EPTBoys swimming as girls - Page 6
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On November 20 2011 16:06 EnderSword wrote: There's a similar case recently of a boy joining a Girl's field hockey team, and its actually starting to become a systematic issue. A couple years ago some boy in Pennsylvania joined the girl's field hockey team and just face-rolled everyone to win the State Championship. Since field hockey is traditionally only offered as a girl's team, it means any boys can join, so after a couple publicized incidents like this guy, a lot of teams are now having male Ice Hockey players added to the rosters, and essentially putting the female athletes in the backseat on their own team. People are competitive, and they do things required to win. Allowing this sort of male entry into female competitions simply forces the females who it is meant for into a secondary role, and that's not what we should be doing. In sports we have divisions for everything. Age groups, Gender groups, Skill levels... The logic behind letting girls into male sports is "If she's good enough, who's it going to hurt?" That logic simply does not apply in the reverse situation, and the Title 9 laws should not work in reverse. i understand what you mean, but if you treat men differently from women in any respect then Title 9 is violated. you cant have different rules for men and women. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
These boys get ridiculed for swimming on a girls team. They don't do it for easy rewards. They do it for fun. That said I think only girls should be allowed to win fastest swimmer titles. If a boy does well enough he should compete at the boys swim finals. I can see boys using their wins on their college applications without saying they were competing with a natural advantage otherwise. | ||
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Slow Motion
United States6960 Posts
On November 20 2011 16:09 obesechicken13 wrote: I went to a high school in massachusetts, and if I'd known it was possible to do swim before I joined the math team I might have wanted to do it. These boys get ridiculed for swimming on a girls team. They don't do it for easy rewards. They do it for fun. That said I think only girls should be allowed to win fastest swimmer titles. If a boy does well enough he should compete at the boys swim finals. I can see boys using their wins on their college applications without saying they were competing with a natural advantage otherwise. Yeah I don't think anyone is saying the boys shouldn't be allowed to train and swim with the girls. It's actual competitions we're debating about. | ||
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Gnaix
United States438 Posts
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EnderSword
Canada669 Posts
On November 20 2011 16:08 dAPhREAk wrote: i understand what you mean, but if you treat men differently from women in any respect then Title 9 is violated. you cant have different rules for men and women. Then Violate Title 9 You most certainly Can have different rules for men and women, most sports and many laws certainly do. Title 9 isn't there to 'Stop Sexism' It was made to Let girls on Boy's teams when there was no girls team. If it allows boys on girl's teams...it's only because someone wasn't thinking or they wrote the law wrong. Sometimes a law doesn't make sense and you've got to fix it. That's the case here. | ||
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Thingdo
United States186 Posts
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EnderSword
Canada669 Posts
On November 20 2011 16:23 Thingdo wrote: Doesn't bother me on a high school level. If this were the Olympics or something I could see people being upset. Then again, I've never really taken any high school sports very seriously, so my opinion might be somewhat slanted. Student-Athletes can get full ride scholarships for High School performance, and in some sports, end up with multi-million dollar contracts right out of high school. Michael Phelps had just graduated High School 3 months he won 6 gold medals in Athens. So it can be pretty serious business. | ||
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Whyzguy
Canada263 Posts
Now imagine Boxer to... I don't even know what it's called. There's your answer. | ||
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Ryder.
1117 Posts
On November 20 2011 13:09 eLe.Long wrote: So... Girls can join boys teams, but boys can't join girl's teams? So much for equality, eh? Whilst I think that if it's between guys swimming on a girls team or not swimming at all they should be allowed to swim on the girls team, this is a pretty stupid comment lol these rules aren't pointless and arbitrary, it is because in physical activities guys tend to have an inherent advantage just by being a male. It doesn't matter in this case since it's just school swimming, but women wouldn't win jack shit in sports (apart from maybe like gymnastics and a few exceptions) if they had to compete with guys. Maybe think before saying something like this. | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
You can't treat them both the exact same in every fucking situation. | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
i hope people realize that gender does make a difference in this case; i don't remember the specific pr's but at my school the boys pr's were vastly superior to the girl's and i'm pretty sure this is the case in any school. On November 20 2011 16:40 Whyzguy wrote: Tossgirl to pro-team. mmm.... meh sure I guess. Now imagine Boxer to... I don't even know what it's called. There's your answer. in games there is no advantage to whether or not you are male or female. in actual sports... there clearly is. On November 20 2011 17:10 dUTtrOACh wrote: I'm curious if they send the shit male swimmers to the girls' team after tryouts, or if they just say: "Sorry, list's full. But the girls' swim team has an opening." If they're sending the lower portion of the male swimmers, I don't think gender equality is even observed in this case. It's just an elaborate diss. that would be just silly "The New York Times ran a pair of articles this weekend about high school girls swim teams in Massachusetts. By state law, Massachusetts public high schools have to provide equal access to sports for both sexes. That means, among other things, that if a school has a girls swim team but no boys swim team (due to insufficient funding/interest), then they have to let boys swim on the girls team. They compete with the girls in intramural competition up to the state level." | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
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Befree
695 Posts
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kdgns
United States2427 Posts
On November 20 2011 17:10 dUTtrOACh wrote: I'm curious if they send the shit male swimmers to the girls' team after tryouts, or if they just say: "Sorry, list's full. But the girls' swim team has an opening." If they're sending the lower portion of the male swimmers, I don't think gender equality is even observed in this case. It's just an elaborate diss. The article clearly states that this can only happen if a boy's team does not exist | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
On November 20 2011 17:14 Befree wrote: If fair competition were the priority, perhaps this would be a problem. But I imagine the priority is more that the kids be able to enjoy themselves, make friends, and be healthy. I don't see a reason to place competitiveness above that. I can guarantee you that a lot of these athletes are extremely competitive, and don't give a shit about priority. When I did XC/Track in high school, I appreciated the sport and what it did for me, but I cared a lot more about my performance, my placement, beating people on the course and beating people on my team. Looking back it does seem a little foolhardy to care so much about high school sports, but I really did care, and so did a lot of my teammates (male and female). I know that they would have been raging if the girls would compete with the guys. The difference between placing 1st or 7th is actually a big deal as an athlete. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On November 20 2011 13:02 Syth wrote: So you're saying those boys shouldn't be allowed to swim then? Seriously, it's school swimming. Who actually cares if boys are competing with girls. That's not what he was saying. Boys should have a means to compete that doesn't make it unfair for the girls teams. | ||
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Zurles
United Kingdom1659 Posts
On November 20 2011 13:06 KingAce wrote: I thought girls were better swimmers, so it wouldn't matter? I guess I was wrong. that's hilarious. | ||
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arbitrageur
Australia1202 Posts
You can't see a reason that he should be allowed? Do you realize that your conception of fairness is there because Tit-for-Tat with forgiveness, or Pavlov, is a close to optimal solution to prisoner's dilemma? Natural selection has built into you a repulsion against anything that seems to be unfair as it was an optimal social approach for all your ancestors. It doesn't mean your position is reasoned. Your brain is hugely biased to retract from what seems to be unfair, and you engage in after-the-fact rationalization (what evolutionary psychologists call your brain's lawyer) to support your gut feeling. | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
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