 00:02 Clefairy wrote:
@oGsMC
After watching today's games I lost all words. Does he know the meaning of the word "pro". The role model for my professional mindset is Mr. WhiteRa. He really loves his fans and never gives up and is nice to everyone. Is there anyone that hates WhiteRa? I hope Naniwa can look at WhiteRa and change his mindset a bit. He doesn't even think about his opponent and in my opinion that sort of behaviour isn't right. If I had 3 wins and 0 losses and was already guaranteed first place while Naniwa was at 0 wins and 3 losses I wonder what he'd think if I just gg'ed out straight away since I'm already 1st and don't want to play him. If he says it doesn't matter because there's no money on the line then I don't think there's anything else I could say except that you are not a pro. After seeing what Naniwa did it makes me think that HerO who was really disappointed in himself after losing is a really amazing person.
Wow MC really knows how to tell a story, feel even worse for herO now
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On December 14 2011 00:06 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:01 Cyro wrote:
I dont understand what the big deal is, r/starcraft etc has like 50 posts about this... He probe rushed in a game that didnt matter, so what? They were both out anyway Overreacting dramaqueens with no testicles who feel bad about their situation in life taking out their rage on a guy probe rushing in a pointless game. That pretty much sums it up i guess?
More like people who don't tolerate throwing matches.
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i think this is all a slight overreaction, since it's not like the first time this has happened or will it be the last. naniwa simply took a more direct route... essentially giving the middle finger to the spirit of competition whereas others have done it more discretely. feels like he's being targetted because of his previous history, because as someone had said, if nestea just 6pooled him on the spot, this whole fiasco likely wouldn't have existed, though the circumstances would have been similar.
though either way, it doesn't make what he did right. pretty bone headed move to not think about the consequences and the paying viewers, as well as embarassing his team, fans, and sponsors with something like this. really limits his own options in the future, as i think any team thinking of taking him on is now more wary than ever about the package that comes with signing him.
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On December 14 2011 00:02 Clefairy wrote:
@oGsMC
After watching today's games I lost all words. Does he know the meaning of the word "pro". The role model for my professional mindset is Mr. WhiteRa. He really loves his fans and never gives up and is nice to everyone. Is there anyone that hates WhiteRa? I hope Naniwa can look at WhiteRa and change his mindset a bit. He doesn't even think about his opponent and in my opinion that sort of behaviour isn't right. If I had 3 wins and 0 losses and was already guaranteed first place while Naniwa was at 0 wins and 3 losses I wonder what he'd think if I just gg'ed out straight away since I'm already 1st and don't want to play him. If he says it doesn't matter because there's no money on the line then I don't think there's anything else I could say except that you are not a pro. After seeing what Naniwa did it makes me think that HerO who was really disappointed in himself after losing is a really amazing person.
Wow MC, nicely said. I cant disagree with any of that.
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The BossToss droppin the knowledge.
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On December 14 2011 00:08 mcmartini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:02 Clefairy wrote:
@oGsMC
After watching today's games I lost all words. Does he know the meaning of the word "pro". The role model for my professional mindset is Mr. WhiteRa. He really loves his fans and never gives up and is nice to everyone. Is there anyone that hates WhiteRa? I hope Naniwa can look at WhiteRa and change his mindset a bit. He doesn't even think about his opponent and in my opinion that sort of behaviour isn't right. If I had 3 wins and 0 losses and was already guaranteed first place while Naniwa was at 0 wins and 3 losses I wonder what he'd think if I just gg'ed out straight away since I'm already 1st and don't want to play him. If he says it doesn't matter because there's no money on the line then I don't think there's anything else I could say except that you are not a pro. After seeing what Naniwa did it makes me think that HerO who was really disappointed in himself after losing is a really amazing person. Wow MC really knows how to tell a story, feel even worse for herO now
Hero had MC in his head, and his nerves, and opened with a funky build from an outsiders perspective I would GUESS because he had to do something other than his "norm" for pvp, or felt he needed to play off, or whatever other train of thought was going on. And he still went into that game planning to win and was disappointed and sad and apologizing to his fans for playing so badly at the end. But he tried all the way through to the end. That is what it means to be a professional.
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Personally I'd feel far more insulted and disrespected (which is to say, barely, because I'm not very invested) if the players played the match out and pretended it had value as a competitive game, or even that they tried their best.
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On December 14 2011 00:02 Clefairy wrote:
@oGsMC
After watching today's games I lost all words. Does he know the meaning of the word "pro". The role model for my professional mindset is Mr. WhiteRa. He really loves his fans and never gives up and is nice to everyone. Is there anyone that hates WhiteRa? I hope Naniwa can look at WhiteRa and change his mindset a bit. He doesn't even think about his opponent and in my opinion that sort of behaviour isn't right. If I had 3 wins and 0 losses and was already guaranteed first place while Naniwa was at 0 wins and 3 losses I wonder what he'd think if I just gg'ed out straight away since I'm already 1st and don't want to play him. If he says it doesn't matter because there's no money on the line then I don't think there's anything else I could say except that you are not a pro. After seeing what Naniwa did it makes me think that HerO who was really disappointed in himself after losing is a really amazing person.
How can it be that MC is younger than Naniwa but has so much more wisdom? For all that has been said on either side of this debate it was really nice to see MC lay it out so plainly, Naniwa did not act in a professional manner, here are the reasons why and presenting an example of what is a true professional gamer.
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MC's role model is White Ra. That is awesome.
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On December 14 2011 00:10 fush wrote:
i think this is all a slight overreaction, since it's not like the first time this has happened or will it be the last. naniwa simply took a more direct route... essentially giving the middle finger to the spirit of competition whereas others have done it more discretely. feels like he's being targetted because of his previous history, because as someone had said, if nestea just 6pooled him on the spot, this whole fiasco likely wouldn't have existed, though the circumstances would have been similar.
though either way, it doesn't make what he did right. pretty bone headed move to not think about the consequences and the paying viewers, as well as embarassing his team, fans, and sponsors with something like this. really limits his own options in the future, as i think any team thinking of taking him on is now more wary than ever about the package that comes with signing him.
Very fair post. The question for most people is when is he going to start thinking of the consequences? Not just for him, but for the sponsors, teams, fans, etc.
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On December 14 2011 00:06 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:01 Cyro wrote:
I dont understand what the big deal is, r/starcraft etc has like 50 posts about this... He probe rushed in a game that didnt matter, so what? They were both out anyway Overreacting dramaqueens with no testicles who feel bad about their situation in life taking out their rage on a guy probe rushing in a pointless game. That pretty much sums it up i guess?
Now you're just being rude. Be happy I don't know how to report posts (can't find a button) and quickly edit the post before anybody else does it. You're a Naniwa fan, fine, but others are more objective than you - which does not mean you have to insult them.
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On December 14 2011 00:13 zdfgucker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:06 Waterflow wrote:On December 14 2011 00:01 Cyro wrote:
I dont understand what the big deal is, r/starcraft etc has like 50 posts about this... He probe rushed in a game that didnt matter, so what? They were both out anyway Overreacting dramaqueens with no testicles who feel bad about their situation in life taking out their rage on a guy probe rushing in a pointless game. That pretty much sums it up i guess? Now you're just being rude. Be happy I don't know how to report posts (can't find a button) and quickly edit the post before anybody else does it. You're a Naniwa fan, fine, but others are more objective than you - which does not mean you have to insult them.
Meh. I think he was targetting the insult towards r/starcraft and not the people in this thread haha.
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I'm upset that that he disrespected his fans more than anything. I paid good money and stayed up till ungodly hours to watch HIS match vs. NesTea. I didn't give a shit that it meant virtually nothing but pride. Now I know truly all he cares about is his money.
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I just want to remind you that Coca got banned for doing something similar, just nor nearly as bad.
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IDRA HAS SPOKEN
idrajit Greg Fields
dont have meaningless matches if you want players to take them seriously.
On December 14 2011 00:14 Xadar wrote:
I just want to remind you that Coca got banned for doing something similar, just nor nearly as bad.
Those were all moves made by SlayerS. GOM doesn't have anything in place for something like this. Naniwa played a game - he obeyed fully in that sense. He didn't forfeit the match without playing or anything.
It will be interesting to see how Quantic responds to all this. Maybe the same with Startale (I hope they don't boot him).
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On December 13 2011 23:56 mmgironi wrote:
see football worldcups
In 2004, Russia was 0-3 in its groupe at the Euro UEFA Championship. They had to play Greece, the HOST of the cup, and beating them could have made them not pass the group, as they were 1/1/0 atm, like Spain.
They did fight to their best, and won the game 2-1. It was their only win of the whole champ.
Greece still made it through because Spain lost 0-1 to Portugal, and had scored less goals.
Greece went on to win the championship undefeated. Except by Russia, in pool plays, who did their best to offer a good showing and show their ability.
I'm sorry, but no, when you're passionated about your sport, you do your best. Whatever happens.
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On December 14 2011 00:06 Xaeldaren wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:02 Clefairy wrote:
@oGsMC
After watching today's games I lost all words. Does he know the meaning of the word "pro". The role model for my professional mindset is Mr. WhiteRa. He really loves his fans and never gives up and is nice to everyone. Is there anyone that hates WhiteRa? I hope Naniwa can look at WhiteRa and change his mindset a bit. He doesn't even think about his opponent and in my opinion that sort of behaviour isn't right. If I had 3 wins and 0 losses and was already guaranteed first place while Naniwa was at 0 wins and 3 losses I wonder what he'd think if I just gg'ed out straight away since I'm already 1st and don't want to play him. If he says it doesn't matter because there's no money on the line then I don't think there's anything else I could say except that you are not a pro. After seeing what Naniwa did it makes me think that HerO who was really disappointed in himself after losing is a really amazing person. This made me happy inside. I love MC so much. Can you translate the tweets between MC and Nestea?
T/N: MC called WhiteRa an ahjusshi which means old man in Korean. NesTea is around the same age as WhiteRa. Hyung is someone who is an older male that you are close with but not quite an old man.
NesTea: Minchul that means I'm an ahjusshi as well... Call him WhiteRa-hyung. You're beating me while I'm down.
MC: But WhiteRa ahjusshi is married keke
NesTea: kekekekeekekeke so that's how you categorize it??? kekeke If I let my temper have it's way I would have aspdifjapisdnbva (angry expressions).... I'm depressed keke I played like shit too keke
MC: You'll just have to be understanding. I don't think he's the type who would listen even if you said anything... Since you're the hyung you should just hold it in TT You did well today
NesTea: Sure keke Do well tomorrow keke All the Zergs are dying keke Sorry to Leenock TT kekeke
MC: kekeke I'll slay everyone and meet MVP
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100% in agreement with MC
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![[image loading]](http://s10.postimage.org/ccqifxjtl/u_mad.jpg)
>.<
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idrajit Greg Fields
dont have meaningless matches if you want players to take them seriously.
EDIT: I was slow :|
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LOL Naniwa. A lot of players would have killed to be in that tournament, and he probe rushes?
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On December 14 2011 00:15 Clefairy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:06 Xaeldaren wrote:On December 14 2011 00:02 Clefairy wrote:
@oGsMC
After watching today's games I lost all words. Does he know the meaning of the word "pro". The role model for my professional mindset is Mr. WhiteRa. He really loves his fans and never gives up and is nice to everyone. Is there anyone that hates WhiteRa? I hope Naniwa can look at WhiteRa and change his mindset a bit. He doesn't even think about his opponent and in my opinion that sort of behaviour isn't right. If I had 3 wins and 0 losses and was already guaranteed first place while Naniwa was at 0 wins and 3 losses I wonder what he'd think if I just gg'ed out straight away since I'm already 1st and don't want to play him. If he says it doesn't matter because there's no money on the line then I don't think there's anything else I could say except that you are not a pro. After seeing what Naniwa did it makes me think that HerO who was really disappointed in himself after losing is a really amazing person. This made me happy inside. I love MC so much. Can you translate the tweets between MC and Nestea? T/N: MC called WhiteRa an ahjusshi which means old man in Korean. NesTea is around the same age as WhiteRa. Hyung is someone who is an older male that you are close with but not quite an old man. NesTea: Minchul that means I'm an ahjusshi as well... Call him WhiteRa-hyung. You're beating me while I'm down. MC: But WhiteRa ahjusshi is married keke NesTea: kekekekeekekeke so that's how you categorize it??? kekeke If I let my temper have it's way I would have aspdifjapisdnbva (angry expressions).... I'm depressed keke I played like shit too keke MC: You'll just have to be understanding. I don't think he's the type who would listen even if you said anything... Since you're the hyung you should just hold it in TT You did well today NesTea: Sure keke Do well tomorrow keke All the Zergs are dying keke Sorry to Leenock TT kekeke MC: kekeke I'll slay everyone and meet MVP
Thank you! Much appreciated <3
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Wow I actually can't believe they are so upset.. they were both 0-3 for fuck sake who gives a shit, why are they taking it so personally.. If Nestea 12 drone rushed it would've been the funniest and greatest thing in the world but because it was Naniwa everyone's making a big deal..
Get the fuck over it, and double wow @ Choya, really dude, you're gonna call someone a bastard over twitter..
How dare anyone question Naniwa as a pro-gamer, he puts so much effort into his training and he decides one POINTLESS match isn't worth dragging out and all of a sudden he's some kind of disgrace to e-sports..
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He is a joke! That play was unforgivable as a progamer, shoulda gave the seed to a more suitable player.
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I guess Koreans are drama queens lol, when I read that nani did something bm I thought he had gone personal against someone not a frickin probe rush. Making so much drama of this is so stupid...
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hugely different sir, rushing 7 probes out without micro denotes 0% chance of victory unless your opponent decides to attack their own units.
6 pool is a silly move that has the potential of legitimately winning.
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The big difference is that he won something by losing that game. Not just 5 minutes of his life.
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hmmm anyone else wonder what MVP's problem was with Nani ebfore? Nani has already came out that they never use to try vs him when he did play them? Korean bias? Not helping? Did they already hate nani?And why? To come out witht hat twitter is harsh... did he do somethig to them?
Think we need a detective to come out and find out what :D So many quesitons so little answers :D
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This won't matter anyway. Naniwa won't last another year at this rate. It's not by pure coincidence and being unlucky that naniwa has had a shitstorm follow him his whole career, and it's only a matter of time (unless he REALLY REALLY changes his mindset) that he'll be able to overcome this.
On December 14 2011 00:24 Tommylew wrote:
hmmm anyone else wonder what MVP's problem was with Nani ebfore? Nani has already came out that they never use to try vs him when he did play them? Korean bias? Not helping? Did they already hate nani?And why? To come out witht hat twitter is harsh... did he do somethig to them?
Think we need a detective to come out and find out what :D So many quesitons so little answers :D
Who knows what went on when Naniwa was at the MVP house, but MVP didn't seem to have any problems with other coL members. We'll just have to see how naniwa works with ST. If it doesn't work out then I lose any glimmer of hope I might have left.
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On December 14 2011 00:23 Eee wrote:
I guess Koreans are drama queens lol, when I read that nani did something bm I thought he had gone personal against someone not a frickin probe rush. Making so much drama of this is so stupid...
On behalf of the drama queens, I apologize that Korean programers actually value their fans thus consider Naniwa's actions unprofessional.
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On December 14 2011 00:19 DNA.MPK wrote:
LOL Naniwa. A lot of players would have killed to be in that tournament, and he probe rushes?
He
was
already
eliminated
from
the
tournament
and
so
was
Nestea
+ Show Spoiler +the game meant nothing herp derp
User was temp banned for this post.
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On December 14 2011 00:24 Itsmedudeman wrote:
This won't matter anyway. Naniwa won't last another year at this rate. It's not by pure coincidence and being unlucky that naniwa has had a shitstorm follow him his whole career, and it's only a matter of time (unless he REALLY REALLY changes his mindset) that he'll be able to overcome this.
yeah, my thought when he went to korea... he wasn't even able to play in the german EPS, how should he be qualified to play in the GSL, which is located in korea and where you most probably need to think more about your actions than in germany... only chance for him would be to change a lot, however i feel it's hardly going to happen since naniwa has this mindset for several years now (although he changed a bit for the better, maybe because he is more successful than in warcraft3?)
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On December 14 2011 00:27 DeekZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:19 DNA.MPK wrote:
LOL Naniwa. A lot of players would have killed to be in that tournament, and he probe rushes? He was already eliminated from the tournament and so was Nestea + Show Spoiler +the game meant nothing herp derp
you cant drop a game like this when there is a production value behind. I mean he sent his probes to Nestea mainbase but he could have try a proxy 2 gates with zealots to show that he was kind of pissed to have loose vs cheesy play (polt, mma)
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So the match was meaningless. What's the fuss?
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On December 14 2011 00:31 Peksi wrote:
So the match was meaningless. What's the fuss?
a difference of perspectives basically.
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There you have it, bounty hunter lost sight of his money so he threw one.
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On December 14 2011 00:26 MayorITC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:23 Eee wrote:
I guess Koreans are drama queens lol, when I read that nani did something bm I thought he had gone personal against someone not a frickin probe rush. Making so much drama of this is so stupid... On behalf of the drama queens, I apologize that Korean programers actually value their fans thus consider Naniwa's actions unprofessional.
I think MC said it best, a professional gamer should try to give his best in every broadcast match, regardless of his mind set. It's an ideal, but one which can never be fully realized.
On the other hand, showmanship and fan service should never be valued higher than the competitive spirit, because that is what really keeps professional starcraft alive. I think it would be even more harmful if someone played only to entertain and not to win.
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While what he did was terrible, NaNiwa seems to have some psychiatric instability, and I can see him being overwhelmed by his defeat and thinking, why do I care so much? I think a lot of people could have this as a feeling. The difference is, most pro gamers would continue. But, I think it's best not to over-sensationalize this. It's a guy who hasn't left kid behind acting like a kid.
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On December 14 2011 00:33 Maenander wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:26 MayorITC wrote:On December 14 2011 00:23 Eee wrote:
I guess Koreans are drama queens lol, when I read that nani did something bm I thought he had gone personal against someone not a frickin probe rush. Making so much drama of this is so stupid... On behalf of the drama queens, I apologize that Korean programers actually value their fans thus consider Naniwa's actions unprofessional. I think MC said it best, a professional gamer should try to give his best in every broadcast match, regardless of his mind set. It's an ideal, but one which can never be fully realized. On the other hand, showmanship and fan service should never be valued higher than the competitive spirit, because that is what really keeps professional starcraft alive. I think it would be even more harmful if someone played only to entertain and not to win.
