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[IEM] New York Discussion - Page 57
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Icysoul
Canada254 Posts
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DarkRise
1644 Posts
I think TSM's Chaox+Xpecial are the best bottom laner. Reginaid either play godly or get shut down early game. Rainman is a good top laner with a lot of champions on his armory but somewhat get loss in team fights sometimes. They just started a team house so let's expect better games from them in the future | ||
overt
United States9006 Posts
TSM is far too reliant on Reginald imo. If he does well his team wins and if he doesn't they usually lose. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 14 2011 14:48 overt wrote: To be fair, most of the top teams junglers play a more support role. Jatt and saint are more the exceptions and I think their style is actually superior so I wouldn't be surprised if OddOne and other junglers pick up on it and start playing like that. TSM is far too reliant on Reginald imo. If he does well his team wins and if he doesn't they usually lose. People keep saying stuff like "Saint and Jatt play junglers as carries" etc, like they just magically get that farm by themselves. It's not just the jungler's decision. It has to do with team-comps and how the team plays. No matter how well a jungler plays his jungle, he's not going to get carry-level farm just from farming jungle. The farm has to come from somewhere, and that means it has to come off the laners. CLG makes supportive solo picks that can give up farm (e.g. Galio), so they can support giving farm to Saint (even when they can't, Elementz mentioned in his post about CLG's issues that Chauster has trouble getting farm midgame sometimes as AD because Saint and Hotshot hog farm more than they should sometimes). Saint and Jatt don't get carry-level farm just because they choose to. It's a team-level decision on how to split farm among the lanes and jungle (e.g. Jatt farms top while top comes down to gank for mid/bot), and the team needs to get used to playing that style, not just the jungler. | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On October 14 2011 14:19 DarkRise wrote: To be honest TSM need a better jungler someone like Jatt or SV. They play like "carry" from the jungle while oddone play like a support. His ganks are so so and his jungle path is predictable.SV even comment on oddone's jungling in his stream and point out all his habit and jungle paths. So funny because he is soooo right since i always watch TSM scrims and their games in different tourney. He was good back in the day when counter jungle was strong. I think TSM's Chaox+Xpecial are the best bottom laner. Reginaid either play godly or get shut down early game. Rainman is a good top laner with a lot of champions on his armory but somewhat get loss in team fights sometimes. They just started a team house so let's expect better games from them in the future Rainman has like 2 champs that he can play proficiently. I've never seen him really win his lane. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On October 14 2011 14:19 DarkRise wrote: To be honest TSM need a better jungler someone like Jatt or SV. They play like "carry" from the jungle while oddone play like a support. His ganks are so so and his jungle path is predictable.SV even comment on oddone's jungling in his stream and point out all his habit and jungle paths. So funny because he is soooo right since i always watch TSM scrims and their games in different tourney. He was good back in the day when counter jungle was strong. I think TSM's Chaox+Xpecial are the best bottom laner. Reginaid either play godly or get shut down early game. Rainman is a good top laner with a lot of champions on his armory but somewhat get loss in team fights sometimes. They just started a team house so let's expect better games from them in the future Honestly, I feel like Rainman's the weakest link in TSM. He can play a lot of solo top champs, but he's only really amazing with a few of them. I mean, his claim to fame was rank 1 teemo, not exactly bruisers. TOO is a great counterjungler, but ever since Nunu got nerfed and the strong carry-type junglers got popular he just isn't as game-changing a force as he used to be. He's still an amazing jungler, but the stuff he does for TSM is much more subtle and under the radar than what SV or Jatt does. | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
oh snap in the part where he solo initiated on the whole enemy team, and then his team comes to mop it up after he falls. hmm that kinda reminds me a lot of their scrims I've seens on his stream, shushei has a plan and the team first watches him die then goes to finish the fight, just because ^_^ | ||
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ihasaKAROT
Netherlands4730 Posts
I was surprised with Fnatic, what a great synergy they have | ||
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Ota Solgryn
Denmark2011 Posts
On October 14 2011 10:06 TheYango wrote: I'm not sure how I feel about that. Because if you ban Kog, and the other team grabs Cait, you either have to play Vayne vs Cait (which is an uphill battle), or try something with the less-common AD carries, which may not be as reliable, depending on the support picks. With Kog, in the pool, you can expect 1 side to pick Kog, the other to pick Cait, and have a reasonable laning phase, with the team that got Cait trying to pick something aggressive to anti-carry Kog. If anything, I'm surprised at teams leaving Zilean up AND THEN giving up Kog after the other team already got Zilean. Either ban Zilean, or don't leave Kog in the pool after they FP him. Trying to anti-carry past Zilean is too much of a nightmare. Why is cait so strong in top elo?. In my elo (1600) she never seems that strong and I mostly rapes her with Ashe etc. I understand alot of different "rules" apply to high level, but could anyone explain? | ||
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Gooey
United States944 Posts
