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On August 11 2012 01:36 Axero wrote:@ HapaIt's a fast paced game.  I'm still excited to play, even if you can't see it in my posts. Learning as I go. Fluff: (Congrats on the wedding btw)
But that's the thing here - you're excited to play... then you didn't read the thread and had to have your friend/coach remind you to read? This makes no sense.
Btw, you should congratulate Konen - he's the one getting married. I'm the one who was supposed to look for apartments today until my car got recalled =/
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I didn't say he reminded me to read. He suggested I keep in touch with the thread, in case someone addressed me. Which was obviously good advice, since you did address me, lol. I didn't use the advice completely correctly, but I think all in all it was better i posted what I did than nothing, don't you?
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Really? Well happy apartment finding then. I have a side of my bed open if you want to rent it! 
Happy Wedding Konen!!
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EBWOP:
Spooning required, clothes optional.
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@Dandel: I thought you were doing fine Additional questioning seemed redundant and my suspicions were already clear.
@axero: Your play has been exceeding poor. If you survive lynch d1 please try to pick it up. Instead of writing your 80% accusation based on your perceptions, go back and read to gather evidence and construct a strong case.
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On August 11 2012 01:17 Axero wrote:
@ Hapa
...
Why did you decide this was the breaking point to which I could no longer be a town, in your eyes?
If I had mentioned me having other plans during the night earlier (like you and a couple others did), would this have changed your view toward the statement, or would you still feel the same way?
The only evidence you have on me not being town is some bad logic posts and excuse posts, that a few others have disagreed with you on. As for Day 1 lynching, your activity isn't a good giveaway and my suspicions remain a gut feeling.
Wanted to comment on this:
Making excuses for inactivity/lack of analysis is a mafia tell. Playing the n00b card is a pretty common one. This was the "breaking point."
If you had mentioned other plans, I'd treat it as a null tell - I'd just take your inactivity for face value and still be suspicious of you. It seems silly to argue this since it didn't happen though. Also, I stated my "plans" before the game started and before I knew my allignment. Furthermore, I haven't seen any other players in-game state excuses for current inactivity. Kronen mentioned a marriage, but that's in the future... not now.
I don't consider my logic bad, and no player so far has outright disagreed with me on my read. A few are hesitant about lynching you given their other reads, but I bet every player in this game would see you as suspicious to whatever degree.
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(Working on a golf club and came back earlier because the rain made it impossible and useless for me to work)
I was cutting grass this morning and while doing so, I thought about the game ! (You have a lot to think about when you're cutting grass  )
With my the time I had, I realized I had enough material to build a case ! (Trying to make it more organized this time with points as ShadySands told me in one of his last posts !)
Case on Dandel Ion :
1- Mkfuba made a great case against Lvdr (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=24#462)
After that, a bunch of people commented on the case he had made.
Since there are 3 scums, we are 9 citizens which would make a huge majority (IF ONLY TOWNIES COMMENTED) of people who talked about the case of Mkfuba.
On August 09 2012 15:08 YourHarry wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I don't buy your case against Lvdr. While, whether one-liner posts without any logical explanations is beneficial to town in the early stages of the game is up for an argument, I do not think scums have tendency to post such one liners. I (though may be an exception) tend to post bunch of trolling one-liners as town (see my previous 2 games). Second, his read that both "me and Hapha are both scums or both towns" seems to be based on some logic. I agree that maybe he could have posted a quick explanations behind his read, but allowing some time for people to think about how Lvdr arrived at such conclusion could be good for town. In this case, he could have may be said "Discuss" or something. But as you mentioned, NEITHER town or scum has a motivation to post random suspicions.
Add the fact that he was drunk... I fail to see scummy reads from Lvdr.
Now, take Lvdr's last quote: "More plausible than yh then?" In context, Lvdr was simply asking Hapha for his opinions on who he thinks is scummier, me or Lvdr. If Lvdr indeed thought that Hapha and I were scums together, I can imagine Lvdr's intention to confirm this read based on Hapha's response. And, mkfuba, by your putative "scum motivation" do you mean Lvdr is actively trying to confuse town by posting incoherent one liners? If so, I find it hard to imagine scums methodically engineering incoherent one liners to confuse town.