The job of a pro whatever, be it footballer, baseball player, SC2 player is to COMPETE, not just win. Yes I want to see my favorite teams and/or players win of course. But primarily I want to see them try their damn hardest to win and show some damn heart and passion for the game.
If you are only a fan of team or player(s) when they win, and don't watch them when they are losing but at least are trying their hardest, then that's being a bandwagoner, not a true fan.
Which is what MC was saying I believe
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On December 14 2011 00:33 Maenander wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:26 MayorITC wrote:On December 14 2011 00:23 Eee wrote:
I guess Koreans are drama queens lol, when I read that nani did something bm I thought he had gone personal against someone not a frickin probe rush. Making so much drama of this is so stupid... On behalf of the drama queens, I apologize that Korean programers actually value their fans thus consider Naniwa's actions unprofessional. I think MC said it best, a professional gamer should try to give his best in every broadcast match, regardless of his mind set. It's an ideal, but one which can never fully realized. On the other hand, showmanship and fan service should never be valued higher than the competitive spirit, because that is what really keeps professional starcraft alive. I think it would be even more harmful if someone played only to entertain and not to win.
Agreed. It's one thing to be a competitor, but realize why you're a competitor and it's because of your fans. They're your employers and you owe them some entertaining games. Meaningless in regards to the tournament or not, a lot of people were looking forward to Naniwa vs. Nestea SPECIFICALLY. Nestea himself was looking forward to it to try and redeem himself. Am I wrong to think that every single naniwa fan really wanted him to take a game off nestea at least before he got knocked out of the group?
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The worst in all this is Choay's twit. The guy have no shame.
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On December 14 2011 00:35 WhiteDog wrote:
The worst in all this is Choay's twit. The guy have no shame.
no ad hominem will u?
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On December 14 2011 00:30 JohnMatrix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:27 DeekZ wrote:On December 14 2011 00:19 DNA.MPK wrote:
LOL Naniwa. A lot of players would have killed to be in that tournament, and he probe rushes? He was already eliminated from the tournament and so was Nestea + Show Spoiler +the game meant nothing herp derp you cant drop a game like this when there is a production value behind. I mean he sent his probes to Nestea mainbase but he could have try a proxy 2 gates with zealots to show that he was kind of pissed to have loose vs cheesy play (polt, mma)
Are you people really that mad that you got robbed a match of proxy 2gate? Like, I'm sure everyone wanted to see a epic grudge match, where naniwa once again shows nestea who's the boss (lol), but there was nothing on the line for either player so expecting it to happen would have been naive. Big whoop.
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WAYYYYYYYYYYY too hash lol.
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Its all about motivation, i would not want to play in a tournament anymore when i basically already lost it, whats the point in playing with nothing on the line?
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I think people need to get over it. It was a game that didn't matter for him OR Nestea at that point. I can't blame him for wanting to get it over with.
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I don't have anything against naniwa, but the sole fact that this got so much attention probably means that no other progamer will want to ever do this. So it's a good thing in the end I guess...
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On December 14 2011 00:27 DeekZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:19 DNA.MPK wrote:
LOL Naniwa. A lot of players would have killed to be in that tournament, and he probe rushes? He was already eliminated from the tournament and so was Nestea + Show Spoiler +the game meant nothing herp derp
Yes the game meant exactly nothing... not like some people paid to watch them play or anything right? OH WAIT
people paid and stayed up late to watch these games and he basically shit on them..... completely unprofessional and entirely disrespectful to not only the fans but to Nestea as well.
Naniwa needs to grow a pair, suck it up, play and stop being such a little baby.
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On December 14 2011 00:27 DeekZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:19 DNA.MPK wrote:
LOL Naniwa. A lot of players would have killed to be in that tournament, and he probe rushes? He was already eliminated from the tournament and so was Nestea + Show Spoiler +the game meant nothing herp derp
justify it all you want (and i agree, it was meaningless). the tournament structure was garbage, but it's not gom's fault that he went 0-3. in the end, he made a bone headed move with no consideration to paying fans, his team, and his sponsors. how hard would it have been to go in with the mentality of it being a showmatch for the fans, one of the last ones of the year? instead he shows his immaturity, and shows the world how not to be a professional by directly shoving a middle finger to everyone who was watching at the time with his probe rush. what did he think the aftermath was going to be?
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What's the most angering is that Nestea practiced hard into the night to practice yesterday, even though it was his birthday.
Sad to read this
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So instead of blatantly loosing in a silly way they will be abit more smooth about it and do a poorly executed cheese instead?
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On December 14 2011 00:27 DeekZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:19 DNA.MPK wrote:
LOL Naniwa. A lot of players would have killed to be in that tournament, and he probe rushes? He was already eliminated from the tournament and so was Nestea + Show Spoiler +the game meant nothing herp derp
I think you and a lot of people fail to notice Naniwa is being PAID to play out his four games... roughly $900 usd in fact, which is a larger prize pool than a lot of weekly tournaments.
source: http://www.gomtv.net/2011blizzardcup/
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On December 14 2011 00:42 Umilard wrote:
So instead of blatantly loosing in a silly way they will be abit more smooth about it and do a poorly executed cheese instead?
yeh, 4 gate or proxy 2 gate would've been a better idea.
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Naniwa is really in deep shit now
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nani is such a disappointment
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On December 14 2011 00:46 FidoDido wrote:I think you and a lot of people fail to notice Naniwa is being PAID to play out his four games... roughly $900 usd in fact, which is a larger prize pool than a lot of weekly tournaments. source: http://www.gomtv.net/2011blizzardcup/
He did play them. Just probe rushed one.
On December 14 2011 00:42 Umilard wrote:
So instead of blatantly loosing in a silly way they will be abit more smooth about it and do a poorly executed cheese instead?
Yeah lol, I guess that's what people wanted. I was looking forward to their rematch but I stopped caring the second I knew they were both out. You just can't expect them to perform the same and give their 100% when there's nothing at stake (except some sort of e-honor I don't really care).
For the same reason you don't play the rest of the games in BoX if the other player has already won.
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On December 14 2011 00:27 DeekZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:19 DNA.MPK wrote:
LOL Naniwa. A lot of players would have killed to be in that tournament, and he probe rushes? He was already eliminated from the tournament and so was Nestea + Show Spoiler +the game meant nothing herp derp
Typing in such a retarded way doesn't make your point more valid
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I think a lot of the people who are supporting Naniwa are missing the entire point of the scene. Yes, in Naniwa's head, this tournament was just to win some money, and just, playing that game out was pointless for him.
But think about it, what is Naniwa's job? He is a pro gamer, he makes a living in e - sports, essentially, he is an entertainer. The blizzard cup is watched by so many people all over the world, and Naniwa basically forgot all everyone else, about the entire scene, about what was really important.
The next thing that's really starting to annoy me is how people are bashing the Koreans. I can't believe that there are still several narrow minded comments about how they are speaking about Naniwa. Seriously, take a step back and think about it, in Korea, pro gaming is actually a viable career path, if you're good, you can go do it, that's why the scene is so much more popular than non-Korean tournaments. What Naniwa did basically disrespected the entire community of pro gamers in Korea, imagine all the time that they have spent working just to get to the place that they are. The quote below from Guinea Pig illustrates this point, Naniwa literally insults the culture of Korea.
@MVPGuineapig: There's so many people who can't compete in leagues even if they want to.. are you mocking them?
Honestly, I was really disappointed with his decision, I respect the fact that he was honest about it, and didn't decide to just play a fake game, but even with no prize, Naniwa is a PROFESSIONAL entertainer, he's supposed to entertain, no matter what the circumstances.
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On December 14 2011 00:50 Peksi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:46 FidoDido wrote:I think you and a lot of people fail to notice Naniwa is being PAID to play out his four games... roughly $900 usd in fact, which is a larger prize pool than a lot of weekly tournaments. source: http://www.gomtv.net/2011blizzardcup/ He did play them. Just probe rushed one. Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:42 Umilard wrote:
So instead of blatantly loosing in a silly way they will be abit more smooth about it and do a poorly executed cheese instead? Yeah lol, I guess that's what people wanted. I was looking forward to their rematch but I stopped caring the second I knew they were both out. You just can't expect them to perform the same and give their 100% when there's nothing at stake (except some sort of e-honor I don't really care). For the same reason you don't play the rest of the games in BoX if the other player has already won.
Actually yes ou can expect them to perform as that is what they are being PAID to do. even if nothing is at stake, fans paid money to watch you play, fans stayed up late to watch you play show some fucking respect and have some pride. To me Naniwa pretty much acted like an annoying toddler throwing a tantrum in the toy aisle because he couldn't get his toy. Pathetic.
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Naniwa showed in the cruelest way, that GOMTV shouldn't use players to play retarded games for nothing, just for pleasure of crowd.
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People are ignoring the biggest part of these tweets for me.
White-Ra is apparently MC's role model. How awesome is that?
Burrowing again...
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On December 14 2011 00:57 Captain Peabody wrote:
People are ignoring the biggest part of these tweets for me.
White-Ra is apparently MC's role model. How awesome is that?
Burrowing again...
Agreed, screw Naniwa. This is way more important.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
Wow, way to overreact. Seriously, you people are angrier now than when Coca was banned for matchfixing. How screwed up is that?
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Oh man! MC is commenting like a baws (and he loves White-Ra (like everyone else) n__n~) President Toss for the win!
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I am not a Naniwa fan, but gomtv is to blame here. Why play a match that doesn't matter at all?
If you would fail 9 out of 10 tests at school and you'd know that the last test wouldn't matter, would you study for it? Nope. Would you make it? Nope.
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MC worded it the best, that sort of conduct is why White-Ra is so well loved by the community and he is inspiring not just because of his play but because of his character.
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On December 14 2011 00:04 MildSeven wrote:Kennigit Americans saying it hasn't happened in NBA/NFL. This happened in premiere league though - thanks @Ingebrigtsen93 http://t.co/wxklNgxL really great tweet from kenningit
I think this is a different situation.
In the premier league's case, the fact that a team play poorly affect an other one in the league.
In naniwa's case, it affected no players.
It may affect
-Fans : that gave them something to talk about...
-People on betting sites : They should know that betting is a risky move and that anything can happen in 1 match.
-Blizzard cup's crew : They did a very good job overall but this showed them that their bo1-one-game-after-another format was not that good.
Naniwa's behaviour was not professional but he doesn't deserve all the hate surrounding him atm.
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if the match is pointless why force them to play? they will play like shit anyway because they have no motivation and it will just be waste of time for everyone since there is nothing on the line.
it was wrong to do what he did but it was also wrong to force them to play if they dont want to
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On December 14 2011 00:56 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:50 Peksi wrote:On December 14 2011 00:46 FidoDido wrote:I think you and a lot of people fail to notice Naniwa is being PAID to play out his four games... roughly $900 usd in fact, which is a larger prize pool than a lot of weekly tournaments. source: http://www.gomtv.net/2011blizzardcup/ He did play them. Just probe rushed one. On December 14 2011 00:42 Umilard wrote:
So instead of blatantly loosing in a silly way they will be abit more smooth about it and do a poorly executed cheese instead? Yeah lol, I guess that's what people wanted. I was looking forward to their rematch but I stopped caring the second I knew they were both out. You just can't expect them to perform the same and give their 100% when there's nothing at stake (except some sort of e-honor I don't really care). For the same reason you don't play the rest of the games in BoX if the other player has already won. Actually yes ou can expect them to perform as that is what they are being PAID to do. even if nothing is at stake, fans paid money to watch you play, fans stayed up late to watch you play show some fucking respect and have some pride. To me Naniwa pretty much acted like an annoying toddler throwing a tantrum in the toy aisle because he couldn't get his toy. Pathetic.
As far as I know it's Quantic who pays Naniwa to play (or do whatever his contract says). Of course we can voice our opinion and people surely have done that. Also Naniwa didn't break any tournament rules.
I absolutely understand people are frustrated because people wanted to see these two players play a real game but in my opinion that couldn't be achieved anymore. They shouldn't have broadcasted the match.
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On December 14 2011 01:01 Zealously wrote:
Wow, way to overreact. Seriously, you people are angrier now than when Coca was banned for matchfixing. How screwed up is that?
Coca played out basically the entire game and GG'd to give his spot to a friend
Naniwa basically said Fuck you to fans and people who paid/and or stayed up late to watch him play.
both are unprofessional but at least what Coca did had good intentions behind it(Wanting his teammate/friend to advance)
Naniwa was just being a douche.
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On December 14 2011 01:04 Knutzi wrote:
if the match is pointless why force them to play? they will play like shit anyway because they have no motivation and it will just be waste of time for everyone since there is nothing on the line.
it was wrong to do what he did but it was also wrong to force them to play if they dont want to
Teams out of playoff contention play all the time... HINT HINT IT'S FOR THE FANS
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On December 14 2011 01:04 Peksi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:56 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On December 14 2011 00:50 Peksi wrote:On December 14 2011 00:46 FidoDido wrote:I think you and a lot of people fail to notice Naniwa is being PAID to play out his four games... roughly $900 usd in fact, which is a larger prize pool than a lot of weekly tournaments. source: http://www.gomtv.net/2011blizzardcup/ He did play them. Just probe rushed one. On December 14 2011 00:42 Umilard wrote:
So instead of blatantly loosing in a silly way they will be abit more smooth about it and do a poorly executed cheese instead? Yeah lol, I guess that's what people wanted. I was looking forward to their rematch but I stopped caring the second I knew they were both out. You just can't expect them to perform the same and give their 100% when there's nothing at stake (except some sort of e-honor I don't really care). For the same reason you don't play the rest of the games in BoX if the other player has already won. Actually yes ou can expect them to perform as that is what they are being PAID to do. even if nothing is at stake, fans paid money to watch you play, fans stayed up late to watch you play show some fucking respect and have some pride. To me Naniwa pretty much acted like an annoying toddler throwing a tantrum in the toy aisle because he couldn't get his toy. Pathetic. As far as I know it's Quantic who pays Naniwa to play (or do whatever his contract says). Of course we can voice our opinion and people surely have done that. Also Naniwa didn't break any tournament rules. I absolutely understand people are frustrated because people wanted to see these two players play a real game but in my opinion that couldn't be achieved anymore. They shouldn't have broadcasted the match.
Gom also paid 900$ for him to play 4 matches. so yea of course they are going to broadcast it. Sure its not against any rules but its complete disrespect to fans/nestea/gom and even quantic. plus it also show a total lack of professionalism on his part.
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On December 14 2011 01:06 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:04 Knutzi wrote:
if the match is pointless why force them to play? they will play like shit anyway because they have no motivation and it will just be waste of time for everyone since there is nothing on the line.
it was wrong to do what he did but it was also wrong to force them to play if they dont want to Teams out of playoff contention play all the time... HINT HINT IT'S FOR THE FANS
Don't the teams also own the stadiums and make money on ticket sales as well as food and beverage vendors?
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I just want to say that Idra 6pooling and Naniwa's 6 probe arent same because Idra did 6 pool because he was desperate to win not refusing to play meaningless game. Yes Idra do have bad personality as well, but he is not known for throwing up game or not gg in gsl match where lots of people are watchin.
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The more this stuff happens, the more I become sure that the engine that is #esports is powered by drama. I doubt that Nani + Nestea's game (even if moderately epic) would have received this much hype. But throw a bit of questionable decision making in and look at all these little tweeters and posters! So busy now! Clicking on links and giving websites hits feeding the chain of ESPORTS.
(inb4 You're a monster Zorg)
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Disrespectful to the fans? Don't know about that. Entertaining for the fans? Well we've certainly created more buzz that what would have been achieved after a standard game.
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maybe Gomtv should not pay out the $900 to the player who places last in the next Blizzard cup. lol
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whats most disappointing is people are cheering for naniwa and say "im so happy that those koreans are so pissed now hahahaha so funny" and we call this esports? I am very disappointed by naniwa's fans.
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On December 14 2011 01:11 hinnolinn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:06 Itsmedudeman wrote:On December 14 2011 01:04 Knutzi wrote:
if the match is pointless why force them to play? they will play like shit anyway because they have no motivation and it will just be waste of time for everyone since there is nothing on the line.
it was wrong to do what he did but it was also wrong to force them to play if they dont want to Teams out of playoff contention play all the time... HINT HINT IT'S FOR THE FANS Don't the teams also own the stadiums and make money on ticket sales as well as food and beverage vendors?
Yeah? Naniwa got payed to play in this event win or lose, and teams are expected to play the full duration of the season.
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On December 14 2011 01:11 hinnolinn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:06 Itsmedudeman wrote:On December 14 2011 01:04 Knutzi wrote:
if the match is pointless why force them to play? they will play like shit anyway because they have no motivation and it will just be waste of time for everyone since there is nothing on the line.
it was wrong to do what he did but it was also wrong to force them to play if they dont want to Teams out of playoff contention play all the time... HINT HINT IT'S FOR THE FANS Don't the teams also own the stadiums and make money on ticket sales as well as food and beverage vendors?
So because the pay scale is smaller(Naniwa still gets paid to play by both quantic and gom for this tourny. and gom makes money off ads and selling the stream) that makes it okay? So until E sports team can own stadiums its okay for players to say fuck it and not play?
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JYP and Keen's tweets reflect how I feel about their tweets. Nearly spit out my coffee. But <3 MC's response, and surprised how calm Nestea is about this, although I'm sure he's angry about it at the moment and probably should be the angriest of them all (assuming he really wanted to play Naniwa and payback for Providence).
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So if you suffer a bad loss in the groups early on, do you think you can bounce back?
It doesn't matter to me in other games if I win or lose the previous match, I just treat each match like it's the same thing, and give it my best.
Very interesting, what Naniwa said before in interview :D
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On December 14 2011 01:13 garlicface wrote:
Disrespectful to the fans? Don't know about that. Entertaining for the fans? Well we've certainly created more buzz that what would have been achieved after a standard game.
How is it not disrespect? I paid money and stayed up till early in the morning to watch these games, and he probe rushes? I don't see how thats not disrespect?
