|
On July 18 2011 10:57 redFF wrote:
If you clue analyse backing it up with some other form of analysis or evidence can help, but isn't necessary. If you see a clue don't be afraid to point it out.
Unless its like, x is a detective, then don't point it out lol. On the whole I think relying on clue analysis is pretty terrible though so i won't be basing any of my voting around some vague clue which could be pointing to 10 different people.
Clue analysis can be strong, and also, newer players are sometimes easily swayed by it, because it seems like an "objective" form of scum-hunting. I'm saying, before pointing out any clues, look at the person who was killed, and the posting history of the player you think the clue is pointing to.
For example, if they killed a mafia, and look super pro-town, what would be the possible benefits of pointing it out?
However, if someone killed town, and look scummy, then make an actual analysis and then attach the perceived clue to it.
No one should be lynched only on clues, and clues shouldn't just be looked at in a vacuum.
|
On July 18 2011 10:58 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 10:37 deconduo wrote:
I agree that Batman killing the Joker is the ideal situation. However I would regard all 3rd party, including Batman, as anti-town. They constitute 3 extra KP each night which results in a faster lylo and less DT checks and clues. If we catch one they should be lynched. None of this 'Keep me alive and I'll help town' crap.
Given the size of the game and the heavy activity requirement there will be a lot of reading to do. There will certainly be people attempting to just pass with the bare minimum of posts. These people should be scrutinised intensly, and lynched if any clues point towards them. Mhmm, if we catch them, we should lynch them. However, how can we catch them? The only ways I can see, are through just behavioural analysis, and also clue analysis. That's why I say, that if someone is acting like an SK, we might as well lynch them. However, SKs normally act like lurkers, or are scummy, from my experience. So, that means the batman should be shooting into lurkers and scummy people. On the flip-side though, Ra'al is going to be shooting into pro-town players, as Batman wants to try to look like a green, most likely. The priority is: joker>batman>ra'al Because killing up the chain, removes the players below. So, I guess you're right, that we should always kill third-parties, to remove their KP. However, the priority should be on the joker, as he will most likely appear scummiest, and also his death removes all third parties.
Fake roleclaims or flavour text would be another way to catch them. But yeah, it will probably be difficult to catch them. Still, it shouldn't be ignored especially given that killing the Joker will remove 3 anti-town KP from the game.
|
Maybe it's because I only have 35 posts, but 5 posts a day seems like a hell of a lot, and I'm predicting a ton of spam/filler posts just to hit the minimum (I'm kind of freaking out about getting modkilled if I forget one evening lol). Maybe we should tag our posts like /analysis or /filler? Since I feel like if people are all forced to make 5 posts a day, there might be a lot of red herrings from tired townies who just want the day to end, and this way we can sort of manually adjust the posting minimum to like 3 "real" posts a day. Or 8 or whatever.
@Curu
Give me a sec to think about it. From what I understand the mafia just sort of chill, analyze/snipe blues, give confusing/chaos-inspiring analysis, and attempt to plant themselves into town circles. Not sure if there are any strategies that would be particular to this game yet, but will totally get back to you on that.
Also I'm sure this is unintentional, but just to make sure,
There's a posting limit of 5 posts per day/night, but that doesn't give you permission to skirt that limit.
It's a minimum, not a limit, right?
|
On July 18 2011 11:00 redFF wrote:
And regarding blacks I feel it is best to ignore them. Usually I don't really like lynching blacks, but since they all have 1kp a night and will be shooting into town I say if we find them we should be lynching them.
Im going to be treating all the black roles as serial killers.
I disagree about ignoring them. Effort should definitely be made in finding and lynching them, especially the Joker and/or Batman.
|
On July 18 2011 11:02 CreamyButter wrote:Maybe it's because I only have 35 posts, but 5 posts a day seems like a hell of a lot, and I'm predicting a ton of spam/filler posts just to hit the minimum (I'm kind of freaking out about getting modkilled if I forget one evening lol). Maybe we should tag our posts like /analysis or /filler? Since I feel like if people are all forced to make 5 posts a day, there might be a lot of red herrings from tired townies who just want the day to end, and this way we can sort of manually adjust the posting minimum to like 3 "real" posts a day. Or 8 or whatever. @Curu Give me a sec to think about it. From what I understand the mafia just sort of chill, analyze/snipe blues, give confusing/chaos-inspiring analysis, and attempt to plant themselves into town circles. Not sure if there are any strategies that would be particular to this game yet, but will totally get back to you on that. Also I'm sure this is unintentional, but just to make sure, Show nested quote +There's a posting limit of 5 posts per day/night, but that doesn't give you permission to skirt that limit. It's a minimum, not a limit, right?
