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Many of my blogs are random, but I actually have put quite a bit more thought and consideration into this one. This is something I have thought about since my first semester in college. I would like some serious insight if anyone has some to offer.
First of all, I am not one of those people who posts in every college related thread-- you really don't need to go to college unless you are doing something very specific, go and get a job, etc.etc. I believe most people benefit from going to college, even if it just helps them transition into adulthood. I believe there is a certain level of debt which is acceptable to take out, but I wouldn't encourage someone to go somewhere they couldn't pay off within a few years after graduation.
My college situation is this-- I am a junior at the University of Pennsylvania with a scholarship that pays for my tuition, housing, health insurance, and food for the school year. This past year some of the financial aid was cut, but that was a cut pretty much everyone experienced because of reduced federal aid and the economy.
I am studying art because I like it. I currently have almost 5 years of experience working in tech support. I have a year of managerial experience-- hiring, firing, making decisions about staffing and hours, etc. I have another year of hospitality and event planning experience, as well as a good amount of general office experience. I have worked with a lot of databases, done a good deal of budgeting, and have a very thorough understanding of the customer service industry on a very involved level. If one of the customers wakes up at 3 am and needs some fucking toilet paper, then I go buy it for them kind of customer service.
So why did I decide to go to college? I wanted to get away from my family. I have a poisonous, abusive home, and I wanted to be as far from them as possible. I moved about 2500 miles across the country, and it worked. I am a happier person for it, and don't have to get told I'm fat, and a bad person, and how ashamed my parents are to have me for a child every day.
I came to Penn because I liked the campus. I like the urban location with the historic beauty and big trees. It's quite different from the Midwest where I spent most of my life. I also came here because it seemed diverse in people, and diverse in the many opportunities I could have. I discovered since then that it's not so diverse as I thought it was, but it is still a very good school. I also came because of the money-- my parents are not giving me an ounce of support.
This is all well and good, but I am quite unhappy here. I work two jobs and go to school full time. Every morning I get up at 8. I am at work or class by 9. I am finished around 10 at night. I go to bed at midnight so I can get enough sleep. I grab food in my 10 minutes breaks between classes, and I cram homework into that hour or two before bed. Sundays I work 10 until 9. Saturdays are free, but not really... with so little time during the week to do work they are not free at all.
I am burnt out. After moving 14 times before my sophomore year of high school, and then starting work my junior year of high school, and spending the last two years of high school working my ass off to pay for most of my expenses, as well as studying on my own for AP tests since my school had jack shit of a program... I came to college exhausted. There was no break. In college I got a job, I took as many classes as possible, and the same thing happened. Even on 'breaks' I had papers and projects that were assigned to be done over the break since I would obviously be rollinggggg in time. I had a teacher assign an end of the semester paper to be submitted on January 8th, so I was working on the damn thing over Christmas. wtf. During the summer time I work my ass off. This past summer I had 60 hour weeks, where I worked an overnight into a dayshift into a 6 hour break before another overnight. I was on 24-7 call. It was fucking exhausting. And I transitioned from that straight back into my current schedule.
I can work hard. I can work 16 hours straight if need be. But at the end of the day, I want to go home and rest and not have my work follow me. I need time to recuperate. It's pretty much impossible for me to have any of that right now.
I have to work-- I need the money to pay my medical bills, and for new glasses, and a plane ticket to stay with a friend over Christmas. I have to buy art supplies and books each semester. Occasionally I need a new pair of jeans or some new t-shirts. I can't enroll part time or I lose financial aid-- and then I really can't afford school.
All of this adds up to: there better be a damn good reason for being so miserable for the next two years. In my mind there's actually no good reason for me to be doing this.
Do I need it to get a job? No. If it's an art job, no amount of school will make you good at art. People will hire you based off what you can do. If I want some other job-- an art degree isn't particularly helpful, but I have a lot of work experience.
Do I want a high paying job? No. I want an apartment and a cat, or a dog. I want to be able to go camping in state parks in the summer time, and go to a nearby park for walks. I want to go to my local library frequently, and draw and cook, and game. This is not an expensive kind of life. I know how to do without, and as long as I can afford food and a place to live, I'm pretty set.
Are there other benefits I'm receiving at college? Not really. I don't need a guided transition period into adulthood. I am adult. I am not getting any of that college social experience that gets discussed in nostalgic fondness every time I mention I'm a college student. Quite frankly it doesn't appeal to me even if I had the time.
