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I hear a lot of debate about them, so I want some opinions.
It isn't accidental that I didn't post them in the strategy section. If you want to explain how you use them, go ahead, but I want to know how the TL community, from nub to pro, feels about them. Do you use them as zerg? Do you fear them as T or P? Does anyone else want to give these big guys a hug?
I like brood lords, and sometimes you just gotta use them. But I like to win with ultras if it's possible, or at least use them. Why? I don't know! They're just so cute and scary. I know that if I can get up to 5 out at a time, I usually win. They're the only zerg unit that really just allows me to use brute force...which is sometimes a welcome change after a long game of dancing around the map with my opponent. Plus, I love how they attack! And the intimidation factor! But some people hate them because they're big and clumsy. >.<
Remember that this is meant to be a fun opinion thread, so if you hate them or love them, say so, but let's not turn this into an ugly argument about balance or whether or not they're really a t3 choice. How do you guys feel about ultralisks?
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Personally i feel they should be scaled back to their SCBW version.
1)Smaller size
2) Less damage
3) Less supply
4) Less HP
5)Lower cost
6)Higher speed
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I feel like ultras can be really good, but i feel like they are used in wrong situations. Mostly you see ultras when zergs traded army and saved larva for another army, consisting of mostly ultras and then they aren't that good, I mean marauder eat them alive.
But they do have their uses sometimes I would say. Oh and yeah, they can kinda be easily blocked by own lings ^^
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They're so big they're never gonna hit anything.
It's sad to see 15 ultras walk back and forth because there are a couple zerglings in the way.
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On December 13 2010 06:02 GinDo wrote:
Personally i feel they should be scaled back to their SCBW version.
1)Smaller size
2) Less damage
3) Less supply
4) Less HP
5)Lower cost
6)Higher speed
7) make their attack short ranged and voilà, you have created the roach.
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I think that ultras are never viable in a close game, you just use them to finish an already-won game. They take too long to build and they're really weak for the supply. Terran MMM destroys ultras, tanks and Thors destroy ultras, and obviously any air destroys ultras. Colossi destroy ultras, Immortals destroy ultras, Voids destroy ultras, all of which are common in the lategame. Ultras are only good if they are going mass HT and don't scout well enough to see that you're going for ultras, and even then they normally have a significant amount of speedlots, which are awesome against Ultras as well.
I'd go Broodlords in every single situation where I'd consider going ultras.
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I think they are the ugliest model in the game. I also think they should have a rider on there back.
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The thing with ultras is that you can't just 1a into someone's base with them because of their enormous size so it'll all clutter up letting your opponent's army to take free shots off of it and possibly kill the majority of them. Unless it's supported with other units ultras are really weak because most units can kite them around. They should try to make the ultras a bit smaller like they did with thors because it's a pain as a zerg trying to go through chokes. However if they are used in a wide area they would decimate a lot of MMM without tank support and stalker/colloseus heavy builds.
And creep helps a lot with ultras because they're pretty slow without it.
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i stopped using ultras alltogether. Maybe vs t in a combination of 5 more units but they are quite terrible in my book
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Tbh, it's not just the Ultralisk that ruins the feeling of Z, it's many of the units imo..... There is no scourge, which were a great way of bulking up your air force for relatively cheap costs, as well as little use of supply. Hydras were faster and only 1 supply, so you could get a shitton of them, anywhere you needed them to be. Back when Roaches were 1 supply, you could get a shitton of them as well. It really gave the Zerg a "swarm" feel. I gave Zerg a shot, and I really didn't like how fast I could hit 200 supply, yet feel like my army was fucking tiny.....
I definitely like them for 2v2 though.
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On December 13 2010 06:04 worldsnap wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 06:02 GinDo wrote:
Personally i feel they should be scaled back to their SCBW version.
1)Smaller size
2) Less damage
3) Less supply
4) Less HP
5)Lower cost
6)Higher speed 7) make their attack short ranged and voilà, you have created the roach.
And you obviously haven't played scbw in the past 10 years, or you would have an idea with the kind of unit he is taking about. That being said, i'm not sure i necessarily agree with him - the ultra might need to be tweaked here and there, but its pretty close to being what I think it needs to be.
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I've lost many a game because I built ultralisks instead of 5 roaches + some gas unit
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On December 13 2010 06:09 YaKool wrote:
The thing with ultras is that you can't just 1a into someone's base with them because of their enormous size so it'll all clutter up letting your opponent's army to take free shots off of it and possibly kill the majority of them. Unless it's supported with other units ultras are really weak because most units can kite them around. They should try to make the ultras a bit smaller like they did with thors because it's a pain as a zerg trying to go through chokes. However if they are used in a wide area they would decimate a lot of MMM without tank support and stalker/colloseus heavy builds.
