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I'm just sick to death of the trolling, ad-hominems, flaming, boasting, etc, etc, etc about leagues. Every region has different skill levels for the leagues (KR > EU > AM overall), every player is different and needs to improve on different things to get better, every league has players with all sorts of different game understanding and mechanics. Some players play a lot of their melees in customs and use ladder to offrace and test cheesy new builds. You can be "Diamond Skill" in gold league easily. There's plenty of High Diamonds who are better than a lot of masters, one base superheroes or lucky promotions and plenty of gold players of all ranges who would get owned by a high bronze player with a good sense of scouting.
Stop making generalized comments about players based on their current league placing and stop making such a big deal out of ladder ranks. I'm currently in European silver, who could easily compete on European platinum ladder and I am let down mostly by my mechanics and being distracted in games from split second decision making, I theorycraft at a very high level, as I spend at least 20x the time I do laddering watching streams, pro games, discussing starcraft 2, etc. When I do ladder, I see a lot of protoss's who cannon turtle on one base and try to mass void ray. I'm not trying to bash on less experienced users, but we are not the same. And guess what, my ladder rank doesn't affect my ability to talk about this on a fucking thread. That's the entire point I'm trying to make. I'm not "A Silver Player", I'm ME. I'm talking as an individual person.
This thread isn't about me though, it's about using the ladder as just a way to label players and act like everyone is the same. Please judge players on what they say and do, if anything, and not some arbitrary icon on their profile.
You can't say "oh, it says on sc2 ranks than your in <insert league> so you suck at <insert thing> and need to practice <instert thing 2>. I'm in <insert slightly higher league, possibly even on a different server> so I am better than you lolol nub." That's not how life, or the sc2 community works.
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On August 25 2011 08:21 EneMal wrote:
I'm just sick to death of the trolling, ad-hominems, flaming, boasting, etc, etc, etc about leagues. Every region has different skill levels for the leagues (KR > EU > AM overall), every player is different and needs to improve on different things to get better, every league has players with all sorts of different game understanding and mechanics. Some players play a lot of their melees in customs and use ladder to offrace and test cheesy new builds. You can be "Diamond Skill" in gold league easily. There's plenty of High Diamonds who are better than a lot of masters, one base superheroes or lucky promotions and plenty of gold players of all ranges who would get owned by a high bronze player with a good sense of scouting.
Stop making generalized comments about players based on their current league placing and stop making such a big deal out of ladder ranks. I'm currently in European silver, who could easily compete on European platinum ladder and I am let down mostly by my mechanics and being distracted in games from split second decision making, I theorycraft at a very high level, as I spend at least 20x the time I do laddering watching streams, pro games, discussing starcraft 2, etc.
This thread isn't about me though, it's about using the ladder as just a way to label players and act like everyone is the same. Please judge players on what they say and do, if anything, and not some arbitrary icon on their profile.
Bolded undermines the rest of your post.
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Your preaching to the choir bud.
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Come back once you actually league up and see if you have the same opinion.
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Well, if someone is in silver and just does not get promoted, then his skill level is silver. If you're as good as diamond players, then you will end up in diamond league ... if you do not end up there, then you're just not as good, as simple as that. Winning against one diamond player doesn't make you as good tho, that's what you should keep in mind.
You will get promoted, if you manage to constantly win vs. x-league players.
This thread seems more like a rant than anything else I guess :-(
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@One Above The One Above: This is exactly what I'm talking about.
@Above: If I laddered more competitvely, I could go up leagues extremely fast. Especially if I veto'd 3 of the awful maps. But I don't want to do that. This is what I mean. Imagine how many players wouldn't have been promoted if they didn't have a particular map veto'd. What if they got that map on the game that would have caused them to be promoted? 2 players have equal skill, one of them vetos maps bad for his race and the other doesn't. One of them might be a higher league but they WOULDN'T be better. This is what I fucking mean.
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Its just a game bro, and btw making petty excuses about your play doesnt help your whole plea.
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On August 25 2011 08:27 EneMal wrote:
^ This is exactly what I'm talking about.
Word up bro. Commentors like that put me off the most.
I've abandoned participating in online forums for these reasons. Haters, trolls, melvins & back seat mods don't make it a pleasant place. The internet just isn't meant to be a means of creating a deep community.
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1. Of course ladder rank isn't a perfect indicator of skill but more often than not it will give you a good ballpark indication.
2. Sc2 can be deceptively simple, so you may think you know a lot more than you actually do if you don't play games and constantly put your theory into practical use. For ever 50 players that say they know a lot but are held back by their mechanics / lack of play time etc, maybe 3-4 might actually be correct in their assertion.
If someone isn't good at the game (and no, Silver isn't good, neither is platinum), then they should try to refrain from taking serious part in strategy discussions and accept that their views have much less validity than those of a grandmaster player would, for example. I don't know why this is so hard to understand =/. Hell, I'm in low master league and I don't think I've ever contributed to the strat forum cause I know I suck relatively speaking.
