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The re certified hdd seems a little iffy and if your bro already has a monitor you can possibly get a new hdd, and maybe a better graphics card. Or if your willing to spend $50 more you can get gts 450 $135 after rebate which would be more suited to gaming and possibly better performance in 200/200 armys
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The case you selected is micro-ATX which means your selected motherboard won't fit as it requires an ATX case. You would either need to get an ATX case or get an micro-ATX motherboard.
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@ Boblhead
Nope, starting fresh on every aspect. Don't even have a mouse and keyboard for him, but I'll be picking those up at some local place most likely. He only has $600 so that's why I had to make everything as low as possible. Also combos FTW.
@skyR
OK, I'll try to find some way to fix that...
EDIT: Fixed, but please check it. I'm not sure if I trust that Mobo...
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Woops forgot to mention if you didnt click the link it comes with a power supply in that combo :D
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@ Boblhead
It's still too much, because of tax and shipping, and all he needs is SC2 on low-medium with decent FPS.
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btw that ECS motherboard in question takes DDR2 RAM, not DDR3 RAM.
Also, that particular Thermaltake TR2 430W is pretty crap, not worth more than about $30, if that much. Despite newegg reviews (lol), the Corsair CX430 is a whole lot better, and it's $45 - $20 MIR now. $70 is also pretty high for something with the performance of a GT 430. You can get this HD 4830 with much higher performance for $60. Admittedly, it looks like a low-end model with a few issues, but you're not going to get much more GPU performance for that little money.
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Fixed the Mobo problem and upgraded CPU slightly. Not much room for anything else at this point...
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2GB of ram may be pushing it. I have 4GB of ram and when I play I use about 70% of it (on windows 7) but then again I have a fair few background programs running. I suggest that you move up to 4GB if you can afford it. I certainly wouldn't build a new computer with only 2GB but a TLer who plays with 2GB might have something else to say.
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On February 11 2011 16:11 Skeny wrote:
2GB of ram may be pushing it. I have 4GB of ram and when I play I use about 70% of it (on windows 7) but then again I have a fair few background programs running. I suggest that you move up to 4GB if you can afford it. I certainly wouldn't build a new computer with only 2GB but a TLer who plays with 2GB might have something else to say.
Definitely agree, I have only 2GB of ram and it really feels like it's not enough. Then again the rest of my computer is really bad as well and I love alt tabbing so...
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http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/build-a-pc-overclock-athlon-ii-x3,2811.html
Tomshardware System Builder Marathon! 500 dollar build!
* well its a little over 500 bucks but its a nice build for December 2010
edit
Oh i missed the monitor part D: well if u could push out a little more there's decent monitors going for < 100 on newegg if u could
Tomshardware System Builder Marathon! 400 dollar build!
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-pc-build-a-pc-overclock,2739.html
This Rig is also without a monitor but a < 100 monitor would just make it just a little over 500 :D
This build also only has 2gb of ram which is not recommended if u multitask while running a hardware intensive game. I think one person said there was a Ati Radeon 5770 for 99 after rebate or something? u could just get a 5770 rather then the card they use for this 400 dolar Gaming Rig.
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^^That's a MUCH nicer build, but it doesn't really qualify since it doesn't include a monitor...
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The HIS HD5770 1GB is still going for $99 after Rebate on Newegg. If you can get that for $99, I would do that over a $135 GTS 450 1GB for sure.
I even have a computer with 4GB of RAM, and there's a comparable difference in lag with one that has 8GB.
Edit:
Sorry, I didn't see that this was $500 including Monitor and OS. In that case, it's really a $300 system.
Kinda pushing it :-/
$40 for RAM
$63 for CPU
$50 for Mobo
$40 for PSU
$20 for Recertified HDD (not really desirable, but will do for now if you're on a tight budget)
Total: $213; Leaves you with about $87 for a Case and Graphics Card. If your budget allows rebates (some people don't even wanna mess with them), most Graphics Cards have rebates attached to them. I would suggest ditching the DVD/Burner to save some cash (I have one, and I've used it like... two times in the last year; you can install Windows using a Flash drive -- there are guides online) and getting a really cheap case to get the best Graphics Card possible.
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I even have a computer with 4GB of RAM, and there's a comparable difference in lag with one that has 8GB.
I dont understand this comment - you either have enough RAM, or you don't. With SC2 running, 2GB of RAM is just enough to run everything smoothly, provided you have nothing else going on (streaming, music player, downloads, even web browser). 4GB should be all you need unless you plan to do something like streaming your game, which since you said this is for your brother, i don't think is necessary - and besides, it should be enough to do that, just not enough if you're trying to be pro caster TL recommended streams sort of stuff.
