EPTBoys swimming as girls - Page 2
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
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peekn
United States1152 Posts
On November 20 2011 13:10 Fenrax wrote: lol There is a reason why this is only practiced in Massachusetts: Common sense. Also these boys are a bunch of sissys. "Competing" with girls in a sport that requires muscle power? Probably even proud when they won. Yeah you would think that they would have some guilt or something... I know that I would. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
Who knew this would happen. As I see it, there's just no logic in allowing boys to swim as girls. That's how I put it in the title of the thread, and I know that might be a bit provocative, but I think it's true. It's called a "girls'" swim team, and they're letting certain boys join it. It's not as if the word "girls" is just a meaningless name, it has clear relevance. Most boys can't compete in these events. Can't, as in not allowed. The only boys who can compete 'as girls' are the ones who happen to reside within a school district that has a swim team for the girls and none for the boys. State law mandates this in the name of "equal opportunity", but really it's anything but. Yeah it's really not fair when you think gender equality means sticking it to the Patriarchy but other people think gender equality means gender equality. | ||
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-swordguy
United States560 Posts
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Terrix
Germany305 Posts
On November 20 2011 13:09 eLe.Long wrote: So... Girls can join boys teams, but boys can't join girl's teams? So much for equality, eh? As far as I'm concerned yes, and it is still equal. A boy joining a girls team is him being up a level. But a girl joining a boys team is her having to fight up a level. It's totally equal to make somebody fight down a level but not up? I don't agree. I agree with qrs, this shouldn't be allowed, even if "equal rights" comes into question. Men and Women are physically different and you don't see professional Men's tennis players playing against Women, it just isn't fair. | ||
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On November 20 2011 13:09 eLe.Long wrote: So... Girls can join boys teams, but boys can't join girl's teams? So much for equality, eh? You guys are effing stupid. Of course it goes only one way and not the other when it comes to competition. Girls are at a strict disadvantage in muscle and speed sports against boys and if a girl can compete despite that disadvantage then why not let her participate. | ||
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cmen15
United States1519 Posts
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ScytheMan01
United States114 Posts
On November 20 2011 13:02 Kuja wrote: Serious question, as a girl, are you allowed to compete in Bikinis? and Speedos for guys? Speedo yes, bikini not sure, probably not | ||
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Alay
United States660 Posts
On November 20 2011 11:35 qrs wrote: ^I don't agree. It makes no sense for boys to compete against girls--if it did, they should be allowed to do that whether or not there's a swimming program for them. As for your "weight limitation" idea, come on. If weight were an important factor in swimming, don't you think that the sport would already have weight limitations, just like combat sports do? The point is that boys are stronger than girls, not that they're heavier. That's why they shouldn't be allowed to compete as 'girls'. If that means that some boys don't get a chance to swim in their school, too bad. My high school didn't have a swimming program either. We lived. I don't mind girls competing in boys divisions, because that's like 'fighting up' a weight class, but letting boys compete in girls divisions is like 'fighting down' a weight class and that's not fair. I don't like your "tough shit, don't swim" outlook. If that was a reasonable conclusion in this scenario, then you're only hurting someones potential to do something that could very well be incredibly important to them--and it's not an ideology that sits well if taken away from something like swimming and put into other aspects ("Though shit, you don't get an education.. I didn't have one growin up on the farm!") Either the school needs to get together with each other and form a boys swim team, or they need to add classifications for sorting. Weight limits are a good starting point--I'm fairly certain that in equal weight (assuming we're talking about fit people here, not fat-weighted) both genders have relative strength equality. If not sufficient, I'm sure some other form of classification would work out to keep the sport unisexed. Regardless, these boys want to swim, just like those girls from the previous thread want to wrestle. They should be allowed to, and if necessary be placed on opposite-sex teams due to lack of better arrangements. I'm more apt for a unisex athletic world though. Further, sex divisions in sports have the problem of thinking too far in a binary. There's a massive range of differences between individuals in each sex. There's some men who are smaller built, have less natural muscle, etc, and there are some women who are built like tanks. Then you have to consider transgendered--do we go by gender, or anatomical sex? If the prior, you end up in situations where a possible unfair advantage could occur (though realistically it's a lot smaller of a possible advantage.) If the later, you end up screwing a lot of people into non-competitive situations and forcing them out of sports. Why not bring everyone together, and have a more realistic way of sorting them out. | ||