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Your ladder rank doesn't determine how qualified you are to talk about something. Your skill does.
But here's a hint: if you have played more than 30 games since your last major jump in skill, and you aren't getting matched up against masters level opponents or higher, you aren't going to have as valid points simply because something that you think is unstoppable is only hard for you to fend off because you don't have as good macro or really basic unit control as you should.
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On August 25 2011 08:21 EneMal wrote:
I am let down mostly by my mechanics and being distracted in games from split second decision making
Welcome to starcraft. If you can't do these things, you belong where you are.
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If it irritates you so much, don't make a thread to vent your frustrations but actually spend more than 1/20 of the time you watch streams playing. Pretty simple solution. Diamond is easy to get into for anyone that supposedly can theorycraft at such a high level, and mechanics are not really that hard at anything below masters.
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if you're silver then you're silver, stop making excuses
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United States12240 Posts
Not everyone plays at the same skill level every game, and sometimes people use strategies they're not used to or that are very risky and end up getting punished for it. Over time though, those things become statistical noise. League icons are generally solid indicators of a player's skill as long as they are actively playing and as long as they've held that icon for a while.
This is really blog material though.
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On August 25 2011 08:23 pwncakery wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 08:21 EneMal wrote:
I'm just sick to death of the trolling, ad-hominems, flaming, boasting, etc, etc, etc about leagues. Every region has different skill levels for the leagues (KR > EU > AM overall), every player is different and needs to improve on different things to get better, every league has players with all sorts of different game understanding and mechanics. Some players play a lot of their melees in customs and use ladder to offrace and test cheesy new builds. You can be "Diamond Skill" in gold league easily. There's plenty of High Diamonds who are better than a lot of masters, one base superheroes or lucky promotions and plenty of gold players of all ranges who would get owned by a high bronze player with a good sense of scouting.
Stop making generalized comments about players based on their current league placing and stop making such a big deal out of ladder ranks. I'm currently in European silver, who could easily compete on European platinum ladder and I am let down mostly by my mechanics and being distracted in games from split second decision making, I theorycraft at a very high level, as I spend at least 20x the time I do laddering watching streams, pro games, discussing starcraft 2, etc.
This thread isn't about me though, it's about using the ladder as just a way to label players and act like everyone is the same. Please judge players on what they say and do, if anything, and not some arbitrary icon on their profile. Bolded undermines the rest of your post.
QFT this is just another low-leaguer yelling about how he can think about the game right up there with nestea, mvp and bomber, it's just that his hands are too darn slow. I'm sorry but that's not how it works, nebulous theorycraft based on no high level experience will never ever match up to strategic thinking based on actually playing high level games, you may be you but you are also in silver and as such have almost certainly never had to micro macro or strategize at a high enough level to truly understand what it takes, what it's like, and what the strengths and flaws of different things are, hearing artosis talk about it only gets you so far.
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Sure the system has faults , but it's still a good way to estimate how good a player is. Tbh you're just coming off as a troll/flamer yourself with that post.
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Yeah man.. I've been playing for a year.. I'm high bronze and I, too, am sick of people telling me I can't have an opinion on balance. I have just enough of a right to determine that marauders and infestors need major nerfs and zerg needs a new unit. I watch 4 hours of Destiny a day and I consider myself a pro; I just need a new mouse and keyboard to make grand masters.
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I assure you that if you're really good, you'll win every game on searing crater as Zerg if you're in silver league. So I cannot see the map choices to make a difference in that kind of leagues. It's not like you can veto EVERY map you don't like. It's only 3 vetos and 10? maps.
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I agree with pwncakery. don't include your mechanics and decision making as an excuse why you're not in plat league. those are skill required to become a better player and to rank up. However, I agree that leagues do not reflect the skill of 100% of the population as you have said people may just want to random or don't take it seriously.
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I am let down from being higher than platinum by them, not from being higher than silver, where I currently am. If you actually bet money on it, I'd have a reason to go to gold by the end of tonight. But I have no motivation to ladder at the moment, I'm not doing it just to get aproval by idiots with no understanding of the game.
@TheSubtle: Post ignored because you live in canada and play on the AM server and made comments about the EU server and acted like it was the same as the AM one, which proves you didn't read my OP.
@Mage: I'M NOT SAYING MY MECHANICS ARE STOPPING ME FROM BEING IN PLATINUM! OR MY DECISION MAKING! THEY ARE STOPPING ME FROM PLAYING AT HIGHER THAN PLATINUM! THE ONLY THING STOPPING ME FROM BEING IN PLATINUM LEAGUE AT THE FUCKING MOMENT IS THAT I CBA TO LADDER FOR IT
@Kuni: Close positions searing crater. 2gate into 4gate. Scouted them last. There isn't even time to make a quarter of a cycle of units or a fifth of a spine crawler in the rush distance and the natural/main is impossible to defend with spines on that map anyway.
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EPT
