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On October 04 2011 09:19 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 09:13 NotChezinu wrote:On October 04 2011 09:09 wherebugsgo wrote:Ladies and gentlemen, THIS is the reason NC is not talking to me: Original Message From NotChezinu: sorry, you gave up my smurf. I'm done talking with you. I understand sharing logs, no issue with that, but there was no reason not to go back and blank out all the GMarshal's. I'm honestly peeved about that. Original Message From wherebugsgo:
let's go now yeah GM, great idea on your part to disappear for 8 hours and the entire night phase, then not want to talk in IRC because I didn't blank out the part where you claimed to me and Incog in IRC. Had you actually played properly I would never have seen any reason to disclose those logs to anyone. fuck you. So, I have a family emergency AND an issue with my college funding , meaning I had other things to take care of. Sorry that I couldn't be here for you. I remind you though that you fully agreed with my case on curu. What happened to that? Oh right you had a change of heart, how... convenient. I'd request a vigi fucking shoot me now. yes because the case really held up when Mig posted logs of both Curu and Palmar PMing him right? If you're town how can you be this blind? How are you supposed to expect Curu to be scum after what Mig posted in the thread? Yeah, it's understandable if none of that evidence existed, but it's honestly more retarded to ignore it and continue pushing a case that is dead once the relevant evidence has appeared. That's just closed-mindedness. How is Curu scum in this case? Would he and Palmar have faked the logs in advance? I honestly don't see this. It's extremely weird you would show up RIGHT AFTER the night phase is over, too. And finally you don't need to emotionally appeal to get your point across. The game is fucked enough as it is.
You know what. I can't deal with this right now.
##vote: NotChezinu
Lets kill me and get this shit over with. If I'm not in the proper mindset to argue logically with anyone, and I don't want to say anything I'm going to regret postgame.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
this is the friendship and rainbows committee, reminding people to play nice.
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Well in that case...
##Vote: NotChezinu
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THIS is why I held doubt in lynching NC.
God this game is extremely frustrating atm.
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GM if you are Town re-evaluate your case on me and ask yourself without your tunnel vision if you really believe it to be true.
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That I would bus the member who adds 1 KP every other night. You watched me play scum in your game (actually you watched me rage at chaoser there for busing). You know I don't bus, I even went balls to the wall to defend Mig which should've gotten me caught.
You bring up the Palmar had RL issues thing but look at how quickly Scamp replaced Lucidity. If Palmar really had to get out of the game there was a replacement waiting in the wings which would have made infinite more sense than busing the godamn Pyro.
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indeed, it would make a lot more sense to bus a goon than a pyro.
Also I tend to buy the argument that both Curu and Palmar are really lazy as scum. On top of the unlikelihood of scum bussing someone day 1 AND it being the pyro, AND them going out of their way to convince Mig, AND faking logs between each other, I just don't see Curu being scum anymore.
Had I known about Palmar and Curu both messaging Mig, and had I known about the Curu/Palmar logs I would've never gone to the lengths that I did to think Curu could possibly be scum.
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bleh, sorry for the outburst, shouldn't have cursed at you wbg -__-
Either way I'm taking a 24 hour break to make sure it doesn't happen again.
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NC is an easy lynch. I don't like this.
We don't actually gain information today (like yesterday) no matter what NC flips, IMO. If he's scum he's likely to get bussed, if he's town he'll just get bandwagonned.
So, although I don't oppose the NC lynch I say we consider the use of what time we have to generate discussion about the players who remain in the game and determine who fits the bill of being scum.
Let's start with this guy:
On October 02 2011 00:52 risk.nuke wrote:I don't know what is going on in Pm-land That said, here is what I currently think, --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kill IncognitoThe fact that incogs last post was 15 minutes before prplhz got killed I'm 100% sure he's scum. Suspicious peoplewherebugsgoI have been suspicious at wbg for a long time. + Show Spoiler +On September 30 2011 20:47 risk.nuke wrote:If I was going to suspect anyone of beeing gf it would be wbg. Going through his posting, He's definitely trying to create chaos amongst town, and he's agressive enough to think that if he got checked he would come up townie. Altough he cleaverly never straight out defended Palmar the more I look through his posts the more I think he's scum. + Show Spoiler +On September 29 2011 10:02 wherebugsgo wrote:
Also Jackal, since you think I'm scum why is your vote still on Palmar?
You know, that shitty start of the game vote that you have yet to change, or, hell, even put in the voting thread? Fakevote much?