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For those who are wondering what has happened. Look here:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Vb0yn.gif)
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On December 14 2011 01:14 BaekHo wrote:
whats most disappointing is people are cheering for naniwa and say "im so happy that those koreans are so pissed now hahahaha so funny" and we call this esports? I am very disappointed by naniwa's fans.
actually majority cant see why the koreans have made such a big fuss. I wouldnt say im happy but im not disapointed eithier, the game was for nothing, nani gained nothing from winning or losing, the person he was playign also gained nothing. People are also commenting that apparently hes a performing monkey and he had to play 100% to win everys ignle time he plays!!! People are also annoyed that Idra plays like this at times but its ok but nto for others...
Plus MC can come accross as BM but if MC wasnt like that we would not love him anywhere near as much :D
Some are happy with Nani as he is different and a underdog even more so now... and people thrive on that and love a good underdog and badass!!!
Also for people saying he should be punished he never refused to play he played just rushed with workers. He probably would of lost more playing out a game, losing then having all the Korean teams(who with the comments seemed to have it in for Nani already, and this was just the icing on the cake) analyse and go through his games..
I cannot wait for Code S now!!! If Nani wins or loses the celebrations are going to be fantastic and actually will make me watch MORE!!!!!
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nestea just twitted... gogo translate
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On December 14 2011 01:16 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:11 hinnolinn wrote:On December 14 2011 01:06 Itsmedudeman wrote:On December 14 2011 01:04 Knutzi wrote:
if the match is pointless why force them to play? they will play like shit anyway because they have no motivation and it will just be waste of time for everyone since there is nothing on the line.
it was wrong to do what he did but it was also wrong to force them to play if they dont want to Teams out of playoff contention play all the time... HINT HINT IT'S FOR THE FANS Don't the teams also own the stadiums and make money on ticket sales as well as food and beverage vendors? So because the pay scale is smaller(Naniwa still gets paid to play by both quantic and gom for this tourny. and gom makes money off ads and selling the stream) that makes it okay? So until E sports team can own stadiums its okay for players to say fuck it and not play?
Actually, more what I meant was, if the teams don't play, they lose additional revenue. If they continue to lose, fewer fans will buy tickets to the final games of the season that don't matter and they will lose additional revenue. There's more incentive for the teams to continue to try to play well and win.
The line, "IT'S FOR THE FANS" implies benevolent connotations to me at least. I was just pointing out that that's not necessarily true.
Also, in some contracts aren't there additional bonuses for certain performance benchmarks, such as a player getting more money for rushing a certain distance in the season, or the number of sacks and so on? I would imagine that also increases personal desires to play hard all season long for some players.
At the point in the "season" of this bo1 group b play we're talking about, Naniwa did not lose additional revenue by not playing his hardest, did not affect who advanced from group play, and, I'm going out on a limb here, didn't have a rider for specific performance.
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On December 14 2011 01:26 Tommylew wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:14 BaekHo wrote:
whats most disappointing is people are cheering for naniwa and say "im so happy that those koreans are so pissed now hahahaha so funny" and we call this esports? I am very disappointed by naniwa's fans. actually majority cant see why the koreans have made such a big fuss. I wouldnt say im happy but im not disapointed eithier, the game was for nothing, nani gained nothing from winning or losing, the person he was playign also gained nothing. People are also commenting that apparently hes a performing monkey and he had to play 100% to win everys ignle time he plays!!! People are also annoyed that Idra plays like this at times but its ok but nto for others... Plus MC can come accross as BM but if MC wasnt like that we would not love him anywhere near as much :D Some are happy with Nani as he is different and a underdog even more so now... and people thrive on that and love a good underdog and badass!!! Also for people saying he should be punished he never refused to play he played just rushed with workers. He probably would of lost more playing out a game, losing then having all the Korean teams(who with the comments seemed to have it in for Nani already, and this was just the icing on the cake) analyse and go through his games.. I cannot wait for Code S now!!! If Nani wins or loses the celebrations are going to be fantastic and actually will make me watch MORE!!!!!
It's a huge difference between MC's BM and what Naniwa did. Koreans are upset because the word Pro gamer means more then just someone being paid. "That's what Koreans mean when they say he doesn't deserve 2be called progamer, lack of core values attributed to a pro in Kor. understanding" Quoted from a retweet by Milkis. This mixed with MC's tweets perfectly describe how I feel about this situation.
and I'll say it again, to me Naniwa acted like the annoying brat throwing a tantrum in the toy aisle because he didn't get his toy. Its pathetic.
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It seems that Koreans are even more dramaqueens than Teamliquid. But only for games. :wink: werra.
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I'm sorry Naniwa, as much as I love you as a player, this was a really tasteless act, meaningless or not.
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Im so dissapointed in IMMVP, how can he say something like that?
i used to have respect for him, but to totally disregard naniwas feelings and insulting him in such a idiotic fashion have really made me change my mind about him.
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Man, people still don't understand Koreans, but I guess it can't be helped considering how filled the international scene is with star players who can utterly never take losses and actually have fans for being whiny/bad losers. This is sort of on another level and koreans have never seen it before. Basically every player in korea is expected to have a whitera mentalitiy.
Naniwa is not being treated unfairly. If this were a korean they'd be in just as much deep shit, if not more so.
Naniwa got away with saying MLG was a joke tournament on the main stage, but me just imagining someone doing that in the GSL.... Yeah, they'd be kicked off their team and banned from pro gaming.
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On December 14 2011 01:28 hinnolinn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:16 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On December 14 2011 01:11 hinnolinn wrote:On December 14 2011 01:06 Itsmedudeman wrote:On December 14 2011 01:04 Knutzi wrote:
if the match is pointless why force them to play? they will play like shit anyway because they have no motivation and it will just be waste of time for everyone since there is nothing on the line.
it was wrong to do what he did but it was also wrong to force them to play if they dont want to Teams out of playoff contention play all the time... HINT HINT IT'S FOR THE FANS Don't the teams also own the stadiums and make money on ticket sales as well as food and beverage vendors? So because the pay scale is smaller(Naniwa still gets paid to play by both quantic and gom for this tourny. and gom makes money off ads and selling the stream) that makes it okay? So until E sports team can own stadiums its okay for players to say fuck it and not play? Actually, more what I meant was, if the teams don't play, they lose additional revenue. If they continue to lose, fewer fans will buy tickets to the final games of the season that don't matter and they will lose additional revenue. There's more incentive for the teams to continue to try to play well and win. The line, "IT'S FOR THE FANS" implies benevolent connotations to me at least. I was just pointing out that that's not necessarily true. Also, in some contracts aren't there additional bonuses for certain performance benchmarks, such as a player getting more money for rushing a certain distance in the season, or the number of sacks and so on? I would imagine that also increases personal desires to play hard all season long for some players. At the point in the "season" of this bo1 group b play we're talking about, Naniwa did not lose additional revenue by not playing his hardest, did not affect who advanced from group play, and, I'm going out on a limb here, didn't have a rider for specific performance.
obviously he doesn't have a rider for specific performance. But really if you want to be called a Pro, you should be held accountable to some standards, and I don't even mean have to be perfectly mannered or off the field/offline attitude etc. I mean the basic standard of actually playing the game you are supposed to be a professional at! If not for the fans or to help increase revenues for the people paying you(In this case quantic and GOM) do it for your own pride and dignity, live up to the name professional and don't be a baby.
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On December 14 2011 00:41 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:27 DeekZ wrote:On December 14 2011 00:19 DNA.MPK wrote:
LOL Naniwa. A lot of players would have killed to be in that tournament, and he probe rushes? He was already eliminated from the tournament and so was Nestea + Show Spoiler +the game meant nothing herp derp Yes the game meant exactly nothing... not like some people paid to watch them play or anything right? OH WAIT people paid and stayed up late to watch these games and he basically shit on them..... completely unprofessional and entirely disrespectful to not only the fans but to Nestea as well. Naniwa needs to grow a pair, suck it up, play and stop being such a little baby.
I've paid for every GSL season and I wasn't even angry by the least on his move.
Why are you speaking for me?
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On December 14 2011 01:38 PallasAthena wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:41 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On December 14 2011 00:27 DeekZ wrote:On December 14 2011 00:19 DNA.MPK wrote:
LOL Naniwa. A lot of players would have killed to be in that tournament, and he probe rushes? He was already eliminated from the tournament and so was Nestea + Show Spoiler +the game meant nothing herp derp Yes the game meant exactly nothing... not like some people paid to watch them play or anything right? OH WAIT people paid and stayed up late to watch these games and he basically shit on them..... completely unprofessional and entirely disrespectful to not only the fans but to Nestea as well. Naniwa needs to grow a pair, suck it up, play and stop being such a little baby. I've paid for every GSL season and I wasn't even angry by the least on his move. Why are you speaking for me?
I actually said nothing on your behalf... I said he shit on you, whether you liked it, hated it or are indifferent to it is up to you. Personally I wasn't a fan of it.
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Naniwa was pathetic...
I whole heartedly agree with the tweets.
The importance here is regarding 'PRO' gamer, and also, he is privileged to play in the tourney... and has angered many players who could have got the chance otherwise
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On December 14 2011 01:33 Soma.bokforlag wrote:
Im so dissapointed in IMMVP, how can he say something like that?
i used to have respect for him, but to totally disregard naniwas feelings and insulting him in such a idiotic fashion have really made me change my mind about him.
MVP just said
sc2immvp Jung JongHyun
WTF -_-
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On December 14 2011 01:40 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:38 PallasAthena wrote:On December 14 2011 00:41 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On December 14 2011 00:27 DeekZ wrote:On December 14 2011 00:19 DNA.MPK wrote:
LOL Naniwa. A lot of players would have killed to be in that tournament, and he probe rushes? He was already eliminated from the tournament and so was Nestea + Show Spoiler +the game meant nothing herp derp Yes the game meant exactly nothing... not like some people paid to watch them play or anything right? OH WAIT people paid and stayed up late to watch these games and he basically shit on them..... completely unprofessional and entirely disrespectful to not only the fans but to Nestea as well. Naniwa needs to grow a pair, suck it up, play and stop being such a little baby. I've paid for every GSL season and I wasn't even angry by the least on his move. Why are you speaking for me? I actually said nothing on your behalf... I said he shit on you, whether you liked it, hated it or are indifferent to it is up to you. Personally I wasn't a fan of it.
Ah I see. I got more "value" out of my money from his probe rush than MMA's thor rush. To each his own I suppose.
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http://www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130
Best response translation
진짜 저런 병.신같은 새.끼가 프로인게 어이가없다 앞으로 영원히 GSL 관련리그 시드박탈해야된다 초청도 하면 안되고
I can't believe a stupid mutha**** is a pro gamer. He should be banned of any seed related to GSL hence forth, and no invitation either
진짜 멘탈 병.신이네 ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ 지 탈락했다고 저딴 지.랄을 하냐 어휴 ㅉㅉ 김동준이었다면 졸라 깠을텐데 아깝다
His mentality is complete trash hahahaha he puts up that shit because he is out of the tourney? If Kim Dong Jun was there, he would have been flamed to the max
한국 좋아한대서 응원했는데 그놈의 성격이 문제라서 한방에 훅가네ㅋ 프랑스에서는 어땠을지 몰라도 한국에서는 저러면 거의 매장이지
I cheered for him because he said he liked Korea, but his shitty personality just ended it in one shot. I don't know what it's like in France, but if you do this in Korea, you will be buried.
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is choya seriously negatively commenting about someone's starcraft performance?
choya 4gate, dt rush , or voidgate allins everygame; how can he call someone else's play wrothless?
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On December 14 2011 01:44 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:http://www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130Best response translation 진짜 저런 병.신같은 새.끼가 프로인게 어이가없다 앞으로 영원히 GSL 관련리그 시드박탈해야된다 초청도 하면 안되고 I can't believe a stupid mutha**** is a pro gamer. He should be banned of any seed related to GSL hence forth, and no invitation either 진짜 멘탈 병.신이네 ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ 지 탈락했다고 저딴 지.랄을 하냐 어휴 ㅉㅉ 김동준이었다면 졸라 깠을텐데 아깝다 His mentality is complete trash hahahaha he puts up that shit because he is out of the tourney? If Kim Dong Jun was there, he would have been flamed to the max 한국 좋아한대서 응원했는데 그놈의 성격이 문제라서 한방에 훅가네ㅋ 프랑스에서는 어땠을지 몰라도 한국에서는 저러면 거의 매장이지 I cheered for him because he said he liked Korea, but his shitty personality just ended it in one shot. I don't know what it's like in France, but if you do this in Korea, you will be buried.
lol, the last guy may have Naniwa's nationality mixed up a bit.
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On December 14 2011 01:40 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:38 PallasAthena wrote:On December 14 2011 00:41 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On December 14 2011 00:27 DeekZ wrote:On December 14 2011 00:19 DNA.MPK wrote:
LOL Naniwa. A lot of players would have killed to be in that tournament, and he probe rushes? He was already eliminated from the tournament and so was Nestea + Show Spoiler +the game meant nothing herp derp Yes the game meant exactly nothing... not like some people paid to watch them play or anything right? OH WAIT people paid and stayed up late to watch these games and he basically shit on them..... completely unprofessional and entirely disrespectful to not only the fans but to Nestea as well. Naniwa needs to grow a pair, suck it up, play and stop being such a little baby. I've paid for every GSL season and I wasn't even angry by the least on his move. Why are you speaking for me? I actually said nothing on your behalf... I said he shit on you, whether you liked it, hated it or are indifferent to it is up to you. Personally I wasn't a fan of it.
I love it how people shit themselves then blame the stains on others
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On December 14 2011 01:45 JinDesu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:44 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:http://www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130Best response translation 진짜 저런 병.신같은 새.끼가 프로인게 어이가없다 앞으로 영원히 GSL 관련리그 시드박탈해야된다 초청도 하면 안되고 I can't believe a stupid mutha**** is a pro gamer. He should be banned of any seed related to GSL hence forth, and no invitation either 진짜 멘탈 병.신이네 ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ 지 탈락했다고 저딴 지.랄을 하냐 어휴 ㅉㅉ 김동준이었다면 졸라 깠을텐데 아깝다 His mentality is complete trash hahahaha he puts up that shit because he is out of the tourney? If Kim Dong Jun was there, he would have been flamed to the max 한국 좋아한대서 응원했는데 그놈의 성격이 문제라서 한방에 훅가네ㅋ 프랑스에서는 어땠을지 몰라도 한국에서는 저러면 거의 매장이지 I cheered for him because he said he liked Korea, but his shitty personality just ended it in one shot. I don't know what it's like in France, but if you do this in Korea, you will be buried. lol, the last guy may have Naniwa's nationality mixed up a bit.
You are right, someone noted out for him and he replied again saying he got confused with Stephano
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What is it about this game that causes its best players to throw matches? For money and for free?
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On December 14 2011 01:47 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:45 JinDesu wrote:On December 14 2011 01:44 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:http://www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130Best response translation 진짜 저런 병.신같은 새.끼가 프로인게 어이가없다 앞으로 영원히 GSL 관련리그 시드박탈해야된다 초청도 하면 안되고 I can't believe a stupid mutha**** is a pro gamer. He should be banned of any seed related to GSL hence forth, and no invitation either 진짜 멘탈 병.신이네 ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ 지 탈락했다고 저딴 지.랄을 하냐 어휴 ㅉㅉ 김동준이었다면 졸라 깠을텐데 아깝다 His mentality is complete trash hahahaha he puts up that shit because he is out of the tourney? If Kim Dong Jun was there, he would have been flamed to the max 한국 좋아한대서 응원했는데 그놈의 성격이 문제라서 한방에 훅가네ㅋ 프랑스에서는 어땠을지 몰라도 한국에서는 저러면 거의 매장이지 I cheered for him because he said he liked Korea, but his shitty personality just ended it in one shot. I don't know what it's like in France, but if you do this in Korea, you will be buried. lol, the last guy may have Naniwa's nationality mixed up a bit. You are right, someone noted out for him and he replied again saying he got confused with Stephano
Well, it's good to know there's people who are reasonable on that board!
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On December 14 2011 01:45 Kfcnoob wrote:
is choya seriously negatively commenting about someone's starcraft performance?
choya 4gate, dt rush , or voidgate allins everygame; how can he call someone else's play wrothless?
Yea he is, he may cheese but he at least plays out the games to win.
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On December 14 2011 01:51 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:45 Kfcnoob wrote:
is choya seriously negatively commenting about someone's starcraft performance?
choya 4gate, dt rush , or voidgate allins everygame; how can he call someone else's play wrothless? Yea he is, he may cheese but he at least plays out the games to win.
One could even say he wants to win just a little too much.
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On December 14 2011 01:49 MichaelJLowell wrote:
What is it about this game that causes its best players to throw matches? For money and for free?
because of the tournament setup.Even if they played it properly it would of been a shit game.. Nani wouldnt of tried and for all we know Nestea may of had some cheese himself lined up.
All the Koreans whining about wishing theyw ere there... wot 0-3 down? and theyd actually give a shit uin the last game.... would be different if Nestea had to play for a place.But both were out.
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Lol I would say he's a sore loser but i need a phrase 100x stronger than that to really describe him
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I bought a ticket for 10$ just to see this. To the people criticizing Naniwa, all I can say is it was a good business decision. Read into it further if you'd like.
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He may not be out of bonds to have done this, but it just shows how disrespectful and immature Naniwa is as a player and a person.
People commending him on this shit should take a step back and observe their own idiocy.
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On December 14 2011 01:55 Tommylew wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:49 MichaelJLowell wrote:
What is it about this game that causes its best players to throw matches? For money and for free? because of the tournament setup.Even if they played it properly it would of been a shit game.. Nani wouldnt of tried and for all we know Nestea may of had some cheese himself lined up. All the Koreans whining about wishing theyw ere there... wot 0-3 down? and theyd actually give a shit uin the last game.... would be different if Nestea had to play for a place.But both were out.
They would. Just because players like naniwa don't care you think others wouldn't care to show a good game? LOL
Almost every korean player is like whitera when it comes to playing on stage. They want to try to win no matter what for their fans. Foreigners are too used to people with bad personalities it seems and find BM to be okay.
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I feel so bad for LiquidHero after reading MC's twitter.
It's okay Hero, at least you played to the end, showing us your fighting spirit!
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*facepalm* ohh naniwa... had such high hopes.
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Koreans have a strong sense of professionalism in their culture. That's why this is gaining a ridiculous amount of traction. Many non-Koreans point to the fact that they bought tickets to view the Blizzard Cup, conveying a sense of being cheated their money's worth.
