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On September 14 2011 22:33 krews wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 22:24 ElPeque.fogata wrote:On September 14 2011 22:03 Chargelot wrote:On September 14 2011 21:53 ElPeque.fogata wrote:On September 14 2011 21:36 arbitrageur wrote:On September 14 2011 21:33 ElPeque.fogata wrote:
he is an asshole.
but what the fuck. just close his account and be done with it.
jail? wtf Your solution is not well thought out. The guy can make another account, or go to an internet cafe and do it there. So be it, close the new account. as it happens with hackers on battle.net. And go to privacy settings and dissalow him from contacting you or whatever. Ignore him, then it is not fun anymore and he moves on. There are so many trolls because trolled people are usually pretty retarded dealing with it. Jail for insulting? You take freedom away from being verbaly offensive? Oh yeah, we are much more human than him. Verbal offense is a very fuzzy area. Will you include making fun of religion? God damnit we live in a fascist world. There is the left, the right, but in the end we are all fascists. In all fairness, he didn't challenge the laws, or the right of the state to prosecute him. He pleaded guilty. If he didn't, it would have been just worse for him. Yet, so what? He probably knows unless he is just too crazy he is "guilty" of being an absolute asshole. The question is wether it makes any sense sending somebody to jail just for being an asshole and making someone else feel bad. If i cheat on my girlfriend and then leave her for her best friend and tell her i couldn't stand being with a girl with such a fat ass, and so then she commits suicide because of it, should i be sent to jail? There is no doubt i would be an absolute asshole and caused a huge ammount of pain, but should i be sent to jail? people are making the dumbest comparisons ive ever seen. how is downloading music and breaking up with your girlfriend comparable to making fun of a dead girl to her mother? seriously?
a·nal·o·gy
noun /əˈnaləjē/
analogies, plural
1. A comparison between two things, typically on the basis of their structure and for the purpose of explanation or clarification
* - an analogy between the workings of nature and those of human societies
* - he interprets logical functions by analogy with machines
2. A correspondence or partial similarity
On September 14 2011 22:44 brachester wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 22:28 Fir3fly wrote:oh god oh god. dont even get me started. all he needed was a banned from the facebook page.then it would've stoped and that would be it. and at any rate, what sort of mother makes a shitty facebook page in memoriam? thats more fucked up than what he did imo. this is honestly nothing but "hurr durr cyber bullies" if you guys think this is bad, you should've read some of the old archives of ED. (before it turned shithouse) some kid killed himself cause he lost his ipod = a bunch of people "hacked" into his myspace and made him the golden ipod award infront of all his friends and family. (its also where the phrase "an hero" came from) this is fucking pathetic and more proof of how the older people do not know about the younger technologies. we're literally in a fucked up time right now. and im going to end before i start up on freedom of speech. + Show Spoiler +hurr durr cant say how i feel cause i might hurt some retard's feelings :c :c :c :c what's your problem really? what he did was not merely a "troll", it was on another level of disrespect toward a dead person. Would you ever steps on the corpse of your dead grandfather? If you say yes, i have nothing more to say.
What he did was troll, the end. It happens thousands of times a day on the internet, from people without Aspergers, to a more severe extent. You could argue, "But murders happen every day too, we prosecute them!" Well, the thing is there are a thousand things you can do to prevent, lessen or completely circumvent this type of behavior, in addition to it being far less damaging than killing someone. But you know, you guys are right, who needs to stop drug trafficking, arms trafficking, gangs, murders, rapes, assaults, robberies, that money is much better spent stopping one kid with Aspergers from trolling on the internet when you could easily just ban him or realize how stupid it is to flip out over that. Or you could attempt to just have him locked from social networking, as per part of the sentence. In this case since we don't have the funds to prosecute everything (nor should we, but that's another debate) some things are mutually exclusive of one another and it's stupid as hell to be spending money on this when they just could have blocked him. Can we also ban them from the internet to save everyone some heartache and money?
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On September 14 2011 22:38 Holgerius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 22:26 hypnoxide wrote:On September 14 2011 22:24 Toadesstern wrote:take into consideration that this did not happen in the us guys... We all know you guys love freedom and most of you guys are more liberal than everyone else. However Insulting IS a crime in some places. I don't know what it's like in the us but reading this makes me think it isn't so I'm going to quote german law for example (cause I'm from ger). I know it did not happen in germany but I'm guessing we're not the only ones who got something like this in europe. First one is the german one, the second one is my rough translation: + Show Spoiler +§ 185 Beleidigung
Die Beleidigung wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu einem Jahr oder mit Geldstrafe und, wenn die Beleidigung mittels einer Tätlichkeit begangen wird, mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu zwei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft. § 185 Insultin
The act of Insulting is punished with (by?) prison sentence by up to one year or a fine. If this is happening as/with and act of violence it is punished with prison sentence by up to two years or a fine
So I don't see a problem here. It's not exactly common that those things get sued, dealt with or whatever you want to call it but I think it's perfectly fine. Basicly: If you're insulting for the purpose of insulting it's not ok. However, you obviously won't get sued if you call someone a bitch and even if it would happen, probably nothing would happen or you'd have to pay a fine. Never actually heard of someone going to jail for that kind of stuff. That's ridiculous. How do you define being insulted? Why does the law not apply if you are called a bitch? What if I'm insulted by that law and it's infringement on my right to free speech? I hope the German translation is a lot more specific or it's a rather empty law that's open to exploitation. So you suggest we shouldn't have laws against battery, because it might be hard to say where the line goes between nudging someone and actually beating someone? Laws are hard to define so that they're 100% clear and set in stone, and many of them are up to interpretation to a certain degree.
1. an unlawful application of force
2. to the person of another
3. resulting in either bodily injury or an offensive touching.
