My setup works amazingly, i can run Ultra/Extreme on 1280x768 with roughly 60+ FPS. I know the resolution is pretty small, so if anyone is curious for me to try running higher resolutions or do more thorough testing, I'd be more than happy to.
For now, I'm just going to use this thread for all my concerns instead of making/bumping new ones (questions about overclocking, unlocking, optimal performance setup, etc).
The build I have is the same as here except a MSI GTX 460 768mb, Antec 430D, single 2GB HyperX Kingston RAM, and Athlon II X3 3.2ghz (unlocked to a Phenom X4 B50 with no L3 cache).
I need to build a budget computer, that, sadly, is only for playing SC2 (i have a notebook and an overclocked rooted android for everything else). My roommate decided to move the shared computer into his room.
Budget (basically, what I'd spend just to play SC2)= $399 or less. Id spend about $20 more for an upgrade on a piece of hardware if its noticeably improved, but pass if its $40+ generally. I would like a computer to play SC2 and the expansions on medium to low, and future games like maybe Diablo3 on low.
Resolution = I just want to play SC2. Finding out I can play on medium, maybe high graphics, for $300 was a huge joy to me. I currently/used to play on lowest and its whatever.
Upgrade Cycle = This computer is going to last my lifetime baby! I guess being able to swap a this or that would be nice to keep this up to date, if I care about that, in 2 years. This is a cheap computer, so if I upgrade in the future its possible I just buy a new computer for $300. Im pretty shortsighted though. You guys can discuss this with me if you like, and Ill listen. No one wants to get something they know will be outdated immediately, but I also have a tight budget.
Overclocking = No, not really interested in that. Dont want to shorten the life of my PC either. Id rather lower the settings on my computer. I leave overclocking to my Droid. I am all ears, and am familiar with doing it on my Droid, so I know its a way to get a 'better' processor than what I pay for, if anyone has anything particular to recommend about it.
OS = Plan to use Windows 2000/Millenium Edition. Seriously, there are ways around buying it, and I'm not particularly interested in taking this into account with my budget. Worst case scenario Ill run open source freeware.
SLI = Not really interested, unless 2 half decent GPUs are better than a decent gpu! I do plan to use nVidia on my AMD, as GeForce is to Radeon what AMD is to Intel for budget.
Using Tomshardware SC2 benchmarking, the Falcon Logical Increments PC Buying Guide, and general research, this is roughly what I'm looking at getting, and my reasoning behind the choice. I do not know much about computers or building one at all except 2 days of intense research and common sense. Parts from Newegg.com, as I hear they are the best/cheapest. Wouldnt mind ordering parts from differing places.
*Kingston 1GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) Desktop Memory Model KVR1066D3/1GR its the cheapest, so x 2 because I understand you want RAM in pairs, or threes sometimes depending on cpu/motherboard. Ive heard kingston is good, from my 2 days of research. But there are so many cheap RAMS for the same price, and other good brands too. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134784 $12.99 x 2 = $24.98
*ASUS ENGT430/DI/1GD3(LP) GeForce GT 430 (Fermi) 1GB 128-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Low Profile Ready Video Card 11th Generation GeForce, 200 series is a bit low and 500 a bit expensive. The cheaper 400 series were like less than $10 cheaper and Sparkle, Galaxy, and Elitegroup, brands not in the Falcon Logical Increments PC Buying Guide or I have seen elsewhere. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121397 $69
*Western Digital Caviar Blue WD1600AAJS 160GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive Don't care about space, and I know I need 7200RPM. Again, everything is 7200RPM. The cheapest was a dollar less, and I hear WD is very good. Id run my computer from microSD cards if I could. SC2 is 12gbs, so anything over, say, 50gbs is unnecessary. Really. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136075 $36
*AMD Athlon II X2 255 Regor 3.1GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket AM3 65W Dual-Core Its on the Falcon Guide for "minimum", 3ghz dualcore seems to be minimum for sc2 high settings, its only $3 more than the 2.9ghz. It just seems to be the best value. Its about $20 more for TriCore, so I passed on that. AMD also seems the way to go for budget. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103896 $62
Choosing a motherboard is pretty past me. I assume I'll only use 1 graphics card, so I know I need one x16 port, I'll probably want a large, *safe* ATX. Need to make sure AM3 for processor. Dual or Triple channel, whatever. I just buy as much cheap RAM sticks as I need.
*Antec EarthWatts Green EA-380D Green 380W Continuous power ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Recommended on Falcon Guide, cheap, on a sale. The newegg power calc said I need 280 so this should be way safe for peripherals. Really, 100W i think is way more than I need. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371033 $39
iskDrive = go to dump and rip one from a computer. Although I have the CD for SC2 I can either copy the file from another computer and paste, or digital download.
*Windows = arent there 'free' versions available?
Yea so that's all. Really the only thing stopping me from ordering this right now is I would like to have feedback, as all I know about computers came from the last 2 days of intense research, and common sense. I know TL members have better things to do with their time, but if you dont, cheers.
looks like a pretty good list to me, for 400 bucks that would be a pretty legit computer. The only thing that concerns me a little bit is the 380W power supply- make sure you check on the 430 graphics card for what its power requirement is and that it can provide enough amperage for ALL of your peripherals.
i guess i'm kind of biased towards putting together a "budget" machine, because even in the 600$ price range the boost in performance you'd get would be astronomical. Not to mention run pretty much any game for the next 5 years at least.
that machine will most definitely at least RUN every game on the market today, and likely many for the next couple of years at least. If that is your main concern, i say go for it- looks like youre all set!
EDIT: btw the athlon 555 can be unlocked to a quad-core after you buy it, giving you the performance of the 955 phenom for a lot less money. theres no guarantee it will unlock its other two cores (depends on the mobo compatibility) but if it does- hey, two more free proccessing cores!
Overclocking does not shorten the life of a component unless you are giving it more voltage or its giving off more heat. It's how AMD and Intel all sell chips at different speeds.
If you're adventurous, you can go caseless! Just lay out everything on a table. Earthwatts Green 380D is actually pretty decent and has the electrical capability (if not the connectors) to handle a much more powerful GPU up to something like a HD 6950, GTX 560 Ti, etc. given your low-end CPU and lack of other components.
I'm agreed on HD 5570/5670 over GT 430 though, but that's not a huge deal.
Low-end combo motherboard should be fine (usually), since you're not doing much on the system. Higher-end motherboards just have more features, more connectivity options, better voltage regulation modules, better heat dissipation from sensitive components, maybe better customer support, etc. It doesn't sound like you'll need any of those things.
Lol Aduromors. That's really expensive. I mean Im better off taking the bus than getting a Mazda, so Id make it a Mazeratti.
SC2 doesnt really require a top-end graphics card, and the $70 card I got is ahead of what SC2 was designed about anyways (9/10 series). Having any dedicated graphics card, especially one bought today, is enough. Tomshardware does an analysis and only the lowest radeons had trouble keeping up, and that was only at the highest of settings and resolutions. The GeForce 240 barely stuttered, so my choice of 400 series is pretty much the bottom of what will not stutter at all.
Great input about the video card people, exactly what I was looking for. Ill see what I think about it in a bit (roommate isnt here, precious sc2 time!). My biggest concern is the motherboard, I really am not sure what to get.
And about the phenom unlocking, phenom is just too expensive. There was one phenom that was actually within budget, I think its $19 ahead of whta I was looking for.
Anyways this isnt a good reply, Ill post a better one in a couple hours. Thanks though!
That looks pretty good, I'd agree with switching out the gt430 for one of these: 1: XFX 5670 1GB DDR5 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150467 That will be quite a bit faster than the gt430, and is $10 more than the gt430 after the rebate.
3. XFX Radeon HD 5570 1GB 128-bit DDR2 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150485\ Not totally sure how much the DDR2 slows this down, however it should be as fast as the gt430 and the best part is that after you send in the rebate it costs $45
On January 27 2011 15:07 SpooN) wrote: EDIT: btw the athlon 555 can be unlocked to a quad-core after you buy it, giving you the performance of the 955 phenom for a lot less money. theres no guarantee it will unlock its other two cores (depends on the mobo compatibility) but if it does- hey, two more free proccessing cores!
There is no "athlon 555". The 555 is a phenom ii. Although there have allegedly been exceptions, the dual core athlon iis are dual core by design and have no disabled cores to unlock.
On January 27 2011 14:17 Belial88 wrote: OS = Plan to use Windows 2000/Millenium Edition. Seriously, there are ways around buying it, and I'm not particularly interested in taking this into account with my budget. Worst case scenario Ill run open source freeware.
If you're going to optimize sc2 performance with your hardware choices, I suggest that you go for an Athlon II x4 quad-core or a tricore if there's no way you can fit the quad into your budget. While SC2 can only fully use two processor cores, it gets slightly suboptimal gains from up to 2 additional threads. This is important because SC2 is a very CPU limited game, and if you play on the low settings you will likely be bottlenecked by the cpu, not the gpu. If potentially playing diablo 3 is also a priority, the quad core will serve you better. The absolute minimum requirement for SC2 according to blizzard is a single core pentium 4 prescott architecture processor (it has hyper-threading and uses 2 threads, woooo!), but the CPU matters a lot regardless of what resolution and video settings you use.
As for the motherboard, get the cheapest AM3 motherboard you can find. It's as simple as that.
You shouldn't stress a lot about the GPU, seeing as you'll be playing with low settings. A Radeon 9800 pro (128Mb AGP card) can run SC2 @ 1280x1024, and a GTX 460 can easily handle ultra at full HD resolutions. SC2 is much more CPU limited than it is GPU limited. GPUs are also much easier to upgrade in the future, in case you decide to go along with upgrading in two years. duk3 had a great recommendation in the radeon 5570 1GB that was $45 after rebates.
Any PSU Myrmidon recommends is bound to be good. That man knows his PSUs better than I know the back of my hand. I've also heard lots of good things from Antec Earthwatts, so you can't go wrong with the PSU you selected.
Some advice on HDDs; look for one with a high platter count. This will reduce seeking times significantly, and get you better performance in games. If you can find a 5k RPM drive with a high platter count, it will generally perform better for you than a 7200RPM drive would and may be slightly cheaper. If you can find a WD caviar green going for cheaper than the caviar blue you have now, go for it. Platter counts really do matter a lot as a current gen WD caviar black can outperform a 10k RPM Raptor from two or three years ago with ease.
EDIT: I mean a lower platter count. The HDD is built so that the data is stored on multiple cd-like storage platters. Lower platter count means the drive doesn't have to search as many platters for the data it needs, and the drive doesn't need as beefy a motor to spin. Man, was that a brainfart.
Don't go for windows 2000/ME. Stalk around and try to find a license for XP that's no longer in use. Win2000 and ME were pretty horrible from what I remember.
If you're going to head to the dump, you may as well pick up a case while there to go along with the disk drive. You can also probably find a computer fan to help with any possible cooling issues.
You may also want to stalk craigslist or ebay for offers on older computers. You can actually find pretty sweet deals and you may get better value than if you had bought the computer new. Buying a used computer may also solve your OS problem.
skyR, the reviews on the NXZT Gamma case I chose was better than the reviews on the coolermaster. If someone could comment about the Top mounted PSU vs Bottom or something like that, that may be interesting. Ill stick with Gamma for now, it is only $40 and it seems a good deal for what I pay for.
I assumed that the GT430, being 11th generation, would be better than the GT 200 series 10th generation. i was wrong, according to that article, as the GT430 is the bottom of the barrel of the 400 series.
So I'll shoot for a Radeon weaker than the 240, unless by now (the article came at SC2 release) one is better because cheaper/newer. Im still looking over the posts and comparing though...
I was joking about windows millenium edition, it was to kind of show my mentality here. Ill probably get a 'free' version of windows 7. like i said, worst case scenario ill run open source free ware, i just helped my gf run ubuntu.
Some advice on HDDs; look for one with a high platter count. This will reduce seeking times significantly, and get you better performance in games. If you can find a 5k RPM drive with a high platter count, it will generally perform better for you than a 7200RPM drive would and may be slightly cheaper. If you can find a WD caviar green going for cheaper than the caviar blue you have now, go for it. Platter counts really do matter a lot as a current gen WD caviar black can outperform a 10k RPM Raptor from two or three years ago with ease.
Platter count isn't listed on the website and I can't really understand it on others. Help needed please, definately want to go with 'recertified' here though.
Yea I think Ill go for that one. The cheaper XFX is 512 mb instead of 1gb, which I imagine is the biggest deal in terms of quality in GPUs. Nice find, it really does compare nicely to the other 5670s. Radeon is a lot easier to figure out than the tricky GeForce cards! The 5600 series isnt benchmarked on Toms Hardware, but the 5500 was just slightly worse than the 240, albeit it couldnt play ultra at high resolution whereas the 240 just barely made it 'playable'. However, budget is the biggest concern, and ultra settings isnt really what Im aiming for. Im pretty much trying to play medium passably with my system here so it can handle the future expansions, and try to get good 'steals' in the process.
My questions are: 1. RAM: I simply chose the cheapest RAM possible. Should I go for 4GB RAM, or is 2GB enough (the recommended specs anyways)? I can always upgrade in 2 years if need be anyways. I know DDR3 is nice, but everything is DDR3 now. I also know theres no noticeable difference in 1033/1600 or whatever. So what else is there to determine RAM, why are some RAM 100s of dollars? Obviously, I dont want to buy this cheap RAM to find out itll ruin my computer and blow up. Here's the memory page: http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=147&name=Desktop-Memory
2. Which HDD to get on that recertifed page? I dont really understand whats better (besides get 7200 RPM which they all have), i just want cheap and storage isnt an issue. I think WD is the brand I hear is best, and there are pretty cheapo WD's listed. Caviar Blue mostly, someone also recommended caviar green here.
3. Of my GPU or CPU, or maybe motherboard, or RAM, which is the bottleneck, if any? If so, which part should I up/downgrade? Or are all these parts 'compatible' perfectly?
4. On the newegg power calculator it said i need 326W (when I put high end mobo instead of medium, 26 W difference). With a few peripherals like mouse, keyboard, monitor, maybe charging a phone, is that cutting it too close with the 380 80+?
5. Are there any other good places to buy these parts online, or should I stick with newegg? Maybe some parts here, some parts there?
Total is: $205 + 118 = $323 - 30 rebate on GPU = 293. Plus 20-40 for the HDD, so $313-$333 without shipping/tax.
On January 27 2011 18:58 Belial88 wrote: I was joking about windows millenium edition, it was to kind of show my mentality here. Ill probably get a 'free' version of windows 7. like i said, worst case scenario ill run open source free ware, i just helped my gf run ubuntu.
Some advice on HDDs; look for one with a high platter count. This will reduce seeking times significantly, and get you better performance in games. If you can find a 5k RPM drive with a high platter count, it will generally perform better for you than a 7200RPM drive would and may be slightly cheaper. If you can find a WD caviar green going for cheaper than the caviar blue you have now, go for it. Platter counts really do matter a lot as a current gen WD caviar black can outperform a 10k RPM Raptor from two or three years ago with ease.
Platter count isn't listed on the website and I can't really understand it on others. Help needed please, definately want to go with 'recertified' here though.
Firstly, disregard HDDs with high platter counts, you want LOW platter counts. I had a really bad brainfart there. Platter counts aren't listed on newegg, but they mostly matter because lower platter counts means lower seek times. The 8,9 sec seek time the recertified HDDs have is very much standard, so they should be just fine. You're on a budget, so this isn't the time to be picky, and everything looks to be in order with the recertified HDDs. I do suggest you get a model with at least 8mb cache, however. Modern WD caviar blacks generally have 64Mbs of cache, which translates to better performance, so don't expect a high-performance HDD.
I kind of understand high performance HDD means you pull up files/programs much quicker, ie boot times, things of that nature. I really dont care about waiting another 50ms for a program/file to come up. What I am concerned about, is performance while a program is pulled up. So while a crappy HDD may take 'forever' (2 seconds longer, gasp) to load up SC2, will it have an impact on actual gameplay at all?
This is just my limited knowledge speaking, of course, so i could be totally wrong. itd be horrible if I got this great budget cpu and gpu only to be limited to bad performance because the HDD sucks.
But basically, Ill just get the cheapest HDD, maybe the cheapest WD if the reviews are scathing of the other cheapo HDDs, which Ive noticed they sometimes are.
Basically, the seek time = platter count, and i think thats listed pretty easily on newegg, if not elsewhere,, is what I understand. And get 8mb cache.
It seems the 5670 is pretty 'bad' when it came, filling an overpriced niche. Now, as the reviewers said, itd be worth it if it was about $60-70, which is exactly what Im paying (after $30 rebate though). They did say, though, that the 4770 is better, when it was wrtten, here on fthe conclusion page: http://www.techspot.com/review/240-ati-radeon-hd-5670/page10.html
Now it looks like the 4770 is not available, but understanding Radeons scheduling of performance (4xxx is series, which is better the higher, and within series x#xx denotes quality, and within that quality xx#x is ranking) the 4830/4850 should be even better than the 4770, which is apparently better than the 5670 which was recommended here.
