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[Updated] WCS Region Lock Confusion (Korea)

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33347 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-09 14:28:52
April 06 2013 17:16 GMT
#1
Confusion over the WCS region selection/locking policy system continues nearly a week after the official announcement of the tournament. At the time of the WCS announcement, the policy appeared to be that players selecting Korea as their region in season 1 would be allowed to change their region before the start of Season 2. However, several players and team affiliates soon began to state they had been told they could not change regions at all, or that they had trouble getting any clear information.

In Blizzard Community Manager Cloaken's Reddit Q&A, the only public statement regarding the matter, appeared to clear things up for for good.

We too agree that Korean players currently playing in GSL were put in a difficult situation regarding making a year-long commitment to a WCS league as GSL started right on the heels of our announcement. With this being the case, we will be making a one-time exception at the end of Season 1 to allow players to make a change in their regional commitments for the rest of 2013. If a player currently playing in GSL would like to make a change at that time then they will be able to do so. We will have more information on exactly how this process will work well in advance of the conclusion of Season 1.


However, information suggesting that the Q&A is incorrect is emerging. Following SK_MC's elimination from Code S, Gamespot journalist Slasher and Evil Geniuses' HuK had the following exchange on twitter.


‏@Slasher:
Woke up just missing DRG eliminating MC from #WCS KR. Huge win for DRG. MC to USA/EU soon enough?
‏@LorangerChris: He cant swap now, its to late
‏@Slasher: I thought as clarified in the AMA, you are allowed one exception
@LorangerChris i was told i cant play code a, and code s players in korea cant change even if they wanted to


Furthermore, a different account from other sources state that the a season 2 region change has been offered to KR region players on the condition that they make the decision immediately, and not at the end of season 1 as previously reported.



Originally, it appeared that the policy was that players choosing the Korean region in Season 1 (the current season lasting until June) would be allowed a one-time-only opportunity to change their region at the end of the season. This was told to Korean teams in materials sent out before the April 3rd WCS announcement, and was said by GSL director Mr. Chae during the first broadcast of WCS Korea GSL. However, multiple pro-gamers and esports related persons made statements suggesting that this was straight out incorrect, or that there was difficulty finding any clear information.

Acer's Scarlett made the following post in her fanclub.
On April 06 2013 07:38 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2013 06:56 Relentless` wrote:
I know some of you guys were speculating / wondering what her direction might be with all the new WCS stuff as well as some of the foreign tournaments. I'm about to watch the new Khaldor interview, but you can read here and she addresses some of those questions down near the bottom of their GSTL match review:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406447

P.S. Scarlett is a boss and I think i'll spend just a few more minutes relishing in the original AxiomAcer vs IM GSTl thread comments section where everything was initially "MVP ALLKILL INCOMING" and "SCARLETT WILL GET SMASHED". What up now blind ppl!

EDIT: Yep - check out that new awesome Khaldor interview too. They cover a good bit on it as well.

i talked in the IRC that since we were told today it was changed to not be able to switch region, i might end up not playing code a quals afterall


Western Wolves' Martijn also posted on the topic.
On April 06 2013 17:46 Martijn wrote:
Just to go on record, a lot of us knew nothing about WCS until it was announced and for many teams there's still a lot of uncertainty.

It's been extremely hard to get any details about the structure, dates and regulations around WCS. The only ones that have been responsive to us are ESL (thanks) and even in that line of communication there's a lot of confusion.

We have SortOf in Korea right now and Blizzard basically dropped the announcement on us, meaning we have 10 days or something to get him back to EU if he wants to compete there. I don't know how every team functions of course, but our plans are set for a lot longer than 10 days. We have players that were planning to attend the Code A qualifiers and now suddenly there's the question of whether they should.

At first we were told that if you competed in code A qualifiers, you were instantly locked in for the year. Then came the exception that people in Korea would be allowed to switch after the first season. Then the EU side of things told us there was no such exception. Then we were told there was such an exception but it only applied to Koreans and not foreigners in Korea. Then we were told it applied to everyone in the first Korean season. Now we're not sure whether they're locked in or not...

