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On July 18 2011 12:39 CreamyButter wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 10:37 Curu wrote:
CreamyButter, a question for you if I may. Taking the setup into consideration, how would you propose to play as Mafia this game if you were indeed to receive such a role? Ummm. Well. First order of business is of course ensuring that all mafia members are actively contributing to the thread. For the newer players, I might consider giving them a talking point, or else assigning one mafia to make an inconsequential "slip" in the thread, so that the less experienced mafia members can analyze properly without feeling guilty and without actually slipping up. I would pick the newest players and make sure they know what they're doing, basically, and if not I would help them compose their posts before they post them. After all mafia members are actively posting, I would try to shift the demographic being targeted in the thread to something less dangerous, such as lynching all lurkers. Also, since there seems to be a zodiac/veteran list going up, I would make sure to elect a figurehead boss, so that the boss doesn't end up on the list. From there, use PMs to harass/poke people and figure out what roles they have/infiltrate their circles >.> Avoid hitting vets, figure out where the hatter's bombs are before killing them, hit medics, boring stuff etc. I would be actively PMing, to make sure the town doesn't get up to anything worthwhile. Possibly coordinate PMs with other mafia members. A priority is reaching out to the insane inmates, and integrating them into the mafia circle. With no rolechecker, though, I'm not sure how mafia would do this. I guess they would get the DT to check on someone who isn't in the known mafia circle, and if the DT claims that he's seeing red, then the guy being checked is probably insane because no 3rd party would set themselves as red. For this reason I might consider not killing DTs right away as long as he's being properly manipulated. Batman is useless because he can't claim and he can't reveal his findings, though. From what I can tell, it is in mafia's best interest to get the 3rd parties lynched. The 3rd parties might randomly kill a mafia member at night, and might eat up night hits, and it is impossible to cooperate with them since they can't claim. I guess I would just leave random hints everywhere that someone (someone who isn't mafia) is Batman and hope he dies. As a 3rd party player: It seems to be in Joker's best interest for the game to end as quickly as possible, so he would keep mafia alive at first, so that their KP is higher. Batman and Ra'as, on the other hand, want to keep the game running longer, so that they have time to hunt. As Batman I would default to rolechecking, and killing only when either confirmed or if one side seems like it's winning. As Ra'as I would target lurkers/useless seeming people until I get a read. There seems to be enough vigilante advice, so maybe it's time to stop with that. As for DT advice though, Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 11:32 notasmurf wrote:
It's not who the veteran players are that we should be concerned about. It's who the new players are. These are the people that we should focus our DT check on, and take a closer look during scumhunting. By no means am I saying we should lynch new players instead of old ones. Obviously we need to lynch the best person possible. But what I'm saying is that they tend to get overlooked.
I agree that DTs should check the newer, more easy ignorable players, instead of the vets. Since as a DT you can only trust a red reading, there's no way to try and build a circle around yourself. It would also be much easier to get a newer, inactive, partially illiterate player lynched than an old one. So check people that you think yourself capable of actually getting lynched i guess. I have to study/class, will be back later today. I don't really know how to give/identify good analysis, but I'm fully open to being tested/asked stupid questions to see if I screw up, so feel free to send me PMs.
Why would we do this and how would you even pick a person to be in that position? I don't think anyone should automatically get off a list "just because."
You are right about the idea of lynching all lurkers; however it contradicts with the idea that mafia members would be active in this game. Why would we policy A if idea B means policy A could not reveal scum? I'm always under the assumption that mafia are the best when lurking. The less information they post, the harder it is to trap them. Check out Closed Casket for a perfect example of a mafia team that was able to skate away without posting much information.
There is going to be a ton of KP tonight if we don't organize our shots. How do we want to handle our hatters? I think they should avoid flipping the switch too quickly and focus on strategic bomb placements. They should NEVER reveal themselves as they are ideal RB targets.
Veterans should also be prepared to take hits, so I hope you guys are leading town discussion. You guys are going to be very powerful when it comes to late game as you can get a +1 life back.
