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Active: 579 users

Links between anti-depressants and suicide?

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
BeautifulJudas
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
New Zealand33 Posts
June 03 2009 21:59 GMT
#1
Jade Pinkerton had an extreme personality change and tried to take her own life after taking a widely used antidepressant drug.

…

Mrs Pinkerton said she was put on Prozac in January last year for depression, which she attributes to a stressful job as a social worker. It was the first time the Wellington woman had had any psychological problems and she had never harmed herself nor thought about committing suicide.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10575446


What are you thoughts? Have you ever taken antidepressants? If so, what were their effects on you?

Related blog post: http://rubyjudas.wordpress.com/2009/05/30/antidepressants-lead-to-suicidal-behaviour/
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
16987 Posts
June 03 2009 22:05 GMT
#2
One case. No. N/A.
Moderator
XeliN
Profile Joined June 2009
United Kingdom1755 Posts
June 03 2009 22:06 GMT
#3
Never taken althrough my mum has been on seroxat for many years and would say it has helped her depression. I remember seeing a documentary on the dangerous side effects of "anti-depressants" one of which was that apparently they are a bitch to stop taking with bad side effects if attempted.
Adonai bless
jodogohoo
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada2533 Posts
June 03 2009 22:07 GMT
#4
inconclusive, one person is not enough
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
June 03 2009 22:12 GMT
#5
Even if one case was statistically significant, it would be nearly impossible to distinguish the correlation between anti-depressant use and suicide from a potential causal relationship between anti-depressant use and suicide (what the OP is suggesting).

And even if there did exist some causal relationship between anti-depressants and suicide (which seems highly implausible), coming down on anti-depressant use based on such a relationship would still be silly. I'll give an analogous argument which I hope will reveal why: "In some cases, antibiotics exacerbate the disease they were intended to fend off. Therefore, antibiotics don't work / nobody should use antibiotics to fight bacterial diseases".
✌
Lucktar
Profile Joined July 2008
United States526 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-03 22:18:13
June 03 2009 22:12 GMT
#6
I've been on antidepressants for about 2 years, and I've had no really significant side effects. To my understanding, the suicide risk works something like this:

Deeply depressed Bob is deeply depressed. Can't be arsed to do much of anything, but eventually gets some help and starts taking antidepressants.

The antidepressants start to kick in and stir Bob out of his listlessness after a while, but with a problem. Bob is still very depressed. Only now, he's got more motivation. That is to say, he is much more likely to act on those suicidal thoughts he's been contemplating than he was several weeks prior.

I didn't experience a scenario like this, but antidepressants affect different people very differently. It's always good if you're starting on antidepressants to avoid being alone constantly, and to let somebody know what's going on so they can check up on you. The suicidal tendencies are usually rather short-lived, but they do happen.


EDIT: Just wanted to add that although the OP only mentioned 1 instance of antidepressants leading to suicide, there have been a pretty decent number of reported cases, and many antidepressants now carry suicide warnings on the packaging info.
NaDa, much, ZerO fighting!
BC.WeaPonX
Profile Joined October 2004
Canada107 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-03 22:16:45
June 03 2009 22:15 GMT
#7
Read an article about it yesterday, basically saying that the drugs some how change the DNA in the brain, and of course, the drug companies are out to make a profit.

http://www.naturalnews.com/011353_drugs_Prozac_antidepressants.html
ok?
Gokey
Profile Joined November 2006
United States2722 Posts
June 03 2009 22:25 GMT
#8
On June 04 2009 07:12 Lucktar wrote:
I've been on antidepressants for about 2 years, and I've had no really significant side effects. To my understanding, the suicide risk works something like this:

Deeply depressed Bob is deeply depressed. Can't be arsed to do much of anything, but eventually gets some help and starts taking antidepressants.

The antidepressants start to kick in and stir Bob out of his listlessness after a while, but with a problem. Bob is still very depressed. Only now, he's got more motivation. That is to say, he is much more likely to act on those suicidal thoughts he's been contemplating than he was several weeks prior.