Also, while I haven't put up official benchmarks, you can see how my system compares with slightly better equipment. With your setup you'll be able to play on High easily, and probably Ultra as the system I have plays Ultra/Extreme (highest possible basiaclly) with over 65 FPS easily.
The RAM you picked is a good choice OP, it's the same I got.
Also, you need a GPU. I would recommend you get a 4830 since you're resolution is pretty low. Also, you should go for the Biostar + Athlon II combo, as the motherboard is amazing and will do everything you need it to. Biostar has a good reputation when it comes to overclocking and tinkering.
And you should check out skyR's link to my thread about building a computer. Since you're buying a monitor in that setup too, you're price is the same if not lower than what I had to work with. Also, since it's for your brother, you can cut a little corner in something like the GPU when its a minor difference that would be unnoticeable if it was even yours. The 3 GPUs I would recommend are the 4830 for $50, 4850 for $75, or the GTX460, which are all amazing. i would go for either the 4830 for budget to play everything on Ultra on low resolutions, or the GTX 460 for Extreme on higher resolutions. Since you already picked a low resolution monitor, there is no reason to get anything better than, say, a 5670 (comparable to a 4830/50 but more expensive, but more well known so you can compare on websites as 4XXX series isn't as new).
oh nvm you do have a GPU - the GT 430 is actually a horrible, horrible GPU. It's overpriced, and while it's sold and made to appear comparable to other 400 series GeForce's like the amazing, best-value-out-there 460 or high end 470, it's actually more comparable to an integrated graphics chip. It's essentially a GPU made for web browsing, I would *strongly* recommend against this Fermi model, you can read the 1st page of my budget build pc thread to see why it's such a bad buy.
And a 430 PSU is a bit much, you only need a 380. However, if you want to err on the side of overkill, like i did, the 430 isn't much more expensive. I would recommend you get the Antec Earthwatts 430D 80+. The reasoning again, is in that thread.
Basically, I'd recommend you get the same setup i did except a 4830 GPU and the athlon II x2 combo instead of x4 combo that I did. It will play SC2 on high easily, if not ultra, on your resolution.
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On February 11 2011 15:05 skyR wrote:
The case you selected is micro-ATX which means your selected motherboard won't fit as it requires an ATX case. You would either need to get an ATX case or get an micro-ATX motherboard.
Micro-ATX fits in a ATX case. The motherboard is just a little smaller, but it will fit. I know since I have one myself. You just dont have as many extra card slots, but you should not need that. But a normal ATX motherboard have more space and extra slots. But if you dont need that, then a micro-ATX card is just as good.
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On February 11 2011 19:23 Neivler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2011 15:05 skyR wrote:
The case you selected is micro-ATX which means your selected motherboard won't fit as it requires an ATX case. You would either need to get an ATX case or get an micro-ATX motherboard. Micro-ATX fits in a ATX case. The motherboard is just a little smaller, but it will fit. I know since I have one myself. You just dont have as many extra card slots, but you should not need that. But a normal ATX motherboard have more space and extra slots. But if you dont need that, then a micro-ATX card is just as good.
He had an ATX mobo and a microATX case...
Anyway, I would scrap that case if I were you, and just buy a cheap mid tower. Micro ATX cases are like ovens. If you buy one, you need really good cooling inside, and you just don't have the budget to support that. The mobo is fine, as mentioned, microATX boards fit inside standard cases. Just pick something up with a little more room inside.
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^ Go with the NZXT Gamma ATX Mid tower like I did. It's an amazing case, now granted it's the first computer I built, but the reviews are amazing on it, and I can vouch it's not flimsy, there is a lot of space to work with, and the routing for cables is amazing (like a space between back panel and case panel to fit wire behind the mobo). The ventilation is great on it, it's great looking, and the price is right at $39 ($9 shipping with newegg, but $4 shipping from Wal-Mart, which is where I bought mine, everything else I got from newegg).
Here's a tomshardware article that does a great job explaining and comparing budget cases:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nzxt-gamma-rosewill-challenger-silverstone-precision,2723-16.html
Basically says the 2 best cases are the Rosewill Challenger or NZXT Gamma. The Rosewill edged out the Gamma in value only because it includes a 2nd fan (the rosewill only has space for 1 fan, but has a 2nd front fan included, while the NZXT Gamma has room for 2 but only comes with single back 120mm back fan. If you can scrap a 2nd fan from any computer and just slap it on, even the crapiest fan, I'd recommend the Gamma then because that was the only difference between the two). However basically I would say get either the Rosewill Challenger or NZXT Gamma based on price including shipping (newegg charges a lot for shipping cases, you should shop around like with Pricegrabber.com) , or maybe looks if you want to spend that extra $5 for whichever is more expensive.
