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We need a new policy; Lynch all Roleclaimers. Don't do this
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United States4714 Posts
Amen to that.
Seriously do not claim VT ever it is incredibly stupid and damages the town.
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wtf, what's wrong about roleclaiming green D-:
anyone could do this, it's completely pointless, I thought everyone knows that, I just wanted to back up my votingbehavior with my task to lynch moblike style :-/
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Claiming Scout looks suspicious to me, I would ask Pyro to spycheck them.. Wait, if they're really Scouts we won't get anything.. and if they're disguised... We don't have such Pyros! MAGGOTS!
Also, Snipers should get lynched before roleclaimers. Like, those Australlian Pit Dwellers can live entire month without food and water!
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
Lets get rid of the role claiming now.
+ Show Spoiler +
You are Captain planet
You have come to arkham to put a end to its highly irradiated waste it produces however you was caught in the conflict and now the planeteers have been captured by the Arkham Staff. For everyone you kill you gain one of your abilities back. When you get all five power rings you gain the ability to kill all remaining scum and proceed to destroy the waste the prison produced.
Don't believe role claims and lets stop discussing them. Role/Name claims lead to scum slipping by in lylo which ends badly for us, Judge on their merit not what they claim to be.
I hate role claims >.>
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On July 18 2011 15:35 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 14:34 Curu wrote:
lol, so you basically dropped in to tell us you're going to be useless?
Great. A VT claim doesn't help Town at all either. You're just introducing yourself as mislynch bait or gambiting Mafia now or a whole load of other WIFOM crap. Can you provide a single pro Town reason why you would claim VT?
I hope you're just drunk and not really going to be a destructive force like this if you really are Town. wow fuck off you're my #1 target right now. nothing i've posted has been destructive. i'm not drunk 24/7 and i can make really insightful posts when i put my mind to it. right now you look desperate to make someone look bad, that's clear scum behavior to me. i claimed VT because i have nothing to hide. when i'm town i play extremely pro-town. i don't try to blend in, i don't try to conceal powers or fake claim. i just play town. you'll find me doing that this game. Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 14:39 Curu wrote:On July 18 2011 14:37 redFF wrote:On July 18 2011 14:34 Curu wrote:
lol, so you basically dropped in to tell us you're going to be useless?
Great. A VT claim doesn't help Town at all either. You're just introducing yourself as mislynch bait or gambiting Mafia now or a whole load of other WIFOM crap. Can you provide a single pro Town reason why you would claim VT?
I hope you're just drunk and not really going to be a destructive force like this if you really are Town. lol read XL  Be a dear and summarize for me? I'm inclined to believe he's Town simply because he had 2 absolutely useless posts that basically said "I'm not going to be actively playing lulz" in World at War 2 Mafia too when he was Town. But he's still going to be prime mislynch bait going into later game. Sigh. i owned the fuck out of xl2 by tunneling the godfather from day 1 ww2 was hosted by my dear friend caller which i dearly wanted to play. unfortunately it started the same day i got kicked out of my house and had no internet through the duration of it. i won't apologize at all for that, it was completely out of my control. you suck.
And he's at it again...
I didn't realize that he'd signed up for this game otherwise I probably would have /outted.
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On July 18 2011 15:45 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 14:49 Pyo wrote:On July 18 2011 13:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On July 18 2011 13:14 Pyo wrote:On July 18 2011 10:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ok, so let's get this started! First things first, let's lay out some things we want to achieve, and some guidelines. A pro-town atmosphereThis normally goes without saying, but it often bears repeating. If we want to catch scum, we need to have the proper environment for scum hunting and for communicating with each other. This means a couple things: - Promoting scum hunting.