Laws are clear and set and stone otherwise they are poorly written. And FYI, if you don't get it, nudging someone accidentally is not offensive touching.
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On September 14 2011 22:37 hypnoxide wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 22:32 Toadesstern wrote:On September 14 2011 22:26 hypnoxide wrote:On September 14 2011 22:24 Toadesstern wrote:take into consideration that this did not happen in the us guys... We all know you guys love freedom and most of you guys are more liberal than everyone else. However Insulting IS a crime in some places. I don't know what it's like in the us but reading this makes me think it isn't so I'm going to quote german law for example (cause I'm from ger). I know it did not happen in germany but I'm guessing we're not the only ones who got something like this in europe. First one is the german one, the second one is my rough translation: + Show Spoiler +§ 185 Beleidigung
Die Beleidigung wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu einem Jahr oder mit Geldstrafe und, wenn die Beleidigung mittels einer Tätlichkeit begangen wird, mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu zwei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft. § 185 Insultin
The act of Insulting is punished with (by?) prison sentence by up to one year or a fine. If this is happening as/with and act of violence it is punished with prison sentence by up to two years or a fine
So I don't see a problem here. It's not exactly common that those things get sued, dealt with or whatever you want to call it but I think it's perfectly fine. Basicly: If you're insulting for the purpose of insulting it's not ok. However, you obviously won't get sued if you call someone a bitch and even if it would happen, probably nothing would happen or you'd have to pay a fine. Never actually heard of someone going to jail for that kind of stuff. That's ridiculous. How do you define being insulted? Why does the law not apply if you are called a bitch? What if I'm insulted by that law and it's infringement on my right to free speech? I hope the German translation is a lot more specific or it's a rather empty law that's open to exploitation. The law probably would apply if you are called a bitch, but noneone sues you for that kind of thing although you probably could do that. I don't know how it's defined and I just googled for "insultin + law" (in german) to get the right quote. Maybe theres another paragraph that's explaining that, like 185.1 or 185.a or whatever or it's just up to the judged I really don't know. The german part I quoted isn't explaining more than the english one I just did :p And I'm not trying to be an asshole or start a fight but as a German, how do you feel about that law and how do you feel about possibly being prosecuted for saying something that insults someone (with such a broad definition), leading to you facing jail time?
was about to make an edit to just add that and now I saw that so I'll just add it. Btw google translator isn't that bad actually, googles translation sound much more "english" than my german-english 
+ Show Spoiler +The offense is punished with imprisonment up to one year or a fine, and if the offense is committed by means of an assault, punishable by imprisonment up to two years or a fine.
My thoughts about it: I guess jail really overdid it and it's probably just there for real extrem cases( even more than this). So I guess I would appreciate a fine instead of jail but I think punishing him at all is ok.
On the law itself: For common usage it's probably stupid. I don't want to be sued just because I call someone a bitch. In my opinion it needs some addition that it's only applying in extrem cases.
Don't know if there are additions that explain when you can sue someone for insulting and when you can't.
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On September 14 2011 22:44 hypnoxide wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 22:38 Holgerius wrote:On September 14 2011 22:26 hypnoxide wrote:On September 14 2011 22:24 Toadesstern wrote:take into consideration that this did not happen in the us guys... We all know you guys love freedom and most of you guys are more liberal than everyone else. However Insulting IS a crime in some places. I don't know what it's like in the us but reading this makes me think it isn't so I'm going to quote german law for example (cause I'm from ger). I know it did not happen in germany but I'm guessing we're not the only ones who got something like this in europe. First one is the german one, the second one is my rough translation: + Show Spoiler +§ 185 Beleidigung
Die Beleidigung wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu einem Jahr oder mit Geldstrafe und, wenn die Beleidigung mittels einer Tätlichkeit begangen wird, mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu zwei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft. § 185 Insultin
The act of Insulting is punished with (by?) prison sentence by up to one year or a fine. If this is happening as/with and act of violence it is punished with prison sentence by up to two years or a fine
So I don't see a problem here. It's not exactly common that those things get sued, dealt with or whatever you want to call it but I think it's perfectly fine. Basicly: If you're insulting for the purpose of insulting it's not ok. However, you obviously won't get sued if you call someone a bitch and even if it would happen, probably nothing would happen or you'd have to pay a fine. Never actually heard of someone going to jail for that kind of stuff. That's ridiculous. How do you define being insulted? Why does the law not apply if you are called a bitch? What if I'm insulted by that law and it's infringement on my right to free speech? I hope the German translation is a lot more specific or it's a rather empty law that's open to exploitation. So you suggest we shouldn't have laws against battery, because it might be hard to say where the line goes between nudging someone and actually beating someone? Laws are hard to define so that they're 100% clear and set in stone, and many of them are up to interpretation to a certain degree. 1. an unlawful application of force 2. to the person of another 3. resulting in either bodily injury or an offensive touching. Laws are clear and set and stone otherwise they are poorly written. And FYI, if you don't get it, nudging someone accidentally is not offensive touching.
How is ''an offensive touching'' clearly defined? XD
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On September 14 2011 22:44 brachester wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 22:28 Fir3fly wrote:oh god oh god. dont even get me started. all he needed was a banned from the facebook page.then it would've stoped and that would be it. and at any rate, what sort of mother makes a shitty facebook page in memoriam? thats more fucked up than what he did imo. this is honestly nothing but "hurr durr cyber bullies" if you guys think this is bad, you should've read some of the old archives of ED. (before it turned shithouse) some kid killed himself cause he lost his ipod = a bunch of people "hacked" into his myspace and made him the golden ipod award infront of all his friends and family. (its also where the phrase "an hero" came from) this is fucking pathetic and more proof of how the older people do not know about the younger technologies. we're literally in a fucked up time right now. and im going to end before i start up on freedom of speech. + Show Spoiler +hurr durr cant say how i feel cause i might hurt some retard's feelings :c :c :c :c what's your problem really? what he did was not merely a "troll", it was on another level of disrespect toward a dead person. Would you ever steps on the corpse of your dead grandfather? If you say yes, i have nothing more to say.
