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TL Mafia LXXIII: The Nutcracker

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-23 05:56:07
December 01 2015 01:26 GMT
#1
[image loading]


Blazinghand is cohosting. Please make sure you submit all night actions to both of us!

TL Mafia LXXIII: The Nutcracker




Current Status: Post-Game
This game has concluded in a town victory.


The Land of Sweets (Observer QT) is here.
The Floor Boards (Mafia QT) is here


Important Posts:
+ Show Spoiler [Important posts] +
Filters
Voting Thread
Mechanics and Setup

Day 1
Night 1
Day 2
Night 2
Day 3
Night 3
Day 4
Night 4 and Endgame


Flips:
+ Show Spoiler [Flips] +
Day 1: GlowingBear, a toy soldier, (Town Vanilla), has been lynched.
Night 1: ritoky, a chocolate bar, (Miller), has been nightkilled.
Day 2: Rels, a cup of coffee, (Wanderer), has been lynched.
Night 2: Koshi, a toy soldier, (Town Vanilla), has been nightkilled.
Night 2: kushm4sta, a toy soldier, (Town Vanilla), has been nightkilled.
Day 3: Vivax, the Rat King, (Mafia Roleblocker), has been lynched.
Night 3: GiygaS, the Sugar Plum Fairy, (1-shot Medic), has been nightkilled.

Day 4: Tubesock, the Mouse Queen, (Mafia Godfather), has conceded.
Day 4: Tictock, the rat footsoldier (Mafia Vanilla), has conceded.


Day 4: LightningStrike, as Clara Stahlbaum (Detective), has survived.
Day 4: Shapelog, as Fritz Stahlbaum, (Tracker, single shot), has survived.

Day 4: Damdred, a toy soldier (Town Vanilla), has survived.
Day 4: Sukrit, a toy soldier (Town Vanilla), has survived.


This game is a large normal with heavy flavour. Roles and most mechanics are standard; knowledge of the story is not required.

Ruleset:
Spoilered, however please review the rule changes with replacements and the resolution period.
The deadline will be standard 23:00 GMT (+00:00).

+ Show Spoiler [Ruleset] +

Introduction:


Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town. It's much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking. If the mafia at any time outnumber or equal the townspeople, they win. The town's goal is to lynch all the members of the mafia.

The game is typically very active, so the thread will get big quickly. However, it is essential to read the thread to play the game. If you do not have the time or patience to read the whole thread, do not play. I will not compensate for ignorance.

Rules:


Cheating:
Cheating includes (but is not limited to):
1. Posting after death. You may have one polite goodbye post, but it may not contain any potentially game-changing information.
2. Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town.
3. Logging on to someone else's account to get their role or looking over someone's shoulder to get their role.
4. Comparing role PM times to determine roles.
5. Posting screenshots of your inbox.
6. Posting or sharing any PM you receive from a host.
7. Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip.
8. Signing up more than once using smurf accounts.
9. Betting items outside of the game in exchange for in-game benefits.
10. Sharing accounts with other players unless cleared by the host in advance. Otherwise, only you may post on your account.

Cheating is not tolerated here. The punishment will be severe.

Posting:


Mod Font:
This is mod font. It is reserved for moderators. Please do not use it.

Question Font:
This is question font. You may use this font to ask the moderators anything BEFORE the game.
Absolutely do NOT ask any questions openly in thread in game as some questions may be alignment indicative.


Activity:
You must post in this thread TWICE per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. Failure to do so will result in a warning; a second offence will result in a modkill.

Smurfs/Hydras:
I will allow smurfing. Please send me a PM with who you are playing as. Hydras will not be permitted.

Post Restriction Rules:
PLEASE NOTE PENDING VOTE.

Spam is not tolerated, nor is any off-topic material. Do not discuss Proleague here. Do not talk about Starcraft II here. Play Mafia here. This also means you should condense your posts when possible. 15 one-liners in 30 minutes is unacceptable.