Yeah, it's a minimum, I just used the word limit for some reason =/
If you are being active and playing the game, you shouldn't really have any problem making the 5 post minimum.
For example, you already made 2 decent posts, and still have almost 70 hours to make the other three to avoid mod-kill.
Also, filler should mostly be avoided if possible, as there are always other things to post besides useless stuff. For example, you can comment on other people's analysis, on the voting patterns or bandwagons that are going to appear, on how people are acting or trying to manipulate town, etc. There's lots to talk about. :p
|
On July 18 2011 11:03 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 11:00 redFF wrote:
And regarding blacks I feel it is best to ignore them. Usually I don't really like lynching blacks, but since they all have 1kp a night and will be shooting into town I say if we find them we should be lynching them.
Im going to be treating all the black roles as serial killers. I disagree about ignoring them. Effort should definitely be made in finding and lynching them, especially the Joker and/or Batman.
Agreed. Together the third party hold the same amount of KP as the entire mafia, and based on probability, are more like to kill town than mafia too.
|
On July 18 2011 10:50 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 10:45 Amber[LighT] wrote:On July 18 2011 10:31 CreamyButter wrote:
Yaaay I happened to check TL right when the day post went up! This is my first ever mafia game, so please bear with me while I try to figure things out. I read/skimmed/was confused by/scrolled aimlessly through Ver's epic guide, and from what I understand, it seems to be standard play to lynch the most inactive people? Though I guess that won't be apparent until a day from now, and with 5 posts each, "inactive" will have to be really relative D:
Another concept I saw browsing around some other games was a "zodiac list," which seemed to be somewhat effective (or at least not hurtful) and apparently is pretty much just a list of the best/most active players in the game. Unfortunately I don't really have a feel for who the good players are, and from what I can tell it doesn't seem to be possible to check people's posting histories unless you're a mod >.> Anyone mind helping me out with that?
Also, PM me! I don't wanna sit here alone T.T. I will totally try and everything. I am currently in Taiwan, which is 1 hour ahead of Korean time, and I have Chinese classes/I have to study/I eat at places for most of the afternoons. Mornings (if I wake up) and evenings should all be completely fine though. GLHF all! I don't think the zodiac list necessarily benefits as much as people claim. If we use this idea we need to stick with it past day 1. Yes, that's the point of the Zodiac list. It's also good just to get people talking on Day 1, as we don't just want one person to make a list, we want people to discuss it with actual reasoning. The last couple times people brought it up, they were always scum, so the list wasn't kept up past the first day, so it didn't actually create any pressure. If we want to try it this game, I'd be willing to help keep it updated and relevant. Basically, we just need everyone to agree to actually use it to pressure people. That means threatening to lynch people on the Zodiac List who are under performing or lurking, not just letting it slide.
I was going to make that point. I believe 3 of the past 4 Zodiac lists posted in games I've been in were posted by scum. I have no real issues with the lists themselves but I have learned to look really hard at the individual that posted it.
There are a fair few amount of new people in this game. I think those lists are more beneficial to them than to those of us that have already played numerous games together. Perhaps it would be an idea for each of us to nominate a person for the list and when a consensus is reached we use that?
That will prevent me from wanting to lynch the person that submitted it.
Unless of course you are scum and you want to post your list and get lynched then I'm all for that.
|
Hello.
Now, before we go off and venture forth, I'd like us to take a look at another recent game that ended quiet badly for the town, Closed Casket Mafia.
The town lost Closed Casket Mafia because of two reasons
- People lied. Do not lie. There is absolutely no reason to lie to the town. Do not fakeclaim to ‘draw a hit’. Two of the mislynches in Closed Casket Mafia were directly caused by lies
- The town killed itself. The mafia didn't do much; the town just went around shooting each other until everyone died. People were lynched more of emotion than what the facts were. Consider lylo Chezinu was lynched in spite of the fact that 1) DT returned a green check 2) Chezinu was playing considerably more pro town than before 3) Radfied somehow survived night one.
What we need to do as town this game is to agree on two things in public.