...We have manager chats on skype and people are just scrambling to pick up scraps of new information

tl;dr: Many teams got no notice. It's been extremely hard to get the information we need. There's 0 clarity.


Total Biscuit expressed concern on reddit as well:

This whole thing is a goddamn mess. I have contacts at Blizzard yet I'm still not 100% sure about how this thing is working. The information we got came through Gamespot and appears to be incomplete. Pretty much all Korean players were confused as hell about it and most were under the impression that competing in WCS KR would ban you from playing MLG and IEM events (some even thought ALL foreign events).

The reality of the situation now seems to be, if you're in Code S right now you have an inherent advantage going into Season 1 of WCS KR and due to forced equivalency in WCS which now says "hey, GSL is now the same as WCS NA and EU", a lot of Korean players are very upset. They're saying "what's the point in trying to work hard to get into GSL now? WCS NA and EU have the same prizemoney and are much easier, plus we get to go to foreign events." Not only that but if WCS is held at IEM and MLG events in parallel with the main tournament (which we don't know yet), then competing in WCS NA or EU gives you double the chance of attending a foreign tournament, which is very desirable to Korean players since they like to travel to different countries and those tournaments are easier and shorter yet reward you more often than not with more prizemoney.

It's becoming abundantly clear that the difference between the way WCS KR and WCS NA/EU are operated is actually a problem for Korean players. It's meaning less events for them in terms of GSL and OSL tournaments (though hopefully GOM and OGN will put on side events to make up for this) and also devaluing the GSL in the eyes of many Korean players. Can you blame em? Why play KR when you can play NA and slap some foreigners around for the same amount of money? WCS KR is going to be ridiculously hard, NA and EU? Less so. This would have been perhaps less of an issue if participation in WCS NA/EU required physical residency, then you get a few players like Polt and ForGG playing in their respective regions of residency, rather than a flood of Code Bs coming in and taking over the regions. Plus hey, you gotta pick, so if you pick and then don't actually get into WCS KR, you can't suddenly switch around and change your mind. Other way around applies to, wanna play in GSL? Then you have to pick WCS KR and you're locked in there outside of this one-time change they're gonna give you at the end of Season 1.

Add to that the rumors of a significant, lengthy offline portion of the event rather than just a short weekend tournament and the whole thing is just one big mess right now, not to mention they sprung it on people with very short notice.


Liquid`Nazgul commented on the matter in this thread as well

On April 07 2013 07:17 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
If you don't join Europe or North America now it means you can't be Premier League in season two either. Because if you join next season you will have to start at the bottom which means a season of Challenger league before you can get to up and downs. This is pretty brutal for players who are already part of WCS KR by being in GSL. It also means the decision for all the others is really hard, because previously everyone thought you could at least play one season of WCS KR and make up your mind after.

This whole thing is so complicated, and not having all the information makes it incredibly hard. The search for information has kept us busy the past couple days. Small bits are trickling in depending on who you ask at which organization, but other information simply isn't going to come at all. I want to make the best decisions for my team together with my players, but right now it seems I may as well be playing roulette.


Whatever the case is, it's imperative that the situation be clarified so that players and teams can make important decisions. Unfortunately, with the Code A qualifiers beginning tomorrow morning in Korea, it may already be too late.
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
April 06 2013 17:24 GMT
#2
New system with comes a lot of shoving to make it fit in everyone's schedule (MLG, EU and Korean tournament organizers + teams participating in foreign leagues [EGTL, WW, etc.) as well as players traveling (America, Korea, EU).

This is pretty much expected that a lot lose out to lay way for the new road of consistent scheduling and timeline.

It's sad to see and read this, but it was expected as well.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Aeromi
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
France14456 Posts
April 06 2013 17:33 GMT
#3
That's sad for players. :/
https://twitter.com/DrAeromi | Updates on live tournaments: @StarCrafteSport
Shawngood
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany473 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-06 17:56:41
April 06 2013 17:34 GMT
#4
Blizzard will make an exception to allow all GSL Season 1 players to make a one-time switch if they want to after Season 1 in Korea.