Encryption:
Don't do it.

Editing:
Editing is not allowed for any reason. Editing will result in a warning. If we discover you to have changed any content, you will be modkilled. This includes posts where you have embedded an image, changing the image is tantamount to changing the post. This is the one part of the site where it is okay to be double posting, even triple-posting. While I ask for everybody to post as concisely as possible, post again using the acronym (EBWOP: Edit by way of posting) if you want to clarify/correct something you just posted.

Inappropriate posts:
If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. If you do, a host will warn you or modkill you and request that you be banned from future games. The hosts have the final say on what is inappropriate. If you do not like how someone is talking to you, please PM a host or Foolishness before involving the TL staff. If you are unsatisfied with how the situation is resolved, then you can appeal to the TL staff normally.

Ban discussions:
Please wait until this game is over to talk about modkills and bans resulting from this game.

Play to win.
This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing.

This also means that you cannot leave the game without a good reason without a ban. These situations will be dealt with on a case by case basis. PM me or the co-hosts if you need to leave the game.

You have been warned.

Voting rules:


This game uses plurality lynch. The player with most votes at deadline will be lynched.
1. Voting is done in the voting thread. The voting thread is linked under the important posts. Please keep votes there, and only vote there. Do not PM me your vote.
2. Please vote in the following format: ##vote: Half the Sky. Votes not done in the correct fashion will not be counted. I or my co-host will update vote counts whenever we get the chance.
3. If you change your vote, please ##unvote before posting another vote (can be done in the same post).
4. No conditional voting.
5. You may not vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game.
6. You may not vote for a no-lynch.
7. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain. Failure to vote will result in a modkill.

Signups:


There is no minimum experience required for this game. The minimum number of players we aim for is 17, with a maximum of 25.

The hosts also reserve the right to deny participation to those individuals that are known to disrupt the playing experience for others. If we also receive more than three (behaviour based) objections on a specific player, we will most likely not allow that individual to play. We want everyone to have a positive experience playing on TL regardless of their skill level.

Game-specific rules:


Modkills:
This game follows the TL Mafia Ban List. If you are modkilled, your punishment will go beyond being eliminated from this game. Please refer to it for questions about your punishment. If you want to use this game to sit out your ban, please PM us and post in the Ban List.

Behaviour:
1 Simply put, do not be a dick. We will pre-warn, warn or modkill you if you approach or cross the line. I am specifically most against personal attacks. These games are meant to be fun for everyone; play the game, but don't ruin the experience.
2 Racist/homophobic/sexist commentary or similar will result in a direct modkill.
There is no place for such here, and success as any alignment can be done without.
3 Absolutely, positively, no discussion about other concurrent games in this thread. This can affect other games and is unacceptable. You may discuss players' activities external of TL Mafia, but do not discuss any play in any other ongoing game. Violation of this rule will result in a warning; subsequent offences will result in a modkill.

Replacements:
There will be no replacements this game. Please be absolutely sure you can play this game before committing.

Clues:
There are no clues. The storyline in my game and depiction of any roles or music in the ballet are for entertainment purposes only.

PMs:
PMs are not allowed in this game, with the exception of the scumteam and masons.
No out-of-thread communication of any sort is allowed for other players.
The scumteam and masons, if any, will be provided their respective QTs to communicate in.

Coaches:
Because there is a newbie game in progress, there are no coaches allowed for this game.

Shadows:
I will permit shadows this game. If you shadow a player, I will provide a separate QT for you and your shadow. If your player happen to RNG into the scumteam, you will not have access to scum QT.

Observers:
Please PM the hosts for the Observer QT once the game has started, otherwise, type /obs in the signup thread.

