How does this deal with counterattacks? Sure, it's really hard to kill your main army, but can't Protoss just send a Prism to the back of your base and start warping in every time you move out? Is it possible to win this if it gets to too many bases?

sablja

17 Posts

October 31 2010 07:27 GMT

#122

fantastic strategy, thx dude

Setev

Malaysia390 Posts

October 31 2010 07:35 GMT

#123

Not if you have medivac picking up Thros and rush your army back to base. But its your choice to either base trade (Terran can fly production buildings away) so if you push into the P's base and destroy it, you have a greater chance to come out ahead.

I haven't watch the most recent replays yet, but I've tried it a few more times with my friend, and my wins seem to become easier every time I use this. Won 7 out of 11 games today against zealot sentry stalker collosi. The key is to space your Thors in front of your MM ball, so that your marines can also move slightly forward between the Thors, but not all the way beside the Thors.

Against any army mix with HTs, drop Thors on P army with medivacs. They HATE that. But I only won 1 game out of 1 against zealot sentry HT colossi with that the day before.

Setev

Malaysia390 Posts

October 31 2010 07:39 GMT

#124

Hey Jemag and RT, continue saving replays for us as I need more pro replays proving this build. My games so far are against my friend who is only equal to me in skill, which is not much...

Moja

United States313 Posts

October 31 2010 10:26 GMT

#125

Why Thors instead of stargate tech? BCs would be the starport counterpart to Thors I guess, but banshees are sick too.

RoyaL-TigeR

59 Posts

October 31 2010 10:33 GMT

#126

I've been testing a lot of games lately but I need more variety of protoss players to test this build on so I can get a better feel for it. I just sent jemag a few replays so he can add them up on the thread. Once again, if you guys want to help us out or anything, just add me or jemag and we can get some games going on bnet.

RoyaLTigeR.723

RoyaL-TigeR

59 Posts

October 31 2010 10:34 GMT

#127

What are you talking about Moja..? This is TvP... O.O

noD

2230 Posts

October 31 2010 10:43 GMT

#128

I really wanna try it but what if he just goest chargelots ?

RoyaL-TigeR

59 Posts

October 31 2010 10:53 GMT

#129

I really wanna try it but what if he just goest chargelots ?

Chargelots should be the least of your problem noD. We can test it if you want, but chargelots get annihilate by thors and marines easily.

Moja

United States313 Posts

October 31 2010 10:56 GMT

#130

On October 31 2010 19:34 RoyaL-TigeR wrote:
What are you talking about Moja..? This is TvP... O.O

That's my point? Thors just feel bad in the matchup... Protoss actually has relatively poor anti-air, so if you wanted to mass a unit for a death-ball-push it seems BCs would be a better option than Thors. They have higher hp, can only be hit by AA, and have yamato (which is 10x better than 250mm cannon). Since this build relies on massing T3, BCs seem like a stronger option. And since they're air units you'll never have pathing problems like you can get with thors.

Banshees are quite good as well, but they center on a very harass oriented playstyle as opposed to macro heavy. They do great until toss gets storm up, and even then they fare decently until he gets pheonixes. They have great mobility, do surprisingly well against stalkers, and force extra gas to be spent on observers because of the threat of cloak. The 3-1-2 build and iEchoics hellion drop build make use of them in the midgame to great effect.

I think my main issue with this build would actually be the lack of mobility though... Asking for a quick 3rd and 4th expansion when you have a very immobile unit composition to defend them seems unrealistic.

RoyaL-TigeR

59 Posts

October 31 2010 11:07 GMT

#131

Oh sorry, I didn't know what you mean.

Well, I ask nothing but for you to watch the replays and try this build out yourself several times before judging it or see me perform it on some protoss.

Regarding the immobile part, marines are very mobile, With harassment and stuff, marines can handle that easily. With a big frontal push, that's when you move your whole entire army. But that's where your scouting comes in. I mean... if he's attacking with his whole army at one spot of your base and your army is not even there in the first place... wouldn't you already be at the disadvantage?

Just give it a try first. ^^

Varth

United States426 Posts

October 31 2010 11:19 GMT

#132

What do you do against early 1 zealot, 3+ stalker harass, since you have no marauders the stalkers should clean up with good micro saving the low shield stalkers so they lose no actual hp. Beyond that small window I dont see many problems for the terran from a protoss perspective. The protoss attack would prolly hit right before you first ghost or right after depending on spawn positions

RoyaL-TigeR

59 Posts

October 31 2010 11:22 GMT

#133

Watch the two later replays (and the ones after that when jemag uploads them). It should solve the 1 zealot + 3 stalkers problem. Unless my timing is off, feel free to correct that some how. The opener is not 100% stabled yet. I'm still tweaking it as I encounter more stuff.

noD

2230 Posts

October 31 2010 11:41 GMT

#134

Just watched the royal tiger replay, hmmmm I just discovered that thors are bad against chargelots but mass thor ownz them. Thank you so much I will try this as soon as I can ....

RoyaL-TigeR

59 Posts

October 31 2010 11:44 GMT

#135

Just watched the royal tiger replay, hmmmm I just discovered that thors are bad against chargelots but mass thor ownz them. Thank you so much I will try this as soon as I can ....

Yeah! Test this build out more! The more people testing the faster we'll find out how viable the build is and if we should stick with it or scrap it off completely! Thanks for helping out! ^^

Bixs

Denmark66 Posts

October 31 2010 12:06 GMT

#136

I am gonna try this, but with a faster expo - mostly because my gut tells me I can get away with it. I'll let you guys know how that turns out.

unkkz

Norway2196 Posts

October 31 2010 12:19 GMT

#137

As a toss myself i can vouch for the effectiveness of thors, they are insane.

puissance

97 Posts

October 31 2010 12:40 GMT

#138

As already stated, i think the build MIGHT have potencial, but your opener is ill-constructed.

First of you need an answer to more or less fast Colossus builds, the biggest threat to your opener imo. On the other hand you dont neither Ghost nor your Ebay that fast.

I will test the following approach:
2 Rax opener (T Lab, Reactor) with Stim and then Shield upgrade. Stim is cruical to stop Void Ray opener i think, therefore i get it before Shield.
The 2 Rax allow a very fast Expo (while the Reactor is building on the second Rax). After the CC starts i would build a Factory and add a Reactor to it on completion, also i would build a Starport.
With the capacity to build either Vikings or Medivacs we are save against Colossus pushes.
Now i would start with the Armory and Thor production on completion. Also add another Factory.
Before adding more buildings, would start my third CC now and adjust accordingly, geting Ghosts at this point is a good idea, as they answer massed Immortals and Templar.

xseverityx

52 Posts

October 31 2010 13:13 GMT

#139

1200pt diamond toss so take with grain of salt: I just don't see how this gives T an advantage. Stalker+colossus will be way more capable of defending bases in a macro race and storm late-game will still win most games, whereas trying to defend 3+ bases with thors is difficult in practice. tanks are a better mid-game unit imo. they are better at defending and are really good harass units.

EMP is a GG ability though abuse it like storm

Dfgj

Singapore5922 Posts

October 31 2010 15:06 GMT

#140

Lategame this doesn't die. It just doesn't. It's a thundering wall of metal that knocks 200/200 P armies aside.

You're going to be a little pressed to get enough economy to maintain that sort of thing though, which is the best way to handle this build imo - keep T limited on bases as much as possible. Of course, PFs, lol.