I'm already half way through... and that's not actually a reason to continue something at all.
I have an opportunity to go to a good school with debt. Possibly a good reason but ONLY if there is a point later on in my life where I seriously need to have graduated from here to accomplish something. Can't actually say if that will ever happen.
There are times in your life when you do hard things. If you do them for a good reason, that's great-- you have strength of character. If you do them for a bad reason, you're just fucking stupid.
I am thinking about this very hard because I won't get this opportunity again. I am looking for a good reason-- a real, long term tangible benefit-- for me to be so unhappy for the next two years. I don't believe any portion of your life is small enough to be wasted on choices that don't bring you happiness now or later.
I am wondering about what I should pursue if I decide to leave school. I would like to ask my current boss if I can get a full time, salaried position, or if she can help me get something similar somewhere else. I'm wondering if I should find out about taking a year off to get my head together, and come up with a plan to throw all my energy into improving at one thing. (I am wondering about how to get the money for that, lol.)
Ultimately I have to make the decision for myself, but I am looking for insight about it, particularly from anyone who dropped out of college, took a year off at some point, or didn't go to school.
 
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If you've gone through 3 years so far I would recommend just trying at all costs to finish.
I think in the long run having that degree will be reallllly helpful (depending on what you ultimately really want to do in life of course)
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I dropped out of college with only a semester left due to burnout. I worked & took some side classes that interested me at other schools and a year and half later I came back and finished my degree (at the cost of much added debt).
All I can say is, if you're not happy in school you won't learn and it becomes a waste of time. But it isn't until you've left without a degree that you realize just how much a degree can mean to you in terms of resume confidence, personal accomplishment, etc. There are certain intellectual experiences that I think you can only find in an academic environment, particularly in advanced or graduate classes. I can understand if you're tired of underclassman work.
I have also met or know numerous successful entrepreneurs who have dropped school when it became financially difficult or they lost interest. The ones that are truly self-motivated and have confidence in their ability to learn and be productive individually have made it far without degrees. That said, this sort of confident personality is either with you from the start, or you only find it when things get tough (it sounds from your post that you've already achieved this). With that confidence in place, why not benefit from a little bit of extra knowledge? It's only a year or two more, and if the classes are meaningful then you will be glad down the road that you made sacrifices early on (but only if you can appreciate the alternative).
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Perhaps there is value in networking at college? Get connections. Obviously you could form them outside, but it could be helpful.
I dont have any experience but beware of stress/burn out.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
I thought about it for a while... how about this.
For a "safety net" to be able to apply to postgraduate programs if you need to make a career change and/or your art career doesn't work out.
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Seems to me like you've pretty much decided you'll drop even though you know you'll regret it. A lot of your arguments sound like you are trying to rationalize your choice. I suggest you suck it up for 1 more year. GL
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Many colleges offer accellerated degree programs and online classes, both of which are much easier than a regular full time curriculum. I don't know if these would be compatible with your scholarship program, but it might be worth looking into if you haven't already.
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Just stick it out and get that piece of paper. I took a year and another half off from my university but eventually ended up graduating. Having a degree shows you finish what you started, it's kind of a rite of passage and you'll feel better about yourself for it. Accomplishments are important and graduating in anything will give you more flexibility down the track. Being a uni grad is always going to be more impressive on a resume than "I finished High School".
Ultimately, for me, dropping out felt too much like failing and I couldn't live with only having half a degree. Going on dates and feeling like a loser when the 'so what did you study?' question comes up. Even down the track, when I have a kid I don't want to have to tell them I'm a uni dropout, or run through anything like the OP rationale as to why I didn't finish what I started.
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What kind of options do you have with your scholarship(s)? Are you able to reapply if you take a year or semester off?
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I personally took a year off from engineering (health issues that aren't actually solved yet but w/e) and I made damn sure with my dean (in writing etc) that when I came back to school that I'd be exactly where i was before I made a decision to take a year off.
That's probably the only solid advice i can give to someone in your situation, get things in writing if you want to go back to school. Therefore take the rest of this post with a tiny grain of salt.
Some questions that could help you figure out a few things out would be,
How much is that scholarship actually worth?
How much money could you save in a year living conservatively? Is it enough to go back to school next year?
Does your degree get you somewhere eventually or will it ever save you from hitting a dead end?
