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Russian Federation210 Posts
Hi all!
For some days I test various terran's units ingame for their DPS and... I found that the attack rate of Battlecruiser and Reaper are lower than that in their tooltips.
Tests were done in "Unit test map" at "Faster" game speed.
At first, I will explain the method of calculation (sample test):
target - full HP and shields Nexus without any upgrades for armor or shields.
attacker - Marauder without any upgrades for attack or stimpack. Base damage = 20, attack cooldown = 1.5 seconds.
Nexus doesn't have any shield armor, so Marauder will hit for full 20 damage every 1.5 seconds until shields ends (from 1000 to 0). The calculations are 1000/20*1,5=50*1,5=75 seconds.
And then I test it ingame:
Start (8:00) - http://s019.radikal.ru/i600/1207/4a/2d945839128f.jpg
End (9:15) - http://s59.radikal.ru/i163/1207/60/9d9b6a45ae42.jpg
As you can see from screenshot 2 it takes exactly 75 seconds (as calculated before). So, go next!
Battlecruiser test:
#1 - Air-to-ground attack:
Base damage is 8 to ground, and tooltip says attack rate is 0.23 sec. But on teamliquid wiki there is more detailed information (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Battlecruiser). It says 0.225 sec (I check it with SC2Editor - 0.225).
target - Nexus with +3 graded shields.
attacker - Battlecruiser w/o grades for attack.
The point of calculation - the time needed to destroy 1000 shields.
Ingame test:
Start (34:20) - http://s015.radikal.ru/i333/1207/63/3d0ad5dc665c.jpg
End (35:18) - http://s017.radikal.ru/i428/1207/9b/7f077a53dbca.jpg
The test was done in 58 seconds, but BK hit one extra time. There are 1000/(8-3)=200 hits needed to remove shields, and 1 extra attack was done, so 201 attack in 58 seconds.
Time between attacks - 58/201=0,288557 seconds. That's far from stated 0.225 seconds. The difference is felt.
DPS of Battlecruiser is 8/0.225=35.55 (rounded up to 35.6 on teamliquid wiki).
Real DPS of Battlecruiser is 8/0,288557=27.72. That's 22% lower.
DPS per limit is 27.72/6=4,62... so low. Stimpacked marine deals 6*1,5/0,86=10,46 dps!
#2 - Air-to-air attack:
target - Battlecruiser with +2 armor grades, it totaly has 2+3=5 armor.
attacker - Battlecruiser without attack grades, damage =6 and the attack rate is the same = 0.225.
The purpose of the test - damage BCruiser up to 50 HP.
Start (34:10) - http://s61.radikal.ru/i174/1207/38/cf44b28912c8.jpg
End (36:34) - http://s015.radikal.ru/i333/1207/0f/b404adf9e07c.jpg
The time needed - 144 seconds.
Number of attacks done = (550-51)/(6-5)=499/1=499.
Time between attacks = 144/499=0,288557! It's equal to previous test's result!
DPS (for 0.225 attack rate) - 6/0,225=26,66
Real DPS - 6 /0,288557 =20,7931
20,7931/26,66=0,7799 - 22% lower dps, again.
Reaper test:
Attack to structures (with bombs):
target - Nexus w/o any grades.
attacker - Reaper, 30 damage to structures, 1.8 seconds attack cooldown from game tooltip.
The purpose of the test - damage shields for 990 points. 990/30=33 attacks done.
Start (2:00) - http://s48.radikal.ru/i120/1207/60/cd88dce53c1c.jpg
End (3:09) - http://s019.radikal.ru/i604/1207/b3/a8a6f6a34c60.jpg
It takes 69 seconds. Time between attacks - 69/33=2,09. One more time it's not as in tooltips!
DPS (for 1.8 attack rate) - 30/1,8=16,66
Real DPS - 30/2,09=14,35.
14,35/16,66=0,8613. ~14% lower from stated amount.
Some words after
The difference between reference and test data can not be explained by random +/-1 second or +/-1 attack. This affect results a little! Tests of other terran units grants perfectly matching values or very close ones to the stated data.
So, the main question - are there bugs or wrong tooltips?
© Glucodav (http://eu.battle.net/sc2/ru/forum/topic/4941225803)
PS Sorry for any mistakes in English
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Did you test every unit or just those?
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You should draw up a conclusion, and maybe format it better.