I always have to laugh at this modern conception of "respect". Why are corpses and dead people venerated?
On September 14 2011 22:46 Holgerius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 22:44 hypnoxide wrote:On September 14 2011 22:38 Holgerius wrote:On September 14 2011 22:26 hypnoxide wrote:On September 14 2011 22:24 Toadesstern wrote:take into consideration that this did not happen in the us guys... We all know you guys love freedom and most of you guys are more liberal than everyone else. However Insulting IS a crime in some places. I don't know what it's like in the us but reading this makes me think it isn't so I'm going to quote german law for example (cause I'm from ger). I know it did not happen in germany but I'm guessing we're not the only ones who got something like this in europe. First one is the german one, the second one is my rough translation: + Show Spoiler +§ 185 Beleidigung
Die Beleidigung wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu einem Jahr oder mit Geldstrafe und, wenn die Beleidigung mittels einer Tätlichkeit begangen wird, mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu zwei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft. § 185 Insultin
The act of Insulting is punished with (by?) prison sentence by up to one year or a fine. If this is happening as/with and act of violence it is punished with prison sentence by up to two years or a fine
So I don't see a problem here. It's not exactly common that those things get sued, dealt with or whatever you want to call it but I think it's perfectly fine. Basicly: If you're insulting for the purpose of insulting it's not ok. However, you obviously won't get sued if you call someone a bitch and even if it would happen, probably nothing would happen or you'd have to pay a fine. Never actually heard of someone going to jail for that kind of stuff. That's ridiculous. How do you define being insulted? Why does the law not apply if you are called a bitch? What if I'm insulted by that law and it's infringement on my right to free speech? I hope the German translation is a lot more specific or it's a rather empty law that's open to exploitation. So you suggest we shouldn't have laws against battery, because it might be hard to say where the line goes between nudging someone and actually beating someone? Laws are hard to define so that they're 100% clear and set in stone, and many of them are up to interpretation to a certain degree. 1. an unlawful application of force 2. to the person of another 3. resulting in either bodily injury or an offensive touching. Laws are clear and set and stone otherwise they are poorly written. And FYI, if you don't get it, nudging someone accidentally is not offensive touching. How is ''an offensive touching'' clearly defined? XD
You're trying to be a smart ass and it's not really working out for you. Offensive touching is qualified by the preceding requirement "an unlawful application of force", ergo, offensive touching would be an unlawful application of force not resulting in bodily injury.
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wtf for jail?!?! and most people seem to totally support this decision.
i cant believe this, its just a video, just words. words shouldnt get you in prison. being a stupid asshole shouldnt declare you dangerous in public, specially when your just an asshole on the internet.
the idea behind jail was to lock people away which are dangerous. this is just redicoulus.
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On September 14 2011 22:46 hypnoxide wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 22:44 brachester wrote:On September 14 2011 22:28 Fir3fly wrote:oh god oh god. dont even get me started. all he needed was a banned from the facebook page.then it would've stoped and that would be it. and at any rate, what sort of mother makes a shitty facebook page in memoriam? thats more fucked up than what he did imo. this is honestly nothing but "hurr durr cyber bullies" if you guys think this is bad, you should've read some of the old archives of ED. (before it turned shithouse) some kid killed himself cause he lost his ipod = a bunch of people "hacked" into his myspace and made him the golden ipod award infront of all his friends and family. (its also where the phrase "an hero" came from) this is fucking pathetic and more proof of how the older people do not know about the younger technologies. we're literally in a fucked up time right now. and im going to end before i start up on freedom of speech. + Show Spoiler +hurr durr cant say how i feel cause i might hurt some retard's feelings :c :c :c :c what's your problem really? what he did was not merely a "troll", it was on another level of disrespect toward a dead person. Would you ever steps on the corpse of your dead grandfather? If you say yes, i have nothing more to say. I always have to laugh at this modern conception of "respect". Why are corpses and dead people venerated? Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 22:46 Holgerius wrote:On September 14 2011 22:44 hypnoxide wrote:On September 14 2011 22:38 Holgerius wrote:On September 14 2011 22:26 hypnoxide wrote:On September 14 2011 22:24 Toadesstern wrote:take into consideration that this did not happen in the us guys... We all know you guys love freedom and most of you guys are more liberal than everyone else. However Insulting IS a crime in some places. I don't know what it's like in the us but reading this makes me think it isn't so I'm going to quote german law for example (cause I'm from ger). I know it did not happen in germany but I'm guessing we're not the only ones who got something like this in europe. First one is the german one, the second one is my rough translation: + Show Spoiler +§ 185 Beleidigung
Die Beleidigung wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu einem Jahr oder mit Geldstrafe und, wenn die Beleidigung mittels einer Tätlichkeit begangen wird, mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu zwei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft. § 185 Insultin
The act of Insulting is punished with (by?) prison sentence by up to one year or a fine. If this is happening as/with and act of violence it is punished with prison sentence by up to two years or a fine
So I don't see a problem here. It's not exactly common that those things get sued, dealt with or whatever you want to call it but I think it's perfectly fine. Basicly: If you're insulting for the purpose of insulting it's not ok. However, you obviously won't get sued if you call someone a bitch and even if it would happen, probably nothing would happen or you'd have to pay a fine. Never actually heard of someone going to jail for that kind of stuff. That's ridiculous. How do you define being insulted? Why does the law not apply if you are called a bitch? What if I'm insulted by that law and it's infringement on my right to free speech? I hope the German translation is a lot more specific or it's a rather empty law that's open to exploitation. So you suggest we shouldn't have laws against battery, because it might be hard to say where the line goes between nudging someone and actually beating someone? Laws are hard to define so that they're 100% clear and set in stone, and many of them are up to interpretation to a certain degree. 1. an unlawful application of force 2. to the person of another 3. resulting in either bodily injury or an offensive touching. Laws are clear and set and stone otherwise they are poorly written. And FYI, if you don't get it, nudging someone accidentally is not offensive touching. How is ''an offensive touching'' clearly defined? XD You're trying to be a smart ass and it's not really working out for you. Offensive touching is qualified by the preceding requirement "an unlawful application of force", ergo, offensive touching would be an unlawful application of force not resulting in bodily injury.
