EPTOn January 25 2013 04:39 Lazermonkey wrote:
Jay
Well, after really analysing his filter, I must say he looks far far worse than grush.
1. His vote on Hopeless.
All of Jay's votes this far has been super funky. But the one who is by far the most funky is his vote on hopeless. + Show Spoiler +Just look how he goes from, ''I have a slight town read on Hopeless regardless of SlOosh flipping scum or not'' to ''I think Hopeless is scum because SlOosh flipped SK''. He doesn't actully give out any reasoning for voting Hopeless what so ever. Even better, he doesn't actually push Hopeless at all and before Hopeless is lynched, he asks Hopeless to give out his reads in case he is town (Lol). Instead he goes on to poke a bit on grush for lurking.
2. His interactions with Hapa
self-explanatory + and I did post about this earlier.
3. He doesn't really have any town reads.
Giving out town reads usually isn't alignment indicative. But the way Jay does it, I feel it is. His only real town reads (and by ''real'', I'm excluding stuff like null/slight town shit) were WBG and MrZentor. Both for shit reasons. WBG because he said that it made no sense for both him and SlOosh and WBG to be scum but SlOosh hadn't even flipped at that point. MrZentor because he defended him at the start if D1... I get the impression that he is trying to buddy up with the vets while setting up bandwagons everywhere else.
4. His back and forth with grush
Note that this is actually not that dependant on grush being scum, though it does indeed make him look worse if grush is indeed scum. Basically all game he has got a scum read on grush it seems, yet he doesn't want to vote him nor truly push him. He just keeps on poking him a little bit now and then. Very non-commital. Look at British Empire MM where he had a scum read on Mr.CC and note the big diference compared to this game. In both game he was having a scum read who noone else was really interested in. In British, he kept pushing Mr. CC like a madman. In this game, not so much. Also, why no vote on grush? In British he mentions CC for like the third time ever in the game and BAM, vote right away.+ Show Spoiler +Even now, he hasn't voted grush. He keeps on pushing him like mad, yet he says we should vote for me tomorrow.
Jay
Well, after really analysing his filter, I must say he looks far far worse than grush.
1. His vote on Hopeless.
All of Jay's votes this far has been super funky. But the one who is by far the most funky is his vote on hopeless. + Show Spoiler +
On January 17 2013 11:19 jaybrundage wrote:
Independent of you being scum voting for hopeless. I have a null tell/leaning townieon Hopeless. He has done some scummy things earlier on.
However I think more recent his posting has improved like his reasoning for voting for Ruuch when he thought he might be town does make sense. It shows reasoning and his thought process.
SlOosh In the small possibility that you are town. If you could give your reads on everyone and your other scum reads as well, I know that you think Hopeless and WBG are scum is there a third party that appeals to you? We have a whole day left. The more people post and be transparent the better of a chance town has towards winning.
@Hapa given what Hopeless said. Why did you vote for Ruunch? If you thought Prom was scum?
Independent of you being scum voting for hopeless. I have a null tell/leaning townieon Hopeless. He has done some scummy things earlier on.
However I think more recent his posting has improved like his reasoning for voting for Ruuch when he thought he might be town does make sense. It shows reasoning and his thought process.
SlOosh In the small possibility that you are town. If you could give your reads on everyone and your other scum reads as well, I know that you think Hopeless and WBG are scum is there a third party that appeals to you? We have a whole day left. The more people post and be transparent the better of a chance town has towards winning.
@Hapa given what Hopeless said. Why did you vote for Ruunch? If you thought Prom was scum?
On January 18 2013 09:45 jaybrundage wrote:
Given that Sloosh was SK. It makes my read of hopeless off. I assumed that sloosh would flip scum which would make Hopeless more likly to be town. But with Sloosh flipping SK it makes Hopeless seem a lot scummier imo.
Tmw we should lynch hopeless or lynch grush. His pretty useless and hasn't contributed at all. When he does deem to give his reads. He doesn't follow it with any reasoning.
Also Mr.Z i said it before but you gotta step it up. Where is the late game Mr.Z that was promised to me
Given that Sloosh was SK. It makes my read of hopeless off. I assumed that sloosh would flip scum which would make Hopeless more likly to be town. But with Sloosh flipping SK it makes Hopeless seem a lot scummier imo.
Tmw we should lynch hopeless or lynch grush. His pretty useless and hasn't contributed at all. When he does deem to give his reads. He doesn't follow it with any reasoning.
