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My setup works amazingly, i can run Ultra/Extreme on 1280x768 with roughly 60+ FPS. I know the resolution is pretty small, so if anyone is curious for me to try running higher resolutions or do more thorough testing, I'd be more than happy to.
For now, I'm just going to use this thread for all my concerns instead of making/bumping new ones (questions about overclocking, unlocking, optimal performance setup, etc).
The build I have is the same as here except a MSI GTX 460 768mb, Antec 430D, single 2GB HyperX Kingston RAM, and Athlon II X3 3.2ghz (unlocked to a Phenom X4 B50 with no L3 cache).
I need to build a budget computer, that, sadly, is only for playing SC2 (i have a notebook and an overclocked rooted android for everything else). My roommate decided to move the shared computer into his room.
Budget (basically, what I'd spend just to play SC2)= $399 or less. Id spend about $20 more for an upgrade on a piece of hardware if its noticeably improved, but pass if its $40+ generally. I would like a computer to play SC2 and the expansions on medium to low, and future games like maybe Diablo3 on low.
Resolution = I just want to play SC2. Finding out I can play on medium, maybe high graphics, for $300 was a huge joy to me. I currently/used to play on lowest and its whatever.
Upgrade Cycle = This computer is going to last my lifetime baby! I guess being able to swap a this or that would be nice to keep this up to date, if I care about that, in 2 years. This is a cheap computer, so if I upgrade in the future its possible I just buy a new computer for $300. Im pretty shortsighted though. You guys can discuss this with me if you like, and Ill listen. No one wants to get something they know will be outdated immediately, but I also have a tight budget.
Overclocking = No, not really interested in that. Dont want to shorten the life of my PC either. Id rather lower the settings on my computer. I leave overclocking to my Droid. I am all ears, and am familiar with doing it on my Droid, so I know its a way to get a 'better' processor than what I pay for, if anyone has anything particular to recommend about it.
OS = Plan to use Windows 2000/Millenium Edition. Seriously, there are ways around buying it, and I'm not particularly interested in taking this into account with my budget. Worst case scenario Ill run open source freeware.
SLI = Not really interested, unless 2 half decent GPUs are better than a decent gpu! I do plan to use nVidia on my AMD, as GeForce is to Radeon what AMD is to Intel for budget.
Using Tomshardware SC2 benchmarking, the Falcon Logical Increments PC Buying Guide, and general research, this is roughly what I'm looking at getting, and my reasoning behind the choice. I do not know much about computers or building one at all except 2 days of intense research and common sense. Parts from Newegg.com, as I hear they are the best/cheapest. Wouldnt mind ordering parts from differing places.
*Kingston 1GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) Desktop Memory Model KVR1066D3/1GR
its the cheapest, so x 2 because I understand you want RAM in pairs, or threes sometimes depending on cpu/motherboard. Ive heard kingston is good, from my 2 days of research. But there are so many cheap RAMS for the same price, and other good brands too.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134784
$12.99 x 2 = $24.98
*ASUS ENGT430/DI/1GD3(LP) GeForce GT 430 (Fermi) 1GB 128-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Low Profile Ready Video Card
11th Generation GeForce, 200 series is a bit low and 500 a bit expensive. The cheaper 400 series were like less than $10 cheaper and Sparkle, Galaxy, and Elitegroup, brands not in the Falcon Logical Increments PC Buying Guide or I have seen elsewhere.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121397
$69
*Western Digital Caviar Blue WD1600AAJS 160GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
Don't care about space, and I know I need 7200RPM. Again, everything is 7200RPM. The cheapest was a dollar less, and I hear WD is very good. Id run my computer from microSD cards if I could. SC2 is 12gbs, so anything over, say, 50gbs is unnecessary. Really.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136075
$36
*AMD Athlon II X2 255 Regor 3.1GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket AM3 65W Dual-Core
Its on the Falcon Guide for "minimum", 3ghz dualcore seems to be minimum for sc2 high settings, its only $3 more than the 2.9ghz. It just seems to be the best value. Its about $20 more for TriCore, so I passed on that. AMD also seems the way to go for budget.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103896
$62
Or I may do a combo deal of a 3.2GHZ X2 260 + BIOSTAR A770E3 AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard for $118.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138179
Choosing a motherboard is pretty past me. I assume I'll only use 1 graphics card, so I know I need one x16 port, I'll probably want a large, *safe* ATX. Need to make sure AM3 for processor. Dual or Triple channel, whatever. I just buy as much cheap RAM sticks as I need.
