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I hear a lot of debate about them, so I want some opinions.
It isn't accidental that I didn't post them in the strategy section. If you want to explain how you use them, go ahead, but I want to know how the TL community, from nub to pro, feels about them. Do you use them as zerg? Do you fear them as T or P? Does anyone else want to give these big guys a hug?
I like brood lords, and sometimes you just gotta use them. But I like to win with ultras if it's possible, or at least use them. Why? I don't know! They're just so cute and scary. I know that if I can get up to 5 out at a time, I usually win. They're the only zerg unit that really just allows me to use brute force...which is sometimes a welcome change after a long game of dancing around the map with my opponent. Plus, I love how they attack! And the intimidation factor! But some people hate them because they're big and clumsy. >.<
Remember that this is meant to be a fun opinion thread, so if you hate them or love them, say so, but let's not turn this into an ugly argument about balance or whether or not they're really a t3 choice. How do you guys feel about ultralisks?
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Personally i feel they should be scaled back to their SCBW version.
1)Smaller size
2) Less damage
3) Less supply
4) Less HP
5)Lower cost
6)Higher speed
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I feel like ultras can be really good, but i feel like they are used in wrong situations. Mostly you see ultras when zergs traded army and saved larva for another army, consisting of mostly ultras and then they aren't that good, I mean marauder eat them alive.
But they do have their uses sometimes I would say. Oh and yeah, they can kinda be easily blocked by own lings ^^
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They're so big they're never gonna hit anything.
It's sad to see 15 ultras walk back and forth because there are a couple zerglings in the way.
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On December 13 2010 06:02 GinDo wrote:
Personally i feel they should be scaled back to their SCBW version.
1)Smaller size
2) Less damage
3) Less supply
4) Less HP
5)Lower cost
6)Higher speed
7) make their attack short ranged and voilà, you have created the roach.
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I think that ultras are never viable in a close game, you just use them to finish an already-won game. They take too long to build and they're really weak for the supply. Terran MMM destroys ultras, tanks and Thors destroy ultras, and obviously any air destroys ultras. Colossi destroy ultras, Immortals destroy ultras, Voids destroy ultras, all of which are common in the lategame. Ultras are only good if they are going mass HT and don't scout well enough to see that you're going for ultras, and even then they normally have a significant amount of speedlots, which are awesome against Ultras as well.
I'd go Broodlords in every single situation where I'd consider going ultras.
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I think they are the ugliest model in the game. I also think they should have a rider on there back.
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The thing with ultras is that you can't just 1a into someone's base with them because of their enormous size so it'll all clutter up letting your opponent's army to take free shots off of it and possibly kill the majority of them. Unless it's supported with other units ultras are really weak because most units can kite them around. They should try to make the ultras a bit smaller like they did with thors because it's a pain as a zerg trying to go through chokes. However if they are used in a wide area they would decimate a lot of MMM without tank support and stalker/colloseus heavy builds.
And creep helps a lot with ultras because they're pretty slow without it.
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i stopped using ultras alltogether. Maybe vs t in a combination of 5 more units but they are quite terrible in my book
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Tbh, it's not just the Ultralisk that ruins the feeling of Z, it's many of the units imo..... There is no scourge, which were a great way of bulking up your air force for relatively cheap costs, as well as little use of supply. Hydras were faster and only 1 supply, so you could get a shitton of them, anywhere you needed them to be. Back when Roaches were 1 supply, you could get a shitton of them as well. It really gave the Zerg a "swarm" feel. I gave Zerg a shot, and I really didn't like how fast I could hit 200 supply, yet feel like my army was fucking tiny.....
I definitely like them for 2v2 though.
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On December 13 2010 06:04 worldsnap wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 06:02 GinDo wrote:
Personally i feel they should be scaled back to their SCBW version.
1)Smaller size
2) Less damage
3) Less supply
4) Less HP
5)Lower cost
6)Higher speed 7) make their attack short ranged and voilà, you have created the roach.
And you obviously haven't played scbw in the past 10 years, or you would have an idea with the kind of unit he is taking about. That being said, i'm not sure i necessarily agree with him - the ultra might need to be tweaked here and there, but its pretty close to being what I think it needs to be.
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I've lost many a game because I built ultralisks instead of 5 roaches + some gas unit
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On December 13 2010 06:09 YaKool wrote:
The thing with ultras is that you can't just 1a into someone's base with them because of their enormous size so it'll all clutter up letting your opponent's army to take free shots off of it and possibly kill the majority of them. Unless it's supported with other units ultras are really weak because most units can kite them around. They should try to make the ultras a bit smaller like they did with thors because it's a pain as a zerg trying to go through chokes. However if they are used in a wide area they would decimate a lot of MMM without tank support and stalker/colloseus heavy builds.
And creep helps a lot with ultras because they're pretty slow without it.
Yeah. People seem to think that ultras should be used...as just an ultra army. I never try to do that! Ultras either take the damage or deal the damage, while something else (like lings) either prevents the ultras from dying so they can do enormous splash damage or deal the damage while the enemy is trying desparately to focus down the behemoths. It's like playing WoW and saying, "Are tanks good?" "No, because they don't dps, heal, AoE, etc."
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On December 13 2010 06:11 Impervious wrote:
Tbh, it's not just the Ultralisk that ruins the feeling of Z, it's many of the units imo..... There is no scourge, which were a great way of bulking up your air force for relatively cheap costs, as well as little use of supply. Hydras were faster and only 1 supply, so you could get a shitton of them, anywhere you needed them to be. Back when Roaches were 1 supply, you could get a shitton of them as well. It really gave the Zerg a "swarm" feel. I gave Zerg a shot, and I really didn't like how fast I could hit 200 supply, yet feel like my army was fucking tiny.....
I definitely like them for 2v2 though.
Totally! Ultras I like, but I agree with hydras: they should be only one supply. I remember in BW having people be like "There's SO many!" In SC2, sometimes it feels like "There's...1.3 times what the protoss has." :::protoss celebrates:::
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On December 13 2010 06:04 worldsnap wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 06:02 GinDo wrote:
Personally i feel they should be scaled back to their SCBW version.
1)Smaller size
2) Less damage
3) Less supply
4) Less HP
5)Lower cost
6)Higher speed 7) make their attack short ranged and voilà, you have created the roach.
Wow did you like not play SCBW like EVER.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Ultralisk
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I mainly play protoss and I never fear Ultralisks. I am only Platinum level as Zerg, but it feels like Ultras are very weak for their cost. I am not good enough as Terran to make an opinion on Ultras, but I feel like the 1.2 SCV repair changes may indirectly make Ultras better against Terran.
