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On November 21 2011 00:17 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 00:09 Pewt wrote:On November 20 2011 22:46 Robinsa wrote:On November 20 2011 08:13 Pewt wrote:On November 20 2011 00:22 Simberto wrote:
We don't really do a lot of fair fighting anyways, we just use our navy to lock the enemy army down and besiege stuff they can't even reach, so Military Drill is indeed not that important in my opinion. Actually, i took Pressgangs as our first NI for exactly that reason, but someone has changed it sometime afterwards. People have a really confusing aversion to naval NIs and obsession with Military Drill; I've even seen MP games where none of England, Castille, and Portugal had Press Gangs, and all of them had Military Drill! I guess people don't really understand that given the massive logistical advantage from Press Gangs and Seahawks you can take scattered provinces, which not only makes it nearly impossible for a land power to threaten you but also allows you to take the best provinces without having to take the random crap between them. Imo Military Drill is the most powerful NI for almost all nations in the early stages of the game for any warring. Id even as far as to say its imbalanced. Pressgangs is pretty good for a limited number of naval nations like portugal (if theyre friends with Castille), Venice and possibly Denmark etc. Id say England would lose to Scotland if Scotland went for Military Drill and England for pressgangs. Thats proboably the reason why they go Military Drill first. Thats what I think at least, Im no expert tho  Having around 40% more morale doesn't help when you can only get to one or two of your opponents' provinces. Obviously you should take Military Drill as Austria or France, but taking it over Press Gangs as England or Portugal is pretty dumb. Also, whether or not you're friends with Castille shouldn't enter into the equation as Portugal, since Military Drill won't save you from an untimely demise if Castille wants to kill you. Well, as England i actually could accept it. If i remember correctly, the Navy you start the game with is gigantic, and able to beat everyone else for a long time, so you don't immediately need to expand it, while Scotland can be dangerous if you are somehow occupied elsewhere. Plus it allows you to project force onto the continent much easier, as long as you can keep Naval superiority. It also allows you to safe quite some money by turning your maintenance lower in peacetimes, and still have the same amount of moral. However, our situation is fundamentally different. We need to fight for Naval superiority, and if we ever lose it, we lose the war instantly, no matter whom we fight. Our lands are a bunch of spread out islands, and an army will not defend that.
Hence why I advise Press Gangs over Military Drill...
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I took over in the year of 1472. We was at peace, with 3 loans and 3 inflation, a decent army and navy.
I decided that I would focus on getting those loans paid off and the inflation down and see if I could get some vassal's in northern Italy.
1 month went by and this message came to me:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0gwWV.jpg)
Ottoman, the Mamluks and Syria had declared war on our vassal and we had to defend it, I feared the worst.
I sent my armies to defend Athens and at the same time to conquer Syria and Mamluks, both 2 provinces.
The Mamluks was quickly defeated:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1OqfC.jpg)
and we took them as our vassals.
War was not going so well in Athens, our armies was outnumbered 3 to 1.
Then we got another declaration of war:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Ta4al.jpg)
Aragon and Morea declared war on us!
The Mamluks joined the fight on our side and Syria was soon conquered as well. In Greece it went a little less well:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MfEIh.jpg)
The Ottomans was besieging Athens and our vassal Janina, while we were besieging Morea.
Soon Syria fell, was taken in as vassal as well and our army there could go to Italy and fight Aragon:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BH2oL.jpg)
Holy War was called upon The Ottomans and when the Teutonic Order, Bohemia and all of their vassals attack Ottoman we got offered a white peace and got it:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wfJzz.jpg)
The Timurids then attacked us -.-
With The Ottoman, Syria and Mamluks out of the fight, 2 of them even on our side and Morea nearly beaten, we could focus on Aragon in Italy. In a few short fights and because we had a bigger navy we got a peace deal:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/roVkJ.jpg)
Morea as vassal and white peace with Aragon.
After this triple front war staring out grim and ending great for us I decided to sit back for a while.
Nearly 10 years went by when suddenly a personal union with Venice was achieved without me doing anything:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NsYfK.jpg)
Austria did not like that though and decided they wanted Venice for them self:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NMIVG.jpg)
Austria was fighting Bohemia and Hungary at the time and they could not reach us by land or sea so I was not that concerned.
We got a white peace rather fast.
I then went to war with Tuscany, Mantau and Urbino and made them all our vassals.
