EPTSchool sports don't exist in Sweden so I have no idea how this works.
Boys swimming as girls - Page 5
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Blondinbengt
Sweden578 Posts
School sports don't exist in Sweden so I have no idea how this works. | ||
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Slow Motion
United States6960 Posts
There are so many examples in sports of rules designed to separate individuals of different strengths. Because it's not all about determining who the strongest person is in the world, but about entertainment and exercise. How entertaining is it to just see heavyweights compete because the smaller fighters simply cannot compete? Imagine a world with no Pacquiao, GSP, Mayweather, etc. It's not very entertaining if we didn't have all these group separations, and it only serves to contract the popularity of the sport instead of expanding it.. If one group is weaker, then rules that restrict the competition to that group allow us to see them compete. Without them they have no chance to see what it's like in compete in a major tournament and win first place. | ||
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Fishgle
United States2174 Posts
It's totally fine that they're in the girl's swim team. But does that mean that when they go to Uni they'll still be in the Girl's team? no. nor would they compete as girls at any other event, granted there be enough males. Title 9 allows them to compete together, it does not say they compete equally, nor should they, as males and females have distinct physical differentia specifica which disallows direct comparison in physical competition. it's not like football where they're competing against each other anyway, since the only thing they're competing against is the clock. Should be quite simple to have their times approved for Nationals separately as a "1 man boys swim team" using the girl's competitions as officially recorded times. | ||
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
On November 20 2011 14:25 qrs wrote: By the same token, why not let the boys swim by themselves in the pool and see how their time matches up, according to your argument? Because for boys winning means money for their athletics department and perhaps acquiring a proper male swim team? You're seriously stupid if you think the boys arent embarrassed about the situation and arent overcoming great emotional turmoil for the sport they love. If you have beef with it make it political, and question why there isnt funding in the first place. | ||
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Synwave
United States2803 Posts
Consider this, I often raced in a pool with someone well over 6 foot and close to 18 years of age when I was 16 and in the same race was a freshman kid that was lucky to weigh as much as me let alone the fully developed senior. Yet none of us cared, it wasn't about that. We weren't racing against each other, we were racing to best our own personal times. The 'race' if you want to call it that is more for the spectators or people that just want to feel competitive while they try to do their best. Please consider this when you talk about boys beating girls in races and whether its fair. This isn't the same as point driven team sports. This is an individually driven timed sport. | ||
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TALegion
United States1187 Posts
On November 20 2011 13:02 Kuja wrote: Serious question, as a girl, are you allowed to compete in Bikinis? and Speedos for guys? You can wear whatever you want, I'm pretty sure, but it'd be dumb to do so. The official gear lessens drag immensley. Where I'm from, it's required that you get/wear one of the shark-skin suits because they're so game breaking | ||
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Joedaddy
United States1948 Posts
Hypocrisy go. | ||
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Brett
Australia3820 Posts
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hytonight
303 Posts
On November 20 2011 13:10 Neb1000 wrote: I came here expecting guys dressed as girls swimming. so did i....and i thought the girl on the right was really a guy first time i saw her. i am a terrible person | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
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Thetan
240 Posts
On November 20 2011 14:50 Synwave wrote: As someone who competitively swam nearly all my childhood and teenage life I can tell you for certain that swimming is about beating your own previous best time and progressing against yourself to be better and faster. It is a timed sport, not a team sport. The falsities raised by people that have never participated in timed sports are mainly due to thinking that because a bunch of people are racing it must be about who comes in first. Yes, its nice to have a first place medal but for those actually dedicated to timed sports its far more important to have a faster time than to have a certain 'place' in an arbitrary race. Consider this, I often raced in a pool with someone well over 6 foot and close to 18 years of age when I was 16 and in the same race was a freshman kid that was lucky to weigh as much as me let alone the fully developed senior. Yet none of us cared, it wasn't about that. We weren't racing against each other, we were racing to best our own personal times. The 'race' if you want to call it that is more for the spectators or people that just want to feel competitive while they try to do their best. Please consider this when you talk about boys beating girls in races and whether its fair. This isn't the same as point driven team sports. This is an individually driven timed sport. But in most dual meets between schools, each team (from my experience) gets points based on how well their swimmers perform. So, while each event is individualized, each swimmer is still trying to place as high as possible to score points for their team. In meets like these, it's perfectly reasonable for individuals to think of the team first (swimming in a hated event for the good of the team, not trying as hard in an event you've clearly won in order to do better in a more competitive event) in order to maximize the points the team scores, in order to win the meet. | ||