Also Mr.Z i said it before but you gotta step it up. Where is the late game Mr.Z that was promised to me
2. His interactions with Hapa
self-explanatory + and I did post about this earlier.
3. He doesn't really have any town reads.
Giving out town reads usually isn't alignment indicative. But the way Jay does it, I feel it is. His only real town reads (and by ''real'', I'm excluding stuff like null/slight town shit) were WBG and MrZentor. Both for shit reasons. WBG because he said that it made no sense for both him and SlOosh and WBG to be scum but SlOosh hadn't even flipped at that point. MrZentor because he defended him at the start if D1... I get the impression that he is trying to buddy up with the vets while setting up bandwagons everywhere else.
4. His back and forth with grush
Note that this is actually not that dependant on grush being scum, though it does indeed make him look worse if grush is indeed scum. Basically all game he has got a scum read on grush it seems, yet he doesn't want to vote him nor truly push him. He just keeps on poking him a little bit now and then. Very non-commital. Look at British Empire MM where he had a scum read on Mr.CC and note the big diference compared to this game. In both game he was having a scum read who noone else was really interested in. In British, he kept pushing Mr. CC like a madman. In this game, not so much. Also, why no vote on grush? In British he mentions CC for like the third time ever in the game and BAM, vote right away.+ Show Spoiler +
On January 06 2013 03:32 jaybrundage wrote:
First off you said you have done this before how many times have you done this tunneling on DP and out of the times you have done it how many times have you been wrong. If you play with DP alot and you can read him consistently then I will reconsider my position.
The reason I find him scummy as been said before. Is his flip flopping on Hapa from hes obv completly with out a doubt scum to i have no fucking idea. It seemed to me like scum backing off of a mislynch they were pushing gone wrong. I personally put alot less faith in reading people's reactions to when they are about to be or going to be lynched.
The quote was me being frustrated with DP's flip flopping he has gone from scum to town to scum now giving someone townie cred for the possibility of one of his scum reads being town. So yes he did change his opinion on hapa again. I didnt say anything wrong.
Also I dont like CC hes doing absolutely nothing this game.
He has made some worthless comments about concentrating on finding scum. He was mentioning the DP-Hapa conversations early one with out giving his opinion on him hasn't commentated much on it when DP was doing some scummy stuff.
He makes a case on Xalatos for making a 180 on DP and calls him scummy for it. However when DP does so many 180s on Hapa hes trying to pull off a 900. CC doesn't give it a second thought although DP is doing the samething as Xalatos CC ignores it. CC has played like he has more knowledge on other townies. He would of known if DP and Hapa were town or not so he played accordingly. Also his lack of anything in his filter is really disconcerting. He has said useless 1 liners. And made a case of 180s that were exactly what DP was doing.
##Unvote
##Vote Mr.CheeseCake
First off you said you have done this before how many times have you done this tunneling on DP and out of the times you have done it how many times have you been wrong. If you play with DP alot and you can read him consistently then I will reconsider my position.
The reason I find him scummy as been said before. Is his flip flopping on Hapa from hes obv completly with out a doubt scum to i have no fucking idea. It seemed to me like scum backing off of a mislynch they were pushing gone wrong. I personally put alot less faith in reading people's reactions to when they are about to be or going to be lynched.
The quote was me being frustrated with DP's flip flopping he has gone from scum to town to scum now giving someone townie cred for the possibility of one of his scum reads being town. So yes he did change his opinion on hapa again. I didnt say anything wrong.
Also I dont like CC hes doing absolutely nothing this game.
He has made some worthless comments about concentrating on finding scum. He was mentioning the DP-Hapa conversations early one with out giving his opinion on him hasn't commentated much on it when DP was doing some scummy stuff.
He makes a case on Xalatos for making a 180 on DP and calls him scummy for it. However when DP does so many 180s on Hapa hes trying to pull off a 900. CC doesn't give it a second thought although DP is doing the samething as Xalatos CC ignores it. CC has played like he has more knowledge on other townies. He would of known if DP and Hapa were town or not so he played accordingly. Also his lack of anything in his filter is really disconcerting. He has said useless 1 liners. And made a case of 180s that were exactly what DP was doing.
##Unvote
##Vote Mr.CheeseCake
A grush+Jay scumteam does in fact make sense. Especially with Jay suspecting grush for the longest time, but still always preferring some other lynch candidate over grush.