Taking a year off school was extremely relaxing and coming back in was hard for awhile, calculus was running my show at the start of this semester, but simple motivation (a short term goal or long term) makes getting back in doable for anyone imo
Also you say you don't want a high paying job, and that your fine and happy living a mellow life. Can you honestly say that you can see yourself being that person for the rest of your life? I know I can't, personally I'd be happy right now living like that, a relaxing job/life and doing things that make me happy. But 10-15 years down the road, not so much, I'd like to have a family someday and provide for them.
Food for thought, once you have a degree no one's pointing a gun to the back of your head and saying "get a career now or die" you can relax for a few years if you want as long as the bills are paid, you're happy and you have an idea of where you're headed all is good imo
Also (last thing, i promise) you have so much more information on your current position than anyone on this forum ever will so please, please make sure you hunt down all your options so you understand them before you make this decision. I know it sounds stupid saying that to someone who's obviously thinking quite hard about a decision but I have to put it in, we're not in your head or your shoes however much we might try to be.
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I'm a ninth semester dropout and I love it. Right now I don't plan on being a dropout forever but when I went to college I didn't exactly have EE HAN TIMING! For me, living life without a general direction has done me a lot of good. I have more confidence, can talk to people easier, less stress and less anxiety; I just feel like I have a better life in general.
It's really frustrating to be in college when you aren't feeling it. It's even worse when it's getting you down. I've found that just as small a change in perspective as removing a degree from my near future has improved my happiness tenfold. Ultimately it's your call and it's a personal thing you have to do yourself. You say you're in art school, a very nice one at that, but what's the reason for that? It's cool that you like art but if you were still living in Philly and not going to college, would you feel better or worse?
The bottom line is this: take the path that you will benefit from. If your life will be better going one way as opposed to the other, do that. If your life will be noticeably better by dropping out or staying in, do that. Just remember to try to go easy on yourself and don't make this too dramatic. If you don't want to be miserable for the next 2 years, you could always drop out and make a smaller time commitment to yourself that you will use to improve your art.
I was in engineering, decided it wasn't for me about 2 years into the degree, then tried music and felt that my time would be better spent working and using the time off from college to improve on my own. It's possible to improve outside of a classroom environment and you will have to do it anyway if you want to improve after college, so why not get a head start on that?
I'm for dropping out.
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On October 24 2011 08:38 thedeadhaji wrote:
I thought about it for a while... how about this.
For a "safety net" to be able to apply to postgraduate programs if you need to make a career change and/or your art career doesn't work out.
this
or even better, switch majors if possible and get soemthng that can get you a job coming out of undergrad incase it you dont make it
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... Just finish your degree. There are so many jobs that have a minimum requirement of a university degree that you will just be completely barred off from. Sometimes it's not even related to the job, they just want to know that you completed a university degree.
How bad does it look on a resume if you put 'dropped out after 2 years of post-secondary education' ... You basically won't be able to put that experience on your resume at all.
You wrote a heck of a lot but the choice is so obvious. Unless you've got a seriously amazing opportunity right in front of you that requires you dropping out, don't drop out.
Do I need it to get a job? No. If it's an art job, no amount of school will make you good at art. People will hire you based off what you can do. If I want some other job-- an art degree isn't particularly helpful, but I have a lot of work experience.
You're naive if you don't think having a degree will inspire confidence in potential employers. Maybe it doesn't mean you're 'good at art' (quote unquote...) but it means you have the dedication to finish projects and meet deadlines, which is important. When I started my degree I was pretty disillusioned about its usefulness too, but now that I'm at the end of it I have to say I've learned a lot. You need a respect for the rules and what's already been done, or you end up being too full of yourself, too confident in work that you're not even aware how cliche it is because you haven't learned anything yet. That is my experience anyway... But if you think linking employers to your deviant art is going to be as impressive as degree go ahead and drop out.
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I completely burnt out in pharmacy school and I kind of regret it. I hanged on with barely 2.0 average while working 15-20 hours a week because I wanted to save money but in the end it was too much; my motivation was gone and I needed a fresh start and left half way through the 3rd year. I don't regret leaving pharmacy per say because I had a back up plan that I enjoyed a lot more (1 year left on my 4 year bacc in biochemistry) but it will be a pain to pay my debts because of it. This year, I'm not working so my debt is going up again but it's better than burning myself out even more.