Whatever misunderstanding or misinformation was done here - if Blizzard announces something the way they did with this, then it holds true.

European teams with players currently residing in Korea should be aware that EU WCS and NA WCS will be starting in only a couple of weeks though. Their players would have to play with bad ping from Korea if they decide to stay there and wish to qualify for WCS EU or NA.
@ESL_Shawn
Prplppleatr
Profile Joined May 2011
United States1518 Posts
April 06 2013 17:35 GMT
#5
On April 07 2013 02:24 Torte de Lini wrote:
New system with comes a lot of shoving to make it fit in everyone's schedule (MLG, EU and Korean tournament organizers + teams participating in foreign leagues [EGTL, WW, etc.) as well as players traveling (America, Korea, EU).

This is pretty much expected that a lot lose out to lay way for the new road of consistent scheduling and timeline.

It's sad to see and read this, but it was expected as well.

While it is expected for people to, essentially, get screwed in a period of transition; the lack of cohesive organization and information is ridiculous. If there were so many things undecided about a tournament, which has already started, then why has it started so soon? We still know nothing about EU and NA, other than it's a GSL format with ESL and MLG running it, and the korean scene obviously has it's own problems.

This seems very rushed and half-hearted. We can only hope that information comes out sooner than later.
🥇 Prediction Contest - Mess with the best, die like the rest.
lord_nibbler
Profile Joined March 2004
Germany591 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-06 17:47:24
April 06 2013 17:44 GMT
#6
Necessary growing pains IMHO.

Also, I do not 'fear a Code B migration' at all, because it does not make sense given the economic background of most Korean teams. A fact that is sadly overlooked by the majority of doomsayers here on TL.
Why would Korean-only sponsors like KT, SK or Woongjin have any interests in sending players abroad? They do not sell their products there.

I can see MC and MMA transfer to Europe because that is where their sponsors are focused and maybe Red Bull might wish for Bomber and some other IM players to come to NA. But for most Korean players unaffiliated with foreign sponsorship playing outside of Korea is not an option financially.
Proseat
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Germany5113 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-06 21:11:17
April 06 2013 17:49 GMT
#7
Where are you, Blizzard, to make your system clear to everyone!?

Didn't they also want to do an AMA on reddit to answer all questions regarding WCS? Have not seen that yet. There are so many questions still, for instance, whether GSL and OSL are interconnected or not and what that special Ro32 Bo1 format exception for OSL really means.

I know you guys read TL, so let me tell you, I am disappointed, Blizzard! Get on it!

Questions that need answers: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18220168
The Rise and Fall of SlayerS -- a timeline: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=378097
Shawngood
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany473 Posts
April 06 2013 17:49 GMT
#8
On April 07 2013 02:44 lord_nibbler wrote:
Necessary growing pains IMHO.

Also, I do not 'fear a Code B migration' at all, because it does not make sense given the economic background of most Korean teams. A fact that is sadly overlooked by the majority of doomsayers here on TL.
Why would Korean-only sponsors like KT, SK or Woongjin have any interests in sending players abroad? They do not sell their products there.

I can see MC and MMA transfer to Europe because that is where their sponsors are focused and maybe Red Bull might wish for Bomber and some other IM players to come to NA. But for most Korean players unaffiliated with foreign sponsorship playing outside of Korea is not an option financially.

This posting is right on the money. A lot of people don't seem to realize how much of an investment it is to send a player abroad.
@ESL_Shawn
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33347 Posts
April 06 2013 17:50 GMT
#9
On April 07 2013 02:49 Shawngood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2013 02:44 lord_nibbler wrote:
Necessary growing pains IMHO.

Also, I do not 'fear a Code B migration' at all, because it does not make sense given the economic background of most Korean teams. A fact that is sadly overlooked by the majority of doomsayers here on TL.
Why would Korean-only sponsors like KT, SK or Woongjin have any interests in sending players abroad? They do not sell their products there.

I can see MC and MMA transfer to Europe because that is where their sponsors are focused and maybe Red Bull might wish for Bomber and some other IM players to come to NA. But for most Korean players unaffiliated with foreign sponsorship playing outside of Korea is not an option financially.

