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Ok i didn't mean red as in mafia i meant red as in non-town.
And by mason i meant 'can communicate with other outside the thread' not 'can convert people'.
Why would you think voldemort couldn't 'mason' people - only chat to them, but then potter can convert them to another group?
And what i meant by the flavour text phrase (and others have mentioned this recently) is that if you assume that when the role pm to voldy to kill harry potter that was flavour text aka ornamental bullcrap, then you also have to assume the corresponding phrase in potters pm role was ornamental or mistaken.
Deconduo said everyone must post a role.
Deconduo said all roles will be used.
I agree that this seems to be a twin role that Dec created based on a theme.
I disagree that these roles have a synergy that connects them through opposing alignment. Harry and Voldy being green is as weird as voldy being green and harry red.
You haven't given me any reasons to see potter as a 3rd party, all your reasons are meta about the creation of the roles...
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I think your confusion comes from the definition of Mason. By Mason I mean can chat with them, not a Cult-style alignment changing. Basically I am saying Jackal can do the same thing ON could.
Clear?
I also did not assume Voldy's role PM to kill Harry was flavour. I said it might be, and if isn't then it doesn't make sense for Harry to be Mafia because that's a completely redundant win condition.
Clear?
I did not say it's weird for them to be the same alignment. I said it'd be weird of them to be Town-Mafia, and ON is certainly Town. I said it's possible they're both Town. I think Jackal is a 3rd because I think that he made up part of his role PM cause it didn't make sense to have anything hinting at alignment in his PM.
Clear?
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On July 25 2011 15:30 Curu wrote:
I think your confusion comes from the definition of Mason. By Mason I mean can chat with them, not a Cult-style alignment changing. Basically I am saying Jackal can do the same thing ON could.
Clear?
I also did not assume Voldy's role PM to kill Harry was flavour. I said it might be, and if isn't then it doesn't make sense for Harry to be Mafia because that's a completely redundant win condition.
Clear?
I did not say it's weird for them to be the same alignment. I said it'd be weird of them to be Town-Mafia, and ON is certainly Town. I said it's possible they're both Town. I think Jackal is a 3rd because I think that he made up part of his role PM cause it didn't make sense to have anything hinting at alignment in his PM.
Clear?
#1 - Clear
#2 - You can't say that given 2 choices where 1 is redundant (and therefore unviable) you haven't made your mind up. You have made your mind up. It's the non-redundant one. Therefore you do think it's flavour text. Not only do you disagree with yourself otherwise but I don't think anyone has actually treated it as a real win-condition.
#3 - If you think he made up the part of his PM that was flavour in the twin voldy PM then you're disagreeing with the result of #2 which you can't cos the other result is redundant.
You are disagreeing with yourself and justifying it by saying the disagreement is over 2 different things. Whether or not it was flavour text is the same as whether or not jackal lied. It's that simple.
If it wasn't flavour text on voldy it's redundant. If it was flavour on voldy's then he had no reason to lie!
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Oh and say it's ok if he's 3rd party cos they're still an anti-town role
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EBWOP: Oh and don't say it's ok if he's 3rd party cos they're still an anti-town role
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Actually now that I think more about it, it doesn't make sense for Jackal to be a hostile 3rd either since that would still make the ON win condition redundant as well.
Anyways let's just discontinue this train of thought because it hinges on ON having a separate win condition (we have no way to know) and that there would be no redundancy in win conditions (we have no way to know).
I understand what you're saying now Tackster but the reason I think Jackal's is a lie is because having an indication of alignment in a role PM is really nonsensical. Flavour is supposed to be flavour, having a straight up thing about someone else's alignment in your role PM actually affects the game. Again we have no way to verify whether ON's thing was flavour or an actual win condition because his death didn't reveal that.
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Well in fairness I can't see the problem with your response either so I suppose my scumhunt has failed... Onto my next victim!
And by the way - I'm basically in agreement with the statement you just made. I would go so far as to say there is probably an anti-town in the group of Jackal, Heist and YM - but in general on day one i still prefer to lynch someone i can't analyse rather than someone active.
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On July 25 2011 15:44 Curu wrote:
Actually now that I think more about it, it doesn't make sense for Jackal to be a hostile 3rd either since that would still make the ON win condition redundant as well.
Anyways let's just discontinue this train of thought because it hinges on ON having a separate win condition (we have no way to know) and that there would be no redundancy in win conditions (we have no way to know).
I understand what you're saying now Tackster but the reason I think Jackal's is a lie is because having an indication of alignment in a role PM is really nonsensical. Flavour is supposed to be flavour, having a straight up thing about someone else's alignment in your role PM actually affects the game. Again we have no way to verify whether ON's thing was flavour or an actual win condition because his death didn't reveal that.
wow, curu, you did what I expected you to do and flooded the whole thread... :D
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At least I'm not doing it with tunneling you this time. At least not yet <3.
