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On December 22 2011 12:28 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 12:23 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 22 2011 12:22 LSB wrote:On December 22 2011 12:21 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 22 2011 12:18 LSB wrote:On December 22 2011 12:16 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 22 2011 12:14 LSB wrote:On December 22 2011 12:12 wherebugsgo wrote:
Oh I should mention, GM is clear if LSB is scum.
So we lynch LSB. If LSB is town GM is not clear and we make him shoot. You are completely ignoring the possibility of a bus. Which is one of my favorite mafia plays. See Harry Potter Mafia. Just saying, your plan is flawed. Follow mine. someone tell me what the fuck that is if that isn't claiming scum? No I'm saying your idea is stupid because 1) Even if I flip it promotes no resolution on GM. 2) It completely ignores the fact that there might be two vigs 3) It automatically assumes that I am town The only good thing your idea does is waste a town KP. Which surprisingly is very favorable to the mafia. that's not a bus! a bus is one scum killing another scum, his teammate. So why are you telling me I'm ignoring the possibility of a bus? The only way your wagon can be a bus is if you are scum and at least one or more of the people on your wagon is scum. that still isn't answering any of the flaws. Basically what you are doing is sticking your thumbs in your ears and going "I can't hear you I can't hear you" I'll flip green, and you'll pass it off as "oh LSB played bad" rather than realizing how stupid of a play it is to let me die. why do you keep avoiding the question? You essentially just claimed scum by saying I'm ignoring the possibility of a bus. Fuck that, you're dying for sure now. Lol, just saying, didn't you say that I'm SK? Due to a quote endquote scumslip? All I am saying is that it doesn't matter how you put it, your idea is bad even if I am mafia. And of course, it is even worse if I'm town
no, I did not call you SK. Ever.
That was you claiming I called you SK. And Palmar being stubborn.
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On December 21 2011 10:09 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 10:05 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 21 2011 10:03 LSB wrote:
Sure it's the longest post in the thread, but I don't understand why a post saying "LSB said there is probably an SK, HE IS SK KILL HIM" is the best post in the thread.
Here, don't try to say this is a misunderstanding. Really? This is what I said? Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 05:32 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 21 2011 01:52 LSB wrote:On December 20 2011 19:15 Chezinu wrote:On December 20 2011 19:04 SamuelLJackson wrote:
Yes it is.
Chezinu played just fine as Town in Personality, enough to make him a night 1 shot. IIRC he was playing fine in Closed Casket as Town as well.
The one game I remember him nonstop trolling and posting nothing but nonsense was LSB's game where he was 3rd party SK and claimed it day 1. Yeah it's early in day 1 and most people haven't even posted yet which is why I said if this is just some random nonsensical idea from him as Town then the onus is on him to start actually playing the game. Listen Jack, Town doesn't know the roles. Mafia does. What does this mean? If you have a crazy role to play, the mafia knows this. The town doesn't. However! There are some black roles out there and quite a few.. them mafia don't know about them except for that traitor other there. Here we are day 1 and it is so dark you might as well call it night and its going to be a long night for many of us are going to die. It bound to come up. Role claiming. As much as I would love to claim a bank, I'm not. If people claim blue the mafia can spot lying townies. or lying blues claiming to be other blues.. oh wait.. thats a great idea! How about I act like a blue role claiming to be a different blue role to make the mafia think I'm a green or black claiming blue? yeah thats good. Ok guys. I got the nazi role.. if your grammar is so bad, I cna kills yous! But watch out, if you correct someone's grammar in the thread. There may be a role that is hunting them grammar nazis.. Ver is trying to turn us into professionals. Its his secret plan. so type dull proper structured formal long writings guys! oh and don't forget to have fun adhering to these rules to avoid certain deaths.. but don't forget you still have to deal with the lynches. Just knowing the roles doesn't mean anything. I can tell you there is probably a cop, doc, sk, vig, ect ect. What does that help you with? Night actions I guess. There is a big difference between knowing who has who's role, and just knowing the list of roles. For example, if we knew that there was a traitor, we wouldn't do much. However if we knew that Chez was the traitor, that would be an easy day 1 lynch. Logically, this sounds okay, particularly the second part about how if we know that Chezinu is traitor, we could lynch him. However, check out the highlighted thing he finds probable; SK. How do you know there is "probably" an SK LSB? Sure, I suppose if you assume this is a standardish game you might reasonably be able to get away with saying there's a cop, a doc, and a vig. But an SK? That's fishy as hell. Now it might be true that we probably can't do much with just the information that a traitor exists. But if we know an SK exists, that's huge. Indeed, this is the one role that you DEFINITELY would like to know merely about the existence of. There's a massive difference between knowing there's an SK and knowing there isn't. That knowledge is powerful in the hands of town because we know that we can potentially pit scum and SK against each other, or that we have an extra scum to look for, basically. You wouldn't suggest that an SK is probable unless you already had that information. I bolded the important part to you. Note, mafia is given only some/all of the blue roles.
