EPTTvP the new way! - Page 6
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RoyaL-TigeR
59 Posts
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actionbastrd
Congo598 Posts
Well he is saying the build is X, so obviously he is not getting anything but X units, ever, no matter what. Thats just plain dumb. I also hate micro arguments since its always one sided. Well if the protoss micros he will win. Well what if terran micros as well? Might not be the auto win you claim it would be. And not all builds can be executed well at all levels of play, keep that in mind. Just because you see a pro gamer do it in gsl doesn't mean you can do it and win with easy like they may have. Does that make the build a fail? obviously not. (but then again if a pro used it successfully we wouldn't have a discussion about it would we :-/) A couple of these responses are B.net forum quality too. D: | ||
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Sgtcrispy
United States3 Posts
Again, thanks. Was having trouble in TvP before this but now on a win streak. | ||
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Wartortle
Australia504 Posts
bit worried about the fact that emping, then casting the cannons and microing my army out of storm might be a bit much for my skill level  also, so you really use no marauders at all? how do u hold a 2 or 4 gate? thanks  | ||
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Wartortle
Australia504 Posts
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MiKTeX
United States234 Posts
when I see biomech (tanks or thors + a smaller bio army) I tech to templar and use immortal/templar and skip colossus entirely I do not understand how you expect to beat my army with your composition, which seems to be tailored to counter standard robotics armies | ||
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RoyaL-TigeR
59 Posts
people generally seem to end up mass thor with no ghosts and barely any rines in the replays, any comments on this from people? the ghosts and rines definitely helped early game though. I end up not having enough ghosts because I keep forgetting late game. This strategy is still new to me and I still need to get used to it. Do not try to use 250mm in battle, it can get you killed. Only use 250mm when most of his army are gone and you are only facing colossi and they're right next to you. Use it as an opportunistic approach. hi when I see biomech (tanks or thors + a smaller bio army) I tech to templar and use immortal/templar and skip colossus entirely I do not understand how you expect to beat my army with your composition, which seems to be tailored to counter standard robotics armies That is the army composition that this combo shine best against. The only unit combo that the terran's army have problem with is mass colossi, literally MASS colossi with stalkers. However, good scouting and good viking counts will solve that problem. Who said you have to only mass thors, marines and ghosts? | ||
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Tyrannon
Germany113 Posts
Do you have any of those? Maybe even posting some you are losing with this? | ||
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RoyaL-TigeR
59 Posts
I´d love to see a replay against blinkstalkers or a really aggressive play by Protoss. Every Replay added was 20minute Freedom + One big Fight. Do you have any of those? Maybe even posting some you are losing with this? I do have replays of me losing to TofuD (a lot of 4 gate until I made the opener stronger). And I did lost to him when he mass colossi with stalkers (no blinking ones). But that's because I failed to scout his mass colossi so it was my fault. I have not run into any blinking stalkers yet, if you are willing to do that with me we can have a go or two. Or you can find me some protoss players that are willing to do that. RoyaLTigeR.723 =] | ||
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RoyaL-TigeR
59 Posts
I feel like one of the reasons the protoss do not want to commit to any attacks is because they know that they will have a disadvantage if they come to my base and attack. Same goes for me, if I move out before reaching a critical number, I will get melt away. This build is TOO passive for my taste though. So I am thinking of getting a starport up faster and start doing 8 marines drop all around the map while getting up to a big number. That should give the protoss more on their plate. =] | ||
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chickensnack
United States21 Posts
What I noticed from the replays is that the Thors are the real meat of the composition. They simply obliterate every ground unit the protoss can throw at them especially with upgrades. The infantry is really just fodder to soak up damage otherwise meant for the Thors. Personally I think that any protoss who gets colossus with thermal lances would probably stuff this strategy. Pure speculation of course as I don't play toss myself but as a Terran player, that would be what I would worry about if I went this Thor/Marine build. | ||
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RoyaL-TigeR
59 Posts
I watched some of the replays. This is a rather passive build that doesn't use much aggression. I guess its a turtle style of play. What I noticed from the replays is that the Thors are the real meat of the composition. They simply obliterate every ground unit the protoss can throw at them especially with upgrades. The infantry is really just fodder to soak up damage otherwise meant for the Thors. Personally I think that any protoss who gets colossus with thermal lances would probably stuff this strategy. Pure speculation of course as I don't play toss myself but as a Terran player, that would be what I would worry about if I went this Thor/Marine build. That's why you get vikings if they have a lot of colossi. And yes, the build is quite passive right now and I'm trying to make it more aggressive by adding the starport earlier and bring out medivacs to do 8 marines drops around the map. It turn out to work really well, especially if they decided to rush you really quick with colossi, then you have the vikings to back it up. =] | ||
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Shlowpoke
United States102 Posts
