Sun Tzu - The Art of War [PDF]

On September 10 2009 13:19 cz wrote:
Sorry to be a hater, but the book is really pointless to read for educational or improvement reasons. Everything in it is very, very obvious and is stuff you already know. It's one of those books that the intelligista like to brag about reading/applying but don't realize how worthless it actually is. There is historical value in it, though.

If you disagree I challenge you to quote something from the book that is both useful and not obvious.

On September 10 2009 13:34 Scooge wrote:


for someone so in touch with what the intelligentsia likes, you don't seem that familiar with burden of proof!

On September 10 2009 13:37 cz wrote:


Just quote something that is both useful and not obvious. I suppose I could rephrase my earlier to post to ask the OP to back up his claims, thus putting the burden of proof on him, but that would take more work.

On September 10 2009 14:38 m4gdelen4 wrote:


Just don't fucking come and post in a thread about something you don't like.

On September 10 2009 14:43 Kwark wrote:
I agree that most of what it says can be deduced logically but I disagree that makes it useless. The way I see it, most bw strategy is obvious. It's a series of choices and if asked at any given time what to do the average D player can work out the correct one. Sometimes you just need someone to say it.

On September 10 2009 14:38 m4gdelen4 wrote:


Just don't fucking come and post in a thread about something you don't like. The thread was titled correctly, it was obvious to you what it was, stay away.

On September 10 2009 14:58 cz wrote:


I disagree with this. Or at least to the magnitude of it. Most bw strategy is not at all obvious to the level of what The Art of War is. Think of it like this: the average comment in the book is something like "be aware of what your opponent is doing" or "attack when your enemy is weak, not strong". That's not the equivalent of being given a 5 hat hydra build or learning a proper timing window, it's the equivalent of someone telling you "don't fight 12 zealots with your 3 zerglings, save them instead". What constitutes legitimate strategy in starcraft is an order of magnitude or many steps away from what the Art of War gives, which are just basic, very obvious comments.

In other words, if I wrote a 30 page book filled with comments such as:

"Don't waste your units, but rather save them."
"Always try to be aware of what your opponent is doing and try to negate him from doing the same to you."

and I said that those comments should help people improve their bw game, I would be laughed off the forum. That's the equivalent of what the Art of War contains, except I used starcraft terms above. In that same sense, that the Art of War might help anyone improve starcraft is also laughable. That said there is historic value and perhaps some sort of pre-game psych value in the book, but as for learning anything new, that's not going to happen. It's a very, very overhyped book of limited to no functional value.

I'm not trying to take away from the OP posting a copy of the book, just stating my view on the book itself.

On September 10 2009 15:11 Kwark wrote:

Bw really is that simple. I watch replays with bad players all the time and those are the things you say. I'll get them to pause and say "what do you know about his build, what should you do against that". If put on the spot they can either work it out or say they don't know enough. If they don't know I point out they should be scouting and they're like "oh yeah :S". Anyone can work that out if asked. What's harder is to maintain that kind of decision making in game.
Seriously, everyone understands the basics, like storm against hydralisk or scourge against corsair. It's the decision making that wins it. You gotta apply the basic logical decision making at high speed to your gameplay. That's how you win bw.

On September 10 2009 14:59 cz wrote:


This has got to be ban-worthy.