Reposting because it is relevant and I like to watch my post count go up
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Final reads before I call it a night.
Gmarshall: Green, but I still think he should shoot someone tonight
wherebugsgo: I haven't played with him much, but I don't think his mafia play can be thaat good. So I'm going Townish.
Mr. Wiggles:Red.
SamuelLJackson: Redish
Liquid'Sheth: Grey. I would not say he is townie just because he supported me. Anyone unvoting me this late in the game should be suspect
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On December 22 2011 12:51 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 10:09 LSB wrote:On December 21 2011 10:05 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 21 2011 10:03 LSB wrote:
Sure it's the longest post in the thread, but I don't understand why a post saying "LSB said there is probably an SK, HE IS SK KILL HIM" is the best post in the thread.
Here, don't try to say this is a misunderstanding. Really? This is what I said? On December 21 2011 05:32 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 21 2011 01:52 LSB wrote:On December 20 2011 19:15 Chezinu wrote:On December 20 2011 19:04 SamuelLJackson wrote:
Yes it is.
Chezinu played just fine as Town in Personality, enough to make him a night 1 shot. IIRC he was playing fine in Closed Casket as Town as well.
The one game I remember him nonstop trolling and posting nothing but nonsense was LSB's game where he was 3rd party SK and claimed it day 1. Yeah it's early in day 1 and most people haven't even posted yet which is why I said if this is just some random nonsensical idea from him as Town then the onus is on him to start actually playing the game. Listen Jack, Town doesn't know the roles. Mafia does. What does this mean? If you have a crazy role to play, the mafia knows this. The town doesn't. However! There are some black roles out there and quite a few.. them mafia don't know about them except for that traitor other there. Here we are day 1 and it is so dark you might as well call it night and its going to be a long night for many of us are going to die. It bound to come up. Role claiming. As much as I would love to claim a bank, I'm not. If people claim blue the mafia can spot lying townies. or lying blues claiming to be other blues.. oh wait.. thats a great idea! How about I act like a blue role claiming to be a different blue role to make the mafia think I'm a green or black claiming blue? yeah thats good. Ok guys. I got the nazi role.. if your grammar is so bad, I cna kills yous! But watch out, if you correct someone's grammar in the thread. There may be a role that is hunting them grammar nazis.. Ver is trying to turn us into professionals. Its his secret plan. so type dull proper structured formal long writings guys! oh and don't forget to have fun adhering to these rules to avoid certain deaths.. but don't forget you still have to deal with the lynches. Just knowing the roles doesn't mean anything. I can tell you there is probably a cop, doc, sk, vig, ect ect. What does that help you with? Night actions I guess. There is a big difference between knowing who has who's role, and just knowing the list of roles. For example, if we knew that there was a traitor, we wouldn't do much. However if we knew that Chez was the traitor, that would be an easy day 1 lynch. Logically, this sounds okay, particularly the second part about how if we know that Chezinu is traitor, we could lynch him. However, check out the highlighted thing he finds probable; SK. How do you know there is "probably" an SK LSB? Sure, I suppose if you assume this is a standardish game you might reasonably be able to get away with saying there's a cop, a doc, and a vig. But an SK? That's fishy as hell. Now it might be true that we probably can't do much with just the information that a traitor exists. But if we know an SK exists, that's huge. Indeed, this is the one role that you DEFINITELY would like to know merely about the existence of. There's a massive difference between knowing there's an SK and knowing there isn't. That knowledge is powerful in the hands of town because we know that we can potentially pit scum and SK against each other, or that we have an extra scum to look for, basically. You wouldn't suggest that an SK is probable unless you already had that information. I bolded the important part to you. Note, mafia is given only some/all of the blue roles. Reposting because it is relevant and I like to watch my post count go up
And this:
On December 21 2011 10:11 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 10:09 LSB wrote:On December 21 2011 10:05 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 21 2011 10:03 LSB wrote:
Sure it's the longest post in the thread, but I don't understand why a post saying "LSB said there is probably an SK, HE IS SK KILL HIM" is the best post in the thread.
Here, don't try to say this is a misunderstanding. Really? This is what I said? On December 21 2011 05:32 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 21 2011 01:52 LSB wrote:On December 20 2011 19:15 Chezinu wrote:On December 20 2011 19:04 SamuelLJackson wrote:
Yes it is.
