+1speedlot -> 2stargate sair

On February 11 2010 00:45 FortuneSyn wrote:
I've played a guy who did this 3 times in a row against me and I beat it 3 times like this.
1) 3h spire into 9muta (4th hatch after spire), beat off the zeal rush. do this if his forge is spinning at 50% lair.
2) get 5th hatch, den evo and go hydra. When u want to move out with hydras, if he has like 6 sairs annoying you, make 2 spores on nat and park ovies on top, 1 spore on third base. It's so gg because he won't have storm yet and the only thing keeping your hydras in base are his annoying sairs.

His sair count wont be high enough by the time your mutas fend off the lot push and counter his main/nat.

On February 11 2010 00:51 Salv wrote:


This might work, but this build is designed to beat neo sauron, not three hat mutalisk. I suspect if a Protoss player scouted your build and saw neo sauron, he wouldn't be doing this rush. However if you went three hat spire and then scourge -> fourth hat like usual, then the rush would still be effective. It sounds like the Protoss you played simply knew the build, but wasn't actually aware of how to adapt with it.

On February 11 2010 00:51 Salv wrote:1


This might work, but this build is designed to beat neo sauron, not three hat mutalisk. I suspect if a Protoss player scouted your build and saw neo sauron, he wouldn't be doing this rush. However if you went three hat spire and then scourge -> fourth hat like usual, then the rush would still be effective. It sounds like the Protoss you played simply knew the build, but wasn't actually aware of how to adapt with it.

On February 11 2010 00:45 FortuneSyn wrote:
I've played a guy who did this 3 times in a row against me and I beat it 3 times like this.
1) 3h spire into 9muta (4th hatch after spire), beat off the zeal rush. do this if his forge is spinning at 50% lair.
2) get 5th hatch, den evo and go hydra. When u want to move out with hydras, if he has like 6 sairs annoying you, make 2 spores on nat and park ovies on top, 1 spore on third base. It's so gg because he won't have storm yet and the only thing keeping your hydras in base are his annoying sairs.

His sair count wont be high enough by the time your mutas fend off the lot push and counter his main/nat.

On February 11 2010 01:38 Salv wrote:
Fortune, my bad, I misread your post, I thought you meant you were going for a regular three hatchery mutalisk build. If you did the spire as normal and then a fourth hat into mutas, I am surprised you won because if what you wrote is indeed the case, then this build would be awful against mutalisk, which is the direct counter to a speedlot rush. That being said, I think by the time you dealt with his zealot rush and began to make hydralisks, if the Protoss did not already have zealots, high templar and started to expand I would be very surprised.

On February 11 2010 01:57 Failsafe wrote:
Just use a good building wall and 3 sunkens at both your 3rd and your natural to stop the +1 zealots. Build a few speedlings for extra reinforcement and use drones as needed. With modern walling zerg play there's really no reason to struggle against a +1 charge.

Once you've stopped the +1 speedlots, immediately transition into hydras and probably place a few spores for safety reasons. If you can use speedlings to deny his third until you get lurkers you should be in great shape since 2 stargate sair is a pretty gas heavy build so he won't have the necessary items to stop lurkers from destroying him.

Use your newly morphed lurkers to stop his third and then expand twice and tech to hive. If you succeed with this the game should be over. If you don't succeed at denying the third I think a lurker contain would still be a good bet since the gas issue is still an immediate problem for a protoss using this build. Assuming the protoss gets his third he'll have a chance to break the contain, but he'll be delayed and probably won't have reavers available. So you should have a much better than usual chance of maintaining a lurker contain and winning the game without any real difficulties.

Anyway lurkers are gonna be a key unit in beating a toss who uses this build. You just have to make sure that you get enough hydralisk to defend against the corsairs and any further zealot aggression before you start to play with heavy lurker action. Basically the key to beating this build is that it's pretty linear and you should be able to anticipate the timings easily. If you fuck up, it'll probably be hard to recover, but if you don't fuck up, and you play a conservative game, you should be in good shape

On February 11 2010 01:16 Papvin wrote:

If you can find them, can you please post those replays? I did pretty much the same thing the first time I fought it, and got completely rolled. My hydras were just waay late so his sairs killed so many overlords the game was over just there.
Actually, if anyone has replays of zergs beating this build (yourself or others, don't care), it'd be really apreciated!

On February 11 2010 00:36 Papvin wrote:
Hi, I have recently encountered a strategy that I have such a hard time beating. The toss gets +1 asap without stargate and gets a total of 2 gateways pumping untill its done. The he attacks with +1 speedlots, and gets 2 stargates pumping corsairs. If I go something like 3h muta, which has always been my response to +1 speedlot rush, I get completely pwned by the sairs. If I do anything else I die to the speedlots. A guy I played against suggested that I should go lurkers and spores against sairs, but this would seem to fuck up my econ completely since I should get lurkers off like 3 hatch. I'm really trying to figure out a good way of dealing with this build, but haven't found it yet.
Here's the most recent rep of me getting owned by it:
http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=31116
I went 5h muta cause I mistoke the timing of the forge due to bad scouting, thought it was starport-> +1 speedlot, but clearly wasn't. I've had another game going 3h muta getting completely dominated. So the guy might be right about the lurkers, since mutas doesn't seem to do the trick?

On February 11 2010 08:10 neVern wrote:



You have a replay of an S class progamer against it so we can compare your play to something?

On February 11 2010 06:30 Papvin wrote:
Okay, so it seems the protosses I've played were all right, I need to get lurkers asap! Would you guys recommend opening like 3h lurker with den at 50% lair like in zvt? I guess it'd come in decent time to stop the attack, might aswell go practice my lurker openings since I've pretty much exclusively opened 3h spire 5h den zvp against fe lol.