SMAC (Alpha Centauri) exhibition game - Page 5

KwarK

United States41539 Posts

July 01 2011 20:49 GMT

#81

When I do this I play Gaians and sim city a half dozen cities with manually controlled formers and converting every square. With hardest difficulty and native wildlife set at most dangerous you can get some interesting games. Mind worms are pretty easy to tech to, have massive mobility advantages on fungus and can pretty much kill anything else if they attack them and with room to breathe you can easily get some 10+ cities while the rest of them are still in mud huts.

ToT)OjKa(

Korea (South)2437 Posts

July 01 2011 20:53 GMT

#82

Cool man, it's been far too long since I played this and even then I don't recall how much of it I got through. hfhf in the next game I will be reading

Disquiet

Australia628 Posts

July 02 2011 23:38 GMT

#83

On July 01 2011 13:13 6xFPCs wrote:
Leaving in a few hours, but I wanted to leave these polls here for you guys so that when I come back, we can get straight into the next game. The options should be self-explanatory, or google-able, except perhaps for game-of-the-month, which means we all play the same starting save and compete for points or fastest victory.

Poll: The next game should be...

exhibition! (More just like this please!) (15)

79%

game-of-the-month! (I can do better than you! And you! Oh and especially YOU!) (4)

21%

succession! (Let's take turns running an empire into the ground!) (0)

0%

19 total votes

Your vote: The next game should be...

(Vote): exhibition! (More just like this please!)
(Vote): succession! (Let's take turns running an empire into the ground!)
(Vote): game-of-the-month! (I can do better than you! And you! Oh and especially YOU!)

Poll: What faction should we play as? (excluding Uni)

Gaians ("mind worms are our friends" (9)

36%

Morganites ("money is power, also screw you" (8)

32%

Believers ("who needs tech, we have faith" (3)

12%

Hive ("let's cover the world in humans" (2)

8%

Peacekeepers ("we're the United Nations, but without nations" (2)

8%

Spartans ("military might makes political right" (1)

4%

25 total votes

Your vote: What faction should we play as? (excluding Uni)

(Vote): Gaians ("mind worms are our friends"
(Vote): Hive ("let's cover the world in humans"
(Vote): Morganites ("money is power, also screw you"
(Vote): Spartans ("military might makes political right"
(Vote): Believers ("who needs tech, we have faith"
(Vote): Peacekeepers ("we're the United Nations, but without nations"

Any reason you're not playing SMAX? I know not all the new factions are that great(cult is a lame weaker gaians clone, aliens don't really fit and the data angels are just crap) but the free drones, pirates and cyborgs are all fun factions. The best thing about smax though is the alien armors that give psi protection, mindworms are not so ridiculously overpowered.

6xFPCs

United States412 Posts

July 15 2011 19:36 GMT

#84

Hey guys, I got back from Asia a few days ago, but, due to a slight illness, have held off on starting up the next game. I'm feeling ready now, though, so I just wanted to post here to let you know that your votes have been tallied and the next game will an exhibition game playing as the Gaians on Transcend difficulty.

I'll start the writeup soon, but first let's talk about the Gaians for a moment, as they are one of my favorites, and also rather special (imho).

The Gaians are the faction that makes SMAC truly different from classic civilization games, in that they don't just have the normal variations that might "distinguish" different civilizations/factions (i.e. tweaks to build speed, natural military strength, econ, tech), they rely on a wholly different approach to army strength, colonization, money generation, and base improvement. This is because they are the faction that does not just deal with, but actively seeks to interact with the uniqueness of being on an alien planet (called either "Alpha Centauri" or just "Planet").

Gaian armies are like Terran mech armies, you don't want to lose units because they take a long time to build. That is, your army will be made up of captured mind worms, and capturing is slow. Smart Gaian players are actively scouring the fungus for mind worms to capture, and for the energy credits that slain mind worms give. Capturing mind worms gives a unit that will perform roughly the same regardless of atk/def tech, potentially will not require support from your bases (i.e. is truly free), and generally wins any 1v1 unit fight thanks to the Gaians native +1 planet rating giving +10% mind worm attack.
Oh, and since the fastest way to search fungus is with mind worms, your capturing will go faster as you get more captured worms. Don't lose your worms, they're both Thor and drone.