You sound like you're in a better place with your money, mostly because you work a ton. Sometimes it's better to accumulate a bit of debt to give yourself some breathing room. I'm not sure how the situation is in the USA but if you can find some help with your money situation and borrow some (without a ridiculous interest of repayment rate) to let yourself have a day of break here and there it might be your saving grace to stop your burn out. You'll have the rest of your life to repay it.
It's a hard thing to balance. I took it too easy in my first few years because I didn't think of my money enough, figuring I'd pay it all back later (didn't really waste and I literally spend nothing but didn't work besides summers and that's not enough for long term studies). I don't recommend that path. However, who knows where I'd be if I was working too hard, I might be in a worse situation now.
Overall, there's no easy answer here. I don't recommend quitting school in general but it's hard to judge someone else's situation. It would be unfair for me to tell you what to do; only you can answer that. Maybe dropping 1 of your part time jobs if it's possible for you could be beneficial in the end.
Maybe see an orientation specialist at the school and tell him of your problems if you haven't already. They are there to help you and he might be able to help you and might be able to suggest things like doing 1 extra year and splitting the courses more so you have some free time or something else. I don't know how your scholarship works for that.
P.S : That "college experience" is complete BS and only people that don't take their studies seriously live it. If anything, it's more people who don't go to college who live it. In 7 years of university I've never had the chance to really live it; that's in 3 different cities (1 small, 1 medium, 1 huge).
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Well, let's see. Let me preface this with: I am not a college dropout - I did complete college, and I did not take a year off during college. I did, however, take a year off after college to get my head on straight and sort out my life.
You've already gotten away from your hometown and your circumstances. Diversity at Penn is about as much as you can make of it - from what it sounds, you simply don't have the time to explore and try random things or clubs.
You've spent a lot of time thinking about this, and it shows in your blog. That you're more mature than many people in college, and even some who've finished college is apparent. I respect your decision to major in art because you wanted to - it is a major, however, where many of my friends who've finished it come out with no clear plan of what their first job will be. Like you said, finishing an art degree doesn't necessarily mean you're "good" at art.
Your jobs sound like they're very demanding - is there a chance that you could find a different job with equal compensation that doesn't require you to be on call 24/7? It seems like it could be do-able with your experience, especially any on-campus jobs.
I know that some people take a gigantic course-load because that's what they see as getting the most out of their college experience - it seems like this was your mentality going in. As for the college social experience, if it doesn't appeal to you, then hey, it doesn't appeal to you. It isn't all frat parties, club socials, giant events, though.
I'm not sure what you think of as included in the college social experience, but again the lack thereof seems to stem from your lack of time. I don't know you or what you want in terms of friendships or social connections, but two of my best friends I found in my last year at university. Simply going out with other people your age, being surrounded by that intellectual environment, and being physically there with people who you consider friends that are your age is all part of the experience, even if some of them are immature or may not seem to understand you or your circumstances at times.
While that may not seem like a good friendship, I'm sure you already know that there are different levels of closeness that people feel with each other, and that different groups of friends sometimes fit your moods better at certain times. There are times when I just don't feel like being with a specific group of friends, and just need to be that other self with another group. For me, I found these many different groups in college.
As others have said in this thread - the degree itself is more symbolic than practical. To employers, it does show that you've finished something that you set out to do. Whether or not you realized it when you started university, society has a stigma (that has been decreasing, what with the brilliance of entrepreneurs who never finished college) against college dropouts. I think that instead of potentially running into situations where people will ask whether or not you have a degree and why you don't, it would be stronger if you were able to say that yes, you do have a degree, and you had to work through and overcome all this shit to get it.
I don't know what you want out of life, or how those things may or may not change. I'm also not from the midwest, or the east coast - I've found that people from different areas of the USA (let alone the world) have different mindsets and views on what they want from life. Is the chance that you're going to look back and regret spending these next 18-24 months in college higher than the chance that you're going to look back and regret not finishing? I realize that's a huge question to ask, especially since it's over the scope of your entire life, where many things will change. However, what you're asking for - a long term, tangible benefit to finishing college - I can't give you. For one, I'm not old enough to give you that long term perspective yet. For two, it will depend on the life you decide to live. What have you learned and in what ways have you changed since you came to UPenn, and do you see yourself improving while staying at college?