As far as I'm concerned, players are here to compete. They're not contracted as performers or entertainers (despite what ceremonies they perform or personalities they project). Objectively, if people want to be angry at an entity for not getting their money's worth, they should be angry at GomTV. Gom, in turn, will most likely sanction NaNiwa to ensure their future productions are up to their standards.
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On December 14 2011 00:14 mr_tolkien wrote:In 2004, Russia was 0-3 in its groupe at the Euro UEFA Championship. They had to play Greece, the HOST of the cup, and beating them could have made them not pass the group, as they were 1/1/0 atm, like Spain. They did fight to their best, and won the game 2-1. It was their only win of the whole champ. Greece still made it through because Spain lost 0-1 to Portugal, and had scored less goals. Greece went on to win the championship undefeated. Except by Russia, in pool plays, who did their best to offer a good showing and show their ability. I'm sorry, but no, when you're passionated about your sport, you do your best. Whatever happens.
See Euro 2004 (YES THE SAME ONE), Italy's group, Italy passes if they beat (I don't remember which team) and if Denmark or Sweden loses or scores less then 2 goals against each other they pass. Now everyone know's scandinavian countries would not kill each other to make Italy pass. So guess what happened. Italy won their game 2-1, Sweden and Denmark finished 2-2 in a match where NO ONE TRIED TO SCORE except those 2 goals each to make sure THEY passed and Italy wouldnt. See what I did there? I just showed you have this shit happens and isn't punished, and I could make you another example just to prove you even more wrong. Formula 1, 2002, Michael Schumacher lets Barrichello pass him 100 meters away from the finish line so that their team would win both the pilot and builder championships! Nothing happened there either. Other football example, look at Worldcup 2002, South Korea (yes those very same SC2 wannabe saints) openly gained favors from a referee who was later imprisoned for selling cocaine, and by another one who was banned by FIFA, watch the games South Korea vs Italy and South Korea vs Spain. Don't come speaking to me about sports dude, I can give you another 10000 examples on arranged results in sportsworld.
To finish this off, as long you don't have background betting schemes losing games on purpose is perfectly fine even if there is something on the line as it is IMPOSSIBLE to monitor when some1 loses or not unpurpose UNLESS they openly do it or you have proof (CoCa's case). Shitting on someone for doing something pretty much everyone did in their carreer in most sports OPENLY is retarded if you don't punish every other occassion in which this occurs, as that would be an hipocracy in my opinion.
Sorry for my bad english.
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On December 14 2011 01:51 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:45 Kfcnoob wrote:
is choya seriously negatively commenting about someone's starcraft performance?
choya 4gate, dt rush , or voidgate allins everygame; how can he call someone else's play wrothless? Yea he is, he may cheese but he at least plays out the games to win. Not to mention he is apparently a great coach for FXO. His team has been doing great lately and you can see that he truly cares about them. You can see him run in at the end of every GSL match to offer support to his players.
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On December 14 2011 02:18 Ben... wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:51 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On December 14 2011 01:45 Kfcnoob wrote:
is choya seriously negatively commenting about someone's starcraft performance?
choya 4gate, dt rush , or voidgate allins everygame; how can he call someone else's play wrothless? Yea he is, he may cheese but he at least plays out the games to win. Not to mention he is apparently a great coach for FXO. His team has been doing great lately and you can see that he truly cares about them. You can see him run in at the end of every GSL match to offer support to his players.
People shitting on choya are stupid. Choya is one of the koreans who tries the hardest to help out foreigners. When FXO was in korea he was there helping them.
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On December 14 2011 02:12 mmgironi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:14 mr_tolkien wrote:On December 13 2011 23:56 mmgironi wrote:
see football worldcups In 2004, Russia was 0-3 in its groupe at the Euro UEFA Championship. They had to play Greece, the HOST of the cup, and beating them could have made them not pass the group, as they were 1/1/0 atm, like Spain. They did fight to their best, and won the game 2-1. It was their only win of the whole champ. Greece still made it through because Spain lost 0-1 to Portugal, and had scored less goals. Greece went on to win the championship undefeated. Except by Russia, in pool plays, who did their best to offer a good showing and show their ability. I'm sorry, but no, when you're passionated about your sport, you do your best. Whatever happens. See Euro 2004 (YES THE SAME ONE), Italy's group, Italy passes if they beat (I don't remember which team) and if Denmark or Sweden loses or scores less then 2 goals against each other they pass. Now everyone know's scandinavian countries would not kill each other to make Italy pass. So guess what happened. Italy won their game 2-1, Sweden and Denmark finished 2-2 in a match where NO ONE TRIED TO SCORE except those 2 goals each to make sure THEY passed and Italy wouldnt. See what I did there? I just showed you have this shit happens and isn't punished, and I could make you another example just to prove you even more wrong. Formula 1, 2002, Michael Schumacher lets Barrichello pass him 100 meters away from the finish line so that their team would win both the pilot and builder championships! Nothing happened there either. Other football example, look at Worldcup 2002, South Korea (yes those very same SC2 wannabe saints) openly gained favors from a referee who was later imprisoned for selling cocaine, and by another one who was banned by FIFA, watch the games South Korea vs Italy and South Korea vs Spain. Don't come speaking to me about sports dude, I can give you another 10000 examples on arranged results in sportsworld. To finish this off, as long you don't have background betting schemes losing games on purpose is perfectly fine even if there is something on the line as it is IMPOSSIBLE to monitor when some1 loses or not unpurpose UNLESS they openly do it or you have proof (CoCa's case). Shitting on someone for doing something pretty much everyone did in their carreer in most sports OPENLY is retarded if you don't punish every other occassion in which this occurs, as that would be an hipocracy in my opinion. Sorry for my bad english.
That these incidents happened earlier doesn't mean they are justified.
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On December 14 2011 02:12 mmgironi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:14 mr_tolkien wrote:On December 13 2011 23:56 mmgironi wrote:
see football worldcups In 2004, Russia was 0-3 in its groupe at the Euro UEFA Championship. They had to play Greece, the HOST of the cup, and beating them could have made them not pass the group, as they were 1/1/0 atm, like Spain. They did fight to their best, and won the game 2-1. It was their only win of the whole champ. Greece still made it through because Spain lost 0-1 to Portugal, and had scored less goals. Greece went on to win the championship undefeated. Except by Russia, in pool plays, who did their best to offer a good showing and show their ability. I'm sorry, but no, when you're passionated about your sport, you do your best. Whatever happens. See Euro 2004 (YES THE SAME ONE), Italy's group, Italy passes if they beat (I don't remember which team) and if Denmark or Sweden loses or scores less then 2 goals against each other they pass. Now everyone know's scandinavian countries would not kill each other to make Italy pass. So guess what happened. Italy won their game 2-1, Sweden and Denmark finished 2-2 in a match where NO ONE TRIED TO SCORE except those 2 goals each to make sure THEY passed and Italy wouldnt. See what I did there? I just showed you have this shit happens and isn't punished, and I could make you another example just to prove you even more wrong. Formula 1, 2002, Michael Schumacher lets Barrichello pass him 100 meters away from the finish line so that their team would win both the pilot and builder championships! Nothing happened there either. Other football example, look at Worldcup 2002, South Korea (yes those very same SC2 wannabe saints) openly gained favors from a referee who was later imprisoned for selling cocaine, and by another one who was banned by FIFA, watch the games South Korea vs Italy and South Korea vs Spain. Don't come speaking to me about sports dude, I can give you another 10000 examples on arranged results in sportsworld. To finish this off, as long you don't have background betting schemes losing games on purpose is perfectly fine even if there is something on the line as it is IMPOSSIBLE to monitor when some1 loses or not unpurpose UNLESS they openly do it or you have proof (CoCa's case). Shitting on someone for doing something pretty much everyone did in their carreer in most sports OPENLY is retarded if you don't punish every other occassion in which this occurs, as that would be an hipocracy in my opinion. Sorry for my bad english.
just because it's happened before doesn't make it less wrong. just because naniwa's taking the heat for what he did whereas others haven't doesn't mean he should get a free pass for acting like an immature brat, throwing a temper tantrum on stage, embarassing those who pay his wages, and general unsportsmanlike behavior. it's also not as if this is the first time he's pulled something like this.
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people were looking forward to this game, for him to throw it away just because it doesn't affect him directly...is just selfish of him
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On December 14 2011 02:12 mmgironi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:14 mr_tolkien wrote:On December 13 2011 23:56 mmgironi wrote:
see football worldcups In 2004, Russia was 0-3 in its groupe at the Euro UEFA Championship. They had to play Greece, the HOST of the cup, and beating them could have made them not pass the group, as they were 1/1/0 atm, like Spain. They did fight to their best, and won the game 2-1. It was their only win of the whole champ. Greece still made it through because Spain lost 0-1 to Portugal, and had scored less goals. Greece went on to win the championship undefeated. Except by Russia, in pool plays, who did their best to offer a good showing and show their ability. I'm sorry, but no, when you're passionated about your sport, you do your best. Whatever happens. See Euro 2004 (YES THE SAME ONE), Italy's group, Italy passes if they beat (I don't remember which team) and if Denmark or Sweden loses or scores less then 2 goals against each other they pass. Now everyone know's scandinavian countries would not kill each other to make Italy pass. So guess what happened. Italy won their game 2-1, Sweden and Denmark finished 2-2 in a match where NO ONE TRIED TO SCORE except those 2 goals each to make sure THEY passed and Italy wouldnt. See what I did there? I just showed you have this shit happens and isn't punished, and I could make you another example just to prove you even more wrong. Formula 1, 2002, Michael Schumacher lets Barrichello pass him 100 meters away from the finish line so that their team would win both the pilot and builder championships! Nothing happened there either. Other football example, look at Worldcup 2002, South Korea (yes those very same SC2 wannabe saints) openly gained favors from a referee who was later imprisoned for selling cocaine, and by another one who was banned by FIFA, watch the games South Korea vs Italy and South Korea vs Spain. Don't come speaking to me about sports dude, I can give you another 10000 examples on arranged results in sportsworld. To finish this off, as long you don't have background betting schemes losing games on purpose is perfectly fine even if there is something on the line as it is IMPOSSIBLE to monitor when some1 loses or not unpurpose UNLESS they openly do it or you have proof (CoCa's case). Shitting on someone for doing something pretty much everyone did in their carreer in most sports OPENLY is retarded if you don't punish every other occassion in which this occurs, as that would be an hipocracy in my opinion. Sorry for my bad english.
Dude, really? Scandinavian teams LOVE beating each other, and especially the rivalry between Sweden and Denmark is big... Besides, they played for seedings into the playoffs, so something WAS on the line...
If Italy actually tried to not do the same W D D game setup every single group stage of every single tournament ever, they wouldn't need the result of other matches to go their way, and would go throug on their own...
But, as you might or might not know, NOONE likes to watch Italy play football, as you're by far the most cynical footballing nation out there; you cheat, dive, whine, complain, argue, provoke, and rob games of their fun atmosphere. Good riddance, sir.
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i dont get why everyone cares so much. he threw a game, that's all. it's his loss. his fans? why is it his job to be a demagogue?
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You don't get it, if you CANT prove that the fixed a match 100% you cannot punish them yet this shit happens nonetheless. Naniwa did what every one does secretly by doing an openly shitty tactic, take OGS INca vs nestea finals, he did a dark templar expand every fucking game and lost 4-0. He ruined the finals for all the fans as he obviously threw the last game , you don't do the same tactic 4 times in a fucking row vs a player of Nestea's caliber and expect to win. He knew he was gonna lose and did a retarded tactic just like Naniwa did. Only difference is that Naniwa didn't wast 15min of my time and just did a 2min long tactic. Psycologically if you get SHIT ON 3 games in a row you will not perform well on your 4th game, Naniwa was obviously trouble by previous losses and just bloody got the game over with and left. Simply put, in sports this shit happens cause if you don't have a reason or chance to win you wont even bloody try. AKA if the opposing team is beating you 3-0 in football chances are the game will finish 6-0 or 6-1, see MAnchester City vs Manchester United this year, psycologically you will end up playing shit. Naniwa did just that, Koreans and alot of foreigner are just drama queens and think they live in a fairytale
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for once i wish i could read Korean..T.T
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The tweets from MKP and GuineaPig brilliantly expose Naniwa for what he really is: A selfish prick.
I don't think he should be punished officially in any way since what he did isn't disallowed, I believe, in any way by the tournament.
His sense of proffesionalism is just laughable, though.
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On December 14 2011 02:25 mmgironi wrote:
You don't get it, if you CANT prove that the fixed a match 100% you cannot punish them yet this shit happens nonetheless. Naniwa did what every one does secretly by doing an openly shitty tactic, take OGS INca vs nestea finals, he did a dark templar expand every fucking game and lost 4-0. He ruined the finals for all the fans as he obviously threw the last game , you don't do the same tactic 4 times in a fucking row vs a player of Nestea's caliber and expect to win. He knew he was gonna lose and did a retarded tactic just like Naniwa did. Only difference is that Naniwa didn't wast 15min of my time and just did a 2min long tactic. Psycologically if you get SHIT ON 3 games in a row you will not perform well on your 4th game, Naniwa was obviously trouble by previous losses and just bloody got the game over with and left. Simply put, in sports this shit happens cause if you don't have a reason or chance to win you wont even bloody try. AKA if the opposing team is beating you 3-0 in football chances are the game will finish 6-0 or 6-1, see MAnchester City vs Manchester United this year, psycologically you will end up playing shit. Naniwa did just that, Koreans and alot of foreigner are just drama queens and think they live in a fairytale
There a complete difference in going 4-0 with a planned build that failed and probe rushing... I don't think I need to explain this any further to you. (Not arguing whether people are over reacting or not, just saying your using a bad example)
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On December 14 2011 02:25 mmgironi wrote:
You don't get it, if you CANT prove that the fixed a match 100% you cannot punish them yet this shit happens nonetheless. Naniwa did what every one does secretly by doing an openly shitty tactic, take OGS INca vs nestea finals, he did a dark templar expand every fucking game and lost 4-0. He ruined the finals for all the fans as he obviously threw the last game , you don't do the same tactic 4 times in a fucking row vs a player of Nestea's caliber and expect to win. He knew he was gonna lose and did a retarded tactic just like Naniwa did. Only difference is that Naniwa didn't wast 15min of my time and just did a 2min long tactic. Psycologically if you get SHIT ON 3 games in a row you will not perform well on your 4th game, Naniwa was obviously trouble by previous losses and just bloody got the game over with and left. Simply put, in sports this shit happens cause if you don't have a reason or chance to win you wont even bloody try. AKA if the opposing team is beating you 3-0 in football chances are the game will finish 6-0 or 6-1, see MAnchester City vs Manchester United this year, psycologically you will end up playing shit. Naniwa did just that, Koreans and alot of foreigner are just drama queens and think they live in a fairytale
or you know... it can just be another showmatch. but of course, no money was on the line. that's what it's all about right.
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UBvarice what do you think of EG.IdrA if you call naniwa a selfish prick? ^^
"At IPL 3 IdrA forfeited two matches in his group. Of COURSE we wanted to show those games but the player did not want to play them."
What is worse? anyway who cares. why does this get so much attention....
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On December 14 2011 02:27 UBavarice wrote:
The tweets from MKP and GuineaPig brilliantly exposes Naniwa for what he really is: A selfish prick.
I don't think he should be punished officially in any way since what he did isn't disallowed, I believe, in any way by the tournament.
His sense of proffesionalism is just laughable, though.
I feel like it's a combination of Naniwa's lack of social skills (as in I do whatever the fuck I feel like) and his lack of understanding of the Korean Culture and the GSL.... it's just wrong imo to do that to the Casters, the Producers, the Viewers... but, still I'm sure Naniwa isn't as bad as he looks, it's just he's really really really really bad at anything that involves human interaction including playing games lol
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On December 14 2011 02:29 Winterfrozz wrote:
UBvarice what do you think of EG.IdrA if you call naniwa a selfish prick? ^^
"At IPL 3 IdrA forfeited two matches in his group. Of COURSE we wanted to show those games but the player did not want to play them."
What is worse? anyway who cares. why does this get so much attention....
In this case he had been invited to an event in Korea which he arguably wouldn't have qualified for if there were open qualifiers in which other top Koreans participated. So, in my eyes, he had some extra responsibilites in playing the games out in the best way possible. That's where this differs from the case with IdrA.
I don't try to justify IdrA throwing games either though.
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On December 14 2011 02:30 Flowjo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:27 UBavarice wrote:
The tweets from MKP and GuineaPig brilliantly exposes Naniwa for what he really is: A selfish prick.
I don't think he should be punished officially in any way since what he did isn't disallowed, I believe, in any way by the tournament.
His sense of proffesionalism is just laughable, though. I feel like it's a combination of Naniwa's lack of social skills (as in I do whatever the fuck I feel like) and his lack of understanding of the Korean Culture and the GSL.... it's just wrong imo to do that to the Casters, the Producers, the Viewers... but, still I'm sure Naniwa isn't as bad as he looks, it's just he's really really really really bad at anything that involves human interaction including playing games lol
Yes, I agree.
Maybe the best course of action in this case would have been for the tournament not to pursue meaningless games to be played.
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On December 14 2011 02:37 UBavarice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:30 Flowjo wrote:On December 14 2011 02:27 UBavarice wrote:
The tweets from MKP and GuineaPig brilliantly exposes Naniwa for what he really is: A selfish prick.
I don't think he should be punished officially in any way since what he did isn't disallowed, I believe, in any way by the tournament.
His sense of proffesionalism is just laughable, though. I feel like it's a combination of Naniwa's lack of social skills (as in I do whatever the fuck I feel like) and his lack of understanding of the Korean Culture and the GSL.... it's just wrong imo to do that to the Casters, the Producers, the Viewers... but, still I'm sure Naniwa isn't as bad as he looks, it's just he's really really really really bad at anything that involves human interaction including playing games lol Yes, I agree. Maybe the best course of action in this case would have been for the tournament not to pursue meaningless games to be played.
Well, though a system of meaningless games can be bad, you also have to remember he signed up to play all the games... and while technically he did... it's not what we wanted... what anyone wanted really.
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On December 13 2011 21:34 valaki wrote:
I'm glad koreans don't find it funny. Because it isn't.
@TSLJYP: LOLOLOLOLOL x 140 characters
@MVPKeeN: LOLOLOLOLOLOL x Slightly fewer characters
@FXOChoya: [Can't believe] that kind of bastard is a pro-gamer.