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Thanks for giving me a vanilla townie. Great.
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It makes no sense for mafia to fake role PM like that as it could only lead to town lynching ON and confirming his alignment. I'm more inclined to believe the whole alignment thing in the PM is a red herring or that he is third party.
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United States720 Posts
Bottom line:
ON's role post tells him to try and kill Harry Potter. I find it extremely hard to believe that a townie would be given instructions to kill someone in their exact same alignment ESPECIALLY as these two roles were deliberately created with the other mind. I believe deconduo placed Harry and Voldemort at opposing alignments. If Deconduo truly randomized the alignment of these two roles, why would he include that statement to kill Harry Potter? He would not have created Voldemort's role with wording that clearly has alignment in mind if he was just gonna randomize it.
"You are Voldemort, and you are on a mission to kill Harry Potter and keep him from uniting the three Deathly Hallows. Each item you or Harry Potter obtain will grant the holder a power, but unfortunately you can only use one item per night."
Can it be flavour text? Why is it so explicit for a flavour text? It's not telling him to merely compete with Harry Potter for night abilities, but to try and kill him.
Just because it's not flavour text DOES NOT make it redundant. Redundant would be "you are on a mission to kill scum". His role provides him with a crucial clue: it provides him with the role name of a mafia/3rd party. Lucky for us, Jackal was happy enough to oblige and reveal his role. ON does not have a separate win condition, he shares his win condition with the rest of the town: to kill all scum. His role provides a clue, and it would be very imprudent to ignore it just because jackal's behavior doesn't match.
I know I'm not going off behavior, but I feel like ON's role reveal is something too good to be passed on. I'd love to hear what jackal has to say.
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On July 25 2011 13:39 Foolishness wrote:players like kitaman get a  free ride
On July 25 2011 13:43 Foolishness wrote:In the  First game,
On July 25 2011 14:56 Foolishness wrote: lynching based off of day 1 clues is a great idea?
On July 25 2011 15:14 Foolishness wrote:I decided to  Start counting
Am I the only person who has noticed this or.....
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Also consider the subtleties of the role you created. If the person you picked the role for isn't utilizing (for instance by not doing anything at all or not warning the town about some dangerous aspect of the role) the role in a pro-town manner and you can't think of a good reason for it, he is probably not town aligned. Since revealing who you created the role for triggers a penalty, it should be only used as a last resort when you are certain the person in question is scum, or possibly to prevent a mislynch. Rather it's preferable to simply build a convincing case.
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I just noticed - people are voting in the voting thread without posting in the forum!
Tsk tsk tsk - does this have to be explained every time?
notify us of votes here too please or i will scold you severely!
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Regarding penalty triggers, I think there's a decent chance that lurking could be one of them. Don't lurk. It's quite possible some penalties turn your role uncontrollable or otherwise dangerous.
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I think Jackal58 needs to hang no matter how you look at it. We know that ON flipped green, and I very much doubt they'd be on the same side, especially now that we know Jackal58 lied about his role pm.
I'm pretty sure Jackal is anti-town.
Can we just get a day-vig to shoot jackal58, so we can actually get some discussion going, instead of just herping and derping about roles and writing harry potter fanfic?
Any day-vig who straight up shoots harry potter in the face is doing this town massive favor.
##Vote Jackal58
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Pretty sure you people pushing jackal aren't this gullible/blind, but rather not town aligned
Care to explain why mafia jackal would reveal his role immediately, knowing ON's real aligned and what will likely happen when ON flips town
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I want Potter to die because I have this filthy cloak. Also HP is terrible. Well I thought I will get an interesting role as the one I gave. Hope the person is lucky enough to pull off some awesome things.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On July 25 2011 18:24 Palmar wrote:
I think Jackal58 needs to hang no matter how you look at it. We know that ON flipped green, and I very much doubt they'd be on the same side, especially now that we know Jackal58 lied about his role pm.
I'm pretty sure Jackal is anti-town.
Can we just get a day-vig to shoot jackal58, so we can actually get some discussion going, instead of just herping and derping about roles and writing harry potter fanfic?
Any day-vig who straight up shoots harry potter in the face is doing this town massive favor.
##Vote Jackal58
Watch him not be harry potter but in fact a detective!
at any rate I am suspecting jackal as clearly he lied about his role ( Voldemort being townie ) and it's pretty obvious that he is an alternate alignment to Voldemort so either way he needs killing.
Also I am guessing heist wrote the role or is there a third harry potter role out there?
Final note - If you vote in the voting thread without telling anyone why I will start the bandwagon on you myself.
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EPT
