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I spent a couple minutes trying to find information on the so-called "480W PSU" that's part of the case/PSU combo you listed.
http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/17-170-016-S03?$S640W$
16A on the 12v rail - that's 192W.
It looks like a P4/A64 era (or earlier) PSU - definitely not something I would recommend for anyone to use.
The rest of the build is serviceable, but seriously guys - please do NOT skimp on your PSU.
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On January 28 2011 23:08 mav451 wrote:I spent a couple minutes trying to find information on the so-called "480W PSU" that's part of the case/PSU combo you listed. http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/17-170-016-S03?$S640W$16A on the 12v rail - that's 192W. It looks like a P4/A64 era (or earlier) PSU - definitely not something I would recommend for anyone to use. The rest of the build is serviceable, but seriously guys - please do NOT skimp on your PSU.
I'm totally agree with this. You can buy anything for the cheapest price but please, don't mess with the PSU because the bad one can seriously screw over your entire stuff.
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5930 Posts
With case + PSU combinations, I wouldn't go for anything lower than the Antec NSK 4482 or the Sonata III combo if you want to spend a bit more money. The two are pretty decent looking cases, are very robust thanks to 0.8mm construction and their small size, and come with Antec Earthwatt power supplies which are very good, efficient power supplies (I think they're 80+ Bronze?) for basic users.
I think the Antec NSK 4482 is $80 on Newegg. Sure you can find cheaper case + power supply combos but I personally believe the better case quality and power supply is worth the extra cost however much it may be.
The best option with a limited budget, in my opinion, is finding yourself a really old beige case and buy yourself a cheap, but good quality, PSU. Case design hasn't really changed all that much and those old hulking full towers of the past (those beige IBM towers or the Chieftec Dragon are fantastic cases) are still amazing cases because of their robustness and how easily they can be modified for quiet computing.
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On January 28 2011 23:08 mav451 wrote:I spent a couple minutes trying to find information on the so-called "480W PSU" that's part of the case/PSU combo you listed. http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/17-170-016-S03?$S640W$16A on the 12v rail - that's 192W. It looks like a P4/A64 era (or earlier) PSU - definitely not something I would recommend for anyone to use. The rest of the build is serviceable, but seriously guys - please do NOT skimp on your PSU.
Sorry, I didn't know that of course when I recommended it. It does say 480W in the description.
I probably wouldn't go any lower than 400W for a build like that.
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Cel.erity,
The $12.99 RAM I chose has 7 Cas Latency instead of the 9 of the one you posted. I was also under the impression that you need RAM in pairs/tris (dual/tri channel depending on mobo).
The HDD you posted is also unnecessarily expensive. Take a look at the HDD's Im interested, I going recertified unless someone can make it clear why someone building their first computer shouldnt do so.
The Antec Case w/PSU included is actually about $10 more than the 380W Antec Earthwatt + NXZT Gamma. My setup is cheaper, maybe better due to the 380 earthwatt (i know its also an antec brand case, so it may just be same quality, but not better).
Also. As for GPU its either the 4850 for $79 or the GTX460 for $104. I know the 450 may be a step up for $10, but its not a huge step up, and the $15 to make it a 460, is a huge step. It seems that in many benchmarks the 460 is clearly at least 35% better than the 4850, and even looks like 50% at times. Its rated consistently as one of the best GPUs for value at $180, so I know $100 is a steal provided the 768mb or maybe brand isn't faulty. However the $79 of the 4850 is just a good price point, being $25 cheaper and much better than anything around it. I'ts a very close matchup though, I'm inclined to go either way, as i've also read many people say the 4850 is perfect to run Ultra settings smoothly, so theres no reason for me to go better than that.
Anyways, I don't know what PSU to go with. Newegg says 399/464 W needed for the 4850/460 respectively. I know they are full of lies though (thanks Myrmidon) so Im trying to figure out exactly what I need.
Here is listed my question about HDD, which is basically a choice between 3 HDDs (8mb vs 16mb vs 16mb Caviar Green). Also included is my current iteration of my build that's been decided.