Gaian expansion is fun because you get +1 nutrients in fungus (total of 2-0-0 fungus early game). So not only can you outpop most factions, you can colonize random spots without too much thought. At worst, you get a base without minerals or energy. Add in some forests, and you can get by with very few formers, focusing on getting even more colony pods instead.

Energy generation I touched on above. Basically, if you don't capture any given worm, you'll kill it (that +10% combat bonus applies whether you are controlling the worm OR fighting it), giving you 10 credits per morale level of the worm. Also, stacked mind worms all die or get captured if you kill or capture one unit defending the stack, so things can get ridiculous, especially against sea worms (isles of the deep), which generally carry two worms. So you can expect around 90 credits per isle, for example. That's two well-timed rush-buys, or can purchase almost a whole tech. For one fight that favors you from the get-go, and will often capture you those worms anyway.
In case you're still not understanding Gaian military wickedness, note that if you plop a random base at the Manifold Nexus (+1planet), and also run Green econ, your worms have +40% attack. Counterable, yes--isn't everything, in a well-made game?--but it means an aggressive Gaian player can smash face in a terrifyingly unexpected way.

The last thing to note is that Gaians on blind research tend to get the unit type/chassis techs early, so quick speeder tech or quick air power supported by mind worms often means death to even a faction with the military tech lead, or will save you from an attack by that same faction.

tl;dr We playing Gaians for the next exhibition game. Gaians are awesome in a way that is unique to SMAC.

EDIT phone spelling

maryelizbethwinstead

Mexico223 Posts

July 17 2011 15:00 GMT

#85

Also Deidre is kind of hot

I want to see a Miltary Victory! Native Lifeforms super-abundant gogogo

6xFPCs

United States412 Posts

July 25 2011 01:19 GMT

#86

In the interest of making it so that no one has to find a re-subscribe to another thread, I'm going to post the new game in here. Someone pm me if that's a bad idea.

Also something exploded at work, hence the week's delay. Not literally exploded, though that occasionally happens, but still, time-consuming.

Oh and I'm going to speed through the first parts until something happens. While I'm sure you want to see my thoughts behind base placement, scouting, etc., I plan to place upwards of 20 bases in the first 100 turns and explore most of the map in that same time. So I'll just point out the good stuff.

Here we go:

Gaians. Transcend. All random map of standard size (that includes random native life-form setting!)

MY2130

Our little empire. Monsoon jungle again! And FOUR monuments? This... might be too easy.

Morgan conquering the Hive? Hm...

MY2133

Santiago is across the strait from us. Has contact with Miriam, we decline to purchase the comm frequency for 35 credits. Miriam hates everyone anyway.

MY2138

We get Centauri Empathy! We immediately switch to Green econ, though Morgan will get angry at us.

MY2139

Peacekeepers get HGP?! Ugh, I was hoping we were at least in the running for this very Gaian project. At least we know that Lal won't get too much benefit from it.

MY2143

We trade a ton of techs with the Hive after getting contact through Morgan. Sign a treaty, too. Now our weapons are enough to hold off Morgan (well... 2 atk is useable, anyway), and we have police state, which we move to immediately for the increased support. We will walk over Morgan once we're done expanding. Four units per base in support is enough to have a garrison, former, and two army units, and the two police that police state allows means that we can hold off on rec commons or increasing psych rate for awhile. An excellent turn, if I may say so myself.

Oh and fighting Morgan will be like a fight between two bronze leaguers, our armies will be tiny and ridiculously weak (we both have natural negative morale, I think, and neither of us has a military tech setting up).

MY2145

I forgot to take a picture of the Uni scout patrol. Sorry!

We find Zak to the SE. We trade some techs, giving up Centauri Meditation (E3) for probe team tech (D2), since we'll need probes for any fight against Morgan.

MY2147

This Spartan transport didn't worry me until just now, when it turned back around towards me. Surprise attack, in spite of a treaty? Need defense quick, just in case. Santiago is close enough that subversion will be expensive, so it's not really an option. I'll need better weapons to take down a 2-2-1 veteran though. Hoping my mind worms can handle it. All... two of them.

MY2148

Transport turned back around. Sigh. Playing on Transcend is stressful.

MY2149

New Sargasso Sea? Hope so, I like them goodie pods.

MY2150

It is New Sargasso! Only... the first pod I grabbed spawned an isle of the deep (which, when it spawns in fungus, is hidden). Time to send another gun foil over, this guy is dead next turn.

Our nature-loving, mind worm-snuggling, everything-smells-vaguely-like-weed, green police state.