The problem I'm having is this: Jay has basically played to his town meta (except his weaker D1 and this later almost-AFK'ing for many days). He's being open, active and pushes his reads. It's in his nature to be a lynchbait (looking scummy at times), but there's nothing that convinces me of him being scum. Even his "funky" vote for Hopeless can be explained by the fact that a Sloosh+Hopeless scumteam was unlikely (thus the slight townread on Hopeless), but with Sloosh flipping SK, it made sense again for Hopeless to be scum (SK+scum being the opposing wagons makes a lot more sense than scum+scum being the opposing wagons).
All in all Jay looks quite townish to me individually. But there aren't too many options left anymore, and with a grush+Jay team looking like a plausible combination, Jay can't be given a free pass - especially now at LYLO.
When thinking about Lazermonkey, I keep coming back to Kush's early posts. Can these really come from scum?
On January 13 2013 09:47 kushm4sta wrote:
fyi i dont read megacases, so keep that in mind.
k this is my last intro post.
Next time I post it will be telling you who i think is scum.
fyi i dont read megacases, so keep that in mind.
k this is my last intro post.
Next time I post it will be telling you who i think is scum.
On January 13 2013 12:30 kushm4sta wrote:
i was lying i guess
i was lying i guess
On January 14 2013 04:01 kushm4sta wrote:
mrz is playing scum how I play scum aka newbish.
he has these amazing town reads
revoting mrz
##unvote
##vote mrz
mrz is playing scum how I play scum aka newbish.
he has these amazing town reads
revoting mrz
##unvote
##vote mrz
I even read through the early Witchcraft and Kush definitely didn't play this erratically as scum. He was a bit spammy, yeah, but he was also being polite and trying not to gather negative attention with his posts. He clearly cared about appearing innocent and staying safe. That's not the case at all here. Now Kush just kept saying whatever he wanted and didn't clearly care about looking scummy. If someone can show me wrong, please do, but I just can't see the link between Kush's earlier scum play and this game.
I have a much harder time trying to read Lazermonkey. He does have some pretty scummy posts like this:
On January 18 2013 02:53 Lazermonkey wrote:
/Facepalm
How does me sheeping SS make me scum, Lol? He is one of the two players in the game who is in fact confirmed town. And I didn't vote SlOosh for the reasons that SS thought made SlOosh scum. I'm purely sheeping WBG.
/Facepalm
How does me sheeping SS make me scum, Lol? He is one of the two players in the game who is in fact confirmed town. And I didn't vote SlOosh for the reasons that SS thought made SlOosh scum. I'm purely sheeping WBG.
Or this (lol):
On January 18 2013 02:45 Lazermonkey wrote:
SlOosh.
I'm not too sure of the next two players as my main scum target died tonight...
However, I'm quite sure the two remaining scum are among
Hapa
grush
Xata
Jay
Iamp
MrZentor.
SlOosh.
I'm not too sure of the next two players as my main scum target died tonight...
However, I'm quite sure the two remaining scum are among
Hapa
grush
Xata
Jay
Iamp
MrZentor.
But then he does have some posts where it looks like he's actually trying to figure out the game:
On January 18 2013 23:54 Lazermonkey wrote:
This is actually quite interesting, Xata realizes that WBG isn't happening and says that both looks scummy but it's unlikely that both are scum. He then chooses to vote Hopeless, even tho my impression from the post is that he just as well could've voted hopeless. I don't think Hopeless and Xatalos are scum together. It makes no sense with the lynch this close to buss.
This is actually quite interesting, Xata realizes that WBG isn't happening and says that both looks scummy but it's unlikely that both are scum. He then chooses to vote Hopeless, even tho my impression from the post is that he just as well could've voted hopeless. I don't think Hopeless and Xatalos are scum together. It makes no sense with the lynch this close to buss.
On January 21 2013 07:18 Lazermonkey wrote:
WBG, how does hopeless flipping scum make grush look bad? O.o
I'd say it makes him look townie, he has been pushing Hopeless since D1 you know..
WBG, how does hopeless flipping scum make grush look bad? O.o
I'd say it makes him look townie, he has been pushing Hopeless since D1 you know..
All in all Kush/Lazermonkey is a real mixture of townish and scummy. I'm having a hard time coming to a conclusion about his alignment, but looking purely at the remaining player pool, I'd say that Lazermonkey makes more sense as scum individually than Jay while making less sense as scum in combination with grush (or they've been bussing each other really hard in recent days).
Then we arrive at grush. The extent of his contributions are alarmingly low throughout the whole game, and mostly he has just (actively?) lurked or posted meaningless filler.