In summary, I accuse you of possibly attempting to endorse/set-up Lvdr bandwagon by fabricating evidence from bunch one-liners posted when he was drunk.
On August 10 2012 01:21 Hapahauli wrote:+ Show Spoiler +@ Mkfuba: Good case, and much much better than the one on Prom from yetserday. I had the same thoughts on the "both mafia or both town" quote - it isn't how townies normally think. He doesn't consider the possibility of one of us being scum or one being town, etc.
On August 10 2012 03:29 Promethelax wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hey all, sorry for my late start. I was at work when we began and passed out when I came home.
my gut feeling is that lvdr is playing too dumb to be scum but after Harry's stellar scum play in XXIII.O (hah, see what I did there) I have to leave him as a null to slightly scummy read.
On August 10 2012 03:07 iamperfection wrote:+ Show Spoiler +@Lvdr Please do not lurk even though their is a lot of suspicon on you right now. I think mkfuba makes a lot of good points most specifically the fact that you stated they are either both town or both scum.I think that you need to address and i will be intrested to see what you have to say.
On August 10 2012 06:10 Sideni wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Regarding the case of mkfuba :
Honestly, I read through it and I felt it was a great case and you somehow convinced me a bit (enough to make Lvdr my number 1 suspect) ! The "Both hapa and yh are mafia or both are town?" got me ! Being town, I would only have written "Both Hapa and YH are mafia ?"
However, Dandel Ion never said a word about this case even if there was a lot to talk about ! (Can even just say that you agree or you don't)
He once mentioned that he knew he looked like a lurker, but he didn't know what to say.
On August 10 2012 04:54 Dandel Ion wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I know I look like a lurker, and that it doesn't fit my "meta"
I just don't know what to say...
However, when the case of Mkfuba came, he didn't say a word ! There's plenty of things he could have said.
If he doesn't know what to say about Mkfuba's case, it's probably because it was a strong case and that it would be bad for a plausible scum team !
After Mkfuba posted his case, Dandel Ion still maintained that he had nothing to say. (look bolded text in next quote)
I want to note that I didn't have much to say about Mkfuba's case, but I said that he convinced me and such things (which got me Dandel Ion's attention).
On August 10 2012 05:28 Dandel Ion wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 10 2012 04:51 Promethelax wrote:I am suspicious of Dandel's play thus far: He started by skating over the policy discussion, which is fair since we all just started a game together. He also suggests a silly policy lynch and doesn't give us a read or an opinion. Okay, first post. Just had to post. Whatever. But almost 24 hours later he comes back into the thread to say: Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 04:07 Dandel Ion wrote:On August 10 2012 04:01 Lvdr wrote:
I was writing a breakdown of Yh's town claim... then I read that it got retracted. So much for that.
Given that the claim was retracted and YH (according to him) didn't know his alignment when he made the claim we cannot really draw any conclusions based on it. Any argument would be a WIFOM from YH's point of view, but even YH didn't know what his alignment was.
That's assuming he said the truth. And you should never just assume that. which is basic advice to a newb that we could all give. He hasn't given the thread anything and was so excited before hand. (Look at all of his posts between game 23a and 23b, I am forced to think that something changed and so his excitement died down, I read this as a scum tell and will be watching Dandel closely. Just to clarify this shit, "basic advice to a newb" is the point of this. It's called "Newbie Mafia", you know? I'd like for you to point out the exact syllable that's "scummy" about it. Yeah, I'm lurking so far, I know I know. But so are goodkarma and Axero, Sideni (again) and Shady Sands (not even a single post since the start) I'd like to know the reason why I'm so far above them, because I'm pretty sure you don't have one.
Here's more !
On August 10 2012 05:54 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 05:37 iamperfection wrote:
Do you think we should still policy lynch yourharry? I was only 50% serious about that. So no, but if no better targets come up on day 1, I'll contemplate it again.
Here, even if some good cases are out, he just assumes that we won't find any target(recalling that he doesn't have anything to say) and tells us that he wouldn't mind to lynch YourHarry. Why would he don't mind lynching YourHarry even if YourHarry is way more coherent this time ?
I think he knows something !
