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On December 13 2010 12:32 jcroisdale wrote:
Deadlist tech switch in the game get broodlords lose them take all that free supply and make ultras its almost impossible to stop. Because what ever your oppenent used to stop broodlords is probably useless againest ultras other then voids or capital ships.
And if you have brood lords, then you probably (and should) have left over corruptors to deal with voids and capital ships.
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It isn't as much a problem with ultras but I feel that in SC2 that hive tech is underpowered. It gives you level three upgrades, and I think that's the most valuable thing of it. I gives you two units, none of which is essential, and both have the immense weakness that they are at the mercy of air units.
Neither ultras nor brood lords are really a 'counter' to anything that you really have to make as a response to something.
That said, I like them because they're both fun, but from a strategy perspective I can see why they're only seen in really long games.
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meele,EXPENSIVE,big,easy to kill with marauder and stalker,take a lot of time to hatch (not good for 300 supply army) AI gets lagged with lings and dont do shit in battle..
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On December 13 2010 12:45 Silmakuoppaanikinko wrote:
It isn't as much a problem with ultras but I feel that in SC2 that hive tech is underpowered. It gives you level three upgrades, and I think that's the most valuable thing of it. I gives you two units, none of which is essential, and both have the immense weakness that they are at the mercy of air units.
Neither ultras nor brood lords are really a 'counter' to anything that you really have to make as a response to something.
That said, I like them because they're both fun, but from a strategy perspective I can see why they're only seen in really long games.
Totally dwta here.
The power in zerg t3 lies in the ability to tech switch quickly. Ultras are a key part of this.
Ultras -> BLs -> Ultras while pumping lings the whole time can quickly run over late game armies that find it very difficult to adapt in time.
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They suck outside ZvT. Really late game ZvZ they can be useful, but holy fuck Zerg tier 3 is so bad.
Right now, because of pathing, it's only smart to get like 3-4 ultras mixed in to your zergling baneling infestor ball of deathfuckmentalbeats. Even if you hotkey them separately and have excellent positioning, the lings are still going to flood in first and prevent optimal ultra utility. It's just a clusterfuck. The unit kind of blows, especially given the cost in tech/food/mins/gas.
Now let's talk about the brood lord. Holy shit is that an awful unit. I saw Day's daily on how Sen went broods off 4+ bases and not being pushed an inch out of his way by incontrol. Sen came out of the woodwork with a maxed army (capable of a 300 food push) of hydra/roach/broods. Thanks, day, but this is like the one circumstance wherein broods shine. Any other time and it's a rofl circus of a tier 3, 200/300 unit that moves slower than a dog trying to rid its ass of fleas. Not to mention the nerf to damage AND hp during the beta (necessary to nerf one, not both). So the epic morphing from corruptor to brood only gains 25 hit points? And who gives a shit if they spawn broodings when they attack. You're getting them ZvP, so you probably haven't upgraded melee weapons.
Cool story; i once attacked a planetary for 45 minutes with 2 broods and didn't kill it.
Peace.
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I do think that Ultralisks should be more 'massable,' even for an end-game unit. It's just what Zerg are about.
EDIT: and Blizzard could make larger maps with more open areas, which would also solve the problem.
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I want to use them but I they just are not that good. I mean unless my opponent has a lot of vikings out already, I just go broodlords late game. Better pathing would make it so much easier to use them.
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i think they are the worst unit in the game, they are countered by the units they are supposed to counter so there is really no sense in ever using them. Every single terran unit is decent against ultras besides hellions and workers.
They are way to expensive and you hardly ever can get them to attack all at the same time (1 ultra attacks and 5 are doing nothing because they are blocked). I only use ultras when i have like 6 base and my opponent is on like 2-3 base and i basically won anyway.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
I have only used Ultras once, ever, in 1v1, and that was in a game I was already destined to win. Given the tiny size of maps and the abundant chokes and objects, a massive melee unit just sucks. Colossi can cliffwalk and walk over units; Thors are ranged. Ultras get blocked by lings.
It's getting boring going Sling + Bling + Infestor + Broodlord/Corruptor (assuming really late, macro game) all the time but Ultras just aren't worth it most of the time.
Edit: I do want to try going Ultra + Hydra but that's just so easily rape-able by so many compositions.
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You can do the BL/Ultra tech switch with roaches/lings instead of ultas and probably be just as successful if not more because you'd get them out even faster.
So the argument that the strength of the unit lies in the tech switch is true, but that really isn't a unit strength, but more just a general strength of zerg to be able to switch unit tech easily. That doesn't make the unit powerful by itself it is just a feature of zerg.
Now I'm not saying that doing that tech switch isn't a nice tactic, just simply that it doesn't change the overall strength, or lack there of, of the unit.
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They used to be good.
Then there were nerfed to the point where making them was a liability, and you were better off spending the coin on more of another unit.
With a little micro they're painfully easy to counter; and if someone is coming at you with 10+ Ultras - you did something seriously wrong to a) allow it and b) not have an appropriate counter.
How often does anyone use Ultras except for when the game is at the point where they could win it by spending the same amount of cash on any other unit?
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On December 13 2010 06:18 NormandyBoy wrote:
I think his point was that every unit in SC has to be extremely different in order to have its own personnality. It is Blizz's philosophy, that's why they removed the lurker, it overlapped too muchwith the baneling.
I think allmost any zerg would prefer to have lurkers instead of the baneling;). Well I surely would.
On topic I think Ultras can really shine against toss armies with tons of stalkers and Collossi but as someone else mentioned ussually ultras are just a unit you bring in a game that you actually have allready won but you need somthing to break the opponent(mostly against Terrans with PTs or tanks).
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On December 13 2010 06:07 TributeBoxer wrote:
I think they are the ugliest model in the game. I also think they should have a rider on there back.
that would be pretty baller. :D
as a protoss player, I rarely see them, but they don't really worry me that much...as immortals RAPE them. In the mouth. Hard. Though from watching lots and lots of games, they seem pretty balanced, it's rarely a "once I get this unit, I win" sort of thing, and usually is a good strong transition in the late game.
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I was under the impression that Lings don't block Ultralisk movement, which seems a point of contention amongst many of the comments.
But anyways, they are always fun in multiplayers vs Terran Players since in many 2v2 Games involving Terrans, one of them techs to Thors to try to shut down Muta Harass, switch to Mass Thors and then you just sorta run over their thors with your mass Ultras because they never bothered with the 250mm Cannon upgrade and cut back on the Marauders.
But yeah, I get the point that Ultras are mostly just used to finish off an already dead player, though Brood Lords do play a bigger role in PvZ than say... Carriers play in any match up. That all said, I would rather an off-creep speed upgrade for Hydralisks over any buff for Ultralisks atm, and I would love to have the old Defiler back.
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On December 13 2010 12:32 jcroisdale wrote:
Deadlist tech switch in the game get broodlords lose them take all that free supply and make ultras its almost impossible to stop. Because what ever your oppenent used to stop broodlords is probably useless againest ultras other then voids or capital ships. broodlords into any other ground units is stronger.
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imo only viable against protoss
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My honest opinion on them is that they are a valuable asset against a turtled Terran player.
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as protoss, if i dont have many immortals on the fields and there are 5 or more ultras on the ground i know i'm in a lot of trouble. lately people have been opting for brood lords though so im still working out how to most effectively counter them
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The ultra should either have an ability where it autopushes all units out of its way when it walks or put ram back except make the animation look like a dog humping the shit out of buildings. The speed could increase over time to and end in the building explosion.
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Ultra's are one of those units that when you see them, you crap yourself a little and start queing Marines by the dozens!
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EPT