I didn't experience a scenario like this, but antidepressants affect different people very differently. It's always good if you're starting on antidepressants to avoid being alone constantly, and to let somebody know what's going on so they can check up on you. The suicidal tendencies are usually rather short-lived, but they do happen.


EDIT: Just wanted to add that although the OP only mentioned 1 instance of antidepressants leading to suicide, there have been a pretty decent number of reported cases, and many antidepressants now carry suicide warnings on the packaging info.


Post is very much true... When people are truely in severe depression, they don't have the motivation to do anything, even suicide.

Sometimes the antidepressants, in the mood upswing, give the person just enough motivation to actually carry out the suicide. This is something that is well known in the medical community.

There are countless lives that have been improved with antidepressants, but of course, the naysayers are always the loudest.
Cali
Profile Joined May 2009
139 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-12 18:59:56
June 03 2009 22:25 GMT
#9
--- Nuked ---
Lucktar
Profile Joined July 2008
United States526 Posts
June 03 2009 22:36 GMT
#10
On June 04 2009 07:15 BC.WeaPonX wrote:
Read an article about it yesterday, basically saying that the drugs some how change the DNA in the brain, and of course, the drug companies are out to make a profit.

http://www.naturalnews.com/011353_drugs_Prozac_antidepressants.html

As somebody that's worked in a state-run mental hospital, I think there's quite a few things wrong with that article. First, he essentially claims that antipsychotic drugs don't work, and effectively make people worse. Obviously, my first-person testimonials to the contrary don't hold a lot of weight on an internet forum, but there are a lot of cases that I've seen which prove that this simply isn't the case.

Second, he way waaay overstates the extent to which drugs are pushed on people by the mental health industry. A lot of people who end up in the mental hospital are highly drug-seeking, and will gobble down anything they can to get an altered mental state. Medication is something that's very tightly controlled (mainly because the government would get its ass sued off if it wasn't), and only one of several treatments that we use.

Finally, Robert Whitaker, the interviewee in the article, doesn't really offer a fair picture of the mental health industry as a whole. I'll be the first to admit that doctors and hospitals used to do some really fucked-up stuff to patients back in the day. And there are probably some who still do. But Whitaker doesn't ever make a distinction between his criticisms of the industry of 40 years ago, and his criticisms of the industry today. The result is a pretty slanted view of what's actually going on.
NaDa, much, ZerO fighting!
eMbrace
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States1300 Posts
June 03 2009 22:38 GMT
#11
man, taking a medication to cure a feeling. i still can't wrap my head around it. i know depression is an official diagnosis now, i just cant imagine not being able to get out of it.

Navane
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Netherlands2748 Posts
June 03 2009 22:43 GMT
#12
I think there is as much relation between antidepressivants and suicide as there is to hospitals and dying.

opsayo
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
591 Posts
June 03 2009 22:52 GMT
#13
On June 04 2009 07:38 eMbrace wrote:
man, taking a medication to cure a feeling. i still can't wrap my head around it. i know depression is an official diagnosis now, i just cant imagine not being able to get out of it.


It is hard to understand depression from an outsider's point of view. From the inside, the depressed knows that their line of thinking isn't the best, but it's hard to function when your brain is lying to you about life itself.

At the same time...
Depressive realism is the proposition that people with depression have a more accurate view of reality.

Studies by psychologists Alloy and Abramson (1979) and Dobson and Franche (1989) showed that depressed people appear to have a more realistic perception of their importance, reputation, locus of control, and abilities than those who are not depressed.

People without depression are more likely to have inflated self-images and look at the world through "rose-colored glasses", thanks to cognitive dissonance elimination and a variety of other defense mechanisms.

This does not necessarily imply that a happy person is delusional or deny that some depressed individuals may be unrealistically negative (as in studies by Pacini, Muir and Epstein, 1998).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism
keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
June 03 2009 22:52 GMT
#14
Depression spawns from the idea that other people have a better life than you.

