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On April 07 2013 02:52 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 02:49 Shawngood wrote:On April 07 2013 02:44 lord_nibbler wrote:
Necessary growing pains IMHO.
Also, I do not 'fear a Code B migration' at all, because it does not make sense given the economic background of most Korean teams. A fact that is sadly overlooked by the majority of doomsayers here on TL.
Why would Korean-only sponsors like KT, SK or Woongjin have any interests in sending players abroad? They do not sell their products there.
I can see MC and MMA transfer to Europe because that is where their sponsors are focused and maybe Red Bull might wish for Bomber and some other IM players to come to NA. But for most Korean players unaffiliated with foreign sponsorship playing outside of Korea is not an option financially. This posting is right on the money. A lot of people don't seem to realize how much of an investment it is to send a player abroad. You would only need to send him abroad for the playoffs, and I doubt those last very long. It's not ideal, but playing on the NA server from Korea and attending the WCS-NA is still an option.
Why do you assume that players are allowed to play from Korea in general? I am not saying I heard otherwise, but this is not a matter of fact. There are examples of other regulations like the EPS for instance (the German ESL League), where you can be of any citizenship (even play online from other regions occasionally) as long as your regular residence is in Germany.
I am not sure why Blizzard would let Koreans play qualifications from Korea if they are not willing to actually transfer to other regions. They could easily rule that out.
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On April 07 2013 02:24 Torte de Lini wrote:
New system with comes a lot of shoving to make it fit in everyone's schedule (MLG, EU and Korean tournament organizers + teams participating in foreign leagues [EGTL, WW, etc.) as well as players traveling (America, Korea, EU).
This is pretty much expected that a lot lose out to lay way for the new road of consistent scheduling and timeline.
It's sad to see and read this, but it was expected as well.
I can understand how the point and prize structures are still being defined while things are set in motion to fit in a schedule, but the region lock rules really shouldn't have to be that complex.
Just make a decision regarding exceptions and what-not, and announce it as soon as possible.
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On April 07 2013 03:17 lord_nibbler wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 02:52 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On April 07 2013 02:49 Shawngood wrote:On April 07 2013 02:44 lord_nibbler wrote:
Necessary growing pains IMHO.
Also, I do not 'fear a Code B migration' at all, because it does not make sense given the economic background of most Korean teams. A fact that is sadly overlooked by the majority of doomsayers here on TL.
Why would Korean-only sponsors like KT, SK or Woongjin have any interests in sending players abroad? They do not sell their products there.
I can see MC and MMA transfer to Europe because that is where their sponsors are focused and maybe Red Bull might wish for Bomber and some other IM players to come to NA. But for most Korean players unaffiliated with foreign sponsorship playing outside of Korea is not an option financially. This posting is right on the money. A lot of people don't seem to realize how much of an investment it is to send a player abroad. You would only need to send him abroad for the playoffs, and I doubt those last very long. It's not ideal, but playing on the NA server from Korea and attending the WCS-NA is still an option. Why do you assume that players are allowed to play from Korea in general? I am not saying I heard otherwise, but this is not a matter of fact. There are examples of other regulations like the EPS for instance (the German ESL League), where you can be of any citizenship (even play online from other regions occasionally) as long as your regular residence is in Germany. I am not sure why Blizzard would let Koreans play qualifications from Korea if they are not willing to actually transfer to other regions. They could easily rule that out.
I was thinking about this last night and came up with the idea that you have to be in the region you want to play in. It makes sense for GSL because you have to be there anyway and disallows Koreans in Korea to play in NA and EU. It's not discriminatory in any way (although it has a clear purpose) and would solve the potential problem.
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Im 90% sure the rule is something like:
"If you participate in CodeA qualifiers - you wont be able to participate in WCS NA/EU Season 1, but can qualify for the next season".
This rule should actually be this way in general - locking for a year is kind of moronic.
What if you have to move mid-year ( due to school, or various other reasons ), you just are screwed for 2 seasons - losing CodeA/CodeS placement and all your WCS points should be enough.
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On April 07 2013 03:17 lord_nibbler wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 02:52 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On April 07 2013 02:49 Shawngood wrote:On April 07 2013 02:44 lord_nibbler wrote:
Necessary growing pains IMHO.
Also, I do not 'fear a Code B migration' at all, because it does not make sense given the economic background of most Korean teams. A fact that is sadly overlooked by the majority of doomsayers here on TL.