*NZXT GAMMA Classic Series GAMA-001BK Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
Cheap, recommended on guide. Im inclined to use a cardboard box as my case though.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146061
$39
*Antec EarthWatts Green EA-380D Green 380W Continuous power ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified
Recommended on Falcon Guide, cheap, on a sale. The newegg power calc said I need 280 so this should be way safe for peripherals. Really, 100W i think is way more than I need.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371033
$39
 iskDrive = go to dump and rip one from a computer. Although I have the CD for SC2 I can either copy the file from another computer and paste, or digital download.
*Windows = arent there 'free' versions available?
Yea so that's all. Really the only thing stopping me from ordering this right now is I would like to have feedback, as all I know about computers came from the last 2 days of intense research, and common sense. I know TL members have better things to do with their time, but if you dont, cheers.
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looks like a pretty good list to me, for 400 bucks that would be a pretty legit computer. The only thing that concerns me a little bit is the 380W power supply- make sure you check on the 430 graphics card for what its power requirement is and that it can provide enough amperage for ALL of your peripherals.
i guess i'm kind of biased towards putting together a "budget" machine, because even in the 600$ price range the boost in performance you'd get would be astronomical. Not to mention run pretty much any game for the next 5 years at least.
that machine will most definitely at least RUN every game on the market today, and likely many for the next couple of years at least. If that is your main concern, i say go for it- looks like youre all set!
EDIT: btw the athlon 555 can be unlocked to a quad-core after you buy it, giving you the performance of the 955 phenom for a lot less money. theres no guarantee it will unlock its other two cores (depends on the mobo compatibility) but if it does- hey, two more free proccessing cores!
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If you're adventurous, you can go caseless! Just lay out everything on a table. Earthwatts Green 380D is actually pretty decent and has the electrical capability (if not the connectors) to handle a much more powerful GPU up to something like a HD 6950, GTX 560 Ti, etc. given your low-end CPU and lack of other components.
I'm agreed on HD 5570/5670 over GT 430 though, but that's not a huge deal.
Low-end combo motherboard should be fine (usually), since you're not doing much on the system. Higher-end motherboards just have more features, more connectivity options, better voltage regulation modules, better heat dissipation from sensitive components, maybe better customer support, etc. It doesn't sound like you'll need any of those things.
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Lol Aduromors. That's really expensive. I mean Im better off taking the bus than getting a Mazda, so Id make it a Mazeratti.
SC2 doesnt really require a top-end graphics card, and the $70 card I got is ahead of what SC2 was designed about anyways (9/10 series). Having any dedicated graphics card, especially one bought today, is enough. Tomshardware does an analysis and only the lowest radeons had trouble keeping up, and that was only at the highest of settings and resolutions. The GeForce 240 barely stuttered, so my choice of 400 series is pretty much the bottom of what will not stutter at all.
Great input about the video card people, exactly what I was looking for. Ill see what I think about it in a bit (roommate isnt here, precious sc2 time!). My biggest concern is the motherboard, I really am not sure what to get.
And about the phenom unlocking, phenom is just too expensive. There was one phenom that was actually within budget, I think its $19 ahead of whta I was looking for.
Anyways this isnt a good reply, Ill post a better one in a couple hours. Thanks though!
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You are going to be disappointed if you think a gt430 or a 5570 or whatever can run SC2 decently, those cards aren't made for gaming whatsoever
Spend the extra $30 to get a real video card it's still well within your budget
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what do you plan on using for a monitor?
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On January 27 2011 15:07 SpooN) wrote:
EDIT: btw the athlon 555 can be unlocked to a quad-core after you buy it, giving you the performance of the 955 phenom for a lot less money. theres no guarantee it will unlock its other two cores (depends on the mobo compatibility) but if it does- hey, two more free proccessing cores!
There is no "athlon 555". The 555 is a phenom ii. Although there have allegedly been exceptions, the dual core athlon iis are dual core by design and have no disabled cores to unlock.