Obviously you've already learned to work in high pressure situations and under deadlines. You can be social, work in groups and without supervision. You're motivated and driven, and unafraid to do what you think is right. You speak your mind, and have learned to compromise. Now - instead of having to take up lines upon lines of your resume with that, you can put "Bachelor of Arts in Art Practice - UPenn." While ok, it is kind of a stretch that employers will get all of that from a Bachelor's Degree, the degree will make it easier for you to get your foot in the door of a new job, where you can show them what you can do.
Along that same vein, what are your long term aspirations in life? If it is, like you say, to live in an apartment with a pet, visit state parks in the summer, etc, then the plan that you have laid out for that might be the best plan to follow. If that can be accomplished without completing a college degree, then more power to you.
You said you're burnt out - can you take a year off, just so you can focus on working full time and not have to worry about school? Talk to your dean, or someone in school admin who can ensure that you'll be able to come back, scholarship and all, and finish. You can concentrate on improving yourself, figuring out your life, working out finances, refreshing your batteries, or clearing your head while working a full time job much easier than you could do any of those things while in school.
TL;DR: Can you find a different job or more time? College experience varies from person to person, in general it's as much as you can make out of it, so you need more time to actually have one. Degree is symbolic and good, helps you get foot in door at new jobs and on applications, so you can show them what you can do. Will you regret the decision to leave college later? Take a year off to recoup your energy.
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Your schedule sounds miserable. I personally don't think it's a good idea to continue for 2 more years. If you are already burnt out half way through your education and life is likely to suffer if you keep going for 2 more. IMHO it's not worth it for an art degree.
Oh, and I was so afraid of this being another one of those "I'm going to be a progamer, I'm in Diamond but I can be GM if only I laddered, should I drop out?" threads.
I hope, whatever you do, you are happy. GL HF!
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On October 24 2011 15:24 Mobius_1 wrote:
Your schedule sounds miserable. I personally don't think it's a good idea to continue for 2 more years. If you are already burnt out half way through your education and life is likely to suffer if you keep going for 2 more. IMHO it's not worth it for an art degree.
Oh, and I was so afraid of this being another one of those "I'm going to be a progamer, I'm in Diamond but I can be GM if only I laddered, should I drop out?" threads.
I hope, whatever you do, you are happy. GL HF!
LOL! I also thought he wants to become a progamer!
I haven't worked a singe day of my life, I was a fulltime high school guy whose a a fulltime college guy, so I have no idea of the hell you're going to, but it seems to me like you're sort off used to the fast pace - you hate it, but in a way you're used to it.
If you can, suck it up for 2 more years. The pain of dropping out will be much much bigger than the pain of "wasting" 2 years, as you see it.
If you drop out, for example, for the rest of your life, when you're on a date, you'll tell the opening post story
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I don't have any solid advice, I just wanted to say good luck with what ever you chose and I hope you'll eventually be a happier person because of it.
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Can't you get a loan and quit a job if you're at UPenn?
If you're an artist, can't you do some commission work?
The SC2 community is insanely generous, i don't know what type of art you do (mentioned drawings) but i'm sure you could raise a lot of money on SC2 related art. If you're good - you won't even have to do that. That scholarship speaks to some talent and there is always a demand for talent.
If you don't want a high paying job, you should definitely stay in uni, finish your degree then become a museum curator, conservationist or similar. It pays the bills, keeps you close to the art and you'll be able to secure a really good position with a degree from UPenn.
Most important of all my advice though - JOIN CREW! UPenn has fine rowing and even if you're a bit heavy now, you can work that off. Joining or even starting a small amateur crew will get you friends, foster team spirit and make you more happy overall - endorphins, losing weight, you name it.
The most important resource to harvest from a top 10 world uni is the people there, i don't think you've tapped into that source of enjoyment enough. Might even be someone there sympathetic towards esports.
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On October 24 2011 15:24 Mobius_1 wrote:
Your schedule sounds miserable. I personally don't think it's a good idea to continue for 2 more years. If you are already burnt out half way through your education and life is likely to suffer if you keep going for 2 more. IMHO it's not worth it for an art degree.
Oh, and I was so afraid of this being another one of those "I'm going to be a progamer, I'm in Diamond but I can be GM if only I laddered, should I drop out?" threads.
I hope, whatever you do, you are happy. GL HF!
I agree that that schedule does sound really extreme. I wonder if there's a way you could continue to go to school but not work yourself to death.
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EPT