1. Do not fakeclaim Show me a game with a townie fakeclaiming publically or lying about their checks, and I’ll show you a game where the same townie could have achieved a much better result telling the truth
2. Do your own analysis Just cause three people say Bloodycobbler is skummy doesn’t mean that he actually is scum. Before you vote for someone, please read over their posts and develop an opinion for yourself.
Keep in mind this just applies in public. In PMs go have fun guys
+ Show Spoiler +I know that people like clicking on spoilers, so I put this here to encourage you to read this post
|
|
|
If notasmurf survives night 1 he should be lynched. With that, I'm off to sleep.
|
United States4714 Posts
There are a ton of new players this game. So someone who has been around a long time should make a list of the veteran players, not necessarily to use as a discussion point but just purely as information. The mafia are pretty much guaranteed to have at least a couple vets on their team so they will all know who the experienced players are. There is no reason a list shouldn't be made just so the new town players won't be at a disadvantage information wise.
I will make one if no one who has been around longer does.
Also I will just say I don't care who notasmurf is and neither should anyone else. If you really want to bug him then send him pms about it. Don't spam the thread up discussing his identity.
|
On July 18 2011 11:23 Mig wrote:
There are a ton of new players this game. So someone who has been around a long time should make a list of the veteran players, not necessarily to use as a discussion point but just purely as information. The mafia are pretty much guaranteed to have at least a couple vets on their team so they will all know who the experienced players are. There is no reason a list shouldn't be made just so the new town players won't be at a disadvantage information wise.
I will make one if no one who has been around longer does.
Also I will just say I don't care who notasmurf is and neither should anyone else. If you really want to bug him then send him pms about it. Don't spam the thread up discussing his identity.
It's not who the veteran players are that we should be concerned about. It's who the new players are.
These are the people that mafia don't like to shoot. Of the new player list, probably 3-5 of them will be modkilled for inactivity. That leaves a lot that will possibly survive to the end. These are the people that we should focus our DT check on, and take a closer look during scumhunting.
By no means am I saying we should lynch new players instead of old ones. Obviously we need to lynch the best person possible. But what I'm saying is that they tend to get overlooked.
|
Just a lovely note to our lovely DTs out there:
Never check a man who is a very likely lynch. If you find a guilty, well he's getting killed anyways. If you find an innocent, then you shouldn't be outing yourself to save him anyways unless there are very few players left in the game. The Godfather/third parties also give innocent checks.
To our lovely Vigilantes:
Likewise, if someone is declared a policy lynch or something of that nature, it is far better to have our Vigilantes shoot them instead. The lynch process gives us no information when reds can easily bandwagon lynch someone. Remember that the lynch is a process for finding information and connections as well, not just a simple kill.
|
On July 18 2011 11:01 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 10:57 redFF wrote:
If you clue analyse backing it up with some other form of analysis or evidence can help, but isn't necessary. If you see a clue don't be afraid to point it out.
Unless its like, x is a detective, then don't point it out lol. On the whole I think relying on clue analysis is pretty terrible though so i won't be basing any of my voting around some vague clue which could be pointing to 10 different people. Clue analysis can be strong, and also, newer players are sometimes easily swayed by it, because it seems like an "objective" form of scum-hunting. I'm saying, before pointing out any clues, look at the person who was killed, and the posting history of the player you think the clue is pointing to. For example, if they killed a mafia, and look super pro-town, what would be the possible benefits of pointing it out? However, if someone killed town, and look scummy, then make an actual analysis and then attach the perceived clue to it. No one should be lynched only on clues, and clues shouldn't just be looked at in a vacuum.
Yea I kind of agree about clue analysis. I read some previous games and based on the clues there, it seems like you can make all kinds of wrong assumptions. Seems like clue analysis would serve better to confirm/crosscheck with other hunches.
In my opinion you shouldn't dig around too much into clues unless you have some specific reason to do so. Having everyone being accused a few times because of how clues are twisted will create confusion/chaos, which is never good.
|
Vigs shoot lurkers and liars unless you are good at scumhunting, which very few people are.
|
I openly invite any other player to PM me regarding this game.
Furthermore, I would like to suggest all vigilantes to be initially conservative with your shots, and consider not firing at all for a day or two, for the following reasons:
- no matter how sure you are that your target is scum, past results have shown that a large majority of early-game vigilante shots hit fellow town.