On January 27 2011 14:17 Belial88 wrote:
OS = Plan to use Windows 2000/Millenium Edition. Seriously, there are ways around buying it, and I'm not particularly interested in taking this into account with my budget. Worst case scenario Ill run open source freeware.
don't do that
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^ I plan on going to the dump and picking up one of those monitors that extends out a foot. That or hook it up to my droid.
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If you're going to optimize sc2 performance with your hardware choices, I suggest that you go for an Athlon II x4 quad-core or a tricore if there's no way you can fit the quad into your budget. While SC2 can only fully use two processor cores, it gets slightly suboptimal gains from up to 2 additional threads. This is important because SC2 is a very CPU limited game, and if you play on the low settings you will likely be bottlenecked by the cpu, not the gpu. If potentially playing diablo 3 is also a priority, the quad core will serve you better. The absolute minimum requirement for SC2 according to blizzard is a single core pentium 4 prescott architecture processor (it has hyper-threading and uses 2 threads, woooo!), but the CPU matters a lot regardless of what resolution and video settings you use.
As for the motherboard, get the cheapest AM3 motherboard you can find. It's as simple as that.
You shouldn't stress a lot about the GPU, seeing as you'll be playing with low settings. A Radeon 9800 pro (128Mb AGP card) can run SC2 @ 1280x1024, and a GTX 460 can easily handle ultra at full HD resolutions. SC2 is much more CPU limited than it is GPU limited. GPUs are also much easier to upgrade in the future, in case you decide to go along with upgrading in two years. duk3 had a great recommendation in the radeon 5570 1GB that was $45 after rebates.
Any PSU Myrmidon recommends is bound to be good. That man knows his PSUs better than I know the back of my hand. I've also heard lots of good things from Antec Earthwatts, so you can't go wrong with the PSU you selected.
Some advice on HDDs; look for one with a high platter count. This will reduce seeking times significantly, and get you better performance in games. If you can find a 5k RPM drive with a high platter count, it will generally perform better for you than a 7200RPM drive would and may be slightly cheaper. If you can find a WD caviar green going for cheaper than the caviar blue you have now, go for it. Platter counts really do matter a lot as a current gen WD caviar black can outperform a 10k RPM Raptor from two or three years ago with ease.
EDIT: I mean a lower platter count. The HDD is built so that the data is stored on multiple cd-like storage platters. Lower platter count means the drive doesn't have to search as many platters for the data it needs, and the drive doesn't need as beefy a motor to spin. Man, was that a brainfart.
Don't go for windows 2000/ME. Stalk around and try to find a license for XP that's no longer in use. Win2000 and ME were pretty horrible from what I remember.
If you're going to head to the dump, you may as well pick up a case while there to go along with the disk drive. You can also probably find a computer fan to help with any possible cooling issues.
You may also want to stalk craigslist or ebay for offers on older computers. You can actually find pretty sweet deals and you may get better value than if you had bought the computer new. Buying a used computer may also solve your OS problem.
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skyR, the reviews on the NXZT Gamma case I chose was better than the reviews on the coolermaster. If someone could comment about the Top mounted PSU vs Bottom or something like that, that may be interesting. Ill stick with Gamma for now, it is only $40 and it seems a good deal for what I pay for.
I assumed that the GT430, being 11th generation, would be better than the GT 200 series 10th generation. i was wrong, according to that article, as the GT430 is the bottom of the barrel of the 400 series.
So I'll shoot for a Radeon weaker than the 240, unless by now (the article came at SC2 release) one is better because cheaper/newer. Im still looking over the posts and comparing though...
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I was joking about windows millenium edition, it was to kind of show my mentality here. Ill probably get a 'free' version of windows 7. like i said, worst case scenario ill run open source free ware, i just helped my gf run ubuntu.
Some advice on HDDs; look for one with a high platter count. This will reduce seeking times significantly, and get you better performance in games. If you can find a 5k RPM drive with a high platter count, it will generally perform better for you than a 7200RPM drive would and may be slightly cheaper. If you can find a WD caviar green going for cheaper than the caviar blue you have now, go for it. Platter counts really do matter a lot as a current gen WD caviar black can outperform a 10k RPM Raptor from two or three years ago with ease.