LOLOLOL I can I do is laugh
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I was surprised by choya's comment after what he did.. >_>
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Sweden647 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:34 UBavarice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:29 Winterfrozz wrote:
UBvarice what do you think of EG.IdrA if you call naniwa a selfish prick? ^^
"At IPL 3 IdrA forfeited two matches in his group. Of COURSE we wanted to show those games but the player did not want to play them."
What is worse? anyway who cares. why does this get so much attention.... In this case he had been invited to an event in Korea which he arguably wouldn't have qualified for if there were open qualifiers in which other top Koreans participated. So, in my eyes, he had some extra responsibilites in playing the games out in the best way possible. That's where this differs from the case with IdrA. I don't try to justify IdrA throwing games either though.
You are sooo wrong. NaNiwa QUALIFIED when he got 2nd place at Providence. If the other koreans wold have beaten him in Providence they would've gotten his place. Each player in the Blizzard Cup qualified by winning (MLG Providence had 2 spots) one of the biggest events of 2011 or being top 3 in the GSL ranking. This was not an invitational event.
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Oh how unforgiving people can be. Really hope people will wake up after a few days and realize how much they overreacted.
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On December 14 2011 02:29 Winterfrozz wrote:
UBvarice what do you think of EG.IdrA if you call naniwa a selfish prick? ^^
"At IPL 3 IdrA forfeited two matches in his group. Of COURSE we wanted to show those games but the player did not want to play them."
What is worse? anyway who cares. why does this get so much attention....
Might've been mentioned already but he forfeited 7th/8th place providence matches to Haypro aswell, there's been several other instances in smaller tournaments but nobody gave a shit. These were also games that had some money on the line too so I don't see why this is such a big deal, blame the terrible tourney format if anything.
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On December 14 2011 02:59 miwi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:34 UBavarice wrote:On December 14 2011 02:29 Winterfrozz wrote:
UBvarice what do you think of EG.IdrA if you call naniwa a selfish prick? ^^
"At IPL 3 IdrA forfeited two matches in his group. Of COURSE we wanted to show those games but the player did not want to play them."
What is worse? anyway who cares. why does this get so much attention.... In this case he had been invited to an event in Korea which he arguably wouldn't have qualified for if there were open qualifiers in which other top Koreans participated. So, in my eyes, he had some extra responsibilites in playing the games out in the best way possible. That's where this differs from the case with IdrA. I don't try to justify IdrA throwing games either though. You are sooo wrong. NaNiwa QUALIFIED when he got 2nd place at Providence. If the other koreans wold have beaten him in Providence they would've gotten his place. Each player in the Blizzard Cup qualified by winning (MLG Providence had 2 spots) one of the biggest events of 2011 or being top 3 in the GSL ranking. This was not an invitational event.
Ah, my bad then. Thanks for correcting me on that account.
I still think he acted like a douche though, doing what he did against one of the very best Koreans in a live televised game just shows how little a sense of professionalism he's got.
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Pretty sure MLG rank games aren't televised. Tbh I don't care about them and wouldn't ever seek them out. But Nestea vs Naniwa? That sounds like some hot shit. GOM sure picked quite the foreigners to represent the rest of the world. Ilyes "I don't trust the koreans" Satouri and Johan "probe rush" Lucchesi.
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On December 14 2011 01:33 Soma.bokforlag wrote:
Im so dissapointed in IMMVP, how can he say something like that?
i used to have respect for him, but to totally disregard naniwas feelings and insulting him in such a idiotic fashion have really made me change my mind about him.
You have reading comprehension problems. Go back and reread what MVP twittered, or you mistook him for another person.
I'm confused towards all of you who are complaining about "all" of the Koreans overreacting. Can we not fucking generalize and conflate the shit out of these comments, like some of you are doing? All I'm reading is one poignant and ironic comment from the MVP team about Naniwa's unprofessionalism (uncalled for), and a few mild comments from MC, MKP, and Guineapig about their disappointment with such behavior (which I generally agree with).
Basically, everyone else is going "LOL LOL LOL" or "WTF," which was essentially the same reaction from the foreigners like Huk. As for the Korean netizens - who gives a shit? There are just as many foreigners calling for Naniwa's head on TL and Reddit.
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You guys have to realize different cultures view things differently, thats why the world is so beautiful. You have to accept that different areas take things more literal or seriously than the rest of the world, in this case, as we all know Korea is a very prideful country and you just dont do acts like this even if it is for nothing. What Naniwa did was VERY disappointing in an asian context of pride and never giving up thats why everyone is making a big deal
contrast this to the western culture where we forgive mistakes and understand situation that are rough and shit like that
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On December 14 2011 02:50 mapthesoul wrote:
I was surprised by choya's comment after what he did.. >_>
I am completely with you on that one. I do not really mind other Koreans being judgemental, as SC2 does mean a lot to them and it is their opinion, but Choya is just being obscene and very hypocritcal.
For context: Choya basically paused some games in a GSL online tournament and had the opponent play him in rock-paper-scissors. Because of this, he was banned from the first GSTL.
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Reactions are exagerated for sure. Out of all koreans, MC made the most appropriate comment, really pointing out the misbehaviour of Naniwa and there is nothing to add. He should've played the games and maybe once again beat Nestea. People called it luck when he beat Nestea at Providence and GI. Beating him 3 in a row would've silent the haters alil more.
He didn't. Hell yeah, worse but not so world-ending TL believes.
There are simple reasons for the hate:
1. It's TL. Tl-Forums loves hating
2. He's not idra. TL gave idra the permition to do as he pleases
3. He's protoss. TL hates protoss, because protoss is not zerg
4. He's not zerg
5. It's Nestea who he should've played
6. Nestea is a zerg
7. TL want to see a zerg beat protoss, especially if it's Nestea beating Naniwa
8. TL feels to have the support of krean pros. They're humans aswell but their opinion seems like a doctrine
This is no flame, i'm just being cynical.
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On December 14 2011 03:21 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:50 mapthesoul wrote:
I was surprised by choya's comment after what he did.. >_> I am completely with you on that one. I do not really mind other Koreans being judgemental, as SC2 does mean a lot to them and it is their opinion, but Choya is just being obscene and very hypocritcal. For context: Choya basically paused some games in a GSL online tournament and had the opponent play him in rock-paper-scissors. Because of this, he was banned from the first GSTL.
Woah really? Is there an article on this? Didn't know.
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On December 14 2011 03:22 ooozer wrote:
Reactions are exagerated for sure. Out of all koreans, MC made the most appropriate comment, really pointing out the misbehaviour of Naniwa and there is nothing to add. He should've played the games and maybe once again beat Nestea. People called it luck when he beat Nestea at Providence and GI. Beating him 3 in a row would've silent the haters alil more.
He didn't. Hell yeah, worse but not so world-ending TL believes.
There are simple reasons for the hate:
1. It's TL. Tl-Forums loves hating
2. He's not idra. TL gave idra the permition to do as he pleases
3. He's protoss. TL hates protoss, because protoss is not zerg
4. He's not zerg
5. It's Nestea who he should've played
6. Nestea is a zerg
7. TL want to see a zerg beat protoss, especially if it's Nestea beating Naniwa
8. TL feels to have the support of krean pros. They're humans aswell but their opinion seems like a doctrine
This is no flame, i'm just being cynical.
Is that better? -_-
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Thanks for the translation.
Nani doesn't help himself.
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I'm jsut saying people should get their shit together and stop their senseless hating when we all know it's because it's the act of hating they love and not the actual behaviour they hate. He did something wrong, yes, but it doesn't deserve this shitstorm. Look there, already 3+ threads about this incident and the usual dudes writing articles about it to get their PR right, because nobodys reading their articles if there's not controversial and full of hate towards somebody in it
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OO good convo..
It is true that Naniwa does not play to entertain, he is a competitor and plays to win.
That being said it is extremely unfair and downright wrong to say that he was not entertaining. While it may not be your ideal entertainment you need not look any further to see how much controversy/entertainment (as some would call it) it is.
IMO, There are different types of players and each are entertaining in their own right depending on YOUR personality.
The nice guys/in it for the fans: Sheth, White-ra, MC, etc..
The controversial/in it to win it: Idra, Naniwa, etc..
The a$$holes/win no matter what: Combatex, Deezer, etc..
The characters/trolls: Destiny, etc..
+ many others that i am forgetting/too lazy to come up with a description
PS. GOMs reaction, imo, is TERRIBLE, I am extremely disappointed with them and will no longer be supporting.
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On December 14 2011 03:22 ooozer wrote:
Reactions are exagerated for sure. Out of all koreans, MC made the most appropriate comment, really pointing out the misbehaviour of Naniwa and there is nothing to add. He should've played the games and maybe once again beat Nestea. People called it luck when he beat Nestea at Providence and GI. Beating him 3 in a row would've silent the haters alil more.
He didn't. Hell yeah, worse but not so world-ending TL believes.
There are simple reasons for the hate:
1. It's TL. Tl-Forums loves hating
2. He's not idra. TL gave idra the permition to do as he pleases
3. He's protoss. TL hates protoss, because protoss is not zerg
4. He's not zerg
5. It's Nestea who he should've played
6. Nestea is a zerg
7. TL want to see a zerg beat protoss, especially if it's Nestea beating Naniwa
8. TL feels to have the support of krean pros. They're humans aswell but their opinion seems like a doctrine
This is no flame, i'm just being cynical.
This is a gross generalization and wrong in almost all points.
Imo koreans are over reacting, although i can pretty much agree with everything MC said. On the other side, from all what ive heard pros are humans too..
And tbh i like rivalry, and some bad manner from time to time.
I think that naniwa in person really doesnt fit with the common korean restraint, and because of that they really didnt want him to stay, respective have success. Especially not against them
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I don't even like Naniwa but this episode has really made me lose a lot of respect for the Korean Pro community.
Didn't NesTea mock HuK for taking showmatches too seriously?
Where did that attitude go, somewhere behind the rest of the crowd of two-faced Korean salesmen talking about "honor" when all they really mean is "keeping up appearances"?
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On December 14 2011 03:38 Prplppleatr wrote:
OO good convo..
It is true that Naniwa does not play to entertain, he is a competitor and plays to win.
That being said it is extremely unfair and downright wrong to say that he was not entertaining. While it may not be your ideal entertainment you need not look any further to see how much controversy/entertainment (as some would call it) it is.
IMO, There are different types of players and each are entertaining in their own right depending on YOUR personality.
The nice guys/in it for the fans: Sheth, White-ra, MC, etc..
The controversial/in it to win it: Idra, Naniwa, etc..
The a$$holes/win no matter what: Combatex, Deezer, etc..
The characters/trolls: Destiny, etc..
+ many others that i am forgetting/too lazy to come up with a description
PS. GOMs reaction, imo, is TERRIBLE, I am extremely disappointed with them and will no longer be supporting.
What did they decide? I wasn't aware there was anything to decide about.
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Can't wait to see NaNiwa in CODE S next season !!
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On December 13 2011 23:55 See.Blue wrote:
I love how its only <500 post count-ers who are the ones who connect with Nani's behavior and as such are trying desperately to deflect from/justify it lol
Hardly.
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On December 14 2011 03:42 Thurokiir wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:55 See.Blue wrote:
I love how its only <500 post count-ers who are the ones who connect with Nani's behavior and as such are trying desperately to deflect from/justify it lol Hardly.
Prime example is the guy with one post at the top of this page talking shit. Talk about taking things out of context, hahaha.
Like I posted earlier, I see plenty of "LOL LOL LOL's" from the Koreans as well.
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On December 14 2011 03:21 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:50 mapthesoul wrote:
I was surprised by choya's comment after what he did.. >_> I am completely with you on that one. I do not really mind other Koreans being judgemental, as SC2 does mean a lot to them and it is their opinion, but Choya is just being obscene and very hypocritcal. For context: Choya basically paused some games in a GSL online tournament and had the opponent play him in rock-paper-scissors. Because of this, he was banned from the first GSTL.
It was ladder, not GSL.(source). Stop spreading misinformation just to emphasize your point. And Koreans were so harsh that they actually banned him from GSTL first season for these silly games on the ladder (which dont even matter for GSL tournament since Choya was already Code S at that point. Ladder points only matter if you are looking to apply for Code B). So I'm sure you understand how angry they feel for NaNiwa's behavior in a Televised game.
Edit: And MC's tweet is the best of the lot. He clearly summarizes the situation and presents his point of view beautifully.
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wow so much butthurt over nothing. the game didn't matter, he was wasting time being there and would be better off practicing.
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On December 14 2011 03:50 Ledcaveman wrote:
wow so much butthurt over nothing. the game didn't matter, he was wasting time being there and would be better off practicing.
So playing against one of the best zergs in the world is not good practice? Ok.
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Anyway, any tweet from TSL players/coach?
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On December 14 2011 03:50 Ledcaveman wrote:
wow so much butthurt over nothing. the game didn't matter, he was wasting time being there and would be better off practicing.
lol better off practicing? so playing a televised match against one the best players in the world is worse practice then random laddering? did you even think at all before you typed that?
And as said before MC's post is probably the best description of this entire situation. He sums everything up perfectly really.
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Naniwa needs to understand that if he wants a better reputation among the players and the community, he needs to stop doing shit like this.
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rofl naniwa is such a joke.
User was warned for this post
User was temp banned for this post.
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@MKPS2: I wonder what all the gamers who wanted to be in that position thought... I really wanted it too...
I think this qoute from MKP is why this was a real slap in the face to fans and players of the game, tuning it to watch the "clash of the kings" for this year of SC2.
It's sad to see a player have no respect for the fans, the organisations building this scene, and the scene as a whole.
I'm sure he doesn't care.
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Wow, it seems that a lot of people in this thread have been willing to delude themselves for a LONG TIME that throwing games because they're meaningless in a tournament doesn't happen.
Sadly I have news for you: it happens all the time. 6 pools, 2-gate proxies, marine+scv all ins. Players don't select these strategies because they believe it's their best chance to win. They select them because it's late, they're tired, and the games don't matter - so fuck it let's get this out of the way and go to bed.
Naniwa's only crime was making this so obvious that even Joe Sixpack could see it. And it turns out Joe didn't realise this happens all the time, and Joe is now butthurt and wants blood.
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Look, this is how I see it.
The game had 0 meaning. Let me say that again. The game had ZERO meaning.
If it meant something for nestea but not naniwa and he threw it, then sure, he's at fault.
But this is a bit ridiculous.
We've seen this soooooooooooooooooooooooooo many times, it's just always in the form of a bad all-in instead of probe rush. I don't understand the way people think
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On December 14 2011 04:13 VegaNZ wrote:Show nested quote +@MKPS2: I wonder what all the gamers who wanted to be in that position thought... I really wanted it too... I think this qoute from MKP is why this was a real slap in the face to fans and players of the game, tuning it to watch the "clash of the kings" for this year of SC2. It's sad to see a player have no respect for the fans, the organisations building this scene, and the scene as a whole. I'm sure he doesn't care.
If a player wanted to be in his position, than that player needed to play harder and better. Naniwa didn't got that place by miracle, he worked for it.
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If it was Idra who worker rushed, everyone would be like "LOL the gracken's mad teehee". But since it's Naniwa, he gets a shitstorm -_-
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On December 14 2011 04:30 Zenislev wrote:
If it was Idra who worker rushed, everyone would be like "LOL the gracken's mad teehee". But since it's Naniwa, he gets a shitstorm -_-
Speaking of IdrA,
@idrajit: don't have meaningless matches if you want players to take them seriously
LOLOL the gracken has spoken  
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On December 14 2011 04:13 VegaNZ wrote:Show nested quote +@MKPS2: I wonder what all the gamers who wanted to be in that position thought... I really wanted it too... I think this qoute from MKP is why this was a real slap in the face to fans and players of the game, tuning it to watch the "clash of the kings" for this year of SC2. It's sad to see a player have no respect for the fans, the organisations building this scene, and the scene as a whole. I'm sure he doesn't care.
at first i want to say that i sympathize with MKP, but his tweet doesn't make any sense if not to say it is pretty stupid.
i mean everyone knows that he meant the players to be in the position to play the tournament, however, it is not like nani threw away every game in that fashion. after going 0-3 he lost his temper, which is understandable.
thinking about MKPs post at this point, would there be one pro that would take the 0-3 spot? guess not.
i wanted mkp to be in this as well, but his post was a bit off the topic.
jm2c
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This is why SC2 doesnt deserve nice things like KeSPA. Cant even imagine this shit will happen in Proleague/OSL.
I have followed SC1 for almost 8 years, and I'm shocked seen Naniwa playing with 1 hand, Im even more shocked seen viewers accept what Naniwa did. Some ppl even "loves" what he did. WDF
Remember, Trolling player is not scary, viewers who encourage trolls are.
Do you wanna see more people doing this shit in the future? if not so stop supporting him.
Yes, I know koreans are overreacting, but the overreacting is necessary here, the bashing is also necessary.
No respect to viewers, producers, casters, sponsors and anyone else involved in making this tournament a success. -Nazgul
If I was the tournament organizer, I wont allow this player play in my tournament again, no matter how good he is. - Chinese GSL caster after the game.
Again, im love to see players with personality, with self-confidence... but not a troll with huge ego.
personality != troll
self-confidence != ego
edit. some typo
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Where are the western reactions? Like Idra and Tyler supporting naniwa?
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On December 14 2011 03:40 Thurokiir wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:38 Prplppleatr wrote:
OO good convo..
It is true that Naniwa does not play to entertain, he is a competitor and plays to win.
That being said it is extremely unfair and downright wrong to say that he was not entertaining. While it may not be your ideal entertainment you need not look any further to see how much controversy/entertainment (as some would call it) it is.
IMO, There are different types of players and each are entertaining in their own right depending on YOUR personality.
The nice guys/in it for the fans: Sheth, White-ra, MC, etc..
The controversial/in it to win it: Idra, Naniwa, etc..
The a$$holes/win no matter what: Combatex, Deezer, etc..
The characters/trolls: Destiny, etc..
+ many others that i am forgetting/too lazy to come up with a description
PS. GOMs reaction, imo, is TERRIBLE, I am extremely disappointed with them and will no longer be supporting. What did they decide? I wasn't aware there was anything to decide about.
They decided to never invite Naniwa to invitational tournaments.
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On December 14 2011 04:56 Prplppleatr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:40 Thurokiir wrote:On December 14 2011 03:38 Prplppleatr wrote:
OO good convo..