Vigis should consider targeting inactive players, or players who are lynch suspects, or just not shoot at all. Do we want to keep our vigilantes from firing?
I would like to hear from some of the newer players, since there's a LOT of you guys. I didn't realize there were so many ^_____^
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On July 18 2011 13:14 Pyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 10:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ok, so let's get this started! First things first, let's lay out some things we want to achieve, and some guidelines. A pro-town atmosphereThis normally goes without saying, but it often bears repeating. If we want to catch scum, we need to have the proper environment for scum hunting and for communicating with each other. This means a couple things: - Promoting scum hunting.
- Not having pointless arguments
- Actively contributing
- All that jazz
Basically, we want to keep the thread as clean as possible, because chaos best serves mafia, not town. If you really don't know what to do, there's town guides. I'm not going to write one here, because I'm too lazy, and don't consider myself experienced enough to try. However, I am going to go through the three points above, as I think they are very important. We always want people to scum-hunt. There's never an excuse not to scum-hunt; everyone can do it. This provides us with many benefits. First, it's the primary method for actually finding scum. It also means that people have to give their actual thoughts, and have to come up with things beyond "I agree". This gives us information, and information is good. It lets us know what you're thinking, and it puts pressure on mafia to have to contribute. Also, forcing mafia to scum-hunt means that there's a good chance of catching them just based on their analysis, because it's hard to find people who are scummy, when you know they aren't scum. Next, we want to avoid bickering. This goes hand in hand with keeping the thread clean. This is different from actually debating with people, and you should be able to tell the difference between rationality, and NO U. If anyone is having a pointless argument, they will be asked to stop. It doesn't help town, only mafia. Lastly, we want people to contribute. There's a posting limit of 5 posts per day/night, but that doesn't give you permission to skirt that limit. It's easy for mafia to hide amongst lurkers, and beyond that, lurkers are nearly impossible to analyze. So, contribute. This doesn't mean make tons of pointless one-liners, it means providing actual thoughts, analysis, and content. You can do it, I believe in you. And if you don't, we can always just ask a vig to shoot you. We don't want people to lurk. CluesThere's clues in this game. However, all clue analysis MUST MUST MUST be backed up by post analysis. Before you post the clue analysis too. The reason for this, is that clues will most likely point to all kills. this means that some of the clues are going to point to vigs, some will point to third parties, and the others will point to mafia. Accidentally outing a vig because you solved the clues about them is bad. So, if you think someone's attached to a clue, go back and re-read their posts. If you think they look scummy, then post an analysis that contains the clue analysis. If you think they're town, just hold onto your analysis. Clue-analysis should always be used to supplement an actual behavioural analysis. It should never be the main point for calling someone scummy. In other words: Clues pointing towards a person does not equal scum. Third PartiesLooking at the third parties, here's what we want: -We want Joker to die. -We want Batman to kill Joker. -This means that Batman wins, and should hopefully be removed from the game, also removing Ra’as Al Ghul who can no longer achieve his victory condition. This is the optimal way the third party part of the game will go. We want Batman to kill Joker before Ra'as can kill Batman, so that we don't have to deal with Joker ourselves. So, if you think someone's acting like an SK, don't be afraid to point it out, as this should help Batman achieve his win-con, and let us get on with the rest of the game. If Joker is lynched, is Batman removed from the game? If Batman is removed from the game, is Ra'as removed from the game?Thoughts? Disagreements? Let's get this rolling. Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 12:39 CreamyButter wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 18 2011 10:37 Curu wrote:
CreamyButter, a question for you if I may. Taking the setup into consideration, how would you propose to play as Mafia this game if you were indeed to receive such a role? Ummm. Well. First order of business is of course ensuring that all mafia members are actively contributing to the thread. For the newer players, I might consider giving them a talking point, or else assigning one mafia to make an inconsequential "slip" in the thread, so that the less experienced mafia members can analyze properly without feeling guilty and without actually slipping up. I would pick the newest players and make sure they know what they're doing, basically, and if not I would help them compose their posts before they post them. After all mafia members are actively posting, I would try to shift the demographic being targeted in the thread to something less dangerous, such as lynching all lurkers. Also, since there seems to be a zodiac/veteran list going up, I would make sure to elect a figurehead boss, so that the boss doesn't end up on the list. From there, use PMs to harass/poke people and figure out what roles they have/infiltrate their circles >.> Avoid hitting vets, figure out where the hatter's bombs are before killing them, hit medics, boring stuff etc. I would be actively PMing, to make sure the town doesn't get up to anything worthwhile. Possibly coordinate PMs with other mafia members. A priority is reaching out to the insane inmates, and integrating them into the mafia circle. With no rolechecker, though, I'm not sure how mafia would do this. I guess they would get the DT to check on someone who isn't in the known mafia circle, and if the DT claims that he's seeing red, then the guy being checked is probably insane because no 3rd party would set themselves as red. For this reason I might consider not killing DTs right away as long as he's being properly manipulated. Batman is useless because he can't claim and he can't reveal his findings, though. From what I can tell, it is in mafia's best interest to get the 3rd parties lynched. The 3rd parties might randomly kill a mafia member at night, and might eat up night hits, and it is impossible to cooperate with them since they can't claim. I guess I would just leave random hints everywhere that someone (someone who isn't mafia) is Batman and hope he dies. As a 3rd party player: It seems to be in Joker's best interest for the game to end as quickly as possible, so he would keep mafia alive at first, so that their KP is higher. Batman and Ra'as, on the other hand, want to keep the game running longer, so that they have time to hunt. As Batman I would default to rolechecking, and killing only when either confirmed or if one side seems like it's winning. As Ra'as I would target lurkers/useless seeming people until I get a read. There seems to be enough vigilante advice, so maybe it's time to stop with that. As for DT advice though, On July 18 2011 11:32 notasmurf wrote:
It's not who the veteran players are that we should be concerned about. It's who the new players are. These are the people that we should focus our DT check on, and take a closer look during scumhunting. By no means am I saying we should lynch new players instead of old ones. Obviously we need to lynch the best person possible. But what I'm saying is that they tend to get overlooked.
I agree that DTs should check the newer, more easy ignorable players, instead of the vets. Since as a DT you can only trust a red reading, there's no way to try and build a circle around yourself. It would also be much easier to get a newer, inactive, partially illiterate player lynched than an old one. So check people that you think yourself capable of actually getting lynched i guess. I have to study/class, will be back later today. I don't really know how to give/identify good analysis, but I'm fully open to being tested/asked stupid questions to see if I screw up, so feel free to send me PMs. I might be a "newb" but from my limited experience, pretty much every time someone comes out with one of these massive long policy spam posts, they've been scum. Just sayin'
Meh, it's a null-tell again. Examples, GM in Real-Time Mafia, Kavdragon in Pick Your Power Insane. Both making long posts trying to direct town at the beginning, both town. Also, if you think my post is spam, please point out how. If you read it, I specifically say I'm not going to write a general how to play town guide, just give a little bit of general advice against what's made town lose in about three of the last four games I've played, and then talked about how to use clues properly and that killing Joker is a high priority for town. It's not even that massive either, haha.
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To be fair there are a lot of new players, people trying to guide and teach aren't auto scum. EG kav in 38 getting lynched day 1 by drh.
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I'm going to start off by saying something super-scummy, followed up by a tunnel of an inactive, and wrap it up with some insanely scummy comment that gets me lynched in the 11th hour.
Anyone object?
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OKHERESTHEPLAN
The Green players will serve as a RETARD MAGNET, subtly hinting that they are blue, and drawing out the Mafia's KP. Then, we will thrust our might lynching dick into their army, and immediately kill them.
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On July 18 2011 13:43 Nisani201 wrote: OKHERESTHEPLAN
The Green players will serve as a RETARD MAGNET, subtly hinting that they are blue, and drawing out the Mafia's KP. Then, we will thrust our might lynching dick into their army, and immediately kill them. Even though this is most likely a joke I feel like its encouraging falsehood and while its good to have fun I would ask you to not risk taking away from a good pro town mood with a cheap dick and retard joke.
