On July 23 2011 11:59 reverb wrote: Does it bother anyone else that minors were sent to a camp with a political agenda? Is this common?
Sent? Wtf, they we're there at their own accord and it was problably going to be the high point of their summer this year. Ofc that is not how it turned out to be...
For all you who read norwegian, here is a blog posted by someone who got away from the island safely. If enough people want to read it, i may translate it and post it in the same thread.. it's pretty long and very sad. (The title is "The Worst day of my Life")
On July 23 2011 11:59 reverb wrote: Does it bother anyone else that minors were sent to a camp with a political agenda? Is this common?
It's not like they're forced to go there to be indoctrinated. It's just kids who believe in something wanting to be active about it.
You actually never know if their parents forced them to go though :/
"Political" summer camps are (were...) awesome. You participated on interesting workshops on "gender" or workers rights" and stuff like that for two or three hours, and you spent the rest of the time making new friends and just talking. It was an awesome experience for me, and i never met noone who was forced to go to one of them. It's just camping.
On July 23 2011 11:59 reverb wrote: Does it bother anyone else that minors were sent to a camp with a political agenda? Is this common?
It's not like they're forced to go there to be indoctrinated. It's just kids who believe in something wanting to be active about it.
You actually never know if their parents forced them to go though :/
You never know anything for sure. But i KNOW that that is VERY unlikely. What party you belong to in norway is very different from republican vs democrats in the US.
On July 23 2011 11:59 reverb wrote: Does it bother anyone else that minors were sent to a camp with a political agenda? Is this common?
It's not like they're forced to go there to be indoctrinated. It's just kids who believe in something wanting to be active about it.
You actually never know if their parents forced them to go though :/
Lol, don't speak about things you do know nothing about. Norway is pretty free when it comes to political beliefs. I have myself been to this island, and it was purely on my own conviction. I have almost never discussed politics with my parents. You get political active through your friends.
On July 23 2011 12:06 DAVEsc2 wrote: For all you who read norwegian, here is a blog posted by someone who got away from the island safely. If enough people want to read it, i may translate it and post it in the same thread.. it's pretty long and very sad. (The title is "The Worst day of my Life")
My god at that blog post, the worst part must have been the running updates on who were shot, especially in a situation where you're bound to know most of those names. Holy shit.
On July 23 2011 11:59 reverb wrote: Does it bother anyone else that minors were sent to a camp with a political agenda? Is this common?
It's not like they're forced to go there to be indoctrinated. It's just kids who believe in something wanting to be active about it.
You actually never know if their parents forced them to go though :/
You realise it's just like any other summer camp, just that instead of being focused around say, scouting or "space" (as I've heard are popular in the U.S), it's focused around politics with people who are likeminded.
On July 23 2011 12:06 DAVEsc2 wrote: For all you who read norwegian, here is a blog posted by someone who got away from the island safely. If enough people want to read it, i may translate it and post it in the same thread.. it's pretty long and very sad. (The title is "The Worst day of my Life")
My god at that blog post, the worst part must have been the running updates on who were shot, especially in a situation where you're bound to know most of those names. Holy shit.
Yeah, it's pretty insane.. I can't even imagine how hard it must have been for them. Many of them saw their friends getting shot in the head, and they really have to just escape and try to be safe. It's really sickening.
On July 23 2011 12:06 DAVEsc2 wrote: For all you who read norwegian, here is a blog posted by someone who got away from the island safely. If enough people want to read it, i may translate it and post it in the same thread.. it's pretty long and very sad. (The title is "The Worst day of my Life")
My god at that blog post, the worst part must have been the running updates on who were shot, especially in a situation where you're bound to know most of those names. Holy shit.
Yeah, it's pretty insane.. I can't even imagine how hard it must have been for them. Many of them saw their friends getting shot in the head, and they really have to just escape and try to be safe. It's really sickening.
I think I'll set about translating it, might give people better insight into how it was, especially everyone who hasn't been able to see the interviews we've had going on TV. Not like I can sleep anyways lol.
On July 23 2011 11:26 FallDownMarigold wrote: I'm curious how the death toll rose so quickly from 10 to 80 at Utoya. Were police just waiting a while to confirm? Quite a sudden change! I seriously don't see how this man can get anything less than either execution or life behind solitary bars... even if Norway's capital punishment system doesn't currently include it
Well, as someone said there was pretty much nowhere to run unless you started to swim. He was alone there with the guns and the island wasn't that big. The "Swat" team arrived 1-2+ hours late. I think many people might have drowned.
Alright wait. Wait. He was left to rampage for that much time? I was under the impression he had quickly rounded up a group by calling them over as a policeman. HOW WAS HE LEFT WITH SO MUCH TIME? Are you serious? He had up to TWO HOURS before "SWAT" arrived?
Okay I've gone from remorseful to angry. Norway's police system is partially at blame here, sorry, maybe I'm speaking in anger, but that is downright unacceptable. With the bombings having just happened just prior, there should have been reaction teams or whatever you want to call them on standby. Should have been a within-minutes response. That would explain it, sure, but that does not by any means let Norway's police off the hook. Wow, I don't even know what to say, I'm gonna go ahead and stop and let more facts unravel before making any judgments.
It's a 30-45 min drive from Oslo to get there. And it's on an island where so the police needs to take a boat to get there. They could prolly take an helicopter aswell but I would imagine that would have some risks aswell. Please do not talk out of your ass and ask for a withing minute response when that is clearly not possible. Im sure they did what they could as fast as they could. And also remember that ALOT of resources were tied up at the boming in Oslo.
It was a political event. Why the fuck weren't there any cops and/or security on the island?
This baffles me as well. A crowd of 700 and no precautions are made. Its easy to spot mistakes after horrible events have happened though.
It's a youth camp for young politically interested kids.. nothing more.. Security shouldnt be needed on a high level there..
It's possibly the biggest, softest target that could possibly exist. There will always be predators and there are predators everywhere. There is no reason not to expect this in Norway. Norway has less than .02% the population of the US. There is no reason to think that just because it has never happened before that it will never happen.
I'm not saying there should have been a SWAT team on that island or anything like that. A couple adults concealing pistols and a rifle locked in a safe and everyone on that island would have had a much better chance of survival.
What you suggest goes directly against the Scandinavian mentality and if that day arrives where that is ever deemed necessary it will be a very sad day. There is a reason why Norwegian cops seldomly wear their firearms - it is simply just not needed.