This posting is right on the money. A lot of people don't seem to realize how much of an investment it is to send a player abroad.


it's also largely unrelated to the OP? I don't know if either of you read it
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
_SpiRaL_
Profile Joined December 2012
Afghanistan1636 Posts
April 06 2013 17:51 GMT
#10
I assume given the confusion and basically how terrible a decision it would be to have any other way, that this season of WCS in terms of GSL does not count towards the lock. All players will be able to choose after this season is over. Because this season was already in place before the big changes you just cannot do it any other way.
Red and yellow are all I see
Lukeeze[zR]
Profile Joined February 2006
Switzerland6838 Posts
April 06 2013 17:52 GMT
#11
On April 07 2013 02:49 Shawngood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2013 02:44 lord_nibbler wrote:
Necessary growing pains IMHO.

Also, I do not 'fear a Code B migration' at all, because it does not make sense given the economic background of most Korean teams. A fact that is sadly overlooked by the majority of doomsayers here on TL.
Why would Korean-only sponsors like KT, SK or Woongjin have any interests in sending players abroad? They do not sell their products there.

I can see MC and MMA transfer to Europe because that is where their sponsors are focused and maybe Red Bull might wish for Bomber and some other IM players to come to NA. But for most Korean players unaffiliated with foreign sponsorship playing outside of Korea is not an option financially.

This posting is right on the money. A lot of people don't seem to realize how much of an investment it is to send a player abroad.


You would only need to send him abroad for the playoffs, and I doubt those last very long. It's not ideal, but playing on the NA server from Korea and attending the WCS-NA is still an option.
Terran & Potato Salad.
Shawngood
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany473 Posts
April 06 2013 17:55 GMT
#12
On April 07 2013 02:50 Waxangel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2013 02:49 Shawngood wrote:
On April 07 2013 02:44 lord_nibbler wrote:
Necessary growing pains IMHO.

Also, I do not 'fear a Code B migration' at all, because it does not make sense given the economic background of most Korean teams. A fact that is sadly overlooked by the majority of doomsayers here on TL.
Why would Korean-only sponsors like KT, SK or Woongjin have any interests in sending players abroad? They do not sell their products there.

I can see MC and MMA transfer to Europe because that is where their sponsors are focused and maybe Red Bull might wish for Bomber and some other IM players to come to NA. But for most Korean players unaffiliated with foreign sponsorship playing outside of Korea is not an option financially.

This posting is right on the money. A lot of people don't seem to realize how much of an investment it is to send a player abroad.


it's also largely unrelated to the OP? I don't know if either of you read it

Sorry for that.

I think my first posting in this thread was more on target though, right?

For Scarlett there might be a different case as there is probably a Code S (Premier Division) slot waiting in NA WCS while she has only a small chance of making Code A (Challenger Division) in Korea. From a financial standpoint, that's an easy call to make.
@ESL_Shawn
onedayclose
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1145 Posts
April 06 2013 17:57 GMT
#13
You would think the PLAYERS would be contacted FIRST about the new WCS before the public at large. It appears the koreans were in the know while some teams in the the west were left in the dark. How sad! T_T I hope that by season 2 all western teams will have a plan for each region going forward.
pmp10
Profile Joined April 2012
3315 Posts
April 06 2013 18:01 GMT
#14
I was kinda confused why MC would consider switching when he already plays in GSL.
If there is so much confusion among teams and pro-gamers how can Blizzard expect people to lock themselves down to a region for a considerable amount of time?
m0ck
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
4194 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-06 18:05:02
April 06 2013 18:04 GMT
#15
The reason for not releasing the full details on the first day of the reveal unfortunately seems to be that the rules are not set in stone yet, or at least that the rules have not been communicated effectively to participants. Who sets the rules? Where can I find clarification? Blizzard, you need to step up and be the authority that you're making yourself into. That includes transparency.