Don't have any scumreads? Don't intend to contribute?
On September 30 2011 02:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
Palmar looks scummy despite alignment so blah. He's made sense this game to me.
Thus, I still prefer Jackal. If anyone knows something I don't please let me know. He tries to steal the heat from Palmar thinking that after he got a palmar voter to vote for him instead, he could play the suspicious saint and probably get the town on his side leading to the voters eventually voting for someone else. + Show Spoiler +On September 30 2011 04:34 wherebugsgo wrote:
Sounds like you sheeped and didn't look into any of this yourself.
You basically just admitted to voting Palmar solely because of other people's reasons. Did you question those reasons? Why are you so quick to believe them?
If Palmar is scum you're scum too. He tries to create some other suspicious people based on shit and nothing just to create more chaos and distrust. He's case on Furumite started building when he realised Palmer was going down and he wanted to try and frame someone with it. The only thing wbg has on his plus side is he has been hammering Incognito which he has been doing since the start. If Incognito flips blue wbg is most likely scum. If he flips red This doesn't rule wbg out (see spoiler), might be a longshot but It wouldn't be the first time. *This is HYPOTHETICALLY and IF Incognitos flips red + Show Spoiler + Wbg started of attacking incognito to give the townies the feeling that those two can not possibly be together. Despite actually going on him like a berserker wbg doesn't give any solid arguments for why incognito was mafia. Possibly expecting veterans to ignore it because of the lack of arguments and still giving achieving the goal giving townies the feeeling of distrust between wbg and incognito.
He was probably hoping incognitos last plan would save Incognito, when it backfired wbg realise they have to give incognito up
Short time after my post against wbg, he posts this + Show Spoiler +On September 30 2011 23:28 tnkted wrote:
WBG is town. I bring this information from PM land. Plz don't shoot him. and this + Show Spoiler +On September 30 2011 23:34 tnkted wrote:
PM me for questions, back to class I'm a bit puzzled to why I should let a suspicous person be, and since he asked me to. I pm tnktd and ask him why I should drop wbg. In his reply I got no answer from tnktd. I don't understand why he would not tell me why wbg is not mafia since he seems to know that for certainty. As said earlier the first priority of all townies should be to establish their innocence so why? (it's before the first night is over so roles should be irrelevant. Instead he attempts to swing the conversation into me giving him my scumreads. I don't answer while thinking about what to read out of it and what to reply. Shortly after I get another pm, this time from wbg asking the same thing. Me and wbg haven't had any prior private contact and I get scumchills all up my spine. Other notesI don't think Curu is scum but the only person I would consider safe is MigThe person to pm me before speaking in irc was dropbear.
Every single person he mentions in this post is town. Note how he starts with the thing about prpl dying.
First of all, NOTHING was clear about what it meant for prpl to die. Perhaps some mafia wanted to create WIFOM and make Incog look bad by killing prpl (clearly it worked). risk jumps on this and claims Incog 100% mafia solely based on this incident. He also earlier said "I don't buy his bluff" without ever explaining what he meant by that. It was clearly in context of Incog and prpl, but other than putting out there that he had his doubts risk never commented on the lynch of Incog.
He then sets me up to be scum if Incog flips blue, without actually providing evidence as to why that is true.
So, first, Incog was set up to be scum 100% by the way he posted and how prpl died, according to risk. So then WHY am I considered to be scum if Incog flips blue? What happened to that confidence, and where is this link coming from?
I'm a bit puzzled to why I should let a suspicous person be, and since he asked me to. I pm tnktd and ask him why I should drop wbg. In his reply I got no answer from tnktd. I don't understand why he would not tell me why wbg is not mafia since he seems to know that for certainty. As said earlier the first priority of all townies should be to establish their innocence so why? (it's before the first night is over so roles should be irrelevant.Instead he attempts to swing the conversation into me giving him my scumreads. I don't answer while thinking about what to read out of it and what to reply. Shortly after I get another pm, this time from wbg asking the same thing. Me and wbg haven't had any prior private contact and I get scumchills all up my spine.
Other notes
I don't think Curu is scum but the only person I would consider safe is Mig
The person to pm me before speaking in irc was dropbear.
I don't understand the bolded part.
Please let me know if I'm wrong and it's just risk.nuke who has ignored my PMs, but AFAIK he has not spoken to anyone in this game yet. If he has, then I must simply not know about it for whatever reason.