The 4830 is at an amazingly cheap $59, 10 less. PowerColor AX4830 512MD3 Radeon HD 4830 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card The 4850 is $109, $79 after rebate, 10 more than the 5670. XFX HD-485X-ZNFC Radeon HD 4850 1GB 256-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
The 4850 seems to be the better of the two, the question is, is the $ saving worth the lesser performance of the 4850/5670? Are these two older generation cards better than the 5670 at all? On the other hand, the tomshardware benchmarking was run with a 512 mb card, not 1gb, but i have no idea if that means anything.
Besides this new stumbling block, my questions posted above post are important! Otherwise, i can hurry up and wait the 3 days for delivery :D
The 4850 was a great mid-range graphics card when it came out, it's waay more powerful than the 5670, it's similar in performance to the GTX450 or 5750. 4770 and the 4830 are slightly less powerful version of the 4850, but I'm sure they overclock to 4850 speeds easily
I'm running a 4850 and it can run high settings pretty well, but I had to tweak the settings and disable shadows to keep a steady frame rate at 1680x1050. You may want to look for an 8800GTX or 9800GTX if you can find any these days, they're less powerful than the 4850 but are favored for Blizzard games for some reason
But it's still kind of old shit, the 460 768mb is a relatively new modern card that will destroy any game you throw at it sub-1080p. It's normally $160, but at $105 it's cheaper than a 5750 or even a 5770 and significantly faster. It's a ridiculously good deal.
Wow okay, really hard to figure out the combo deals on newegg. I sometimes write half page long posts here in this thread only to have the combo dissapear. I didnt realize that you can select a desirable item, and hit "find combos with item".
So Im going to go for a AMD Rana Athlon II X3 3.2Ghz triplecore combo with the exact same mobo already discussed for 6 more dollars. Basically $6 to add an extra core.
A word of warning if your going to go with recertified computer parts, especially HDs. Make sure you do a full format and scan the drives for health/stability. Most "recertified" parts are exactly what was returned by someone else, defects and all. And the warranty on recertified parts is sometimes a bit iffy. I would rather grab a 640gb+ samsung for 60~$ then have to worry about HD failure.
Also, you picked a bad time to build a new PC, you should have done this a month ago when everything was on sale. I picked up a bunch of 1.5 terabyte HDs at 65$ a pop.
Depeneding on how fast you want this "budget PC" built, If you really want to save money or get more bang for your buck: wait for a major holiday sale.
GT240. Basically minimum quality for good SC2 performance, and cheapest (i dont know why I didnt see this earlier, i think I presumed 430 was better and never looked back on nvidia) ASUS ENGT240/DI/1GD3/A GeForce GT 240 1GB 128-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card Cheapest GT240 with 1GB. I hear ASUS is very good too. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121353 $79, 59 after rebate
The Radeon 4830 is at an amazingly cheap $59 PowerColor AX4830 512MD3 Radeon HD 4830 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131381 At the same price of the GT240, its simply a matter of which is better.
The 4850 is $109, $79 after rebate, 10 more than the 5670. XFX HD-485X-ZNFC Radeon HD 4850 1GB 256-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150482 Is it better than the GT240? Is it $20 better or can I find a better deal on a different type with that kind of money?
Of course, the 5670 is still a contender. Its mainly my ignorance that I ask which is best, I know they are somewhat simillar. XFX HD-567X-ZNF3 Radeon HD 5670 1GB 128-bit DDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150467 at $99/69 after rebate.
theres also that GPU i laughed at earlier for being too expensive, but with the rebate its actually somewhat reasonable. Still, this is at least 40 more over the highest of the above options, so this really needs to stand far and ahead better (which it seems to on toms hardware). its only 768 MB, but then again I have no idea what that means. Galaxy 60XMH6HS3HMW GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) GC 768MB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162058 $109 after rebate
SO. Along with the processor debate, and these questions, that's all I need to know to buy a computer. i want to make sure the processor i get doesnt have bottleneck issues with my planned Athlon II X3 3.2Ghz Rena.
1. RAM: I simply chose the cheapest RAM possible. Should I go for 4GB RAM, or is 2GB enough (the recommended specs anyways)? I can always upgrade in 2 years if need be anyways. I know DDR3 is nice, but everything is DDR3 now. I also know theres no noticeable difference in 1033/1600 or whatever. So what else is there to determine RAM, why are some RAM 100s of dollars? Obviously, I dont want to buy this cheap RAM to find out itll ruin my computer and blow up. Here's the memory page: http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=147&name=Desktop-Memory
2. Which HDD to get on that recertifed page? I dont really understand whats better (besides get 7200 RPM which they all have), i just want cheap and storage isnt an issue. I think WD is the brand I hear is best, and there are pretty cheapo WD's listed. Caviar Blue mostly, someone also recommended caviar green here. I kind of understand high performance HDD means you pull up files/programs much quicker, ie boot times, things of that nature. I really dont care about waiting another 50ms for a program/file to come up. What I am concerned about, is performance while a program is pulled up. So while a crappy HDD may take 'forever' (2 seconds longer, gasp) to load up SC2, will it have an impact on actual gameplay at all? http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007603 4016&IsNodeId=1&name=Recertified
3. Of my GPU or CPU, or maybe motherboard, or RAM, which is the bottleneck, if any? If so, which part should I up/downgrade? Or are all these parts 'compatible' perfectly?
4. On the newegg power calculator it said i need 326W (when I put high end mobo instead of medium, 26 W difference). With a few peripherals like mouse, keyboard, monitor, maybe charging a phone, is that cutting it too close with the 380 80+?
5. Are there any other good places to buy these parts online, or should I stick with newegg? Maybe some parts here, some parts there?
*Need clarification that this is okay, but no comments yet. Kingston 1GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) Desktop Memory Model KVR1066D3/1GR its the cheapest, so x 2 because I understand you want RAM in pairs, or threes sometimes depending on cpu/motherboard. Ive heard kingston is good, from my 2 days of research. But there are so many cheap RAMS for the same price, and other good brands too. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134784 $12.99 x 2 = $24.98
*Antec EarthWatts Green EA-380D Green 380W Continuous power ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Recommended on Falcon Guide, cheap, on a sale. The newegg power calc said I need 280 so this should be way safe for peripherals. Really, 100W i think is way more than I need. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371033 $39
mcnell if recertified HDD is that bad, then the $36 WD i posted on my first post is good? or would you recommend another budget HDD? $60 is way too much when I really need only like 80 GBs max and just using this computer for gaming performance, and not care how long bootup takes or how long it takes to start a program, so long as the program/starcraft2 runs good (with budget in mind). Also not waiting until November for a computer thats so relatively cheap. By then this will be more outdated, Id rather pay an extra $100 for a year of playing. Its not like I cant make money, its just id rather not spend too much as someone who just graduated.
SC2 can't allocate more RAM than 2GB so you'll fine as long as you aren't running many background applications and do regular restarts / shutdowns to start with fresh memory. When purchasing RAM, you're essentially paying for the warranty and customer service. Don't worry about speeds or timings, those have very little effects on gaming.
HDDs do not have an impact on FPS, your storage medium just affects the loading time and benchmarking scores. Western Digital is good and so is Samsung, you can't go wrong with either. If you value warranty, get a Western Digital Caviar Black (5 year warranty). If not, go for something else such as your original drive choice or a Samsung F4 Spinpoint: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152244
As for platter count, the less platters there are, the less noise and heat the HDD will produce. If you're buying a HDD smaller than 320gb than it's generally 1 platter.
380W is fine for those components. I doubt you can even draw 300W+ from your components even if every component was under full load.
For the US, there are other places such as www.tigerdirect.com and www.frys.com. You should also check to see if you have a www.microcenter.com near you as they have AMAZING pricing for local buyers. You can also try forums if you trust dealing with users (www.hardforum.com).
The 4850 for $80 after mail in rebate is the best one there. You'll be able to play high/ultra on low resolutions and it'll give you the capability of upgrading your monitor to a higher resolution and still being able to play medium/high.
I think the HD 4830 for $60 is the best one there, but the HD 4850 for $80 is good too. At those prices, the $20 difference is fair. However, you don't need to wait on a rebate for the HD 4830. It's still somewhat more powerful than something like a HD 5670, which is a little better than a GT 240.
Sorry but most of those choices are crap. AMD Phenom II X3 740BE - 63 euros ATI 5670 1GB GDDR5 - 70 euros Kingston Value ram 2x1GB 1333MHz - 50 euros. 180 euros or 250 dollars.
You can than buy a cheap ass case for about $50 with an embedded 400W PSU, a good HD no matter what size or manufacturer will cost no more than $60, DVD-RW+/- about $20 and download XP from a torrent site for free.
Full cost: $380 us dollars and I just gained you 20% more performance!
UPS: a decent motherboard would also set you back $60 dollars, so maybe you should go for the cheaper ram anyways and save $25.
On January 28 2011 01:50 thehitman wrote: Sorry but most of those choices are crap. AMD Phenom II X3 740BE - 63 euros ATI 5670 1GB GDDR5 - 70 euros Kingston Value ram 2x1GB 1333MHz - 50 euros. 180 euros or 250 dollars.
You can than buy a cheap ass case for about $50 with an embedded 400W PSU, a good HD no matter what size or manufacturer will cost no more than $60, DVD-RW+/- about $20 and download XP from a torrent site for free.
Full cost: $380 us dollars and I just gained you 20% more performance!
UPS: a decent motherboard would also set you back $60 dollars, so maybe you should go for the cheaper ram anyways and save $25.
you cant just do a straight currency conversion, doesnt work that way. newegg.com for american prices.
Total: $432.94 -> $392.94 after $40 rebate on the GPU.
Gives good all round performance and is pretty much the best value for money you are going to get for $400. Also, the CPU has a chance to be unlocked to a Phenom II X4 if you are lucky.
Total: $432.94 -> $392.94 after $40 rebate on the GPU.
Gives good all round performance and is pretty much the best value for money you are going to get for $400. Also, the CPU has a chance to be unlocked to a Phenom II X4 if you are lucky.
Since SC2 is far more CPU dependant than GPU, getting a sandy bridge now over an old, slow, and, and outdated platform is definitely worh it. And what do you mean by incompatible mobo?
Yea we pretty much went over a lot of the components here in this thread already. i've learned, and mind you my computer knowledge is common sense + 3 days of intense research:
-That GT430 is actually crap, older gen 200s are better and higher 400's are better. Even low end Radeons are better. -MOBO doesnt matter, and I'm not only getting a $10 cheaper mobo, but getting a combo deal making my mobo essentially $25 cheaper. Ive heard nothing good on the reviews of Foxconn either. - RAM is $1 more tha n mine, which is also Kingston. - Your PSU is cheaper, mine I think is better at $10 more. I wouldnt mind switching if the savings arent going to be riskier. - Nice, cheap HDD choice. Recertified's are even cheaper though (quality may be an issue though) - SandyBridge way over budget. Besides AMD dualcore 3ghz+ is more than enough.
thehitman: everything you recommend is a bit too expensive, for no reason (RAM, HDD). Myrmidon has pointed out both the 4830/4850 are more powerful, and are cheaper, so I think ill go with one of those. As for a cheapo case + PSU, I'm all ears. Thats been something Ive wondered about but keep forgetting to ask.
deconduo: Thats the exact setup I have, the only difference being you jump for that Galaxy GTX460, the cheapest 460 available at what seems to be a great discount (189 to 100 after rebate). Im interested in this processor, but really depends on: A. The gains it has over the 4830/4850 B. Will my CPU/MOBO/etc limit the full potential of this GPU if I did get it?
It's quite a bit more expensive. My budget is really where I want it now, but I wouldnt mind a little more if the performance is that much better. I'm aiming for under $400, and I'll cut corners to bring it closer to $300, but as you can see I picked a triplecore instead of a sempron.
My questions now are: 1. 4830 or 4850? Or is the Galaxy GTX460 lightyears ahead and worth the jump from about $60 to $110? It has to be a big jump to be worth it, not a simple "next best processor".
2. Case with included PSU, worth it? My setup is $99, and I know I could shave $50 on this angle. However, even though my setup is cheap I really dont want some freaky blowout occuring.
Yea we pretty much went over a lot of the components here in this thread already. i've learned, and mind you my computer knowledge is common sense + 3 days of intense research:
-That GT430 is actually crap, older gen 200s are better and higher 400's are better. Even low end Radeons are better. -MOBO doesnt matter, and I'm not only getting a $10 cheaper mobo, but getting a combo deal making my mobo essentially $25 cheaper. Ive heard nothing good on the reviews of Foxconn either. - RAM is $1 more tha n mine, which is also Kingston. - Your PSU is cheaper, mine I think is better at $10 more. I wouldnt mind switching if the savings arent going to be riskier. - Nice, cheap HDD choice. Recertified's are even cheaper though (quality may be an issue though) - SandyBridge way over budget. Besides AMD dualcore 3ghz+ is more than enough.
thehitman: everything you recommend is a bit too expensive, for no reason (RAM, HDD). Myrmidon has pointed out both the 4830/4850 are more powerful, and are cheaper, so I think ill go with one of those. As for a cheapo case + PSU, I'm all ears. Thats been something Ive wondered about but keep forgetting to ask.
deconduo: Thats the exact setup I have, the only difference being you jump for that Galaxy GTX460, the cheapest 460 available at what seems to be a great discount (189 to 100 after rebate). Im interested in this processor, but really depends on: A. The gains it has over the 4830/4850 B. Will my CPU/MOBO/etc limit the full potential of this GPU if I did get it?
It's quite a bit more expensive. My budget is really where I want it now, but I wouldnt mind a little more if the performance is that much better. I'm aiming for under $400, and I'll cut corners to bring it closer to $300, but as you can see I picked a triplecore instead of a sempron.
My questions now are: 1. 4830 or 4850? Or is the Galaxy GTX460 lightyears ahead and worth the jump from about $60 to $110? It has to be a big jump to be worth it, not a simple "next best processor".
2. Case with included PSU, worth it? My setup is $99, and I know I could shave $50 on this angle. However, even though my setup is cheap I really dont want some freaky blowout occuring.
- You wouldn't be bottlenecked by the CPU if you got the 460
I think I'm going to do the 4850. For $20 I go from a brand I havent heard of called Powercolor to XFX, 512 to 1GB (again i have no idea what that means but I assume something, and I know a card of 512 vs 1gb of same type is a small difference in benchmark comparisons), and up from a 4830 to a 4850.
I'm really torn between the 4850 1gb XFX vs GTx460 768MB Galaxy. I'm on a budget build, but if i was to spend an extra $25 this is where it would be, as the processor I picked is pretty high end, especially for the price, and $25 increase in processor from Athlon II X3 3.2GHZ is a a Phenom Dualcore 3.4 GHZ, Phenom Quadcore 3.0GHZ, or 1 more core added to my Athlon II. I understand Phenom cache is nice, but from what I understand its: Speed > Extra Core, @ 0.4GHZ additional speed per core > L3 cache (Phenom) (about .2GHZ additional speed for L3 cache) http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/athlon-l3-cache,2416-9.html
With this formula, A 3.0 x4 is about .2ghz above a 3.2 x2, with the phenom/L3, thats maybe a 'quality' of .4ghz. That's $5 a .1ghz, which is a pretty good deal actually, but a little too much of a strech on my budget. There is a point where Im getting a worse deal because of my budget, but if i just wanted to get the best possible value that would be a computer budget of about $600.
Trying to spend about $10 gets to be only marginal gains of .1-.2 GHZ, and less cores. Phenom x3+ is really at least $30 higher.
Im pretty confident, and it seems you guys are too, that the Athlon II X3 3.2GHZ Rana is enough to capably handle SC2 and, save for combinations of I5/i7 + GTX470/HD5870, my GPU is the bottleneck despite SC2 being a CPU game, and while about 35% less performance, its also $25 cheaper.
One concern with the 4850 is it says: Minimum 450 Watt Power Supply Requirement
I was shooting for the $39 Antec 380W 80+, but Newegg power calculator says I need 399 now. i guess I need to buy an updated PSU which means the true cost of the 4850 is $89. That's $30 more than the 4830 512mb, which I believe is better than the 5670 which was $69. So I'm basically paying $20 for 5670 to 4850.
My questions now are: 1. 4830 or 4850? Or is the Galaxy GTX460 lightyears ahead and worth the jump from about $60 to $110? It has to be a big jump to be worth it, not a simple "next best processor".
On January 28 2011 10:49 Belial88 wrote: One concern with the 4850 is it says: Minimum 450 Watt Power Supply Requirement
I was shooting for the $39 Antec 380W 80+, but Newegg power calculator says I need 399 now. i guess I need to buy an updated PSU which means the true cost of the 4850 is $89. That's $30 more than the 4830 512mb, which I believe is better than the 5670 which was $69. So I'm basically paying $20 for 5670 to 4850.