2- First thing he said after Mkfuba's case
On August 10 2012 04:07 Dandel Ion wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 10 2012 04:01 Lvdr wrote:
I was writing a breakdown of Yh's town claim... then I read that it got retracted. So much for that.
Given that the claim was retracted and YH (according to him) didn't know his alignment when he made the claim we cannot really draw any conclusions based on it. Any argument would be a WIFOM from YH's point of view, but even YH didn't know what his alignment was.
That's assuming he said the truth. And you should never just assume that.
Lvdr mentioned that it was impossible to draw any conclusions about YH. However, Dandel Ion still answers to him that it's just if we assume YH said the truth. It's kinda fluffy, he just says the same thing Lvdr points out.
His answer seems to me to be some sort of tip that you would give to a friend. I'm implying here that they could be both scums.
3- Dandel Ion tries to pull the attention off of him and Lvdr
On August 10 2012 05:28 Dandel Ion wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 10 2012 04:51 Promethelax wrote:I am suspicious of Dandel's play thus far: He started by skating over the policy discussion, which is fair since we all just started a game together. He also suggests a silly policy lynch and doesn't give us a read or an opinion. Okay, first post. Just had to post. Whatever. But almost 24 hours later he comes back into the thread to say: Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 04:07 Dandel Ion wrote:On August 10 2012 04:01 Lvdr wrote:
I was writing a breakdown of Yh's town claim... then I read that it got retracted. So much for that.
Given that the claim was retracted and YH (according to him) didn't know his alignment when he made the claim we cannot really draw any conclusions based on it. Any argument would be a WIFOM from YH's point of view, but even YH didn't know what his alignment was.
That's assuming he said the truth. And you should never just assume that. which is basic advice to a newb that we could all give. He hasn't given the thread anything and was so excited before hand. (Look at all of his posts between game 23a and 23b, I am forced to think that something changed and so his excitement died down, I read this as a scum tell and will be watching Dandel closely. Just to clarify this shit, "basic advice to a newb" is the point of this. It's called "Newbie Mafia", you know? I'd like for you to point out the exact syllable that's "scummy" about it. Yeah, I'm lurking so far, I know I know. But so are goodkarma and Axero, Sideni (again) and Shady Sands (not even a single post since the start)
I'd like to know the reason why I'm so far above them, because I'm pretty sure you don't have one.Between YourHarry being YourHarry, mkfuba attacking YourHarry for being YourHarry, Lvdr being lvdr, mkfuba attacking lvdr for being lvdr, and the new people doing blanket statements about policy, I was yet unable to find anything I felt I could post on. That's my reason.
Here (look at the bolded text in the quote), we see that Dandel Ion gives as many names as possible to give people as many options as possible. In the manner he writes, we see that he's not happy that some suspicions are upon him. (Note that at that point, I wasn't lurking, I was just following the schedule I said I was going to follow when we were in XXIII.O)
On August 10 2012 06:23 Dandel Ion wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 10 2012 06:10 Sideni wrote:Arg ... Ok, looks like my cote didn't work REPOSTAlright, finally read through all the posts since I went to bed yesterday ! :D
@Dandel Ion : Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 05:28 Dandel Ion wrote:
Yeah, I'm lurking so far, I know I know. But so are goodkarma and Axero, Sideni (again) and Shady Sands (not even a single post since the start) I have to make it clear ... As I said in XXIII.O, I'm working from 5am to 1pm every day. From the time I go to bed and the time I come back from work (do not forget that I do have a life outside of the Internet. i.e. I went to a music school today to get lessons ! :D) there's a lot of time for people to post and you have to remember, I'm a slow reader Show nested quote +On August 07 2012 09:06 Sideni wrote:
I want to make a clear statement, I work every day from 5am to 1pm EST.