I think Ultras' main problem is that they are a late game unit and therefore Ultras are difficult to balance as it is rare for people to go into late game even, or even agree on what is 'even' in late game with different races. I think that if Ultras were available earlier in the game they could be better balanced. But as it is Ultras do not matter... they are just a different graphic to represent the size of the Zerg's economy.
I am so happy that I can burrow Ultras now though.
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On December 13 2010 06:11 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 06:04 worldsnap wrote:On December 13 2010 06:02 GinDo wrote:
Personally i feel they should be scaled back to their SCBW version.
1)Smaller size
2) Less damage
3) Less supply
4) Less HP
5)Lower cost
6)Higher speed 7) make their attack short ranged and voilà, you have created the roach. And you obviously haven't played scbw in the past 10 years, or you would have an idea with the kind of unit he is taking about. That being said, i'm not sure i necessarily agree with him - the ultra might need to be tweaked here and there, but its pretty close to being what I think it needs to be.
I think his point was that every unit in SC has to be extremely different in order to have its own personnality. It is Blizz's philosophy, that's why they removed the lurker, it overlapped too muchwith the baneling.
Now these propositions may be good in term of balance, but they may be bad in term of unit design, making two units too similar. I think both are to be considered as unit diversity is what makes Starcraft such a great game.
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Wow, I didn't know ultralisks were held with such hate. I absolutely love ultralisks in ZvT.
granted I am low diamond but
Speedling => Speedling BLing => Infestor Speedling BLing => Infestor Speedling BLing Ultra
I find to be amazingly easy and fun. + you already have all the upgrades by the time the ultras hit so you just claw through their forces =D and reinforce your army with more speedlings (cuz ultras take too long to build and wont be out to join your forces in that same push.
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On December 13 2010 06:13 sparkyk24 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 06:09 YaKool wrote:
The thing with ultras is that you can't just 1a into someone's base with them because of their enormous size so it'll all clutter up letting your opponent's army to take free shots off of it and possibly kill the majority of them. Unless it's supported with other units ultras are really weak because most units can kite them around. They should try to make the ultras a bit smaller like they did with thors because it's a pain as a zerg trying to go through chokes. However if they are used in a wide area they would decimate a lot of MMM without tank support and stalker/colloseus heavy builds.
And creep helps a lot with ultras because they're pretty slow without it. Yeah. People seem to think that ultras should be used...as just an ultra army. I never try to do that! Ultras either take the damage or deal the damage, while something else (like lings) either prevents the ultras from dying so they can do enormous splash damage or deal the damage while the enemy is trying desparately to focus down the behemoths. It's like playing WoW and saying, "Are tanks good?" "No, because they don't dps, heal, AoE, etc."
So wich unit you speak of could prevent/tank the damage to the ultra's?
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Hrmm at my level that i'm not sure on how to classify (1900 diamond) I think they suck.
This scenario has happend many many times: I kill an army and then kill a lot of creep tumors, and a base or two, the the eggs next to the fallen hatchery pops out a few ultras so I stim and kill them.
About 7+ more is later attacking me and my now small force dies but did huge damage. Soon I siege up at a narrow spot to kill one more base and he charges in and dies with everything. Ultras get 1-2 kills each.
The only thing good about them is that they are cheap in larvae, of course this is useful in some situations but my point is if you do it wrong they can be very bad units
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In my opinion they need 2 of the following:
a. The ability to walk over lesser units similar to the colossus, allowing Ultras and smaller units like zerglings to attack in tandem.
b. Their splash returned to its original version and the ram restored.
c. Some kind of change to the armor to allow Ultras to actually tank like in BW, a combination of new anti-armor attacks, more powerful ranged units, and no dark swarm makes Ultras really easy to kill (and forget cost effectiveness).
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When I mech against Z I absolutely dread Ultra/Ling. Way harder to beat than Brood Lords imo if you get them going.
Against biomech they are more of a finisher unit and against pure bio they are probably useless.
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I think better pathing and over stepping lings should work very well. but something like taking reduced dmg from ranged.. or giving it (Age of Empires Chariot inspiration) Trample dmg (deals small amount of splash dmg to near by enemies by simply moving around)
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Underwhelmed with them. LOVE them, but can never find a time where I need them.
Everything they do can be done, and better/cheaper, with other units.
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Its a win more unit.
Unlike the broodlord which can actually change the game.
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On December 13 2010 06:04 Shikyo wrote:
Colossi destroy ultras
If by destroy you mean tickle you may be accurate. It takes 18 shots from a colossi to kill an unupgraded ultra.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
Despite the splash damage nerf, they are still very good at closing games out. Against Terran, I've been trying using just mass ling/baneling/queen (dimaga ftw!) with infestors until i can get the ultras out in the late game. The upgrade route comes naturally and with infestors, the ultras are that much more potent. Of course ultras are infinitely more effective if you have broodlords on the way as well.
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On December 13 2010 06:16 GinDo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 06:04 worldsnap wrote:On December 13 2010 06:02 GinDo wrote:
Personally i feel they should be scaled back to their SCBW version.
1)Smaller size
2) Less damage
3) Less supply
4) Less HP
5)Lower cost
6)Higher speed 7) make their attack short ranged and voilà, you have created the roach. Wow did you like not play SCBW like EVER. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Ultralisk
tbh i think he was referring to that the less damage, less supply, less hp, lower cost and all that would make the ultralisk basically a T3 meele version of the roach and become even more useless.
i use ultralisks a lot, prefer them over broodlords as i can ravage entire terran armies simply by saccing ultralisks to get my adrenal gland 3/3 lings in without dying from tank fire. ultralisks are good for simply this and they do it perfectly. i've won many times just cause i had ultras, they didn't do lots of damage but they let me get close enough to do a lot of damage with lings and they also keep terrans occupied with their MM to micro away from ultras since they absolutely destroy MM if they get close so therefore i can focus down tanks with mutas/lings while he's running away with his MM and then just go and surround the remainder of his army.
they are great if used right, yes they do have pathing issues but TBH if you are in diamond i'd expect you to be able to micro them properly to not get caught in lings and such stuff.
and not even mentioning how great they are vP. they rip any T1 heavy compositions and completely ignores high templar tech and even colossi which ones again allows adrenal gland lings in to rip the living hell out of the protoss
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Ultras are a great way to push the game out of an even stalemate into your favor. The game can be like on a razor edge for 20 minutes and then I finally manage to tech up to 5/3 ultras and can just shovel out some ultralisks and finally break a turtle.
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I think they are underrated, I mean I'm only at 2000 in a somewhat decent diamond league, but if I manage to get ultras out vs someone 90% of the time I win, I mean sure the majority of my army units are roaches, hydras, lings and banelings, but the ultras do very well.