- when you shoot, you'll probably leave behind a clue which might help mafia identify you (and eliminate you as a later-game threat to them), as well as muddy the waters for town looking into the clues for scum
- if you don't hit scum, you contribute to reducing the number of days the town has available to win, which reduces the number of day posts with clues, and MORE IMPORTANTLY, reduces the number of vote lists to analyze. Analyzing how people vote is one of the most important aspects of the game, and I want everyone to take posts discussing voting records seriously.
(I do agree that policy lynch targets are better carried out by vigilantes than by an actual lynch. But this shouldn't contradict with what I've said since we really shouldn't have any policy lynch targets this early in the game.)
On July 18 2011 11:17 notasmurf wrote:
There is absolutely no reason to lie to the town.
I agree with this 100%. In most cases, accurate public information benefits town more than scum, even if scum can really benefit from a few particular pieces of information. Consider this extreme example. If suddenly everything about the game is known to everyone in the game. Who wins? Town. Scum can do nothing to stop the town even if scum also knows everything about the game.
And as notasmurf said, false information introduced by town members can really misdirect the town up to the point of causing mislynches.
|
On July 18 2011 11:41 Curu wrote:
Just a lovely note to our lovely DTs out there:
Never check a man who is a very likely lynch. If you find a guilty, well he's getting killed anyways. If you find an innocent, then you shouldn't be outing yourself to save him anyways unless there are very few players left in the game. The Godfather/third parties also give innocent checks.
To our lovely Vigilantes:
Likewise, if someone is declared a policy lynch or something of that nature, it is far better to have our Vigilantes shoot them instead. The lynch process gives us no information when reds can easily bandwagon lynch someone. Remember that the lynch is a process for finding information and connections as well, not just a simple kill.
Also, to add on to advice for DTs, especially as there are a lot of newer players present, always try to form a case around a player based on analysis if you get a guilty check. Do not just claim. Claiming early is never a good thing, as a 1-1 trade with mafia benefits them more than town.
|
^
Well, a "1-1 trade" benefits town a TON more than the mafia, if the town is vanilla. But a DT trade for a mafia is a poor one.
|
On July 18 2011 11:51 Zona wrote:
^
Well, a "1-1 trade" benefits town a TON more than the mafia, if the town is vanilla. But a DT trade for a mafia is a poor one.
Oops, I might have screwed up the logic, haha. Been playing scum for too long. O.o
Green for mafia is an awesome trade, as we outnumber the mafia.
1-1 with a DT isn't great early on, especially depending on who the scum is. For example, if you checked random lurker A and they returned red, try to get them shot or lynched, don't claim. Trading a DT for a red lurker isn't a very good trade, when we can get additional use out of the DT. Use your discretion, but I think making a push for a lynch based on analysis should be the first step taken, before any kind of claim.
|
On July 18 2011 11:17 notasmurf wrote:Hello. Now, before we go off and venture forth, I'd like us to take a look at another recent game that ended quiet badly for the town, Closed Casket Mafia. The town lost Closed Casket Mafia because of two reasons - People lied. Do not lie. There is absolutely no reason to lie to the town. Do not fakeclaim to ‘draw a hit’. Two of the mislynches in Closed Casket Mafia were directly caused by lies
- The town killed itself. The mafia didn't do much; the town just went around shooting each other until everyone died. People were lynched more of emotion than what the facts were. Consider lylo Chezinu was lynched in spite of the fact that 1) DT returned a green check 2) Chezinu was playing considerably more pro town than before 3) Radfied somehow survived night one.
What we need to do as town this game is to agree on two things in public. 1. Do not fakeclaim Show me a game with a townie fakeclaiming publically or lying about their checks, and I’ll show you a game where the same townie could have achieved a much better result telling the truth 2. Do your own analysis Just cause three people say Bloodycobbler is skummy doesn’t mean that he actually is scum. Before you vote for someone, please read over their posts and develop an opinion for yourself. Keep in mind this just applies in public. In PMs go have fun guys + Show Spoiler +I know that people like clicking on spoilers, so I put this here to encourage you to read this post
Do not lie he says, but his very name itself is a lie. Oh ho ho.
On July 18 2011 11:43 redFF wrote:
Vigs shoot lurkers and liars unless you are good at scumhunting, which very few people are.
redFF, would you consider yourself one of those good scumhunters that are oh so very elusive? I would like to know how confident you are good sir.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