[image loading]

Early lead! Oh Deirdre, you're so easy. To play, I mean. Wait, that's not much better...

Oh, and we're at 11 bases. Gosh, maybe I should restart, monsoon jungle is just unfair sometimes.

deth2munkies

United States4051 Posts

July 25 2011 02:45 GMT

#87

Quite a good start, looking forward to more :D

I just shared the game with all the old friends that used to play it with me (we had a LAN party) so hopefully we'll start playing again (with Hamachi) and have some good times.

Danger_Duck

Burkina Faso571 Posts

July 25 2011 02:50 GMT

#88

Dude...university is worst, haha.
Believers for smaller maps (steal tech overrun everyone)
Morganites for larger (buy everything and everyone)

Edit: For reference, I always play Transcend difficulty.

athief

United States85 Posts

July 25 2011 13:59 GMT

#89

Sweet, a new exhibition game. I never got the hang of Gaians (though I was...10) - could you explain some of your micro? By which I mean the manual Formers, the jockeying with other factions. Your last game was entirely thought-out, it seemed; do you know what techs you're expecting when and do you individually manage which bases are supporting given units?

6xFPCs

United States412 Posts

July 26 2011 04:06 GMT

#90

Been terrible about replying to posts, going to try to be a little more social. Feel free to ask questions, I don't doubt that I go on autopilot a lot and accidentally assume you guys just understand some of the things I do.

On July 25 2011 22:59 athief wrote:
Sweet, a new exhibition game. I never got the hang of Gaians (though I was...10) - could you explain some of your micro? By which I mean the manual Formers, the jockeying with other factions. Your last game was entirely thought-out, it seemed; do you know what techs you're expecting when and do you individually manage which bases are supporting given units?

Former usage is about maximizing former turns. That is, you want the most production benefit you can get for the least time. So for the Gaians, I build roads to connect cities (through flat squares whenever possible, takes only one turn), because the biggest benefit you can get early on is often getting your colony pods to their destinations faster and safer. Then I start planting forests, which coincidentally give the greatest additional production when placed on flat squares. Forests are especially great in the monsoon jungle, but generally are awesome because forests can expand by themselves, meaning you can get free improvements. Oh and place sensors where they can reach two or more cities, to help against wild mind worms. Bonus: sensors can be placed on forests (sensors are mutually exclusive with solars and mines)

Tech-wise, I play blind tech as per standard rules. Since that means you choose your research priorities--by setting any combination of the four tech types as "priority"--I usually just keep in mind what the default settings are and prepare accordingly. So as Uni, I knew I would get chaos guns (8atk) at a time when most others would have 6 atk and 3 def. I could have either pre-built lesser rovers and stockpiled money to upgrade them the moment I got the tech and prototyped it, or just built one and postured a bit, seeing what I could bully out of people because military power for every faction depends on the the most powerful weapon and armor currently in existence. As Gaians, I know I would get speeder tech and foil (sea) tech quickly, so I could've blitzed through Morgan early had I also gotten laser (2atk) tech from someone, or randomly. I did not get it, and I took the jungle before he had a chance to, so I elected not to fight him. I did use the foil tech to push for sea goodie pods, which tend to net a lot of insta-build-base-improvement events for the nearest city. Often, it'll be the same city at the edge of your territory over and over, so you can pump out some serious infrastructure in the space of a few turns. Thus my excitement over finding New Sargasso.

Oh and for dealing with other factions, it depends a lot on situational things such as army strength, tech lead, empire size, current secret project ambitions, money, and relationships with other factions. A lot like dealing with other people. Basically, you can rely on the strength assessment at the bottom to see what position you're in relative to the other leader. If you're weak, be prepared to be nice, or at least agree to trades. If you're strong, don't be afraid to at least try and demand some kind of tribute. Even 50 credits helps, that's a rush-bought rec commons to stop drone riots. If you're equal though, make even trades; techs are always listed as letter-number, with the number indicating what tier tech it is. Generally, an even trade is determined by tier, though you have to be careful not to give away a tech that only you have (can be sold for more money, can be sold to multiple people on the same turn), or that will mess up your secret project plans. Also don't give away weapons in general.
On that note, don't wait for others to contact you. Be proactive about trade relations, because this way you can sell your techs to everyone at once, rather than selling to one guy and having HIM sell to everyone else. And you never know when it's to your benefit to talk to someone, you just have to keep in contact.

tl;dr Use formers for roads and forests, occasional sensor for defense. Blind tech still has direction, know tech trees and plan ahead. Diplomacy complex, but take initiative and try stuff, almost always positive results.

