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Mig
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States4714 Posts
July 18 2011 06:13 GMT
#401
Red I like how you tell people not to spam in the game, yet you are probably averaging like 4 words per post.

Pms are a much more powerful town tool than they are a mafia one. The mafia can already work as a team so they don't need pms and the mafia has a ton of information to hide. The only thing any town needs to hide right now really is their role. It is much more likely for the mafia to slip something that you can use than it is for you to slip something they can use. So I encourage people to be active with using pms. Just A) don't ever trust anyone or believe everything they tell you and B) don't ever role claim. Even if you are VT you should never role claim, it just makes it easier for the mafia to narrow down their targets if they are trying to blue snipe.

Moderator
Kenpachi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States9908 Posts
July 18 2011 06:13 GMT
#402
On July 18 2011 14:34 Coagulation wrote:
isnt gtrsrs the guy that made Kenpachi RAGEQUIT?

no that was palmar
Nada's body is South Korea's greatest weapon.
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
July 18 2011 06:22 GMT
#403
Here's why claiming VT is nothing but anti-Town:

1. You draw suspicion onto yourself. If a Mafia gambiting as VT is believed, bad news bears for Town.
2. You narrow down the possible blues that Mafia can snipe if you really are VT.
3. If you are a blue trying to hide as a green, then you're just throwing lies into the Town. Even once you claim as blue later, not many are going to believe you and you're prime mislynch fodder. You're also drawing a lot of attention to yourself as mislynch or Vig bait.

There is not one pro-Town aspect of claiming VT.

Kenpachi, why did you claim?
wat
Nisani201
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1400 Posts
July 18 2011 06:24 GMT
#404
This game:
On July 18 2011 15:08 Kenpachi wrote:
hi guys. Im Kenpachi and im a Townie. Kinda lame cause i wanted to be awesome.


TLM XLII:
On June 15 2011 05:59 Kenpachi wrote:
hi im Kenpachi
i slept all day yesterday so thats the reason why i was mia (surprise!)

btw, im a townie


RTM:
On June 29 2011 03:55 Kenpachi wrote:
sorry im at my friend's house. I'll go read the thread once i get home.

BTW, im Kenpachi and Im a Townie.

Enjoy your day.
Mig
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States4714 Posts
July 18 2011 06:26 GMT
#405
Yea I was about to post that Kenpachi with one of his first posts claims townie every single game he plays.

It should be more of a concern that gtrs is randomly claiming VT for no reason.
Moderator
Kenpachi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States9908 Posts
July 18 2011 06:30 GMT
#406
Alright guys. it made me realize that after the day/night cycle, clues will be kicking in. DO NOT go all in with the clues. they are not your only source to scumhunting.
Nada's body is South Korea's greatest weapon.
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
July 18 2011 06:35 GMT
#407
On July 18 2011 14:34 Curu wrote:
lol, so you basically dropped in to tell us you're going to be useless?

Great. A VT claim doesn't help Town at all either. You're just introducing yourself as mislynch bait or gambiting Mafia now or a whole load of other WIFOM crap. Can you provide a single pro Town reason why you would claim VT?

I hope you're just drunk and not really going to be a destructive force like this if you really are Town.


wow fuck off
you're my #1 target right now. nothing i've posted has been destructive. i'm not drunk 24/7 and i can make really insightful posts when i put my mind to it. right now you look desperate to make someone look bad, that's clear scum behavior to me.

i claimed VT because i have nothing to hide. when i'm town i play extremely pro-town. i don't try to blend in, i don't try to conceal powers or fake claim. i just play town. you'll find me doing that this game.


On July 18 2011 14:39 Curu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2011 14:37 redFF wrote:
On July 18 2011 14:34 Curu wrote:
lol, so you basically dropped in to tell us you're going to be useless?

Great. A VT claim doesn't help Town at all either. You're just introducing yourself as mislynch bait or gambiting Mafia now or a whole load of other WIFOM crap. Can you provide a single pro Town reason why you would claim VT?

I hope you're just drunk and not really going to be a destructive force like this if you really are Town.

lol read XL


Be a dear and summarize for me?

I'm inclined to believe he's Town simply because he had 2 absolutely useless posts that basically said "I'm not going to be actively playing lulz" in World at War 2 Mafia too when he was Town. But he's still going to be prime mislynch bait going into later game. Sigh.


i owned the fuck out of xl2 by tunneling the godfather from day 1

ww2 was hosted by my dear friend caller which i dearly wanted to play. unfortunately it started the same day i got kicked out of my house and had no internet through the duration of it. i won't apologize at all for that, it was completely out of my control.

you suck.
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
July 18 2011 06:45 GMT
#408
On July 18 2011 14:49 Pyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2011 13:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
On July 18 2011 13:14 Pyo wrote:
On July 18 2011 10:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Ok, so let's get this started!