Maybe it's just because I'm on a lower level.
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I rarely, if ever, use them. I generally try to win with tier 2 tech as I find the transition into tier 3 awkward and the reward lackluster, and when I do get hive tech I prefer broodlords. It seems to me that Ultras are easily kited and only win battles when I can get a really good surround or fungal growth 3/4 of my opponents army.
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Extremely underrated. It's just like before where infestors were ignored even though they were/are extremely good, or in beta where people thought tanks were really bad. We've already seen some of their potential in the broodlord->ultra tech switch in ZvT.
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i don't fear ultras too much, unless i'm losing badly.
If i see and ultra in a battle with say, roaches and lings, i just focus it down with my marines, and problem solved
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Zerg has just lost his whole army and the terran is marching towards his base and all of a sudden... 15 ULTRALISKS!
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Brood Lords are almost always better, the only reason to make Ultras is if your Broods already got countered by a bunch of Vikings.
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feel about em?
a unit that i use zvt when im way way ahead in bases/gas and the enemy either has tons of vikings cause of broodlords or is way behind in upgrades.
thats pretty much it.
really against the usual balls of death lategame P/T ultras dont do crap. broodlords do a faaar better job at soaking up dmg,busting defense players and fucking the enemy up overall.
they are just too slow and big , are mediocre at best vs the standart lategame comps of t/p and after the double nerf of 1.1 they dont even have the insane dmg potential that made em a go to unit.
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I don't think ultras really do anything that can't be done more cost-effectively with roaches and lings. On top of that, they're too easily focus fired by terran infantry and since they're a late-game unit the larva factor doesn't really matter anymore.
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Its not scary IMO, Because i know whatever unit i get i will counter it cost efficiently (Unless movecommanding right into it)
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Ultralisks are great, even if they get held up by the tiny units sometimes. There's no better feeling than getting a critical mass of them and just chomping through the other guy's base.
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On December 13 2010 07:03 NightHawk929 wrote:
i don't fear ultras too much, unless i'm losing badly.
If i see and ultra in a battle with say, roaches and lings, i just focus it down with my marines, and problem solved
With marines? Even fully upgraded marines vs fully upgraded ultras (and ultras should always have full upgrades by the time they come out if zerg is transitioning correctly) do only 3 damage per shot. Versus multiple 500hp units. And all that damage is not going to lings or roaches.
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I feel like ultras are a lot a stronger against terran and broodlords are a lot stronger against protoss.
Terrans will have a lot harder time trying to kill ultras because most of their army consists of marines and ultras eat marines. Vikings are much easier to produce in the late game for terran and they can easily kill broodlords.
For toss, having to blink toward a zerg army to kill broodlords can be really tough and it's much harder to get voidrays for a toss player at the late game since most won't even have a starport.
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whenever i get the chance to use them i do.. i absolutely love them but its so rare i get in a situation where i can use them.. games dont last long enough
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Ultras are pretty good, but they lack a role. There's never a point in game where you think, damn I could sure use some ultralisks right now. Hopefully it will change in HotS, but I doubt the ultra will ever find his place as he is now.
I do think that Ultralisks should be able to step over zerglings. It would be such a cool thing to see. It's hard enough to find surface area in SC2 as it is, with all the balling up.
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Simply put, ultralisks do not feel very ultra to me.
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On December 13 2010 07:14 Bair wrote:
Simply put, ultralisks do not feel very ultra to me.
This.
They are supposed to be this big scary unit, but they aren't. Well, they are big. But I just am not as scared of them as I should be for how big they are and how much they cost. I would love to see a more broodwar-esq Ultra again.
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I think Ultras were designed to counter Terran mech, but since not very many people go mech any more, they've kind of lost their role.
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I always used a few ultras as FF breaker and that was it. However, this thread kinda makes me want to try them as blockers for hydras. Imagine a roach hydra play that has gone for armor + range upgrades. Adding like 3-4 Ultras later on instead of roaches with mass hydras might be great under some circumstances.
This is really untested and just got into my mind because of this thread but using ultras as "your walking and hitting forcefield" might be really great combined with hydras who have goog range and SICK dps per cost (and suck w.r.t. most other aspects).
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I think ultras would be some use if they could walk over smaller units like lings , Roach ect .
Would make the unit much more versitile . As is i never use em cos there so easy to get blocked off , Also there very limited for a Tier 3 unit Ground attack only .. Just MHO...
I got banned from the Blizz Forums for saying the rude vertion of Poo LOL
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I think I remember someone in the state of the game saying that if you just make a hit squad of 10 or more marauders the ultras simply melt. I think the same is true with just a handful of voidrays.
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The only thing I keep on losing to all the time are ultras -.- I am Terran playing mech most of the time.
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On December 13 2010 06:18 j3cht wrote:Wow, I didn't know ultralisks were held with such hate. I absolutely  Love ultralisks in ZvT. granted I am low diamond but Speedling => Speedling BLing => Infestor Speedling BLing => Infestor Speedling BLing Ultra I find to be amazingly easy and fun. + you already have all the upgrades by the  Time the ultras hit so you just claw through their forces =D and reinforce your army with more speedlings (cuz ultras take too long to build and wont be out to join your forces in that same Push.
That sounds like a lot of fun =D
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Ultralisks are big, too big really. They take quite some time to build and are expensive as hell, they are fairly good units though but ultralisks block each other or other units and gets stuck there.
I'd rather see the BW ultralisk return, with more speed and a decrease in size and food cost.
Then again i still want Hydralisks to get speed so w/e.
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Bring back that super massive cleave thing, i liked that a lot.
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Once I tried going mass lings into ultras, without mutas... man that rocks. Nothing better than getting 3/3 cracklings destroy an enemy army just to finish it with 3/5 ultras.
IMO They should be able to attack from a certain range, something like 2 or so, but with all melee properties, because its stupid how those huge claws get stuck because they are behind... zerglings.
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as a unit they are bad, as a late game tech switch they are borderline op. So overall balanced.
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On December 13 2010 07:24 Google. wrote:
I always used a few ultras as FF breaker and that was it. However, this thread kinda makes me want to try them as blockers for hydras. Imagine a roach hydra play that has gone for armor + range upgrades. Adding like 3-4 Ultras later on instead of roaches with mass hydras might be great under some circumstances.
This is really untested and just got into my mind because of this thread but using ultras as "your walking and hitting forcefield" might be really great combined with hydras who have goog range and SICK dps per cost (and suck w.r.t. most other aspects).
Just as a note, this works very well, you just need to remember to put the ultras in front and not let them dancing around while your army forms an arc.
I won a ZvZ because my oponent didnt do that, but I did.