And creep helps a lot with ultras because they're pretty slow without it.
Yeah. People seem to think that ultras should be used...as just an ultra army. I never try to do that! Ultras either take the damage or deal the damage, while something else (like lings) either prevents the ultras from dying so they can do enormous splash damage or deal the damage while the enemy is trying desparately to focus down the behemoths. It's like playing WoW and saying, "Are tanks good?" "No, because they don't dps, heal, AoE, etc."
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On December 13 2010 06:11 Impervious wrote:
Tbh, it's not just the Ultralisk that ruins the feeling of Z, it's many of the units imo..... There is no scourge, which were a great way of bulking up your air force for relatively cheap costs, as well as little use of supply. Hydras were faster and only 1 supply, so you could get a shitton of them, anywhere you needed them to be. Back when Roaches were 1 supply, you could get a shitton of them as well. It really gave the Zerg a "swarm" feel. I gave Zerg a shot, and I really didn't like how fast I could hit 200 supply, yet feel like my army was fucking tiny.....
I definitely like them for 2v2 though.
Totally! Ultras I like, but I agree with hydras: they should be only one supply. I remember in BW having people be like "There's SO many!" In SC2, sometimes it feels like "There's...1.3 times what the protoss has." :::protoss celebrates:::
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On December 13 2010 06:04 worldsnap wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 06:02 GinDo wrote:
Personally i feel they should be scaled back to their SCBW version.
1)Smaller size
2) Less damage
3) Less supply
4) Less HP
5)Lower cost
6)Higher speed 7) make their attack short ranged and voilà, you have created the roach.
Wow did you like not play SCBW like EVER.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Ultralisk
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I mainly play protoss and I never fear Ultralisks. I am only Platinum level as Zerg, but it feels like Ultras are very weak for their cost. I am not good enough as Terran to make an opinion on Ultras, but I feel like the 1.2 SCV repair changes may indirectly make Ultras better against Terran.
I think Ultras' main problem is that they are a late game unit and therefore Ultras are difficult to balance as it is rare for people to go into late game even, or even agree on what is 'even' in late game with different races. I think that if Ultras were available earlier in the game they could be better balanced. But as it is Ultras do not matter... they are just a different graphic to represent the size of the Zerg's economy.
I am so happy that I can burrow Ultras now though.
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On December 13 2010 06:11 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 06:04 worldsnap wrote:On December 13 2010 06:02 GinDo wrote:
Personally i feel they should be scaled back to their SCBW version.
1)Smaller size
2) Less damage
3) Less supply
4) Less HP
5)Lower cost
6)Higher speed 7) make their attack short ranged and voilà, you have created the roach. And you obviously haven't played scbw in the past 10 years, or you would have an idea with the kind of unit he is taking about. That being said, i'm not sure i necessarily agree with him - the ultra might need to be tweaked here and there, but its pretty close to being what I think it needs to be.
I think his point was that every unit in SC has to be extremely different in order to have its own personnality. It is Blizz's philosophy, that's why they removed the lurker, it overlapped too muchwith the baneling.
Now these propositions may be good in term of balance, but they may be bad in term of unit design, making two units too similar. I think both are to be considered as unit diversity is what makes Starcraft such a great game.
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Wow, I didn't know ultralisks were held with such hate. I absolutely love ultralisks in ZvT.
granted I am low diamond but
Speedling => Speedling BLing => Infestor Speedling BLing => Infestor Speedling BLing Ultra
I find to be amazingly easy and fun. + you already have all the upgrades by the time the ultras hit so you just claw through their forces =D and reinforce your army with more speedlings (cuz ultras take too long to build and wont be out to join your forces in that same push.
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On December 13 2010 06:13 sparkyk24 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 06:09 YaKool wrote:
The thing with ultras is that you can't just 1a into someone's base with them because of their enormous size so it'll all clutter up letting your opponent's army to take free shots off of it and possibly kill the majority of them. Unless it's supported with other units ultras are really weak because most units can kite them around. They should try to make the ultras a bit smaller like they did with thors because it's a pain as a zerg trying to go through chokes. However if they are used in a wide area they would decimate a lot of MMM without tank support and stalker/colloseus heavy builds.
And creep helps a lot with ultras because they're pretty slow without it. Yeah. People seem to think that ultras should be used...as just an ultra army. I never try to do that! Ultras either take the damage or deal the damage, while something else (like lings) either prevents the ultras from dying so they can do enormous splash damage or deal the damage while the enemy is trying desparately to focus down the behemoths. It's like playing WoW and saying, "Are tanks good?" "No, because they don't dps, heal, AoE, etc."
So wich unit you speak of could prevent/tank the damage to the ultra's?
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EPT
