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Say something intelligent! - Page 6

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Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
September 22 2004 06:44 GMT
#101
On September 20 2004 17:43 XvObiVx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2004 09:10 SickofLife wrote:
Evolution, nor Creationism are theories, they are beliefs. A theory can be scientifcally proven; however, neither of the previously mentioned can be proven.


Wow, have you taken biology yet? Really, in 9th grade I learned this. Evolution, whether you like it or not, has been proven. When you read about Charles Darwin, and his finches in particular, you learn that evolution has taken place.

Evolution occurred when a bird species was isolated to a group of islands. These islands would have different kinds of seeds to feed off of, and if those nuts were walnuts, the birds with the most powerful and largest beaks would get food the easiest. Thus, small beaked birds would die out, leaving the birds with the largest beaks.

And it'd go on for generations, where the genes for large beaks would be brought together again and again. So they had evolved from a normal-sized beak to a larger.



Its a theory as it HASNT been proven fully. Thats why its a theory which has a lot of evidence to support it but its not fully proved. There are still many gaps that need to be filled in before it becomes a Law.
Never Knows Best.
Veigh
Profile Joined November 2003
Netherlands300 Posts
September 22 2004 06:49 GMT
#102
It's all just a matter of definition what a 'theory' is.
If you think that a theory is something that is absolutely, 100% sure, you're stupid.
In fact, by definition there can't be a theory that is logically 100% correct. You can always come with some silly 'what if'-question.
Theories always have some falsifiability (the what-if-question) attached to them, that's what makes them scientifically accepted. The more falsifiable a theory is, the more aspects it has, that you can test, deepen out and clarify.
It's easy to see that the evolution theory has more aspects about which something can be said then the creation theory, so the evo-theory is more scientifically then the creation theory for sure.

With creationist theory, the problem is, there is hardly any aspect that a critic can test, check or criticize. The answer is always: you gotta believe in it. But evolutionists try to convince with explanations, with tests and with maleorderbride's silly calcium skeletons. Now that's what you call proof and that's what makes it a theory
Mirror matchups are imbalanced by definition
Veigh
Profile Joined November 2003
Netherlands300 Posts
September 22 2004 06:52 GMT
#103
Hehe Slaughter, nice post-crossing

BTW, the natural-law subject is something that isn't without problems either, but I think this is already enough intellectual chitchat for mr. SickofLife
Mirror matchups are imbalanced by definition
STIMEY d okgm fish
Profile Joined August 2003
Canada6140 Posts
September 22 2004 06:57 GMT
#104
erm. a law predicts.. it doesnt explain. the theory is the explanation. evolution happens. evolutionary theory tries to explain how it happens and predict/model how it works etc. the theory changes all the time. there's diff theories on small points here and there etc........
Maynard
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States889 Posts
September 22 2004 06:59 GMT
#105
In the United States one can grow up a bum and become president.
Servolisk
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
United States5241 Posts
September 22 2004 07:02 GMT
#106
On September 22 2004 14:22 maleorderbride wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2004 12:21 ahk-gosu wrote:
On September 20 2004 01:15 Malmis wrote:
"Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven."



pshh not true. whoever made this quote is going to hell.
and no he isnt going to rule hell


I really really hope that was a joke. The fucking devil said that, loosely translated, in the bible. Non servitum. Literally I will not serve, but that is the origins of that phrase.


*It was in a story by Dante (inferno?), not the bible, I'm pretty sure.
wtf was that signature
Gandalf
Profile Joined August 2004
Pakistan1905 Posts
September 22 2004 07:02 GMT
#107
On September 20 2004 09:10 SickofLife wrote:
Evolution, nor Creationism are theories, they are beliefs. A theory can be scientifcally proven; however, neither of the previously mentioned can be proven.

"Military intelligence... two words combined that can't make sense." - Dave Mustaine (Hangar 18)


What have you been reading my friend? Probably nothing.

Evolution is the process by which a certain species changes over time. Man didnt always walk erect, we have PROOF of that in discovered skeletons, but now we DO walk erect. Thats a change. We have EVOLVED from walking with bent backs to walking with straight ones. Thats PROOF of evolution.

And only one of thousands. If you were to pick up some books, you would see COUNTLESS examples and proofs of evolution.

Evolution is not a belief, it is a scientific fact that has been proven beyond doubt. Read some books my friend, before you start making statements that make no sense.
eternalbliss
Profile Joined August 2004
United States1035 Posts
September 22 2004 07:05 GMT
#108
hey maynard, where are you from?
Gandalf
Profile Joined August 2004
Pakistan1905 Posts
September 22 2004 07:07 GMT
#109
A hypothesis is a "guess" made. It becomes a theory when sufficient proof has been provided. A theory is NOT a best guess, its much more than that. A theory, essentially, will hold true in nearly all cases unless specifically proven otherwise. To simplify:

Guess = Hypothesis
You work on it, prove it = Theory
Law = You work on the theory enough to show it has NO exceptions

So a theory, for the most part, will be true, unlees its an EXCEPTION we're considering. To call it a "best guess" is just plain dumb. The guy who gave the example of the finches was right.
SChasu
Profile Joined October 2003
United States1505 Posts
September 22 2004 07:08 GMT
#110
hey gandalf u been watching apes.... we never "evolved" from anything
totalbiscuit is awful at casting.
Gandalf
Profile Joined August 2004
Pakistan1905 Posts
September 22 2004 07:12 GMT
#111
On September 22 2004 15:44 Slaughter)BiO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2004 17:43 XvObiVx wrote:
On September 20 2004 09:10 SickofLife wrote:
Evolution, nor Creationism are theories, they are beliefs. A theory can be scientifcally proven; however, neither of the previously mentioned can be proven.