It is true that Naniwa does not play to entertain, he is a competitor and plays to win.
That being said it is extremely unfair and downright wrong to say that he was not entertaining. While it may not be your ideal entertainment you need not look any further to see how much controversy/entertainment (as some would call it) it is.
IMO, There are different types of players and each are entertaining in their own right depending on YOUR personality.
The nice guys/in it for the fans: Sheth, White-ra, MC, etc..
The controversial/in it to win it: Idra, Naniwa, etc..
The a$$holes/win no matter what: Combatex, Deezer, etc..
The characters/trolls: Destiny, etc..
+ many others that i am forgetting/too lazy to come up with a description
PS. GOMs reaction, imo, is TERRIBLE, I am extremely disappointed with them and will no longer be supporting. What did they decide? I wasn't aware there was anything to decide about. They decided to never invite Naniwa to invitational tournaments.
So they decided not to invite a player after he threw away a game in one of their most hyped tournaments? I don't see how that is a terrible reaction? Why would they pay a player who potentially is not going to actually play? seems like a pretty legit reaction to me.
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On December 14 2011 05:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 04:56 Prplppleatr wrote:On December 14 2011 03:40 Thurokiir wrote:On December 14 2011 03:38 Prplppleatr wrote:
OO good convo..
It is true that Naniwa does not play to entertain, he is a competitor and plays to win.
That being said it is extremely unfair and downright wrong to say that he was not entertaining. While it may not be your ideal entertainment you need not look any further to see how much controversy/entertainment (as some would call it) it is.
IMO, There are different types of players and each are entertaining in their own right depending on YOUR personality.
The nice guys/in it for the fans: Sheth, White-ra, MC, etc..
The controversial/in it to win it: Idra, Naniwa, etc..
The a$$holes/win no matter what: Combatex, Deezer, etc..
The characters/trolls: Destiny, etc..
+ many others that i am forgetting/too lazy to come up with a description
PS. GOMs reaction, imo, is TERRIBLE, I am extremely disappointed with them and will no longer be supporting. What did they decide? I wasn't aware there was anything to decide about. They decided to never invite Naniwa to invitational tournaments. So they decided not to invite a player after he threw away a game in one of their most hyped tournaments? I don't see how that is a terrible reaction? Why would they pay a player who potentially is not going to actually play? seems like a pretty legit reaction to me.
I should have chosen my words more careful, I meant that I do not believe it was smart. It is legit, as you say, but i do not believe it was smart. But it is their tournament, my reaction is that I am no longer going to support them, to each their own.
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I can't imagine Startale wanting anything to do with Naniwa now with all the negative korean reaction.
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ask Coca what throwing games gets you.
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On December 14 2011 05:47 lagspike_ wrote:
ask Coca what throwing games gets you.
Are you seriously retarded? He threw a game that had a seriously important outcome with respect to the tournament.
This game meant literally NOTHING. Nothing at ALL.
If you can't see the difference, then frankly you're a moron.
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A lot of players would kill to be able to show their skill in a live televised game against Nestea. True it is not a match of significance, but the opportunity to play televised games to the world against a GSL champ should always be grabbed fully.
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On December 14 2011 05:59 ArchDC wrote:
A lot of players would kill to be able to show their skill in a live televised game against Nestea. True it is not a match of significance, but the opportunity to play televised games to the world against a GSL champ should always be grabbed fully.
Then these players should be winning more tournaments. Naniwa was invited because he won the MLG Global Invitational, he wasn't just invited out of kindness. To you Nestea may be a SC2 god, but you forget that Naniwa has beaten him in 2 bo3's prior to this.
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He was actually invited for getting 2nd in MLG Providence.
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On December 14 2011 06:14 MrDudeMan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:59 ArchDC wrote:
A lot of players would kill to be able to show their skill in a live televised game against Nestea. True it is not a match of significance, but the opportunity to play televised games to the world against a GSL champ should always be grabbed fully. Then these players should be winning more tournaments. Naniwa was invited because he won the MLG Global Invitational, he wasn't just invited out of kindness. To you Nestea may be a SC2 god, but you forget that Naniwa has beaten him in 2 bo3's prior to this.
And you think that makes him more deserving than the korean players who consistenly perform in the gsl but don't have the money to travel to overseas tournaments, where the competition is easier? GOMTV clearly set up the blizzard cup invites as to allow for more foreigner vs korean matches, and Naniwa just disrespects them by not trying to play his best in all of his games.
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BoxeR once said that esports would have been nothing without the fans
it would have just been hardcore gamers playing at their house
Esports was made due to the support of the fans
fans want to be entertained and the pro players are the entertainer
what Naniwa did was not at all entertaining whatsoever
it doesnt matter whether the game had any importance
fans wanted to watch a starcraft game to be entertained not this random probe rush
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On December 14 2011 05:24 Prplppleatr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On December 14 2011 04:56 Prplppleatr wrote:On December 14 2011 03:40 Thurokiir wrote:On December 14 2011 03:38 Prplppleatr wrote:
OO good convo..
It is true that Naniwa does not play to entertain, he is a competitor and plays to win.
That being said it is extremely unfair and downright wrong to say that he was not entertaining. While it may not be your ideal entertainment you need not look any further to see how much controversy/entertainment (as some would call it) it is.
IMO, There are different types of players and each are entertaining in their own right depending on YOUR personality.
The nice guys/in it for the fans: Sheth, White-ra, MC, etc..
The controversial/in it to win it: Idra, Naniwa, etc..
The a$$holes/win no matter what: Combatex, Deezer, etc..
The characters/trolls: Destiny, etc..
+ many others that i am forgetting/too lazy to come up with a description
PS. GOMs reaction, imo, is TERRIBLE, I am extremely disappointed with them and will no longer be supporting. What did they decide? I wasn't aware there was anything to decide about. They decided to never invite Naniwa to invitational tournaments. So they decided not to invite a player after he threw away a game in one of their most hyped tournaments? I don't see how that is a terrible reaction? Why would they pay a player who potentially is not going to actually play? seems like a pretty legit reaction to me. I should have chosen my words more careful, I meant that I do not believe it was smart. It is legit, as you say, but i do not believe it was smart. But it is their tournament, my reaction is that I am no longer going to support them, to each their own.
To elaborate, here is a post I made in the other topic:
On December 14 2011 06:35 Prplppleatr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:29 CEO wrote:On December 14 2011 05:22 Prplppleatr wrote:On December 14 2011 05:18 darkest44 wrote:
Can anyone tell me what, if any, actions or punishment GOM took in response? I read somewhere that they had given their response but have not found anywhere what it actually was. Anyone? They decided they will never invite Naniwa to an invitational tournament. Even though he didn't break any rules? That seems silly. I agree, silly as well as dumb. As someone has said, and as i have said, look at the the controversy/PR/entertainment this has got. For GOM to say they will never invite him is the same as shooting themselves in the foot, i mean think of how much hype korean v naniwa matches are going to get now..why would you say such a harsh thing, why not something like, "we will be modifying our rules to take actions such as this into account when inviting players to tournaments" then you aren't even singling Naniwa out and it sends a message to ALL progamers, not just Naniwa. The way they are handling this is simply singling him out which is WRONG. It is the act that people are mad about, not the person. Once again, Terrible decision that was not smart. You have lost my support GOM.
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On December 13 2011 23:38 MildSeven wrote:
Understanding this from the Korean perspective, what Naniwa did was absolutely taboo, because of the long Korean tradition and emphasis on trying your best even when it didn't affect results. Consider this, what would Boxer or NaDa do, look at HerO as well, trying his hardest even though he ended up 0-4 anyways. I personally can understand the rationale behind Naniwa's move, but if we look at this from a broader scope of what Esports means to the Korean culture, what the integrity of each game is to them, then this is more serious than it seems.
I think it's also really sad many people here replied things such as "fuck esports mainstream bullshit", or "are you mad?" (to those who frown upon Naniwa's actions) and supporting Naniwa's actions in the most cliche "he's so badass, i am so counter-culture for supporting him"-attitude. I for one really enjoying each and every game, even when not much is on the line, because when I watch the GSL, i usually know for a fact that players do try even when nothing much is on the line. Like MC fighting his little heart out against DRG even though he would have gone through either way.
Also, what naniwa did can't be compared to the actions of Coca, because it was completely on his own will, he didn't consult with Nestea about throwing the match, etc, it was the spur of the moment stupid decision, nonetheless still a decision in very unprofessional and poor taste. This game is a competitive professional game, and it really does matter, I can't believe some people would argue that it's ok to do an action such as this. Would Nadal and Federer just double-fault all day in a exhibition match just to get it over with because it doesn't matter of the results? No, because professional competitive sports/games is about performance for the fans as well, you go in with the dignity of acknowledging that, many foreigners don't have as much respect for starcraft on the same level because of their ignorance of how Koreans percieve coompetitive gaming as a whole. The international scene may have more money, but it's clear from the responses of many people here that the prestige and essence of the game still lies in Korea where the game intrinsically matters more than just a few groups of cliche highschool kids going "u mad? lolololol".
+1, great post!
User was warned for this post
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37011 Posts
That last tweet from MKP :[
Aww...... DON'T WORRY MKP! YOUR TIME IS COMING SOON!
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On December 14 2011 06:39 Prplppleatr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:24 Prplppleatr wrote:On December 14 2011 05:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On December 14 2011 04:56 Prplppleatr wrote:On December 14 2011 03:40 Thurokiir wrote:On December 14 2011 03:38 Prplppleatr wrote:
OO good convo..
It is true that Naniwa does not play to entertain, he is a competitor and plays to win.
That being said it is extremely unfair and downright wrong to say that he was not entertaining. While it may not be your ideal entertainment you need not look any further to see how much controversy/entertainment (as some would call it) it is.
IMO, There are different types of players and each are entertaining in their own right depending on YOUR personality.
The nice guys/in it for the fans: Sheth, White-ra, MC, etc..
The controversial/in it to win it: Idra, Naniwa, etc..
The a$$holes/win no matter what: Combatex, Deezer, etc..
The characters/trolls: Destiny, etc..
+ many others that i am forgetting/too lazy to come up with a description
PS. GOMs reaction, imo, is TERRIBLE, I am extremely disappointed with them and will no longer be supporting. What did they decide? I wasn't aware there was anything to decide about. They decided to never invite Naniwa to invitational tournaments. So they decided not to invite a player after he threw away a game in one of their most hyped tournaments? I don't see how that is a terrible reaction? Why would they pay a player who potentially is not going to actually play? seems like a pretty legit reaction to me. I should have chosen my words more careful, I meant that I do not believe it was smart. It is legit, as you say, but i do not believe it was smart. But it is their tournament, my reaction is that I am no longer going to support them, to each their own. To elaborate, here is a post I made in the other topic: Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 06:35 Prplppleatr wrote:On December 14 2011 05:29 CEO wrote:On December 14 2011 05:22 Prplppleatr wrote:On December 14 2011 05:18 darkest44 wrote:
Can anyone tell me what, if any, actions or punishment GOM took in response? I read somewhere that they had given their response but have not found anywhere what it actually was. Anyone? They decided they will never invite Naniwa to an invitational tournament. Even though he didn't break any rules? That seems silly. I agree, silly as well as dumb. As someone has said, and as i have said, look at the the controversy/PR/entertainment this has got. For GOM to say they will never invite him is the same as shooting themselves in the foot, i mean think of how much hype korean v naniwa matches are going to get now..why would you say such a harsh thing, why not something like, "we will be modifying our rules to take actions such as this into account when inviting players to tournaments" then you aren't even singling Naniwa out and it sends a message to ALL progamers, not just Naniwa. The way they are handling this is simply singling him out which is WRONG. It is the act that people are mad about, not the person. Once again, Terrible decision that was not smart. You have lost my support GOM.
You could say that while this has brought "PR" (in the form of controversy) to GOM, its whether they see the idea of all PR (whether good or bad) as being good for their business. As much as it may seem "fine" now, what if Naniwa does this at other invitational tournament (at group stages) he's invited to. While this may draw in more people overseas, it doesn't bode well with the korean people and culture especially since it is one area that SC2 growth is lacking. Personally I would give Naniwa a very harsh warning but not exclude him from potential future events. The tweets on Naniwa from oGsMC gives a good indication of my opinion on the matter too.
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Naniwas actions have embarassed the foreign community and make me feel sick. I can't believe he would show such disrespect. He deserves to be banned from GOM tournaments, as his actions reflect his poor mental state and attitude. Frankly I think he should consider retiring after this
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Personal view inc:
Funny thing is that all those who cry and say "thats not a professional" and "a professional should do yada yada etc etc..."... I hope those are the same guys that would like to see rigged Don King matches or has nothing against WWC or what it´s called?
Personally I hate all fake things when it comes to things or sports I love like SC2, Football and Ice Hockey. I want to see REAL matches when you know it´s A game vs A game, top of the elite vs top of the elite. I don´t have much for friendlys in either sport.
Cheeze rushes and that kind of thing is also boring cause it´s often build order "luck". I remember idra talking with Artosis about who are good in the GSL. He said things like "player X only does cheezy all ins but he is terrible" about a code S Terran. That imho Isn´t real entertaining SC2 skill to me and according to idras twitter he is on the same line. He might as well have been 6 pooled himself and I would think it was as shitty a game as a probe rush.
The fact that so many korean players from different teams whine about this makes it even better. Like the official MVP Twitter being outraged about how Nestea trained etc... It´s so obvious that all the Korean pro gamers have their own little club when it comes to bashing foreigners... I see it as the korean teams getting together and training with Nestea just to beat the Foreigner who took down the two Korean multiple GSL champs and now prepared furiously to restore Korean pride vs Naniwa or something. When Naniwa who wasn´t taking it seriously and ofc was tilted just probe rushed he made it impossible for the Korean hero to take any real revenge on the upstart foreigner and thus the Korean scene cried together.
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On December 14 2011 06:53 zOula... wrote:
Naniwas actions have embarassed the foreign community and make me feel sick. I can't believe he would show such disrespect. He deserves to be banned from GOM tournaments, as his actions reflect his poor mental state and attitude. Frankly I think he should consider retiring after this
wow.
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Everyone needs to stop bitching so much comeon! It was a completely meaningless match! Both Naniwa and Nestea was out of the tournament anyway...
And all Naniwas games were so freaking close I can imagine him being pissed after those games! I would be too!
You are defiently still the number 1 foreign player Naniwa ! For sure !
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On December 14 2011 06:53 zOula... wrote:
Naniwas actions have embarassed the foreign community and make me feel sick. I can't believe he would show such disrespect. He deserves to be banned from GOM tournaments, as his actions reflect his poor mental state and attitude. Frankly I think he should consider retiring after this
Youre a cool guy.. lol. Actually you are the emberassing part of it all, making an elephant out of a fly.
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MC has fail logic.
Leaving vs someone when 3-0 vs someone 0-3 is way more rude than leaving when both are out anyway.
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Zurich15325 Posts
Is this a misconception or are these unusually harsh reactions by public Korean figures?
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On December 14 2011 06:53 zOula... wrote:
Naniwas actions have embarassed the foreign community and make me feel sick. I can't believe he would show such disrespect. He deserves to be banned from GOM tournaments, as his actions reflect his poor mental state and attitude. Frankly I think he should consider retiring after this
It's people like yourself that make me sick to my stomach. You call your self a starcraft fan yet tell a player to retire when he didn't want to feel like shit in front of a bunch of people.
You're the disrespectful one, all the naniwa haters are.
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If both of them were already out, then it was a pointless match and stupid to stay in and play. Nestea might seem he wanted to play, but honestly after you get 0-3 in your group, why would you want to stay and play. GOM is stupid for making them play it imo. Nani shouldn't be called disrespectful either. Put yourself in his shoes b4 you go and say he should be banned and stuff...
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Hong Kong9152 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:53 zOula... wrote:
Naniwas actions have embarassed the foreign community and make me feel sick. I can't believe he would show such disrespect. He deserves to be banned from GOM tournaments, as his actions reflect his poor mental state and attitude. Frankly I think he should consider retiring after this
Speak for yourself, you are not the overarching spokesperson of the foreigner community. You, yourself, are embarrassed, and over not much, in my opinion.
Frankly, people like you who embroil themselves in knee-jerk circlejerks over artificial drama are the real embarrassment of the foreigner community.
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Completely lost all respect to Naniwa...
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I don't see a problem at all. People never put themselves in the athlete's shoes and understand how tired from training they are.
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On December 14 2011 07:28 zatic wrote:
Is this a misconception or are these unusually harsh reactions by public Korean figures?
wouldnt surprise me if they think that their national pride hurt because Nestea didnt get the chance to fight Nani again
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Stop the drama. If you play to win you find no joy in playing a pointless game. IMHO it doesn't matter at all if he played a stupid proxy gate, cannon rush or probe rush - if someone is offended by that, I wouldn't care.
Naniwa! Go! <3
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On December 14 2011 07:28 zatic wrote:
Is this a misconception or are these unusually harsh reactions by public Korean figures?
Looks like a misconception to me.
Seriously, these were harsh? All I see mostly are "LOL LOL LOL," "WTF," and some mild comments from a few others - mostly the same shit I've seen from public foreigner figures about this drama. Only Choya's and the MVP Team's comments can be construed as "harsh."
I don't understand where people are getting all of this 'Korean players are overreacting' crap from. The Korean netizens, sure, but again, we have a huge contingent of foreigners on these and other forums overreacting as well.
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On December 14 2011 08:28 IMMABEASTBRUH wrote:
God damn I love ogsMC
Me too and here's why (besides his response).
+ Show Spoiler +In his group for the final match he was against DRG. If he won he'd get #2 in his group and if he lost he'd get #3. Neither position matters since 2 and 3 both have to play a first round match. I kept thinking MC doesn't even have to try because it doesn't matter to him, but there is no question he still went all out trying to defeat DRG. He could have gg way earlier, but tried his hardest to come back and for a couple minutes it looked like him might beat DRG. Anyway, yesterday before this even happened, I had so much respect for MC playing the games out.
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They see probes rollin' . They hatin'
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omg who cares
nani is too real for all the korean nerds out there
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From now on lets play ALL the games in a BoX regardless if a player cant win otherwise its completly disrepectful towards the viewers. I dont care if its 4-0 in a Bo7 I want three more matches just becuase.
Sarcasm off.