If you have spoken to risk.nuke please PM me or some townie you trust and tell them.
However, at the time I thought it was rather suspicious he didn't even bother to reply to me. Since he posted this (and I didn't actually notice he posted this before) it suggests he is not mute. If he were mute, he wouldn't post in the thread that he considered what to reply.
The only other post of significance risk.nuke has made all game is this:
On September 30 2011 20:47 risk.nuke wrote:If I was going to suspect anyone of beeing gf it would be wbg. Going through his posting, He's definitely trying to create chaos amongst town, and he's agressive enough to think that if he got checked he would come up townie. Altough he cleaverly never straight out defended Palmar the more I look through his posts the more I think he's scum. + Show Spoiler +On September 29 2011 10:02 wherebugsgo wrote:
Also Jackal, since you think I'm scum why is your vote still on Palmar?
You know, that shitty start of the game vote that you have yet to change, or, hell, even put in the voting thread? Fakevote much?
Don't have any scumreads? Don't intend to contribute?
On September 30 2011 02:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
Palmar looks scummy despite alignment so blah. He's made sense this game to me.
Thus, I still prefer Jackal. If anyone knows something I don't please let me know. He tries to steal the heat from Palmar thinking that after he got a palmar voter to vote for him instead, he could play the suspicious saint and probably get the town on his side leading to the voters eventually voting for someone else. + Show Spoiler +On September 30 2011 04:34 wherebugsgo wrote:
Sounds like you sheeped and didn't look into any of this yourself.
You basically just admitted to voting Palmar solely because of other people's reasons. Did you question those reasons? Why are you so quick to believe them?
If Palmar is scum you're scum too.
Where he, for whatever reason, accuses me of being GF (I called him out on it and I never got a response)
This post's logic is so convoluted I really don't know what to say.
The last part I've bolded is interesting because it's a soft defend of Forumite. He accuses me of making a case on Forumite based on nothing (false) and that I wanted to frame someone for Palmar going down (wtf does that mean?) when I realized he wasn't saveable (lol)
Fact is, I had very good reasons for believing Forumite was scum (he was wishy washy as hell on Palmar) and also, the "framing" part makes no sense whatsoever.
I'm rather tired of the multiple players in this game, particularly risk.nuke, sinani, Forumite, and Sevryn getting away with not contributing anything worthwhile and not taking flak for it. We need to step it up and pressure these players, or we'll have some trouble on our hands when we're trying to figure out which one of the lurkers is most likely to be scum.
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What I don't understand is why would NotChez got through the effort of making such a stupid countercase on me when Incognito was Town? If Incognito was scum it would have made sense so Mafia could save their KP but I can't see the motivation behind it now.
Another thing that concerns me is no one even tried to save Palmar except Incognito and WBG (and somewhat Forumite) and we saw how he flipped. This would indicate that the remaining Mafia team is possibly all among the lurkers since no one with any thread presence stepped forward to try to stop that lynch or direct another one.
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way to steal the gist of my incoming wall of text curu, well done :D
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yeah I don't think NC is scum. Me, Incog, and NC literally spent 24 hours coming up with that plan.
Nothing NC said then seems scummy, and nothing he's done since (other than randomly disappearing) is either.
However I will say he's worth a check, and if he doesn't contribute his thoughts we should kill him.
Since NC has no links to any players other than me, I think we should find the other 2 scum first (since I am definitely not scum) and we can kill NC in the case we don't find scum today.
##unvote NotChezinu
##vote risk.nuke
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I would like to talk about scummy Lukers a bit more. Now for obvious reason the spotlight has been on the better players in this game and naturally the Day1 lynch of Palmar must be suspect to someone like Incognito, who is known for being a pretty good player.
What NC and Incog noted themselves in their analysis about Curu is the lack of any defence or derailing of the thread. The lynch happened basicly uncontested. The two options were
A) It was a Bus
B) Scum consists mainly of weaker players, who just did not do much at all and let it all happen.
The second option was surprisingly quickly disregarded, but I would like to point out that a ton of players in this game are not known for being the strongest players this game has ever seen.
Right now I count eight people who have contributed next to nothing, at least in the thread. As Incognito pointed out himself, mafia, especially inexperienced mafia love to hide. And when you have fairly high profile players like Curu and GM shouting at each other, there is not really any need for them to contribute anything either, since there are 5 others who do exactly the same thing and until now seem to be completely fine.