Newegg (and some other PSU calculators) have a vested interest in getting you to buy something more expensive than what you need. It's also gives them a lot less headaches if people buy something over what they need than under what they need. Also, newegg sells a whole bunch of crap PSUs that won't do what their label says they can. (It's also more complicated than that, e.g. see ATX versions, continuous vs. peak power, etc.). Suffice to say that the Earthwatts 380D is not a crap PSU, so it'll easily power a Athlon II X3 and GTX 460 (which takes significantly more power than a HD 4850), no matter what the calculators tell you.
See the link I posted earlier about the power consumption of a Core 2 Duo and HD 4850. It didn't go over 189W on full load. A typical system with a Athlon II X3 + GTX 460 would be more like 300W on full load, well within the capabilities of a Earthwatts 380D. Real-world power consumption would be a lot lower than the full load scenario with synthetic benchmarks.
This is a cluster because I have to figure a new PSU from the PSU and GPU selected at first post which was a bad combo. Either the first below, or one of the following three PSU + GPU combo deals. I think once this last thing is figured out I can hurry up and wait 3 days for shipping :D
XFX HD-485X-ZNFC Radeon HD 4850 1GB 256-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card Took forever to figure out, but 4830 512 to this is a big jump. Its about $10-20 more than the 5670 because of bigger PSU needed. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150482
With this GPU, Newegg's calculator says 399 is recommended, so I'm thinking a minimum of 450W 80+ PSU to go with it, so a 450-500 pretty much means this PSU:
Antec NEO ECO 520C 520W Continuous Power ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371030 Was 69, now 59, 44 after rebate. A 10% Promo code on top, somewhere. Cheaper than comparable 500W 80+ seasonic which has a $9 shipping as opposed to $1 shipping so its cheaper, eventually, somehow, if not straight up from the 55+9shipping.
Heres the combo PSU+GPUs
GIGABYTE GV-N450-1GI GeForce GTS 450 (Fermi) 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card Antec NEO ECO 520C 520W Continuous Power ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.578338 $144 after rebate
ASUS ENGTS450 DC OC/DI/1GD5 GeForce GTS 450 (Fermi) 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card RAIDMAX HYBRID 2 RX-530SS 530W ATX12V V2.2/ EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Modular LED Power Supply http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.578319 $134 after rebate
Obviously, whatever I choose needs to fit with the Biostar mobo + AMD Athlon II X3 3.2Ghz Rana and not be bottlenecked by that CPU.
HDD All recertifieds, Three choices, due to a conflict: A poster previous said go for Caviar Green if its cheaper (although its not cheaper, at 16mb cache and only $1 I think its along his point).I dont think option A is Caviar Green but like a precursor to it or something. I'm either going with:
Myrmidon, if that is true, I can just buy the 4850 GPU i secondly (as opposed to thirdly, above post) planned and save $50 not having to configure a stronger PSU, and thus going for one of those PSU+GPU combos of a 450/5570 which I know are similar to the 4580 and inferior to the 460.
If the Antec 380 80+ PSU also will work with my setup, plus peripherals like wired keyboard, wired mouse, maybe phone charging or whatever silly things, monitor even (if that even draws from the PSU) using either the 4850 above or the $25 more 460, I may consider getting that processor.
i was actually considering the 460 GPU @ $104 but I stopped looking into it because of power concerns. If the Antec can handle both of those (Newegg says 464 vs 399 of 460 and 4850 respectively) than this conversation can be whittled down to either/or of the 460/4850 and I can make a decision from there.
If power is a concern, with overhang and safety concerns, then the above post is still relevant. I really dont want to be operating too close to comfort to the thin red line.
Lastly, GPU choices are concerned with being bottlenecked by the AMD Athlon II X3 3.2 GHZ Rana, my Biostar mobo combo choice, and SC2 graphics. I'm more concerned about benchmarking against SC2, unless you can say otherwise (ie its even but huge leap with other games or future games/aging well)
Last, bear in mind I really dont know anything about computers besides common sense and last 3 days research, and my cheap NXZT Gamma case. I dont really have the expertise to know things like coordinating airflow or underclocking to get away with what I shouldnt.
I'd trust the Antec Earthwatts 380D over the Raidmax 560W and Cooler Master Elite 460W, no matter how much power you're drawing. The Raidmax does not list an honest max +12V power rating and has a lot on +3.3V and +5V, which on top of having no APFC means it's probably an older ATX 1.x design that can't deliver anywhere near 400-500W peak on a modern +12V heavy system. Cooler Master Elite 460 fails and goes out of spec a little over 400W, and overall is no good.
For the record, the Neo Eco 520C is made by Seasonic and is the same design as their S12II Bronze 520W, so that's even better than the Earthwatts 380D. The Earthwatts 380D would be enough though, as long as you're not planning on substantial upgrades over the current CPU or GPU.
Hmm okay. I guess I'll go for the 460 which benchmarks just amazingly, both in general reviews and on the SC2 review (no SC2 reviews comparing the 460 and 4850, but thats the world I live in. Very dissapointing).
Compatible though, with my mobo and psu and processor? I mean, I REALLY dont want to get f'd by a low PSU. I mean am I riding the line so close I wont be able to plug my phone and peripherals to it? I dont know how much they affect the power but you know, standard stuff. Maybe if you can supply some links thatd be easier than me asking a million questions, sorry. I am searching of course as fast as i can keep up with research, I literally have been sitting at this thread and newegg for 72 hours now.
Just got back from Spain for a month, my low-Diamond play is now about Silver, its amazing how fast I sucked (ha). My roommate moved the shared computer to his room, and sadly Im forced to realize Id pay $400 just to play starcraft. You all know what that like though. Oh, and I wont pay rent this month and i have a girlfriend, and just graduated with no real job yet, but I have about $430 on my credit card left from Spain/Africa (zero balance be damned!) and i cant use that to pay rent and thats $30 to eat for 2 weeks before im scheduled to work again, give or take what i spend on the computerr.
Im trying to figure this PSU stuff out (while it really sounds like you know your stuff Myrmidon, I will do research to back up my $400 on more than a forum) and reading that article isn't as low-power as you seem to make it out. First of all the CPU they tested run at least 40W lower than the planned AMD x3 Im looking at, and the GPU wattage difference is at least 80W. Given that, from what what I've read, computers run most efficiently/best at 70% of Wattage/Rating of the PSU, it seems 380 is a bit low. Im in the process of trying to calculate by hand the power rating though of some of this stuff.
Bleh, sorry to be add here but Im gonna go with the 4850. I hear good stuff about the 512, and Im gunning for the 1gb version. It seems like anything above the 4850 is overkill, and $25 cheaper than the 460 as well as much lighter on the PSU.
Anyways, so I just have the following question about HDD choice:
HDD All recertifieds, Three choices, due to a conflict: A poster previous said go for Caviar Green if its cheaper (although its not cheaper, at 16mb cache and only $1 I think its along his point).I dont think option A is Caviar Green but like a precursor to it or something. I'm either going with:
Otherwise here's my build, I hope it all plugs in and is compatible with eachother? As far as I've seen, it should be fine (single GPU goes into single x16 mobo, 2x RAM for dual channel on mobo, 95W AM3 on mobo, ATX mobo and ATX case). The only issues are PSU and HDD. + Show Spoiler +
Total = $340, and all specs are better than what you have listed. It will run SC2 1v1 on ultra 1080p. You can splurge on some extra RAM, DVD-R, or sound card to fill out your budget.
On January 28 2011 23:08 mav451 wrote: I spent a couple minutes trying to find information on the so-called "480W PSU" that's part of the case/PSU combo you listed.
It looks like a P4/A64 era (or earlier) PSU - definitely not something I would recommend for anyone to use.
The rest of the build is serviceable, but seriously guys - please do NOT skimp on your PSU.
I'm totally agree with this. You can buy anything for the cheapest price but please, don't mess with the PSU because the bad one can seriously screw over your entire stuff.
With case + PSU combinations, I wouldn't go for anything lower than the Antec NSK 4482 or the Sonata III combo if you want to spend a bit more money. The two are pretty decent looking cases, are very robust thanks to 0.8mm construction and their small size, and come with Antec Earthwatt power supplies which are very good, efficient power supplies (I think they're 80+ Bronze?) for basic users.
I think the Antec NSK 4482 is $80 on Newegg. Sure you can find cheaper case + power supply combos but I personally believe the better case quality and power supply is worth the extra cost however much it may be.
The best option with a limited budget, in my opinion, is finding yourself a really old beige case and buy yourself a cheap, but good quality, PSU. Case design hasn't really changed all that much and those old hulking full towers of the past (those beige IBM towers or the Chieftec Dragon are fantastic cases) are still amazing cases because of their robustness and how easily they can be modified for quiet computing.
On January 28 2011 23:08 mav451 wrote: I spent a couple minutes trying to find information on the so-called "480W PSU" that's part of the case/PSU combo you listed.
The $12.99 RAM I chose has 7 Cas Latency instead of the 9 of the one you posted. I was also under the impression that you need RAM in pairs/tris (dual/tri channel depending on mobo).
The HDD you posted is also unnecessarily expensive. Take a look at the HDD's Im interested, I going recertified unless someone can make it clear why someone building their first computer shouldnt do so.
The Antec Case w/PSU included is actually about $10 more than the 380W Antec Earthwatt + NXZT Gamma. My setup is cheaper, maybe better due to the 380 earthwatt (i know its also an antec brand case, so it may just be same quality, but not better).
Also. As for GPU its either the 4850 for $79 or the GTX460 for $104. I know the 450 may be a step up for $10, but its not a huge step up, and the $15 to make it a 460, is a huge step. It seems that in many benchmarks the 460 is clearly at least 35% better than the 4850, and even looks like 50% at times. Its rated consistently as one of the best GPUs for value at $180, so I know $100 is a steal provided the 768mb or maybe brand isn't faulty. However the $79 of the 4850 is just a good price point, being $25 cheaper and much better than anything around it. I'ts a very close matchup though, I'm inclined to go either way, as i've also read many people say the 4850 is perfect to run Ultra settings smoothly, so theres no reason for me to go better than that.
Anyways, I don't know what PSU to go with. Newegg says 399/464 W needed for the 4850/460 respectively. I know they are full of lies though (thanks Myrmidon) so Im trying to figure out exactly what I need.
Here is listed my question about HDD, which is basically a choice between 3 HDDs (8mb vs 16mb vs 16mb Caviar Green). Also included is my current iteration of my build that's been decided. + Show Spoiler +
HDD All recertifieds, Three choices, due to a conflict: A poster previous said go for Caviar Green if its cheaper (although its not cheaper, at 16mb cache and only $1 I think its along his point).I dont think option A is Caviar Green but like a precursor to it or something. I'm either going with:
Otherwise here's my build, I hope it all plugs in and is compatible with eachother? As far as I've seen, it should be fine (single GPU goes into single x16 mobo, 2x RAM for dual channel on mobo, 95W AM3 on mobo, ATX mobo and ATX case). The only issues are PSU and HDD. + Show Spoiler +
On January 29 2011 05:23 Belial88 wrote: Most Up to Date Post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cel.erity,
The $12.99 RAM I chose has 7 Cas Latency instead of the 9 of the one you posted. I was also under the impression that you need RAM in pairs/tris (dual/tri channel depending on mobo).
The HDD you posted is also unnecessarily expensive. Take a look at the HDD's Im interested, I going recertified unless someone can make it clear why someone building their first computer shouldnt do so.
The Antec Case w/PSU included is actually about $10 more than the 380W Antec Earthwatt + NXZT Gamma. My setup is cheaper, maybe better due to the 380 earthwatt (i know its also an antec brand case, so it may just be same quality, but not better).
Also. As for GPU its either the 4850 for $79 or the GTX460 for $104. I know the 450 may be a step up for $10, but its not a huge step up, and the $15 to make it a 460, is a huge step. It seems that in many benchmarks the 460 is clearly at least 35% better than the 4850, and even looks like 50% at times. Its rated consistently as one of the best GPUs for value at $180, so I know $100 is a steal provided the 768mb or maybe brand isn't faulty. However the $79 of the 4850 is just a good price point, being $25 cheaper and much better than anything around it. I'ts a very close matchup though, I'm inclined to go either way, as i've also read many people say the 4850 is perfect to run Ultra settings smoothly, so theres no reason for me to go better than that.
Anyways, I don't know what PSU to go with. Newegg says 399/464 W needed for the 4850/460 respectively. I know they are full of lies though (thanks Myrmidon) so Im trying to figure out exactly what I need.
Also this is still relevant:
I would highly recommend getting 4GB of RAM. Its so cheap right now you'd be mad not to. This set is only $35 after MIR.
The Earthwatts 380 is plenty, 150W for the 4850 and 95W for the CPU.
I would still recommend the Spinpoint F4. I never trust refurbished/open box items as the warranty on them is usually only 90 days limited (as opposed to 3-5 years). If you insist on getting a refurbished one, don't get anything with green/eco whatever. They are 5400rpm drives that are only meant for storage. Get the Caviar Blue.
On January 29 2011 05:23 Belial88 wrote: as i've also read many people say the 4850 is perfect to run Ultra settings smoothly, so theres no reason for me to go better than that.
This is wrong. Who ever said that? The 4850 has never been a great card for starcraft 2, the cards from that generation have always Nvidia favoured in Blizzard games - even the 8800GT, which is normally a much less powerful card than the 4850, outperforms the 4850 in SC2
I would highly recommend getting 4GB of RAM. Its so cheap right now you'd be mad not to. This set is only $35 after MIR.
You may be right, but from what I understand going above 2GB RAM on SC2 is pointless. It's not so much being cheap, then, to go with 2GB then 4GB, but purely SC2 performance, going a penny over the cheapest 2GB setup is pointless. When HotS/LotV comes out or something like that, or another game, or i want to upgrade in a few months maybe, I can always go for 4GB. If you can point out that it does improve performance, maybe even noticeably, I'd do the 4gb.
I would still recommend the Spinpoint F4. I never trust refurbished/open box items as the warranty on them is usually only 90 days limited (as opposed to 3-5 years). If you insist on getting a refurbished one, don't get anything with green/eco whatever. They are 5400rpm drives that are only meant for storage. Get the Caviar Blue.
People have been saying go for 7200RPM, and I have read up on the 5400 - 7200RPM 'Intelliseek' of the Green Drives. One poster on the 1st page said get a Caviar Green, and reviews I've read did say it was actually a bit slower. I think the only reason I considered them, and looking back on it my dilemma of the 3 recertified HDDs, was that 2 of the 3 were Green as well as 16mb instead of 8mb. But, as someone has told me on the first page, HDD only improves boot up and loading times, not gameplay performance, and I could care less about waiting another .425ms.
So thanks for clearing it up, I'll go with that cheapest $23 Caviar Blue, assuming 7200RPm 8mb > 5400-7200 'intelliseek' Green RPM 16mb.
And do HDDs fail often these days? Ive never had that happen. 90 days warranty to make sure no defects is good enough, I'm pretty confident that my HDD wont fail. Its so cheap anyways, I'll just buy another one if it gets broken by a lightning storm or surge, and warranty or not, if you HDD fails all the data is lost anyways, which may be the important thing. Id go for a warranty if my HDD was, say, maybe over $80.
This is wrong. Who ever said that? The 4850 has never been a great card for starcraft 2, the cards from that generation have always Nvidia favoured in Blizzard games - even the 8800GT, which is normally a much less powerful card than the 4850, outperforms the 4850 in SC2
Do a search of "Starcraft 2 4850", maybe even add forums to the search, and you'll see a lot of discussion where people seem to say it performs pretty well for them.
I may also just go with the 460. Although 460 vs 4850 SC2 benchmarks dont exist, the 460 is amazing in SC2 benchmarks and the 460 is almost twice as good in benchmarking done in general (Crysis, other games, tomshardware and review sites, etc).
Also, the 430W Antec GreenEarth PSU, essentially a step up in power of the 380W I'm looking at, is $5. I may just do that instead.
Quick question, I know a lot of cpu/gpu quality is more about the screen resolution than the graphic/texture settings, even AA. That said, all i really know of resolution is like the settings on my computer (800x600, 1024x900 or whatever). In order to take advantage of really crazy resolutions like 1900x1600 or whatever, do you need a $1000+ monitor/HDTV? Because if I am spending under $400 on a screen, you'd be crazy to think I have the money to get an HDTV.
I mean I'm just going to the dump to pick something up, use an extra monitor a friend doesnt use anymore that he used to use for dual screen setups, maybe find something storaged at my parents house, or $20 on craigslist for something.
Or can resolution be adjusted to fit the screen being used, regardless of what it is (and obviously the better the screen, the better the quality period).
Do a search of "Starcraft 2 4850", maybe even add forums to the search, and you'll see a lot of discussion where people seem to say it performs pretty well for them.
I'm running an overclocked 4850. It'll run ultra of course, but not at a steady FPS and it'll choke big time in battles. On the other end, the 460 will run ultra at 60fps. It's a world of difference.
I may also just go with the 460. Although 460 vs 4850 SC2 benchmarks dont exist, the 460 is amazing in SC2 benchmarks and the 460 is almost twice as good in benchmarking done in general (Crysis, other games, tomshardware and review sites, etc).