Actually I found that there are some really cheap HDDs 'recertified' and much higher quality/storage. Heres the link to the page:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007603 4016&IsNodeId=1&name=Recertified
The Caviar Green is $29.
Platter count isn't listed on the website and I can't really understand it on others. Help needed please, definately want to go with 'recertified' here though.
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Yea I think Ill go for that one. The cheaper XFX is 512 mb instead of 1gb, which I imagine is the biggest deal in terms of quality in GPUs. Nice find, it really does compare nicely to the other 5670s. Radeon is a lot easier to figure out than the tricky GeForce cards! The 5600 series isnt benchmarked on Toms Hardware, but the 5500 was just slightly worse than the 240, albeit it couldnt play ultra at high resolution whereas the 240 just barely made it 'playable'. However, budget is the biggest concern, and ultra settings isnt really what Im aiming for. Im pretty much trying to play medium passably with my system here so it can handle the future expansions, and try to get good 'steals' in the process.
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So heres what I'm thinking now, and my questions now, with changes in bold:
XFX HD-567X-ZNF3 Radeon HD 5670 1GB 128-bit DDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150467
Combo
AMD Athlon II X2 260 Regor 3.2GHz Socket AM3 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor ADX260OCGMBOX
+
BIOSTAR A770E3 AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.581118
Motherboard:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138179
Kingston 1GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) Desktop Memory Model KVR1066D3/1GR x 2 for 2gbs on a dual channel motherboard.
Each for $12
Recertifed Hard Drive between (with shipping) $25-$40.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007603 4016&IsNodeId=1&name=Recertified
Antec Earthwatts 380D
NZXT Gamma Bottom Mount MidTower ATX
My questions are:
1. RAM: I simply chose the cheapest RAM possible. Should I go for 4GB RAM, or is 2GB enough (the recommended specs anyways)? I can always upgrade in 2 years if need be anyways. I know DDR3 is nice, but everything is DDR3 now. I also know theres no noticeable difference in 1033/1600 or whatever. So what else is there to determine RAM, why are some RAM 100s of dollars? Obviously, I dont want to buy this cheap RAM to find out itll ruin my computer and blow up. Here's the memory page:
http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=147&name=Desktop-Memory
2. Which HDD to get on that recertifed page? I dont really understand whats better (besides get 7200 RPM which they all have), i just want cheap and storage isnt an issue. I think WD is the brand I hear is best, and there are pretty cheapo WD's listed. Caviar Blue mostly, someone also recommended caviar green here.
3. Of my GPU or CPU, or maybe motherboard, or RAM, which is the bottleneck, if any? If so, which part should I up/downgrade? Or are all these parts 'compatible' perfectly?
4. On the newegg power calculator it said i need 326W (when I put high end mobo instead of medium, 26 W difference). With a few peripherals like mouse, keyboard, monitor, maybe charging a phone, is that cutting it too close with the 380 80+?
5. Are there any other good places to buy these parts online, or should I stick with newegg? Maybe some parts here, some parts there?
Total is:
$205 + 118 = $323 - 30 rebate on GPU = 293. Plus 20-40 for the HDD, so
$313-$333 without shipping/tax.
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On January 27 2011 18:58 Belial88 wrote:I was joking about windows millenium edition, it was to kind of show my mentality here. Ill probably get a 'free' version of windows 7. like i said, worst case scenario ill run open source free ware, i just helped my gf run ubuntu. Show nested quote +Some advice on HDDs; look for one with a high platter count. This will reduce seeking times significantly, and get you better performance in games. If you can find a 5k RPM drive with a high platter count, it will generally perform better for you than a 7200RPM drive would and may be slightly cheaper. If you can find a WD caviar green going for cheaper than the caviar blue you have now, go for it. Platter counts really do matter a lot as a current gen WD caviar black can outperform a 10k RPM Raptor from two or three years ago with ease. Actually I found that there are some really cheap HDDs 'recertified' and much higher quality/storage. Heres the link to the page: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007603 4016&IsNodeId=1&name=RecertifiedThe Caviar Green is $29. Platter count isn't listed on the website and I can't really understand it on others. Help needed please, definately want to go with 'recertified' here though.