Chezinu played just fine as Town in Personality, enough to make him a night 1 shot. IIRC he was playing fine in Closed Casket as Town as well.
The one game I remember him nonstop trolling and posting nothing but nonsense was LSB's game where he was 3rd party SK and claimed it day 1. Yeah it's early in day 1 and most people haven't even posted yet which is why I said if this is just some random nonsensical idea from him as Town then the onus is on him to start actually playing the game. Listen Jack, Town doesn't know the roles. Mafia does. What does this mean? If you have a crazy role to play, the mafia knows this. The town doesn't. However! There are some black roles out there and quite a few.. them mafia don't know about them except for that traitor other there. Here we are day 1 and it is so dark you might as well call it night and its going to be a long night for many of us are going to die. It bound to come up. Role claiming. As much as I would love to claim a bank, I'm not. If people claim blue the mafia can spot lying townies. or lying blues claiming to be other blues.. oh wait.. thats a great idea! How about I act like a blue role claiming to be a different blue role to make the mafia think I'm a green or black claiming blue? yeah thats good. Ok guys. I got the nazi role.. if your grammar is so bad, I cna kills yous! But watch out, if you correct someone's grammar in the thread. There may be a role that is hunting them grammar nazis.. Ver is trying to turn us into professionals. Its his secret plan. so type dull proper structured formal long writings guys! oh and don't forget to have fun adhering to these rules to avoid certain deaths.. but don't forget you still have to deal with the lynches. Just knowing the roles doesn't mean anything. I can tell you there is probably a cop, doc, sk, vig, ect ect. What does that help you with? Night actions I guess. There is a big difference between knowing who has who's role, and just knowing the list of roles. For example, if we knew that there was a traitor, we wouldn't do much. However if we knew that Chez was the traitor, that would be an easy day 1 lynch. Logically, this sounds okay, particularly the second part about how if we know that Chezinu is traitor, we could lynch him. However, check out the highlighted thing he finds probable; SK. How do you know there is "probably" an SK LSB? Sure, I suppose if you assume this is a standardish game you might reasonably be able to get away with saying there's a cop, a doc, and a vig. But an SK? That's fishy as hell. Now it might be true that we probably can't do much with just the information that a traitor exists. But if we know an SK exists, that's huge. Indeed, this is the one role that you DEFINITELY would like to know merely about the existence of. There's a massive difference between knowing there's an SK and knowing there isn't. That knowledge is powerful in the hands of town because we know that we can potentially pit scum and SK against each other, or that we have an extra scum to look for, basically. You wouldn't suggest that an SK is probable unless you already had that information. I bolded the important part to you. Note, mafia is given only some/all of the blue roles. Okay, that's a good point. However, let's clarify to make sure! Would the mafia team be notified if there is a serial killer or other third party present in the game?
On December 21 2011 13:08 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 10:11 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 21 2011 10:09 LSB wrote:On December 21 2011 10:05 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 21 2011 10:03 LSB wrote:
Sure it's the longest post in the thread, but I don't understand why a post saying "LSB said there is probably an SK, HE IS SK KILL HIM" is the best post in the thread.
Here, don't try to say this is a misunderstanding. Really? This is what I said? On December 21 2011 05:32 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 21 2011 01:52 LSB wrote:On December 20 2011 19:15 Chezinu wrote:On December 20 2011 19:04 SamuelLJackson wrote:
Yes it is.
Chezinu played just fine as Town in Personality, enough to make him a night 1 shot. IIRC he was playing fine in Closed Casket as Town as well.