Scratch all this, the Rosewill Challenger is actually at least $10 more as the Gamma dropped in price, meaning the Gamma is a MUCH better value. There is no choice here! The Gamma is the best and is an amazing case for very cheap, while not being a cheapo case.
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I really hope you read my posts OP, this in INVALUABLE information for you to save money and increase performance. Your selection is good, but it could be a lot better. The bottom has my TL;DR so you can see I'm not full of shit and know what I'm talking about, then you can read my whole post and see the reasoning behind it ^_^
*all prices take into account rebates and shipping costs. At this price level, shipping costs can influence decisions*
It's hard to notice the AMD processor + Motherboard combo, it's not listed in combos, you have to add the item to cart, and then on that page, you click "View All Combos" and find the mobo+AMD combo.
Your CPU + Motherboard $103 total
However, I also noticed that the 255, unlike most of the AMD processors on Newegg, does not have a combo deal with a motherboard. With that in mind, I dug around and noticed quite a few don't have that combo deal anymore, but a few do. Here's what I think your choices are:
Athlon II X2 260 3.2ghz + Motherboard. This setup is actually .1ghz faster than your 255, and it's cheaper because of the $15 discount on the motherboard. There's actually a combo with the same motherboard you chose, the Biostar 880G+. You would save $5 in total, and get an extra 100mhz faster processor. In essence, this is your bet if you want to stick with your price. I recommend this processor, over any other.
$98 for CPU with +100mhz and same mobo, $5 in savings
here's the combo page so you can see the other motherboards just in case, but the extra $10 is better spent on getting a better CPU+mobo combo than a different mobo, as the mobo you picked out is just fine for what you need. You could get a biostar A770e3 mobo, which the only difference besides being bigger for more RAM and a few other pci accessory slots, which won't matter to you anyways, is having a 770 northbridge chipset instead of 880, which I leave to others to explain, and I hope someone does.
Page with all combos:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductCombos.aspx?Item=N82E16819103873&SubCategory=343&SortField=0&PageSize=100&Page=1
Page with the A770e3 combo, as that 3rd combo is a micro that's exactly the same but essentially pricier, even made by same company and has same chipsets and quality. This combo is a bit more for a full sized ATX board with the 770 chipset that may or may not be better.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.592414
$118, 15 more than your combo, for a full sized ATX with 770 chipset
However, here are 2 other good combos, and for an SC2 computer, if you're going to spend an extra $15, it should be on the CPU as opposed to RAM, PSU, case, or GPU (usually for most games you want the extra money on the GPU, but games like SC2 use a lot of processing, essentially big strategy games use more CPU and shooters use GPUs).
Here's an interesting combo, For $1 more, you can turn you're processor into a tricore instead of dualcore. Athlon II X3 450 Rana, the processor I got (its amazing, plays SC2 perfectly at highest):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.592419
$104
And this is what I got, the A770e3 mobo combo. I was unsure of the micro ATX, I felt like I didn't have enough computer knowledge at the time to buy a motherboard like that, but now I have more knowledge and know I could've went with this combo. It's a full sized mobo (meaning more RAM space, but you don't need that since you know how much RAM you want and you can always gets larger per RAM combo if you want to change out, although with a fullsized you can simply add more since there's more slots/space for it) and more PCI slots (not the x16 so you can't add extra GPUs, same as the micros, but you do have space for say, internet cards [which you can do with USB anyways] or sound cards [biostar has amazing soundcard on mobo already, if you were doing that then lets face it you wouldnt be buying such a penny saving build, and besides its for your brother, 5.1 surround sound hi-def is good enough!]. however, it has the 770chipset instead of 880, and again, I hope someone can clear up the difference on those. I think the 770 may be better, but the 880 is newer, and I really have no clue what the difference between the two are Im speaking out my ass on that:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.592417
$124
So I would recommend you get the AMD Athlon II X3 450 3.2ghz 'Rana' combo with micro ATX. It's a dollar more than what you're buying right now, essentially for an extra core, better unlocking to quad core capability (which is really easy to do, but you shouldnt buy CPUs' based on luck), and an extra 100mhz in speed. Tri core makes a difference in SC2 performance, not as much as single to dual since SC2 is optimized for dualcore, but it would be probably equivalent to .3ghz in extra speed and I would say worth the money. If you have $20 to play around with and upgrade anything in your budget setup, this is where I would put it, as again, the CPU is the most important for SC2, not RAM and not the GPU.