THEY DON'T

LIFE IS HARD. DEAL.
"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
BeautifulJudas
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
New Zealand33 Posts
June 03 2009 22:57 GMT
#15
For those who are saying it's an isolated cases, there's further links dating back to 2003 of similar stories if you follow the blog link and see the comments - here's just another one of the stories:

Toran Henry was aware that his antidepressant drugs altered his personality.

"I know the Prozac I take changes me," the 17-year-old told a friend in an online conversation in May 2007. "It makes me hardout sleepy, and really angry when people do small things."

The teenager was first prescribed the antidepressant early in 2007 by Marinoto North, the youth mental health outpatient facility at North Shore Hospital. He was referred there following a self-harm attempt described as "superficial cuts" but which nevertheless resulted in a visit to the hospital's emergency department.

His second prescription was early in 2008. Once again, Toran knew what was going to happen. "It will be hard for both of us," he texted his girlfriend. "It's going to change my mood for a bit until I start feeling better." He tried to reassure his mother, Maria Bradshaw, too: "I promise not to get angry this time Mum."

Despite the apparent awareness, Toran didn't get better. "He seemed unable to control his anger and aggression the way he could when not on medication," says Bradshaw. Toran Henry died on March 20 last year. A coroner's inquest is yet to be completed.

Antidepressant usage by age.
Antidepressant usage by age.

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A year later, Bradshaw is still trying to find answers about her son's death. Such is her dedication to the cause there have been five investigations into the circumstances around Toran's death - by Takapuna Grammar School, the Education Review Office, internal and external reviews by Marinoto and a police investigation on behalf of the coroner.

But Bradshaw remains unconvinced that any of them have really understood the full picture - especially in relation to Toran's use of fluoxetine, the generic form of Prozac he was prescribed.

Everywhere she looks there are gaps and omissions. It took three tests to confirm there was Prozac in Toran's blood when he died. The autopsy report missed that Toran had a black eye and fresh scrapes on his knuckles from a fight the day before. Blood tests carried out by Marinoto showed a flag for diabetes, and a vitamin B12 deficiency, but nothing was done about it.

All through his medical files there was clear evidence of Toran being a substance abuser, mainly of alcohol and sometimes party pills, but no action was taken to deal with the problem. In May 2007, Toran was again admitted to the emergency care centre at North Shore Hospital.

He told the attending doctor he had taken 60mg of Prozac that morning - three times his prescribed dose - but no one seemed to think it might be significant. Contrary to Medsafe datasheets which say overdoses can be fatal, information provided by Marinoto advises that Prozac-type drugs "are safe in overdosage".

No one noticed the inaccuracy until Bradshaw told Medsafe in January.

Bradshaw says she's driven by a simple purpose: "To ensure the Coroner has all available information on which to carry out his statutory duty to determine the cause of Toran's death, identify the circumstances leading up to it and make recommendations to prevent future deaths."

It's the only way she can see for her son's death to have meaning.

But in reading hundreds of stories of other parents who had tried to get information out to the public about what had happened when their children began taking Prozac, she realised she needed to do something different.

She says the stories of families are dismissed with all sorts of rationalisations - because they're non-scientific, because they're grieving parents who are just trying to blame somebody else and not look at themselves, and because they are people who can't come to terms with their loss.

"Just telling my story I knew was going to be dismissed - as I have been over the last year as this crazy woman who is looking to blame everyone in the universe."

+ Show Spoiler +
Bradshaw's different tack was to apply her research skills and knowledge of the law - she graduated from Auckland University with an MBA in 2007 and worked as a court registrar in Dunedin and for Internal Affairs. The result is Lessons Learned From The Death Of Toran Tiavare Henry, a 161-page, footnoted document with appendices that reads like a bit like a thesis, which she released yesterday. The report spares no one, naming staff at Takapuna Grammar, Marinoto and elsewhere involved in Toran's care. It also lays out details about Toran's death that would normally be reserved for the coroner's hearing and "identifies deficiencies in my performance of my parental responsibilities which may have contributed to his death".

