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ok First of all let me state that I know I am not terran but indeed protoss.
I am Jemag a protoss currently at 1946 in the US diamond ladder.
However, this is a strategy I created for terran against protoss based upon someone I faced at high level.
This strategy is really strong when played well and really solid/stable.
Basically it is a marine ghosts opener into thors.
Sounds weird? It's amazing
I will basically go over the game plan then the advantages of this strategy and finally I'll link a replay.
In the 2nd post I will give the detailed build order.
The game plan :
The opener is fairly straightforward and can be adjusted upon what the protoss is doing.
You wanna go 1 rax with a tech lab + another rax to pump marines and ghosts. (get stim and shields quickly)
From there 2 things might happen
1-If the Protoss player is fast expanding, just delay your factory and expand as quickly as you can
2-If the protoss is staying on one base and is planning to go for a fast colossus build, just start getting ur factory for thor production while throwing an expansion relatively soon. Basically you should have thors on the map when he has Colossus on the map.
Once you have thors you need to play macro heavy from there on. With the 2nd expansion you should get another factory to pump thors as well as 1-2 other rax. This should give you a decent thor number pretty early and make you able to grab your 3rd Expansion really fast.
Basically once you have your 2nd expo running, you wanna get ur 3rd in like 2-4min after and Fourth expansion another 3-5 min after.
When your economy is running, you have to focus mainly on thors marines and ghosts. If he goes for a high colossus count just add a few vikings in the mix. If he goes for low colossus count n mostly immortals, add a few medivacs in the mix.
Underlying Principles and advantages
-This is a macro heavy build, once you get thors you want to expand a lot.
-THIS IS NOT A BUILD FOR PEOPLE WITH A BAD MACRO.
-If you are under trouble while defending, bringing scvs to repair ur thors will help considerably.
- This is a really hard strategy to counter for a protoss:
-Basically emp really helps a ton against immortals and his stalkers
-250 MM cannon can %*@! Colossus
-Marine and viking procure good support and dps
-When doing this build you must focus HIGHLY on attack upgrades (infantry and mecanical) as the build focus on really high damage output
The replay
I am the not one applying the strategy in this replay since I am protoss.
Plz note that the players in this replays were only 1400 diamond and the Terran only used the strategy for the 4-5th time so it is not still perfectly smooth, but you guys can still see how it goes.
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&&id=161264
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&&id=161337
Royal vs NYD (2365 Diamond toss):
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&&id=161443
Royal vs Bigbadbeaver (2k+ toss)
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&&id=161451
Replay with "early" pressure
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&&id=161951
Royal scouts badly (im disapointed in you royal lol)
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&&id=161952
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From the terran in the replay : (RoyalTiger)
I'm the Terran in question (the one that didn't do it smoothly enough). Since jemag forgot to put in the BO, I'll do it for him.
- Standard supply, barracks and gas time with orbital command (15 SCV's + 1 marine)
- Make a 2nd marine and start on a 2nd supply depot.
- Start tech lab after 4 marines are out on the field, the reason for this is that you won't be making any marauders and you would need marines to fend off any stalkers push.
- Start on a 2nd barrack once the 2nd supply depot is finished.
- Upgrade stim right when the tech lab is finished and continue making marines.
- Get a 3rd supply depot near the gas (this SCV will start on 2nd gas right when he's done making the 3rd supply depot).
- Scout to see if he is fast expanding or not. THIS IS IMPORTANT.
- Once the 2nd barrack is finished, add a reactor to it and start making an engineering bay.
- Get a ghost academy when you have money.
- Upgrade attack +1
- Get ONE ghost and continue making marines. (Of course you will add more in later but at this stage of the game one ghost is more than you ever need to fend off any rushes.
---- Here is where the build change. ----
A) Protoss is fast expanding.
- Get a CC before you start on factory.
B) Protoss is one basing.
- Get a factory before start a CC.
-Get armory right when factory is done and start making thors and get +1 from the armory.
-Upgrade shield for marines.
-Once you are on two bases (get gas pretty early when you have the expansion, you'll need it) Get a 2nd factory.