After that I tried to get our economy better. All 3 loans where paid off and inflation went down to 2.5.
Some rather bad events that gave 3 inflation came to me 3 times and it went up to 10 -.-
Status at the end of my turn:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eBJ34.jpg)
Economy is rather good, many vassals means great income. No loans, master of the mint and national bank means that the inflation can go down to 0 fast if that is what the next in line focuses on.
We got an alliance with France, as you can see from the picture and most of Italy is under our control now.
The Mamluks got many provinces back because of rebels, so they have gone from 2 to 7 provinces and might prove useful to us.
Europe at the end of my turn:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fwaXg.jpg)
Hesse went from 12-15 provinces to 2 :p
Hansa conquered most of Denmark.
Castille lost a lot of wars, with Aragon winning them.
Austria is our biggest enemies, they got Transylvania, Hungary and Tyrol as vassal and looks like they will take Milan and Switzerland soon as well. They are not Emperor any more though.
England is big, soon to be great Britain.
The Ottoman is weak! We can easily take take them on with our vassals at our side.
2 goals/things that the next in line could focus on would be:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ekn01.png)
Rhodos, the Ottoman conquered them and we can easily take on the Ottomans. We cannot let our brothers on Rhodos be hostages to the savage Ottomans and it would align with our goal as a Mediterranean navy power.
Or:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HZR5b.jpg)
We can properly easily get Milan, Liguria and Modena as vassals if that is what we focus on and then forming Italy is within sight.
In my time we got
Sidon province north of Judea.
The Mamluks, Syria, Morea, Tuscany, Urbino and Mantau as vassals.
Venice in a personaly union.
Got cores on Gaza and Judea.
Paid of 3 loans.
Inflation raised to 10 
France alliance
Lost all other Alliances
Also we are half a year from the next national idea, I would recommend Press Gang or maybe Military Drill
Save game:
http://www.mediafire.com/?d39u4f8plyma32y
Silvanei next in line!
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Pictures aren't working for me.
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Weird, they're there alright. If you click the [image loading] they come right up.
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Fixed, a little error in the code :p
Save game coming up!
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Also, I don't think you can form Italy with Sicily, no?
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We can, the national decision was there, just needed cored provinces
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Next in Line is Silvanel, please claim your spot.
How can we even get a Personal Union with Venice, shouldn't they be a merchant republic? Also, were they not our enemy for most of this game? Someone must have married them. If i get the chance between Inflation and anything else, i usually choose whatever else it is. 3 Inflation could be sooo much money for us. Nice load of Vassals, we are slowly evolving into a great power.
I agree, with Naval Superiority it should be easy to beat up the Ottomans, just wait for them to be on one side of the strait, park our Navy in the middle, and take the other side. We can use Holy War on them, right? That Timurid Situation seems to have resolved itself when i look at the map at the end, they appear to be in the process of collapsing. Which is good, Horde neighbours are annoying. France looks scary.
However, the most important question is: Will Bohemia reach China?
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Venice got annex and released by Milan I think it was :p
Timurids was never a big problem, just annoying.
Ottoman can defiantly be beaten, France fucked them up pretty bad, we alone can muster a larger army than they and our vassals combined army would be close to the Ottomans as well :p
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I love reading these things! Great job so far everyone and keep the awesomeness rolling.
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Bohemia looking pretty big, but I think they'll go farther east and just fight hordes until they end up fighting Ming. Just don't piss Bohemia off :p
France, however, is the most dangerous country I think. Given that it's completely formed so early, either it just LOLs all over the Iberian peninsula or expands east towards Italy and the HRE, neither option would be great for you :X
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The scariest thing about them is that they are already in the balkans area, and might decide to Holy War the Ottomans and stealing Greece from us. It is our divine birthright to rule that land, it belonged to us since ancient times. Especially Rhodes, though. If it is mediterranean, it's ours.
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by the looks of the map earlier france conquered a tiny part of italy earlier and lost it? that would mean they have already had italian ambition and completed it. which should keep us mostly safe
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France currently own Ferrara
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On November 21 2011 08:43 Ramong wrote:
France currently own Ferrara
It's weird, in games I play, France only really declares war on countries they border and Britain, so I think it's fairly dangerous having France as a neighbor in that case :X
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Currently we are France' only ally, got great relations and they got military access.