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You're right, that was a joke (search youtube for "retard magnet.") However on a more serious note I don't see how the idea could hurt town. I'd like to hear other people's opinions.
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On July 18 2011 12:38 redFF wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 12:34 Sevryn wrote:On July 18 2011 12:03 Curu wrote:On July 18 2011 11:17 notasmurf wrote:Hello. Now, before we go off and venture forth, I'd like us to take a look at another recent game that ended quiet badly for the town, Closed Casket Mafia. The town lost Closed Casket Mafia because of two reasons - People lied. Do not lie. There is absolutely no reason to lie to the town. Do not fakeclaim to ‘draw a hit’. Two of the mislynches in Closed Casket Mafia were directly caused by lies
- The town killed itself. The mafia didn't do much; the town just went around shooting each other until everyone died. People were lynched more of emotion than what the facts were. Consider lylo Chezinu was lynched in spite of the fact that 1) DT returned a green check 2) Chezinu was playing considerably more pro town than before 3) Radfied somehow survived night one.
What we need to do as town this game is to agree on two things in public. 1. Do not fakeclaim Show me a game with a townie fakeclaiming publically or lying about their checks, and I’ll show you a game where the same townie could have achieved a much better result telling the truth 2. Do your own analysis Just cause three people say Bloodycobbler is skummy doesn’t mean that he actually is scum. Before you vote for someone, please read over their posts and develop an opinion for yourself. Keep in mind this just applies in public. In PMs go have fun guys + Show Spoiler +I know that people like clicking on spoilers, so I put this here to encourage you to read this post Do not lie he says, but his very name itself is a lie. Oh ho ho. On July 18 2011 11:43 redFF wrote: Vigs shoot lurkers and liars unless you are good at scumhunting, which very few people are. redFF, would you consider yourself one of those good scumhunters that are oh so very elusive? I would like to know how confident you are good sir. His name was done before the game so use use the fact that hes a smurf to argue against the common sense advice that he's giving seems pretty anti-town. I think it was a joke... Joking and sarcasm doesn't seem to smart, no matter how obvious it is. It's the internet!
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hey y'all been waiting all day for day 1 to drop so i could post early as soon as i start drinking it drops now here i am a bit later, a few drinks in and i can't be arsed to read already DAMN YOU ALCOHOL anyways as is my usual status quo, i'm just gonna claim straight up and immediately i'm a townie (inmate?) i'm green. no powers. not mafia. i haven't lied yet in a game (to be fair, i haven't been mafia yet either). i'm a bit insulted that whoever put out the vets/newbs list put me as a newb. i'm both singlehandedly won and lost two separate games for town already and i've got games and games of epicmafia under my belt WHEN WILL YOU REPSECT ME
anyways. wiggles, i dig the pro-town-ness already. you're like the palmar in RTM of this game. go you. i like when people take charge.
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^does that count as one of coagulation's 5 posts? cause i can do that all day
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isnt gtrsrs the guy that made Kenpachi RAGEQUIT?
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lol, so you basically dropped in to tell us you're going to be useless?
Great. A VT claim doesn't help Town at all either. You're just introducing yourself as mislynch bait or gambiting Mafia now or a whole load of other WIFOM crap. Can you provide a single pro Town reason why you would claim VT?
I hope you're just drunk and not really going to be a destructive force like this if you really are Town.
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On July 18 2011 14:34 Curu wrote: lol, so you basically dropped in to tell us you're going to be useless?
Great. A VT claim doesn't help Town at all either. You're just introducing yourself as mislynch bait or gambiting Mafia now or a whole load of other WIFOM crap. Can you provide a single pro Town reason why you would claim VT?
I hope you're just drunk and not really going to be a destructive force like this if you really are Town. lol read XL
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On July 18 2011 14:37 redFF wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 14:34 Curu wrote: lol, so you basically dropped in to tell us you're going to be useless?
Great. A VT claim doesn't help Town at all either. You're just introducing yourself as mislynch bait or gambiting Mafia now or a whole load of other WIFOM crap. Can you provide a single pro Town reason why you would claim VT?