And once again, how is ''unlawful application of force'' clearly defined? What amount of force does it take to reach the requirements?
It isn't as simple as you may think.
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On September 14 2011 22:31 hypnoxide wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 22:27 Deleuze wrote:On September 14 2011 22:02 hypnoxide wrote:On September 14 2011 21:51 Deleuze wrote:
This is utterly shocking, this is one sonuva bitch.
I wouldn't call him a troll though, I mean this in all seriousness, I think that's an insult to trolls.
Cyber bullying and harassment online is something totally different to being a troll.
Calling him a troll undermines exactly what it is he has done, a troll is some moron on a forum, not criminal bully/stalker harassing someone.
I think it's just the British media capitalising on a term that has just recently surfaced in to main stream dialogue.
RIP to the kids he mocked and wishes to the families and friends he harassed, there's no place for his behaviour in society and it is right that he has been excluded from participating in social media because he has proven how utterly unready he is to use it responsibly.
Although he does look like something I'd find under a bridge.
No, that'd be ignorant of you. This is originally what trolling was before all the kids came along and it turned into stupid shit like "This is my first game. LOLOL TROLLLED LOL TROLLED SO HARD LOL." or making up stupid ass stories and adding Bel Air or some retarded bullshit like Rickrolling. That's not trolling, it's stupid. Does anyone even get mad at that shit? Trolling used to get on the news. Now it's gay. I was under the impression that the term troll originated from usenet (?) where the l33t members of the community would 'troll for noobs' by raising topics that have been discussed repetively to catch out who was new to the forum? Anyone like to correct me? Two questions to you hypnoxide: 1) When was trolling on the news before? Source please, I'd genuinely like to know. 2) What/who is gay? youtube.com/128IR21ZQa0 is the first that comes to mind and I know I've seen several other DIFFERENT news stories on TV or articles in written media both in America and my own country. I don't think you're ignorant enough to truly believe this shit doesn't make the news when some retard and her equally retarded off-spring cry to anyone that'll listen about evil people on the internet. 2) If I say you, is that verbal harassment and can I face a reprimand for it? Stop trying to be a smart ass.
Um, would you mind mannering up please?
I read the papers and read the online news, of course there are regular stories of online harassment and bullying in the mass media, as well as the notorious SlayerS related cyberbullying discussed on TL - I am not disputing this. What I was hoping to discuss was the use of the term 'troll' to describe it.
As I said, I was aware that the term troll originated from forum use rather than outright harassment.
Thank you for the link. I will review this.
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A complete disgrace. Serves him right.
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On September 14 2011 22:53 Holgerius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 22:46 hypnoxide wrote:On September 14 2011 22:44 brachester wrote:On September 14 2011 22:28 Fir3fly wrote:oh god oh god. dont even get me started. all he needed was a banned from the facebook page.then it would've stoped and that would be it. and at any rate, what sort of mother makes a shitty facebook page in memoriam? thats more fucked up than what he did imo. this is honestly nothing but "hurr durr cyber bullies" if you guys think this is bad, you should've read some of the old archives of ED. (before it turned shithouse) some kid killed himself cause he lost his ipod = a bunch of people "hacked" into his myspace and made him the golden ipod award infront of all his friends and family. (its also where the phrase "an hero" came from) this is fucking pathetic and more proof of how the older people do not know about the younger technologies. we're literally in a fucked up time right now. and im going to end before i start up on freedom of speech. + Show Spoiler +hurr durr cant say how i feel cause i might hurt some retard's feelings :c :c :c :c what's your problem really? what he did was not merely a "troll", it was on another level of disrespect toward a dead person. Would you ever steps on the corpse of your dead grandfather? If you say yes, i have nothing more to say. I always have to laugh at this modern conception of "respect". Why are corpses and dead people venerated? On September 14 2011 22:46 Holgerius wrote:On September 14 2011 22:44 hypnoxide wrote:On September 14 2011 22:38 Holgerius wrote:On September 14 2011 22:26 hypnoxide wrote:On September 14 2011 22:24 Toadesstern wrote:take into consideration that this did not happen in the us guys... We all know you guys love freedom and most of you guys are more liberal than everyone else. However Insulting IS a crime in some places. I don't know what it's like in the us but reading this makes me think it isn't so I'm going to quote german law for example (cause I'm from ger). I know it did not happen in germany but I'm guessing we're not the only ones who got something like this in europe. First one is the german one, the second one is my rough translation: + Show Spoiler +§ 185 Beleidigung
Die Beleidigung wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu einem Jahr oder mit Geldstrafe und, wenn die Beleidigung mittels einer Tätlichkeit begangen wird, mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu zwei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft. § 185 Insultin
The act of Insulting is punished with (by?) prison sentence by up to one year or a fine. If this is happening as/with and act of violence it is punished with prison sentence by up to two years or a fine
So I don't see a problem here. It's not exactly common that those things get sued, dealt with or whatever you want to call it but I think it's perfectly fine. Basicly: If you're insulting for the purpose of insulting it's not ok. However, you obviously won't get sued if you call someone a bitch and even if it would happen, probably nothing would happen or you'd have to pay a fine. Never actually heard of someone going to jail for that kind of stuff. That's ridiculous. How do you define being insulted? Why does the law not apply if you are called a bitch? What if I'm insulted by that law and it's infringement on my right to free speech? I hope the German translation is a lot more specific or it's a rather empty law that's open to exploitation. So you suggest we shouldn't have laws against battery, because it might be hard to say where the line goes between nudging someone and actually beating someone? Laws are hard to define so that they're 100% clear and set in stone, and many of them are up to interpretation to a certain degree. 1. an unlawful application of force 2. to the person of another 3. resulting in either bodily injury or an offensive touching. Laws are clear and set and stone otherwise they are poorly written. And FYI, if you don't get it, nudging someone accidentally is not offensive touching. How is ''an offensive touching'' clearly defined? XD You're trying to be a smart ass and it's not really working out for you. Offensive touching is qualified by the preceding requirement "an unlawful application of force", ergo, offensive touching would be an unlawful application of force not resulting in bodily injury. And once again, how is ''unlawful application of force'' clearly defined? What amount of force does it take to reach the requirements? It isn't as simple as you may think.