Naniwa did nothing wrong, he actually thinks there is no honor in wasting his or other peoples time with pointless showmatches when there is a tournament going on.
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Choya must be upset that Nani didn't challenge NesTea to a game of rock paper scissors. That guy really shouldn't have said anything. Let's get CoCa's thoughts too...
MC though, MC tweets like a boss. Everyone should be more like White-Ra. <3
I think Naniwa's "win or fuck it" attitude probably serves him quite well, and has helped him get this far, but the "fuck it" part sometimes gets him in trouble... but he did say in the interview he'll just 4gate next time, so lesson learned.
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pretty disgusted by the overreaction by the koreans. as korean myself i can safely say that we get anal about the tiniest infractions and signs of disrespect. literally, we lose our heads over nothing and stubbornly bicker to the bitter end. from a RATIONAL point of view, that game had no meaning and nani did not want to waste the time of the audience who wanted to see real games with REAL value. Thus, he acknowledged this failure and ended the game in the quickest way possible.
edit:
Also I would like to clearly point out the fact that there were 11 other fking games to watch. Not sure how nani throwing one game took away from the viewers so called "right" to watch super uber epic games. Everyone got what they wanted.
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5003 Posts
It's worth noting choya got a ton of shit for his tweet
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On December 14 2011 08:46 wolverinehokie wrote:Me too and here's why (besides his response). + Show Spoiler +In his group for the final match he was against DRG. If he won he'd get #2 in his group and if he lost he'd get #3. Neither position matters since 2 and 3 both have to play a first round match. I kept thinking MC doesn't even have to try because it doesn't matter to him, but there is no question he still went all out trying to defeat DRG. He could have gg way earlier, but tried his hardest to come back and for a couple minutes it looked like him might beat DRG. Anyway, yesterday before this even happened, I had so much respect for MC playing the games out.
Yeah, I'm glad I got to watch MC vs. DRG then chose to go to sleep.
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On December 14 2011 07:21 PanN wrote:
MC has fail logic.
Leaving vs someone when 3-0 vs someone 0-3 is way more rude than leaving when both are out anyway.
Not really. The logic is the same. The game won't matter since one is already secured #1 (as he stated) and the other has been eliminated already.
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It's AMAZING it has been blown out to this proportion.
What the fuck is wrong with all of you? It's such a trivial concern. You missed out on one game? Like we aren't spoilt for content as it is.
Also, Koreans are god-damned cowards, that's pretty evident.
User was warned for this post
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did I miss the shitstorm of threads when idra didnt show up to a placement match at mlg (wouldve earnt abit of extra cash) or is naniwa getting special treatment again?
anyway the probe rush was fucken hilarious. the match meant nothing, atleast we got some shock value out of it
would rather have the naniwa v nestea rematch in a set of games (not a single game..) where they actually had something to play for
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On December 14 2011 09:50 Circos wrote:
It's AMAZING it has been blown out to this proportion.
What the fuck is wrong with all of you? It's such a trivial concern. You missed out on one game? Like we aren't spoilt for content as it is.
Also, Koreans are god-damned cowards, that's pretty evident.
People who have passion for the game take shit seriously.
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On December 14 2011 09:50 Circos wrote:
It's AMAZING it has been blown out to this proportion.
What the fuck is wrong with all of you? It's such a trivial concern. You missed out on one game? Like we aren't spoilt for content as it is.
Also, Koreans are god-damned cowards, that's pretty evident.
If only pro-gaming wasn't a job...
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I don't think this is anything to get worked up about. Nani played his heart out in the first 3 games, and when he lost, he didn't want to waste time on a game that was completely meaningless. Imo the koreans were the ones who made them selves look bad with their yucky reactions. Naniwa deserves to be a progamer, and throwing a meaningless game should be no big deal at all.
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the amount of people seeing it as "omfg calm down nerds its just a game" or blatant naniwa fanboys is actually shocking
the fact of the matter is, they are PRO-GAMERS
pro-gamers
professional
you don't pull this kind of shit in the professional world if you wanna be taken seriously. naniwa got a spot in the coveted blizzard cup and made a mockery out of it
"just another tournament for me" indeed
of course koreans are gonna take this seriously, their passion for the scene is inspiring even if their crowds arent as loud/energetic as foreign ones.
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Personally, I thought it was funny and not the least bit upsetting, but fully respect the pros that were like, "WTF". Especially MKP, his reaction just made me sad
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Wow, MKP reaction is really heartbreaking T_T
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Why is this situation lamer then, when Idra played 2 roach all-ins against MC and knew he cant win, and after that he whined about imbalace a little bit??? And that one wasn't a pointless game like this. Though I understand the people who get upset, just dont understand why is it such a biger deal then anything else.
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On December 14 2011 09:21 Milkis wrote:
It's worth noting choya got a ton of shit for his tweet
A wild milkis appears!
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Whoever it was tweeting on the MVP official twitter (I assume the coach) lost all my respect. Even more unprofessional than Naniwa deciding not to play out the game. What I think re: Naniwa's decision? "What a joke." What I think about the MVP coach? "What a fucking asshole."
Also, I like Choya, but he really shouldn't be saying anything given his record.
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On December 13 2011 22:20 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:19 0ne wrote:
Isn't coca out of code S for throwing meaningless game in an online tournament? byun is also sitting out of gsl for it
Being given a Code A spot isn't at all meaningless
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At first I understood naniwa's decision, whatever the result of the match would not benefit him in any way.
However, after reading the Korean's tweets, I feel ashamed for feeling that way. And Naniwa, who is an actual pro-gamer must feel even more ashamed. MC, Nestea, Mvp, and the others who tweeted, you can see they are really passionate about the game.
Sure, Naniwa always talks about wanting to be the best, isn't this also passion? I believe "passion" is something extra, not solely competitiveness and the drive to win. And when I describe MC, Nestea, Mvp as passionate, I am not talking about their multiple GSL trophies. By that I mean their love of the game, community, and what being a pro-gamer and sitting in the booth means to them.
It seems growing up in Korea, they witnessed pro-gaming in its infancy, and appreciate everything that it has become. While naniwa is like the spoiled kid from rich parents who's vision is narrowed toward only things that can benefit him. E-sports started as sharing the thrill of competition to others. Let's not lose our roots.
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On December 14 2011 07:28 zatic wrote:
Is this a misconception or are these unusually harsh reactions by public Korean figures?
I reckon they're being clever and massively exaggerating their discontent to manufacture drama, the goal being to create villains and rivalries and make esports more entertaining in a WWE kind of way. i bet it'll also work too, i am certainly popcorn.jpg-ing it up while glancing this thread and will have that much more interest now when i follow the next naniwa match in a major tournament against any korean that's at all close to the big name 'haters'
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I'm guessing he won't do this again just because I'm sure all of the trouble wasn't worth it. I really didn't see any problem with him throwing the game. There are players in many sports that get emotional don't always conduct themselves with the utmost professionalism. This might be annoying to some fans but it also provides uncertainty and an entertainment factor as well. This wouldn't have even been considered a "grudge" match if Naniwa hadn't lipped off earlier about Nestea. If this isn't being marketed for its entertainment value, then I think that it should be. I don't even have a take on Naniwa here, but there are good guys and bad guys in life, so why not starcraft?
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Lol @ MVP House's comment. Not surprised no one liked him there. They finally have a chance to make it public.
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Agree with MKP. Plenty who maybe derserve/ will cherish the opportunity squandered, imo, by naniwa by forfeting.
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How can you guys say "I really didn't see any problem with him throwing the game." To throw a game.. for nothing other than your emotions... it's disrespectful to not only your opponent and your fans, but to yourself. What about all the people who cheer you on? I heard that GGplay (who was dirt poor) once personally paid for one of his fans to come to his match.
The BW proscene (esports) is something built on the passion of the players, love of the game, and the dedication of fans. Generations of progamers have given up proper education, reasonable sleeping quarters, and lived off ramen for years to play the game they love and fans come from all over the world and create amazing communities and events (Teamliquid) to support their favorites. Literally building from nothing, Starcraft manged to create established, professional gaming purely through the sweat and tears of players and fans.
Even in more established sports, you don't see this kind of shoddy sportsmanship. If you don't play because you love the game and for the fans who idolize you, you're not a progamer. If Naniwa didn't play because he didn't want to "waste his time", that implies that to him, gaming without monetary reward is a waste of time. What a joke of a progamer.
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On December 14 2011 10:41 kineticSYN wrote:
the amount of people seeing it as "omfg calm down nerds its just a game" or blatant naniwa fanboys is actually shocking
the fact of the matter is, they are PRO-GAMERS
pro-gamers
professional
you don't pull this kind of shit in the professional world if you wanna be taken seriously. naniwa got a spot in the coveted blizzard cup and made a mockery out of it
"just another tournament for me" indeed
of course koreans are gonna take this seriously, their passion for the scene is inspiring even if their crowds arent as loud/energetic as foreign ones.
Just like Hawthorn in the AFL took their B team to The Gold Coast in their round 24 match, their ladder position was locked so why risk key players to a no meaning game. Very unprofessional of them.
How many pro sports teams have tanked for draft picks? Lots of them.
I'm generally indifferent to Nani's experience but to all the people who said he doesn't deserve to be there etc etc... YES HE DOES, HE EARNED THAT SPOT. IF SOMEONE ELSE DESERVED IT MORE THEY WOULD OF BEATEN HIM.
It's got nothing to do with being a fanboy or anything along those lines, it's about applying some common sense to the situation and not acting like a bunch of spoiled prats.
It's this kind of rable rable rable pitchfork out mentality that really turns people off esports.
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On December 14 2011 13:58 PraiseB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 10:41 kineticSYN wrote:
the amount of people seeing it as "omfg calm down nerds its just a game" or blatant naniwa fanboys is actually shocking
the fact of the matter is, they are PRO-GAMERS
pro-gamers
professional
you don't pull this kind of shit in the professional world if you wanna be taken seriously. naniwa got a spot in the coveted blizzard cup and made a mockery out of it
"just another tournament for me" indeed
of course koreans are gonna take this seriously, their passion for the scene is inspiring even if their crowds arent as loud/energetic as foreign ones. Just like Hawthorn in the AFL took their B team to The Gold Coast in their round 24 match, their ladder position was locked so why risk key players to a no meaning game. Very unprofessional of them. How many pro sports teams have tanked for draft picks? Lots of them. I'm generally indifferent to Nani's experience but to all the people who said he doesn't deserve to be there etc etc... YES HE DOES, HE EARNED THAT SPOT. IF SOMEONE ELSE DESERVED IT MORE THEY WOULD OF BEATEN HIM. It's got nothing to do with being a fanboy or anything along those lines, it's about applying some common sense to the situation and not acting like a bunch of spoiled prats. It's this kind of rable rable rable pitchfork out mentality that really turns people off esports.
Like I just said, those teams have a clear goal when they throw games. Naniwa didn't play because he felt like it. Instead of feeling sorry for himself, maybe he should think of how sad his fans are and play all harder for them.
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On December 14 2011 13:58 PraiseB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 10:41 kineticSYN wrote:
the amount of people seeing it as "omfg calm down nerds its just a game" or blatant naniwa fanboys is actually shocking
the fact of the matter is, they are PRO-GAMERS
pro-gamers
professional
you don't pull this kind of shit in the professional world if you wanna be taken seriously. naniwa got a spot in the coveted blizzard cup and made a mockery out of it
"just another tournament for me" indeed
of course koreans are gonna take this seriously, their passion for the scene is inspiring even if their crowds arent as loud/energetic as foreign ones. Just like Hawthorn in the AFL took their B team to The Gold Coast in their round 24 match, their ladder position was locked so why risk key players to a no meaning game. Very unprofessional of them. How many pro sports teams have tanked for draft picks? Lots of them. I'm generally indifferent to Nani's experience but to all the people who said he doesn't deserve to be there etc etc... YES HE DOES, HE EARNED THAT SPOT. IF SOMEONE ELSE DESERVED IT MORE THEY WOULD OF BEATEN HIM. It's got nothing to do with being a fanboy or anything along those lines, it's about applying some common sense to the situation and not acting like a bunch of spoiled prats. It's this kind of rable rable rable pitchfork out mentality that really turns people off esports.
Team sport is different than individual/team. You think people in Golf tournaments who clearly can not get 1st will tank it? Arguably they do not since the prize pool is distributed a bit better. And you have fans to play for and hope to do better next time for them.
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Huh, the Korean response isn't as harsh as I thought it would be. Guess because it's the progamers and coaches being quoted in this thread, and they're restraining themselves. Need to see some actual netizen reactions
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I just wished he had played. I expected a sweet rematch of Nestea vs. Naniwa and he pulled that. I just don't understand why, none of his excuses or his teams do justice..
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back then MKP do Marine all-in in GSL final. Idra leaves the game bcuz of a stupid Bunker in front. those games have more on the line than Naniwa vs Nestea. but how come this one got so much responds by people. he just doing what is in everyone mind. you know you'll do it if you were in his position.
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Throwing the match is pretty lame, but i understand his position nobody really wants to play a consolation game for nothing after some hard losses. nestea is being victimized and thats really why i cant take this to seriously, people are just turning it into a sob story and being way to sensitive as usual. It was a meaningless match and shouldn't have even been played in the first place.
In real sports pros do a lot worse shit to each other verbally and physically, tank games for draft picks etc. This wont hurt ESPORTS at all, that cry is getting really old to because every little damn incident that happens gets blown out of proportion and everyone runs around with megaphones screaming about the end of esports. You know those crazy people who walk around with signs about how the world is going to end next week because some guy on the radio said so, thats what this community looks like every time something happens.
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Totally agree with the comments, Naniwa is a total douche for what he did.
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Does Naniwa have Asperger's or something? He seems so awkward and oblivious to social norms sometimes.
And I reeeeeeeally need to stay away from these nestea/naniwa threads, I always leave annoyed -_-
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Gotta love Naniwas logic: He knew he wasn't going to play his best and satisfy his fans so he decides to A move his probes into his opponents base. Yeah, you know cause THAT won't be incredibly disappointing for the fan base.
He should have just 4 gated like he said and yeah, there probably wouldn't be anywhere near this kind of reaction. Yes, in principle, throwing the game with a 4 gate is the same as throwing it with the probe rush. But a probe rush is about one micron away from just plain leaving the game the moment it starts. There is a minimum of effort expected from the fans, especially the korean ones who would have stepped over their own MOTHER to have been in Naniwas position.
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omg mkp <3
choya and the coaches....
they seem like they already hated naniwa and were waiting to say this...
its none of their business... esp choya wtf.
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So the koreans are mad that a foreigner demonstrated another shift in the meta-game? There is no need to be so jealous, this isn't brood war.
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On December 14 2011 18:56 Amlitzer wrote:
So the koreans are mad that a foreigner demonstrated another shift in the meta-game? There is no need to be so jealous, this isn't brood war.
Nal_Ra was probe rushing before it was cool. lol
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Would'nt it be boring if there were no characters like naniwa in sc2? i think that he is very entertaining on his own way.. You need some guys that are out of normal
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It's so ironic that these guys are calling him out as unprofessional in public statements. How professional is shit-slinging? It's a damn shame that some players I really respected have acted like that. MVP was what I would have called my favorite SC2 team. It is appalling that they stooped to this level.
There is so much drama that being an ESPORTS fan is like standing in line at an American supermarket. Tabloid bullshit all around you and that one parent can't shut their obnoxious kids up.
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On December 13 2011 21:30 Waxangel wrote:
@oGsMC: I was really lost for words after watching today's game. Does he even know what the word "pro" is? My role model for professionalism is White-Ra. He really loves his fans, and doesn't give up his games until the end, and he's very mannered towards everyone. Does anyone dislike White-Ra?
I hope Naniwa can look at White-Ra and change his mentality. I don't think it's right to do that, not considering your opponent at all. I wish he'd think about how he would have felt if I had gone 3-0 and confirmed #1 in my group, and he was 0-3, and I thought that since I'm 1st place nothing matters and just GG'd out of my game against him.
Well, if you there's no big deal because there's no money on the the line, then I can't say anything to that, you're just not a pro. After seeing Naniwa, I thought HerO was all the more awesome for being so upset about losing his games yesterday.
Wow, MC's response is best out of all of these IMO. He doesn't even have to resort to nasty language to make naniwa look like a fool.
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You cannot say that he isn't a pro or does't deserve it, for he is a great player.
But this is disrespectful, and shows that he doesn't possess the mentality of the best in the world.
Nani, shape up! Don't pull that stuff, people will get so aggravated.
NesTea, sorry for having to practice so hard in vain, but at least be happy that you are more humble than your opponent.
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I would really like to know wether Nani tried to evade the last game and was "forced" to play, or if he didnt even try to get away from the match. Throwing a game like that, in a tournament of that caliber, when you know that you're depending on sponsors and that you are part of a team, a larger body of people who you represent, is quite silly. Having followed Nani for quite some time, I still cant shake the feeling of dissapointment, altough this is who he is.
A quickie to all those people comparing it to throwing games in other sports, I hope you have considered that this was an invitational tournament (as people have said before) and that the hype was huge (atleast for me and my friends) to see the "greatest players" duking it out. It was highly focused on the spectators and in my humble oppinion the players should understand that.
I am very glad that Nani said he was sorry in the interview, and I dont think the punishment is too harsh (unless its a permanent ban, which Id really hate to see). Cant help to love him for who he is, but I dont agree with what he did.
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Dominican Republic39 Posts
Im glad they just give him and everyone else a lesson, you got fans, and lots of viewers, you have to play even if you will not get money for it, it was just one free game!.. that's why they label him as a money hunter...
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WHAT THE F********** GUYS???!?!? You bashing him too? Dude, get real, seriously... You've just been cheese'd 2 times in a row and you're fucked about it... He cheesed too, it's nothing different... It's not like he's the only gamer in the whole wide world who blows they're nerves after they've played crappy or been taken by surprise with cheeses... What did anyone lose here? NesTea losing his birthday? Better learn to prioritize... Take my advice guys, B-day before work, especially when you can decide about it like these guys can. If there's anyone here that can give me a good argument that they seriously lost something, then fine, I'll admit it, until now, there's been none... If you can't give me the argument, I rest my case
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I wouldn't care if there wasn't money involved. Its a careless and selfish move. Naniwa is a great player, but he lost my respect for doing this.
I wonder how Quantic and their sponsers would take this ? I would kick him out/stop sponsoring. Yes its a "dead" game, but your playing for respect and professionalism.