I hope you're just drunk and not really going to be a destructive force like this if you really are Town. lol read XL
Be a dear and summarize for me?
I'm inclined to believe he's Town simply because he had 2 absolutely useless posts that basically said "I'm not going to be actively playing lulz" in World at War 2 Mafia too when he was Town. But he's still going to be prime mislynch bait going into later game. Sigh.
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On July 18 2011 13:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 13:14 Pyo wrote:On July 18 2011 10:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ok, so let's get this started! First things first, let's lay out some things we want to achieve, and some guidelines. A pro-town atmosphereThis normally goes without saying, but it often bears repeating. If we want to catch scum, we need to have the proper environment for scum hunting and for communicating with each other. This means a couple things: - Promoting scum hunting.
- Not having pointless arguments
- Actively contributing
- All that jazz
Basically, we want to keep the thread as clean as possible, because chaos best serves mafia, not town. If you really don't know what to do, there's town guides. I'm not going to write one here, because I'm too lazy, and don't consider myself experienced enough to try. However, I am going to go through the three points above, as I think they are very important. We always want people to scum-hunt. There's never an excuse not to scum-hunt; everyone can do it. This provides us with many benefits. First, it's the primary method for actually finding scum. It also means that people have to give their actual thoughts, and have to come up with things beyond "I agree". This gives us information, and information is good. It lets us know what you're thinking, and it puts pressure on mafia to have to contribute. Also, forcing mafia to scum-hunt means that there's a good chance of catching them just based on their analysis, because it's hard to find people who are scummy, when you know they aren't scum. Next, we want to avoid bickering. This goes hand in hand with keeping the thread clean. This is different from actually debating with people, and you should be able to tell the difference between rationality, and NO U. If anyone is having a pointless argument, they will be asked to stop. It doesn't help town, only mafia. Lastly, we want people to contribute. There's a posting limit of 5 posts per day/night, but that doesn't give you permission to skirt that limit. It's easy for mafia to hide amongst lurkers, and beyond that, lurkers are nearly impossible to analyze. So, contribute. This doesn't mean make tons of pointless one-liners, it means providing actual thoughts, analysis, and content. You can do it, I believe in you. And if you don't, we can always just ask a vig to shoot you. We don't want people to lurk. CluesThere's clues in this game. However, all clue analysis MUST MUST MUST be backed up by post analysis. Before you post the clue analysis too. The reason for this, is that clues will most likely point to all kills. this means that some of the clues are going to point to vigs, some will point to third parties, and the others will point to mafia. Accidentally outing a vig because you solved the clues about them is bad. So, if you think someone's attached to a clue, go back and re-read their posts. If you think they look scummy, then post an analysis that contains the clue analysis. If you think they're town, just hold onto your analysis. Clue-analysis should always be used to supplement an actual behavioural analysis. It should never be the main point for calling someone scummy. In other words: Clues pointing towards a person does not equal scum. Third PartiesLooking at the third parties, here's what we want: -We want Joker to die. -We want Batman to kill Joker. -This means that Batman wins, and should hopefully be removed from the game, also removing Ra’as Al Ghul who can no longer achieve his victory condition. This is the optimal way the third party part of the game will go. We want Batman to kill Joker before Ra'as can kill Batman, so that we don't have to deal with Joker ourselves. So, if you think someone's acting like an SK, don't be afraid to point it out, as this should help Batman achieve his win-con, and let us get on with the rest of the game. If Joker is lynched, is Batman removed from the game? If Batman is removed from the game, is Ra'as removed from the game?Thoughts? Disagreements? Let's get this rolling. On July 18 2011 12:39 CreamyButter wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 18 2011 10:37 Curu wrote:
CreamyButter, a question for you if I may. Taking the setup into consideration, how would you propose to play as Mafia this game if you were indeed to receive such a role? Ummm. Well. First order of business is of course ensuring that all mafia members are actively contributing to the thread. For the newer players, I might consider giving them a talking point, or else assigning one mafia to make an inconsequential "slip" in the thread, so that the less experienced mafia members can analyze properly without feeling guilty and without actually slipping up. I would pick the newest players and make sure they know what they're doing, basically, and if not I would help them compose their posts before they post them. After all mafia members are actively posting, I would try to shift the demographic being targeted in the thread to something less dangerous, such as lynching all lurkers. Also, since there seems to be a zodiac/veteran list going up, I would make sure to elect a figurehead boss, so that the boss doesn't end up on the list. From there, use PMs to harass/poke people and figure out what roles they have/infiltrate their circles >.> Avoid hitting vets, figure out where the hatter's bombs are before killing them, hit medics, boring stuff etc. I would be actively PMing, to make sure the town doesn't get up to anything worthwhile. Possibly coordinate PMs with other mafia members. A priority is reaching out to the insane inmates, and integrating them into the mafia circle. With no rolechecker, though, I'm not sure how mafia would do this. I guess they would get the DT to check on someone who isn't in the known mafia circle, and if the DT claims that he's seeing red, then the guy being checked is probably insane because no 3rd party would set themselves as red. For this reason I might consider not killing DTs right away as long as he's being properly manipulated. Batman is useless because he can't claim and he can't reveal his findings, though. From what I can tell, it is in mafia's best interest to get the 3rd parties lynched. The 3rd parties might randomly kill a mafia member at night, and might eat up night hits, and it is impossible to cooperate with them since they can't claim. I guess I would just leave random hints everywhere that someone (someone who isn't mafia) is Batman and hope he dies. As a 3rd party player: It seems to be in Joker's best interest for the game to end as quickly as possible, so he would keep mafia alive at first, so that their KP is higher. Batman and Ra'as, on the other hand, want to keep the game running longer, so that they have time to hunt. As Batman I would default to rolechecking, and killing only when either confirmed or if one side seems like it's winning. As Ra'as I would target lurkers/useless seeming people until I get a read. There seems to be enough vigilante advice, so maybe it's time to stop with that. As for DT advice though, On July 18 2011 11:32 notasmurf wrote:
It's not who the veteran players are that we should be concerned about. It's who the new players are. These are the people that we should focus our DT check on, and take a closer look during scumhunting. By no means am I saying we should lynch new players instead of old ones. Obviously we need to lynch the best person possible. But what I'm saying is that they tend to get overlooked.
I agree that DTs should check the newer, more easy ignorable players, instead of the vets. Since as a DT you can only trust a red reading, there's no way to try and build a circle around yourself. It would also be much easier to get a newer, inactive, partially illiterate player lynched than an old one. So check people that you think yourself capable of actually getting lynched i guess. I have to study/class, will be back later today. I don't really know how to give/identify good analysis, but I'm fully open to being tested/asked stupid questions to see if I screw up, so feel free to send me PMs. I might be a "newb" but from my limited experience, pretty much every time someone comes out with one of these massive long policy spam posts, they've been scum. Just sayin' Meh, it's a null-tell again. Examples, GM in Real-Time Mafia, Kavdragon in Pick Your Power Insane. Both making long posts trying to direct town at the beginning, both town. Also, if you think my post is spam, please point out how. If you read it, I specifically say I'm not going to write a general how to play town guide, just give a little bit of general advice against what's made town lose in about three of the last four games I've played, and then talked about how to use clues properly and that killing Joker is a high priority for town. It's not even that massive either, haha.
All you did in your post was herpa-derp the premise of the game. It's not meaningful in any way shape or form. I realize that people can meta-game that shit by always posting that crap at the beginning of their games so that whenever they are mafia it doesn't look so suspicious, but in general it's a really bad way to play if you really are town.
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On July 18 2011 14:14 gtrsrs wrote: anyways. wiggles, i dig the pro-town-ness already. you're like the palmar in RTM of this game. go you. i like when people take charge.
Please don't make the mistake gtrsrs already made. It doesn't do anything to say someone looks pro-town. All it might do is lure us into a sense of complacency about the player, which is bad. Scum hunting is better than town-checking. :/
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hi guys. Im Kenpachi and im a Townie. Kinda lame cause i wanted to be awesome.
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