Time Cycle:
This game will follow a 23+1 hour night/48 hour day-cycle.
The deadline is 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
Please note I am interpreting the deadline as xx:59 and I will not accept votes/actions at xx:00.
Do not post after the deadline. Any alignment relevant information posted after the deadline and before the flip will result in a modkill.
The game will resume when the night post is up.
There is a mafia resolution period of 1 hour for night actions. (Blue roles will have until 1 hour prior to night's end to submit actions; scumteam until end of night.)

Credits:
Thanks to pretty much every TL mafia player/host/mod/etc who has hosted and revised rulesets/guidance.
I would also like to thank my awesome and amazing co-host Blazinghand for co-hosting. Much <3
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-23 05:47:12
December 01 2015 01:26 GMT
#2
Signups and Filters


Hosts: Half the Sky and Blazinghand

1 GiygaS, killed night 3
2 Koshi, killed night 2
3 Rels, lynched day 2
4 Tubesock, conceded day 4
5 GlowingBear, lynched day 1
6 Vivax, lynched day 3
7 Sukrit, survived day 4
8 kushm4sta, killed night 2
9 Damdred, survived day 4
10 Shapelog, survived day 4
11 ritoky, killed night 1
12 Tictock, conceded day 4
13 LightningStrike, survived day 4

Observers
1 Fidei86
2 disformation
3 NocturneMage
4 Trfel

Sitouts
1 Bill Murray
2
3
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-06 19:35:06
December 01 2015 01:27 GMT
#3
Cast of Characters


This game will be a semi-open setup. Possible extent of roles is known, but not the exact number.


Clara Stahlbaum

[image loading]
Here, there and everywhere with the help of soldiers, you meet the Nutcracker Prince and help to conquer and destroy the rat army! Your insight allows to see potential intentions of the soldiers.

You submit alignment checks for each night. Each night you target someone, and you're told if the alignment of your target is the same or different as your previous successful check. Your N1 check doesn't return anything, but is necessary for your N2 check to work. You can't check yourself. If roleblocked, your previous check is your last active check. You win with the town.


Fritz Stahlbaum

[image loading]
As Clara’s brother, he’s always on her tail. In fact he’s always on everyone’s tail, so often that he can see what people do at night.

Fritz can submit the name of a person and see who that person visits each night.


Uncle Drosselmeyer

[image loading]
He visits the Stahlbaum family, providing lots of toys. But his age lends him to a wisdom the children simply don’t know yet.

Drosselmeyer can survive one KP on any given night. If KP are stacked, he dies. If he is roleblocked, his protection is rendered useless.


The Nutcracker Prince

[image loading]
The leader of the soldiers, he has the ability to save his friends and tank his enemies, all whilst commanding the field.

Each night you can select a target to preserve from the rat army. The player will be protected but will not be able to take action.


The Sugar Plum Fairy

[image loading]
An everlasting provider of sweets and good tidings, this fairy tops off the medicine with a spoonful of sugar to keep the blues away.

Each night you can submit the name of a player, who will then be saved from all KP that night. No limit on consecutive saves and you may not save yourself.


Harlequin and Columbine

[image loading]
Two of the dolls in the fanciest doll collection, they are closely acquainted and are able to dance the night away without anyone noticing.

The pair of dolls are confirmed to each other and can communicate with each other privately.


The Cavalier

[image loading]
The Cavalier, a partner of the Sugar Plum Fairy is her protector as well and will do what he can to stop any shenanigans in his tracks.

Each night you may submit the name of a player. That person will not be able to take action for the night.


Chocolate (Spanish Dancers)

[image loading]
Chocolate is everywhere, and so are the Spanish dancers, dancing through the night to Clara’s delight.

Each night you visit a player at random. You are not aware. You will not be notified of whom you visit.


Coffee (Arabian Dancers)

[image loading]
Coffee dances in the night, but the caffeine may wreak havoc on the body of a child, such to the point it affects their behaviour.

You return a mafia alignment or equivalent to DT checks. You are not aware.