- Not having pointless arguments
- Actively contributing
- All that jazz
Basically, we want to keep the thread as clean as possible, because chaos best serves mafia, not town. If you really don't know what to do, there's town guides. I'm not going to write one here, because I'm too lazy, and don't consider myself experienced enough to try. However, I am going to go through the three points above, as I think they are very important. We always want people to scum-hunt. There's never an excuse not to scum-hunt; everyone can do it. This provides us with many benefits. First, it's the primary method for actually finding scum. It also means that people have to give their actual thoughts, and have to come up with things beyond "I agree". This gives us information, and information is good. It lets us know what you're thinking, and it puts pressure on mafia to have to contribute. Also, forcing mafia to scum-hunt means that there's a good chance of catching them just based on their analysis, because it's hard to find people who are scummy, when you know they aren't scum. Next, we want to avoid bickering. This goes hand in hand with keeping the thread clean. This is different from actually debating with people, and you should be able to tell the difference between rationality, and NO U. If anyone is having a pointless argument, they will be asked to stop. It doesn't help town, only mafia. Lastly, we want people to contribute. There's a posting limit of 5 posts per day/night, but that doesn't give you permission to skirt that limit. It's easy for mafia to hide amongst lurkers, and beyond that, lurkers are nearly impossible to analyze. So, contribute. This doesn't mean make tons of pointless one-liners, it means providing actual thoughts, analysis, and content. You can do it, I believe in you. And if you don't, we can always just ask a vig to shoot you. We don't want people to lurk. CluesThere's clues in this game. However, all clue analysis MUST MUST MUST be backed up by post analysis. Before you post the clue analysis too. The reason for this, is that clues will most likely point to all kills. this means that some of the clues are going to point to vigs, some will point to third parties, and the others will point to mafia. Accidentally outing a vig because you solved the clues about them is bad. So, if you think someone's attached to a clue, go back and re-read their posts. If you think they look scummy, then post an analysis that contains the clue analysis. If you think they're town, just hold onto your analysis. Clue-analysis should always be used to supplement an actual behavioural analysis. It should never be the main point for calling someone scummy. In other words: Clues pointing towards a person does not equal scum. Third PartiesLooking at the third parties, here's what we want: -We want Joker to die. -We want Batman to kill Joker. -This means that Batman wins, and should hopefully be removed from the game, also removing Ra’as Al Ghul who can no longer achieve his victory condition. This is the optimal way the third party part of the game will go. We want Batman to kill Joker before Ra'as can kill Batman, so that we don't have to deal with Joker ourselves. So, if you think someone's acting like an SK, don't be afraid to point it out, as this should help Batman achieve his win-con, and let us get on with the rest of the game. If Joker is lynched, is Batman removed from the game?
If Batman is removed from the game, is Ra'as removed from the game?Thoughts? Disagreements? Let's get this rolling. On July 18 2011 12:39 CreamyButter wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 18 2011 10:37 Curu wrote:
CreamyButter, a question for you if I may. Taking the setup into consideration, how would you propose to play as Mafia this game if you were indeed to receive such a role? Ummm. Well. First order of business is of course ensuring that all mafia members are actively contributing to the thread. For the newer players, I might consider giving them a talking point, or else assigning one mafia to make an inconsequential "slip" in the thread, so that the less experienced mafia members can analyze properly without feeling guilty and without actually slipping up. I would pick the newest players and make sure they know what they're doing, basically, and if not I would help them compose their posts before they post them. After all mafia members are actively posting, I would try to shift the demographic being targeted in the thread to something less dangerous, such as lynching all lurkers. Also, since there seems to be a zodiac/veteran list going up, I would make sure to elect a figurehead boss, so that the boss doesn't end up on the list. From there, use PMs to harass/poke people and figure out what roles they have/infiltrate their circles >.> Avoid hitting vets, figure out where the hatter's bombs are before killing them, hit medics, boring stuff etc. I would be actively PMing, to make sure the town doesn't get up to anything worthwhile. Possibly coordinate PMs with other mafia members. A priority is reaching out to the insane inmates, and integrating them into the mafia circle. With no rolechecker, though, I'm not sure how mafia would do this. I guess they would get the DT to check on someone who isn't in the known mafia circle, and if the DT claims that he's seeing red, then the guy being checked is probably insane because no 3rd party would set themselves as red. For this reason I might consider not killing DTs right away as long as he's being properly manipulated. Batman is useless because he can't claim and he can't reveal his findings, though. From what I can tell, it is in mafia's best interest to get the 3rd parties lynched. The 3rd parties might randomly kill a mafia member at night, and might eat up night hits, and it is impossible to cooperate with them since they can't claim. I guess I would just leave random hints everywhere that someone (someone who isn't mafia) is Batman and hope he dies. As a 3rd party player: It seems to be in Joker's best interest for the game to end as quickly as possible, so he would keep mafia alive at first, so that their KP is higher. Batman and Ra'as, on the other hand, want to keep the game running longer, so that they have time to hunt. As Batman I would default to rolechecking, and killing only when either confirmed or if one side seems like it's winning. As Ra'as I would target lurkers/useless seeming people until I get a read. There seems to be enough vigilante advice, so maybe it's time to stop with that. As for DT advice though, On July 18 2011 11:32 notasmurf wrote:
It's not who the veteran players are that we should be concerned about. It's who the new players are.
These are the people that we should focus our DT check on, and take a closer look during scumhunting.
By no means am I saying we should lynch new players instead of old ones. Obviously we need to lynch the best person possible. But what I'm saying is that they tend to get overlooked.