First things first, let's lay out some things we want to achieve, and some guidelines.

A pro-town atmosphere

This normally goes without saying, but it often bears repeating. If we want to catch scum, we need to have the proper environment for scum hunting and for communicating with each other. This means a couple things:

  • Promoting scum hunting.
  • Not having pointless arguments
  • Actively contributing
  • All that jazz


Basically, we want to keep the thread as clean as possible, because chaos best serves mafia, not town. If you really don't know what to do, there's town guides. I'm not going to write one here, because I'm too lazy, and don't consider myself experienced enough to try. However, I am going to go through the three points above, as I think they are very important.

We always want people to scum-hunt. There's never an excuse not to scum-hunt; everyone can do it. This provides us with many benefits. First, it's the primary method for actually finding scum. It also means that people have to give their actual thoughts, and have to come up with things beyond "I agree". This gives us information, and information is good. It lets us know what you're thinking, and it puts pressure on mafia to have to contribute. Also, forcing mafia to scum-hunt means that there's a good chance of catching them just based on their analysis, because it's hard to find people who are scummy, when you know they aren't scum.

Next, we want to avoid bickering. This goes hand in hand with keeping the thread clean. This is different from actually debating with people, and you should be able to tell the difference between rationality, and NO U. If anyone is having a pointless argument, they will be asked to stop. It doesn't help town, only mafia.

Lastly, we want people to contribute. There's a posting limit of 5 posts per day/night, but that doesn't give you permission to skirt that limit. It's easy for mafia to hide amongst lurkers, and beyond that, lurkers are nearly impossible to analyze. So, contribute. This doesn't mean make tons of pointless one-liners, it means providing actual thoughts, analysis, and content. You can do it, I believe in you. And if you don't, we can always just ask a vig to shoot you. We don't want people to lurk.

Clues

There's clues in this game. However, all clue analysis MUST MUST MUST be backed up by post analysis. Before you post the clue analysis too. The reason for this, is that clues will most likely point to all kills. this means that some of the clues are going to point to vigs, some will point to third parties, and the others will point to mafia. Accidentally outing a vig because you solved the clues about them is bad. So, if you think someone's attached to a clue, go back and re-read their posts. If you think they look scummy, then post an analysis that contains the clue analysis. If you think they're town, just hold onto your analysis. Clue-analysis should always be used to supplement an actual behavioural analysis. It should never be the main point for calling someone scummy. In other words: Clues pointing towards a person does not equal scum.

Third Parties

Looking at the third parties, here's what we want:

-We want Joker to die.
-We want Batman to kill Joker.
-This means that Batman wins, and should hopefully be removed from the game, also removing Ra’as Al Ghul who can no longer achieve his victory condition.

This is the optimal way the third party part of the game will go. We want Batman to kill Joker before Ra'as can kill Batman, so that we don't have to deal with Joker ourselves. So, if you think someone's acting like an SK, don't be afraid to point it out, as this should help Batman achieve his win-con, and let us get on with the rest of the game.

If Joker is lynched, is Batman removed from the game?
If Batman is removed from the game, is Ra'as removed from the game?


Thoughts? Disagreements? Let's get this rolling.


On July 18 2011 12:39 CreamyButter wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 18 2011 10:37 Curu wrote:

CreamyButter, a question for you if I may. Taking the setup into consideration, how would you propose to play as Mafia this game if you were indeed to receive such a role?


Ummm. Well. First order of business is of course ensuring that all mafia members are actively contributing to the thread. For the newer players, I might consider giving them a talking point, or else assigning one mafia to make an inconsequential "slip" in the thread, so that the less experienced mafia members can analyze properly without feeling guilty and without actually slipping up. I would pick the newest players and make sure they know what they're doing, basically, and if not I would help them compose their posts before they post them. After all mafia members are actively posting, I would try to shift the demographic being targeted in the thread to something less dangerous, such as lynching all lurkers.

Also, since there seems to be a zodiac/veteran list going up, I would make sure to elect a figurehead boss, so that the boss doesn't end up on the list.

From there, use PMs to harass/poke people and figure out what roles they have/infiltrate their circles >.> Avoid hitting vets, figure out where the hatter's bombs are before killing them, hit medics, boring stuff etc. I would be actively PMing, to make sure the town doesn't get up to anything worthwhile. Possibly coordinate PMs with other mafia members.

A priority is reaching out to the insane inmates, and integrating them into the mafia circle. With no rolechecker, though, I'm not sure how mafia would do this. I guess they would get the DT to check on someone who isn't in the known mafia circle, and if the DT claims that he's seeing red, then the guy being checked is probably insane because no 3rd party would set themselves as red. For this reason I might consider not killing DTs right away as long as he's being properly manipulated. Batman is useless because he can't claim and he can't reveal his findings, though.