Just for you: http://www.ehow.com/about_5477305_unlawful-use-force.html
It really is simple. Generally you need a reason to use force, otherwise it's unlawful, and the severity of force also has to be reasonable (I can't attack you with a bat if you stand on my lawn if simply asking you to move on would work), otherwise it's unlawful.
EDIT: Lol, I actually read the article and I pretty much repeat what it says about unlawful force.
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I think I met this guy while playing League of Legends. And his countless clones, too. People these days....
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On September 14 2011 22:28 Cain0 wrote:
He's a fat little dwarf. He's probably just trying to make himself feel better by hurting others.
Also, 4 months isn't enough for what he did, I think it should be more like a year.
im offended by your comment, i want you to go to jail for a year,
i was left in shock and almost in tears from it.
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On September 14 2011 22:46 hypnoxide wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 22:44 brachester wrote:On September 14 2011 22:28 Fir3fly wrote:oh god oh god. dont even get me started. all he needed was a banned from the facebook page.then it would've stoped and that would be it. and at any rate, what sort of mother makes a shitty facebook page in memoriam? thats more fucked up than what he did imo. this is honestly nothing but "hurr durr cyber bullies" if you guys think this is bad, you should've read some of the old archives of ED. (before it turned shithouse) some kid killed himself cause he lost his ipod = a bunch of people "hacked" into his myspace and made him the golden ipod award infront of all his friends and family. (its also where the phrase "an hero" came from) this is fucking pathetic and more proof of how the older people do not know about the younger technologies. we're literally in a fucked up time right now. and im going to end before i start up on freedom of speech. + Show Spoiler +hurr durr cant say how i feel cause i might hurt some retard's feelings :c :c :c :c what's your problem really? what he did was not merely a "troll", it was on another level of disrespect toward a dead person. Would you ever steps on the corpse of your dead grandfather? If you say yes, i have nothing more to say. I always have to laugh at this modern conception of "respect". Why are corpses and dead people venerated? Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 22:46 Holgerius wrote:On September 14 2011 22:44 hypnoxide wrote:On September 14 2011 22:38 Holgerius wrote:On September 14 2011 22:26 hypnoxide wrote:On September 14 2011 22:24 Toadesstern wrote:take into consideration that this did not happen in the us guys... We all know you guys love freedom and most of you guys are more liberal than everyone else. However Insulting IS a crime in some places. I don't know what it's like in the us but reading this makes me think it isn't so I'm going to quote german law for example (cause I'm from ger). I know it did not happen in germany but I'm guessing we're not the only ones who got something like this in europe. First one is the german one, the second one is my rough translation: + Show Spoiler +§ 185 Beleidigung
Die Beleidigung wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu einem Jahr oder mit Geldstrafe und, wenn die Beleidigung mittels einer Tätlichkeit begangen wird, mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu zwei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft. § 185 Insultin
The act of Insulting is punished with (by?) prison sentence by up to one year or a fine. If this is happening as/with and act of violence it is punished with prison sentence by up to two years or a fine
So I don't see a problem here. It's not exactly common that those things get sued, dealt with or whatever you want to call it but I think it's perfectly fine. Basicly: If you're insulting for the purpose of insulting it's not ok. However, you obviously won't get sued if you call someone a bitch and even if it would happen, probably nothing would happen or you'd have to pay a fine. Never actually heard of someone going to jail for that kind of stuff. That's ridiculous. How do you define being insulted? Why does the law not apply if you are called a bitch? What if I'm insulted by that law and it's infringement on my right to free speech? I hope the German translation is a lot more specific or it's a rather empty law that's open to exploitation. So you suggest we shouldn't have laws against battery, because it might be hard to say where the line goes between nudging someone and actually beating someone? Laws are hard to define so that they're 100% clear and set in stone, and many of them are up to interpretation to a certain degree. 1. an unlawful application of force 2. to the person of another 3. resulting in either bodily injury or an offensive touching. Laws are clear and set and stone otherwise they are poorly written. And FYI, if you don't get it, nudging someone accidentally is not offensive touching. How is ''an offensive touching'' clearly defined? XD You're trying to be a smart ass and it's not really working out for you. Offensive touching is qualified by the preceding requirement "an unlawful application of force", ergo, offensive touching would be an unlawful application of force not resulting in bodily injury.
your response makes me lose hope in humanity
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To all those above who say "So? This is the internet, this happens all the time. Get used to it":
Get. A. Fucking. Life.