I agree that DTs should check the newer, more easy ignorable players, instead of the vets. Since as a DT you can only trust a red reading, there's no way to try and build a circle around yourself. It would also be much easier to get a newer, inactive, partially illiterate player lynched than an old one. So check people that you think yourself capable of actually getting lynched i guess. I have to study/class, will be back later today. I don't really know how to give/identify good analysis, but I'm fully open to being tested/asked stupid questions to see if I screw up, so feel free to send me PMs. I might be a "newb" but from my limited experience, pretty much every time someone comes out with one of these massive long policy spam posts, they've been scum. Just sayin' Meh, it's a null-tell again. Examples, GM in Real-Time Mafia, Kavdragon in Pick Your Power Insane. Both making long posts trying to direct town at the beginning, both town. Also, if you think my post is spam, please point out how. If you read it, I specifically say I'm not going to write a general how to play town guide, just give a little bit of general advice against what's made town lose in about three of the last four games I've played, and then talked about how to use clues properly and that killing Joker is a high priority for town. It's not even that massive either, haha. All you did in your post was herpa-derp the premise of the game. It's not meaningful in any way shape or form. I realize that people can meta-game that shit by always posting that crap at the beginning of their games so that whenever they are mafia it doesn't look so suspicious, but in general it's a really bad way to play if you really are town. Are you sure about that? I'm starting to question if you read posts or just skim through them. Also, the premise of the game is to kill mafia. If you want, I can go find the games where I won as mafia exactly because of the things I mentioned in my opening post. I can also reference you to a clue game where I used clues only, with no backing analysis, to win as an SK, thus the warning. The next bit is me analyzing the set-up a little, and bringing things up that no one mentioned yet about how there's a priority to killing off the third parties. That post is only useless if I don't hold people to what I wrote or make people follow what I said. So, unless you want the examples, I'm done with this. Look at my second point if you want the reason why.
Do you really think that everyone is going to read every single post in detail - especially super long posts - in a 40-person game where half of the players have been described as "newbs" ? All people are going to do is skim a post get a feel for whether it is pro-town or not. And as has been declared by some people, they think you're pro-town. I, however, disagree as mafia often make those long policy like guidance posts at the start of games.
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United States4714 Posts
On July 18 2011 17:52 Pyo wrote:
Do you really think that everyone is going to read every single post in detail - especially super long posts - in a 40-person game where half of the players have been described as "newbs" ? All people are going to do is skim a post get a feel for whether it is pro-town or not. And as has been declared by some people, they think you're pro-town. I, however, disagree as mafia often make those long policy like guidance posts at the start of games.
If people actually want to play the game well they will read every post. Many good players will read the entire thread multiple times. I know you didn't explicitly state that you don't read every post, but it sounds like you don't. And really there is no excuse for not reading every post at this point in the game. There are only about 7 pages since pre game. The thread is not moving quickly at all for a game of this size.
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On July 18 2011 17:41 Pyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 15:35 gtrsrs wrote:On July 18 2011 14:34 Curu wrote:
lol, so you basically dropped in to tell us you're going to be useless?
Great. A VT claim doesn't help Town at all either. You're just introducing yourself as mislynch bait or gambiting Mafia now or a whole load of other WIFOM crap. Can you provide a single pro Town reason why you would claim VT?
I hope you're just drunk and not really going to be a destructive force like this if you really are Town. wow fuck off you're my #1 target right now. nothing i've posted has been destructive. i'm not drunk 24/7 and i can make really insightful posts when i put my mind to it. right now you look desperate to make someone look bad, that's clear scum behavior to me. i claimed VT because i have nothing to hide. when i'm town i play extremely pro-town. i don't try to blend in, i don't try to conceal powers or fake claim. i just play town. you'll find me doing that this game. On July 18 2011 14:39 Curu wrote:On July 18 2011 14:37 redFF wrote:On July 18 2011 14:34 Curu wrote:
lol, so you basically dropped in to tell us you're going to be useless?
Great. A VT claim doesn't help Town at all either. You're just introducing yourself as mislynch bait or gambiting Mafia now or a whole load of other WIFOM crap. Can you provide a single pro Town reason why you would claim VT?
I hope you're just drunk and not really going to be a destructive force like this if you really are Town. lol read XL Be a dear and summarize for me? I'm inclined to believe he's Town simply because he had 2 absolutely useless posts that basically said "I'm not going to be actively playing lulz" in World at War 2 Mafia too when he was Town. But he's still going to be prime mislynch bait going into later game. Sigh. i owned the fuck out of xl2 by tunneling the godfather from day 1 ww2 was hosted by my dear friend caller which i dearly wanted to play. unfortunately it started the same day i got kicked out of my house and had no internet through the duration of it. i won't apologize at all for that, it was completely out of my control. you suck. And he's at it again... I didn't realize that he'd signed up for this game otherwise I probably would have /outted.
yea, gtrsrs, as a townie, is more dangerous for town, than anything else :D
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I don't like the ongoing trend of claiming green. It serves no purpose if you're town.
I'm voting coagulation for now. Mig requested a list of the veteran players, there was no need to comment on everybody on the roster. Also coagulation has a lot of one-liners:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 18 2011 15:11 Coagulation wrote:
Hi kenpachi On July 18 2011 14:34 Coagulation wrote:
isnt gtrsrs the guy that made Kenpachi RAGEQUIT? On July 18 2011 14:22 Coagulation wrote:
Silence Newb On July 18 2011 12:46 Coagulation wrote:
If scum need any tips on how to play feel free to PM any questions.