However, if someone can clear up the differences between the 770 and 880 chipsets, maybe you want to spend the extra $21 on the full size ATX, but I seriously doubt it's worth that money and if you have an extra $21 it's better spent on a better processor + micro ATX (looking back on it, I should've gotten the micro ATX but ah well everything works fine).
HOWEVER (lol), I would recommend you just go get the AMD Athlon II X2 260 3.2ghz + Micro Mobo combo that I showed you, I found it for $4 cheaper than what you were set up to buy, and while the 450 is a better deal for sure (extra core and .1ghz for $1 than what you were set up for, extra $5 from the cheaper set up I found that was same as yours and for an extra core). Essentially you're paying an extra $5 for an extra processor core, BUT it is also unnecessary. You're brother will be able to play with everything AT LEAST on High settings, probably Ultra, and maybe Extreme, with the dual core setup. Spending the extra $5 for the 450 is unnecessary (if it was your computer, I would tell you you need to get it), but at the same time if you're going to spend an extra $5 anywhere, this is where you should put it.
it's up to you, value and if you're willing to put that extra $5 up for something slightly unnecessary but very awesome, or just keep that $5 and have a setup that will still rock SC2. Both the X2 and the X3 will play SC2 amazingly, and the X3 won't be a huge leap better, maybe 5-10FPS when maxing the settings, at most.
And again, i can't stress enough do NOT buy the 430, or that 430+430 combo you have.
First of all, that 430 Thermaltake is the same price as the Antec Earthwatts 430D 80+ PSU while being much, much lower in quality - actually, because of the low amperage, or power, on the 12v rails, that Thermaltake will supply the same power as the Antec Earthwatts 380D 80+ PSU which is about 10 dollars cheaper. Technically, sure, the Thermaltake provides more power in total, but that is because it provides more power on the low-voltage 'rails', or lines, meaning it's lower quality (or to be optimistic, you can run a bajillion crappy accessories which you clearly aren't getting anyways). You should be looking at the 12v rails, which is the power to your CPU, motherboard, and GPU, which are what takes the most power (the GPU specifically) and determine what you need in power supply. it's complicated to understand (if you dont already, sorry dont mean to be assuming!) but Myrmidon explains it very well, and it's explained in my PC Budget build thread.
So here I'll show you. The Thermaltake output is listed as thus:
Output +3.3V@20A, +5V@24A, +12V1@14A, +12V2@15A, -12V@0.3A, +5VSB@2A
(14+15) x 12 = 348
This means that Thermaltake is really more like a 348W CPU. Pretty shitty ;/
Now look at this Antec Earthwatts 380D PSU that's $4 cheaper:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371033&Tpk=antec earthwatts 380
+3.3V@20A, +5V@20A, +12V1@17A, +12V2@15A, -12V@0.8A, +5VSB@2.5A
(17+15) x 12 = 384
This means that the 380D Earthwatts is more like a 384W PSU (wow!). Much more powerful than you're Thermaltake. It's also rated "80+". When PSU's draw power, a lot of the power drawn from the wall is wasted. So if you have a 500 W PSU running at 70% efficiency, this means it needs to draw 500/.7=714W from the wall to supply 500W to your computer, pretty inefficient! The Thermaltake is rated 80+, meaning it is proven to be at least 80% efficient, if not more. This will save a lot of money on the electricity bill, as a less efficient PSU will consume more power even at idle compared to a more efficient PSU.
I would strongly recommend you get the 380D PSU, but if you want to spend $5 to be a bit more safe, you can go with the 430D Antec Earthwatts, the same thing but a bit more powerful as they are both earthwatts series PSUs. Seeing as you'll go with a micro atx and lower GPU and processor than I did, you really don't need to, as the 430D is overkill even for my PC but I'm just SUPER paranoid like that and know I'll one day overclock (even the 380 is safe for overclocking, i just really want to be safe with the first PC I built!).
Secondly, the 430 Fermi is a horrible, horrible GPU, which you are paying $54 for. Now, it's a little hard to figure out because there are no benchmarks of SC2 with the 48xx series, but there are plenty of general benchmarking pages, and the 4830 is about 1.6 times better for roughly the same price:
4830
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&Description=4830&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=50
benchmarking of many GPUs
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html
I would STRONGLY recommend against the 430.