I looked yesterday (Sunday) to see when was the game starting and it had not begun yet. So, I went to bed (when you work this early, you have to sleep xD)
I came back today from work, all pumped up about starting my first game of forum mafia (I've only played the one on StarCraft) and I saw that I had 7 pages to read of English (I'm a slow reader in French, just imagine in English xD) I don't know if it's just that you forgot (I have to give it to you, it's from my first post in the game) or if you're trying to skip over that detail just to have one more name on your lurking list. =/ I have to tell you that it makes me a bit suspicious that you didn't know I was at work... However, I'm sure I'll forget (as you perhaps did) that Hapa is going on a trip for his marriage ! (Can't believe you fell for that trap(marriage) Hapa ) Regarding the case of mkfuba :Honestly, I read through it and I felt it was a great case and you somehow convinced me a bit (enough to make Lvdr my number 1 suspect) ! The "Both hapa and yh are mafia or both are town?" got me ! Being town, I would only have written "Both Hapa and YH are mafia ?" or at least in a different order (town before mafia)... However, I felt that it was kinda early to get a case going, not that it's a bad thing, but it's quite early. An early case and an early vote, could be suspicious to my eyes, but I don't have anything to make a read from you ! At the same time of posting, I want to ask what means EBWOP :D Also, note for @YourHarry : Hi there, nothing personal, it just highly irritates me to see, in your posts, "Hapha" instead of "Hapa" ... Could you please take care of that just for me ? :D It would be so kind of you :D EBWOP = Edit By Way Of Post Basically "edit:", just in another post, since you're not allowed to edit in mafia. Shit I just explained something, sorry Promethelax, I'll never do it again
Here, he's not even placing in spoilers my huge ass explanation ! Could cause confusion and regarding what he recently told me, he knows what will cause confusion !
So, as I said, he's quoting me (without spoilers) instead of just saying : "@Sideni : EBWOP = Edit By Way Of Post".
Confusion can be used to take the attention off something (Lvdr in that case). Indeed, if we don't know where to look, we don't know where to pay attention if we aren't experienced to something.
Also, he ends with a joke that seems to be irrelevant. However, adding that joke can draw attention from people instead of letting them pay attention to the case we're talking about !
On August 10 2012 07:40 Dandel Ion wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 10 2012 07:32 Sideni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 06:51 Lvdr wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Honestly, I read through it and I felt it was a great case and you somehow convinced me a bit (enough to make Lvdr my number 1 suspect) ! The "Both hapa and yh are mafia or both are town?" got me ! Being town, I would only have written "Both Hapa and YH are mafia ?" or at least in a different order (town before mafia)... I find this passage by Sideni somewhat scummy. Sideni claims a weak command of english multiple times, but is still comfortable bandwagoning mkfuba's argument with a semantic argument. As i said last game, scum hate making their own cases, and Sideni's is pretty fluffy. FOS Sideni Concerning my bad English : When I say that you have to forgive me if I don't master English that well, I'm just saying that I may sometimes make a mistake with grammar or a vocabular one. I may also not use the appropriate words. However, I am able to translate from English to French and the quote I'm referring to can be read that way : "Hapa et YH sont mafias ou civils ?" You have to understand that translating from word to word, I can easily say that I would have said something a specific way... Concerning the fact that I didn't make my own case : Why would I make a second case about yourself if mkfuba already made one ? Mostly when I have nothing to add to it... If something convinces me, I'll tell you what about it convinces me ... Finally, you say that I'm fluffy (you don't give a specific example and I don't mind). However, just imagine if I would have made my own case about yourself. The exact same thing that our buddy mkfuba said ! It would be even more fluffy ! Sometimes, even if you're town, it's just better to keep yourself quiet if you have nothing to add (it just creates confusion) Your suspicions about myself make me even more suspicious... Making this post, ou just act like I'm an easy target and because I think you're suspicious, you turn against me (which is, in my opinion, somewhat of a way a scum would act) I have to call it : FOS lvdr
If you're (vanilla) town, why would you be concerned with being second on a case?
You should not be scared of getting lynched, like, ever. People might accuse you of bandwagoning - so what?
Once you flip green, it's just more evidence against them.I understand that tunneling a single person too hard would be bad, but two people is not too much by any stretch of the imagination. Is my mentality just wrong here?
In that post, he still doesn't use the spoiler and leaves my huge post !
In the bolded part of the text, we can see that he's asking me questions, but we can also see that he has intentions behind those.
Yes indeed, we can see that he thinks I'm concerned that I'm on a case, trying to draw attention from people on me ! (I'm not concerned, I'm just explaining myself)
After that, he goes on and propose me that I shouldn't be scared of being lynched and to get accused of bandwagoning. He ends this sentence asking me what it would change. It would just change that I'm alive and I'm there to help town !!