From what I can tell, it is in mafia's best interest to get the 3rd parties lynched. The 3rd parties might randomly kill a mafia member at night, and might eat up night hits, and it is impossible to cooperate with them since they can't claim. I guess I would just leave random hints everywhere that someone (someone who isn't mafia) is Batman and hope he dies.

As a 3rd party player:
It seems to be in Joker's best interest for the game to end as quickly as possible, so he would keep mafia alive at first, so that their KP is higher. Batman and Ra'as, on the other hand, want to keep the game running longer, so that they have time to hunt. As Batman I would default to rolechecking, and killing only when either confirmed or if one side seems like it's winning. As Ra'as I would target lurkers/useless seeming people until I get a read.

There seems to be enough vigilante advice, so maybe it's time to stop with that. As for DT advice though,
On July 18 2011 11:32 notasmurf wrote:

It's not who the veteran players are that we should be concerned about. It's who the new players are.
These are the people that we should focus our DT check on, and take a closer look during scumhunting.
By no means am I saying we should lynch new players instead of old ones. Obviously we need to lynch the best person possible. But what I'm saying is that they tend to get overlooked.

I agree that DTs should check the newer, more easy ignorable players, instead of the vets. Since as a DT you can only trust a red reading, there's no way to try and build a circle around yourself. It would also be much easier to get a newer, inactive, partially illiterate player lynched than an old one. So check people that you think yourself capable of actually getting lynched i guess.

I have to study/class, will be back later today. I don't really know how to give/identify good analysis, but I'm fully open to being tested/asked stupid questions to see if I screw up, so feel free to send me PMs.



I might be a "newb" but from my limited experience, pretty much every time someone comes out with one of these massive long policy spam posts, they've been scum. Just sayin'


Meh, it's a null-tell again. Examples, GM in Real-Time Mafia, Kavdragon in Pick Your Power Insane. Both making long posts trying to direct town at the beginning, both town. Also, if you think my post is spam, please point out how. If you read it, I specifically say I'm not going to write a general how to play town guide, just give a little bit of general advice against what's made town lose in about three of the last four games I've played, and then talked about how to use clues properly and that killing Joker is a high priority for town. It's not even that massive either, haha.


All you did in your post was herpa-derp the premise of the game. It's not meaningful in any way shape or form. I realize that people can meta-game that shit by always posting that crap at the beginning of their games so that whenever they are mafia it doesn't look so suspicious, but in general it's a really bad way to play if you really are town.


Are you sure about that? I'm starting to question if you read posts or just skim through them. Also, the premise of the game is to kill mafia. If you want, I can go find the games where I won as mafia exactly because of the things I mentioned in my opening post. I can also reference you to a clue game where I used clues only, with no backing analysis, to win as an SK, thus the warning. The next bit is me analyzing the set-up a little, and bringing things up that no one mentioned yet about how there's a priority to killing off the third parties.

That post is only useless if I don't hold people to what I wrote or make people follow what I said. So, unless you want the examples, I'm done with this. Look at my second point if you want the reason why.
you gotta dance
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
July 18 2011 06:59 GMT
#409
I had a big post typed out but I'm not going to post it since it's just going to derail into a me vs you attack. Come back when you're sober gtr and when you feel like putting effort into making those insightful posts you claim you can make.
wat
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
July 18 2011 07:02 GMT
#410
And if you really want to be Pro-Town, then stop making bullshit OMGUS posts because someone called you out. That's scum behavior.

I'm not willing to pursue it right now because you're apparently drunk and I don't think you're scum (just misguided Townie), but you've been banned before for mindlessly raging at players right? If you want to help Town then drop your crap and make some of those insightful posts you mentioned.
wat
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
July 18 2011 07:02 GMT
#411
you two, calm the down.
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
July 18 2011 07:05 GMT
#412
On July 18 2011 12:33 Coagulation wrote:
Heres the list of newbs and vets in the game.
1. snotboogie Newb
2. Deconduo Vet
3. Kurumi NEWB LOL
4. curu Newb
5. RebirthofLegend Vet
6. Amber[LighT] Vet
7. hiro protagonist Newb
8. nisani201 Newb
9. Pyo Newb
10.Drazerk Newb
11. supersoft Newb
12. Jackal58 LOL
13. Mr. Wiggles Vet
14. prplhz Newb
15. mig Newb
16. notasmurf Newb
17. kenpachi LOL
18. Syllogism Newb
19. Palmar Newb
20. Sevryn Newb
21. ghrur Vet
22. Varysthespider Newb
23. node Vet
24, coagulation Vet
25. kavdragon Vet
26. Lucidity Newb
27. ketomai Newb
28. creamybutter Newb
29. redff Vet
30. youngminii Vet
31. liquid`nazgul Newb
32. Shraft Newb
33. cjrninja Newb
34. visceraeyes Newb
35. theawesomeall Newb
36. eternalmisfit Newb
37. zona Vet
38. gtrsrs Newb
39. ribboo Newb
40. sinani206 Newb

This list was pointless and all it served to do was belittle and intimidate the newer players from posting.
To that end, what is your agenda? The only objective this post served was to discourage newer players from posting which helps mafia force sheeping, which in a game this size is a considerable problem. To this end, I am voting for you.