Why would Korean-only sponsors like KT, SK or Woongjin have any interests in sending players abroad? They do not sell their products there.
I can see MC and MMA transfer to Europe because that is where their sponsors are focused and maybe Red Bull might wish for Bomber and some other IM players to come to NA. But for most Korean players unaffiliated with foreign sponsorship playing outside of Korea is not an option financially. This posting is right on the money. A lot of people don't seem to realize how much of an investment it is to send a player abroad. You would only need to send him abroad for the playoffs, and I doubt those last very long. It's not ideal, but playing on the NA server from Korea and attending the WCS-NA is still an option. Why do you assume that players are allowed to play from Korea in general? I am not saying I heard otherwise, but this is not a matter of fact. There are examples of other regulations like the EPS for instance (the German ESL League), where you can be of any citizenship (even play online from other regions occasionally) as long as your regular residence is in Germany. I am not sure why Blizzard would let Koreans play qualifications from Korea if they are not willing to actually transfer to other regions. They could easily rule that out.
Yeah you're right, so far I'm just assuming because this WCS is a big mystery. All we know is that mike morhaime expects (does he really ?) some koreans to play in wcs-na or wcs-eu, and those two tournaments will have a strong online qualification processus at first. Of course the rule you mention could be applied and, in fact, make a lot of sense.
But if you have to leave korea and move to the US or Europe in order to compete, you would expect blizzard to warn teams and players weeks and months prior the wcs starts. I don't know if those were told, but players look kind of lost.
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horrible system. we will never see foreigners in GSL ever again and european/ NA WCS will be joke tournaments without the big korean names. I can only hope that MLG and ESL will still have their regular tournaments alongside of WCS.
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Koreans will still go to MLG and IEM whenever GSL is not on, they just won't get WCS points for korea otherwise everything will be the same as always.
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On April 07 2013 03:57 CupOfJoe wrote:
Koreans will still go to MLG and IEM whenever GSL is not on, they just won't get WCS points for korea otherwise everything will be the same as always.
I mean how is that even possible? If it was the case that you could play all the tourneys anyway, why not lock on NA and play the gsl nonetheless. I am pretty sure they can't just play MLG and IEM whenever GSL is not on. That would not make sense.
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On April 07 2013 04:08 JazVM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 03:57 CupOfJoe wrote:
Koreans will still go to MLG and IEM whenever GSL is not on, they just won't get WCS points for korea otherwise everything will be the same as always. I mean how is that even possible? If it was the case that you could play all the tourneys anyway, why not lock on NA and play the gsl nonetheless. I am pretty sure they can't just play MLG and IEM whenever GSL is not on. That would not make sense.
MLG and IEM events aren't WCS events, the WCS season is separate from the regular MLG/IEM seasons.
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Here are questions I'd like to have answered yet regarding the WCS:
- Does giving a qualifier a try lock you into that respective region already or will only a successful qualification for the challenger tier do that?
- Why is the name "Code S" kept but not "Code A"? What about "Up and Downs"? What is the official terminology for all regions in the end?
- Why does OSL get a format exception with the Ro32 Bo1 tournament added on?
- Are GSL and OSL interconnected (i.e. top 8 + qualified from Code A and Up and Downs of a current GSL will be in the subsequent OSL and vice versa)? What about the seasons in other regions?
- What is the ruling on the mentioned exception for players in the WCS Korea region to be able to choose a new region after the first season and how does that pertain to foreign players currently in South Korea?
- Will the offline Ro16 playoffs for WCS Europe and WCS America be played on a single weekend or spread out over several days like in GSL Code S?
- Where will the respective studios be in in the EU and NA regions for the offline events? Will it be New York and Cologne?
- In what ways will WCS cooperate with DreamHack and NASL?
- Will only the Code S tier award points toward WCS finals qualification?
- What is the point reward structure in general, also in terms of non-WCS tournaments awarding points?
- Which region will host which season finals? How is the order decided?
- How is the sixteenth player of a host region for a season finals decided? Is it points as well?
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I'd prefer if they did it in a country like France for EU, not a huge fan of German crowds.
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What i have been confused about is the MLGs. Does this new system mean they will all be NA only or will there still be people from all over the world coming to play at an MLG?
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On April 07 2013 04:20 BigNesticle wrote:
What i have been confused about is the MLGs. Does this new system mean they will all be NA only or will there still be people from all over the world coming to play at an MLG?