Firstly, disregard HDDs with high platter counts, you want LOW platter counts. I had a really bad brainfart there.
Platter counts aren't listed on newegg, but they mostly matter because lower platter counts means lower seek times. The 8,9 sec seek time the recertified HDDs have is very much standard, so they should be just fine. You're on a budget, so this isn't the time to be picky, and everything looks to be in order with the recertified HDDs. I do suggest you get a model with at least 8mb cache, however. Modern WD caviar blacks generally have 64Mbs of cache, which translates to better performance, so don't expect a high-performance HDD.
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I kind of understand high performance HDD means you pull up files/programs much quicker, ie boot times, things of that nature. I really dont care about waiting another 50ms for a program/file to come up. What I am concerned about, is performance while a program is pulled up. So while a crappy HDD may take 'forever' (2 seconds longer, gasp) to load up SC2, will it have an impact on actual gameplay at all?
This is just my limited knowledge speaking, of course, so i could be totally wrong. itd be horrible if I got this great budget cpu and gpu only to be limited to bad performance because the HDD sucks.
But basically, Ill just get the cheapest HDD, maybe the cheapest WD if the reviews are scathing of the other cheapo HDDs, which Ive noticed they sometimes are.
Basically, the seek time = platter count, and i think thats listed pretty easily on newegg, if not elsewhere,, is what I understand. And get 8mb cache.
Checking out this tomshardware review of the 5670:
http://www.techspot.com/review/240-ati-radeon-hd-5670/page7.html
It seems the 5670 is pretty 'bad' when it came, filling an overpriced niche. Now, as the reviewers said, itd be worth it if it was about $60-70, which is exactly what Im paying (after $30 rebate though). They did say, though, that the 4770 is better, when it was wrtten, here on fthe conclusion page:
http://www.techspot.com/review/240-ati-radeon-hd-5670/page10.html
Now it looks like the 4770 is not available, but understanding Radeons scheduling of performance (4xxx is series, which is better the higher, and within series x#xx denotes quality, and within that quality xx#x is ranking) the 4830/4850 should be even better than the 4770, which is apparently better than the 5670 which was recommended here.
The 4830 is at an amazingly cheap $59, 10 less.
PowerColor AX4830 512MD3 Radeon HD 4830 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
The 4850 is $109, $79 after rebate, 10 more than the 5670.
XFX HD-485X-ZNFC Radeon HD 4850 1GB 256-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
The 4850 seems to be the better of the two, the question is, is the $ saving worth the lesser performance of the 4850/5670? Are these two older generation cards better than the 5670 at all? On the other hand, the tomshardware benchmarking was run with a 512 mb card, not 1gb, but i have no idea if that means anything.
Besides this new stumbling block, my questions posted above post are important! Otherwise, i can hurry up and wait the 3 days for delivery :D
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The 4850 was a great mid-range graphics card when it came out, it's waay more powerful than the 5670, it's similar in performance to the GTX450 or 5750. 4770 and the 4830 are slightly less powerful version of the 4850, but I'm sure they overclock to 4850 speeds easily
I'm running a 4850 and it can run high settings pretty well, but I had to tweak the settings and disable shadows to keep a steady frame rate at 1680x1050. You may want to look for an 8800GTX or 9800GTX if you can find any these days, they're less powerful than the 4850 but are favored for Blizzard games for some reason
But it's still kind of old shit, the 460 768mb is a relatively new modern card that will destroy any game you throw at it sub-1080p. It's normally $160, but at $105 it's cheaper than a 5750 or even a 5770 and significantly faster. It's a ridiculously good deal.
To give you an idea of how ridiculous the performance difference is, here's a sc2 benchmark. 460 768mb easily gets over DOUBLE the fps of a 4770. For price/performance there's no contest
http://www.guru3d.com/article/starcraft-ii-wings-of-liberty-gpu-graphics-performance/7
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Wow okay, really hard to figure out the combo deals on newegg. I sometimes write half page long posts here in this thread only to have the combo dissapear. I didnt realize that you can select a desirable item, and hit "find combos with item".
So Im going to go for a AMD Rana Athlon II X3 3.2Ghz triplecore combo with the exact same mobo already discussed for 6 more dollars. Basically $6 to add an extra core.
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EPT