He even says that if I die, it would only help town to get more info about the people who would bandwagon on me...
Why would a town player be happy to get information from a sacrifice of his mate !?
On the first hand, why would he ever think about that if he was town ?!
On August 10 2012 08:47 Dandel Ion wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 10 2012 08:28 Sideni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 07:59 Lvdr wrote:
How does changing the order in any way change whether there was a scum tell or not? Whether I happened to say town or mafia first I think the suspicion would have been similar. Therefore, Sideni's addition reads as quite fluffy to me.
Oh, I thought it was obvious, so I guess I skipped on that point ... =/ Well, first, if you only say "Both Hapa and YH are mafia ?" you look like a real town player (you care for the right thing). To illustrate myself, I'll have to use an example. Let's say you have oranges and grapefruits in a bag and you can't see them. Now, let's say you want an orange. You'll put your hand on one, you'll take it out (closing your eyes) and you'll ask the guy holding the bag : "Is this an orange ?" because that's the orange you want However, you asked : "Is this an orange or a grapefruit ?" Someone wouldn't talk about the grapefruit at all... Now, let's reverse the words : "Is this a grapefruit or an orange ?" First, you would never ask about the grapefruit at all !
Hmmm nevermind, I don't have to keep going on my explanation, I just realized how dumb my logic was xD
I'm sorry to everybody for the confusion xDWell, at least, the fact that you wouldn't usually ask for town is still right ! Bolded part and your analogy that doesn't go anywhere looks pretty scummy to me. There's basically no goal, direction or reason behind this, but you still feel the need to share it with us. You apologize for the confusion, but good town play, in my book, is trying to AVIOD confusion. Confusion, gray shades and everything inbetween just give scum openings for misinterpretations.Please, in the bolded part you clearly showed that you have the theoretical ability to think your posts through, the only thing left is to actually do it.
In the bold part here, we can see that he's trying to make me look scummy when in fact I was just claiming the fact that I made a mistake instead of letting it go on !
Doing so, he's again trying to get the attention off of him and Lvdr (Saying Lvdr because it all started because I was talking about Mkfuba's case).
He's also trying to make people think that my explanation and the acknowledgement of my mistake are just ways to create confusion ! Note that town players want to AVOID (as he said so well) confusion and that's why I would say I made a mistake.
On August 11 2012 00:57 Dandel Ion wrote:
I am currently most suspicious of Sideni (just in case I didn't make that clear enough yet)
I could see the merits of lynching lvdr or Axero too, but I'd be a bit more hesitant on them
In this post, we can clearly see that he's calling me suspicious (no shit ! )
Again, it would be to draw attention off of him or Lvdr ! Note that he didn't explain specificaly why I would be suspicious (I'm just trying to explain myself as fast as possible to be the most active as I can, looks like it's not the way to do it !)
Then, he follows saying that he would be suspicious about Lvdr (First time in the game and he already talks about lynching) and about Axero. However, we see that he tells us that he's hesitant which would mean that he doesn't want to have Lvdr lynched for real (just a way to get a distance from each other since he haven't talked about him yet !)
4- Never really scumhunted before today (almost time to lynch someone)
I don't want to post all the quotes of Dandel Ion (I posted almost all of them in my case).
But, here's one more that can cause confusion which is a one liner !
On August 10 2012 08:48 Dandel Ion wrote:
Argh typos in a post chiding players for not checking what they post, gg me.
So, looking at all the quotes I showed, the only thing he did is the following :
- Talking about policy;
- Said he wasn't as lurky than other lurkers
- Said he had nothing to say
- Posted some a one liner useless to everybody (I once corrected a typo I made, but it was within an other post !)
- He pointed out that I was bad at giving arguments and that my logic could be confusing
- He never talked about the cases that we saw !
He just recently started to talk about some things, but it's almost all about me and he didn't bring a strong case yet...
From all the reasons I gave above, I do believe Dandel Ion is part of mafia and I wouldn't be surprise to see Lvdr in his team !
##FOS Lvdr
##vote Dandel Ion
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@ Hapa
I honestly didn't think about it before the game started, but it is what it is, cant change that.