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I think people are expecting to much of the ultra. To me it feels like a very good unit for tanking the dmg, since if you aren't focusing down the ultras they will ravage you. By that time you have a lot of units in your face, having had tanks waste splash on the ultras. I don't particularly fear ultras but they can strengthen an already dangerous army, which is what I rather fear.
The problem is just for such a long tech route, you might be expecting to see the ultra do some apparent dmg rather than just act as cannon fodder for your current army. Not to mention that they aren't really massable, since then they just start to fuck each other up aswell as the rest of the zerg army.
I've seen atleast a few games where they are just used wrong. After an army trade, you most certainly do not want to be making a unit that takes 70s, rather make more smaller units that can abuse the fact terran and to lesser extend toss can't reproduce as fast as zerg.
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Their own size works against them in most of the time. If I want to end a game and I'm floating a massive ammount of resources it's an option to just hammer out 12 ultras. However unless they're attacking in an open field they just don't get a surround and end up attacking 2-3 at a time while the rest spin around.
Broodlords seem to be better to me. Against a heavy mech army with lots of Thors and Siegetanks Broods will be significantly more effective. One thing to note is that if you have been keeping up carapace upgrades and get chitinous plating you can get 6 armor ultras which causes them to laugh at marines and lings.
How would I make them better? Give them the colossus treatment where they are allowed to walk over smaller units such as lings/blings without worrying about pathing. Also perhaps reduce their size slightly.
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zerg should be maxed quicker then the opponent. let the ultra devour a unit and gain an upgrade. like zerglings increase movement speed, roaches add burrowed move and armor, hydras a long range ranged attack. i would use ultras then. you dont lose supply for the unit lost, just a more powerful ultra.
as they are now, the issue is that nearly all ground units are good against ultras. air units dont matter because i wouldnt get ultras if they have air.
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On December 13 2010 07:06 Fa1nT wrote:
Zerg has just lost his whole army and the terran is marching towards his base and all of a sudden... 15 ULTRALISKS!
if therran and zerg engange in the middle of the map and terrans army quickly musters itself it will reach the natural of zerg and then some before ultralisks pop. I learned that, the hard way xD.
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[QUOTE]On December 13 2010 06:18 NormandyBoy wrote:
[QUOTE]On December 13 2010 06:11 Comeh wrote:
[QUOTE]On December 13 2010 06:04 worldsnap wrote:
[QUOTE]On December 13 2010 06:02 GinDo wrote:
It is Blizz's philosophy, that's why they removed the lurker, it overlapped too muchwith the baneling.[/QUOTE]
Wait, what?
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On December 13 2010 06:29 Armsved wrote:
Its a win more unit.
Unlike the broodlord which can actually change the game.
I get that feeling too. A lot of times in TvZ, when I get ultras while I have a huge lead, the T moves out and I lose the battle by just a tiny bit. Then 29 minutes later when my ultras finally hatch I have 27 ultras vs 5 tanks and I end up winning
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Love seeing them in the late game as P because then, for sure I have air units so I can take them down with minimal casualties.
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They're fun to use but Broodlords do a much better job of what they do in almost every situation. They're good against Zerglings, though.
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garbage unit. those and broodlords make zerg tier 3 units totally worthless. for cost, time and supply, you are much better off spamming level 1 and 2 units.
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Ultras are great at harassing with. I like dropping ultras here and there, if it were zerglings harassing a protoss player can just warp in zealots and they are dead, but the ultra is a much more hard to break unit
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The problem with Ultras is, that most people just get way too many of them.
They suicide their armies to clear supply and then just produce 10+ Ultras. (Suddenly a bunch of banshees kill your stuff. Huh.)
And it's not like you'd benefit from their numbers really, if the opponent is even decently positioned you'll rarely have more than 5 Ultras actually attacking, and the rest dancing around at the back trying to wiggle through.
I usually only get about 3 to 5 Ultras at the same time, if at all. In ZvT that's mostly only after T has produced a ton of vikings, because I'd always go Broodlord first. (ZvP and ZvZ the Ultra seems to be really useless. And don't tell me that Ultras are good at killing Lings. Seriously. Don't even go there)
Though I said this, raping your opponents face with 20 Ultras smashing through his stuff like it's nobody's business is one of the most satisfying feelings you will get as Zerg.
It can nearly compare to storming a 200 army with HTs to see them die in a matter of seconds.
I could word it as 'cool but useless'.
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Best unit ever, if I get to ultras usually I win the game, I can finally stop trying to trap the enemies units to kill them, fungal growth and ultralisk are unstoppable :o
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For me, if I'm getting ultralisks, I've already won the game and they are basically just finishing the job.
To make ultras you need a ton of cash, to have a ton of cash you need a lot of bases and income. If you have those things as zerg, it was already gg. You need to screw up real bad to lose once you get your income/bases running as zerg.
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Ultras and broodlords are both great vs a terran mech army, but in my opinion ultras are better because its harder to get 4 baracks's with techlabs up and running than to get a couple reactor-ports considering I have reactor raxes when I mech.
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mostly stayed on t2 units when i played zerg, but when it entered late game i liked getting ultras, since they added a bit more need of control to the zerg army. (was a bit bored from only a clicking as zerg).
Used either small ultralisks groups and flanks or had my other thingies autofollowing the ultras and engaging just before they hit, sometimes dropped them out of ovis if enemy armys had no anti air. Unborrow takes 2 seconds which is a bit to much to survive it hehe. (stun buff or reduce effect would help there maybe *g*).
Liking the ptr buff they are now way better if you control em right. Most people will hate to use them though since they are a micro unit.
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I think they're a really good unit with a very specific role, but that role doesn't exist anywhere in the current state of the metagame.
terrans don't go bio very much anymore, and that's what ultras really shine against. marauders power through ultras way too cost effectively for them to be worthwhile. really there is no good zerg tier3 that is worth it's cost against bio. lings, banelings, and infestors are far more effective.
they're also good against protoss, but brood lords are better.
until someone popularizes some new mech strategy, i don't think ultras will be seen very much.
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Honestly they are so cute adorable and awesome units but id rather make 3 roaches than 1 ultra because they suck, too easily killed cost effectively for thier supply and cost + they get stuck on zerglings.
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On December 13 2010 06:04 worldsnap wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 06:02 GinDo wrote:
Personally i feel they should be scaled back to their SCBW version.
1)Smaller size
2) Less damage
3) Less supply
4) Less HP
5)Lower cost
6)Higher speed 7) make their attack short ranged and voilà, you have created the roach.