And after saying sorry(which would fix this) he goes on to say its not a big deal....
This is why I think it will take time for esport to grow, because people & and alot of players dont understand how they got where they are; through sponsors and teams. This is why it should become more important to stay professional when on camera/events, because you will be showing f.e Intels trademark while saying/doing shit like this.
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imo the problem is the fans pay money to see the game. im obviously a huge fan of starcraft, i bought the season ticket. i want to see the games play out since im not just checking the results instead of buying the ticket. and especially if im a big fan of naniwa in particular, which im not, but i am excited about him playing nestea. so hes out of this tournament? fine, i get to see him play one of the best, if not the best zerg in the world! nope, hes too mad. im glad im not a fan of his.
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On December 15 2011 04:07 tykonn wrote:
imo the problem is the fans pay money to see the game. im obviously a huge fan of starcraft, i bought the season ticket. i want to see the games play out since im not just checking the results instead of buying the ticket. and especially if im a big fan of naniwa in particular, which im not, but i am excited about him playing nestea. so hes out of this tournament? fine, i get to see him play one of the best, if not the best zerg in the world! nope, hes too mad. im glad im not a fan of his.
Agreed, and couple that with the fact that he was an invite
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TeamMVP wtf, where is your professionalism, he was a former teammate no matter what.
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This thread isn't this long because of Naniwa. It's because there are people supporting what he did.
Type "injured runner fini" into google. See what automatically pops up.
To support what Naniwa did is to troll SC2 and the foundation BroodWar established for e-sports.
There will be a percentage of people that will ask "why so serious??"
They probably wouldn't understand why this guy finished a race he already got last place in.
![[image loading]](http://a.espncdn.com/i/page2/photos/040530redmond.jpg)
They probably wouldn't understand why Boxer plays out games until every unit dies.
They probably wouldn't understand why Artosis ranted about Starcraft being better than Zelda.
They probably wouldn't understand why Artosis gets nerd chills and is almost brought to tears because of what Starcraft has become.
People talk trash about Koreans. If it was up to a country full of Naniwas (and I'm not talking about Sweden) you all would be trolling on youtube and imdb because starcraft would be dead. The pride, respect, dedication and honor that Koreans have poured into this game has made an improbable situation a reality--they have made a video game a sport.
Naniwa had an opportunity to give the foreign community one more foothold to catching up to the Koreans. All he had to do was give it his all and play a good game. Regardless of win or loss, I'm sure Nestea would have respected that. We all would have. Instead he cowered out. Now its just one more unspoken reason why Koreans will consider us amateurs, semi-pros at best.
Every sport has its heroes that we rally behind.
In most sports the community has a face. Basketball fans/players go to 24 fitness and play. You can't hide behind anonymity. The court is the forum.
Unfortunately, the internet allows trolls to come out in full force. The fact that Nani trolled GSL and the whole SC2 community and that he has this much support for doing it is sad. I'm not talking about sympathizers that forgive him. Sure, we all deserve a second, or third chance. The fact that people don't see what's the problem and think it was a good move makes us look really bad. Definitely a step back for the foreigner community.
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On December 15 2011 06:39 phershey wrote:
This thread isn't this long because of Naniwa. It's because there are people supporting what he did.
There is a difference between people supporting what he did and people having a sense of realism about how significant or understandable what he did was, or to what degree he's at fault for anything. It definitely doesn't help the game when the entire pro culture lambasts him like children just because it's the easy and popular opinion. I am not impressed by these responses.
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I am just sad that this happened in general gl in the future nani shape up broskie
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On December 13 2011 21:30 Waxangel wrote:
@oGsMC: I was really lost for words after watching today's game. Does he even know what the word "pro" is? My role model for professionalism is White-Ra. He really loves his fans, and doesn't give up his games until the end, and he's very mannered towards everyone. Does anyone dislike White-Ra?
I hope Naniwa can look at White-Ra and change his mentality. I don't think it's right to do that, not considering your opponent at all. I wish he'd think about how he would have felt if I had gone 3-0 and confirmed #1 in my group, and he was 0-3, and I thought that since I'm 1st place nothing matters and just GG'd out of my game against him.
Well, if you there's no big deal because there's no money on the the line, then I can't say anything to that, you're just not a pro. After seeing Naniwa, I thought HerO was all the more awesome for being so upset about losing his games yesterday.
I hope a lot of players agree with this.
White-Ra is a good rolemodel for players who like BM-ing tournaments and their staff -- and other players in general.
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Didn't Nestea crisize Huk in one of the tournaments for playing too serious on a game that meant nothing? This is all garbage.
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Ahh, I so get MarineKing's disapointment
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On December 15 2011 07:17 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 06:39 phershey wrote:
This thread isn't this long because of Naniwa. It's because there are people supporting what he did. There is a difference between people supporting what he did and people having a sense of realism about how significant or understandable what he did was, or to what degree he's at fault for anything. It definitely doesn't help the game when the entire pro culture lambasts him like children just because it's the easy and popular opinion. I am not impressed by these responses.
Seems like you dont understand the implication this kind of behavior has(Naniwa, not the players slamming him).
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All I have to say on the matter of Koreans commenting on this subject is that Choya should post some pictures of that glass house he lives in. After he was caught doing what he did on the ladder he really is one to talk.
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Kind of funny Choya says that when he does Rock Paper Scissors on ladder.
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United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
On December 13 2011 21:41 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Sorry, but naniwa is a god damn moron. Not just for this, but the fact that he did it after he comes off just less than a month of like 5 controversial things. It's so fucking stupid to put yourself into a position like this and have any more shit on your record. I can't believe people are still defending him when he has a long, long history of this kind of stuff and this wasn't just a "1 time" or even "few time" thing. He really needs to learn to control himself and just suck it up for the same of his career. This.
+ if Any Korean manages to translate the stuff written on this thread, then the foreigner community is going to look like a bunch of disrespectful, amoral and cheeky netizens.
I'm not even Korean and I see what Naniwa did to Korean E-sports. He made a fool of it. And he apologised. (sincere applause). Hope he remembers not to be outright rude towards his opponent, the competition and the fans.
Well done Quantic Gaming / Naniwa for the clean-up afterwards. Thumbs down for the idiotic behaviour of angry-foreign-netizens afterwards.
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Koreans speak alot about respect and honour but some of these players seem to have none of that. Choya and team MVP especially seem to lack any honour or respect, I hope noone invites them to foreign events.
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+ Show Spoiler +On December 15 2011 06:39 phershey wrote:This thread isn't this long because of Naniwa. It's because there are people supporting what he did. Type "injured runner fini" into google. See what automatically pops up. To support what Naniwa did is to troll SC2 and the foundation BroodWar established for e-sports. There will be a percentage of people that will ask "why so serious??" They probably wouldn't understand why this guy finished a race he already got last place in. They probably wouldn't understand why Boxer plays out games until every unit dies. They probably wouldn't understand why Artosis ranted about Starcraft being better than Zelda. They probably wouldn't understand why Artosis gets nerd chills and is almost brought to tears because of what Starcraft has become. People talk trash about Koreans. If it was up to a country full of Naniwas (and I'm not talking about Sweden) you all would be trolling on youtube and imdb because starcraft would be dead. The pride, respect, dedication and honor that Koreans have poured into this game has made an improbable situation a reality--they have made a video game a sport. Naniwa had an opportunity to give the foreign community one more foothold to catching up to the Koreans. All he had to do was give it his all and play a good game. Regardless of win or loss, I'm sure Nestea would have respected that. We all would have. Instead he cowered out. Now its just one more unspoken reason why Koreans will consider us amateurs, semi-pros at best. Every sport has its heroes that we rally behind. In most sports the community has a face. Basketball fans/players go to 24 fitness and play. You can't hide behind anonymity. The court is the forum. Unfortunately, the internet allows trolls to come out in full force. The fact that Nani trolled GSL and the whole SC2 community and that he has this much support for doing it is sad. I'm not talking about sympathizers that forgive him. Sure, we all deserve a second, or third chance. The fact that people don't see what's the problem and think it was a good move makes us look really bad. Definitely a step back for the foreigner community.
Aren't you overreacting.. A lot? Being pissed and purposely losing a game has almost 0 effect on esports as a whole. And Naniwa did 0 trolling. Do you even know what trolling is?
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"Forced to play a game that didn't matter?" Ironically, Naniwa made that game important. He was the one that created the hype. Regardless, of record he owed it to his fans and SC2 to play that game. Instead--he punked out.
"Forced to play a game that didn't matter?"
Before esports, there was sports. As a professional athlete they have to play games that are meanless. This weekend about 13 NFL teams are going to play meanless games. They are out of the playoffs, but they are expected to show up and play... Because it's their job.
I think it only makes sense the GSL recinds its invite. We saw what Nani at the last invitation. How much fault is his? 100%. The format only breaks when someone doesn't play with honor or respect for the game. If we must make a rule that people must attempt to win, congrats to Nani for championing that rule through. Is that really what he wants his legacy to be?
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I like what MC has to say.
He looks up to White Ra. ^__^
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i see how the culture is way different in korea...
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That's like an NBA team out of the playoffs throwing games.
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I love this hate swell.
It develops a story.
They'll never forget!
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many geniouses in hystory have been excentric personalities.
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On December 15 2011 17:53 ypslala wrote:
many geniouses in hystory have been excentric personalities.
I laughed hard at this post
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On December 15 2011 08:42 Smatin wrote:
Didn't Nestea crisize Huk in one of the tournaments for playing too serious on a game that meant nothing? This is all garbage.
I agree, seems like Koreans will take any chance they get to attack a foreigner.
I disagree with the whole situation because GOMTV is revoking his code S spot when he didn't even break any of the rules.
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Wow Korean progamers must be real douchebags.
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On December 13 2011 21:30 Waxangel wrote:
@IM_NesTea_: I was infuriated about my mindless play, but when I collected myself I found my opponent doing something even more out of his mind.
@oGsMC: I was really lost for words after watching today's game. Does he even know what the word "pro" is? My role model for professionalism is White-Ra. He really loves his fans, and doesn't give up his games until the end, and he's very mannered towards everyone. Does anyone dislike White-Ra?
I hope Naniwa can look at White-Ra and change his mentality. I don't think it's right to do that, not considering your opponent at all. I wish he'd think about how he would have felt if I had gone 3-0 and confirmed #1 in my group, and he was 0-3, and I thought that since I'm 1st place nothing matters and just GG'd out of my game against him.
Well, if you there's no big deal because there's no money on the the line, then I can't say anything to that, you're just not a pro. After seeing Naniwa, I thought HerO was all the more awesome for being so upset about losing his games yesterday.
@FXOChoya: [Can't believe] that kind of bastard is a pro-gamer.
LOLOLOL all I can I do is laugh
@hirai21(IM Head coach): The heck, again?
@sc2immvp: WTF -_- (in English)
@SC2MVP (Team MVP official twitter): What a relief that Complexity transferred Naniwa to Quantic. We almost had to have that kind of player stay in our house for longer. The most disappointing game as an SC2 fan.
What's the most angering is that Nestea practiced hard into the night to practice yesterday, even though it was his birthday.
@TSLJYP: LOLOLOLOLOL x 140 characters
@MVPKeeN: LOLOLOLOLOLOL x Slightly fewer characters
@MVPGuineapig: There's so many people who can't compete in leagues even if they want to.. are you mocking them?
@MKPS2: I wonder what all the gamers who wanted to be in that position thought... I really wanted it too...
Updating if there's anything interesting :o.
Post on /r/starcraft for free Karma :D
yes foreigners actually DO have personalities. nice talent toi have xD
i hope some koreans take an example and speak up if they have to play meaningless games - otherwise GOM will never get their asses together and make good formats.
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On December 15 2011 20:59 Sn0wM4 wrote:
Wow Korean progamers must be real douchebags.
exactly what i thought. no good light on them. but this were just a few and some are known for being "talky" (MC) but FXO.Choya really made me sad... you can expect some hate if you ever get outside of korea.
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Most of you are missing the point entirely. I can assure you that GOM would have no problems with a 7 probe rush so long as it is done to a high level and micro'd with at least some skill.
Instead Naniwa purposely leaves his probes to be surrounded AND WAS PLAYING WITH ONE HAND. That is clear disrespect to GOM. Me personally, i dont care what happens to Naniwa or GOM but please keep in mind that his actions were not "meaningless"; the game he played was a slap in the face to GOM. Whether or not he should have played the game at all is another story.
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Choya should be punished at least as hard as Nani... Insulting other players openly is on a whole different level than worker rushing IMO.
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Love hearing the pros thoughts... didnt know that MC love white ra so much
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I think a lot of this comes from korean pro-gamers being really irritated with the foreign GSL seeds, which I can understand seeing as how brutal it is to qualify for Code A/S. But there's a lot of really disrespectful things said in these twitters. I actually think that the MVP team twitter was the worst. As a team, they should keep a much larger distance.
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On December 13 2011 21:30 Waxangel wrote:
@FXOChoya: [Can't believe] that kind of bastard is a pro-gamer
Pretty much...
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FXOChoya is one of the most dominant protoss players, starting off great by beating oGsMC. Who are you to condescend him.
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Blowing things way out of proportion
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Korean progamer and their surrounding seem to be really antisocial, from all what i have been seeing... Making particular dumb remarks, when a player decided to lose without giving an exhausting show. Going that far and calling him even "bastard".
I can't help it, despite that korean pros are admired in this site like no one else, i really find them unlikeable.
What is wrong with the korean culture? Losing honor by giving up? Why are they all trying to transfer their own shame in life to a foreign player (even though he is not really likeable as well). Though they are a small samplesize that behaviour really fits into other things i have seen from korean people.
I don't get their ethics, nor their lifestyle or their word "honor".
Ill stick to the american way of life, the joy of life without too much shame and deceptive wrong honor and guilt.
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On December 26 2011 04:10 W.O.L.F.Y. wrote:
Korean progamer and their surrounding seem to be really antisocial, from all what i have been seeing... Making particular dumb remarks, when a player decided to lose without giving an exhausting show. Going that far and calling him even "bastard".
I can't help it, despite that korean pros are admired in this site like no one else, i really find them unlikeable.
What is wrong with the korean culture? Losing honor by giving up? Why are they all trying to transfer their own shame in life to a foreign player (even though he is not really likeable as well). Though they are a small samplesize that behaviour really fits into other things i have seen from korean people.
I don't get their ethics, nor their lifestyle or their word "honor".
Ill stick to the american way of life, the joy of life without too much shame and deceptive wrong honor and guilt.
Give them some respect. SC would be nothing without the pioneers like Boxer, Reach, Nada, or Yellow, and the many others out there. Naniwa can be pissed off. That's absolutely fine and great. He just didn't have to pout, put one hand on his face, and move his probes to the other player's base. Sometimes I wonder if anyone understands the words "courteous" or "polite" or "class" anymore.
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Naniwa doesnt have to "fake" it if he truly feels that winning is important. Give your 100% on your every single game if you are really passionate about playing starcraft. should I call out Naniwa for not being motivated 100% if money or prize is not on the line? is he some sort of mercenary who plays just for money and titles? no love for the game? no regard for the fans? I feel sympathetic to Naniwa because I know he is just a kid, but some of those comments before me are ridiculous. if you are a professional player, act like it. this is going to be a good growing experience for him.
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On December 16 2011 23:51 diehilde wrote:
Choya should be punished at least as hard as Nani... Insulting other players openly is on a whole different level than worker rushing IMO.
BUT IDRA WOULD BE BANNED FROM ALMOST EVERY TOURNAMENT XD
On December 26 2011 04:10 W.O.L.F.Y. wrote:
Korean progamer and their surrounding seem to be really antisocial, from all what i have been seeing... Making particular dumb remarks, when a player decided to lose without giving an exhausting show. Going that far and calling him even "bastard".
I can't help it, despite that korean pros are admired in this site like no one else, i really find them unlikeable.
What is wrong with the korean culture? Losing honor by giving up? Why are they all trying to transfer their own shame in life to a foreign player (even though he is not really likeable as well). Though they are a small samplesize that behaviour really fits into other things i have seen from korean people.
I don't get their ethics, nor their lifestyle or their word "honor".
Ill stick to the american way of life, the joy of life without too much shame and deceptive wrong honor and guilt.
you recognize its a different culture with different values but also call them antisocial and imply there are some bad things you have seen of koreans in general -.- they have different values and GSL is their house- when in rome, do as the romans...
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You foreigners are in no position to be attacking Korea's response to Naniwa's actions.
The Korean pros' tweets and GomTV's decision to drop their consideration of giving Naniwa a free code s spot (which he does not officially deserve) are understandable.
The Korean pros and GomTV's actions are not "unprofessional." I am not aware that the term "professional" encompasses the act of silently accepting the behavior of someone who is openly mocking and disrespecting you, your fans, Korean sc2 viewers, and the cultural values of your country on home turf (whether intentional or not). There was no need for Naniwa to rest his chin on one hand, only to support the claim that he was being intentionally disrespect (of which we will never know the truth).
Do not think that Western culture is the norm. Western culture is just that - Western culture; hence Korea has no obligation to conform to Western cultural standards when approaching issues such as this. You foreigners' lack of respect for Korean culture is one reason the Korean sc2 community is compelled to show a corresponding lack of respect towards Naniwa's actions.
Waxangel, what is your intention of writing a blog showing a selective and possibly skewed partition of Korean pros' views towards Naniwa's actions? If you were intelligent enough, you would have foreseen all the shitstorm you would have caused by feeding the foreigner-bias contained within trolls. Or perhaps this was your purpose.
And finally, to those who have claimed to boycott the Korean starcraft scene as a result of this incident: please, i beg of you. Don't go back on your words. The sc2 scene as a whole is better off without close-minded people like you. Adieu.
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You South Koreans really have no idea how deep this goes, do you? Let me enlighten you.
Naniwa and the other Progamers aren't there just to try to win GSL. They're actually moles planted by the Bureau of Western Culture Propaganda to undermine South Korean culture. It's their job to live in your team houses, sabotage East-West relations, and generally wage a silent culture war against South Korea. Naniwa's action is only the first of many to come.
Meanwhile, let's turn the actions of a single Swedish kid into a multi-paged debate on Eastern Culture vs Western Culture. If the assassination of a single Archduke can lead to World War I, I'm sure we can at least try to match that by martyring Naniwa.
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EPT