Soldiers

[image loading]
All for one, and one for all. Join forces led by the Nutcracker Prince and defeat the rat army! You win with your voice and vote.

You have no special powers, and you win with the town.


The Mouse Queen

[image loading]
The mother of the evil Rat King herself she is well versed in evil and evasiveness.

The Mouse Queen maintains complete and total immunity to alignment checks and tracker checks. She returns town alignment to a DT check.


The Rat King

[image loading]
The leader of the rat army, he can throw a monkey wrench into the plans of anyone and everyone.

The Rat King is quite the annoyance as his antics can hamper a player long enough to render them useless for the evening.


The Owl

[image loading]
The owl wreaks havoc on the innocent children of Christmas, eating gingerbread men without anyone being the wiser. And they are innocuous enough that others can be mistaken for the crime.

The owl can submit the name of a player who will return the opposite of their original alignment. He may take action on himself.


The Rotten Child

[image loading]
She’s spoilt like mad but because her parents treat her like the princess she thinks she is, she can get away snooping on the other children.

This brat’s abilities allow her to submit the name of a player each night to reveal their role.


The Rat Army

[image loading]

Led by the Rat King, your duty is to carry out havoc…

…and KP if you so choose.

The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-13 22:26:12
December 01 2015 01:27 GMT
#4
Game Mechanics and Setup


1 There are no notifications unless absolutely necessary.
2 There are no alignment changing mechanics.
3 There are no third party roles.
4 A mafia powerrole may carry KP and use their ability on someone else simultaneously.
5 The roleblockers resolve simultaneously. Any applicable secondary abilities will be stopped.
6 The veteran is roleblockable.
7 KP from opposing factions resolve simultaneously.
8 If a player with a gun shoots and is roleblocked, their bullet is not refundable.

Mafia KP = 1kp
KP must be delivered by individuals and subject to RB/tracking rules.


Special Mechanic: Gifts of the Sugar Plum Fairy


To entertain Clara, the Sugar Plum Fairy presents her with a series of dances and sweets as presents. Players will receive a certain number of gifts (dependent on balance/signups) at random. Each gift can contain any of the following abilities:

- 1-shot vigilante
- 1-shot gunsmith
- 1-shot rolecheck
- 1-shot watcher
- a visit to the person who gets nightkilled for one night
- returning the opposite alignment to a DT check for one night
- 1-shot garlic (making someone untrackable for one night)

Not all abilities are guaranteed to be in play. Players who are randomed the presents will receive them at the beginning of day 1. For flavour purposes, they will be named after various forms of candy. They have until the end of the day to PM the host if they want to keep them or pass them to another player of their choice for the night. Recipients may choose whether to open the presents or pass them off to someone else for the next day. If a recipient fails to notify the host, the gift is RNGed to another player for the next day.

The garlic is a passive and cannot be passed, it works in the same effect as the wanderer and miller effects.

All abilities above can be roleblocked and are nonrefundable except for the gunsmith's ability to pass off the gun.


Limited shot, and Multishot Dynamics: All blue roles except for the veteran are available in the following configurations: 1-shot, 2-shot, and multishot. A single shot means you can only use your power once. 2-shot means it can only be used twice. Multishot means it can be used as many times as you want. If you are 1- or 2-shot, and you are roleblocked, your shot is refunded (except for the roleblocker, which will resolve simultaneously). Role PMs will be prefixed with 1-shot or 2-shot if you are 1-shot or 2-shot, and will have no prefix if you are multishot.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
December 01 2015 01:31 GMT
#5
Poll: Post-restriction (5 pages/filter per cycle)

Yes, please (7)
 
58%

No preference (4)
 
33%

No way (1)
 
8%

12 total votes

Your vote: Post-restriction (5 pages/filter per cycle)

(Vote): Yes, please
(Vote): No way
(Vote): No preference



Quick poll - please vote only if you intend on playing. We're in the holiday season, and people may not want to dig through a spammy game. Pretty simple.