Seriously.
If you are so far disconnected from reality that you think that there should be no action taken against someone who repeatedly and intentionally seeks out grieving family members to insult them, then you really, seriously need to turn off the computer more often to interact with the real world.
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Internet anonymity issues? Not really, considering I think this kid was dumb enough to use his REAL fb account with his personal information. Then again, nobody knows the truth about fb's privacy policy.
Btw, 4chan has done this too, and without any punishment either, from Nikki Catsouras to Mitchell Henderson, but nobody was ever caught/charged with anything.
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On September 14 2011 22:41 brachester wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 22:38 deth2munkies wrote:
I guess it's England so I'm not as concerned, but I do find it odd that the government has the power to ban you from social networking sites. The fact they suddenly have the right to define what you do in your spare time and where you can go on the internet (in more specifics, not broad internet censorship, that's another topic) is somewhat unsettling.
The guy's a douche, but he deserved to have his ass kicked, not legal trouble. Opens too many doors for me to be comfortable with. it depends on each government policies and their definition of what the internet is, in some country, like sweden they think that it is everyone rights to be able to use internet, that's why they have free internet.
In America, it's still an open issue. I think restraining orders have been broadened to include stuff like facebook stalking, but I have never heard of a ban from "social networking sites", which is hugely vague in its own right.
Is TL a "social networking site"? I can talk to other people, plan meetings, upload photos and videos, etc. That goes for every single website that has even a prefab forum or comment bar. Is Youtube "social networking"? Broad strokes here could be just bad for everyone, not just this asshole.
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On September 14 2011 22:38 deth2munkies wrote:
I guess it's England so I'm not as concerned, but I do find it odd that the government has the power to ban you from social networking sites. The fact they suddenly have the right to define what you do in your spare time and where you can go on the internet (in more specifics, not broad internet censorship, that's another topic) is somewhat unsettling.
Think of it as a restraining order. There's no reason why the internet should be controlled any differently from public grounds.
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On September 14 2011 22:46 hypnoxide wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 22:44 brachester wrote:On September 14 2011 22:28 Fir3fly wrote:oh god oh god. dont even get me started. all he needed was a banned from the facebook page.then it would've stoped and that would be it. and at any rate, what sort of mother makes a shitty facebook page in memoriam? thats more fucked up than what he did imo. this is honestly nothing but "hurr durr cyber bullies" if you guys think this is bad, you should've read some of the old archives of ED. (before it turned shithouse) some kid killed himself cause he lost his ipod = a bunch of people "hacked" into his myspace and made him the golden ipod award infront of all his friends and family. (its also where the phrase "an hero" came from) this is fucking pathetic and more proof of how the older people do not know about the younger technologies. we're literally in a fucked up time right now. and im going to end before i start up on freedom of speech. + Show Spoiler +hurr durr cant say how i feel cause i might hurt some retard's feelings :c :c :c :c what's your problem really? what he did was not merely a "troll", it was on another level of disrespect toward a dead person. Would you ever steps on the corpse of your dead grandfather? If you say yes, i have nothing more to say. I always have to laugh at this modern conception of "respect". Why are corpses and dead people venerated? Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 22:46 Holgerius wrote:On September 14 2011 22:44 hypnoxide wrote:On September 14 2011 22:38 Holgerius wrote:On September 14 2011 22:26 hypnoxide wrote:On September 14 2011 22:24 Toadesstern wrote:take into consideration that this did not happen in the us guys... We all know you guys love freedom and most of you guys are more liberal than everyone else. However Insulting IS a crime in some places. I don't know what it's like in the us but reading this makes me think it isn't so I'm going to quote german law for example (cause I'm from ger). I know it did not happen in germany but I'm guessing we're not the only ones who got something like this in europe. First one is the german one, the second one is my rough translation: + Show Spoiler +§ 185 Beleidigung
Die Beleidigung wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu einem Jahr oder mit Geldstrafe und, wenn die Beleidigung mittels einer Tätlichkeit begangen wird, mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu zwei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft. § 185 Insultin
The act of Insulting is punished with (by?) prison sentence by up to one year or a fine. If this is happening as/with and act of violence it is punished with prison sentence by up to two years or a fine
So I don't see a problem here. It's not exactly common that those things get sued, dealt with or whatever you want to call it but I think it's perfectly fine. Basicly: If you're insulting for the purpose of insulting it's not ok. However, you obviously won't get sued if you call someone a bitch and even if it would happen, probably nothing would happen or you'd have to pay a fine. Never actually heard of someone going to jail for that kind of stuff. That's ridiculous. How do you define being insulted? Why does the law not apply if you are called a bitch? What if I'm insulted by that law and it's infringement on my right to free speech? I hope the German translation is a lot more specific or it's a rather empty law that's open to exploitation. So you suggest we shouldn't have laws against battery, because it might be hard to say where the line goes between nudging someone and actually beating someone? Laws are hard to define so that they're 100% clear and set in stone, and many of them are up to interpretation to a certain degree. 1. an unlawful application of force 2. to the person of another 3. resulting in either bodily injury or an offensive touching. Laws are clear and set and stone otherwise they are poorly written. And FYI, if you don't get it, nudging someone accidentally is not offensive touching. How is ''an offensive touching'' clearly defined? XD You're trying to be a smart ass and it's not really working out for you. Offensive touching is qualified by the preceding requirement "an unlawful application of force", ergo, offensive touching would be an unlawful application of force not resulting in bodily injury.
Also respect is another fundamental thing that you need to know in life, you could got to jail for disrespecting the court you know? so why not going to jail by disrespecting dead people?