Well played for a first post :D
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walk over zerglings 
their pathing is stupid, especially on blizzard maps
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On December 13 2010 06:04 worldsnap wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 06:02 GinDo wrote:
Personally i feel they should be scaled back to their SCBW version.
1)Smaller size
2) Less damage
3) Less supply
4) Less HP
5)Lower cost
6)Higher speed 7) make their attack short ranged and voilà, you have created the roach.
their roles are intended to overlap. the ultralisk has always been a roach replacement that removes forcefields and cant be slowed.
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I think they should be used in small numbers, solely to break forcefields vs protoss. If you nullify forcefields you make your upgraded roaches so much stronger
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Fungal Growth with Ultras devastates all ground forces in ZvT. You just need to choice right place to engage as zerg with Ultra heavy army. They definitely do not need a buff.
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They should act like a colussus and walk above zerglings, probes and marines/scvs imo :d
they are so massive
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I have started to grown more and more fond of the ultra ever since it started messing around with lategame BW esque armies with 3/3 ultra/crackling infestor armies. However on certain maps they are just a really bad idea compared to the broodlord.
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I don't like ultras at all. I've never won a game where I go mass ultra late-game
They are too slow, and too easily countered.
Protoss has void rays, immortals to hard counter, zealot/stalker to soft counter
Terran has marauder/siege tank to hard counter. Almost every TvZ uses a lot of one of these two units, so it seems there's always a counter to ultras on the field before you even begin to make ultras!
Zerg doesn't really have a good counter outside of broodlords, which is also hive tech. Mass roaches with spread + focus fire is a soft counter to ultras. I think maybe only 1 or 2 of my ZvZ games in all my ladder games has seen ultras used.
I think they should get their speed upgrade back, and have it increase the speed to even more than it is now.
It seems in all matchups, when you get to hive, broodlords are more of an 'oh shit' unit than ultras are, they force your opponent to react more quickly than if you make ultras. In addition, they don't require as many upgrades, can still take advantage of melee/carapace upgrades (broodlings), and don't have as many counters as ultra do.
If the current map pool had bigger maps, with more open areas, I think we'd see a lot more ultra use.
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On December 13 2010 06:24 Krigwin wrote:
In my opinion they need 2 of the following:
a. The ability to walk over lesser units similar to the colossus, allowing Ultras and smaller units like zerglings to attack in tandem.
b. Their splash returned to its original version and the ram restored.
c. Some kind of change to the armor to allow Ultras to actually tank like in BW, a combination of new anti-armor attacks, more powerful ranged units, and no dark swarm makes Ultras really easy to kill (and forget cost effectiveness).
I like all of these suggestions.
I like the way the ultralisks accelerate too, it would be neat to see them, sorta like void rays, charge up their attack the faster they moved so that the first attack they did as top speed did some extra damage.
I like them in team games, they are a lot of fun if you can drop or nydus them.
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On December 13 2010 07:06 Fa1nT wrote:
Zerg has just lost his whole army and the terran is marching towards his base and all of a sudden... 15 ULTRALISKS!
Why are you taking a decade to get to his base after he lost his whole army?
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I think to solve this ultras should be able to stomp on smaller units.
Just by moving.
You know in L4D I, how the tank obliterates the other normal infected zombies to get to the survivors. Same for the ultra. Mash through everything else. But then it'll turn out like red alert where you can crush stuff.
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So this is a general comment which in a way pertains to the Ultra along with other units.
I always felt while playing SC and Broodwar that as you went up the tech tree, your units just did a better and better job of owning the lower tiered units. Basically, if you were just sitting in tier 1 units, while your opponent was way up the tech tree(all things equal in resources lets say) that you were pretty screwed. Just remember playing games where I'd roll over opponents w/ guardians, carriers, bcs...
I feel that just isn't the case in SC2, it seems like the game is just a ton less about getting up the tech tree, and more about just making whatever units grossly counters what your opponent is making no regard to the tier at all. I think this is part of the reason we don't see as many macro type games, there isn't this need for higher tier units like I feel there was in Sc/Bw. Now I wasn't in the SC/BW scene to much over the past few years, so maybe that has changed but while I was playing the game for example if I had Carriers and my opponent had marines he wasn't going to be in good shape.
In SC2, I can remember a few times early on finally making Ultras thinking "ok sweet I got ultras on the board..." then I go to attack and they get eaten up by a few tier 1 units? I was just like damn that sucked, why even make Ultras then better off with roaches and lings at that point.
I'm fine with certain units countering other units well, but there should be a factor of tier and cost that play more of a major role deciding I feel.
I'd like to see a significant improvement with several of the tier 3 units, specifically carriers, BCs, Ultras, and Broods. These units don't have to be used all the time, but when they do show up should strike some sort of fear into the opponent. Right now I feel like when those units show up it is often more of a joke. Like "HAHA did you see that game that dude actually made a carrier!" I hardly mess with Broodlords or Ultras just because they typically only work if they are unscouted and you surprise your opponent. To me if a tier 3 unit has to be a surprise to be effective it isn't a quality unit to begin with for tier 3 especially when it is fairly easy to scout.
I don't really have any statistical analysis behind this, it is simply just an opinion and feel I have while playing. The game seems to only progress beyond tier 2 for very specific occasions, and I'd like to see changes where those units really change the battle if you take the time to tech to them, not just be something that everyone hops on the forums and laughs about that time that one player went BCs.
tl;dr - Game should scale more, specifically the tier 3 units probably across the board. Prob except for the colosi which is the one unit that actually to me feels like an "awesome tier 3 unit." When the repair change takes place the Thor will become pretty pedestrian as well.
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ehh forget it.
Basically the Ultralisk's almost perfect. It just needs to be able to step over lings/banelings
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As they are, I think it's NEVER worthwhile to get ultras. Even when you've been banking resources and want to rebuild a wiped army you're gonna have to wait soooo much longer for an ultra army to spawn than for a more effective roach army to spawn. The few times I've tried it I've had to just sit there for an eternity watching the enemy army and praying it doesn't come for me while they're making.
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after all the nerfs it got hit with im yet to see them win in a situation where victory wasn't already guaranteed
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In higher levels, I feel ultralisks are too kite-able and it makes them much less useful. Production time is a huge factor as well considering armies fight constantly in the higher level games.
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Teching to ultralisks won't give you an edge in battle that's too close to be called because they aren't a unit that produce results. In fact, I would even go as far as saying you are throwing away your chances of winning if you plan on going ultralisks in a dead even battle. The mechanics of an ultralisk does not make it a unit that will change the tide of a battle.
Ultralisks are an answer if you want to put the nail in the coffin and end a game that you should have already won. In other words, unless you're ahead, going ultralisks is not a good choice. You need a size-able amount of them to actually be useful. They also get picked off very easily if focus-fired. Not to mention that they're big and clumsy and the on-going nerfs that blizzard is bringing to the ultralisks.