If a decent majority vote yes, I'm looking at 5 pages/filter per cycle, post donations (per Ver) up to 15 posts allowed per player. Filters allow us to keep track of this as has done past games.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
GiygaS
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada1043 Posts
December 01 2015 04:48 GMT
#6
On May 18 2013 10:14 GiygaS wrote:
this was my first game back in a whiiiiiiiile (won't be that long for the next one though)


Well that worked out well. Whatever, giggles reporting for duty /in
AKA gigyas, gigas, giygas khan, giyga khan, giyga...
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38797 Posts
December 01 2015 04:52 GMT
#7
/in

voted yes in the page restriction poll. 5 pages is a shitton. I will also not make any more posts in pre game.
I had a good night of sleep.
Rels
Profile Joined August 2008
France13467 Posts
December 01 2015 08:44 GMT
#8
/in
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
December 01 2015 18:43 GMT
#9
sitting out
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
December 01 2015 18:46 GMT
#10
Bill Murray, I have your sit out. Everyone else, I will update signups and roles tonight.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Tubesock
Profile Joined April 2011
United States2726 Posts
December 01 2015 19:16 GMT
#11
/in
GlowingBear
Profile Joined May 2014
Brazil12446 Posts
December 01 2015 21:12 GMT
#12
/in
I'm adorable.
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
December 02 2015 14:21 GMT
#13
Roles/mechanics have been updated. If there are any questions about anything, this is the time to ask them.

Any policies regarding post-restriction, should it go into effect will be clarified before the silence period.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
December 02 2015 17:10 GMT
#14
I have three TL mafia games under my belt, the only forum games I have ever played. All of which were newbie. So bear with me when I ask this stuff...

(1) what the hell is a watcher
(2) I thought a vigilante and a gunsmith were the same thing? they are listed differently here? I observed Gaiden and there was a gunsmith that shot someone?
(3) I do not understand the Clara role at all. why does the cop not get any check for night 1? I guess she tried to nerf it?
(4) What is the purpose of the harlequin/columbine roles? do they actually do anything at night? or is it they can only talk at night?
(5) Is the garlic used on the person who opens the gift that night
(6) can the prince (jailkeeper) jail someone twice in a row or is that just for the sugar fairy (medic) role?
(7) are roleblocks even notified this game? the OP doesn't say.
(8) can the owl (framer) use his ability on himself? OP doesn't say.

also keep in mind I know dick all about setups and some of these roles don't look like they were ever used in newbies.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-02 18:42:21
December 02 2015 18:39 GMT
#15
On December 03 2015 02:10 NocturneMage wrote:
I have three TL mafia games under my belt, the only forum games I have ever played. All of which were newbie. So bear with me when I ask this stuff...

(1) what the hell is a watcher
(2) I thought a vigilante and a gunsmith were the same thing? they are listed differently here? I observed Gaiden and there was a gunsmith that shot someone?
(3) I do not understand the Clara role at all. why does the cop not get any check for night 1? I guess she tried to nerf it?
(4) What is the purpose of the harlequin/columbine roles? do they actually do anything at night? or is it they can only talk at night?
(5) Is the garlic used on the person who opens the gift that night
(6) can the prince (jailkeeper) jail someone twice in a row or is that just for the sugar fairy (medic) role?
(7) are roleblocks even notified this game? the OP doesn't say.
(8) can the owl (framer) use his ability on himself? OP doesn't say.

also keep in mind I know dick all about setups and some of these roles don't look like they were ever used in newbies.
I guess I'll take this one. Keep in mind that I have no clue what I'm talking about and probably shouldn't answer XD

1) A watcher is a town power role. Each night, they target a person, and at the start of the day they learn the names of all people who visited that person last night. But not their alignments, and not what action they performed. So they'd see the mafia night kill, mafia power roles, town power roles, wandering townie, etc.