+ Show Spoiler +Otherwise here's my build, I hope it all plugs in and is compatible with eachother? As far as I've seen, it should be fine (single GPU goes into single x16 mobo, 2x RAM for dual channel on mobo, 95W AM3 on mobo, ATX mobo and ATX case). The only issues are PSU and HDD. + Show Spoiler +
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On January 29 2011 05:23 Belial88 wrote:
Most Up to Date Post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cel.erity,
The $12.99 RAM I chose has 7 Cas Latency instead of the 9 of the one you posted. I was also under the impression that you need RAM in pairs/tris (dual/tri channel depending on mobo).
The HDD you posted is also unnecessarily expensive. Take a look at the HDD's Im interested, I going recertified unless someone can make it clear why someone building their first computer shouldnt do so.
The Antec Case w/PSU included is actually about $10 more than the 380W Antec Earthwatt + NXZT Gamma. My setup is cheaper, maybe better due to the 380 earthwatt (i know its also an antec brand case, so it may just be same quality, but not better).
Also. As for GPU its either the 4850 for $79 or the GTX460 for $104. I know the 450 may be a step up for $10, but its not a huge step up, and the $15 to make it a 460, is a huge step. It seems that in many benchmarks the 460 is clearly at least 35% better than the 4850, and even looks like 50% at times. Its rated consistently as one of the best GPUs for value at $180, so I know $100 is a steal provided the 768mb or maybe brand isn't faulty. However the $79 of the 4850 is just a good price point, being $25 cheaper and much better than anything around it. I'ts a very close matchup though, I'm inclined to go either way, as i've also read many people say the 4850 is perfect to run Ultra settings smoothly, so theres no reason for me to go better than that.
Anyways, I don't know what PSU to go with. Newegg says 399/464 W needed for the 4850/460 respectively. I know they are full of lies though (thanks Myrmidon) so Im trying to figure out exactly what I need.
Also this is still relevant:
I would highly recommend getting 4GB of RAM. Its so cheap right now you'd be mad not to. This set is only $35 after MIR.
The Earthwatts 380 is plenty, 150W for the 4850 and 95W for the CPU.
I would still recommend the Spinpoint F4. I never trust refurbished/open box items as the warranty on them is usually only 90 days limited (as opposed to 3-5 years). If you insist on getting a refurbished one, don't get anything with green/eco whatever. They are 5400rpm drives that are only meant for storage. Get the Caviar Blue.
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On January 29 2011 05:23 Belial88 wrote:
as i've also read many people say the 4850 is perfect to run Ultra settings smoothly, so theres no reason for me to go better than that.
This is wrong. Who ever said that? The 4850 has never been a great card for starcraft 2, the cards from that generation have always Nvidia favoured in Blizzard games - even the 8800GT, which is normally a much less powerful card than the 4850, outperforms the 4850 in SC2
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I would highly recommend getting 4GB of RAM. Its so cheap right now you'd be mad not to. This set is only $35 after MIR.
You may be right, but from what I understand going above 2GB RAM on SC2 is pointless. It's not so much being cheap, then, to go with 2GB then 4GB, but purely SC2 performance, going a penny over the cheapest 2GB setup is pointless. When HotS/LotV comes out or something like that, or another game, or i want to upgrade in a few months maybe, I can always go for 4GB. If you can point out that it does improve performance, maybe even noticeably, I'd do the 4gb.
I would still recommend the Spinpoint F4. I never trust refurbished/open box items as the warranty on them is usually only 90 days limited (as opposed to 3-5 years). If you insist on getting a refurbished one, don't get anything with green/eco whatever. They are 5400rpm drives that are only meant for storage. Get the Caviar Blue.
People have been saying go for 7200RPM, and I have read up on the 5400 - 7200RPM 'Intelliseek' of the Green Drives. One poster on the 1st page said get a Caviar Green, and reviews I've read did say it was actually a bit slower. I think the only reason I considered them, and looking back on it my dilemma of the 3 recertified HDDs, was that 2 of the 3 were Green as well as 16mb instead of 8mb. But, as someone has told me on the first page, HDD only improves boot up and loading times, not gameplay performance, and I could care less about waiting another .425ms.
