TvP the new way! - Page 8

I will test the following approach:
2 Rax opener (T Lab, Reactor) with Stim and then Shield upgrade. Stim is cruical to stop Void Ray opener i think, therefore i get it before Shield.
The 2 Rax allow a very fast Expo (while the Reactor is building on the second Rax). After the CC starts i would build a Factory and add a Reactor to it on completion, also i would build a Starport.
With the capacity to build either Vikings or Medivacs we are save against Colossus pushes.
Now i would start with the Armory and Thor production on completion. Also add another Factory.
Before adding more buildings, would start my third CC now and adjust accordingly, geting Ghosts at this point is a good idea, as they answer massed Immortals and Templar.

On October 29 2010 10:40 RyanRushia wrote:
i feel like a robo-centric build would demolish this. colossus destroy marine/ghost and immoral WRECKS thors. also your 250mm portion is somewhat invalid vs good players, because they wont sit there in the AOE and take the full brunt of the damage. I can personally say that i've never lost to thor users as a protoss player... i actually prefer Terran to use them because of how ineffective they are

im not trying to bash on the OP, merely stating that theoretic descriptions (250mm example) aren't always applicable in actual-game scenarios

Just curious, why has no mention of nukes been made? 100 min/100 gas not too resource intensive since you will have ghosts already at this point. 2 Gacademy -> after EMP, place nuke behind zeals towards where Cols are. Of course a sensible toss will back up but this will give a huge advantage in terms of taking out retreating units. 2 Nukes + will alow you to slowly push inwards and once outside his base, it wouldn't be hard to contain and take out his nat.

The map can play a huge role in this as well . For example, on LT you would simply drop ledge, scan, emp, nuke and move in. I use this quite often in normal matchups and think that it would add a great amount of value to this build.

It confuses me to no end why after seeing thor+marine (mainly thor) that TofuD didn't immediately get charge and start building a zealot army while getting some sentries for guardian shield and spend the rest on upgrades (which he never got, just finished a forge at 18:00) and Immortals or Voidrays since if Royal is going thor+marine he's very immobile and getting a few voidrays to harass different locations would work very well. Add to that Voidrays do amazingly well against thors and marines SHOULD NOT be hitting voidrays if you have tons of zealots.

Oh and the convo at the end made me lawl, especially since he knows zealots do well against thors and yet got almost purely Stalker+Collossi (very few collossi at that).

Honestly though this just makes me sad to watch, these people are 2k+ in Diamond and not trying to be a dick here but honestly I had hoped Diamond would be for the "Elite" or what have you. Instead I feel like I'm watching Platinum or Gold during beta. We need a Rainbow league for the very best on Bnet.

On November 02 2010 09:47 jemag wrote:


Actually the only 2k+ players were NYD and Bigbadbeaver. Also I really don't think void ray would be a good idea as a mid game option. I think the only way to use void ray in this case would be to put high pressure at the start, abusing high ground vision with void ray + stalkers.

Also, I see a lot lot of comments about chargelots. Chargelots arn't that good against thors + marine ghosts to be honest. The thing is that you also need some kind of splash damage to deal with the infantry behind. If you go straight into chargelot you could get HTs after, which would be pretty risky with the ghosts already on the map or get delayed colossus, which wouldnt be ideal also. I think the safer way would be to go fast colossus and to transition into chargelot a little later on but still this take quite some time to get to and the terran should have more than enough time to respond accordingly.

I don't think there is a 100% clear counter as far as unit combination goes as the build is still pretty adaptive. I think the current weakness in the build resides mainly in the early game and some vulnerability to early pressure, which we are trying to fix with a more refined and solid opener.

On November 02 2010 09:12 Aeruthus wrote:
It confuses me to no end why after seeing thor+marine (mainly thor) that TofuD didn't immediately get charge and start building a zealot army while getting some sentries for guardian shield and spend the rest on upgrades (which he never got, just finished a forge at 18:00) and Immortals or Voidrays since if Royal is going thor+marine he's very immobile and getting a few voidrays to harass different locations would work very well. Add to that Voidrays do amazingly well against thors and marines SHOULD NOT be hitting voidrays if you have tons of zealots.

Oh and the convo at the end made me lawl, especially since he knows zealots do well against thors and yet got almost purely Stalker+Collossi (very few collossi at that).

Honestly though this just makes me sad to watch, these people are 2k+ in Diamond and not trying to be a dick here but honestly I had hoped Diamond would be for the "Elite" or what have you. Instead I feel like I'm watching Platinum or Gold during beta. We need a Rainbow league for the very best on Bnet.

On November 02 2010 10:24 clickrush wrote:


chargelots are amazing vs that combination to tank marine dps while immortals wreck havoc on the thors. I wish i have safed a replay because I actually encountered a very similar build. I was like "wth, do terrans think they can get away with everything?". ghost do really nothing against chargelots because EMP does not have a huge effect on them when they allready charged. and when not, then you can simply retreat.

the only reason why I fear terrans are marauders, because they soak up so much damage from HT/colossi without dieing and they slow down the chargelots so effectively + they get healed.

you suggest a very macro heavy playstile but I garantee you that with the same macro mindset you will destroy protosses with a bio build. means you can allways add medivacs, ghosts, vikings for support.

your idea mb comes from the general missconception many terrans have, that they somehow should have the most effective lategame army. but this is sc2, a different game, so you simply adapt and stay on more bases than the protoss while punishing his immobility.

On November 01 2010 14:03 sksyen wrote:
Just curious, why has no mention of nukes been made? 100 min/100 gas not too resource intensive since you will have ghosts already at this point. 2 Gacademy -> after EMP, place nuke behind zeals towards where Cols are. Of course a sensible toss will back up but this will give a huge advantage in terms of taking out retreating units. 2 Nukes + will alow you to slowly push inwards and once outside his base, it wouldn't be hard to contain and take out his nat.

The map can play a huge role in this as well . For example, on LT you would simply drop ledge, scan, emp, nuke and move in. I use this quite often in normal matchups and think that it would add a great amount of value to this build.