Too much too soon?
AgentW
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States7725 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-06 18:09:18
April 06 2013 18:08 GMT
#16
On April 07 2013 03:04 m0ck wrote:
The reason for not releasing the full details on the first day of the reveal unfortunately seems to be that the rules are not set in stone yet, or at least that the rules have not been communicated effectively to participants. Who sets the rules? Where can I find clarification? Blizzard, you need to step up and be the authority that you're making yourself into. That includes transparency.

Too much too soon?

I think this post is very much spot on. Blizzard needs to step up and hash out their rules completely before forcing anyone to lock in without total clarity with respect to what kind of implications their actions will have for the rest of the year. At this point, with the hard deadline April 11th (that's when Code A qualifiers start, right?), Blizzard has to get the phones working the MLG, ESL etc. so they can figure out dates to get everything in order so everyone involved can make an informed decision. If they don't have everything ready by then, a one time switch after Season 1 would likely be the most fair solution.
Who's the bigger scrub, the scrub, or the scrub who loses to him?
Lukeeze[zR]
Profile Joined February 2006
Switzerland6838 Posts
April 06 2013 18:11 GMT
#17
On April 07 2013 03:08 AgentW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2013 03:04 m0ck wrote:
The reason for not releasing the full details on the first day of the reveal unfortunately seems to be that the rules are not set in stone yet, or at least that the rules have not been communicated effectively to participants. Who sets the rules? Where can I find clarification? Blizzard, you need to step up and be the authority that you're making yourself into. That includes transparency.

Too much too soon?

I think this post is very much spot on. Blizzard needs to step up and hash out their rules completely before forcing anyone to lock in without total clarity with respect to what kind of implications their actions will have for the rest of the year. At this point, with the hard deadline April 11th (that's when Code A qualifiers start, right?), Blizzard has to get the phones working the MLG, ESL etc. so they can figure out dates to get everything in order so everyone involved can make an informed decision. If they don't have everything ready by then, a one time switch after Season 1 would likely be the most fair solution.


That is maybe Blizzard's way to prevent a massive korean immigration in WCS-NA/EU. I'm only half-joking :[
Terran & Potato Salad.
HeeroFX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2704 Posts
April 06 2013 18:12 GMT
#18
I don't blame them The whole thing was pretty confusing I had to read through the post a few times to fully understand.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18825 Posts
April 06 2013 18:15 GMT
#19
As long as enough people are outspoken in regards to Blizzard already having made it public that a one-time switch is to be allowed, I don't see how they can change their mind in any reasonable fashion. If they do screw these players over, we must make our displeasure known.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
AgentW
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States7725 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-06 18:16:17
April 06 2013 18:15 GMT
#20
On April 07 2013 03:11 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2013 03:08 AgentW wrote:
On April 07 2013 03:04 m0ck wrote:
The reason for not releasing the full details on the first day of the reveal unfortunately seems to be that the rules are not set in stone yet, or at least that the rules have not been communicated effectively to participants. Who sets the rules? Where can I find clarification? Blizzard, you need to step up and be the authority that you're making yourself into. That includes transparency.

Too much too soon?

I think this post is very much spot on. Blizzard needs to step up and hash out their rules completely before forcing anyone to lock in without total clarity with respect to what kind of implications their actions will have for the rest of the year. At this point, with the hard deadline April 11th (that's when Code A qualifiers start, right?), Blizzard has to get the phones working the MLG, ESL etc. so they can figure out dates to get everything in order so everyone involved can make an informed decision. If they don't have everything ready by then, a one time switch after Season 1 would likely be the most fair solution.


That is maybe Blizzard's way to prevent a massive korean immigration in WCS-NA/EU. I'm only half-joking :[

Well, I think the region migration thing is a very serious question and somewhat applies to Waxangel's initial post: Koreans have to make the decision to play in Code A qualifiers just as foreigners do, except for the fact that they don't have to worry about moving out of Korea like Scarlett and SortOf. The Koreans can only benefit from playing in NA and EU via easier competition, lagless Korean ladder, and Korean team houses, but if they have to make the choice to not go for Code A to do it, I think it will likely deter some.
Who's the bigger scrub, the scrub, or the scrub who loses to him?
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