2) A vigilante shoots someone. A gunsmith gives a gun to a player at night, and the player can fire the gun the next night (one shot only). I'm guessing that the gunsmith can't give the gun to themself.

3) Clara is a parity cop, not an alignment cop. Parity cops tell you whether the alignment of the person you checked is the same or different as the alignment of the person you checked last night.

4) Harlequin and Columbine are masons. No special powers other than being confirmed to each other and having a QT to talk in at all times.

5) My guess is yes, though I really don't know about this and probably shouldn't say anything XD

6) The jailkeeper can jail the same person any number of times in a row. The limit to once in a row is (I believe) to weaken the medic so that it can't infinitely protect a power role, jailkeeper already nullifies the use of the power role so that's less relevant.

7) Roleblocks won't be notified, roleblock notification is stupid ^^ Plus it's a Half the Sky game.

8) Generally, the framer can self-frame. That seems to be indicated by the OP.

Edit: With regards to posting restrictions....

I personally feel that post donations just cause a huge mess. Not so much counting the posts, but it creates a really annoying amount of analysis, trying to figure out everyone's motivations for donating posts. Also, players don't tend to follow the post donations rule (like the limits for posts that can be given away, etc), and without extremely harsh moderator actions (which would likely break the game) IMO the whole point of the posting limit is kind of ruined.

I'd prefer a strict posting limit with no donations or an unenforced post amount suggestion.
kushm4sta
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States8878 Posts
December 02 2015 23:30 GMT
#16
watching the nutcracker ballet was the most boring experience of my life
OMGUS.net, kush sex blogs every friday night
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
21959 Posts
December 03 2015 20:49 GMT
#17
/in
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-04 17:47:46
December 04 2015 17:47 GMT
#18
Trfel, cheers. I'll wait for the mods to get back to me on (5).

I'm guessing from (7), HTS generally disallows RB notifications in all her games. (why are they "stupid" though?)

I am very pro post-restriction, limit looks reasonable.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 04 2015 18:11 GMT
#19
On December 05 2015 02:47 NocturneMage wrote:
Trfel, cheers. I'll wait for the mods to get back to me on (5).

I'm guessing from (7), HTS generally disallows RB notifications in all her games. (why are they "stupid" though?)

I am very pro post-restriction, limit looks reasonable.
Half the Sky uses notifications only when necessary, after I posted I found that in the OP (oh yeah, I just remembered that I can edit posts XD).

Notifications are dumb because there's no reason for them. It creates stupid notification claim arguments, adds to setup speculation, and makes mafia not want to use their roles (why give roles that you don't want to use...). Palmar games are always like this (notifications only when necessary).

The only potential problem is moderator error; ie they forget to give the cop their check, and the cop just assumes they're roleblocked.
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25550 Posts
December 04 2015 19:01 GMT
#20
On December 05 2015 03:11 Trfel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2015 02:47 NocturneMage wrote:
Trfel, cheers. I'll wait for the mods to get back to me on (5).

I'm guessing from (7), HTS generally disallows RB notifications in all her games. (why are they "stupid" though?)

I am very pro post-restriction, limit looks reasonable.
Half the Sky uses notifications only when necessary, after I posted I found that in the OP (oh yeah, I just remembered that I can edit posts XD).

Notifications are dumb because there's no reason for them. It creates stupid notification claim arguments, adds to setup speculation, and makes mafia not want to use their roles (why give roles that you don't want to use...). Palmar games are always like this (notifications only when necessary).

The only potential problem is moderator error; ie they forget to give the cop their check, and the cop just assumes they're roleblocked.


Not really paying attention to this convo but just pointing out there's no reason not to send a cop a PM that says "no result" as the standard thing to do when a cop is roleblocked, or even "you were roleblocked". If this is the default is no RB notifications, that's fine, but when a cop is RBed, you send him a PM letting him know. From a game information perspective this is not different than just not sending him a PM, and prevents confusion.
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