I posted benchmarks that have the 4770 and the 460 models side by side, the 4770 is slightly weaker than the 4850
i spent 550 just built it last week using newegg and combo deals i get to play starcraft in ultra flawlessy so for a hundred more you should consider this setup
rosewill destroyer case asrock 770 extreme sata 6.0, usb 3.0 g skill 4gb 1600 dual channel ram ocz vertex 2 60gb hd ati radeon hd 6850 1gb ocz fata1ity 550 watt psu athlon II X3 rana 455 3.3 ghz cpu
i get a 7.3 on windows score If i got a better cpu i bet more score would be even better maybe a black edition so i can overclock
^ - Your GPU is overkill, and thus your PSU is probably overkill too - Your CPU is the same as mine (100mhz faster but its about $10 more which def isnt worth that imo - For SC2, 2GB RAM and 4GB RAM is the same for performance. I dont plan to run major background programs while playing anyways... Im playing SC2, not SC2 and downloading torrents. - Why would I get a case when I'm inclined to just use a cardboard box as my case. Only reason I'm buying a case is because I can't predict a case being available at the dump. - Im going for a Biostar mobo as part of a combo deal. You couldve saved money doing the same, as all AMD Athlons were eligible for that combo. - HDD doesnt affect SC2 performance, and I can't possibly imagine ever using more than 60GB, let alone 160. Even downloading HD movies, i delete them within the... year.
I dont really care about Windows score, I want Starcraft2 score if anything, and money is my biggest concern, with +/- maybe $80 total to upgrade things if worth it (which I plan is 20 for CPU, 25 for GPU, and 10 for necessary PSU).
On January 29 2011 08:44 Belial88 wrote: Quick question, I know a lot of cpu/gpu quality is more about the screen resolution than the graphic/texture settings, even AA. That said, all i really know of resolution is like the settings on my computer (800x600, 1024x900 or whatever). In order to take advantage of really crazy resolutions like 1900x1600 or whatever, do you need a $1000+ monitor/HDTV? Because if I am spending under $400 on a screen, you'd be crazy to think I have the money to get an HDTV.
I mean I'm just going to the dump to pick something up, use an extra monitor a friend doesnt use anymore that he used to use for dual screen setups, maybe find something storaged at my parents house, or $20 on craigslist for something.
Or can resolution be adjusted to fit the screen being used, regardless of what it is (and obviously the better the screen, the better the quality period).
Most individuals who don't know a lot about computers think that 50" HDTVs come with crazy resolutions but the majority of them only come with 1024x720 or 1920x1080.
The majority of 22"-27" will have a resolution of 1920x1200 or 1920x1080. Only 30" will have 2560x1600.
It's best to use the native resolution of the monitor. Using a non-native resolution will result in a poorer quality. You definitely want to purchase a IPS panel over TN if you are into editing. You can read about everything you'll ever need to know on monitors here: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/specs.htm
Most Recent Configuration/Concerns, Just need review!
Here's my setup right now, and I think I'm pretty decided on it. My concerns are making sure it all plugs into eachother correctly as i have no experience making computers, and my computer knowledge is 3 days of intense research + common sense.
My minor concerns are: -PSU, does it work? Could I even skimp $5 and go with the Antec 380D instead? -2GB Ram. I know 4 is the norm, but from what I understand purely for SC2 performance, 2GB is the exact same as 16GB. There would be no difference in performance, so might as well upgrade at a later date if I really want to. -Mobo - make sure i all plugs together!
Antec EarthWatts Green EA-430D Green 430W Continuous power ATX12V v2.3 / EPS 12V 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply +3.3V@20A, +5V@20A, +12V1@17A, +12V2@16A, -12V@0.8A, +5VSB@2.5A http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371034 $44
Belial can you post how SC runs on your machine after you get it? I'm wondering how well this budget machine will do since I'm also considering building a similar one.
Sorry to be ADD but again i think I may go with the 4850 because Im not using a huge HDTV, im using some crappy maybe LCD monitor or whatever on craigslist. Even if I did spend money on a great monitor, it seems that 1600+ resolutions are basically extremely high-end HDTVs. Under 1600 the 4850 seems to be pretty good, maybe barely reaching the threshold of ultra, which seems fine. $25 to pay for Ultra + AA over Ultra with maybe one or two settings on just high seems fine to me, and its not really noticeably anyways (especially since I wont be playing on any crazy like organic LED HDTV widescreen, even if I had the money).
even though the 460 is basically twice as good... yea i can just upgrade later on. shouldnt be carried away with upgrading so much, especially going budget.
You don't need a tri core it is literally a waste of money. But if it is a good deal for it I don't see why not. System looks good considering you aren't upgrading any time soon and so the lacking PSU won't be a worry for you.
By the way I used a HD 4850 from sapphire and a Phenom II 545 dual core at 3Ghz on ultra at 30 frames + at 1080p so I do believe you should get the 4850. It is an amazing card and I love it even though I know I have to upgrade I'm still keeping it.
I'm intrigued, please post back pictures and results of your frames.
AyameStarcraft, processors are gone over into great detail at the Tomshardware Sc2 revisited page. Basically there is a big jump from single core to dual core, a minor bump up to tricore, and a minor, albeit more major minor, bump to quadcore that's really not worth the price premiums quad usually has in relation to not just tricores but dualcores. With that in mind, speed is the next biggest factor with a 3.2ghz singlecore doing great, 3.0ghz dual being good, 2.7 tri being good too. I'm only paying about $10 more than a dual core of the same speed, and it's worthwhile in SC2 performance to do this. I wouldn't say a $10 difference is a 'waste of money' when I'm doing a 3.2ghz tricore for about $60 when combo'd vs a 3.2ghz dualcore for about $50 in the same combo (as all athlon are able to do the biostar + athlon combo for $15 savings).
Your post doesnt really say enough to invalidate what everyone has said and the research Ive done, but if you want to argue that SC2 runs a 3.2ghz dualcore just as well as the tricore, with evidence, maybe Id be willing to shave $10 - after all, almost everyone but Myrmidon has been more keen to tell me to spend more then actually being budget and value conscious (which is why I've valued and appreciated his input a lot and his PSU comments give me a lot of trepidation because I really dont want to ride a thin line on PSUs).
Thanks though for your input on the 4850, I think I'll do this 4850 instead of the 260 (ive literally changed my post and mind on this at least 4 times now. The 460 is a hair away from being twice as good while only being $25, but I think I'll settle with the fact that the 4850 can run SC2 on ultimate unless I'm using a $1000 TV, which is a joke. And, I'm getting a PC to play SC2, nothing more. I can always upgrade in 3 months when I have an extra couple hundred dollars saved up, if its really that bad.
Question though: Can I just use any case that will hold an ATX motherboard? Can't I just use one of those beige generic cases? I may just not even order the $40 case, save money, and buy it either later or use one of those generic cases.
On January 29 2011 13:07 Belial88 wrote:Question though: Can I just use any case that will hold an ATX motherboard? Can't I just use one of those beige generic cases? I may just not even order the $40 case, save money, and buy it either later or use one of those generic cases.
Yes, any ATX case will work. Just make sure it can provide adequate airflow to the components.
Personally I think the 380W unit was a little on the low side (should work reliably, but closer to margins than preferred--though people overestimate where these margins are) for a GTX 460. Bumping up to the 430W makes sense if you're getting a GTX 460 and want to feel safer about things, or envision upgrading to something on that level or higher later. For a HD 4850, the 380W is already way plenty.
Look at the numbers again. A HD 4850 won't play SC2 on ultra at most resolutions, at least without fps drops that would be distracting to many/most players. Then again, at least for SC2, many players prefer playing on lower detail settings anyway for visibility/aesthetic reasons.
You can use any case that holds an ATX motherboard, but cheaper cases tend to have problems with bending/breaking, rattling, installation issues, and most importantly, poor airflow. You don't want to kill your medium-end gaming computer in a box that was really only designed for holding and cooling an office computer using integrated graphics.
That said, if you're scrapping on funds currently, I would forgo getting a case at all. If there's no danger of components getting drinks spilled on them, getting bumped into, etc., it should be fine as a temporary solution. Just monitor your temperatures to make sure they're fine.
Well Belial I'm upgrading because I'm a tech nerd and the new sandy bridge processors caught my eye. I'll be throwing it into a system with 8GB of RAM and a GTX 580 so it should last me quite some time :D
As for the tri core dual core debate I'm pretty positive there are some threads on TL as well as other sources with the facts stating SC2 seemed optimized for dual core systems. I shall have a look but to be brutally honest you've got yourself a good build there and my nitpicking really doesn't need acted on
As for the case a generic black no PSU case will serve you nicely indeed. Over here you can buy a case for about 20 quid so I assume you could find one over in the states for 20 bucks (considering in tech terms pound price = dollar price instead of the exchange rate)
EDIT:
On January 29 2011 13:29 Myrmidon wrote:
Look at the numbers again. A HD 4850 won't play SC2 on ultra at most resolutions, at least without fps drops that would be distracting to many/most players. Then again, at least for SC2, many players prefer playing on lower detail settings anyway for visibility/aesthetic reasons.
I'm afraid it can my good man. I'd be willing to screen it too. I can easily plug the good ol card back in.
Look at the numbers again. A HD 4850 won't play SC2 on ultra at most resolutions, at least without fps drops that would be distracting to many/most players. Then again, at least for SC2, many players prefer playing on lower detail settings anyway for visibility/aesthetic reasons.
I'm afraid it can my good man. I'd be willing to screen it too. I can easily plug the good ol card back in.
Maybe "most" was not the right word in either case used, you're right. I half take it back. Are you running at 1600x900 or higher? I'd call min fps drops below 30-40 distracting, which should be about where the HD 4850 is at. Since you've personally tried the HD 4850, what did you recall about the fps?
Maybe "most" was not the right word in either case used, you're right. I half take it back. Are you running at 1600x900 or higher? I'd call min fps drops below 30-40 distracting, which should be about where the HD 4850 is at. Since you've personally tried the HD 4850, what did you recall about the fps?
I was at 1920x1080 Running constant 30 with a frame limiter. It only dropped below that in stupidly big games on UMS maps. Since then, I've started playing the game on low on a 5770 that I'm going to give to my friend once I get some sata cables to plug his dvd and hard drive into ( >.< didn't have enough when I got all the bits together) and to be honest the game just looks nicer on low. Anyway I'm rambling now...
The 4850 in question was a Standard Sapphire model with only 512 MB of VRAM overclocked by about 40MHz on core and 110 MHz on mem.
I'll defer to your experience then. It's probably good news for the OP. I may be just forgetting that too many benchmarks I've seen are running AF and/or AA or testing situations where the game might even be CPU limited.
I just wanted to let you know that working with a mid-tower is misery incarnate. When I did it I could barely fit the motherboard into the case, and working on anything was always a major pain in the ass. I would suggest a full tower if you can find one for a decent price, a mid-tower gets the job done but it can be ugly.
On January 29 2011 14:00 AyameStarcraft wrote: I was at 1920x1080 Running constant 30 with a frame limiter. It only dropped below that in stupidly big games on UMS maps.
lol what who wants to play a videogame at 30fps
I'm running a 4850 at 1680x1050, which is not a high resolution, and like I said before, it's not a good card for starcraft 2. You'd be better off buying a 9800GT for SC2 and upgrading later.
On January 29 2011 05:23 Belial88 wrote: Cel.erity,
The $12.99 RAM I chose has 7 Cas Latency instead of the 9 of the one you posted. I was also under the impression that you need RAM in pairs/tris (dual/tri channel depending on mobo).
No offense, but do you even know what cas latency is? Don't buy things just because they sound faster. The RAM you have listed is 1066mHz, and what I listed runs at 1333mHz and $6 cheaper. In practice, you will never be able to tell the difference between budget RAM and the best RAM on earth, so buy whatever is cheapest.
Yes, there is an extremely minor performance difference between 2x 1GB and 1x 2GB, but is it worth $6? Not really. A single 2GB stick will make you upgradeable to 8GB instead of 6GB, and it has better resale value on eBay.
Also, depending on your OS, 2GB to 4GB will probably enhance your SC2 experience. With 2GB you will be forced to shut down any internet browsers and other programs while playing for flawless play, which I guess may or may not be a problem for you.
Also. As for GPU its either the 4850 for $79 or the GTX460 for $104. I know the 450 may be a step up for $10, but its not a huge step up, and the $15 to make it a 460, is a huge step.
I don't know where you're getting your information, but the GTS450 is about a 20% upgrade over the 4850. GTX460 is probably 25% over the GTS450, yes, but for SC2 on ultra it will make no difference unless you play an awful lot of 4v4 and Desert Strike. You wanted a cheap build that could play SC2 on max settings which the GTS450 can do.
I would emphatically recommend not buying a Galaxy brand GTX460, especially in a cheap case with OEM heatsink and only one fan. The cheap Galaxy cooler is going to make your card run 20-30 degrees hotter than more reputable cards, and it will turn your case into an oven, compromising your CPU, RAM, and HDD. Furthermore, you can see that over 20% of user reviews on Newegg are 1-2 eggs where their cards failed shortly after purchase, or the fan blades break off. I don't really know anything about the card I recommended for you, but 450's do not run nearly as hot as 460's, so the cooler shouldn't be as problematic.
On January 29 2011 15:01 Cel.erity wrote: I would emphatically recommend not buying a Galaxy brand GTX460, especially in a cheap case with OEM heatsink and only one fan. The cheap Galaxy cooler is going to make your card run 20-30 degrees hotter than more reputable cards, and it will turn your case into an oven, compromising your CPU, RAM, and HDD. Furthermore, you can see that over 20% of user reviews on Newegg are 1-2 eggs where their cards failed shortly after purchase, or the fan blades break off. I don't really know anything about the card I recommended for you, but 450's do not run nearly as hot as 460's, so the cooler shouldn't be as problematic.
newegg reviews mean literally nothing, and even if you were to take them seriously, there are only 5 bad reviews and most of the bad reviews are DOA cards, none of them are cards that failed "shortly after purchase" so I have to assume you never read the reviews at all!
and the rest of your arguments are all anecdotal. There's nothing wrong with the galaxy cooler except possibly the noise level and the idea that it could "cook your HDD" is possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read in this forum
AyameStarcraft, I am aware SC2 is optimized for dualcore. There is actually a huge boost from singlecore to dualcore. However, there is a sizable increase from dualcore to triple core, and insignficant (a couple frames) from triple to quad (sorry I mixed that up in last post). I know what you are speaking of, but the boost in dual to tri is similar to .3-.5ghz in speed, worth the $10 increase in cost. Its not that big of a boost but it does increase performance.
I just wanted to let you know that working with a mid-tower is misery incarnate. When I did it I could barely fit the motherboard into the case, and working on anything was always a major pain in the ass. I would suggest a full tower if you can find one for a decent price, a mid-tower gets the job done but it can be ugly.
Ugly on the inside? I really don't even care about what the case looks like anyways, even the coolest looking cases aren't as good looking as, say, a slot for the computer in a desk which has a door to go over it. And, if aesthetics (or budget aesthetics even) was a concern, at all, I'm sure I could get creative and bust out the elementary school art class knowledge and craft something up. I'm sure there are a million McGuyver articles out there to make cool looking cases for less than $50 with household materials or whatever.
As for the case a generic black no PSU case will serve you nicely indeed. Over here you can buy a case for about 20 quid so I assume you could find one over in the states for 20 bucks (considering in tech terms pound price = dollar price instead of the exchange rate)
I was just in Spain/Morocco/Portugal for a month (the reason I have to get this computer is because my roommate moved his shared computer into his room) and although not familiar too well with 'quid', I know it's somewhat similar to euros. i think actually the 'quid' was worth more than the euro. Current exchange rates are pretty bad Euro vs USD, I mean you're looking at .7 USD to 1 euro. I'm not only an economist actually, but I travel a lot so i kind of keep up with that (never been to the UK though so pounds are a bit beyond me, and doesnt the UK accept euros?). With that said, 20 pounds is like 25 euros, and 25 euros is more like 39 USD, which is exactly the price of the case I'm looking at.
I just wanted to let you know that working with a mid-tower is misery incarnate. When I did it I could barely fit the motherboard into the case, and working on anything was always a major pain in the ass. I would suggest a full tower if you can find one for a decent price, a mid-tower gets the job done but it can be ugly.
I really dont understand what this means, its almost borderline unhelpful if I wanted to be a jackass. Are you telling me its impossible to use a midtower with my setup, or that it just takes a little more elbow grease and an extra 20 minutes to plug everything in? I mean why would i be working on anything? Even if i did work on anything, say did an upgrade every 2 months (LoL) I dont think its a deal, at all, to have to spend an extra minutes setting something up internally that I pretty much open up a few times a year compared to the hours of time I'll be using it straight up.