- Get 1 more barrack.
- Get one starport.
From there on, you should focus on expanding and getting more production facilities up. If you have excess gas, build more factories for thors. Any excess minerals goes to more CC and barracks.
---- How to engage opponent and tips ----
- If the opponent is fast expanding, poke in with your 1 ghost and marines. DO NOT commit to this attack. Test to see if you can EMP his sentries, if you get one off before the sentries put up guardian shield (or any useful FF's) then engage, if not, back away and save your forces. IF you are engaging, DO NOT over commit, back off right when you feel like you cannot win the battle.
- Macro is key for this build, but scouting is also very important, since you have a lot of marines, you can always do an 8 marines drops around the opponent's base to keep him busy while having thors at home to defend. The investment of 8 marines drop at 3 different locations is not bad at all since you have so much marines and you are focusing on thors.
- During the big battle, have thors in front doing the damage, DO NOT use 250mm unless the colossi are VERY close by. Most of the time it is best to let the thors A-move. Have marines station behind the thors and kill off any zealots coming, Thors should be upfront taking care of every range units Protoss throw at us.
- Make sure you have 3-5 ghosts in your army.
- Storms can wreak marines and leave the thors vulnerable, so keep up with micro.
- Bring SCV's with thors when you attack, 6-8 is a good amount.
- Upgrade attacks whenever you can!
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Feel free to ask any question/comment ^^
Sry for the 2 humonguous posts :O
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I've been trying to incorporate Thors ever since the patch came out. I never thought to drop marauders entirely and just go complete marine/ghost. I like this concept. It might require a bit more micro on my part.
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Could you please post some replays? I have been losing TvP using 2 rax FE. Your help is much appreciated.
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Great build! But its a bit too offensive based for my playstyle and personal preference. But it will be a refreshing change from my defensive builds ~XD~ Ghosts are so good against Protoss.
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Oh sorry for double posting, I forgot to ask: This build relies heavily on whether the enemy protoss is FE or not. What if he hides his FE? (Grabbing 2nd base far from his natural?) You'll need to scout the entire map before you can be sure to go CC first or factory first.. Is there a better way to know quickly whether he is going FE or not? Like watching his unit composition?
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Oh sorry for double posting, I forgot to ask: This build relies heavily on whether the enemy protoss is FE or not. What if he hides his FE? (Grabbing 2nd base far from his natural?) You'll need to scout the entire map before you can be sure to go CC first or factory first.. Is there a better way to know quickly whether he is going FE or not? Like watching his unit composition?
Well one good indicator of a protoss FE is if he is staying on 1 gas instead of 2. This will indicate most of the time either a FE or an all-in 4 gate. Other than that I really think having control of Xel naga towers n good scouting should give u the necessary intel in order to react accordingly.
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Could you please post some replays? I have been losing TvP using 2 rax FE. Your help is much appreciated.
There is one replay in the first post but I will try to get more replays up. It's a little harder for me to give a lot of replays right away since I'm not the one doing the strategy but rather my terran friend.
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Ahh, the so called 'stale match-up' might be evolving. Good work kid ^^
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i feel like a robo-centric build would demolish this. colossus destroy marine/ghost and immoral WRECKS thors. also your 250mm portion is somewhat invalid vs good players, because they wont sit there in the AOE and take the full brunt of the damage. I can personally say that i've never lost to thor users as a protoss player... i actually prefer Terran to use them because of how ineffective they are
im not trying to bash on the OP, merely stating that theoretic descriptions (250mm example) aren't always applicable in actual-game scenarios
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On October 29 2010 10:40 RyanRushia wrote:
i feel like a robo-centric build would demolish this. colossus destroy marine/ghost and immoral WRECKS thors. also your 250mm portion is somewhat invalid vs good players, because they wont sit there in the AOE and take the full brunt of the damage. I can personally say that i've never lost to thor users as a protoss player... i actually prefer Terran to use them because of how ineffective they are
im not trying to bash on the OP, merely stating that theoretic descriptions (250mm example) aren't always applicable in actual-game scenarios
Yeah with a robo facility or two he can pop enough immortals to crush your thors pretty quickly, yes your marines can tear apart immortals if concentrated on but his gateway mix would prevent that. I love your opening, but I don't think thors are the best next step, I believe more in tanks/medivacs/vikings.