Her number one failure is that she "did not take all possible action to prevent Toran taking Prozac, which I believed was harmful to him". Bradshaw says while she monitored side-effects very closely, she should have ensured Toran did not overdose on the drug, or mix it with alcohol. Her son was among the thousands of New Zealanders prescribed anti-depressants. Pharmac figures show that in 2007/08, 1.2 million prescriptions were issued to adults, 14,733 for 6 to 18 year olds, and 72 for children aged five and under.

Bradshaw wishes she knew then what she now knows about the side effects of fluoxetine. She is particularly concerned that the psychiatrists she dealt with and the information she was given downplayed the risks.

No one told her, for example, that Prozac-type medications are not approved for use in New Zealand for people aged under 18 for the treatment of depression.

What that means, says medicines regulator Medsafe, is that informed consent must be obtained from the patient or parent prior to Prozac-type antidepressant treatment in children or adolescents. Informed consent also means properly outlining all the risks and side effects associated with the drugs - for example that overdoses can be fatal, or cause potentially fatal effects such as cardiac arrest.

What's important too, is that parents are told about the differences between approved and unapproved or "off-label" uses.

Information pamphlets given to Toran and his mother advocated a number of off-label uses including for autism, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, and bed-wetting.

Medsafe was concerned the difference was not made clear. "Parents/carers should be informed when medicines are used outside of their approved use in order for them to make an informed decision as to whether the potential benefits of treatment outweigh the risks," said Medsafe senior pharmacovigilance adviser Susan Kenyon in a letter to Bradshaw.

In Toran's case, says Bradshaw, the prescription was off-label on two counts - Toran being under 18 and that he had not been clearly diagnosed with major depressive disorder, an authorised use of the drug for adults.

"Now that Medsafe has raised concerns about the accuracy of this document we will ensure that it is no longer handed out to patients," says Waitemata health board communications manager Lydia Aydon.

She was referring to a 2004 document, Antidepressants for Children and Youth, by child and adolescent psychiatrist professor John Werry.

Asked about another document, Antidepressant Medication: A Guide for Carers, produced by the Werry Centre for Child and Adolescent Mental Health at Auckland University, Aydon confirmed it, too, had been withdrawn.

She could not say what new information was being given to patients.

While the Werry Centre document was still available online on Friday, Werry Centre director of workforce development Sue Treanor said it was an old document and had been withdrawn.

"We are having a problem with Google cache which our web company is trying to rectify, meaning there are ghosts of withdrawn documents still in the system," she said.

Medsafe and the DHB were concerned about statements in the Werry Centre document that Prozac-type medications were "relatively safe in overdose, especially compared with older medications" and that the drugs had been "intensively studied over the last 25 years with no evidence of any long term problems arising from their use".

Medsafe group manager Dr Stewart Jessamine said there were still discrepancies with the current New Zealand data sheets.

"Vetting publications such as this does not fall under Medsafe's remit, so we will be informing the Medical Council, given this is a clinical practice issue rather than a product safety one," he said.

Jessamine said Medsafe was not responsible for material written and provided to patients by individual medical practitioners. Responsibility rested with the authors. So what exactly should parents know about the use of antidepressants for children?

Medsafe datasheets on the various drugs are a good place to start, although the language used may be difficult to understand.

But from Bradshaw's point of view, the warnings could have been more obvious.

In the United States Prozac-type drugs come with a "black box" label warning for something called activation syndrome, which the Marinoto external review panel agreed it was possible Toran had developed.

On the Medsafe datasheet under the heading "Warning: Clinical Worsening and Suicide Risk" it is described as including symptoms of anxiety, agitation, panic attacks, insomnia, irritability, hostility, aggressiveness, impulsivity and mania.

When Bradshaw raised concerns that Toran may have developed activation syndrome, she says she was told by a Marinoto doctor to "stop reading research and trust his professional judgment".

She wishes she had followed her instincts, done more research and sought a second opinion.
DeathSpank
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States1029 Posts
June 03 2009 22:58 GMT
#16
the link is depression...do I win?
yes.
BeautifulJudas
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
New Zealand33 Posts
June 03 2009 22:59 GMT
#17
On June 04 2009 07:25 Gokey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2009 07:12 Lucktar wrote:
I've been on antidepressants for about 2 years, and I've had no really significant side effects. To my understanding, the suicide risk works something like this:

Deeply depressed Bob is deeply depressed. Can't be arsed to do much of anything, but eventually gets some help and starts taking antidepressants.