On April 07 2013 04:09 StarVe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 04:08 JazVM wrote:On April 07 2013 03:57 CupOfJoe wrote:
Koreans will still go to MLG and IEM whenever GSL is not on, they just won't get WCS points for korea otherwise everything will be the same as always. I mean how is that even possible? If it was the case that you could play all the tourneys anyway, why not lock on NA and play the gsl nonetheless. I am pretty sure they can't just play MLG and IEM whenever GSL is not on. That would not make sense. MLG and IEM events aren't WCS events, the WCS season is separate from the regular MLG/IEM seasons.
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Another great question for EU and NA is why have these not already started?
If we are doing the same format all around, and GSL has already started with all players in each division, then how is NA/EU supposed to keep the same schedule when we don't even know who is in Challenger or Premier divisions yet???
I guess it is safe to assume that these tournaments (qualifiers into divisions) will be crammed into a very short period and likely not streamed or have much of any storyline until the very end....very disappointing if that is the case.
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Why don't you just earn a certain amount of points within a given tournament, then pick a region you want to compete in. In fact, they should change the region names to something Starcrafty, and say "These are the leagues. Pick your tournaments that give WCS points and play in them."
The first season all tournaments earn the same amount of points, then start changing them between seasons to allow for people who invest more time and effort into a tourney due to the amount of skilled players. The first season will give us points to justify which tournaments give out which points based on where the champions of those tournaments are headed.
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On April 07 2013 04:20 AgentW wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 04:20 BigNesticle wrote:
What i have been confused about is the MLGs. Does this new system mean they will all be NA only or will there still be people from all over the world coming to play at an MLG? Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 04:09 StarVe wrote:On April 07 2013 04:08 JazVM wrote:On April 07 2013 03:57 CupOfJoe wrote:
Koreans will still go to MLG and IEM whenever GSL is not on, they just won't get WCS points for korea otherwise everything will be the same as always. I mean how is that even possible? If it was the case that you could play all the tourneys anyway, why not lock on NA and play the gsl nonetheless. I am pretty sure they can't just play MLG and IEM whenever GSL is not on. That would not make sense. MLG and IEM events aren't WCS events, the WCS season is separate from the regular MLG/IEM seasons.
Okay I get it now. Thank you.
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Kinda scary that the folks in charge of all this either haven't figured out all the details or are incapable of communicating them. Maybe a little bit of the effort put into getting so many VIP's to a fluffy announcement ceremony in Korea could have instead been used for thinking about everyone's situation and writing a document that addresses all of their concerns.
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You know, if you are trying to organize the regions and various tournaments around a central theme (WCS), pretty much the first thing you need to do is hire a WCS director and a dedicated PR person (probably plus some additional support staff) to do nothing but sit around answering these kinds of questions from teams, players and fans.
It's unclear to me why there isn't such a person and if not, why not. Seems like a pretty poorly planned roll-out of this idea, sadly. Hopefully, Blizz (or whoever) will get their stuff together, put some people in charge of decision making and sort this out in a reasonable way.
This seems to be a recurring issue in esports -- a lot of careful thought goes into tournament, league, etc., design and way, way too little goes into actually keeping the players and fanbased informed. Esports is entertainment. Isn't it obvious that marketing needs to be a giant part of that if you really want to see growth?
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On April 07 2013 02:34 Shawngood wrote:
Blizzard will make an exception to allow all GSL Season 1 players to make a one-time switch if they want to after Season 1 in Korea.
Whatever misunderstanding or misinformation was done here - if Blizzard announces something the way they did with this, then it holds true.
European teams with players currently residing in Korea should be aware that EU WCS and NA WCS will be starting in only a couple of weeks though. Their players would have to play with bad ping from Korea if they decide to stay there and wish to qualify for WCS EU or NA.
This should help a lot of people, thanks a lot Shawn. I think this post should be added to the OP!
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Reading the WW's guy message makes me really sad. This is so nasty, to have a bunch of arrangements and prepaid plans and have to throw them away and rearrange your team in like 10 days. That shit costs money.
Also, someone from WCS needs to come out and clarify the switch option asap. Even without confusion there's very little time to act, and now it's not even clear what's true.
Overall, I think such important announcements should not be made for "in 10 days" events. There should have been a 2-3 month buffer for everyone to relocate and prepare properly.
P.S. They should have also announced the points of all tournaments immediately, including such as Dreamhack and NASL. Because that's relevant to what region you'd prefer to be in and how much it costs to travel to those events from there.
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EPT