##Vote Coagulation
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 18 2011 07:08 GMT
#413
I will be on irc/skype (text only though), feel free to spam me there
Drazerk
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom31255 Posts
July 18 2011 07:54 GMT
#414
Still reading through the thread etc, Ill post more later

Amber - Mig requested the list but the way Coag did it probably has some alternate motive behind it.

Redff/Curu - Don't be me in WaW2 it only ends badly, You have PMs try not to exceed 50 pages it makes doing an analysis a pain in the ass.
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22632 Posts
July 18 2011 07:57 GMT
#415
Curu chill with the personal attacks, calling someone drunk is pretty damn stupid. Call out his logic all you want, but keep it civil.

I'm always on IRC, feel free to message me. If I'm not around just leave a message and I'll contact you later.
Computer says mafia
Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
July 18 2011 07:58 GMT
#416
On July 18 2011 16:05 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2011 12:33 Coagulation wrote:
Heres the list of newbs and vets in the game.
1. snotboogie Newb
2. Deconduo Vet
3. Kurumi NEWB LOL
4. curu Newb
5. RebirthofLegend Vet
6. Amber[LighT] Vet
7. hiro protagonist Newb
8. nisani201 Newb
9. Pyo Newb
10.Drazerk Newb
11. supersoft Newb
12. Jackal58 LOL
13. Mr. Wiggles Vet
14. prplhz Newb
15. mig Newb
16. notasmurf Newb
17. kenpachi LOL
18. Syllogism Newb
19. Palmar Newb
20. Sevryn Newb
21. ghrur Vet
22. Varysthespider Newb
23. node Vet
24, coagulation Vet
25. kavdragon Vet
26. Lucidity Newb
27. ketomai Newb
28. creamybutter Newb
29. redff Vet
30. youngminii Vet
31. liquid`nazgul Newb
32. Shraft Newb
33. cjrninja Newb
34. visceraeyes Newb
35. theawesomeall Newb
36. eternalmisfit Newb
37. zona Vet
38. gtrsrs Newb
39. ribboo Newb
40. sinani206 Newb

This list was pointless and all it served to do was belittle and intimidate the newer players from posting.
To that end, what is your agenda? The only objective this post served was to discourage newer players from posting which helps mafia force sheeping, which in a game this size is a considerable problem. To this end, I am voting for you.

##Vote Coagulation


YES
HAHA
YADDA YADDA
##VOTE Coagulation THAT SCOUT IS SPY!
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
ketomai
Profile Joined June 2007
United States2789 Posts
July 18 2011 08:14 GMT
#417
I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing what basic mafia strategy would be.

Like others mentioned before, mafia wants chaos. An organized, secure town is the last thing the mafia wants, therefore, one must look for those attempting to point fingers, give extraneous information to cause that. Mafia must take risks in order to win the game, they can not be silent and lurk all the time.

That's why sticking to the truth as someone set as a rule before is valuable. Mafia must always lie, and if townies can not lie, it becomes obvious who is mafia in many situations (i.e. defending other mafia/themselves).
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
July 18 2011 08:16 GMT
#418
hi guys, I am Blackgate Criminal. I was told to lynch everyone of the Asylums employees as well as batman moblike style. Therefor:

##VOTE Coagulation

Rol and Kurumi didn't influence me there. I already decided to vote him when I read his post earlier: He's just giving us this list without any further comment. Pressurevote!
Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
July 18 2011 08:20 GMT
#419
On July 18 2011 17:16 supersoft wrote:
hi guys, I am Blackgate Criminal. I was told to lynch everyone of the Asylums employees as well as batman moblike style. Therefor:

##VOTE Coagulation

Rol and Kurumi didn't influence me there. I already decided to vote him when I read his post earlier: He's just giving us this list without any further comment. Pressurevote!

YOU BETTER HELP PUSH leetle CART!
I am [blue]Heavy Weapons Guy[blue] and some punk stole my weapon! My love! I'M GONNA KILL YOU WITH MY BARE HANDS YOU HEAR ME?
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
July 18 2011 08:20 GMT
#420
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Heavy Weapons Guy
YES!
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
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