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lol
##vote Sideni
If somebody ELSE has something he'd like to ask me, I'll answer.
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Adding to my case on Dandel Ion :
First of all, I want to add something to my suspicions on a probable scum team (Dandel Ion and Lvdr).
I know, I haven't spotted someone else yet...
So, in the next quote, Dandel Ion is explaining to Hapa why he thinks I'm a good target and that Axero is just a lurker that we can't say much about.
On August 11 2012 01:22 Dandel Ion wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 11 2012 01:02 Hapahauli wrote:
Also, why the hesitancy against Lvdr and Axero? What part of the suspicions against them do you feel aren't valid (or are less valid than yours against Sideni)? Axero is just a lurker to me - in fact I see much of your suspicion towards him as OMGUS since he FoS'd you early in his posts, also your assumption that he was told to not lurk by the mafia coach. I don't share your assumption about the coach, and I can't OMGUS him, so to me, he's just a lurker with slightly scummy posts. I wouldn't call it hesitancy - I'd be kinda okay with lynching him after all. I just think Sideni is a better target. That my be biased, but it's how I feel about it atm. Getting to lvdr in a sec
However, his last words, made me even more suspicious !
You can all see by yourself, he's going to explain his thoughts about Lvdr later !
To me, it just looks like he has to analyze everything before giving a reason why he's hesitant to see if it matches !
Now, do you remember when I clearly showed that Dandel Ion had nothing to say a lot of the times ?
Well, he just recently talked about people doing so and said that it was a scum tell ! (look at the next quote)
On August 11 2012 01:34 Dandel Ion wrote:Alright, lvdr has lower priority because I think most of the case against him comes from the clusterfuck between him, YH and mkfuba ( from this page on pretty much), which I assume will make sense once we know some flips, but right now, I'm not sure how to read it. But as I write this he posts: + Show Spoiler +On August 11 2012 01:19 Lvdr wrote:
Regarding my apparent lack of scumhunting: I was the first to make a case against Sideni, however, Dandel started grilling Sideni so I decided to back off. In my opinion, Sideni has not done a particularly good job of defending himself. The strange analogies don't mean anything and contribute to a filter that is incredibly fluffy. But in game 0.5 you were town, so I don't think I can use that as a scum tell comfortably.
So, during the whole game he acted like there was nothing to say even if good cases were out !
And now, he's saying that he can't share the reasoning of Lvdr which is to not post cases because "the good ones were already taken". However, he did follow this logic (even if he was claiming that it's just because he had nothing to say !)
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@ Dandel Ion: Sideni posted quite the case on you, and you going "lol, Vote Sideni" makes you look pretty shitty. If you are town, I highly suggest you defend yourself.
As of now, I'm reading through Sideni's case, and I'll post my thoughts within the hour
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Requesting a VoteCount pl0x
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On August 11 2012 02:33 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Dandel Ion: Sideni posted quite the case on you, and you going "lol, Vote Sideni" makes you look pretty shitty. If you are town, I highly suggest you defend yourself.
As of now, I'm reading through Sideni's case, and I'll post my thoughts within the hour
Please read through it before saying things like that.
I don't trust myself to respond in a calm matter, I'd just insult him over and over - that would not help anyone.
If you read it and still think it's worth responding to, tell me.
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Hey all, just woke up and I'm catching up on the thread. I'll be here for another three hours or so.
Thoughts will be posted when they are collected.
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I'm working on sideni's case and the TLDR is: No. Maybe there are some useful nuggets to uncover, but I find trying to understand Sideni very difficult.
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Well a lot of Sideni's case on Dandel Ion is based off of his interactions with Lvdr. I would go as far as to say that Sideni basically assumes that Lvdr is mafia. For example, if Lvdr were to flip town, a good majority of the case would go up in flames. While this is a possibility, it's pretty severe to accuse Dandel Ion of being mafia without Lvdr having flipped red or something.
@ Sideni - what would happen to your case if... say Lvdr flipped green at one point in the game? Your case basically assumes that Lvdr is mafia, and based on Dandel Ion's interactions with Lvdr, you voted on Lvdr. Why aren't you voting Lvdr based on this?
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@Sideni: Your case seems contrived at best and actively ignorant at worst.