The one game I remember him nonstop trolling and posting nothing but nonsense was LSB's game where he was 3rd party SK and claimed it day 1. Yeah it's early in day 1 and most people haven't even posted yet which is why I said if this is just some random nonsensical idea from him as Town then the onus is on him to start actually playing the game. Listen Jack, Town doesn't know the roles. Mafia does. What does this mean? If you have a crazy role to play, the mafia knows this. The town doesn't. However! There are some black roles out there and quite a few.. them mafia don't know about them except for that traitor other there. Here we are day 1 and it is so dark you might as well call it night and its going to be a long night for many of us are going to die. It bound to come up. Role claiming. As much as I would love to claim a bank, I'm not. If people claim blue the mafia can spot lying townies. or lying blues claiming to be other blues.. oh wait.. thats a great idea! How about I act like a blue role claiming to be a different blue role to make the mafia think I'm a green or black claiming blue? yeah thats good. Ok guys. I got the nazi role.. if your grammar is so bad, I cna kills yous! But watch out, if you correct someone's grammar in the thread. There may be a role that is hunting them grammar nazis.. Ver is trying to turn us into professionals. Its his secret plan. so type dull proper structured formal long writings guys! oh and don't forget to have fun adhering to these rules to avoid certain deaths.. but don't forget you still have to deal with the lynches. Just knowing the roles doesn't mean anything. I can tell you there is probably a cop, doc, sk, vig, ect ect. What does that help you with? Night actions I guess. There is a big difference between knowing who has who's role, and just knowing the list of roles. For example, if we knew that there was a traitor, we wouldn't do much. However if we knew that Chez was the traitor, that would be an easy day 1 lynch. Logically, this sounds okay, particularly the second part about how if we know that Chezinu is traitor, we could lynch him. However, check out the highlighted thing he finds probable; SK. How do you know there is "probably" an SK LSB? Sure, I suppose if you assume this is a standardish game you might reasonably be able to get away with saying there's a cop, a doc, and a vig. But an SK? That's fishy as hell. Now it might be true that we probably can't do much with just the information that a traitor exists. But if we know an SK exists, that's huge. Indeed, this is the one role that you DEFINITELY would like to know merely about the existence of. There's a massive difference between knowing there's an SK and knowing there isn't. That knowledge is powerful in the hands of town because we know that we can potentially pit scum and SK against each other, or that we have an extra scum to look for, basically. You wouldn't suggest that an SK is probable unless you already had that information. I bolded the important part to you. Note, mafia is given only some/all of the blue roles. Okay, that's a good point. However, let's clarify to make sure! Would the mafia team be notified if there is a serial killer or other third party present in the game? No Comment.
Which proves what?
That's right, nothing.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
You would think there would be more than 5-6 people around for the lynch deadline....
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It's not like this game at any point has been impressive in terms of activity.
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No thanks to you prpl, your RNG vote was on me since the beginning of the game. Am I really so scummy to you sir?
I know you've spoken with your vote, but you can still contribute...and commenting on the 'activity' of town is definitely not contributing in any way. What are your thoughts on LSB? Do you think he's scum, or are you voting just to avoid a no-lynch? What are your thoughts on GM's counterclaim?
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One of the concerns I have with this is that LSB seems to be up for lynch because of misplaced bus comments and lack of confidence. I lack confidence in this game too, it's full of people considered to be among the very best teamliquid has to offer, and I don't really buy into the misplaced bus comments.
About the roles, town should never conclude anything from roles in a closed setup. I think this could very well be a point in this game, there's been some talk about roles and alignment and breadcrumbing and stuff like that lately, but that's purely speculation. What isn't speculation is that town should never conclude anything from roles in a closed setup. Because it's a closed setup. We can use roles to direct attention to people, but not to conclude that at least one of these guys has to be scum.
I would much rather lynch BloodyC0bbler because it looks to me like he's just sitting back and enjoying the fireworks, I know that's not going to happen though.
What do people think of these thoughts? Namely that the case on LSB is still weak, and that we shouldn't conclude anything from all these claims but only use them to exert pressure on LSB/GM?
@VisceraEyes No but that was kinda 5 posts into the game, I was trying to prod you since you were all pissed at RNG. I think RNGs are alright because they prod and they spur discussion (look at half the discussion in this game has been about RNG, that sucks but that's because people didn't move on, and not because RNG is bad at starting discussion). My thoughts are up there, just F5'd before I posted.
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I was out Christmas shopping, sorry for being gone the last ~7 hours. This is what it looks like, assuming no RBs or protects, and the following cases. The numbers represent the outcome of the vig actions only.
Assume 3 scum.
Case 1:
GM green
LSB green
Lynch LSB: GM shoots tonight, either kills scum, or hits town and dies.
16-2 or 14-3 Net Loss: 1 scum/1 town, or 3 town.
Don't lynch LSB: GM and LSB shoot tonight
17-1, 13-3, 14-2 Net Loss: 2 scum, or 4 town, or 2 town, 1 scum
Case 2:
GM Red
LSB Green
Lynch LSB: GM doesn't shoot because he's scum
16-3, Net Loss: 1 Town (We have a scum to lynch)
Don't Lynch LSB: GM still doesn't shoot, LSB does.
17-2, 15-3, Net Loss: 1 Scum, or 2 Town (We have a scum to lynch)
Case 3:
LSB Red
GM Green
Lynch LSB: GM shoots tonight
17-1, 15-2, Net Loss: 2 Scum, or 2 Town, 1 Scum
Don't Lynch LSB: GM shoots tonight, LSB doesn't
17-2, 15-3, Net Loss: 1 Scum, or 2 Town (We have a scum to lynch)
Case 4:
GM red
LSB red
lolwut?