So i really dont understand what ugly means. It's not like my case is see through, who cares how bundled up or scrunched things are? Unless its a performance issue. If you can find for me, on Newegg (or anywhere really) a full tower of equal or better quality for $39 or less, I'll buy it. I don't say that to be lazy or a dick, its just that I lack the technical knowledge to be able to tell what is a better case or not. Same with PSUs, which is why I simply picked them straight up from the above linked Logical Increments Guide. (I sort of understand its the 12v rail amperage of the PSU and the rating, but obviously I dont know how to read this because people say different things that are posted so im all hell confused on that still)
From what I understand, the 4850 is better than the GT250, which was basically the lowest rated processor that could do ultimate graphics on the lower resolutions. Mind you, I'm aiming for medium quality for one, secondly I play this game competitively (even if I am not good, didnt play SC1, and a month in Spain means literally I went from mid Diamond skill to Silver level), and third *I dont have a crazy organic LED HDTV* Im going to be using a lay-around LCD monitor, maybe something off Craigslist or whatever i can scrounge up for free.
FYI I think part of the reason why the NZXT Gamma is considered a good value is that the insides are painted black and thus look good lol. Also, it has a whole bunch of fan cutout grills for people to add their own fans. In addition, it has a bottom-mounted PSU layout, which allows a PSU with a bottom-mounted fan to suck air from outside the case if you orient it that way. The 500W and under Earthwatts models have blow-through fans, so that's irrelevant. i.e. these may be features unimportant to you.
It only comes with a single 12cm fan. It's still probably a decent option though. It has some decent cable management options, which should improve airflow through the case a bit.
Using some old smaller-res monitor lying around, a HD 4850 is probably good to go then.
Strongly recommend waiting for a power supply deal on Newegg. If you go with a wimpy 380W power supply, you will not be able to add a beefy video card at a later date to turn your average gaming machine into a high quality one.
I've seen quality 500W PSUs on there for $30 after rebate... you should at least get 430W, which can handle a 5770.
Sorry Celerity I dont know how I missed your post. To address you...
No offense, but do you even know what cas latency is? Don't buy things just because they sound faster. The RAM you have listed is 1066mHz, and what I listed runs at 1333mHz and $6 cheaper. In practice, you will never be able to tell the difference between budget RAM and the best RAM on earth, so buy whatever is cheapest.
Yes, there is an extremely minor performance difference between 2x 1GB and 1x 2GB, but is it worth $6? Not really. A single 2GB stick will make you upgradeable to 8GB instead of 6GB, and it has better resale value on eBay.
Also, depending on your OS, 2GB to 4GB will probably enhance your SC2 experience. With 2GB you will be forced to shut down any internet browsers and other programs while playing for flawless play, which I guess may or may not be a problem for you.
No offense taken, I have no idea what Cas latency is. I had just heard lower is better, I think on the 1st page. That's an interesting point about it being cheaper since I just get 1, I thought with dual channel you had to get two stick, and twi channel meant you needed 3. I didnt realize you could run whatever you wanted, or just a single. Am i getting that right? You recommended a different mobo, will the single stick work with my mobo?
Assuming it works, its a great find though, its the cheapest RAM if you can do just a single stick on a dual channel, zero shipping and $5 rebate. I'll use it if its really compatible.
Of course Im going to close all my browsers when playing. Even if all my gear was $1000 top notch, you close everything to speed up things a bit. If I really need a browser open I can always either save the page and view in HTML, pull it up on my Droid, or on my laptop.
I don't know where you're getting your information, but the GTS450 is about a 20% upgrade over the 4850. GTX460 is probably 25% over the GTS450, yes, but for SC2 on ultra it will make no difference unless you play an awful lot of 4v4 and Desert Strike. You wanted a cheap build that could play SC2 on max settings which the GTS450 can do.
I would emphatically recommend not buying a Galaxy brand GTX460, especially in a cheap case with OEM heatsink and only one fan. The cheap Galaxy cooler is going to make your card run 20-30 degrees hotter than more reputable cards, and it will turn your case into an oven, compromising your CPU, RAM, and HDD. Furthermore, you can see that over 20% of user reviews on Newegg are 1-2 eggs where their cards failed shortly after purchase, or the fan blades break off. I don't really know anything about the card I recommended for you, but 450's do not run nearly as hot as 460's, so the cooler shouldn't be as problematic.
I would prefer something more objective than simply throwing around percentages. The only reason I talked about 4850 being 50% of the 460 is because it literally is that exact amount on benchmarks (about 21fps vs 39fps in Crysis warhead at a reputable site). I think I may have mispoke (i think I meant 460 is `100% better not 50%) but a 20% instead is not that big when you saying 40 frames to 48 frames, and secondly i think thats a bit overstated from what Ive read.
A lot of the reviews were also about DOAs, as someone above said, that doesnt really mean much for the quality. That could be a criticism of UPS if anything (a recent Popular Mechanics article actually said while on average they are the 'softest' they also have the most abrupt g-force changes).
However maybe the 450 is worthwhile, I'll do some research into that. I read that SC2 is optimized for nVidia over Radeon so maybe nVidia cards get a little extra bonus compared to radeon cards in benchmarking. On tomshardware radeons befored much worse than comparable geforces but I think thats just a difference in quality levels rather than actually comparable nvidia vs radeons.
And Celerity's recommended 2gb single stick vs the 2x1gb sticks I had selected earlier, for $6 less. I was under the impression I needed 2 because dual channel. Kingston HyperX Blu 2GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104216 $19
I will look into celerity's comments about the 450 because I just read something about sc2 being optimized for SC2 over radeon, meaning the $10 price increase may actually be enough of a performance boost to justify it. Also, a lot of case comments. I may set my setup on a table for now and use the $40 in savings to buy food, and buy the case later.
Antec EarthWatts Green EA-430D Green 430W Continuous power ATX12V v2.3 / EPS 12V 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply +3.3V@20A, +5V@20A, +12V1@17A, +12V2@16A, -12V@0.8A, +5VSB@2.5A http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371034 $44
RAM either 2x1gb, or a single 2gb if thatll be fine with my dual channel mobo and all.
Celerity, the 250 is at the same price of the 260, and from what I understand they are misleadingly different, and the 250 is way inferior, as in more comparable to a completely different series and generation.
Again, it really comes down to the 4850 and 460. I'm soooo tempted to go with the 460, as benchmarking and generaly tests show it is almost twice as good, literally. About a 95% increase in performance. However, this is based on GPU focused FPS games, as I haven't found any benchmarking comparing the 4850 vs 460 on Starcraft2. Also, anecdotal reports and analysis of the 4850 shows it is enough to play even ultimate settings at all but the highest resolutions, making the 460 an unnecessary upgrade.
I just realized that there is Free shipping on the 460 though, and the 4850 has an $8 shipping charge. That brings the disparity between the two at 104 - 86 = $18. Jesus christ its so tempting to splurge on that, but rational thought and being cool headed tells me there is no reason to do that. That and the fact I have zero money for food until scheduled to work in a week or so except $1 on my credit card if I go with the 460 (build is $424 out of the $425 I have on the card when going 460).
Anyways I know most everyone will say go 460 but 1) this is only for SC2, 2) i can upgrade in 2 months when I get more money if its just so bad and 3)budget wise 4850 I think is better when thinking solely of SC2. heres the links and details for reference, I may go for the 460 if the brand/reliability issues are prevalent (XFX4850 being horrible vs galaxy460 being amazing)
Again I have no idea what any of the specs mean, from what I understand ATI and nvidia made it so damn confusing for marketing reasons, you really just need to research every single god damn gpu independently. unlike ram where size/speed/latency or cpu its speed/core/cache.
I just want people to check up on what celerity said about me geting just a single stick of 2gb memory as opposed to 2x1gb memory.
On January 29 2011 18:26 Belial88 wrote: Most recent concerns/configurations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [spoiler]Again I have no idea what any of the specs mean, from what I understand ATI and nvidia made it so damn confusing for marketing reasons, you really just need to research every single god damn gpu independently. unlike ram where size/speed/latency or cpu its speed/core/cache.
I just want people to check up on what celerity said about me geting just a single stick of 2gb memory as opposed to 2x1gb memory.
Dual channel is just a way to optimize the flow of data when two sticks of RAM are used. The difference is really insubstantial, considering $6 is 1/3 of the way to a whole new stick of RAM, and if you get 2x 2GB sticks you'll have dual channel right there.
If you're set on the 4850, I would just shell out for the 460 instead. It may not be reputable, but a 4850 will quickly be stone age technology whereas a 460 will last for quite awhile assuming it holds up. For $18 it's a big difference.
Most recent concerns/configurations, just need review and I hope the 460 goes with the 430D Earthwatts and Biostar AE770E MOBO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yea, fucking hell dude. $8 shipping actually drives me crazy. Its $18 to literally get a GPU twice as good. I mean compare that price, to doing a Crossfire of the 4850. Ugh, fuck it, I have $425 on my credit card and the 460 makes it 424.
Okay, here's the build, I don't see why I can't order this tonight:
Build is $424 before rebates, after shipping and taxes. There is a $50 rebate for the GPU, so its really a $350 build computer.
Thanks guys, and if you can leave any *particularly* helpful links (things obviously I may not pick out or find too easily when searching) out of the obvious to help me set it up, that may be useful. That way I dont have to post a thread in 4 days crying about OMG ITS DOA T___T
Thanks to everyone so much for their help. Myrmidon, AyameStarcraft, Cel.erity, skyR, Aduromos. Very helpful! And I'll be sure to post results, and benchmarking (I'll try to figure out how to do that). and FPS stuff.
newegg reviews mean literally nothing, and even if you were to take them seriously, there are only 5 bad reviews and most of the bad reviews are DOA cards, none of them are cards that failed "shortly after purchase" so I have to assume you never read the reviews at all!
and the rest of your arguments are all anecdotal. There's nothing wrong with the galaxy cooler except possibly the noise level and the idea that it could "cook your HDD" is possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read in this forum
Based on this and your previous post about FPS, I don't believe you are qualified to be posting here.
a.) If you don't consider DoA to be shortly after purchase, then I want to know exactly what you consider short.
b.) Galaxy is known to be, along with Sparkle, among the lowest tier of manufacturers for aftermarket coolers. Some of us have worked with these cards in the past and know what we're talking about. The fan blades snap and melt because they are cheaply made, the heatsink is basically just a block of aluminum, and the airflow is atrocious (it pushes the hot air back into the case).
c.) HDD is the most vulnerable component in a hot case with poor airflow. The reason HDDs fail more often than ever nowadays is because they are constantly subjected to 45-50 degree heat. This is pretty common knowledge; again, something you should know before posting in a tech support forum. The GPU is generally the strongest source of heat, unless it's got a good cooler like a MSI or ASUS model.
However, if you think it's good advice to tell a novice computer builder to buy offbrand parts, cram a powerful GPU and CPU into a tiny mid case with OEM cooling and see what happens, by all means do that.
^ You just told me to get that 460 insetad of the 4850. I'm only buying that Galaxy 460 because its $60 cheaper than any other 460. If that Galaxy is just so horrible, I'll get the XFX 4850 instead. And from what I've read Galaxy is a top tier brand, not bottom, and is very big in Europe?
And if you can help me with getting a better case, please help me. Your posts are very helpful, they are just kind of against the flow so far so excuse me for being dubious, a bit of it flies against what I've read too. the NXZT gamma was rated pretty high in reviews, check it out on google or something (theres no too many itll pop up quick). And nothing I'm buying is really offbrand except maybe the Biostar Motherboard.
You're v mad and your arguments are full of so much nonsense that it's not even worth trying to reply
But I will say many GPUs, including 460s, have cooling systems that don't vent air outside of the case. The galaxy cooler has it's downsides, mainly that the fan is louder than most - because cheap fans aren't cheap because they have "cheap fan blades that melt", they're cheap because they have cheap bearings
Palit and its sister companies owns more than 50% of Nvidia's marketshare in Asia and Europe. They're definitely a reputable brand but don't expect amazing RMA support in North America...
^ I really don't care if the fan is loud, ill just turn up the sound, and when wearing headphones (which I don't realy plan on doing) it isn't noticeable. I mean damn Id rather save a few bucks or get a way better perfromance than *gasp* there's a minor whirring sound in a box under a desk that I can simply move farther away from me when set up.
As for heating issues, I have that good PSU (right?) and a good case (right?) And I'm not overclocking. I can always overclock in a few weeks and simply rip a fan off a case i in the junkyard (my case has room for half a dozen fans) or buy a good one for $20 later in 2 weeks.
My priority is thus: Price - Value - Starcraft 2 performance, and that's really it. I don't care about aesthetics, I don't care about performance of Crysis, I don't care about general task performance (especially considering a cheapo SC2 pc can handle anything general and SC2/gaming is the most demanding thing for a pc), and I don't care about inconveniences like louder fans. Price, performance, I don't care if its as looud as a harley and as ugly as hell! I don't have the money nor would I care even if I did.
Cel.erity your advice about the ram was awesome. Aduromors, your general help and advice this whole thread has helped me immensely. Please don't fight! I assume doa on means dead on arrival, not dead on 2 weeks, although that is a bigger worry if an issue.
Cel.erity I'm not really sure with what to do with the information about hdd's overheating and the 460 being hot. Even $40 on a better aftermarket fan makes it cheaper than other 460s, the only reason I'm even considering a 460 is because that particular model comes with a $50 rebate, making it $104 wheras every other 460 is $150 at least, essentially twice the cost of a 4850. Like I said, if the NXZT Gamma is so bad I will be more than willing to switch to a case you can pick out for $40 or under since I have no idea how to pick a case and chose that one from Falcons Logical Increments PC Buying Guide.
Do I need like a soun card or anything, or will dual speaker setup w/receiver work fine with like whatever sound comes with my setup/mobo? Will it run surround sound? Thanks.
On January 30 2011 09:32 Belial88 wrote: Most recent concerns/configurations, just need review and I hope the 460 goes with the 430D Earthwatts and Biostar AE770E MOBO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yea, fucking hell dude. $8 shipping actually drives me crazy. Its $18 to literally get a GPU twice as good. I mean compare that price, to doing a Crossfire of the 4850. Ugh, fuck it, I have $425 on my credit card and the 460 makes it 424.
Okay, here's the build, I don't see why I can't order this tonight, and the specs:
Build is $424 before rebates, after shipping and taxes. There is a $50 rebate for the GPU, so its really a $350 build computer.
Thanks guys, and if you can leave any *particularly* helpful links (things obviously I may not pick out or find too easily when searching) out of the obvious to help me set it up, that may be useful. That way I dont have to post a thread in 4 days crying about OMG ITS DOA T___T
Thanks to everyone so much for their help. Myrmidon, AyameStarcraft, Cel.erity, skyR, Aduromos. Very helpful! And I'll be sure to post results, and benchmarking (I'll try to figure out how to do that). and FPS stuff.
So the Antec Earthwatts 80+ Bronze 430D has multiple 12 volt rails, I think 2 but there's a "-12V" rail whatever that means. There's a 12v1@17 and 12v2@16.
So 12x17 + 12x16 = 396. Boom, 396 on the 12v rails, way over the ~250 max needed, so basically gives headroom to operate under 70% load and for my motherboard, RAM, HDD, single case fan, mouse and keyboard, and my phone charger.
Also it looks like my processor + GPU is, on their own, about 246 max load under testing applications like furmark and prime95.
That PSU might not have two power connectors needed for that video card, but the 460 would probably come with power adapters. It should be fine, but you could always get the EarthWatts 500W for $5 more, which is guaranteed to work and would give you a bit more headroom if you ever wanted to overclock
Isn't the 430W "guaranteed to work" anyways? And if I were to clock my expensive computer, I'm certainly not going to set the voltage any higher. With the 430 the operating load, at max, with testing results is 246 / 396 (12x16+12x17 for 2 12v rails) = 62% operating load. From what I've read, the most conservative estimates say 70% (usually 'they' say 80%), which means I have plenty of wiggle room.
Even if I wanted to overclock, I would keep the same voltage as I'm not going to risk cutting the lifespan of my expensive computer. Not saying I wouldnt overclock, I very well will one day, but I wont push it past stock voltage and aftermarket and OEM fans are cheap (case has room for like 7, I might as well go to the dump and get 6 free bad quality fans) and I can use those to keep the temperature lower... but I'm not going to overclock by supplying insufficient voltage and simply maxing out of cooling to combat the resultant heat anyways. Given the overhead though, I can easily overclock, and still maintain over 80% headroom to make things 'efficient'.
Now obviously there are the mobo, HDD, keyboard & mouse, maybe a phone charger, and RAM to consider but they aren't significant, and I believe those all run on different rails.
Point is, is that I do have wiggle room when the GPU + CPU is only 62% of the power on the wattage of the 12v rails.
edit: actually extreme power calc says 258/308 min/recommended so I'm way overpowered on this. I could even do the 380 and be very safe. But with this that means I could overclock higher voltages or even SLI. but thats beyond this thread and would just lead to degeneration of this thread into speculation...
There's only 360 watts on the 12v rails, but yeah all the same it will probably be fine.