Seems to me that he is a scum who is afraid of not making the posting margin.
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YES! No mercy for leetle kart , push it team , together to victory !
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Kurumi, I have a problem with the way you're posting. I liked your attempt at pro-town in the merc mini game far better, now you've just defaulted to trolling.
I have a problem with a few others as well:
On July 18 2011 13:05 CreamyButter wrote:
If I in fact said anything of consequence, well, sorry, I guess I'll stop now. My reasoning was that all new players on the mafia will already be getting help from the vets on the mafia, a new player like me posting superficial advice will only serve two purposes:
1. I might write something scummy and slip up
2. A new, town-oriented player might actually learn something they hadn't thought of, which helps us out.
Please stop pointing fingers with nothing else in the post, it seems pretty useless. Either explain why what I said was scummy, make a plan (even a stupid one, as a trap for agree-ers), or think of better test questions to ask.
Establishing yourself as bad/new is usually a bad idea from town perspective, if we're to listen to what you have to say, then you should probably try to convince us you're intelligent and confident.
More of the same:
On July 18 2011 12:39 CreamyButter wrote:
I have to study/class, will be back later today. I don't really know how to give/identify good analysis, but I'm fully open to being tested/asked stupid questions to see if I screw up, so feel free to send me PMs.
And you're even admitting that some of your posts are going to be fluff to fill up the posting standard. Shape up man.
On July 18 2011 11:02 CreamyButter wrote:
Maybe it's because I only have 35 posts, but 5 posts a day seems like a hell of a lot, and I'm predicting a ton of spam/filler posts just to hit the minimum (I'm kind of freaking out about getting modkilled if I forget one evening lol). Maybe we should tag our posts like /analysis or /filler? Since I feel like if people are all forced to make 5 posts a day, there might be a lot of red herrings from tired townies who just want the day to end, and this way we can sort of manually adjust the posting minimum to like 3 "real" posts a day. Or 8 or whatever.
@Curu
Give me a sec to think about it. From what I understand the mafia just sort of chill, analyze/snipe blues, give confusing/chaos-inspiring analysis, and attempt to plant themselves into town circles. Not sure if there are any strategies that would be particular to this game yet, but will totally get back to you on that.
Lurkers and people who never contribute *cough* Kenpachi *cough* are excellent vigi fodder.
Nisani201: Can you do your action list thing like you did in RTM please?
And for the grand finale, an old friend:
On July 18 2011 13:38 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm going to start off by saying something super-scummy, followed up by a tunnel of an inactive, and wrap it up with some insanely scummy comment that gets me lynched in the 11th hour.
Anyone object?
Sarcasm about you getting on the lynch platform early is a pretty good way to post without content. Come on VE.
As for CreamyButter:
##Vote CreamyButter
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On July 18 2011 17:41 Pyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 15:35 gtrsrs wrote:On July 18 2011 14:34 Curu wrote:
lol, so you basically dropped in to tell us you're going to be useless?
Great. A VT claim doesn't help Town at all either. You're just introducing yourself as mislynch bait or gambiting Mafia now or a whole load of other WIFOM crap. Can you provide a single pro Town reason why you would claim VT?
I hope you're just drunk and not really going to be a destructive force like this if you really are Town. wow fuck off you're my #1 target right now. nothing i've posted has been destructive. i'm not drunk 24/7 and i can make really insightful posts when i put my mind to it. right now you look desperate to make someone look bad, that's clear scum behavior to me. i claimed VT because i have nothing to hide. when i'm town i play extremely pro-town. i don't try to blend in, i don't try to conceal powers or fake claim. i just play town. you'll find me doing that this game. On July 18 2011 14:39 Curu wrote:On July 18 2011 14:37 redFF wrote:On July 18 2011 14:34 Curu wrote:
lol, so you basically dropped in to tell us you're going to be useless?
Great. A VT claim doesn't help Town at all either. You're just introducing yourself as mislynch bait or gambiting Mafia now or a whole load of other WIFOM crap. Can you provide a single pro Town reason why you would claim VT?
I hope you're just drunk and not really going to be a destructive force like this if you really are Town. lol read XL Be a dear and summarize for me? I'm inclined to believe he's Town simply because he had 2 absolutely useless posts that basically said "I'm not going to be actively playing lulz" in World at War 2 Mafia too when he was Town. But he's still going to be prime mislynch bait going into later game. Sigh. i owned the fuck out of xl2 by tunneling the godfather from day 1 ww2 was hosted by my dear friend caller which i dearly wanted to play. unfortunately it started the same day i got kicked out of my house and had no internet through the duration of it. i won't apologize at all for that, it was completely out of my control. you suck. And he's at it again... I didn't realize that he'd signed up for this game otherwise I probably would have /outted.
yo bro
i made a mistake in mmmmmmmvic23
i said sorry
you can';t blame me
xedat's half-english was super super super fucking mafia
don't hate the player hat the game BRO
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CreamyButter posting mafia strategy, especially when directly asked to, doesn't mean anything. I find it interesting though that you, as a new player, have put so much thought into the topic.