So, if we lynch LSB, the only way we don't end up hitting scum is if they're both town, and GM misses his shot. If we don't lynch LSB, we get a scum unless they're both town and both miss their shot. I'm kind've tired, so I'm not sure if this makes sense completely, or if I made some stupid mistake. Otherwise, it the outcome looks similarin either case (Lynching LSB or not). However, not lynching LSB means that it's going to take longer to get the same information (about LSB and GM). If we lynch him, then we see his flip, and either kill a scum, or lose a town KP.
What are the chances someone claims RB in the morning, though? That means we're either going to have to lynch them out of principle, or deal with bullshit for the next couple days. What do people plan to do, when someone claims RB, or claims their shot but the target doesn't die (vet or protected)? I see this as pretty likely to happen, regardless of if one is scum or not.
@GM or LSB:
If you shoot a protected town target (medic or vet), do you still commit suicide?
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
##Unvote: LSB
##Vote: GMarshal
aaawwwwwww yeah!
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
I will be here for the lynch so I can switch back if desperate times fall upon us.
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I'm going to venture asking Foolishness a question.
Is LSB town?
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I'm also entertaining the idea that GM is scum, and scum were given Justice Vigilante as one of their safe-claims. Then, he sticks that picture in his post so he can claim later if he gets put under pressure, or fakes a shot.
He actually placed that picture in his post, after he was pressured as well. I think it's so that if the wagon on him actually picked up speed, he could claim.
When LSB claimed his role, GM counter-claimed, in order to cause a mislynch. If LSB flips town, Scum GM still knows that Justice Vig is a role, and can claim that Ver put in similar roles with different names to punish claimers. He can then claim RB or that his target was protted in the morning when he fails to deliver a shot, or if scum is really ballsy, they can shoot one of their own or something.
The only thing that doesn't make sense about this, is that this would be close to trading 1 for 1 with town, because in the folow-up, GM is likely to die if he's scum. However, it seems likely GM would be put under lots of pressure, and potentially be killed if he was unable to deliver day 2. Especially after pleading for more time, and then it makes more sense to try to kill a vig by lynch on Day 1, if we was on course to a vig shot himself, anyways.
This is assuming GM is scum, though. I actually think there's a 50-50 chance between them about who's telling the truth (assuming they're not scum). GM's picture breadcrumb means nothing to me, because he hasn't done anything to prove his role. It's like what Ace always talks about, with breadcrumbs being useless before you flip. WBG did something similar in Mini Mafia X, going jk jk jk, and then claiming Jailkeeper. Town just ate that one up, too.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On December 22 2011 13:36 prplhz wrote:
I'm going to venture asking Foolishness a question.
Is LSB town?
I don't know. What I do know is that LSB is being responsible, and GMarshal is not.
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##Unvote: BloodyC0bbler
##Vote: GMarshal
For now.
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On December 22 2011 13:16 prplhz wrote:
It's not like this game at any point has been impressive in terms of activity.
wow, this is ironic coming from you.
What have you done all game? RNG VE?
You have no room to talk when it comes to activity.
Why are you assuming there are 3 scum, wiggles, when the total mafia number is listed at 4?
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On December 22 2011 13:38 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 13:16 prplhz wrote:
It's not like this game at any point has been impressive in terms of activity. wow, this is ironic coming from you. What have you done all game? RNG VE? You have no room to talk when it comes to activity. Why are you assuming there are 3 scum, wiggles, when the total mafia number is listed at 4?
Oh wow, I'm dumb and can't read the OP, lol.
I saw L guess the KP earlier, and thought it was the mafia numbers. It doesn't make a difference for the net outcomes, though, just the town/mafia numbers in the morning.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
Wiggles, you don't mention which scenario you prefer...
Also, why did you assume 3 mafia? OP clearly states the mafia count is four + a traitor.
On December 22 2011 13:33 Foolishness wrote:
##Unvote: LSB
##Vote: GMarshal
aaawwwwwww yeah!
I knew I could count on your support. Now witness the wrath of my town influence as I gather 10 other votes in the next 20 minutes.
##Unvote
##Vote Foolishness
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On December 22 2011 13:37 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 13:36 prplhz wrote:
I'm going to venture asking Foolishness a question.
Is LSB town? I don't know. What I do know is that LSB is being responsible, and GMarshal is not.
That is true... Chezinu?
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EPT