Now, the problem is you set up for this combo deal which saves $15 (i always took into account rebates in my analysis). Now, technically, your setup is cheaper with this combo. But the PSU is of horrible quality, and the GPU is of horrible quality. You can essentially 'multiply' your quality by about 150% at least, in going with the Antec Earthwatts 380 + 4830 on their own. You're going to spend about $20 more because of this.
However, that's actually a lot of money. So, I found a better combo deal (yea I know I make a huge speal and only go completely against it lol).
It's a 500W power supply which has over 70% efficiency, compared to your 430W power supply with horrible 12v rails and 65% power supply. Now it's not as good as the Antec PSUs, but it has more power and is comparable to the Antec 430 in terms of power (has a bit more actually). BUT, it is much better than the Thermaltake, it has much more power, and most importantly ITS CHEAPER! Way cheaper!
... and it's combo'd with a Radeon 4670 1GB, which is a little bit better than the horrible 430.
The price and page:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.592913
$64
$9 cheaper for a higher quality and more powerful PSU, and a higher quality, purpose built for gaming rather than multimedia, GPU.
TL;DR
Buy this combo:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.592913
Better PSU and Better GPU for $9 cheaper
and this combo:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.592416
Faster CPU and same Mobo combo for $4 cheaper
And I have a 2nd option for both - first, if you going to spend extra money anywhere for the biggest increase in performance and value from what you have already set up / from the above combo, do this first:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.592419
An Extra core, .1ghz faster CPU and same mobo for $1 more
and secondly, not as important as the CPU increase:
4830 GPU and Antec 380D PSU (not a combo), for a GPU 1.6 times better than your choice and a PSU of much higher quality and power on the 12v rails (which is all that matters, lower rails are only for millions of peripherals which you dont need and arent getting anyways) at
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371033&Tpk=antec 380
PSU at $39, $6 more after rebates
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131381&cm_re=4830-_-14-131-381-_-Product
4830 for $5 more than your 430 but 1.6times better
But you lose out on the $15 combo discount as well as $5 more in total shipping of psu+gpu so $20 more expensive in total, meaning you should probably just take the above combo deals and go with the 450 CPU.
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Anyways here's what you should get:
PSU + GPU Combo
COOLER MASTER eXtreme Power Plus RS-500-PCAR-A3-US 500W ATX12V v2.3 Power Supply
SAPPHIRE 100296HDMI Radeon HD 4670 1GB 128-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.592913
$64
CPU + Mobo Combo
AMD Athlon II X2 260 Regor 3.2GHz Socket AM3 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor ADX260OCGMBOX
BIOSTAR A880G+ AM3 AMD 880G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.592416
$98
2nd CPU + Mobo combo, if you want to spend an extra $5 this is the best place to sink it:
AMD Athlon II X3 450 Rana 3.2GHz Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core Desktop Processor
BIOSTAR A880G+ AM3 AMD 880G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.592419
$104
HDD
Same (Caviar Blue 7200 RPM 8mb cache recertified)
$19
RAM
Same (Kingston HyperX)
$19
Case
NZXT Gamma
(Buy it from wal-mart.com as shipping is cheaper there, so total price is $5 cheaper than newegg)
http://www.walmart.com/ip/NZXT-Gamma-Classic-Series-ATX-Mid-Tower-Steel-Chassis-Black/15140332
$39 (shipping will be extra $4 from walmart whereas its $9 from newegg)
Total: $239
System will run W7 64bit, and play SC2 at your resolution at High Settings.
I recommend you tell your brother to buy another 2GB of RAM, the Kingston HyperX RAM, when he wants to. 2GB of RAM is perfectly enough to run W7 and SC2, but he won't be able to play music in the background or have a lot of browser pages open. I'm doing it now. Let me make it clear, it's perfectly enough! But, when your brother gets an extra $20, he should buy more RAM. Also, it may be an option for you to simply run Windows Vista 32-bit, the difference between 32 and 64 is that 64 can utilize higher amounts of RAM than 32, but it also demands more. Simply run 32 bit until you get more RAM, or simply just run 32 bit since you dont have the RAM, and if you use 32 bit, you wont need it! duh. besides, you arent going 8gb+ RAM anyways, and there's no reason to have more than 4 anyways. Also 32-bit can only utilize up to 3GB RAM max.
You can also pirate Windows 7, it's not very hard. And you save yourself $100. You also don't need a CD drive, you can install and boot Windows from a USB - which brings me to another point, I would recommend you scratch off that DVD drive, as if you bought a retail copy of SC2, you can download it for free (sc2 is free, what costs money is having an account, which you already have so bam! youre set). You can always get a DVD drive from a computer at the junkyard, a friend, or in the future if its necessary. But its not.
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EPT