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gtrsr, claiming VT is extremely bad, so I trust that to be a lie. After i read Coags list, and generall spamness, but imo we already got a better target, Pyo
On July 18 2011 13:14 Pyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 10:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ok, so let's get this started! First things first, let's lay out some things we want to achieve, and some guidelines. A pro-town atmosphereThis normally goes without saying, but it often bears repeating. If we want to catch scum, we need to have the proper environment for scum hunting and for communicating with each other. This means a couple things: - Promoting scum hunting.
- Not having pointless arguments
- Actively contributing
- All that jazz
Basically, we want to keep the thread as clean as possible, because chaos best serves mafia, not town. If you really don't know what to do, there's town guides. I'm not going to write one here, because I'm too lazy, and don't consider myself experienced enough to try. However, I am going to go through the three points above, as I think they are very important. We always want people to scum-hunt. There's never an excuse not to scum-hunt; everyone can do it. This provides us with many benefits. First, it's the primary method for actually finding scum. It also means that people have to give their actual thoughts, and have to come up with things beyond "I agree". This gives us information, and information is good. It lets us know what you're thinking, and it puts pressure on mafia to have to contribute. Also, forcing mafia to scum-hunt means that there's a good chance of catching them just based on their analysis, because it's hard to find people who are scummy, when you know they aren't scum. Next, we want to avoid bickering. This goes hand in hand with keeping the thread clean. This is different from actually debating with people, and you should be able to tell the difference between rationality, and NO U. If anyone is having a pointless argument, they will be asked to stop. It doesn't help town, only mafia. Lastly, we want people to contribute. There's a posting limit of 5 posts per day/night, but that doesn't give you permission to skirt that limit. It's easy for mafia to hide amongst lurkers, and beyond that, lurkers are nearly impossible to analyze. So, contribute. This doesn't mean make tons of pointless one-liners, it means providing actual thoughts, analysis, and content. You can do it, I believe in you. And if you don't, we can always just ask a vig to shoot you. We don't want people to lurk. CluesThere's clues in this game. However, all clue analysis MUST MUST MUST be backed up by post analysis. Before you post the clue analysis too. The reason for this, is that clues will most likely point to all kills. this means that some of the clues are going to point to vigs, some will point to third parties, and the others will point to mafia. Accidentally outing a vig because you solved the clues about them is bad. So, if you think someone's attached to a clue, go back and re-read their posts. If you think they look scummy, then post an analysis that contains the clue analysis. If you think they're town, just hold onto your analysis. Clue-analysis should always be used to supplement an actual behavioural analysis. It should never be the main point for calling someone scummy. In other words: Clues pointing towards a person does not equal scum. Third PartiesLooking at the third parties, here's what we want: -We want Joker to die. -We want Batman to kill Joker. -This means that Batman wins, and should hopefully be removed from the game, also removing Ra’as Al Ghul who can no longer achieve his victory condition. This is the optimal way the third party part of the game will go. We want Batman to kill Joker before Ra'as can kill Batman, so that we don't have to deal with Joker ourselves. So, if you think someone's acting like an SK, don't be afraid to point it out, as this should help Batman achieve his win-con, and let us get on with the rest of the game. If Joker is lynched, is Batman removed from the game?