On January 13 2013 14:58 grush57 wrote:
Lynch into hopeless, zentor, xatalos gogogo.
Lynch into hopeless, zentor, xatalos gogogo.
grush is showing a really scummy mindset. He's basing his will to lynch Hopeless on pretty much just OMGUS (earlier Hopeless had accused grush and grush went on the offensive without any real reasoning), MrZentor for no actual reason (except his "stupid and scummy" post formatting earlier I guess) and me for absolutely no reason (just sheeping Sloosh's case on me probably). Yet he's apparently willing to lynch any of us three, without preference. What the heck?
On January 15 2013 05:55 grush57 wrote:
Alright I'll get on the prome train.
Choo Choo!
##Unvote
##Vote: Promethelax
Alright I'll get on the prome train.
Choo Choo!
##Unvote
##Vote: Promethelax
Again he's showing an extreme indifference and sheepish attitude towards lynching scum. If he even intends to find scum at all...
On January 17 2013 06:48 grush57 wrote:
Sorry guys I know I've been afk but I can't help that.
If there's any consolation, i am town because of starsenses.
##Vote: Hopeless1dr
Sorry guys I know I've been afk but I can't help that.
If there's any consolation, i am town because of starsenses.
##Vote: Hopeless1dr
And again just purely sheeping.................
On January 20 2013 13:19 grush57 wrote:
Seeing hopeless' flip makes or breaks the reads bro.
Seeing hopeless' flip makes or breaks the reads bro.
Here he's apparently convinced that lynching Hopeless is the correct choice.
On January 21 2013 02:54 grush57 wrote:
I'll go for a lazermonkey lynch.
##Unvote
##Vote: lazermonkey
Also Mr. Zentor you are a confirmed town and you are doing absolute jack shit with it.
I'll go for a lazermonkey lynch.
##Unvote
##Vote: lazermonkey
Also Mr. Zentor you are a confirmed town and you are doing absolute jack shit with it.
Jumping off the Hopeless train conveniently when he's soon about to flip. Notice that he provides no reasoning for his drastic change of opinion (besides something vague earlier about Hopeless being a worse lynch candidate now due to his recent activity).
On January 21 2013 07:36 grush57 wrote:
hapa, seriosuly u literally did nothing this whole game, and notice how he doesn't refute it he just edits my post pulling the ol' scum strawman argument. You are absolutely nothing alike in your town games.
##Unvote
##Vote: HapaHauli
hapa, seriosuly u literally did nothing this whole game, and notice how he doesn't refute it he just edits my post pulling the ol' scum strawman argument. You are absolutely nothing alike in your town games.
##Unvote
##Vote: HapaHauli
Lazermonkey might actually get lynched instead of Hopeless at this rate?? Oh wait, I'm going to jump off the wagon again and 100% waste my vote while distancing myself nicely from Hapa at the same time. I can't possibly be held accountable for mislynching a townie (Hopeless) or cause my scumbuddy to be lynched (Lazermonkey) / be held accountable for mislynching a townie (Lazermonkey). I'm also making it look like I and Hapa can't be a scumteam. What could possibly go wrong?
*a lot of random filler and YouTube video clips follow, and then...*
On January 24 2013 06:41 grush57 wrote:
The case on WBG:
His first post with Hapa, so nice with his scumbuddy
Next post with Hapa
Hey wbg scumbuddy, you've pushed a probably town, but that stopped when you sheeped a wagon that you didn't vote for.No scumreads.
Geez, your stupid, but definitely not scum. Notice How he doesn't actually adress anything in the post that matters, just corrects a little thing.
Here is a post of how constantly throughout the game the scum do a shitty attack against eachother but never a real case
A town is getting lynched, but I;m not gonna bother to save him.
Let's look at the bolds first, jay(probably town at this point, me(town), zentor flipped town, xatalos(probably town at this point), and ruuch who is now iamperfection so probably town.
This also shows who voted for ruuch, Happa, Lazer, and WBG. :o I wonder why they wanted the easy mislynch
Besides the scummy logic notice the capital LOL
WBG was completely wrong on this too.
The only big case he made was on...... the SK! The only time he seemed town was pushing Sloosh because sloosh was acting scummy, but he was sk.
Hey I know you're town so I'm going to pull the classic move of making a town make reads for me.
Also
Hopeless - Town
Xatalos - Prolly town
Zentor- Town
Prome- Town
I am admitting to be lazy scum. Also lets mislynch hopeless.
...