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Well since the coool Hotfix I've regreted building every Ultraslisk so far.
They just dont rip everything to shred any more since there cleave is joke today. Before the Hotfix the Ultras were really worth getting and counterd some enemy builds like the Protoss deathball or Metal Terrans, also the were worth getting in ZvZ.
But since the "hotfix" Ultras are so terribad, their bad pathing adds up with the nerfed dmg and the easy kiteabillity...
I've given up building Ultras and generally go T3 only for Broodlords or upgrades.
greatz
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On December 13 2010 05:58 sparkyk24 wrote:
I like brood lords, and sometimes you just gotta use them. But I like to win with ultras if it's possible, or at least use them. Why? I don't know! They're just so cute and scary
This is really contradictory. I personally like them a lot the problem with them, is they are so effing expensive and somewhat easy to prepare counters like mass marauder, or immortals/archons, the lasts are easy to pump from 2 robos in late game.
With the change to their splash damage tho, they might become very good endgame and be that unit that zerg needs in like ZvP 200-200.
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as a terran player, i'm glad when the zerg goes ultras actually, i dont have to worry about muta harass and in a macro game i'm confindent i can have my mmm with powerful upgrades, prolly 2-2 going into 3-3 by the time he hits and then if i get a good concave, i stim and it's gg lol
so yeah, i like them
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The only problem with Ultralisks is the horrendous AI pathing.
But thats just my opinion man.
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Or ultralisks could have some kind of small range so they can attack over a thin layer of lings. Like the Queen.
I think Ultras do great against the Stalker colossus armies that protoss throw out at times, with a fungal or two.
Ultras are fun in team games, where there are masses of space to maneuver them, like Megaton
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Ultras are rather clusmy and hard to use.
I think that they're borderline useless. I mean for taking out Planetaries no unit is better, and for fighting Mech they're quite good.
But against everything else, there's just better options. Against Bio, banelings are just too good. Against Protoss it's either Ling/Muta or Roaches/Corrupter.
Ultras don't seem to have much of a place in the game.
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The only upside of the ultralisk I can think of is the fact that it doesn't take that many larva to dump thousands of minerals into.
Basically, they aren't really good in a fight that you aren't sure you're going to win, because most likely, you won't. I've only ever used them for success in a game I was already winning. There's simple too many chokes in SC2 map pool and ultras are too big. Often times on the battlefield they are only dealing 20-40% damage because they simply can't reach their targets. The only other unit that has this problem is the Archon, but they aren't nearly as big and have a slight range on their attacks.
I really think the idea of making the ultra able to move above other units like the collussus is a really good suggestion.
Broodlords are almost always going to be better. Use corruptors to establish air dominance, and once that's done, morph them into brood lords.
Oh yeah, I guess they're alright if you are doing a tech switch, but that's the most expensive tech switch there is.
The other thing that really bugs me is that fact that all the units that the Ultralisk is supposed to be good against are also the units that counter the ultra the best (save for the air units obviously).
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Deadlist tech switch in the game get broodlords lose them take all that free supply and make ultras its almost impossible to stop. Because what ever your oppenent used to stop broodlords is probably useless againest ultras other then voids or capital ships.
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If they are going to be huge they should be able to step over roaches and lings.
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On December 13 2010 12:32 jcroisdale wrote:
Deadlist tech switch in the game get broodlords lose them take all that free supply and make ultras its almost impossible to stop. Because what ever your oppenent used to stop broodlords is probably useless againest ultras other then voids or capital ships.
And if you have brood lords, then you probably (and should) have left over corruptors to deal with voids and capital ships.
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It isn't as much a problem with ultras but I feel that in SC2 that hive tech is underpowered. It gives you level three upgrades, and I think that's the most valuable thing of it. I gives you two units, none of which is essential, and both have the immense weakness that they are at the mercy of air units.
Neither ultras nor brood lords are really a 'counter' to anything that you really have to make as a response to something.
That said, I like them because they're both fun, but from a strategy perspective I can see why they're only seen in really long games.
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meele,EXPENSIVE,big,easy to kill with marauder and stalker,take a lot of time to hatch (not good for 300 supply army) AI gets lagged with lings and dont do shit in battle..
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On December 13 2010 12:45 Silmakuoppaanikinko wrote:
It isn't as much a problem with ultras but I feel that in SC2 that hive tech is underpowered. It gives you level three upgrades, and I think that's the most valuable thing of it. I gives you two units, none of which is essential, and both have the immense weakness that they are at the mercy of air units.
Neither ultras nor brood lords are really a 'counter' to anything that you really have to make as a response to something.
That said, I like them because they're both fun, but from a strategy perspective I can see why they're only seen in really long games.
Totally dwta here.
The power in zerg t3 lies in the ability to tech switch quickly. Ultras are a key part of this.
Ultras -> BLs -> Ultras while pumping lings the whole time can quickly run over late game armies that find it very difficult to adapt in time.
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They suck outside ZvT. Really late game ZvZ they can be useful, but holy fuck Zerg tier 3 is so bad.
Right now, because of pathing, it's only smart to get like 3-4 ultras mixed in to your zergling baneling infestor ball of deathfuckmentalbeats. Even if you hotkey them separately and have excellent positioning, the lings are still going to flood in first and prevent optimal ultra utility. It's just a clusterfuck. The unit kind of blows, especially given the cost in tech/food/mins/gas.
Now let's talk about the brood lord. Holy shit is that an awful unit. I saw Day's daily on how Sen went broods off 4+ bases and not being pushed an inch out of his way by incontrol. Sen came out of the woodwork with a maxed army (capable of a 300 food push) of hydra/roach/broods. Thanks, day, but this is like the one circumstance wherein broods shine. Any other time and it's a rofl circus of a tier 3, 200/300 unit that moves slower than a dog trying to rid its ass of fleas. Not to mention the nerf to damage AND hp during the beta (necessary to nerf one, not both). So the epic morphing from corruptor to brood only gains 25 hit points? And who gives a shit if they spawn broodings when they attack. You're getting them ZvP, so you probably haven't upgraded melee weapons.
Cool story; i once attacked a planetary for 45 minutes with 2 broods and didn't kill it.
Peace.
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I do think that Ultralisks should be more 'massable,' even for an end-game unit. It's just what Zerg are about.
EDIT: and Blizzard could make larger maps with more open areas, which would also solve the problem.
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I want to use them but I they just are not that good. I mean unless my opponent has a lot of vikings out already, I just go broodlords late game. Better pathing would make it so much easier to use them.