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On September 14 2011 23:05 brachester wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 22:46 hypnoxide wrote:On September 14 2011 22:44 brachester wrote:On September 14 2011 22:28 Fir3fly wrote:oh god oh god. dont even get me started. all he needed was a banned from the facebook page.then it would've stoped and that would be it. and at any rate, what sort of mother makes a shitty facebook page in memoriam? thats more fucked up than what he did imo. this is honestly nothing but "hurr durr cyber bullies" if you guys think this is bad, you should've read some of the old archives of ED. (before it turned shithouse) some kid killed himself cause he lost his ipod = a bunch of people "hacked" into his myspace and made him the golden ipod award infront of all his friends and family. (its also where the phrase "an hero" came from) this is fucking pathetic and more proof of how the older people do not know about the younger technologies. we're literally in a fucked up time right now. and im going to end before i start up on freedom of speech. + Show Spoiler +hurr durr cant say how i feel cause i might hurt some retard's feelings :c :c :c :c what's your problem really? what he did was not merely a "troll", it was on another level of disrespect toward a dead person. Would you ever steps on the corpse of your dead grandfather? If you say yes, i have nothing more to say. I always have to laugh at this modern conception of "respect". Why are corpses and dead people venerated? On September 14 2011 22:46 Holgerius wrote:On September 14 2011 22:44 hypnoxide wrote:On September 14 2011 22:38 Holgerius wrote:On September 14 2011 22:26 hypnoxide wrote:On September 14 2011 22:24 Toadesstern wrote:take into consideration that this did not happen in the us guys... We all know you guys love freedom and most of you guys are more liberal than everyone else. However Insulting IS a crime in some places. I don't know what it's like in the us but reading this makes me think it isn't so I'm going to quote german law for example (cause I'm from ger). I know it did not happen in germany but I'm guessing we're not the only ones who got something like this in europe. First one is the german one, the second one is my rough translation: + Show Spoiler +§ 185 Beleidigung
Die Beleidigung wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu einem Jahr oder mit Geldstrafe und, wenn die Beleidigung mittels einer Tätlichkeit begangen wird, mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu zwei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft. § 185 Insultin
The act of Insulting is punished with (by?) prison sentence by up to one year or a fine. If this is happening as/with and act of violence it is punished with prison sentence by up to two years or a fine
So I don't see a problem here. It's not exactly common that those things get sued, dealt with or whatever you want to call it but I think it's perfectly fine. Basicly: If you're insulting for the purpose of insulting it's not ok. However, you obviously won't get sued if you call someone a bitch and even if it would happen, probably nothing would happen or you'd have to pay a fine. Never actually heard of someone going to jail for that kind of stuff. That's ridiculous. How do you define being insulted? Why does the law not apply if you are called a bitch? What if I'm insulted by that law and it's infringement on my right to free speech? I hope the German translation is a lot more specific or it's a rather empty law that's open to exploitation. So you suggest we shouldn't have laws against battery, because it might be hard to say where the line goes between nudging someone and actually beating someone? Laws are hard to define so that they're 100% clear and set in stone, and many of them are up to interpretation to a certain degree. 1. an unlawful application of force 2. to the person of another 3. resulting in either bodily injury or an offensive touching. Laws are clear and set and stone otherwise they are poorly written. And FYI, if you don't get it, nudging someone accidentally is not offensive touching. How is ''an offensive touching'' clearly defined? XD You're trying to be a smart ass and it's not really working out for you. Offensive touching is qualified by the preceding requirement "an unlawful application of force", ergo, offensive touching would be an unlawful application of force not resulting in bodily injury. your response makes me lose hope in humanity
I like how you clearly define why you feel that way. It lets me know your opinion is of worth. Nowadays the word "respect" is thrown around too often and people expect it to be automatically given instead of earned.
On September 14 2011 23:07 brachester wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 22:46 hypnoxide wrote:On September 14 2011 22:44 brachester wrote:On September 14 2011 22:28 Fir3fly wrote:oh god oh god. dont even get me started. all he needed was a banned from the facebook page.then it would've stoped and that would be it. and at any rate, what sort of mother makes a shitty facebook page in memoriam? thats more fucked up than what he did imo. this is honestly nothing but "hurr durr cyber bullies" if you guys think this is bad, you should've read some of the old archives of ED. (before it turned shithouse) some kid killed himself cause he lost his ipod = a bunch of people "hacked" into his myspace and made him the golden ipod award infront of all his friends and family. (its also where the phrase "an hero" came from) this is fucking pathetic and more proof of how the older people do not know about the younger technologies. we're literally in a fucked up time right now. and im going to end before i start up on freedom of speech. + Show Spoiler +hurr durr cant say how i feel cause i might hurt some retard's feelings :c :c :c :c what's your problem really? what he did was not merely a "troll", it was on another level of disrespect toward a dead person. Would you ever steps on the corpse of your dead grandfather? If you say yes, i have nothing more to say. I always have to laugh at this modern conception of "respect". Why are corpses and dead people venerated? On September 14 2011 22:46 Holgerius wrote:On September 14 2011 22:44 hypnoxide wrote:On September 14 2011 22:38 Holgerius wrote:On September 14 2011 22:26 hypnoxide wrote:On September 14 2011 22:24 Toadesstern wrote:take into consideration that this did not happen in the us guys... We all know you guys love freedom and most of you guys are more liberal than everyone else. However Insulting IS a crime in some places. I don't know what it's like in the us but reading this makes me think it isn't so I'm going to quote german law for example (cause I'm from ger). I know it did not happen in germany but I'm guessing we're not the only ones who got something like this in europe. First one is the german one, the second one is my rough translation: + Show Spoiler +§ 185 Beleidigung
Die Beleidigung wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu einem Jahr oder mit Geldstrafe und, wenn die Beleidigung mittels einer Tätlichkeit begangen wird, mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu zwei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft. § 185 Insultin
The act of Insulting is punished with (by?) prison sentence by up to one year or a fine. If this is happening as/with and act of violence it is punished with prison sentence by up to two years or a fine
So I don't see a problem here. It's not exactly common that those things get sued, dealt with or whatever you want to call it but I think it's perfectly fine. Basicly: If you're insulting for the purpose of insulting it's not ok. However, you obviously won't get sued if you call someone a bitch and even if it would happen, probably nothing would happen or you'd have to pay a fine. Never actually heard of someone going to jail for that kind of stuff. That's ridiculous. How do you define being insulted? Why does the law not apply if you are called a bitch? What if I'm insulted by that law and it's infringement on my right to free speech? I hope the German translation is a lot more specific or it's a rather empty law that's open to exploitation. So you suggest we shouldn't have laws against battery, because it might be hard to say where the line goes between nudging someone and actually beating someone? Laws are hard to define so that they're 100% clear and set in stone, and many of them are up to interpretation to a certain degree. 1. an unlawful application of force 2. to the person of another 3. resulting in either bodily injury or an offensive touching. Laws are clear and set and stone otherwise they are poorly written. And FYI, if you don't get it, nudging someone accidentally is not offensive touching. How is ''an offensive touching'' clearly defined? XD You're trying to be a smart ass and it's not really working out for you. Offensive touching is qualified by the preceding requirement "an unlawful application of force", ergo, offensive touching would be an unlawful application of force not resulting in bodily injury. Also respect is another fundamental thing that you need to know in life, you could got to jail for disrespecting the court you know? so why not going to jail by disrespecting dead people?