Point 1, Mkfuba's case: You call Dandel scum based on not commenting on the case, however by this logic 6 other people should be suspicious to you. However your point that Dandel could have commented could be useful later, but right now it is a WIFOM argument.
Point 2, willingness to lynch YH: You ignore the logic behind considering lynching YH, instead making another wild WIFOM argument.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=21#415 explained by Hapa
Point 3, naming lurkers and spoiler tag placement: Early d1 there are few leads. Pointing this out does not make you scummy. The spoiler tag argument is absurd, and followed up by a WIFOM argument
Yes indeed, we can see that he thinks I'm concerned that I'm on a case, trying to draw attention from people on me ! (I'm not concerned, I'm just explaining myself)
Next, he seems to lack a basic understanding of mafia strategy:
He even says that if I die, it would only help town to get more info about the people who would bandwagon on me...
Why would a town player be happy to get information from a sacrifice of his mate !?
On the first hand, why would he ever think about that if he was town ?!
It is difficult to consistently get red flips with D1 lynches. Town does its best, but the real strategy is that by lynching someone voting patterns will be available for analysis in later rounds.
Doing so, he's again trying to get the attention off of him and Lvdr (Saying Lvdr because it all started because I was talking about Mkfuba's case).
Sideni relentlessly tunnel's a WIFOM scumteam of Dandel and me.
Regarding the lack of scumhunting... Dandel is hunting Sideni because Sideni's play has been outrageously bad/scummy.
He has also made reads on me and Axero. He hasn't been prolific, but (because I share his suspicions) I find targeting Sideni quite reasonable.
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Thinking aloud: one of the things that's really bugging me about Sideni's case is the stance on Lvdr.
Sideni just seems too sure that Lvdr is scum. If Sideni agrees so much with mkfuba's case and thinks it's so good, why isn't Sideni voting for Lvdr? Specifically, why Sideni going ahead and voting for Dandel Ion when he thinks Lvdr is scum, and that Dandel Ion's interactions with "scum-Lvdr" make him suspicious?
Can anyone give me a townie motive? 'Cause I don't see one.
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@Hapahauli :
On August 11 2012 03:02 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Sideni - what would happen to your case if... say Lvdr flipped green at one point in the game? Your case basically assumes that Lvdr is mafia, and based on Dandel Ion's interactions with Lvdr, you voted on Lvdr. Why aren't you voting Lvdr based on this?
I actually haven't thought about that ! Your logic makes complete sense to me and I now see the contradiction in voting for Dandel Ion ! The logic behind it would then be that we first go with Mkfuba's case on Lvdr and from there, we can tell if my case is good. Thanks for making me understand myself, I'm changing my vote ! xD
@Lvdr :
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=31#616
point 1 : As you know, we are 9 towns and there are 3 mafia. 6 of everbody talked about Mkfuba's case.
Assuming that you are mafia I would assume that mafia players wouldn't comment on the case or at least, they would try to find something bad about the case which didn't happen. So, my guess is that all 6 people who commented are town and lurkers could be town as well.
point 2 : The thing is that YourHarry, before Dandel Ion comments, DOESN'T behave like a scum !
point 3 : I want you to explain me how do I seem to lack a basic mafia strategy ? I mean, why would we sacrifice a town to get information when we can lynch someone who looks scummy ?!
##unvote Dandel Ion
##FOS Dandel Ion
##vote Lvdr
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point 1 : As you know, we are 9 towns and there are 3 mafia. 6 of everbody talked about Mkfuba's case.
Assuming that you are mafia I would assume that mafia players wouldn't comment on the case or at least, they would try to find something bad about the case which didn't happen. So, my guess is that all 6 people who commented are town and lurkers could be town as well.
This is naive to the point of foolishness.
they would try to find something bad about the case which didn't happen.
The thing is that YourHarry, before Dandel Ion comments, DOESN'T behave like a scum !
YH offers a rebuttal to mkfuba's case.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=24#470
Maybe you missed it, but it makes your case logically inconsistent.
I want you to explain me how do I seem to lack a basic mafia strategy ? I mean, why would we sacrifice a town to get information when we can lynch someone who looks scummy ?!
YOU look scummy.
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EPT