Overclocking with increased voltages will reduce a chips lifespan, but from what I've heard CPUs tend to fail around 15 years of continued use and with well-cooled overclocking that's cut down to around 12. Overclocked chips might fail in the long term quicker, but the extra performance will help keep chip relevant for the next 3-5 years
1. How will sound work? Do I need a sound card or will my mobo support dual sound setup? What about 5.1 or something crazy like that? Or will I have no sound for the time being lol...
2. Will my Biostar mobo support the nVidia 460? How can I find out (ie like I am looking for a port or something or the chipset to see compatibility?)
3. 64bit vs 32 bit. i have no idea what this means. For SC2 max performance, which is better? In general?
4. Will getting 4gb RAM vs 2GB RAM affect SC2 performance? If it does, how big of a difference? Will .2ghz, or the 460 vs 4850 be a bigger difference, or should I get the 4850 instead/get a weaker CPU and spend the $15 on 4gb ram?
5. My case will fit it all right? if not, whats a full tower under $40 I should get?
Thanks, really looking this down now! I should order within 2 hours..
1) The mother board has a Realtek ALC662 sound card with 5.1, so you should be fine.
2) The GPU will be fine with the motherboard.
3) In this day and age, there is no reason not to get 64-bit. 32-bit only lets you utilize about 3.25GB (2^32) of RAM. So get the 64-bit. It costs the same, and you will probably be upgrading your RAM later anyway.
4) If you set the theme to Windows Classic, the OS will take less ram, but I would try to fit in 4GB of RAM. When I use SC2, my computer uses about 3 of my 4GB, so I guess you could get 3GB RAM if you can find a kit, it would be a good compromise.
2) You just need a PCI-E x16 slot and enough amperage on the power supply's 12v rail for any GPU. The GTX 460 requires 2 PCI-E 6pin connectors from your PSU but if your PSU doesn't have them than there's no need to worry as many companies include molex to pci-e 6pin adapters with their graphics cards.
3) 2^32 = 4.2 billion, aka 4gb of addressable memory. If you get 4GB of RAM, a GTX 460 1GB. That means you will be left with 3GB of RAM because your GTX 460 needs 1GB to operate as well. If you add another GTX 460 1GB for SLI than you would be left with 2GB of RAM and so on... So always select 64bit operating systems as we won't be reaching 2^64 for a long time...
4) If you run absolutely no background applications while playing SC2 than 2gb is fine. SC2 cannot utilize more than 2GB of RAM as it is a 32-bit application. Looking at task manager, it usually takes around 1.6gb.
5) Full towers usually cost $200+. Most mid-tower ATX cases will fit the GTX 460 as its only ~8 inches long.
SkyR is right on all points except that the reason the GTX 460 is 1GB is because it has 1GB, not that it needs 1GB. So you will still have 4GB of RAM, and the 460 ALSO has 1GB.
Yes the GTX 460 1GB comes with 1GB of ram but my point was that 32bit can only address 4gb of memory. He may have 4gb of ram physically plugged in but only 3gb of it will be addressable and the remaining 1gb will be left for the GTX 460. Sorry if it wasn't clear.
It's exactly as skyR said. Whatever ram your video card has onboard you basically add onto however much ram you have as far as addressable space goes. If it's over 4gb you need 64 bit - if it's under you can stick with 32. I say get 64 bit to future proof yourself (as much as you can in the computer world XD).
I'd just like to note that the GPU you have listed is not only out-of-stock, but is only for the full ~$140, since the rebate offer expires in...you know...about an hour.
anyways how do i get a 64bit computer anyways? Or is it a matter of downloading the right torrents (Windows 7 64bit) or when it is installed select 64 bit instead of 32?
There's a 15% rebate on this. The 12v rails are way higher than the Antec 430D, and getting this PSU will drop the price about $2, meaning I can get that next more expensive 460, which is $20 more basically than the 460 I was gunning for. Yay?
I'm not sure you should be spending all of your money on a gaming rig, especially if you can't even purchase an OS to go with it >.>
Anyway, how powerful of a graphics card are you even looking for?
Its just a matter of getting back on work next week. I spent all my money in Africa/Spain/Portugal on vacation, and had $425.00 on my travel credit card left. Its not a matter of I cant make money, as I manage a restaurant. I just graduated and waiting on the girl to finish this semester so we can move to the west coast so we can get real jobs with our bachelors.
As for the OS, that's what waffles and stuff is for.
Also, I can lose money overall by going with a 2gb RAM that doesnt come with the $5 rebate like the one I selected, meaning that although its more expensive, I'd lose out on a $5 rebate.
FYI reason I can still 'afford' this is because that 460 I picked was so cheap because of a $50 rebate, which didnt affect the cost to my credit card.
There's a 15% rebate on this. The 12v rails are way higher than the Antec 430D, and getting this PSU will drop the price about $2, meaning I can get that next more expensive 460, which is $20 more basically than the 460 I was gunning for. Yay?
Well, what's on the label is pretty much just an advertisement. You're counting on companies to not make stuff up. As explained before (I think), Raidmax isn't listing a combined +12V rating. If you believe the 22A listed, the combined +12V rating could be anywhere between 22A (264W) and 44A (528W). Considering that it's Raidmax, it's likely referring to peak power rather than continuous power as well, but...that's just a guess. I don't know anything about that unit really.
Most reputable brands will give a max rating on each +12V rail and will give a total limit: something like +12V1, +12V2 (combined) max load 384W, as the Earthwatts 430D does.
Electrically, all +12V rails in most all PSUs are connected through to the same +12V rectifier circuitry, so it's the rating of the whole +12V system (combined rating) that's relevant. Each rail corresponds to whatever plugs are connected to it. Some go to one rail and some go to another. Each rail usually just has a separate overcurrent trip point monitor to make sure the current drawn on those plugs combined isn't too far over the specified amount. Though, in practice, many power supplies that list multiple +12V rails don't actually have multiple overcurrent monitors (even some units that are solid and reputable), so they don't actually have multiple rails. False advertising ftw.
On January 31 2011 13:26 skyR wrote: 3) 2^32 = 4.2 billion, aka 4gb of addressable memory. If you get 4GB of RAM, a GTX 460 1GB. That means you will be left with 3GB of RAM because your GTX 460 needs 1GB to operate as well. If you add another GTX 460 1GB for SLI than you would be left with 2GB of RAM and so on... So always select 64bit operating systems as we won't be reaching 2^64 for a long time...
I'm fairly sure that amount of VRAM does not map 1-to-1 with addressable space reserved for the GPU in a 32-bit OS, but I can't find confirmation about that. For anecdotal evidence, my laptop with 3 GB of RAM is running 32-bit Windows 7 with a GPU with 512 MB VRAM, and the main amount of addressable space reserved to the GPU is D0000000-DFFFFFFF (corresponds to 256 MB unless my math is failing me). There are a few much smaller chunks reserved for the GPU too, but they don't amount to another 256 MB.
Anyway, the point about wanting a 64-bit OS is still valid.
Because it was out of stock. My question, is the MSI better (performance, dont care about noise)? I'm essentially paying an extra $20, which is $36 more than the 4850 i was considering. I'm going to buy my NXZT case at tigerdirect instead, where it is $0.53 cheaper due to shipping.
All the GTX 460s are going to perform the same but what sets MSI apart is that their Hawk comes with the best stock cooler available for any card.
I have the 1GB version and just to give you some perspective. I run SC2 on Ultra @ 2048x1152 at 120 fps at the start of games and never dropping below 50 in 1v1s. I overclocked it from 780mhz (stock) to 850mhz with no voltage adjustments and it runs at 30c idle and 63c load (50% fan speed).
Keep in mind that the 768mb version is a little worse than 1gb version so don't expect my results =p
Just found the NZXT Gamma at Wal-Mart for $5 cheaper, at $44 with shipping and tax total. I win! pricegrabber ftw (every other part cheaper through newegg though)
Don't you think GTX 460 is just a "little" overkill for your goal of Low/Medium smooth play? You could save yourself a lot of headaches if you just went with a weaker, cheaper card >.>
Don't you think GTX 460 is just a "little" overkill for your goal of Low/Medium smooth play? You could save yourself a lot of headaches if you just went with a weaker, cheaper card >.>
Hm you're right. I may just go with the 4850. At $104, it was a no brainer to spend $17 for literally twice the power (not exaggerating). But with the Galaxy 460 being out of stock, its now basically $37 to do that (with the $124 MSI being the new cheapest 460). The 4850, I believe, left SC2 at High settings, and the 460 at Ultra. Of course, I play the game for the thrill of competition, not necessarily the graphics or UMS (only play 1v1 ladder), so I may simply decide to play on Low just like everyone else does on SC2, although I dont know how true that is.
I don't really know what to do, it took me a week to finally go with the 460 instead, and now with this going on, I'm not sure. I do know the GPU is my bottleneck though.
I'm not sure you'll be bottlenecked by a GPU when running at Low >.< Heck, Intel GMA HD is enough to play SC2 smoothly on Low.
The GT 240 you mentioned earlier is perfectly fine for what you want to do, and you could spend the money you save on a larger HDD and/or a better CPU.
Hey Belial88, I did about an hour of research and I got what I feel is a good list for you for $430 shipped. Let me get your email address so I can send you the list. Thanks!
Hey Belial88, I did about an hour of research and I got what I feel is a good list for you for $430 shipped. Let me get your email address so I can send you the list. Thanks!
Just post or PM me
Anyways, I could go crazy. I could say "Fuck it, just get the way cheap 4850" or I could say "fuck it, just buy the 460 and be able to afford it" I mean seriously, $20 is not hard to come by anyways... thats an hour or two of work.
yea this is my setup. fuck it, 460 is way better. which will be funny when I end up putting everything on low anyways.
Most recent concerns/configurations, just need review and I hope the 460 goes with the 430D Earthwatts and Biostar AE770E MOBO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yea, fucking hell dude. $8 shipping actually drives me crazy. Its $18 to literally get a GPU twice as good. I mean compare that price, to doing a Crossfire of the 4850. Ugh, fuck it, I have $425 on my credit card and the 460 makes it 424.
Okay, here's the build, I don't see why I can't order this tonight, and the specs:
*NZXT GAMMA Classic Series GAMA-001BK Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case Cheap, recommended on guide. Im inclined to use a cardboard box as my case though. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146061 $39 (buying case cheaper at Wal-Mart)
5850 is a little unnecessary too. Even at Ultra with AA enabled on huge resolution its the same performance as the 260, essentially ultimate perfecto, and in a 2 years I can buy it for $50 to update anyways, if I care or need to.
The only reason I copy pasted the whole *@$! thing was because if I didn't, my hour of research would have been a waste of time. The MoBo and CPU I chose are cheaper than your combo, especially with the mobo rebate. Hyper X is a good RAM choice, better than the kingston I picked. I didn't see the Hyper X when I searched because I chose the RAM with the BEST reviews at the LOWEST price. That's how I do. But hyper X is good.
Oh, and I was wrong, you are correct, the 4850 is $169.
Besides the fact that nVidea gfx cards tend to do things like produce artifacts, blue screens, and windows OS errors/crashes, here is My breakdown of the 4850 vs the GTX 460 you chose: (Left side is 4850, right is Nvidea 460) 1 GB 256-bit vs 768 MB 192-bit (noticeable difference) 725 core clock vs 750 core clock (not noticeable) 1440 Stream processing units vs 336 Processing cores (big difference) Effective memory clock 1000MHz (4.0Gbps) vs 3600MHz (not sure about this one) OpenGL 3.2 vs OpenGL 4.0 (Don't know what OpenGL really is but 4.0 should be better.
REAL price difference = $20
$169 vs $149 (minus rebate = $124.99)
Want to know why the real difference is $20? Because you pay $149 upfront, and you get that rebate check in 4-8 weeks maybe. Not worth it. Money loses value over time, therefore the $25 would depreciate over the 6 weeks or so that you wait for it. I'm not saying that in a literal sense, but rather an economics perspective.
NZXT Gamma Case $40 ASUS GeForce GT 240 $80 AMD Phenom II x2 555 + 770 Mobo $159 Antec Earthwatts 500W $50 WD Caviar Blue 160GB $23 2 x2GB DDR3 RAM $38
Total: ~$385
More powerful CPU, PSU, and 2GB more RAM, and a weaker GPU that can still satisfy smooth Medium play.
It leaves you with ~$20 (if you factor in shipping), which you can use to upgrade your HDD (recommended) or GPU. The more powerful PSU is a fairly cheap upgrade, and leaves more room to upgrade later.
EDIT: Actually, the $20 could probably be well-spent on a disc drive >.>
- Your HDD isn't Caviar, which I assume is the newer generation of HDD. But I'm totally speaking out of my ass here. Isn't the Caviar non-color a generation back, meaning that one is 2 generations back? Either way, its $10 more expensive than my Caviar Blue Recertified, although its double the space and not recertified. 160 is more than anyone ever needs unless they dont delete their downloaded movies every week or takes pictures/art/video professionally and must store them. I can easily get an external or extra if its an issue though.
(lol just read that refurbished line. Its no biggie if it crashes, I'll back it up and not put anything important at first. WD Caviar Blue should be good quality anyways)
- Nice CPU choice, but .3ghz more is only $8. Essentially the same choice though.
- I'm spending a dollar more for my PSU which has better 12v ratings, and from what I understand is superior quality. From what I understand of PSUs and 12v rails, the PSU you posted is equivalent to power/watts/quality as the Antec Earthwatts 380D I posted on the first page. While the 380D may be a better choice for me, i went safe and chose the 430D, which is the next step up of the same product, so I'd be safe for overclocking or whatever I wanted to do, and a larger operating margin.
- RAM, you addressed it yourself. However its cheaper before rebate, i may have to pick that RAM to be able to order this, as I have $425 on my credit card and im spending about $424.
- $45 for my mobo after my combo deal is counted in. Yours is $34. Amazing, I'll check it out too, although I imagine mine is superior quality since its technically a $60 mobo.
NZXT Gamma Case $40 ASUS GeForce GT 240 $80 AMD Phenom II x2 555 + 770 Mobo $159 Antec Earthwatts 500W $50 WD Caviar Blue 160GB $23 2 x2GB DDR3 RAM $38
Total: ~$385
More powerful CPU, PSU, and 2GB more RAM, and a weaker GPU that can still satisfy smooth Medium play.
It leaves you with ~$20 (if you factor in shipping), which you can use to upgrade your HDD (recommended) or GPU. The more powerful PSU is a fairly cheap upgrade, and leaves more room to upgrade later.
EDIT: Actually, the $20 could probably be well-spent on a disc drive >.>
Actually, the .3GHZ speed difference makes the Athlon II better for starcraft, despite the L3 cache. There are many benchmarks on this. There is a phenom for $10 more at the same speed, but I dont think its worth that price difference. And I dont know what you are talking about actually, because what your posting is a combo difference of $30 from my $124 CPU+Mobo.
The 4850, I believe, is better than the 240, for the same price. I could be wrong, and I'm still debating whether to spend $86 on a 4850 or $124AR/149 for a 260. I do count rebate prices though, I can be a real dick on the phone
Earthwatts 500w is a step up in power frmo the Earthwatts 430w i chose, and the earthwatts 380 is all I need but i chose the 430 to be safe and have huge leg room. 500w is overkill, 430 is a bit overkill but can be justified when saying you want to operate at 70% or less of full power, and earthwatts is safe and probably the best choice if never changing.
As for RAM, 2GB is enough for Windows 7 and SC2. Plus, in the future, I can buy another stick. But the $19 price increase for the 4GB setup you posted to the 2GB I posted, is better spent on a GPU or even CPU, which are harder to upgrade anyways whereas I'll just buy another 2GB stick in a month or so.
After some tweaks using your parts and my parts I got a subtotal of $385.94 with no case and no DVD drive, and $393 shipped to my zipcode. That's with the 4850 too.
Hm I really dont know about the case. As for the mobo its a micro, which I assume means less support. Also, its 760 chipset instead of 770, which i assume is worse. I dunno, i really have no god damn clue about mobos, it looks compatible with everything im doing anyways. the fact its micro just makes me wary of it.
hm. well im actually buying the case from walmart, i found that they ship for half the cost of newegg, on the case. so i dont know if your case will be found for that cheap too. ill check pricegrabber.
oh and dvds are outdated anyways, i download all my movies anyways, and ill rip a cd drive from a junkyard pc.
edit: ah damn your case is no shipping, its actually cheaper lol. ill read reviews on other websites then. i notice it has 2 fans instead of 1, but i can get a million shitty quality fans at the junkyard for free anyways.
The 770 ATX vs the 760 Micro is a step up, but I have used MicroATX boards and they're fine. I have a 4850, 3 gigs ram, micro atx, 380 w psu (somethin like that) etc and I've been solid for 2 yrs now with this rig. It's a step up but the reviews for the micro atx I chose are all five stars (given there are only 5 reviews). If it gets the job done, and the reviews are good, I say why not for the noticeable price difference. Remeber that yes, you can upgrade each component for a few more bucks, but it's easy for it to add up to like $60 or more across all components.
Im buying this shit now, fuck this. I'll go crazy thinking about all this all the time and truth of the matter $425 making my credit card zero is perfectly a-okay with me.
Purchased. GTX 460, after all that headache even with the cheaper one. ugh.