If Batman is removed from the game, is Ra'as removed from the game?Thoughts? Disagreements? Let's get this rolling. Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 12:39 CreamyButter wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 18 2011 10:37 Curu wrote:
CreamyButter, a question for you if I may. Taking the setup into consideration, how would you propose to play as Mafia this game if you were indeed to receive such a role? Ummm. Well. First order of business is of course ensuring that all mafia members are actively contributing to the thread. For the newer players, I might consider giving them a talking point, or else assigning one mafia to make an inconsequential "slip" in the thread, so that the less experienced mafia members can analyze properly without feeling guilty and without actually slipping up. I would pick the newest players and make sure they know what they're doing, basically, and if not I would help them compose their posts before they post them. After all mafia members are actively posting, I would try to shift the demographic being targeted in the thread to something less dangerous, such as lynching all lurkers. Also, since there seems to be a zodiac/veteran list going up, I would make sure to elect a figurehead boss, so that the boss doesn't end up on the list. From there, use PMs to harass/poke people and figure out what roles they have/infiltrate their circles >.> Avoid hitting vets, figure out where the hatter's bombs are before killing them, hit medics, boring stuff etc. I would be actively PMing, to make sure the town doesn't get up to anything worthwhile. Possibly coordinate PMs with other mafia members. A priority is reaching out to the insane inmates, and integrating them into the mafia circle. With no rolechecker, though, I'm not sure how mafia would do this. I guess they would get the DT to check on someone who isn't in the known mafia circle, and if the DT claims that he's seeing red, then the guy being checked is probably insane because no 3rd party would set themselves as red. For this reason I might consider not killing DTs right away as long as he's being properly manipulated. Batman is useless because he can't claim and he can't reveal his findings, though. From what I can tell, it is in mafia's best interest to get the 3rd parties lynched. The 3rd parties might randomly kill a mafia member at night, and might eat up night hits, and it is impossible to cooperate with them since they can't claim. I guess I would just leave random hints everywhere that someone (someone who isn't mafia) is Batman and hope he dies. As a 3rd party player: It seems to be in Joker's best interest for the game to end as quickly as possible, so he would keep mafia alive at first, so that their KP is higher. Batman and Ra'as, on the other hand, want to keep the game running longer, so that they have time to hunt. As Batman I would default to rolechecking, and killing only when either confirmed or if one side seems like it's winning. As Ra'as I would target lurkers/useless seeming people until I get a read. There seems to be enough vigilante advice, so maybe it's time to stop with that. As for DT advice though, On July 18 2011 11:32 notasmurf wrote:
It's not who the veteran players are that we should be concerned about. It's who the new players are.
These are the people that we should focus our DT check on, and take a closer look during scumhunting.
By no means am I saying we should lynch new players instead of old ones. Obviously we need to lynch the best person possible. But what I'm saying is that they tend to get overlooked.
I agree that DTs should check the newer, more easy ignorable players, instead of the vets. Since as a DT you can only trust a red reading, there's no way to try and build a circle around yourself. It would also be much easier to get a newer, inactive, partially illiterate player lynched than an old one. So check people that you think yourself capable of actually getting lynched i guess. I have to study/class, will be back later today. I don't really know how to give/identify good analysis, but I'm fully open to being tested/asked stupid questions to see if I screw up, so feel free to send me PMs. I might be a "newb" but from my limited experience, pretty much every time someone comes out with one of these massive long policy spam posts, they've been scum. Just sayin'
lets start with his worst post, he makes some terrible accusation, and then goes on to back of within 2 words. That is super scummy. Second of all all your accusation is even more terrible then my first sentence would show, long posts= scum? get out.
On July 18 2011 14:49 Pyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 13:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On July 18 2011 13:14 Pyo wrote:On July 18 2011 10:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ok, so let's get this started! First things first, let's lay out some things we want to achieve, and some guidelines. A pro-town atmosphereThis normally goes without saying, but it often bears repeating. If we want to catch scum, we need to have the proper environment for scum hunting and for communicating with each other. This means a couple things: - Promoting scum hunting.
- Not having pointless arguments
- Actively contributing
- All that jazz
Basically, we want to keep the thread as clean as possible, because chaos best serves mafia, not town. If you really don't know what to do, there's town guides. I'm not going to write one here, because I'm too lazy, and don't consider myself experienced enough to try. However, I am going to go through the three points above, as I think they are very important. We always want people to scum-hunt. There's never an excuse not to scum-hunt; everyone can do it. This provides us with many benefits. First, it's the primary method for actually finding scum. It also means that people have to give their actual thoughts, and have to come up with things beyond "I agree". This gives us information, and information is good. It lets us know what you're thinking, and it puts pressure on mafia to have to contribute. Also, forcing mafia to scum-hunt means that there's a good chance of catching them just based on their analysis, because it's hard to find people who are scummy, when you know they aren't scum. Next, we want to avoid bickering. This goes hand in hand with keeping the thread clean. This is different from actually debating with people, and you should be able to tell the difference between rationality, and NO U. If anyone is having a pointless argument, they will be asked to stop. It doesn't help town, only mafia. Lastly, we want people to contribute. There's a posting limit of 5 posts per day/night, but that doesn't give you permission to skirt that limit. It's easy for mafia to hide amongst lurkers, and beyond that, lurkers are nearly impossible to analyze. So, contribute. This doesn't mean make tons of pointless one-liners, it means providing actual thoughts, analysis, and content. You can do it, I believe in you. And if you don't, we can always just ask a vig to shoot you. We don't want people to lurk. CluesThere's clues in this game. However, all clue analysis MUST MUST MUST be backed up by post analysis. Before you post the clue analysis too. The reason for this, is that clues will most likely point to all kills. this means that some of the clues are going to point to vigs, some will point to third parties, and the others will point to mafia. Accidentally outing a vig because you solved the clues about them is bad. So, if you think someone's attached to a clue, go back and re-read their posts. If you think they look scummy, then post an analysis that contains the clue analysis. If you think they're town, just hold onto your analysis. Clue-analysis should always be used to supplement an actual behavioural analysis. It should never be the main point for calling someone scummy. In other words: Clues pointing towards a person does not equal scum. Third PartiesLooking at the third parties, here's what we want: -We want Joker to die. -We want Batman to kill Joker. -This means that Batman wins, and should hopefully be removed from the game, also removing Ra’as Al Ghul who can no longer achieve his victory condition. This is the optimal way the third party part of the game will go. We want Batman to kill Joker before Ra'as can kill Batman, so that we don't have to deal with Joker ourselves. So, if you think someone's acting like an SK, don't be afraid to point it out, as this should help Batman achieve his win-con, and let us get on with the rest of the game. If Joker is lynched, is Batman removed from the game?