You can face jail for contempt because you're disrupting and mocking an institution in place to keep order in society, it is to be taken seriously. Contempt for a dead person disrupts no one. Depending upon your ideas about life and death it may not even be serious.
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On September 14 2011 22:44 HereticSaint wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 22:33 krews wrote:On September 14 2011 22:24 ElPeque.fogata wrote:On September 14 2011 22:03 Chargelot wrote:On September 14 2011 21:53 ElPeque.fogata wrote:On September 14 2011 21:36 arbitrageur wrote:On September 14 2011 21:33 ElPeque.fogata wrote:
he is an asshole.
but what the fuck. just close his account and be done with it.
jail? wtf Your solution is not well thought out. The guy can make another account, or go to an internet cafe and do it there. So be it, close the new account. as it happens with hackers on battle.net. And go to privacy settings and dissalow him from contacting you or whatever. Ignore him, then it is not fun anymore and he moves on. There are so many trolls because trolled people are usually pretty retarded dealing with it. Jail for insulting? You take freedom away from being verbaly offensive? Oh yeah, we are much more human than him. Verbal offense is a very fuzzy area. Will you include making fun of religion? God damnit we live in a fascist world. There is the left, the right, but in the end we are all fascists. In all fairness, he didn't challenge the laws, or the right of the state to prosecute him. He pleaded guilty. If he didn't, it would have been just worse for him. Yet, so what? He probably knows unless he is just too crazy he is "guilty" of being an absolute asshole. The question is wether it makes any sense sending somebody to jail just for being an asshole and making someone else feel bad. If i cheat on my girlfriend and then leave her for her best friend and tell her i couldn't stand being with a girl with such a fat ass, and so then she commits suicide because of it, should i be sent to jail? There is no doubt i would be an absolute asshole and caused a huge ammount of pain, but should i be sent to jail? people are making the dumbest comparisons ive ever seen. how is downloading music and breaking up with your girlfriend comparable to making fun of a dead girl to her mother? seriously? a·nal·o·gy noun /əˈnaləjē/ analogies, plural 1. A comparison between two things, typically on the basis of their structure and for the purpose of explanation or clarification * - an analogy between the workings of nature and those of human societies * - he interprets logical functions by analogy with machines 2. A correspondence or partial similarity
He knows what an analogy is, friend. The fact is that it's a fucking terrible analogy.
If you break up with your girlfriend and tell her the reason why once, and she then runs off and kills herself, you are not responsible for her death. On the other hand, to more readily establish the proper analogy, if you break up with your girlfriend by verbally abusing the shit out of her, accosting her for all her faults, spend the next few weeks showing up at her house/work/favourite places so that you can harass her about how terrible a person she is/how ugly you now find her, go out of your way to put yourself and the new girlfriend in front of her to increase her discomfort, write letters to her friends to tell them how shit she is in bed, etc etc.... then you would have the intent to harass and cause harm through your actions. That is what this guy did.
This is not just being an asshole. This is a concerted effort to harass and evoke specific reactions. To cause apprehension, discomfort and pain. It can and does result in psychological harm. THIS IS A CRIMINAL OFFENCE IN THEIR JURISDICTION. And is in many others (such as my own).
Freedom of speech is not absolute. It has not been for centuries. It is not a shield for dickheads to hide behind when they commit criminal offences. Prime example: Threat to kill. A threat to kill can be just words too. But they are words which for centuries have been prohibited. Want further examples?
s474.17
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/claoaoma22004729/sch1.html
Further, it would appear that there were other uncharged acts present on his indictment which the presiding judge was required, and indeed requested by defence counsel, to take into account. This is not some sort of shithead behaviour in isolation.
Although, as a defence lawyer myself, there was a part of that article which seemed rather nonsensical to me..
"Duffy's lawyer Lance Whiteford said: "In terms of mitigation there is none. I cannot imagine the trauma and anxiety caused to the families of these horrible, despicable offences."
She said his condition meant he was not aware of the effect he was having on his victims."
If his condition affects his perception of the consequences of his offending, then typically that would be a mitigatory factor...
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