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i think they are the worst unit in the game, they are countered by the units they are supposed to counter so there is really no sense in ever using them. Every single terran unit is decent against ultras besides hellions and workers.
They are way to expensive and you hardly ever can get them to attack all at the same time (1 ultra attacks and 5 are doing nothing because they are blocked). I only use ultras when i have like 6 base and my opponent is on like 2-3 base and i basically won anyway.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
I have only used Ultras once, ever, in 1v1, and that was in a game I was already destined to win. Given the tiny size of maps and the abundant chokes and objects, a massive melee unit just sucks. Colossi can cliffwalk and walk over units; Thors are ranged. Ultras get blocked by lings.
It's getting boring going Sling + Bling + Infestor + Broodlord/Corruptor (assuming really late, macro game) all the time but Ultras just aren't worth it most of the time.
Edit: I do want to try going Ultra + Hydra but that's just so easily rape-able by so many compositions.
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You can do the BL/Ultra tech switch with roaches/lings instead of ultas and probably be just as successful if not more because you'd get them out even faster.
So the argument that the strength of the unit lies in the tech switch is true, but that really isn't a unit strength, but more just a general strength of zerg to be able to switch unit tech easily. That doesn't make the unit powerful by itself it is just a feature of zerg.
Now I'm not saying that doing that tech switch isn't a nice tactic, just simply that it doesn't change the overall strength, or lack there of, of the unit.
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They used to be good.
Then there were nerfed to the point where making them was a liability, and you were better off spending the coin on more of another unit.
With a little micro they're painfully easy to counter; and if someone is coming at you with 10+ Ultras - you did something seriously wrong to a) allow it and b) not have an appropriate counter.
How often does anyone use Ultras except for when the game is at the point where they could win it by spending the same amount of cash on any other unit?
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On December 13 2010 06:18 NormandyBoy wrote:
I think his point was that every unit in SC has to be extremely different in order to have its own personnality. It is Blizz's philosophy, that's why they removed the lurker, it overlapped too muchwith the baneling.
I think allmost any zerg would prefer to have lurkers instead of the baneling;). Well I surely would.
On topic I think Ultras can really shine against toss armies with tons of stalkers and Collossi but as someone else mentioned ussually ultras are just a unit you bring in a game that you actually have allready won but you need somthing to break the opponent(mostly against Terrans with PTs or tanks).
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On December 13 2010 06:07 TributeBoxer wrote:
I think they are the ugliest model in the game. I also think they should have a rider on there back.
that would be pretty baller. :D
as a protoss player, I rarely see them, but they don't really worry me that much...as immortals RAPE them. In the mouth. Hard. Though from watching lots and lots of games, they seem pretty balanced, it's rarely a "once I get this unit, I win" sort of thing, and usually is a good strong transition in the late game.
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I was under the impression that Lings don't block Ultralisk movement, which seems a point of contention amongst many of the comments.
But anyways, they are always fun in multiplayers vs Terran Players since in many 2v2 Games involving Terrans, one of them techs to Thors to try to shut down Muta Harass, switch to Mass Thors and then you just sorta run over their thors with your mass Ultras because they never bothered with the 250mm Cannon upgrade and cut back on the Marauders.
But yeah, I get the point that Ultras are mostly just used to finish off an already dead player, though Brood Lords do play a bigger role in PvZ than say... Carriers play in any match up. That all said, I would rather an off-creep speed upgrade for Hydralisks over any buff for Ultralisks atm, and I would love to have the old Defiler back.
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On December 13 2010 12:32 jcroisdale wrote:
Deadlist tech switch in the game get broodlords lose them take all that free supply and make ultras its almost impossible to stop. Because what ever your oppenent used to stop broodlords is probably useless againest ultras other then voids or capital ships. broodlords into any other ground units is stronger.
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imo only viable against protoss
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My honest opinion on them is that they are a valuable asset against a turtled Terran player.
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as protoss, if i dont have many immortals on the fields and there are 5 or more ultras on the ground i know i'm in a lot of trouble. lately people have been opting for brood lords though so im still working out how to most effectively counter them
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The ultra should either have an ability where it autopushes all units out of its way when it walks or put ram back except make the animation look like a dog humping the shit out of buildings. The speed could increase over time to and end in the building explosion.
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Ultra's are one of those units that when you see them, you crap yourself a little and start queing Marines by the dozens!
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Against a protoss who has a lot of pheonixes, you really don't want to go to broodlords as a tier 3 choice, I think this is when the ultralisk can outmatch the broodlord as a viable choice.
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When I get Ultras, I like to gather up about 10 overlords and load them into the middle/back ones and drop them behind my opponent's deathball while the rest of my army engages from the front. This has worked for me because it:
a) allows your ultras to obliterate the units that you want to (colossi, tanks etc.), which are usually placed at the back
b) allows you to get a great surround
c) allows your army to move faster from overlords spewing creep
d) allows your ultras to actually attack your enemy instead of dancing around behind your frontline
Whenever I have the opportunity to tech to Ultras in a late game, I get the overlord drop upgrade as well just in case.
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1. The pathing AI really messes up the ultralisk. It spends half its time moving around and bumping into other units and buildings. Part is this is probably due to the large model size.
2. People don't seem to get the right unit composition when getting ultralisks. Most of the time, I see people just holding down the U key until they run out of gas. Then they proceed to spam zerglings which further messes up the ultralisk's pathing. A better composition in my opinion would be to include hydralisks in the mix, which can attack over the ultras and also provide much needed anti-air support.
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On December 13 2010 06:04 Shikyo wrote:
I think that ultras are never viable in a close game, you just use them to finish an already-won game. They take too long to build and they're really weak for the supply. Terran MMM destroys ultras, tanks and Thors destroy ultras, and obviously any air destroys ultras. Colossi destroy ultras, Immortals destroy ultras, Voids destroy ultras, all of which are common in the lategame. Ultras are only good if they are going mass HT and don't scout well enough to see that you're going for ultras, and even then they normally have a significant amount of speedlots, which are awesome against Ultras as well.
I'd go Broodlords in every single situation where I'd consider going ultras.
Wait... what?
FALSE. black bear.
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I kind of feel like the main use of ultralisks vs. terran is to end the game
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I just wished they galloped like in BW instead of sauntering around. Oh, and better pathing would also be great. GET TO THE FIGHT! NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO DANCE WITH EACH OTHER!
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Ultras should have an ability where they are briefly invlunerable until they get up to their target. They are simply to easy to kite/snipe from balls of ranged units to be worth investing into.
Or they can crush light units by walking on them. That'd be cool.
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The problem with their unit is their cost effectiveness and survivability.