If Batman is removed from the game, is Ra'as removed from the game?Thoughts? Disagreements? Let's get this rolling. On July 18 2011 12:39 CreamyButter wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 18 2011 10:37 Curu wrote:
CreamyButter, a question for you if I may. Taking the setup into consideration, how would you propose to play as Mafia this game if you were indeed to receive such a role? Ummm. Well. First order of business is of course ensuring that all mafia members are actively contributing to the thread. For the newer players, I might consider giving them a talking point, or else assigning one mafia to make an inconsequential "slip" in the thread, so that the less experienced mafia members can analyze properly without feeling guilty and without actually slipping up. I would pick the newest players and make sure they know what they're doing, basically, and if not I would help them compose their posts before they post them. After all mafia members are actively posting, I would try to shift the demographic being targeted in the thread to something less dangerous, such as lynching all lurkers. Also, since there seems to be a zodiac/veteran list going up, I would make sure to elect a figurehead boss, so that the boss doesn't end up on the list. From there, use PMs to harass/poke people and figure out what roles they have/infiltrate their circles >.> Avoid hitting vets, figure out where the hatter's bombs are before killing them, hit medics, boring stuff etc. I would be actively PMing, to make sure the town doesn't get up to anything worthwhile. Possibly coordinate PMs with other mafia members. A priority is reaching out to the insane inmates, and integrating them into the mafia circle. With no rolechecker, though, I'm not sure how mafia would do this. I guess they would get the DT to check on someone who isn't in the known mafia circle, and if the DT claims that he's seeing red, then the guy being checked is probably insane because no 3rd party would set themselves as red. For this reason I might consider not killing DTs right away as long as he's being properly manipulated. Batman is useless because he can't claim and he can't reveal his findings, though. From what I can tell, it is in mafia's best interest to get the 3rd parties lynched. The 3rd parties might randomly kill a mafia member at night, and might eat up night hits, and it is impossible to cooperate with them since they can't claim. I guess I would just leave random hints everywhere that someone (someone who isn't mafia) is Batman and hope he dies. As a 3rd party player: It seems to be in Joker's best interest for the game to end as quickly as possible, so he would keep mafia alive at first, so that their KP is higher. Batman and Ra'as, on the other hand, want to keep the game running longer, so that they have time to hunt. As Batman I would default to rolechecking, and killing only when either confirmed or if one side seems like it's winning. As Ra'as I would target lurkers/useless seeming people until I get a read. There seems to be enough vigilante advice, so maybe it's time to stop with that. As for DT advice though, On July 18 2011 11:32 notasmurf wrote:
It's not who the veteran players are that we should be concerned about. It's who the new players are.
These are the people that we should focus our DT check on, and take a closer look during scumhunting.
By no means am I saying we should lynch new players instead of old ones. Obviously we need to lynch the best person possible. But what I'm saying is that they tend to get overlooked.
I agree that DTs should check the newer, more easy ignorable players, instead of the vets. Since as a DT you can only trust a red reading, there's no way to try and build a circle around yourself. It would also be much easier to get a newer, inactive, partially illiterate player lynched than an old one. So check people that you think yourself capable of actually getting lynched i guess. I have to study/class, will be back later today. I don't really know how to give/identify good analysis, but I'm fully open to being tested/asked stupid questions to see if I screw up, so feel free to send me PMs. I might be a "newb" but from my limited experience, pretty much every time someone comes out with one of these massive long policy spam posts, they've been scum. Just sayin' Meh, it's a null-tell again. Examples, GM in Real-Time Mafia, Kavdragon in Pick Your Power Insane. Both making long posts trying to direct town at the beginning, both town. Also, if you think my post is spam, please point out how. If you read it, I specifically say I'm not going to write a general how to play town guide, just give a little bit of general advice against what's made town lose in about three of the last four games I've played, and then talked about how to use clues properly and that killing Joker is a high priority for town. It's not even that massive either, haha. All you did in your post was herpa-derp the premise of the game. It's not meaningful in any way shape or form. I realize that people can meta-game that shit by always posting that crap at the beginning of their games so that whenever they are mafia it doesn't look so suspicious, but in general it's a really bad way to play if you really are town.