Contradicting scum. That was just one post of why it was stupid to think that a vet town wbg would get shot by scum. When not in danger he puts himself townie, but when ind anger changes it up brohan.
So this was when it was between Hopeless and Lazer. It came down to wbg, and pretended to give a possibility of lynching lazer. In less than an hour he voted Hopeless mislynching him, because he called him scum. OMGUS... Also Lazermonkey just lurked and didn't even try to defend himself but he hopeless has shit reads therefore he is scum?
So basically throughout the game WBG has constantly contradicted himself, threw votes anywhere, put shitty attacks on scummates, always tried to mislynch(except for the sk), and even today he tried to vote me instead of Hapa at first. Strawman arguments, picks out one flaw of an attack and doesn't respond to the actual matter at hands.
I hope you all go throughout his filter aswell and make some reads yourself. I feel like I didn't get everything there was just too much scumminess.
The case on WBG:
His first post with Hapa, so nice with his scumbuddy
Next post with Hapa
Hey wbg scumbuddy, you've pushed a probably town, but that stopped when you sheeped a wagon that you didn't vote for.No scumreads.
Geez, your stupid, but definitely not scum. Notice How he doesn't actually adress anything in the post that matters, just corrects a little thing.
Here is a post of how constantly throughout the game the scum do a shitty attack against eachother but never a real case
![[image loading]](http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luoz314rbM1r6aoq4o1_250.gif)
A town is getting lynched, but I;m not gonna bother to save him.
Let's look at the bolds first, jay(probably town at this point, me(town), zentor flipped town, xatalos(probably town at this point), and ruuch who is now iamperfection so probably town.
This also shows who voted for ruuch, Happa, Lazer, and WBG. :o I wonder why they wanted the easy mislynch
Besides the scummy logic notice the capital LOL
WBG was completely wrong on this too.
The only big case he made was on...... the SK! The only time he seemed town was pushing Sloosh because sloosh was acting scummy, but he was sk.
Hey I know you're town so I'm going to pull the classic move of making a town make reads for me.
Also
Hopeless - Town
Xatalos - Prolly town
Zentor- Town
Prome- Town
I am admitting to be lazy scum. Also lets mislynch hopeless.
...
Contradicting scum. That was just one post of why it was stupid to think that a vet town wbg would get shot by scum. When not in danger he puts himself townie, but when ind anger changes it up brohan.
So this was when it was between Hopeless and Lazer. It came down to wbg, and pretended to give a possibility of lynching lazer. In less than an hour he voted Hopeless mislynching him, because he called him scum. OMGUS... Also Lazermonkey just lurked and didn't even try to defend himself but he hopeless has shit reads therefore he is scum?
So basically throughout the game WBG has constantly contradicted himself, threw votes anywhere, put shitty attacks on scummates, always tried to mislynch(except for the sk), and even today he tried to vote me instead of Hapa at first. Strawman arguments, picks out one flaw of an attack and doesn't respond to the actual matter at hands.
I hope you all go throughout his filter aswell and make some reads yourself. I feel like I didn't get everything there was just too much scumminess.
What is this, an actual case and reasoning for someone to be scum??? Nevermind. It's full of WIFOM, totally pointless arguments and very little actual reason. It all feels forced and grasping at straws to throw some dirt at WBG without success. Let's look at some of the (non)arguments being used here:
- Pointing out "capital LOL" as some sort of a scumtell
- Discussing in a friendly way with Hapa being a scumtell (why would scum associate like that openly in the thread?)
- Lazermonkey throwing a vote at WBG makes WBG scum..?
- "The only time he seemed town was when he was pushing Sloosh".... really now? The ONLY time he seemed town? There's no way grush believes this even himself
- WBG being wrong about his early scumreads is a scumtell...
- WBG "contradicting" himself with some comments about being shot at night or not... really? he just says "I haven't been shot as town in a while" and "who knows, I'll probably just be shot tonight", there isn't any contradiction there
- How is it scummy to lynch Hopeless for shitty reads while grush is just avoiding the lynch altogether himself...??
The only point I somewhat agree with is "A town is getting lynched, but I;m not gonna bother to save him." WBG had a really indifferent attitude there to Prom getting lynched. But that's just a small valid point in a sea of far-fetched and baseless accusations.
I feel confident that grush is our correct next lynch, but I'm not sure about Lazer/Jay. I'd really like some input especially on my conflicting read for Kush/Lazermonkey. Especially from iamperfection/WBG, if possible.
![[image loading]](http://frugalnfit.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/destroyed-cheesecake.jpg)