On October 14 2011 16:26 Ota Solgryn wrote: Why is cait so strong in top elo?. In my elo (1600) she never seems that strong and I mostly rapes her with Ashe etc. I understand alot of different "rules" apply to high level, but could anyone explain? Her range and abilities give her great lane control and make her hard to gank early game. It is really hard to stop a cait from farming up to her first 140 or so creep, which lets her get T3 items really quick. The traps can be used to zone enemies to your advantage, as well as providing vision. She combos really well with the likes of taric and alistar, because they offer a stun and heal to hold targets in place. This can also lead to cool aggressive moves, like coordinating with taric to stun a target and instantly place a trap underneath them, causing a 4 second stun. It's also just nice for holding them in place to get a clear peacemaker shot off. Her damage scales well into the late game with her passive, piltover pokes, and ulti, so she doesn't fall off. Her net is a great escape tool, providing both a slow and the knockback to re-position her. With positioning being the most important part of playing an AD carry, this is very helpful. She is just an overall solid range AD that is well rounded for damage, utility, escape, and poke. Kogma has GREAT damage, good poke, and good utility with his slow and vision from ulti, but no escape. Vayne has great damage, utility, escape, but no poke. Ezreal has great poke, great escape, good damage, but no utility. Cait sort of takes what is good from all of these common picks and does them all, but toned down a little. | ||
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locodoco
Korea (South)1615 Posts
On October 14 2011 17:03 Gooey wrote: Her range and abilities give her great lane control and make her hard to gank early game. It is really hard to stop a cait from farming up to her first 140 or so creep, which lets her get T3 items really quick. The traps can be used to zone enemies to your advantage, as well as providing vision. She combos really well with the likes of taric and alistar, because they offer a stun and heal to hold targets in place. This can also lead to cool aggressive moves, like coordinating with taric to stun a target and instantly place a trap underneath them, causing a 4 second stun. It's also just nice for holding them in place to get a clear peacemaker shot off. Her damage scales well into the late game with her passive, piltover pokes, and ulti, so she doesn't fall off. Her net is a great escape tool, providing both a slow and the knockback to re-position her. With positioning being the most important part of playing an AD carry, this is very helpful. She is just an overall solid range AD that is well rounded for damage, utility, escape, and poke. Kogma has GREAT damage, good poke, and good utility with his slow and vision from ulti, but no escape. Vayne has great damage, utility, escape, but no poke. Ezreal has great poke, great escape, good damage, but no utility. Cait sort of takes what is good from all of these common picks and does them all, but toned down a little. very nicely put | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
Not asking for details descriptions of the game. Just a paragraph on tempo of the game (who lead in kills/gold), team objectives, and outstanding team fights. PM me if you're interested. Thanks. | ||
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
On October 14 2011 14:19 DarkRise wrote: To be honest TSM need a better jungler someone like Jatt or SV. They play like "carry" from the jungle while oddone play like a support. His ganks are so so and his jungle path is predictable.SV even comment on oddone's jungling in his stream and point out all his habit and jungle paths. So funny because he is soooo right since i always watch TSM scrims and their games in different tourney. He was good back in the day when counter jungle was strong. I think TSM's Chaox+Xpecial are the best bottom laner. Reginaid either play godly or get shut down early game. Rainman is a good top laner with a lot of champions on his armory but somewhat get loss in team fights sometimes. They just started a team house so let's expect better games from them in the future I want that SV commentary video. | ||
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LoCicero
1100 Posts
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SHr3DD3r
Pakistan2137 Posts
On October 14 2011 20:22 LoCicero wrote: Sad to see the Dig losses, they're all real cool guys and I would much rather see them win than any other team to be honest. Some of the players on CLG and TSM are just... -_- It would be great if you could conduct a form of an interview with them regarding this. Their thoughts/insights etc. Obv after your interview and if you get time. <<<33333 | ||
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Abenson
Canada4122 Posts
On October 14 2011 20:22 LoCicero wrote: Sad to see the Dig losses, they're all real cool guys and I would much rather see them win than any other team to be honest. Some of the players on CLG and TSM are just... -_- D: Loci when you gonna get a team? It would be really nice to see you play in major tournaments :3 | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 14 2011 16:19 ihasaKAROT wrote: I agree with the above. TheOddOne needs to improve his jungleselection and Rainman needs to step up his game if he can. Hes a good player but hes just not good enough to play at this level I feel sometimes. Its the little things he does wrong like just be slightly ahead of his team with Sion in game1. He got caught several times with his pants (shield) down, stunned and focussed in a few seconds. Sion is a great champ when played correctly, rainman made me feel bad for the lumberjack at some point :// I was surprised with Fnatic, what a great synergy they have ? TOO is one of the more flexible junglers in terms of what he can play reasonably. He and Saint have shown themselves capable of playing pretty much anything (other than Amumu--seeing as both of them hate playing Amumu). As I mentioned before, it's not just on TheOddOne to get farm as a jungler--he can't magically make farm appear out of nowhere--any non-jungle farm has to come out of minions that would otherwise go to a laner. If anything, the burden is partly on TheRainMan and Reginald to create situations where TheOddOne gets to farm a lane while they gank (they've done this some in scrims, but don't seem to be able to translate it into play at events). Dignitas in particular is great at coordinating these sorts of situations, which is why Jatt is able to get such respectable farm. | ||
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br0fivE
Canada349 Posts
baiting to cho (hsgg) then taking down towers I thought they were going to lose at the start but they came back in a commanding lead, very well done! EDIT: oh yea, voyboys renetkon early game was so good, made me want to pick rene up | ||
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Goshawk.
United Kingdom5338 Posts
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
Lapaka on stream with Phreak | ||
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