I'll be sure to post benchmark stuff.
In the meantime, be sure to check out all my threads crying about where does the eletrical plug go and and which direction does the CPU fit in the slot!
I downloaded an Activated/cracked Windows 7, formatted and partitioned a USB drive, and stick it into the computer. Then I went into Bios setup and changed boot priority to Hard Drive, and of the hard drives changed it so USB 2.0 is 1, 2 is my Sata recertified HDD (which makes it show USB as 1st on boot priority)...
And I get "Bootmg is missing. Press Ctrl+Alt+Delete to restart" .
Which is lame. I may try to put Ubuntu on for now, and then switch to Windows 7 from HDD, if I can. And funny thing, ctrl+alt+dlt isnt working to restart the computer (it was earlier) but I dont think that's a big issue. I avoided a big problem with my motherboard where the Bios doesnt accept AM3 cpu's sometimes because the bios doesnt have the latest updates, but it seems mine is fine. And my HDD is recognized as 160GB sata in the bios, the gpu fans spin, my cpu specs and name are listed, my memory seems to be there, so it looks like everything works.
the problem with that guide is the Windows 7 I have is not on a CD, but a cracked torrent. I would imagine it's similar to having Windows 7 downloaded directly from their website.
The problem is that for some reason, Windows 7 USB/DVD Installer tool does not recognize the ISO, for whatever reason.
It's possible the file I downloaded is bad, but there a pages of comments on it as well as the trackers that it works.
I think the big problem is I didnt make the USB drive bootable, but I have no idea how to do that. I've read that guide and there's a key set of instructions:
Next insert your Windows7/Vista DVD into the optical drive and check the drive letter of the DVD drive. In this guide I will assume that your DVD drive letter is “D” and USB drive letter is “H” (open my computer to know about it). 6. Maximize the minimized Command Prompt in the 4th step.Type the following command now: D: CD BOOT and hit enter.Where “D” is your DVD drive letter. CD BOOT and hit enter to see the below message. 7. Type another command given below to update the USB drive with BOOTMGR compatible code. BOOTSECT.EXE /NT60 H:
That I dont know how to get around when I'm using a downloaded version, and not a CD.
Not sure why you went that route when Microsoft's Digital River has a direct download file that's basically accessible by everyone. If you're at university, its always a good option to check the computer clubs or IT department because often they give out/sell Windows 7 for like $10. I know my university's computer science club does that.
Anyway, you can try loading the iso to a virtual disk through daemon tools or a similar program and doing the exact same steps. You can check what disk it is in My Computer.
It was $64 on Digital River, and how am I going to download it to my computer if there's no OS on it anyways.
I have to install via USB. I could 'borrow' my roommates CD drive and install it real quick, but that'd be a pain in the ass. Although I'm actually going to do that now with that torrent, burning the torrent file to a DVD as opposed to USB and see if that works (and hope he stays downstairs getting drunk. I told my girlfriend to keep him distracted anyways).
I know you have to install through USB. What you do is produce a virtual drive (that is emulated through software) through a program like daemon tools and you mount the ISO image with it. It works exactly like a normal optical media drive in basically every way except for the fact its not tangible so the steps required to make the installer boot off a USB driver should still work...a lot of people don't bother with physical media so I can't see why it wouldn't work.
^ I dont get what exactly I'm getting then. If I don't have a cdkey, won't it shut down every hour until I put one in? Or can I simply load up an Activator/Loader to delete the WAT files so I dont have to put in a key?
Anyways, so I copied the USB files I've been using to a CD, took this/my roommates computer, put it side by side to mine, and hooked up the SATA cable from the optical drive and plugged it into my computer. Instead of a bootmgr issue, it said "Restart computer or load disk into tray" despite one being there.
My roommate has this CD in his optical drive (i know his windows 7 is a cracked pirate too) and I'm not sure what the file is, when you click on it through My Computer it prompts to install Windows 7 but there's no ISO image that I can find and it looks totally different than what I downloaded, and since the CD looks exactly the same as the one I used I thought maybe I switched them up. When I threw in that CD at that "Restart or load disk" prompt, it went to "Windows copying files" and then got stuck afterwards on "Starting Windows" with a few weird glitchly blobbles on the screen, where I assume the logo goes. I did a quick search on my phone and people had issues with that, all sorts of stuff from ASUS + Corsair mobo+psu combos being the problem to, a lot of things.
I just turned them both off before my roommate gets back, and now I'm here. I'll probably just load up Ubuntu, then while I actually have an OS, I'll download Windows 7 and boot from HDD.
Ugh. Not to mention maybe ubuntu will have bootmgr issues too.
If it got to the "Starting Windows" splash screen, it should be fine. It sometimes takes a year to get past it for reasons unknown...for me it took longer to get past the splash screen than it did for me to to buy groceries and make dinner.
also, the free windows versions available you're thinking about are probably windows server for students, which may not be compatible with many programs
^ if I can get an OS going maybe I can get this pirated windows going once its on the hdd. I don't know why the cd didn't work, and I don't know why that other one did sorta work.
Anyways I just tried ubuntu, and it boots, sort of. At boot it goes right into the Installer Boot Menu, where my choices are Run Ubuntu from this usb, install ubuntu on hdd, boot, options, and help. But my computer freezes right there. My keyboard won't make a selection even though bios is navigatable and displays it and the flash drive, and despite text on the bottom saying 'automatic boot in 5 seconds' its already been half an hour.
I hope my gf didn't break my computer when she got a static shock on the mobo back panel. Ugh I can't believe she did that. But it wouldn't start up if she fried it, right? And static is overblown anyways from what I read.
borrow someone's computer with windows. download 7-zip: unzip installation iso to a folder. download and run wintoflash: your usb will be turned into bootable windows installer.
Not sure what is wrong with your ubuntu. Why do you want to install ubuntu first?
^ I want to install Windows 7. But I was having trouble with that, so I tried Ubuntu.
I downloaded a torrent from piratebay of an Activated windows 7, and had issues where "bootmgr is missing press ctrl alt dlt to restart". Then, I burned that same file to a DVD and (because its impossible to take out his optical drive without dismantling his entire Dell...) took my roommates computer and unhooked his SATA cable and plugged it into my motherboard, where the optical drive was powered by his computer and my computer by... my computer, and it kept saying "Restart or insert disc" instead. Then, because I was kinda confused with which CD was which and I was exasperated, I took the CD that was already in my roommates drive and it actually started installing, but got stuck on the "Starting Windows" screen that occurs after "Loading Files" part (which actually, I've read, can take over an hour so for all I know everything was going a-okay there).
Then I tried Ubuntu, but it freezes on the Installation Boot Menu screen, which is weird, and I haven't read a single forum post or article where someone got stuck at the same place (everyone else, if there's an issue at all, gets stuck way farther in the installation process).
And, I actually tried to install Ubuntu twice. The first time was my girlfriend downloading it on the USB, and it said "bootmgr missing" so I assumed she screwed it up, even though she put Ubuntu on a wiped laptop. Ubuntu was actually very convenient to download, it came with a program that flashes and wipes and format my usb drive to fat32 and puts the program on, specifically, in flash USB format for booting. The 2nd time around though, as I said, it gets frozen at the installation menu.
I'll try what your recommending, but I'm not really sure what you're asking me to do. I'm assuming I must search my roommate's computer files for "7-zip" and then unzip the file called "installation iso" to a folder, and then use with wintoflash...
I know you have to install through USB. What you do is produce a virtual drive (that is emulated through software) through a program like daemon tools and you mount the ISO image with it. It works exactly like a normal optical media drive in basically every way except for the fact its not tangible so the steps required to make the installer boot off a USB driver should still work...a lot of people don't bother with physical media so I can't see why it wouldn't work.
actually looks the same as the files on the mystery CD my roommate has. That bastard told me he deleted the files, he never told me he booted from CD... ugh, probably just incompetence. I'm gonna try copy and pasting that to the USB drive, then try this 7zip thing.
z-zip is a program that unzips .iso files into regular folders. If you have another program that does this, then you can use that program instead. wintoflash just makes the installation files bootable from usb.
The file I was saying to unzip is the single file you downloaded.
wintoflash should be self explanatory. It has onscreen directions.
But if you already tried burning the .iso file to a DVD with an iso burning program, then I don't think wintoflash would work if the DVD didn't work in the first place.
^so that must be the 'boot mgr is missing' issue? Also, my flash drive broke, kinda funny. I think I was in the process of formatting it again to do this thing, and then my roommate got back and was like "i need the room" so I pulled it out and I think I fucked it up in my haste, although I'm pretty sure the clean was finished. I can just borrow one from the library so no biggie.
Anyways, so i guess my next steps are:
1. take that mystery file I downloaded, apply wintoflash, use with flash drive . 2. Try the CD and wait out that long install process - like I said, it might've been working. This requires a CD drive and a long time, so snagging the roommates computer may or may not be an option, but I'll see if I can borrow one from an apartment mate. 3. Ragequit.
Time for bed. I appreciate everyone's help, this has gone a little OT from Starcraft related subject matter. I'm having a hard time trying to find resources on this and I've gotten more help here then I have at tech forums. If someone knows a good place to register so I'm not blabbering here they may be helpful, but hopefully I wont need that.
I think I may quit this soon and take it to Best Buy, or a local computer professional. There's also the possibility the motherboard is broken, maybe because my GF static zapped it (i CANNOT believe she seriously did that). If its the mobo I can maybe exchange for shipping cost to newegg (oh wait I'm broke...).
I may try a USB install of ubuntu 32-bit instead of the 64 I tried. I don't know, this really sucks.
Win7 was never meant to be installed from USB-drives so it's not suprising that you run into some difficulties.
Normal mistakes with this would be putting the 1 .iso file on the USB stick or just copying files from the ISO-file onto the usb-drive. Another bad idea is putting the files on the .iso in a folder on the USB.
If you GF unknowingly touched the computer for some reason I don't see how that could suprise you so much. Sounds more like the computer shocked her than the other way around. Anyway I don't think it should break a motherboard.
Yea just tried to do a USB Ubuntu 32-bit install. It gets to the big screen saying Ubuntu with a bunch of options like install from usb, install to HDD, options, help, and is locked up. My keyboard won't work on that screen, its like its frozen.
I think the motherboard must be broken from that fucking zap. And the HDD LED doesnt come on even though in BIOS it's recognized. I think I'll try a CMOS reset with switching the jumper (which I'll probably fuck up and break it that ways if it isnt broken already).
I think its broken. i mean, what else could it be? i have no idea what the FUCK is going on.
On February 07 2011 11:24 Sablar wrote: Win7 was never meant to be installed from USB-drives so it's not suprising that you run into some difficulties.
Normal mistakes with this would be putting the 1 .iso file on the USB stick or just copying files from the ISO-file onto the usb-drive. Another bad idea is putting the files on the .iso in a folder on the USB.
If you GF unknowingly touched the computer for some reason I don't see how that could suprise you so much. Sounds more like the computer shocked her than the other way around. Anyway I don't think it should break a motherboard.
Yea I did a few things like copy and pasting the folder, as well as the contents of the folder, but that's what online guides said to do. I never did just a simple copy and paste of the single ISO file.
So this mystery CD has the same contents as that 7-zip file I downloaded from the link the guy in an above post said to download and do, didn't work, and instead got stuck at that "Installing Windows" screen after windows did the whole "loading files" twice. there's like 2 little dots, and they move like an inch, like the beginning of the windows logo animation, before freezing.
And my girlfriend touched the mobo when the power supply wasn't even ever plugged into a power supply cable, much less into a socket, so it not only didnt have power, it never had power, and it never even was plugged in, to get power to store. She shocked it with static electricity, plain and simple, on the thingy that sticks out on the mobo that has the port for an internet broadband cable, I think. That or one of the other ports, like the audio port or USB ports.
People online with the same problem reported the fix being a CMOS reset or, most commonly, a Corsair 950w power supply as the problem. Most of the issues are freezes at other places though, and/or doing an upgrade or clean install to a computer that had some other operating system on it and had worked before on another OS.
So I was literally 1 last try from dismantling everything, putting my motherboard into the packaging, going out on the street and begging for gas money (literally, im broke. theres not even pennies in my change jar or in the couch) so I could scrounge up around $5 so I could ship it back to Newegg and said it came DOA...
... and leave out the part about how my girlfriend zapped it to death with static electricity.
And I did the one thing I saw on the forums that I didn't do, the one thing that was so last on the list and was only mentioned by one, ignored poster. This was, by the way, after I did a CMOS jumper reset, which I had no clue what I was really doing but knew it could do damage if done wrong (it was simple though).
I was beginning to realize (albiet wrongly) that my computer motherboard was dead. Everytime Ubuntu booted from USB, both 32 and 64 bit, it froze on the installation screen. Keyboard wouldn't work, no animations, and the power button wouldn't work. Same thing on Windows "Starting Windows" installation screen.
So I disabled the floppy drive. I heard a lot about disabling everything unnecessary, but my keyboard is USB and i can't really go and buy a PS2 keyboard.
And Ubuntu started up right away! Keyboard worked, cute animation present. My girlfriend was happy (because she cant say she broke it, but I hear static kills the computer slowly over a month, so shes not off the hook), but I said fuck that...
And put on my pirated Windows 7. I ran into a problem because I wasn't using my pirated Windows 7, but someone's elses (remember I said it was a mystery CD that worked, when the CD I made didn't, at least, it got to the windows boot even though it froze). But, I simply took the CD I made, and started up the activator-loader in it, and wallah, I have a 'genuine' Windows now. Now I just hope whoever made that CD is as thorough as I am and didn't have a virus on it.
I'll be sure to post benchmarks soon. Right now my Windows Experience is 1, because I have no graphics drivers.
Change Boot order to the following 1. DVD drive 2. Harddrive
3. Press [F10] or "Save and Quit" 4. Press [Y] 5. Wait for restart 6. Open DVD drive 7. Insert Windows Disc 8. Wait for extraction 9. Reformat options 10. Install Windows 11. Wait ~10-20 minutes 12. Restart 13. Go back and change boot order 14. Take out the disc from DVD drive 15. Restart
that is so weird to me. Your computer is modern, and what's messing it up is not disabling a floppy drive (that no one uses anymore). I've never heard of that one before. I've fixed old computers and not having a floppy drive has never been a problem.
What I read a few (read: not most) times was people saying to disable absolutely everything, like the hard drives, and the USB ports, especially the USB, as well as the floppy. I think one person even said he disabled everything, including the floppy which he suspected was the issue.
But I don't think anyone ever said straight up "the floppy is the problem", and the most common issue was something to do with the Corsair 950w Power supply, which I don't have. Disabling the floppy was all it took though, I don't think that would've ever been figured out otherwise.
Anyways, quick question:
So I installed drivers for my mouse (friend got me a Steelseries Kinzu Optical 'cuz idra uses one' for my birthday), and GTX 460 (both nvdia gtx 460 driver and msi afterburner overclocker utility). However, due to lack of CD drive (I installed my computer by taking my roommates computer while he was watching the super bowl next door, unplugged his SATA cable and put it into my computer, and turned both on at same time) I can't install the CDs I have, and having trouble figuring out what to download for Biostar motherboard.
The web page for Biostar drivers is sort of weird, it lists a million things for a million different parts of the motherboard. Which do I download? my computer is working fine, so I don't really know why I would need these drivers (i mean i get you need a gpu driver to activate your gpu, but your motherboard doesnt really do anything but connect the components right?).
Motherboard drivers usually involve the chipset, lan, audio, usb controllers, sata controllers, and any other things that come with the motherboard such as bluetooth. You should be installing all of these if you want the best performance out of your components.
Drivers will often increase performance, fix bugs, and give you more options. However, sometimes drivers are required to be installed for the component to work (ex. USB3.0).
go to the bios and look for the option that says core unlock. Your motherboard must be able to support it. I think the box should mention it as a feature.
Drawback is that it might not be stable. The extra core is usually disabled because it did not pass quality control. You're supposed to use a program that stress test your cpu.
^ yea check out one of the liinks of my motherboard, I always had planned for the same motherboard so I've pasted the link and model everywhere where I reiterate my build, which I made sure to do every page at least.
It has ACC apparently, and in startup there is bios-unLocking (I tried it quickly and my 'phenom x4M couldn't boot so maybe unstable, maybe driver issue). My model mobo isn't mentioned on the list at overclock.net but they say it needs a 770 north chipset which I have, and biostar as a brand is mentioned a lot, so I think its fine.
My main issue is with the drivers, since I have no idea what drivers I need to put on my computer for the motherboard. As I showed in the link above, a few drivers appear to not list Windows 7 64bit, and the page for Bios (just select bios tab on that page) says something like you don't need to update if stuff works. Plus, it isn't translated that clealy.
I know these may be dumb questions but it really isn't intuitive, seeing as how my computer works now. I'm getting a lot of knowledge quickly though, I learned about stepping, revisions, and have coretemp and cpu-z.
Chipset (I think that's onboard graphics), On-Board LAN, On-Board Audio have win7 64bit drivers. Just download and install those.