Wow, have you taken biology yet? Really, in 9th grade I learned this. Evolution, whether you like it or not, has been proven. When you read about Charles Darwin, and his finches in particular, you learn that evolution has taken place.

Evolution occurred when a bird species was isolated to a group of islands. These islands would have different kinds of seeds to feed off of, and if those nuts were walnuts, the birds with the most powerful and largest beaks would get food the easiest. Thus, small beaked birds would die out, leaving the birds with the largest beaks.

And it'd go on for generations, where the genes for large beaks would be brought together again and again. So they had evolved from a normal-sized beak to a larger.



Its a theory as it HASNT been proven fully. Thats why its a theory which has a lot of evidence to support it but its not fully proved. There are still many gaps that need to be filled in before it becomes a Law.




The line between laws and theories isnt that sharp. You'll find laws will have exceptions too.

It will be IMPOSSIBLE to elevate the theory of evolution to the status of a law. Why? Because to do so, we will have to prove the working of the evolutionary theory in ALL evolution. Something that has been going on since the first glimmer of life on this planet. Is it really possible to prove the evolution of EVERY SINGLE species this planet has EVER seen? Of course not! Even on earth TODAY, we are not familiar with all the species of life. Which is why it will always remain a theory.
Veigh
Profile Joined November 2003
Netherlands300 Posts
September 22 2004 07:15 GMT
#112
On September 22 2004 16:07 Gandalf wrote:
A hypothesis is a "guess" made. It becomes a theory when sufficient proof has been provided. A theory is NOT a best guess, its much more than that. A theory, essentially, will hold true in nearly all cases unless specifically proven otherwise. To simplify:

Guess = Hypothesis
You work on it, prove it = Theory
Law = You work on the theory enough to show it has NO exceptions

So a theory, for the most part, will be true, unlees its an EXCEPTION we're considering. To call it a "best guess" is just plain dumb. The guy who gave the example of the finches was right.


But Gandalf, of course you know that a law only works in a specific scientific framework. Because, after a law has been established, more and more problems will arise with that law will appear, after a while they will become to big to keep the law believable.
At that moment, the whole framework will collapse, there is a state of hyper-science, and after a while, everything will be settled and answered within a new timeframe. That's why we aren't completely Galilean and Newtonian anymore

mmm, maybe a bit offtopic this whole story, I'd better go to bed
Mirror matchups are imbalanced by definition
Gandalf
Profile Joined August 2004
Pakistan1905 Posts
September 22 2004 07:17 GMT
#113
On September 22 2004 16:08 SS-guy wrote:
hey gandalf u been watching apes.... we never "evolved" from anything


Theres essentially two different schools of thought.

One, that we evolved from ape like ancestors. Enough proof of this has been found to at least warrant a theory.

Two, that we were created as is, or the "religious" school of thought.

We're not here to discuss which is right and which is wrong, but rather the falsability or the provability of either.

So yes, it IS possible we evolved from apes, there is enough scientific data to at least warrant that assumption.

What have you been watching? Dexter? Your ape like intelligence provides further proof.
Gandalf
Profile Joined August 2004
Pakistan1905 Posts
September 22 2004 07:20 GMT
#114
On September 22 2004 16:15 Veigh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2004 16:07 Gandalf wrote:
A hypothesis is a "guess" made. It becomes a theory when sufficient proof has been provided. A theory is NOT a best guess, its much more than that. A theory, essentially, will hold true in nearly all cases unless specifically proven otherwise. To simplify:

Guess = Hypothesis
You work on it, prove it = Theory
Law = You work on the theory enough to show it has NO exceptions

So a theory, for the most part, will be true, unlees its an EXCEPTION we're considering. To call it a "best guess" is just plain dumb. The guy who gave the example of the finches was right.


But Gandalf, of course you know that a law only works in a specific scientific framework. Because, after a law has been established, more and more problems will arise with that law will appear, after a while they will become to big to keep the law believable.
At that moment, the whole framework will collapse, there is a state of hyper-science, and after a while, everything will be settled and answered within a new timeframe. That's why we aren't completely Galilean and Newtonian anymore

mmm, maybe a bit offtopic this whole story, I'd better go to bed


I was going to state something similar, but you beat me to it.

You're right, its infinitely difficult and tricky to elevate something to the level of law, simply because of the improbablity that EVERYTHING has been checked and proven. What if, the day after, a new objection were to be raise? Would we then revert it to theory status? And keep this conversion/reversion going on?

Which is why the word that sticks to the side of a concept, either "theory" or "law", should not be delved into too deeply. We need to comprehend the mechanics of any theory or law, and use our own intelligence to derive conclusions.
Veigh
Profile Joined November 2003
Netherlands300 Posts
September 22 2004 07:27 GMT
#115
True, I never liked logic and methodology anyway
Mirror matchups are imbalanced by definition
Oceans
Profile Joined June 2004
Canada284 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-09-22 08:02:50
September 22 2004 08:02 GMT
#116
i just thought of this during media arts class

"Pop. culture is the way that media molds society to be what it is today."
Again
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