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lagmaster
United States374 Posts
There has been a great level of disparity between the genders and the hope is that we are moving towards a time when people of different genders will be treated with equal respect and garnish equal freedoms. Men have competed in sporting events much longer than women and with many sporting events there is a negative stigmata that comes with a female who competes. Separating the sports by gender was a great method (in my opinion) to generate a greater interest in sports for women. Women who may have been too intimidated by social pressures before were now praised in a very healthy encouraging environment. I think that separating the leagues by gender is a great way to bring women into male dominated sports or to bring men into female dominated sports. But I think that keeping these sports separate is inherently sexist. It draws a strong distinction between men and women and loudly exclaims "No! Men and Women can't compete at the same level!" That is clearly sexist. I would equate this with trying to create a league for different ethnicities. Well there are more successful black basketball players so we should make a separate league based on ethnicity. I can understand creating different leagues in order to keep people interested. But every league, in every sport, should be open to any player who is good enough, regardless of race, creed, gender, sexual orientation etc. Forbidding players to participate in a league based on anything aside from skill is discriminatory. | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
As for the competing part, at first I got caught up in the inherent unfairness. But then I thought, it's not like they'd allow the boys to have their records engraved in history. And the second place girl could just astericks her placement in a resume, saying that she lost to a boy. So no big deal. | ||
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xAPOCALYPSEx
1418 Posts
On November 20 2011 13:53 Fenrax wrote: Yes. This is not like in the Wrestling example where the girl came to a boys competion and deliberately searched a bigger challenge. In the Wrestling case the guy just discriminated the girl by not competing against her. In this swimming thing these boys just highjack a girl's competition. That is absolutely pathetic. You do realize that there is no boys swim team right? So a kid that joins the girls swim team because there isn't a boys swim team is pathetic? lol It may not be fair but you are villanizing the boys for absolutely no reason | ||
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Gummy
United States2180 Posts
The taller, stronger swimmer, skill and conditioning equal, will always win the race. If there's no boys team, I think it would be fair to have them compete at events under the flag of another team, or "unattached." They can still practice with the girls no problem. | ||
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Slow Motion
United States6960 Posts
On November 20 2011 15:41 igotmyown wrote: Boys should definitely be allowed to swim and practice. As for the competing part, at first I got caught up in the inherent unfairness. But then I thought, it's not like they'd allow the boys to have their records engraved in history. And the second place girl could just astericks her placement in a resume, saying that she lost to a boy. So no big deal. Hahaha that would be a hilarious resume. | ||
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b0ngt0ss
259 Posts
On November 20 2011 13:10 Neb1000 wrote: I came here expecting guys dressed as girls swimming. same.............and left disappointed | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
i understand that they have no other choice (no men's team), but still . . . maybe they should consider another sport. | ||
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Runnin
208 Posts
On November 20 2011 13:16 peekn wrote: Jesus People in this thread don't understand human anatomy or anything about sexes. Sports which require pure strength, endurance, dexterity, and anything else physical are separated for a reason. The male body is stronger in every way that a female's it's pure and simple. Those of you who are saying that women can compete in men's competition so why shouldn't a man be able to compete in women's competition are really not realizing that genders are separated for a reason. It's not discrimination it's fairness. This. How anyone can not understand the physical difference between men and women is beyond me - they are important in all sports but even more so in purely physical sports like running and swimming. | ||
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EnderSword
Canada669 Posts
There's a similar case recently of a boy joining a Girl's field hockey team, and its actually starting to become a systematic issue. A couple years ago some boy in Pennsylvania joined the girl's field hockey team and just face-rolled everyone to win the State Championship. Since field hockey is traditionally only offered as a girl's team, it means any boys can join, so after a couple publicized incidents like this guy, a lot of teams are now having male Ice Hockey players added to the rosters, and essentially putting the female athletes in the backseat on their own team. People are competitive, and they do things required to win. Allowing this sort of male entry into female competitions simply forces the females who it is meant for into a secondary role, and that's not what we should be doing. In sports we have divisions for everything. Age groups, Gender groups, Skill levels... The logic behind letting girls into male sports is "If she's good enough, who's it going to hurt?" That logic simply does not apply in the reverse situation, and the Title 9 laws should not work in reverse. | ||
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