Otherwise, this is interesting results >.>
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Well, the bomb is a special attack, so it does not fall under the rule of the regular attack speed. no clue with the bc.
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On July 17 2012 15:13 JustPassingBy wrote:
Well, the bomb is a special attack, so it does not fall under the rule of the regular attack speed. no clue with the bc.
Reg attack for reaper is 1.1
Nade is 1.8
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I'm surprised this was only discovered 2 years after the release of sc2. Thanks.
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Wow, if these numbers are accurate that's insane. 22% less DPS than stated? That's a huge disparity. Hopefully we can have some other people check on the numbers/method and see if this is valid.
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So you discovered BC is even more shit than it's supposed to be? 
But joking aside, is bc "balanced" around the stats, or actual game play dps? Because if those calculations are correct, -22% is a huge difference.
edit: i mean lets say those calculations are correct. How would Blizzard correct the problem. Increase the real attack speed to match the stats, or change the stated attack speed of the unit.
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Interestingly, the random attack delay maximum amount is higher for these weapons than most weapons. Not sure if this is to blame, but it certainly could be. Most weapons have a random delay maximum of 0.125, while BCs have 0.1875.
Reaper's anti-structure, however, is more interesting. It has a random delay maximum of 0.5 (very big) but also a random delay minumum of 0.1, a positive number. Most weapons, including that of BCs, has a minimum delay of -0.0625.
You could add anywhere from -0.0625 to 0.125 to the time between attacks for a regular weapon. A BC should average to be a higher because it's between -0.0625 and 0.1875. The reapers, though, don't even have a chance to fire as fast as they should because you will always add at least 0.1, with as much as 0.5.
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Russian Federation210 Posts
On July 17 2012 15:09 mrtomjones wrote:
Did you test every unit or just those?
Yes, all terran units(without sidge tank) have been tested, incorrect results are only bс and reaper
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That is insteresting! Have you tried on other units than the Nexus for the reaper and the Ground to Ground attack for the battlecruiser? Maybe the Nexus has a hidden armor value, or the upgrades grants more than +3 in a hidden way, it would be very weird though  Or have maybe the Maurauder do a dps test against a +3 shield Nexus, because for the maurauder you did it without shield upgrades, but for the others, you did
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Here's what you can do. Get a unit, modify it's attack speed and damage identical to a reaper or a BC, run the tester, see the difference.
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Russian Federation210 Posts
Tests were also the СС, results are the same
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O_O
I have to assume Blizzard knew about this but failed to update the tooltips.... but that seems terrible... even worse if they had no idea though D:
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So basically BCs are even worse than we think! They need a buff, theyre useless!
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This is a very interesting find.. I hope someone can use the map editor to modify the BC to see what it should function as. To be honest, the unit needs a buff. This is even coming from a zerg. x.x
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you're completely disregarding the random attack delay. BC and reaper D8 are the only 2 attacks that have a different random attack delay from the default. real attack speed of a BC is 0.1625 to 0.4125 which is 0.2875 average
probably same with d8.
oh nvm i see you mentioned random delay at the end. the problem here is that the random delay doesnt average 0. also it is pretty small compared to majority of the units' attack speeds. BC is an extreme case because of its small attack speed value and bigger random delay resulting in a big disparity between the base value and the real value. same with D8 because of its special huge random delays
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On July 17 2012 15:40 kazie wrote:
you're completely disregarding the random attack delay. BC and reaper D8 are the only 2 attacks that have a different random attack delay from the default. real attack speed of a BC is 0.1625 to 0.4125 which is 0.2875 average
probably same with d8.
That doesn't change the problem that tooltip states incorrect values.
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I hope the unit test map has nexus shield in fight regen disabled
then this would be an awesome thread for the bnet forum to get answeres from the staffs
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On July 17 2012 15:49 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 15:40 kazie wrote:
you're completely disregarding the random attack delay. BC and reaper D8 are the only 2 attacks that have a different random attack delay from the default. real attack speed of a BC is 0.1625 to 0.4125 which is 0.2875 average
probably same with d8. That doesn't change the problem that tooltip states incorrect values.
tooltips are correct in that blizzard chose to state base values, and that random delays are public knowledge. you can disagree with their decision i guess.
only thing i would say needs to be changed is liquipedia. it should at least have an attack speed page explaining the matter. if op went to another wiki like sc2pod, he would have known the cause of this.
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EPT