So thanks for clearing it up, I'll go with that cheapest $23 Caviar Blue, assuming 7200RPm 8mb > 5400-7200 'intelliseek' Green RPM 16mb.
And do HDDs fail often these days? Ive never had that happen. 90 days warranty to make sure no defects is good enough, I'm pretty confident that my HDD wont fail. Its so cheap anyways, I'll just buy another one if it gets broken by a lightning storm or surge, and warranty or not, if you HDD fails all the data is lost anyways, which may be the important thing. Id go for a warranty if my HDD was, say, maybe over $80.
This is wrong. Who ever said that? The 4850 has never been a great card for starcraft 2, the cards from that generation have always Nvidia favoured in Blizzard games - even the 8800GT, which is normally a much less powerful card than the 4850, outperforms the 4850 in SC2
Do a search of "Starcraft 2 4850", maybe even add forums to the search, and you'll see a lot of discussion where people seem to say it performs pretty well for them.
I may also just go with the 460. Although 460 vs 4850 SC2 benchmarks dont exist, the 460 is amazing in SC2 benchmarks and the 460 is almost twice as good in benchmarking done in general (Crysis, other games, tomshardware and review sites, etc).
Also, the 430W Antec GreenEarth PSU, essentially a step up in power of the 380W I'm looking at, is $5. I may just do that instead.
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Quick question, I know a lot of cpu/gpu quality is more about the screen resolution than the graphic/texture settings, even AA. That said, all i really know of resolution is like the settings on my computer (800x600, 1024x900 or whatever). In order to take advantage of really crazy resolutions like 1900x1600 or whatever, do you need a $1000+ monitor/HDTV? Because if I am spending under $400 on a screen, you'd be crazy to think I have the money to get an HDTV.
I mean I'm just going to the dump to pick something up, use an extra monitor a friend doesnt use anymore that he used to use for dual screen setups, maybe find something storaged at my parents house, or $20 on craigslist for something.
Or can resolution be adjusted to fit the screen being used, regardless of what it is (and obviously the better the screen, the better the quality period).
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Do a search of "Starcraft 2 4850", maybe even add forums to the search, and you'll see a lot of discussion where people seem to say it performs pretty well for them.
I'm running an overclocked 4850. It'll run ultra of course, but not at a steady FPS and it'll choke big time in battles. On the other end, the 460 will run ultra at 60fps. It's a world of difference.
I may also just go with the 460. Although 460 vs 4850 SC2 benchmarks dont exist, the 460 is amazing in SC2 benchmarks and the 460 is almost twice as good in benchmarking done in general (Crysis, other games, tomshardware and review sites, etc).
I posted benchmarks that have the 4770 and the 460 models side by side, the 4770 is slightly weaker than the 4850
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i spent 550
just built it last week using newegg and combo deals
i get to play starcraft in ultra flawlessy so for a hundred more you should consider this setup
rosewill destroyer case
asrock 770 extreme sata 6.0, usb 3.0
g skill 4gb 1600 dual channel ram
ocz vertex 2 60gb hd
ati radeon hd 6850 1gb
ocz fata1ity 550 watt psu
athlon II X3 rana 455 3.3 ghz cpu
i get a 7.3 on windows score
If i got a better cpu i bet more score would be even better
maybe a black edition so i can overclock
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^
- Your GPU is overkill, and thus your PSU is probably overkill too
- Your CPU is the same as mine (100mhz faster but its about $10 more which def isnt worth that imo
- For SC2, 2GB RAM and 4GB RAM is the same for performance. I dont plan to run major background programs while playing anyways... Im playing SC2, not SC2 and downloading torrents.
- Why would I get a case when I'm inclined to just use a cardboard box as my case. Only reason I'm buying a case is because I can't predict a case being available at the dump.