6xFPCs

United States412 Posts

July 28 2011 02:05 GMT

#91

MY2151

Peacekeepers build Merchant Exchange. Great project for big city Lal, +1 energy per square worked, and works for supply crawlers, too.

MY2154

Lal starting Empath Guild, one of the projects we should have, and definitely want. Starting it at Gaia's Landing now, ETA 32 turns. We have no info on Lal so hopefully he doesn't finish it first. It's looking like we're going to have to conquer some of his cities later, so nice of him to build those projects for us.

MY2156

Morgan demands a tech, I propose a trade, he declares vendetta. Well, we knew that Green econ pissed him off, and since he just mentioned that he's at war with Santiago and wanted help against her, now Santiago won't get angry at us. Good stuff. Oh and Yang, Morgan's other enemy, likes us because we're running police state.

and Morgan is running Free Market, so he gets -30% attack against our worms.

Then he mind controls Forest Primeval. Sigh.

MY2157

I retaliate against Morgan and kill two probe teams.

We trade with Santiago and get 4atk, and trade away a tier 2 tech for her maps.

Which shows us where the Peacekeepers are, and Miriam too.

We rush buy an impact rover (4atk), and set cities to produce impact rovers. The two cities closest to Morgan will make garrison units.

MY2158

+30% attack vs Morgan, and his -30% attack, means that mind worms will stomp him.

We also catch another probe team in the open. That's hopefully all the probe teams he current has.

Oh and a rover moves up, scouts that Forest Primeval is entirely undefended, and retakes the city. We plan to give them keys to the city, and steak dinners.

With the map info from Santiago, we waltz up to Lal's nearest city, and start some negotiations. He probably hates us for running police state, we'll see how this goes.

No. No, thank you.
We sell it to him for 25 credits, hopefully he doesn't declare vendetta right now. He doesn't, we leave. Not productive, really, but the only probe tech won't help him much since he's on a different continent. Sure, he could build sea probe teams, but at this early a reactor level (i.e. pre-fusion power), it'll cost him quite a bit of production for a weak (low-morale) probe team. 25 credits will help get out a unit or two a few turns earlier, and we want Morgan subjugated ASAP. Not too bad a deal, in the end.

The war front.

MY2159

Mind worms take down the garrison at Morgan Pharmaceuticals again. Perimeter defense does nothing against psi attack. Rover moves in to take the city. Parade in their honor scheduled for Thursday, mark your calendars.

The war front. I like how I am SO committed to colonization that there's a colony pod moving along the edge of Morganic territory in the east, so that I can grab that monument. That's also the eastern coast, so I can use that city to build sea foils to finally get those pods in New Sargasso (never had the chance to send another foil out that way).

MY2160

Captured an isle of the deep and its one mind worm passenger, this is going straight towards Morgan.

Morgan sends out another probe team, steals an E3 tech. Fine by me. Kills a mind worm, turns out he's not running free market anymore so he's at ±0% psi attack. Gotta protect worms and use only for attack, now.

Lost my main mind worm attacker trying to take Morgan Industries. Also lost an impact rover in the same folly. Oh well, both garrison units (2def) are now at low health, and with our navy shelling the city, they won't be able to heal. Just a matter of time until the cavalry charges in. In related news, the parade has been canceled (since that rover died).

MY2163

Santiago wants to talk, we trade E3 for 3 def tech (C2)--for those paying strict attention, we we're fine with that because Morgan just stole that same E3 and probably sold it to Hive anyway, so its value is lower than usual. We give her a loan (at 100% interest and 100 turn payment plan), and then, at her request, seal a pact of sisterhood with her. Awesome, I can count on a serious military ally against Miriam (who, like Lal, will hate me for running police state).

We steal Industrial Automation (crawlers, planetary transit system) from Morgan. Nice, if we wrap up the war quickly, we'll use PTS (all bases start at 3 pop) to balloon outwards. If we can find a good point where we insta-build a garrison and maintain size 3, we should have zero unhappiness problems, and a crapton of energy and production. Mmmm diplomatic victory.

MY2165

We take Morgan Industries. Morgan down to three cities, none of them much good.