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
On November 20 2011 13:05 Bonkarooni wrote: a) Where do you see sexism in my words? In the assumption that boys are stronger than girls? That's just biology.Despite your sexism, you may of had an argument here if the main purpose of high school sports was to win/lose. Denying these young man a chance to do what they love and grow as a person seems more unfair then the slight edge they get from being men in a swimming competition/denying them a chance at a college scholarship, which may be the only way they can pay for college. b) If sports weren't about winning and losing then they wouldn't be competitive in the first place. You have a point about scholarships and such, so maybe there should be some thought put into allowing the boys to display their abilities in other ways. A girl quoted in the article made some suggestions: "It infuriates me that they can’t combine two schools’ boys to create one team or have them compete in separate heats". Also from the article: "Some schools in the winter offer coed swimming, where boys and girls compete side-by-side in the dual meets and then separately in the postseason." | ||
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rabidch
United States20287 Posts
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
Competition is competition. Trust me, people care. And I'm saying that those boys shouldn't be allowed to swim on the girls' team. If that means that they can't swim for the school at all, because there isn't a boys team, well that's too bad, but it's no worse than not being able to swim because your school doesn't have any swim team. Which, for instance, my high school didn't. It's really not as tragic as you're making it out to be. Put it differently, suppose that for whatever reason there was a swimming program in a middle school but not the associated high school. Would you say that high schoolers should be able to swim against middle schoolers because of "fairness"? That's a pretty backwards way to look at it, imo. Remember, I'm not saying that they shouldn't be able to use the pool. Just that they shouldn't be able to compete against girls in state-sanctioned competition. To me that seems like common sense. The reason there aren't teams is not enough money. What you're saying is similar to the arguments that used to be used against having girls' teams or non-football/baseball/basketball/wrestling teams. You guys are effing stupid. Of course it goes only one way and not the other when it comes to competition. Girls are at a strict disadvantage in muscle and speed sports against boys and if a girl can compete despite that disadvantage that why not let her participate. So the boys get nothing because they're boys. Makes sense. Gender equality. | ||
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peekn
United States1152 Posts
People in this thread don't understand human anatomy or anything about sexes. Sports which require pure strength, endurance, dexterity, and anything else physical are separated for a reason. The male body is stronger in every way that a female's it's pure and simple. Those of you who are saying that women can compete in men's competition so why shouldn't a man be able to compete in women's competition are really not realizing that genders are separated for a reason. It's not discrimination it's fairness. | ||
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ampson
United States2355 Posts
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ThaZenith
Canada3116 Posts
The sexes are physically different, and thus why competitively they're usually separated in sports. There's nothing wrong with that fact, I don't know why people are always trying to force equality when we fundamentally aren't. And I'd probably be pretty pissed if, hypothetically, my daughter was being beaten in a girls competition by boys. Just kinda stupid. They can swim on the team, practice, compete with other guys, etc. But imagining that a guy could be the champion of the girls swim meet or w/e is mind-boggling. | ||
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Luepert
United States1933 Posts
It is fair in that if the feminists force us to ignore obvious physical differences and allow girls to compete in guys sports, that we will overlook them again if it works to the guys favor. Not letting them play would be unfair because of the exact equality argument feminists used to get girls on boys wrestling teams.And if they don't let them play they are breaking their own system so that it ONLY helps girls. And that my friend, is actually sexist. | ||
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ffadicted
United States3545 Posts
I myself think it's fine, if there's no guys teams they should definitely be able to practice and compete with the girl's team, doesn't make sense why they would lose the right to compete in the sport they love just because of their sex. | ||
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TiTanIum_
Brazil1335 Posts
On November 20 2011 13:02 Syth wrote: So you're saying those boys shouldn't be allowed to swim then? Seriously, it's school swimming. Who actually cares if boys are competing with girls. | ||
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llKenZyll
United States853 Posts
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Jonoman92
United States9101 Posts
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