Another point that has been brought up is that the team must have been balanced beforehand. Its a Kurumi game, people , when he said "I am rolling the dice right now" do you honestly think it impossible for him to just leave the team as it is? I find those kind of "meta" arguments to be amongst the most stupid, to be honest. We cannot really rely on that and I think that shouting contest between Curu and GM based on that fact was pretty fucking stupid.
Now NC, this brings me to a problem I had with Incognitos first post in the game. He basicly said that Town needs to keep Scum in the dark as muc as possible to make them work for information, too.
There may be truth in that but in this game it clearly led to Incognitos death, combined with the cases on Prplhz and Curu. The thing to note about the first case is that if you look at it , it is actually not that bad. It unfortunatly did seem to come out thin air, prplhz died ten minutes later and Incog was the best target for a lynch (although I still cannot believe people took that as a Scum reveal). Since we had next to no information about Incognito , I do not think anyone really can be blamed for deciding to kill him. He is known as an unbelievably good scumhunter and all we saw him do was being wrong. It does not matter what he did in PM Land unless it is made visible, some of us never even had the opportunity to properly speak with him. I still do not know why you thought that case on Curu was solid in any way but with that timing and no external information, it just looked like a diversion especially after Mig dismantled it. So I think instead of shouting at people you should learn the lessons if you are town and instead of ignoring this game for 24 hours, go ahead and hunt some scum. Even if you are right and curu is scum, there are still 2 others missing , correct? If you stay silent now you are probably going to be lynched and Curu probably is not. And that will fuck town over, badly. I am just going to steal something that Mig took out of Incognitos analysis of PYP:
As a townie, you know your goal is to lynch all the mafia. But its easy to try to jump into the fray without knowing having a clear plan of action of how you are going to get to your goal. As has been stated before, the key is maintaining a positive town atmosphere. So how is this done? In order of descending importance:
1. Establish your innocence
2. Support the right townies
3. Vote properly
4. Shut down any attempts to lynch other obvious townies
5. Shut down attempts to spread doubt or chaos in the thread
That does not sound like you right now , does it? I think it would be great if you could at least try(If you are scum then don't , that would help town too  )
I will have to think about a lynch candidate still, will give mythoughts on that tomorrow, I just think lynching either Curu or NC would be a big mistake on our part.
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yo Erandor let's do something about this scummy lurker problem.
Let's get rid of risk.nuke. I don't buy NC being scum, and if he's not scum he'll (hopefully) establish his towniness in the next 43 hours.
If he is indeed scum we'll have plenty of time to switch our votes back to him before the end of the day. We only need what, 7 votes?
That's not a lot
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If it's scummy lurkers we're going for I would prefer a good look at sinani or Forumite.
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I agree that they both are pretty scummy (Sevryn as well) but I had the impression that a lot of people thought Forumite was town (particularly Mig)
Whichever of these lurkers is the scummiest, IMO, should get the axe today. risk.nuke did a nice soft defend of Forumite so I'd expect him to flip scum, and I wouldn't be surprised if Forumite is scum too.
Curu have you PMed risk.nuke at all? Has anyone?
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Forumite was considered Town mostly because of his actions during that night. There were also some little subtle things that Forumite did that seemed Townie.
sinani I am wondering about because he completely avoided the Palmar issue and then immediately jumped on the Incognito one. But there are things that just suggest careless Town on him too, such as leaving his vote until the deadline (modkill possibility).
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I take it no one has PMed risk.nuke?
What's up with the really bad activity levels?
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Actually reading through PTP1 I can't put it past GM to use fake emotions as scum. The point still stands that the attempted wagon makes no sense as Incog was Town but I'm still suspicious of GM.
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If Town kills Town, then Scum can just lay back and watch. The deaths so far have been mostly active Towns, a few of them up for lynches. I´m leaning towards Curu and NC being Town, and Scum hiding among the lurkers who haven´t gotten any attention, like Supersoft. He threw a jokevote on Palmar immediately, and left it there, day 2 he voted on NC, to make a point on his opinion of Incog, not because there was any chance in hell that NC would get lynched instead. Anytime he is brought up, someone else goes in and changes the topic, and when I actually accuse him of fishing for the people I´ve been talking to, he reacts as if cornered. I wanted to know if anyone has gotten suspiuos PMs from Supersoft, and he jumps in and nips it in the bud to make sure noone answers the question, then starts talking about the case on Curu.
##Vote Supersoft
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EPT