1) Why do you need to get ghosts that fast? I assume you're worried about fast immortal pushes, but since you have tons of Marines you should be able to use them to focus down an Immortal's shields immediately. I think you might be okay if you just get a bunker and Thor rush while building a CC in your base. Especially since Thor Marine seems very good defensively (at least on paper). Why not get ghosts after you expand, and try to time it so that you'll have some EMPs out in time for a Templar rush or a big 4-5+ Immortal attack? 2) What's up with that fast engineering bay and turrets? I'm down with rushing for a +1 upgrade if you're going mass marine, but the turrets at least seem unnecessary unless you suspect DTs. You have plenty of marines to deal with void rays and phoenixes. If there are reasons for any of the above, please enlighten me. If you cut those things out you could maybe expand earlier, get some marauders to make it harder for Zealots to get to your Thors, get more upgrades, or get a faster starport for emergency vikings or banshee harass. And I think you really will need vikings against a careful Colossus user. The guys you played against just kind of a-moved their whole army, which hilariously makes the Colossus AI target the Thors instead of the Marines. If I was playing against this build, I'd either Gate Core FE or 2 Gate Robo FE into Colossi with 1-2 Immortals. During the battles I'd move my Colossi forward and try to poke at your Thors/Marines since I have range advantage. If you move the marines forward I can force field them back and pick them off. I think the only thing that would really give me pause there is Viking support. Another issue is that late game incorporating a few Void Rays into your Gateway/Colossus ball will make all the Thors waste their fire on the air, so having a good Viking count will be very important. That said, I think this could be made into a workable strategy. Keep at it, guys! EDIT: If you want to try an early push, you might have a timing window when you hit 3 Thors, since 3 Thors one-shot all Protoss gateway units and the Immortal/Colossus count should be low. | ||
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jemag
Canada98 Posts
1) Why do you need to get ghosts that fast? I assume you're worried about fast immortal pushes, but since you have tons of Marines you should be able to use them to focus down an Immortal's shields immediately. I think you might be okay if you just get a bunker and Thor rush while building a CC in your base. Especially since Thor Marine seems very good defensively (at least on paper). Why not get ghosts after you expand, and try to time it so that you'll have some EMPs out in time for a Templar rush or a big 4-5+ Immortal attack? 2) What's up with that fast engineering bay and turrets? I'm down with rushing for a +1 upgrade if you're going mass marine, but the turrets at least seem unnecessary unless you suspect DTs. You have plenty of marines to deal with void rays and phoenixes. 1) Yeah actually we been looking at that and it might be as good if not better to get the ghosts a little later on. Still testing it, I'd have to ask Royal if he has updates on this. 2) The engineering bay is mainly for the +1 and as a safety. But yeah I removed the turret from the build order as it's really up to the user to decide on that. | ||
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Wartortle
Australia504 Posts
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Zvendetta
United States321 Posts
What the OP suggested was to add on blue hellions in RESPONSE to that, however, given the units/upgrades you're already producing, you will be severely outproduced by protoss warpgates already churning out lots. To start getting blue hellions to manageable deal with mass charge lots you need tech lab on a factory, then a reactor factory (how you get them is dependent on your choice), by the time you scout the TC and the lots, I doubt you'll be able to get those hellions up fast in time. The one thing I do find detrimental is the fact that there is no inclusion of ways to deny expos, it almost feels as if this "macro- geered" play style is reliant on outbasing your opponent midlategame, then just overwhelming his army with a very diverse composition strong against alot of things. Just because you want to play "macro oriented" doesn't mean it has to be passive the ENTIRE game. At no point in the build do I just feel, explode, make the enemy feel absolutely afraid. There is no critical turning point where you can 100% say I have the game, and if that IS the exact play style you want, then bravo, because this build is perfect for it. If you really want to add a literal explosion to this, then plan on transitioning into nukes, (not nuke rush or anything), once you are gearing up that macro army off 3/4 base, then add some real firepower to those ghosts. Honestly, when a terran gets a fourth base that's so much income he can get whatever he pleases. | ||
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SCling
18 Posts
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Bixs
Denmark66 Posts
I however can not say what the specific timing weakness are or what the lategame counter is :S (maybe like someone said about mass gateway and colossus) Chargelots don't seem to be that much of a threat, because of the marines (zealots just evaporat and stalkers spontaneously combust) Something to think about, is that you might be able to get away with expanding MUCH earlier, like 1 rax FE, if you get a reaper (for scouting) and bunker up with marines and a ghost? Ohh and one last thing, I have always had the feeling that marauders suck versus chargelots? The slow is kinda an offensive ability imo | ||
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jemag
Canada98 Posts
In your more recent replays, you started changing around the build timings and such. Are they better timings? Or should people still refer to your OP? Well like I said we're still testing out some timings about the ghosts. Also, the timings really depend on wether or not the Protoss goes for a fast expansion. I'll try to come with more and more precise timings as we refine the build. The thing is there is only 1 terran that I know testing it, so it does take time. | ||
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positron.
634 Posts
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