- Im going for a Biostar mobo as part of a combo deal. You couldve saved money doing the same, as all AMD Athlons were eligible for that combo.
- HDD doesnt affect SC2 performance, and I can't possibly imagine ever using more than 60GB, let alone 160. Even downloading HD movies, i delete them within the... year.
I dont really care about Windows score, I want Starcraft2 score if anything, and money is my biggest concern, with +/- maybe $80 total to upgrade things if worth it (which I plan is 20 for CPU, 25 for GPU, and 10 for necessary PSU).
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On January 29 2011 08:44 Belial88 wrote:
Quick question, I know a lot of cpu/gpu quality is more about the screen resolution than the graphic/texture settings, even AA. That said, all i really know of resolution is like the settings on my computer (800x600, 1024x900 or whatever). In order to take advantage of really crazy resolutions like 1900x1600 or whatever, do you need a $1000+ monitor/HDTV? Because if I am spending under $400 on a screen, you'd be crazy to think I have the money to get an HDTV.
I mean I'm just going to the dump to pick something up, use an extra monitor a friend doesnt use anymore that he used to use for dual screen setups, maybe find something storaged at my parents house, or $20 on craigslist for something.
Or can resolution be adjusted to fit the screen being used, regardless of what it is (and obviously the better the screen, the better the quality period).
Most individuals who don't know a lot about computers think that 50" HDTVs come with crazy resolutions but the majority of them only come with 1024x720 or 1920x1080.
The majority of 22"-27" will have a resolution of 1920x1200 or 1920x1080. Only 30" will have 2560x1600.
It's best to use the native resolution of the monitor. Using a non-native resolution will result in a poorer quality. You definitely want to purchase a IPS panel over TN if you are into editing. You can read about everything you'll ever need to know on monitors here: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/specs.htm
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Most Recent Configuration/Concerns, Just need review!
Here's my setup right now, and I think I'm pretty decided on it. My concerns are making sure it all plugs into eachother correctly as i have no experience making computers, and my computer knowledge is 3 days of intense research + common sense.
My minor concerns are:
-PSU, does it work? Could I even skimp $5 and go with the Antec 380D instead?
-2GB Ram. I know 4 is the norm, but from what I understand purely for SC2 performance, 2GB is the exact same as 16GB. There would be no difference in performance, so might as well upgrade at a later date if I really want to.
-Mobo - make sure i all plugs together!
Kingston 1GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) Desktop Memory Model KVR1066D3/1GR
its the cheapest, so x 2 for Dual Channel.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134784
$12.99 x 2 = $24.98
Western Digital Caviar Blue 160GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136590
$23 Cheapest WD
*NZXT GAMMA Classic Series GAMA-001BK Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
Cheap, recommended on guide. Im inclined to use a cardboard box as my case though.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146061
$39
Antec EarthWatts Green EA-430D Green 430W Continuous power ATX12V v2.3 / EPS 12V 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply
+3.3V@20A, +5V@20A, +12V1@17A, +12V2@16A, -12V@0.8A, +5VSB@2.5A
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371034
$44
AMD Athlon II X3 450 Rana 3.2GHz Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core Desktop Processor ADX450WFGMBOX
+
BIOSTAR A770E3 AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard
Combo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.581121
$124
Galaxy 60XMH6HS3HMW GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) GC 768MB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162058
$104
Total w/Shipping and before rebate: $424
After rebate is more in line with what id most spend, at 350. I only have $425 on my credit card lol.
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I'm running 1680x1050. I wouldn't recommend a 460 768mb for 1920x1200, it'll run SC2 but suffers in some games at that resolution
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i only play sc2. maybe diablo3, but i doubt it from the look so far (arena, lack of hostility and tppk/warden, questionable if HC will be in it).
In 4 years ill have another $200 and i can use that on upgrading the cpu/gpu/ram/mobo. but i only care about sc2 performance and cost.
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Belial can you post how SC runs on your machine after you get it? I'm wondering how well this budget machine will do since I'm also considering building a similar one.
Thanks in advance.
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EPT