Also France got provinces close to Austria and the Ottomans, so unless we do something stupid I doubt we should fear them right now
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Another thing i just noticed: There are usurpers on the Aragonian Throne. I was shocked that family would declare war on us, but after i investigated a bit, i noticed that apparently some strange "Folc de Cardona" guys took over the country while noone was watching. In my opinion, that is not something we should simply accept. Otherwise in a few years, there will be "Folc de Cardona"s everywhere. Maybe we should reclaim that throne at some point in the future?
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I will start playing as soon as i will be back fro university (about 6 hours).
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Oh shiite!! good job everyone  this is turning out a very entertaining aar imo. i would recommend we keep sucking up to france as much as we possibly can, no matter what shit they drag us into; they are our best bet to fight the HRE. Personally i think more crusading would fit the aar and sicily, but aiming for italy would probably bring us the most power!
edit: union with venice is beyond whacky, they are supposed to be a merchant republic for christs sake them getting released and then union event for us is just soo unlikely that just for the novelty it feels really really juicy.
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Sick turn imo. I can´t belive we got the Mamluks as vassals lol ? Shouldnt they be stronger than we are? 
Also, how did we get a personal union with venice ? Thats really strange. Good job tho.
I think we need to be careful if were going to fight Milan since theyre neighbous with Austria and I dont see us doing too good in a war against them at the moment. On the other hand, I guess forming Italy is cool. :D
On November 21 2011 02:40 Pewt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 00:17 Simberto wrote:On November 21 2011 00:09 Pewt wrote:On November 20 2011 22:46 Robinsa wrote:On November 20 2011 08:13 Pewt wrote:On November 20 2011 00:22 Simberto wrote:
We don't really do a lot of fair fighting anyways, we just use our navy to lock the enemy army down and besiege stuff they can't even reach, so Military Drill is indeed not that important in my opinion. Actually, i took Pressgangs as our first NI for exactly that reason, but someone has changed it sometime afterwards. People have a really confusing aversion to naval NIs and obsession with Military Drill; I've even seen MP games where none of England, Castille, and Portugal had Press Gangs, and all of them had Military Drill! I guess people don't really understand that given the massive logistical advantage from Press Gangs and Seahawks you can take scattered provinces, which not only makes it nearly impossible for a land power to threaten you but also allows you to take the best provinces without having to take the random crap between them. Imo Military Drill is the most powerful NI for almost all nations in the early stages of the game for any warring. Id even as far as to say its imbalanced. Pressgangs is pretty good for a limited number of naval nations like portugal (if theyre friends with Castille), Venice and possibly Denmark etc. Id say England would lose to Scotland if Scotland went for Military Drill and England for pressgangs. Thats proboably the reason why they go Military Drill first. Thats what I think at least, Im no expert tho Having around 40% more morale doesn't help when you can only get to one or two of your opponents' provinces. Obviously you should take Military Drill as Austria or France, but taking it over Press Gangs as England or Portugal is pretty dumb. Also, whether or not you're friends with Castille shouldn't enter into the equation as Portugal, since Military Drill won't save you from an untimely demise if Castille wants to kill you. Well, as England i actually could accept it. If i remember correctly, the Navy you start the game with is gigantic, and able to beat everyone else for a long time, so you don't immediately need to expand it, while Scotland can be dangerous if you are somehow occupied elsewhere. Plus it allows you to project force onto the continent much easier, as long as you can keep Naval superiority. It also allows you to safe quite some money by turning your maintenance lower in peacetimes, and still have the same amount of moral. However, our situation is fundamentally different. We need to fight for Naval superiority, and if we ever lose it, we lose the war instantly, no matter whom we fight. Our lands are a bunch of spread out islands, and an army will not defend that. Hence why I advise Press Gangs over Military Drill...
Well both me and Simberto said that we thught pressgangs would be best in our original posts before you asked "I dont see why so many people like Military drill". Thats what brought about the our posts after that..
On November 21 2011 08:29 Omsomsoms wrote:
Bohemia looking pretty big, but I think they'll go farther east and just fight hordes until they end up fighting Ming. Just don't piss Bohemia off :p
France, however, is the most dangerous country I think. Given that it's completely formed so early, either it just LOLs all over the Iberian peninsula or expands east towards Italy and the HRE, neither option would be great for you :X
Yes. France is super dangerous due to their rich provinces and the fact that they always pick military drill + the 50%+ manpower NI that I cant remember the name of.:D
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EPT