So if long posts happen in any other game and theyre town, that doesnt mean anything since they were just setting up for this game? That line of reasoning is preeeeeeeeeeetty bad, since your postulate is that theyre scum, which is just lol.
Also to people who talk about there newbie ness, your scum. If you are a newbie this will de evaluate your opinion, so it doesnt matter you post non constructive, vote on towns, bandwagon etc. Therefore proclaiming your newbieness is something only mafia will do. Even worse then all of this is that since your obviously scum by now, scum will bandwagon you.
Now Palmar, do you REALLY believe hes scum?
(you might ofcourse dont be scum, dont mention your newbie ness ever again though)
major fos on Pyo
fos on Coag and palmar and curu, the gtrsr bashing is worse then spam.
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On July 18 2011 10:31 CreamyButter wrote:
Yaaay I happened to check TL right when the day post went up! This is my first ever mafia game, so please bear with me while I try to figure things out. I read/skimmed/was confused by/scrolled aimlessly through Ver's epic guide, and from what I understand, it seems to be standard play to lynch the most inactive people? Though I guess that won't be apparent until a day from now, and with 5 posts each, "inactive" will have to be really relative D:
I find it kinda interesting that you feel the need to apologize for posting early in the thread.
Also, while you wrote a good long post on how mafia should play, you claim that you hardly even understand things like lynching lurkers as town? That seems like someone who has given mafia play a lot more thought than town play, which strikes me as odd.
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TAA: It's really an interesting discussion, the whole "But he can't be mafia because his team wouldn't let him be this bad".
Last two games I've played in aside from the derpfest that was caller's game, mafia has fucked up massively on day one (RTM and Merc mini), both cases had at least 2 mafia up for lynch on day one.
So I'm not really sure if I should let people go on the argument "they can't possibly be that bad, this is too easy". I tried to stop a scum lynch in merc mini (by directing to another scum, lol) on that reasoning.
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What do you think about Pyo?
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@Palmar
Establishing yourself as bad/new is usually a bad idea from town perspective, if we're to listen to what you have to say, then you should probably try to convince us you're intelligent and confident.
My defense against this argument is gonna be pretty simple: this argument is extremely basic and if I were mafia I really wouldn't be getting caught by this. If you go to Ver's guide on TL and ctrl+f to Day 1 Analysis, literally the FIRST mistake that he points out in the entire guide is that Misder frequently apologizes unnecessarily, implying that he is guilty. The reason why I decided to state that I'm a noob, despite the fact that it's an "obvious" scumtell, is because yea, I actually am a noob. I say this not as an excuse, but to be helpful. I feel that an important part of being on a team is letting everyone know exactly where you stand in terms of skill and ability, so that you can be tasked and judged properly. If I post a plan that is horrendously fail, I would like to be informed. I want everyone to think that I am intelligent and informed, but not by pretending to be mad super pro, because who do you respect more: combat-ex, who claims he's B, or a C player who is honest? I want you to listen to what I say because what I'm saying is helpful, not because I lie about being a noob. I'll stop though, since it seems to be creating a major red herring.
As for the fluff thing:
And you're even admitting that some of your posts are going to be fluff to fill up the posting standard. Shape up man.
My intention with this was that if someone writes a bunch of bullshit agreement/bandwagoning, and deems it to be analysis, it would be pretty obvious that they're hiding something. I also wanted to avoid a situation where a green, pressured into the 5 posts a day minimum and with no idea of what to do, screws up and gets himself lynched. After just one hour into the game, though, it's become pretty obvious that 5 posts a day is a fairly easy quota, so forget the fluff thing.
As for your recent post: I was asked by Curu for my opinion on mafia strategy. I would not have put so much thought into it (actually I probably would have) or posted it unprovoked.
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On July 18 2011 19:34 CreamyButter wrote:
The reason why I decided to state that I'm a noob, despite the fact that it's an "obvious" scumtell, is because yea, I actually am a noob. I say this not as an excuse, but to be helpful. I feel that an important part of being on a team is letting everyone know exactly where you stand in terms of skill and ability, so that you can be tasked and judged properly. If I post a plan that is horrendously fail, I would like to be informed. I want everyone to think that I am intelligent and informed, but not by pretending to be mad super pro, because who do you respect more: combat-ex, who claims he's B, or a C player who is honest? I want you to listen to what I say because what I'm saying is helpful, not because I lie about being a noob. I'll stop though, since it seems to be creating a major red herring.
But this isn't starcraft. This is completely different. If you find something incriminating no one gives a damn if you're new or vet or whatever, all you've done is establish that you're not responsible for your mistakes which only makes sense from anti-town perspective.
It's time you start actually trying to find something worth pointing out in the thread instead of talking about game theory.
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EPT