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i feel like a robo-centric build would demolish this. colossus destroy marine/ghost and immoral WRECKS thors. also your 250mm portion is somewhat invalid vs good players, because they wont sit there in the AOE and take the full brunt of the damage. I can personally say that i've never lost to thor users as a protoss player... i actually prefer Terran to use them because of how ineffective they are
im not trying to bash on the OP, merely stating that theoretic descriptions (250mm example) aren't always applicable in actual-game scenarios
I know it totally sound weird and non intuitive lol. The truth tho is that emp-ed immortals are really not that effective.
Also a single 250 mm cannon will kill a colossus and will stun him. So you can't "run away from it" no matter how pro you are.
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On October 29 2010 10:40 RyanRushia wrote:
i feel like a robo-centric build would demolish this. colossus destroy marine/ghost and immoral WRECKS thors. also your 250mm portion is somewhat invalid vs good players, because they wont sit there in the AOE and take the full brunt of the damage. I can personally say that i've never lost to thor users as a protoss player... i actually prefer Terran to use them because of how ineffective they are
im not trying to bash on the OP, merely stating that theoretic descriptions (250mm example) aren't always applicable in actual-game scenarios
You could just as easily say marine/ghost wreck immortals and thors wreck colossus.
250mm stuns targets, how would they move out of its area of effect?
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Definitly gonna try this out in plat. 
Seems a little bit scary early game but endgame I think it's very strong.
You'll have enough emp's to remove immortal's shields so I don't think it's an issue with Thors.
Also requesting more replays!
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On October 29 2010 10:48 Yotta wrote:
250mm stuns targets, how would they move out of its area of effect?
250mm cannons have a range of 7, colossi have a range of 9, if he's got zealots you'll never get in range to fire the cannons.
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250mm cannons have a range of 7, colossi have a range of 9, if he's got zealots you'll never get in range to fire the cannons.
Yeah 250 mm cannon is actually done like in the middle-end of a big battle. It really doesn't need to be cast at the start of it and would even be dangerous to do so.
You basically want to spread emps all over his army and focusing any immortal that come too close. Once his ball of unit reach a small decent size and most zealots have melted, now is the time to start using 250 mm cannon. It might seem awkward in the first few battles but it is really effective.
It really feels counter intuitive for a lot of terran, but with the high dps of your army (dont forget the focus on attack upgrades :O) I really think people might be shocked at the battles that will happen. I can honestly say I already seen 4-5 fights where I was sure the toss would totally kill the terran army with this strategy and where the terran easily took it. Also you can always reinforce your army by bringing a couple svcs on auto repair with it.
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Not for nothing but if 250mm has range 7 and immortal has range 5 then couldn't you target the immortals with it? It ignores hardened shields and kills them in one cast of the spell, leaving the rest of your army to deal with the rest of his. Though I think the thors are better off focusing the collosi, which they can hit from range 10 if needed with their air attack.
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On October 29 2010 11:20 Xequecal wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2010 10:48 Yotta wrote:
250mm stuns targets, how would they move out of its area of effect? 250mm cannons have a range of 7, colossi have a range of 9, if he's got zealots you'll never get in range to fire the cannons. If he gets zealots you can attack them with your marines and ghosts from outside colossus range.
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Not for nothing but if 250mm has range 7 and immortal has range 5 then couldn't you target the immortals with it? It ignores hardened shields and kills them in one cast of the spell, leaving the rest of your army to deal with the rest of his.
Hmm I might need to do more tests on that, but I do think that it might not be worth using 250 mm cannon on immortals. Basically, immortals with no shield (emp) will already die really quick, I think using 250 mm cannon would be overkill on those, especially because the 250 mm cannon take a little time to set up.
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EPT