You can look around for more info. about unlocking cores. I don't know much about that. I heard for some CPU you can just look at the serial number to find out if it's unlockable.
Update: I just typed in "Athlon II X2 255 unlock" at google. The first results had people saying that CPU cannot be unlocked.
^ Yea its the Stepping/Revision number, basically information about what batch it was made in and what did they do to touch up the CPU after being made. My CPU is BL-C3, which is a generally good revision (better than the C2, the only other one from what I've read).
So what about the CPU and USB, those ones I shouldn't download?
And what about the BIOS, do I download any of that?
Chipset refers to the chip that communicates with all the different components which in this case is the AMD770.
You should only update the BIOS if you are experiencing stability issues, POST issues, or need it to support newer hardware / processors.
The USB drivers are there for Windows 2000 and XP so you don't need to download them if you are using Windows 7. Older operating systems needed the drivers for the USB ports to be recognized. Same situation as it is now with Windows 7 and USB 3.0, drivers are required to be installed before the computer recognizes the USB 3.0 ports.
Everything runs great, I had some Catalyst control center come up and a great tool to configure my audio settings, definately notice a difference with the updates.
Now I'm interested in unlocking (read: not oc'ing) but that is totally different material, so I'll work on getting those results up.
Logging on to SC2 yesterday, the default settings for everything (before drivers or any oc'ing or tinkering) was Ultra on everything, with High on textures, at around 62FPS. I think there may be a CPU limiting with the FPS. There were some weird stutters and flashes on the screen, but I haven't really played much at all, just a single vs Computer game, so its not really conclusive at all.
ah before i mess with the settings or even try to i need to test stability, for my cpu/gpu/memory, which is 24 hors of trial for each one. I'll probably just do overnight, so more like 12-16 hours. That'll mean like 6 days before I try unlocking.
Few questions about what do I need to download for my computer, as you generally need a bunch of things to really get things going.
I downloaded drivers for my: Java, BIOS, motherboard components, nvidia, msi overclocker utility. I have google chrome, and then I got prime95,cpu-z, coretemp, fraps
I don't know if I need a driver for my hdd, ram, or CPU. I know I need security, and was thinking of getting Microsoft Security Essentials, but there may be issues with pirated windows compatibility? In which case Avast 5 is the answer. I'm not sure if I need a firewall or is my Windows firewall fine, or any malware/adware. I just don't download dumb things and go to sketchy sites, so I've never had any trouble.
RAM, HDD, and CPU do not require drivers. If you want to stresstest your memory, use Memtest86+. if you want to monitor the smart values of your HDD or benchmark it, use CrystalDisk or HD Tune Pro.
If you plan on overclocking your GPU with MSI Afterburner, it's probably best to download Furmark to stress test it.
If you have common sense than there's no need for anti-virus. I've never used anti-virus in my life until a year ago when Microsoft released their own >.>
You probably want Adobe Reader X (or a pdf reader of some sort), Microsoft Office 2010, Winrar/7zip, and an iso mounting program.
I think my windows came with a unzipper (unless extracting files is something different....?), and I don't have a CD/DVD drive so no need for a burning utility/iso mounting. I will be sure to download adobe though, and yea I don't have an office utility so I'll either download a pirated office or openoffice for free (I graduated college recently I'm not writing one more god damn paper!).
On a related note, I ran Prime95 torture test for 14 hours and had no errors. I don't know if i did it 'exactly' right but everything was cloggingly slow until I managed to turn it off (my computer did turn off the screen and I had to log back in but I'm certain it was running that whole time). and there were no errors reported on any cores.
What Microsoft anti-virus are you referring to? I usually don't like antivirus programs because they interfere with gaming and I'm not that dumb, but seeing as this is my first, true computer, that I built, I would like to have some measure of safety. Now if it drops the framerate of SC2 more than .1111 fps, than I may not want it, but if its free and can have a mode to be in the background/turned off, why not have an antivirus/virus scanner/firewall/malware-adware-spyware blocker, et cetera?
Thanks for all your help though, I'm currently looking up information on unlocking a 4th core and cache (read: not overclocking, although may oc the gpu) and then posting benchmarks. I wont unlock or overclock at all until I get my 2gb ram stick in to get a 4gb ram total, and have run benchmarks on my system's CPU/GPU/memory to make sure everything is stable at stock settings (ie my girlfriend didnt break anything with that damn zap and I installed everything correctly!)
I think there are minor issues with SC2. I've only played a few games, both online and against AI. It seemed when I played AI, it would stutter every 20 seconds shortly, for about 2 seconds, where I could click everywhere and that little click thing where it shows where you clicked lags there so I could place a bunch everywhere on the screen (and it didnt matter if my settings were on ultra or low), but I think this is a RAM issue and I don't think it happened during online play. Also, when playing/playing online, my screen has a really fast, quick, flash (like blacks) but the flash is barely perceivable by the eye, and happens like every 40 seconds. Its really unnoticeable, but I would like to get rid of it eventually. I think its just my RAM is low, and I havent tooled around enough yet. But it did seem my framerate was about 60 on Ultra on everything.
I haven't used the default windows unzip thing since like 1997 so ya... it's been a long time and I'm not even sure if it can extract rar files. Since you pirated Windows, I'd assume you download a lot of rar files which would need extracting =p
I was referring to Microsoft Security Essentials. If you want anti-virus, I'd recommend getting yourself a copy of nod32. Easily one of the best non-intrusive anti-virus software out there.
I don't think the stuttering is caused by the RAM. If you search stuttering and SC2, you'll get a lot of results... >.> It's been mentioned on the bnet forums more than a dozen times without acknowledgement from any blues.
As for the flashing, it may have something to do with the refresh rate of your monitor.
^ Every thread about the stuttering never has an answer. It's just a lot of people saying different types of stutter (sometimes long, sometimes short, sometimes gets worse with quality/more units sometimes not.). I think mine is caused by RAM, but I'm not certain, and it's not that bad. i haven't really been able to pinpoint exactly what it is since it varies, but the jist of it is minor stuttering that occurs either every 20 seconds or less. It seems worse at the start of the match, but again, I haven't really tested it too much. It's not unplayable.
But yea, from what I've read either it was a beta issue (ie threads are really old on it...) or a driver issue (which I imagined nvidia updated by now, again, old). I'll post a thread about it if it keeps happening once I get the extra RAM tommorow/day after.
Flashing isn't consistent, or even noticeably. I think it went away? It's really hard to notice.
I've read a bit about nod32, it seems that the 2 best security suites are either Avast 5 or Microsoft Security Essentials/MSE.
So just downloaded Avast 5. I'm not sure if MSE is compatible with pirated Windows 7, although I do suspect there are workarounds, I haven't read anything saying one is particularly better than the other by anyone who's used both (everything I read says either "MSE is the best, I used to use kapersky or AVG" or "Avast is the best, I used to use kapersky or AVG" along with various comments saying other systems are good or bad. But I haven't read a single thing about anyone who's used both, and my main priority is having one, but having one that doesn't interfere or slow down my computer. Now maybe MSE is better, but Avast seems good and I don't really care that much to figure out how to put it on a pirated windows 7 (im sure its very easy though). If someone tells me otherwise, or I read a single article saying otherwise, I'll look into it and probably switch. Otherwise, Avast seems fine and I'm not too concerned about it.
But do I need anything else? Firewalls, malware protection, anything like that? I'm not dumb to download stupid things (i read on what I download, and despite downloading pirated things every so often I actually usually prefer to stream pirated content vs download, simply because I'm too lazy and I like how quick streaming can be, despite quality loss) so I've never really had an issue with viruses or malware (that or my laptops and old computers are loaded with viruses and still run fine and I didnt noitce, ha). Anyways, I am concerned now because I want to keep this computer CLEAN.
There's still that stutter issue, but I'll probably post a thread after I get that extra 2gb RAM and address it then.
^ Windows has something where you can schedule when to defrag.
And I just went ahead and got MalwareBytes. It seems between Windows firewall, avast5 free, and malwarebytes thats more than enough.
ill get to benchmarking once that 4gb ram comes in and I fix that stutter issue, at the moment looking at between 62+fps on ultra, but stuttering issues irregardless of setting (even low) that occurs inconsistently but minorly prevent me from being thorough at the moment, and I believe the RAM is the issue.
The stutter went away! I'm not sure why I didn't put in any drivers or install anything (except maybe rainmeter which I don't use, seems too complicated atm, and security suites like malwarebyte and peerblock). I do still get that flash, but it literally happens once every 30 minutes or something, its hard to notice its so quick. Maybe it happens every 5 minutes, i don't know. I haven't thoroughly tested out SC2 yet.
I put everything on Extreme, with Lighting/Shaders/Textures/2D portrait on Ultra since I heard they are big fps drains, and constant 65+ fps with minor dips to 45 rarely that aren't noticeably except by me having the fps displayed. it runs smoother than my roommates Dell Studio 540 2.33 ghz core 2 quad w/dedicated GPU at low! It's awesome. I think the stutter may have been an internet issue. i thought it could be a RAM issue because it was horrible in vs AI, but today it wasn't there vs AI or online or anywhere, right when I was trying to test for it (ugh, hate single player mode!).
I'm going to try Extreme highest on everything and see how my FPS does, I have no reason to think it wouldn't be able to.
Also to note, i was able to unlock my 4th core and get my CPU from an Athlon II X3 450 3.2ghz 'Rana' to a Phenom X4 B50 3.2ghz. I was never able to boot when I used Advanced Clock Calibration or the bioS-unLocking tool that came with my mobo, but I read a more thorough guide on rebelshaven that said you must lower your HT Link Speed to 1.6ghz from the 2ghz I had preset, and it worked immediately!
Going to run Prime95 while I sleep to see if it's stable. Torture test right? Anyways, hope I don't have a fried CPU in 8 hours! (coretemp has auto shutdown, but I dont think itll be an issue im not oc'ing here).
Woot, prime95 showed no errors with me running a 4th core! I don't want to run it if it causes undue stress, but I'll make a thread about that in another forum (like overclock) in regards to if it causes more stress or shortens the CPU life, and maybe interest in overclocking.
Anyways, I would like to ask 1 more question so I can give back to the TL community! What programs and tests do I need to do so i can show you how my computer is working? What would you like to see me do? At the moment I'm just running ctrl+alt+f to display my FPS, and haven't run through every setting yet, but it seems when I do the default extreme with 2d portraits I run over 65 FPS. I wouldn't even mind putting up a youtube video or whatever to show off my system.
hopefully what I have done here may be a great resource to the TL community. I greatly appreciate what everyone here has done, such as skyR, myrmidon, AkariSC... thanks so much!
I expected to play on High settings, and set out to just get a system to play on medium.
I have a Sanyo DP 19640 monitor that is 19 inches wide, and is widescreen. While I could set it to 1900 something resolution, my native resolution is 1280 and I've heard that you should use your native resolution :>
That said, I don't play on a gigantic movie screen. why would anyone play at higher resolutions? you charging people to watch you play at the drive-in?
I'm planning on building a $400 (possibly cheaper :D) computer as well and i've managed to glean some useful information from these 10 pages.
some notes : it's incredibly easy to throw a little bit more money to get a bit more power. i've never settled for a computer and have always lacked the discipline to stay within a strict budget. which is why i'm 400lbs.
i'm extremely curious to see what i can do for a lot less money. i feel like games are limited more by developer budgets than anything else these days and PCs just give more headroom. I've always built cutting edge tech builds but times are tough and scaling back my tastes can really only benefit me. if my eco build fails for any reason it can always be delegated the task of being the media computer.
at any rate, thanks for the detailed updates Belial88.
some notes : it's incredibly easy to throw a little bit more money to get a bit more power. i've never settled for a computer and have always lacked the discipline to stay within a strict budget. which is why i'm 400lbs.
Yea, it can drive you crazy. Spending that extra $20 will always get you a better value and better performance up until about $700. You just have to realize what do you actually need.
heres a build I made in this thread for $239, that's actually a lot cheaper than the build I made but will be the same performance wise, save for a weaker GPU - in which you can simply swap out the GPU for whatever you want, either 4830 for budget to play High to gtx 460 for extreme at high resolutions, or the 4850 for in between. The reasoning for it all is in the thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=192181
2nd CPU + Mobo combo, if you want to spend an extra $5 this is the best place to sink it: AMD Athlon II X3 450 Rana 3.2GHz Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core Desktop Processor BIOSTAR A880G+ AM3 AMD 880G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.592419 $104
HDD Same (Caviar Blue 7200 RPM 8mb cache recertified) $19
Total: $239 System will run W7 64bit, and play SC2 at your resolution at High Settings.
You can add another 2gb HyperX RAM to be able to run Win64-bit and SC2 while having background applications, as 64bit W7 + SC2 is just enough to play perfectly smoothly, but you will have to close everything. You could also stick with the 2GB and simply just close your programs and suffer no performance loss, or use 32bit W7 instead.
Your welcome Girl, i appreciate the gratitude! TL has really helped me on this so I'd like to give back now:
here's my question and what the thread is about now so you don't have to scroll around and play catch up on 10 pages:
Anyways, I would like to ask 1 more question so I can give back to the TL community! What programs and tests do I need to do so i can show you how my computer is working? What would you like to see me do? At the moment I'm just running ctrl+alt+f to display my FPS, and haven't run through every setting yet, but it seems when I do the default extreme with 2d portraits I run over 65 FPS. I wouldn't even mind putting up a youtube video or whatever to show off my system.
Hey so I have a question. I've been looking into doing a simple auto-overclock on my GPU since it seems pretty optimized for doing so (MSI afterburner has a clean GUI that just consists of sliding core/shader clocks and memory clock, as well as voltage and fan).
I think with one of the drivers I downloaded I got the ATI Catalyst thing, control center or something. Now obviously, I have the nVidia Geforce GTX 460. Do I need this catalyst? I've heard mentions of using both, like the catalyst necessary for volting or something.
It's just a bit confusing, there's so much information out there and no guide really makes it clear ;/
Thanks. I am interested in Coolbits but everything about it is at least 3 years old, to 10, and when I went to look at editing a file it said draw 32 or qraw 64, so... whatever. anyways that's not my queston. I think I'll probably go with auto-overclock utilities for my CPU and GPU, not out of laziness, but just to set things at a safe place, and a place to begin to learn about oc'ing on a PC. there's soo much info on the subject, its clearly pretty complicated I dont think most oc'ers even understand fully what they are doing, which is not what i want to be doing.
I know there's lots of babbling so let me quote above question here:
I think with one of the drivers I downloaded I got the ATI Catalyst thing, control center or something. Now obviously, I have the nVidia Geforce GTX 460. Do I need this catalyst? I've heard mentions of using both, like the catalyst necessary for volting or something.
Anyways 2ndly, what are some nice widget-things I can get to monitor my GPU, CPU, and HDD temperatures, and maybe even performance of CPU and GPU? I am using some windows 7 widget that is like a car tachometer showing % core and % RAM, but I am also interested in temps for my GPU, CPU, and HDD. I have coretemp which is nice, when minimized it shows my CPU temp. And Speedfan, while being too complicatd for me, shows GPU temperature while minimized. Neither Speedfan nor Everest can display my HDD temp, but HDD Tune Pro, which does show me my temp, doesn't have a minimized or accessible display, and apparently will run out in 15 days (not free). I basically just want someone to display CPU/HDD/GPU temps clearly and easily, like on my status notification bar on the bottom right, but any widget would work to. CPU usage and Ram usage is nice too.
The ATI Catalyst Control Center (CCC) is for AMD cards. If you are using a Nvidia card, you should uninstall it immediately and download the latest Nvidia drivers from their website (wwww.nvidia.com).
MSI Afterburner lets you increase the voltages. You just have to enable it in the options.
If you want to use rainmeter, the system temperature monitor widget would do what you are asking for (http://dirtdawg90.deviantart.com/art/System-Temperature-Monitor-109150203). I'd suggest lurking in the Desktop Threads in the General forums if you want to get some cool stuff for your rainmeter.
^ yea I noticed the MSI afterburner had volting so i wasn't sure (you have to enable tinkering ability in options, which I couldnt see for some reason the top where the tabs are are too high for me to see so I had to ctrl-alt-tab it). I didn't install it, I just remembered it downloading the setup file, i haven't set it up yet. I'll delete it off though.
rainmeter seems like a big pain in the ass - clearly there are gains, but it's a lot to learn. Currently I'm focusing on learning about oc'ing as it seems like you can do a lot without having to overvolt, and that CPU's are much hardier on computers than phones. then there's the one or two games a day I get to play after all this research, oh woe is me!
thanks for the tips though, i found a way for msi afterburner to display a lot of the information and I just wanted to see my hdd temp real quick, at 38*, just to make sure the cables i have routed next to it in the case aren't causing issues . They are just squeezed to the side of it, by the side panel. Kinda touching it :X
EPT
iskDrive = go to dump and rip one from a computer. Although I have the CD for SC2 I can either copy the file from another computer and paste, or digital download.
Still I think you've come up with a very cheap gaming PC in the last updated setup. 
I'll pm you now