We establish our first sea base, in the strait between us an Santiago. We plan to establish two more, to shut down both sides of this channel, preventing Santiago or Zak from using it. Then again, Santiago is currently our ally, so it's not much of a priority, and she can move through our bases for the time being. Never hurts to plan ahead, though.

MY2166

Good luck, Morgan, with those wild mind worms.

OK I just messed up the save. Damn all the many layers of hell. Thank the heavens and the Royal Mother of the West for autosave.

Morgan submits.

We buy that last jungle city from him.

Then go capture those two mind worms.

War front, aftermath.

MY2168

Santiago requests help against Miriam, I declare vendetta for her. There is probably some kind of inappropriate joke to be made here, but I'll leave it alone. Seriously though, Miriam has been #1 military since time began, this is probably a good time to take her down.

On Transcend, half of everything you build is rec commons. Then half of everything will be hologram theaters. Drones, drones, drones, it's like playing zerg but you want fewer drones, not more.

Long-term? After all those rec commons are done, we're going to start PTS at Gaia's Landing and funnel in crawlers from probably five or six cities. After that, I will push out sea colony pods as much as possible, and hopefully find a crazy balance point where two workers harvest fungus (2-0-0 now, 2-1-0 in a few decades), and the third is an empath (+2 psych +2 energy). So basically we build a crapton of floating cities that give 5 energy (3 at base square, 2 from empath), and eventually will be able to crank out missile needlejets when we get the tech. The monsoon jungle--I mean, forest--should have five cities pumping mind worms, say five worms every three turns. With the close proximity of Lal and Miriam, that may be enough to roll through them and hopefully claim diplomatic victory once Lal's giant cities and Miriam's weirdly expansive fanatic empire have fallen (and her cities become size 3 thanks to PTS).

[image loading]

We rule, they drool. Also we're at the maturity level of a six-year-old.

maryelizbethwinstead

Mexico223 Posts

August 01 2011 14:46 GMT

#92

Mind Worm Deidre has, for me, always been fun and easy. It feels like cheating! I can only win transcend consistently with her and Santiago.

Oh yes, and rec commons. You usually want tanks first, but drones drones drones...

BTW, i'd like advice. How do you repeal the UN charter on transcend? I can never seem to do so...

Mx.DeeP

China25 Posts

August 01 2011 20:53 GMT

#93

Man...this takes me back. The problem with playing against the AI though is that there are a few tricks they absolutely don't know how to use, which makes it pretty easy if you exploit them yourself, even on transcend (read: supply crawlers, pop booms). Anyone here played SMAC multiplayer? It's been really long, but I would re-install in an instant if there were some community mp sessions up

Craton

United States17186 Posts

August 02 2011 14:00 GMT

#94

Poor land rover

Kurumi

Poland6130 Posts

August 07 2011 19:36 GMT

#95

I did not play this game (I played CIV though) but I really enjoy those reports!

Alethios

New Zealand2765 Posts

August 09 2011 01:45 GMT

#96

Finally caught up to the present. Great read

Are you still planning on finishing the battle report 6xFPCs?

Abracadaver

United States21 Posts

August 09 2011 07:52 GMT

#97

This is probably my all-time favorite strategy game, even though I've put more time into the Civilization series. The main problem was that when we played SMAC multiplayer my friends had no chance

so Civ got more play. Thanks for doing these exhibitions, I'm really enjoying them.

Anybody remember when the game was coming out, the website had a really long and drawn-out pre-release backstory thing? Am I just imagining that or did it really happen?

Mx.DeeP

China25 Posts

August 09 2011 13:39 GMT

#98

Yeah, I remember. I think it was printed in the manual or something. I'm not sure, but I thought it was really good at the time. I still remember the whole plot too, which was completely unnecessary to play the game but was pretty cool once you connected the dots. Yang was badass, Lal just wants his wife back, Santiago is some rebel, Morgan isn't even supposed to be there, Zhakarov is scientist man, and Miriam and Deidre go slightly crazy, explaining the state of the game at the start!

Oh, and about the UN charter, it's pretty much the same as anything else. You can buy the votes, but on transcend, it isn't really necessary to repeal it anyway. By the time you get down to 3-4 factions remaining, you're all going to end up with vendetta against everyone else anyway so you might as well use your planet busters when you still have the chance (before everyone gets orbital defense satellites)

If we could get a full MP game, I'm ready to re-install..

kjriwo

New Zealand2 Posts

August 31 2011 02:19 GMT

#99

i love SMAC

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