The antidepressants start to kick in and stir Bob out of his listlessness after a while, but with a problem. Bob is still very depressed. Only now, he's got more motivation. That is to say, he is much more likely to act on those suicidal thoughts he's been contemplating than he was several weeks prior.

I didn't experience a scenario like this, but antidepressants affect different people very differently. It's always good if you're starting on antidepressants to avoid being alone constantly, and to let somebody know what's going on so they can check up on you. The suicidal tendencies are usually rather short-lived, but they do happen.


EDIT: Just wanted to add that although the OP only mentioned 1 instance of antidepressants leading to suicide, there have been a pretty decent number of reported cases, and many antidepressants now carry suicide warnings on the packaging info.


Post is very much true... When people are truely in severe depression, they don't have the motivation to do anything, even suicide.

Sometimes the antidepressants, in the mood upswing, give the person just enough motivation to actually carry out the suicide. This is something that is well known in the medical community.

There are countless lives that have been improved with antidepressants, but of course, the naysayers are always the loudest.


Oh, that's really interesting.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
June 03 2009 23:01 GMT
#18
On June 04 2009 07:52 keV. wrote:
Depression spawns from the idea that other people have a better life than you.

THEY DON'T

LIFE IS HARD. DEAL.


sometimes they can't deal. sometimes it's chemical imbalance. read about the damn subject before making comments.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
Foucault
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Sweden2826 Posts
June 03 2009 23:03 GMT
#19
You guys saying this isn't true are wrong.

Seroxat has been found to trigger suicidal thoughts in some people in UK and USA. There was a huge lawsuit filed against Glaxo Smith-Kline and there was big media coverage of this in the UK. This nice medical company withheld test results of the drug showing it didn't work as well.

Now Seroxat can't be prescribed to anyone under 18 in England. Not sure about other countries, but that doesn't mean the effects wouldn't be the same in someone over 18.
Anti-depressants are really sketchy and there are so many test results showing they work worse than placebo and have so many tough side-effects. The problem is that the medical companies keep these results hidden. Do the doctors take any interest in the fact that a disturbed sex life could easily worsen a depression if you're in relationship for instance?

Anti-depressants should only be prescribed in a minority of cases and not like some fucking candy for every other "depressed" person, who's depressed as a result of a faulty society. Depression just doesn't happen for most people, it's triggered through environmental influence.

Prescribing medication as a way of supressing symptoms that are there in the first place because of circumstances in your life is ridiculous and in many cases counter-productive imo. I've written an essay on the history of psychiatry and I can't even begin to mention how wrong it is to numb people out with these medications in this large global way. Yeah, if the medication actually worked totally awesome, had few side-effects and not brutal withdrawal, sure everyone would love these meds. But fact is they have hard side effects for many people, they are hard to quit and all they pretty much do is numb your feelings, and take away your sex drive completely. While that can be a effective SHORT TERM strategy in extreme cases, in no way do I advocate this wide-spread prescription of these drugs to so many people for a long time. It's ridiculous
I know that deep inside of you there's a humongous set of testicles just waiting to pop out. Let 'em pop bro. //////////////////// AKA JensOfSweden // Lee Yoon Yeol forever.
keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-03 23:05:46
June 03 2009 23:03 GMT
#20
On June 04 2009 08:01 chaoser wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2009 07:52 keV. wrote:
Depression spawns from the idea that other people have a better life than you.

THEY DON'T

LIFE IS HARD. DEAL.


sometimes they can't deal. sometimes it's chemical imbalance. read about the damn subject before making comments.


I'm deciding not to engage in this stupid topic. Let people keep feeding pharmaceutical companies billions of dollars rather than just watching someone do stand-up.

The idea that human life is so spectacular that it has to be lived to the nth degree is just something I don't agree with. There will be people who make history and people who die with nothing to their name. Its just nature in the end.
"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
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