The thor and colossus are equal to the ultra sort of, but the thing that sucks is that the ultralisk is MUCH easier to lose.
Not to mention pro players like marinekingprime can easily take advantage of ultras by using micro to disperse the units
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I feel that their intended purpose as a siege breaker is better met by broodlords. I know vikings can be an issue and there have been games where I lost 5 bl to 2 vikings but my biggest problem in zvt is breaking the terran when he is getting or has a third and ultras are bad in chokes and to all the anti armor stuff like mech and planetarys. I feel they are not cost efficient at all.!
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Kinda funny how no one here "fears" Ultras. Enemy has a bunch of Collosus/Thors out? Pretty scary. Enemy invests all his gas/time in ultras? Alright my units totally counter that! 
Jokes aside, the only army comp that doesn't rock vs ultras would be mass Templar+Zealots. Oh wait, if you hold down your "create Archon" button, you suddenly totally demolish any number of Ultras! 
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Ultralisk is the biggest fail-unit in the game, ultras are just fucking terrible. They are so immobile, so weak that they are almost fucking useless in this game.
In ZvT Marauder Marine kills them. Thors kill them. Marine Tank rapes them.
In ZvP the most standard Collosi Stalker rapes them.
I find it pretty frustrating but Ultras suck so badly. Overally Zerg lategame fucking sucks because of Ultra`s uselessness.
I hope blizz does something about it asap because right now Zerg`s late game is sooo disadvantegous.
I often get a huuuuge lead in early-mid game and still lose because of lack of options in Zerg`s lategame.
Though I think that Ultras at least look really cool.
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On December 13 2010 16:11 zJayy962 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 06:04 Shikyo wrote:
I think that ultras are never viable in a close game, you just use them to finish an already-won game. They take too long to build and they're really weak for the supply. Terran MMM destroys ultras, tanks and Thors destroy ultras, and obviously any air destroys ultras. Colossi destroy ultras, Immortals destroy ultras, Voids destroy ultras, all of which are common in the lategame. Ultras are only good if they are going mass HT and don't scout well enough to see that you're going for ultras, and even then they normally have a significant amount of speedlots, which are awesome against Ultras as well.
I'd go Broodlords in every single situation where I'd consider going ultras. Wait... what? FALSE. black bear.
No, not false. He is totally fucking right. Ultras are fucking terrible and fucking useless. God, this is so frustrating, I really hope blizz does something about it asap. Why the fuck they nerfed them in the first place ? That was the worst decision ever.
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I think they are a useless unit. That cost/supply for its petite damage and wicked slow speed is a little unnecessary. The only time I really find a use for them is after I have already gone broodlords and broken a player.
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On December 13 2010 06:35 Moragon wrote:If by destroy you mean tickle you may be accurate. It takes 18 shots from a colossi to kill an unupgraded ultra.
they kite them around like hell, even on an open field, also a ball of collussi gets significantly better than a ball of ultras
using ultras to win is the SC2 version of tea-bagging
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i really dislike the swishing sound effect they make when attacking things. i much prefer the roar of SCBW cows as they destroy everything
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i only use ultras if i have melee and armor +ultra armor upgraded. Otherwise they're practically dead even before they reach their target.
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On December 13 2010 15:12 KillerPlague wrote:
as protoss, if i dont have many immortals on the fields and there are 5 or more ultras on the ground i know i'm in a lot of trouble. lately people have been opting for brood lords though so im still working out how to most effectively counter them
Try Dark Templar next time you run into Ultralisks (I mean, you can't exactly drop a Dark Shrine as soon as you see Ultralisks, but incorporating a Dark Shrine at a reasonable time (~3 bases) is always a good idea in PvZ)
DT's rip ultralisks a new one, especially when upgraded. They only do 5 less damage a hit than Immortals when fully upgraded, and can hit light for the same.
I always try to incorporate DT's into my play when I can. Gradually replacing Zealots with Dark Templar is actually incredible. I think people don't give DT's in your army composition enough credit because they do crazy huge damage.
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Unfortunately as with many of the other Zerg units, Blizzard has nerfed them so many times they really aren't viable anymore. Way too expensive, get trapped by own units to say a couple of their major issues.
Think about it, when's the last time u've seen the pro's use em in GSL? I can't even remember and I've seen all the games. Obviously a reason for it.
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On December 13 2010 21:41 DreamSailor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 15:12 KillerPlague wrote:
as protoss, if i dont have many immortals on the fields and there are 5 or more ultras on the ground i know i'm in a lot of trouble. lately people have been opting for brood lords though so im still working out how to most effectively counter them Try Dark Templar next time you run into Ultralisks (I mean, you can't exactly drop a Dark Shrine as soon as you see Ultralisks, but incorporating a Dark Shrine at a reasonable time (~3 bases) is always a good idea in PvZ) DT's rip ultralisks a new one, especially when upgraded. They only do 5 less damage a hit than Immortals when fully upgraded, and can hit light for the same. I always try to incorporate DT's into my play when I can. Gradually replacing Zealots with Dark Templar is actually incredible. I think people don't give DT's in your army composition enough credit because they do crazy huge damage.
doesnt really matter what unit you use.
pretty much evry possible P lategame comp laughs at ultras.the usual stalker ball (or even zealot have comps) with support from any tech unit (immortal,archon,ht,collosus,void..) just stomps it.
only good thing is that they nullify forcefields.
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Ultras forces T out of marine/tank play
A few is a good buffer for broods, are great for flanking ZvP against stalker/colossi.
It's really about position and some maps they just don't work so well... map/positions play an enourmous role in SC2.
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On December 13 2010 22:57 KaiserJohan wrote:
Ultras forces T out of marine/tank play
not true. broods force T out of rine/tank play. ultras just make them add a few rauders.
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From personal experience I've only found them useful as a tech switch from brood lords after there are a lot of vikings on the field from terran, and even then only if I have a crazy eco lead (broods and ultras = $$$).
They are completely useless versus toss unless you completely catch them by surprise (immortals or even archons to a lesser extent destroy them).
As for zvz I think most will agree they get stomped by roach hydra balls fairly easily.
So a very very narrow window of use, at least for me.
I'd love for some suggestions on how to make them more useful.
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Before the Roach buff, Ultras were fairly useful. But right now, I think you can solve any problem you would with Ultras by building more Roaches.
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I honestly think ultras just need to be cheaper. They're not worth it at all for their cost.
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United States12607 Posts
This thread has made it to 8 pages only through a miracle of moderator oversight. I'm going to close it before it gets to 16.
There's almost no useful discussion happening in here; what we have is a series of posts complaining about Ultras. That's not helpful to anyone. Also the OP is a disaster, meaning this should have been closed on page 1.
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EPT
