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Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
April 14 2012 14:34 GMT
#461
In case You did not get what I am saying:
Neither sandroba or GMarsh have solid candidate for lynching. If one of them is scum(which I believe that's the case) someone will probably go "support" lynching candidate. This way, their mate gets elected and people aren't as mad because it was "democratic" and such.
Captain should lynch his strongest scum read. If he gets weak and supports the new candidate for no strong reason I will be extremely suspicious
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18406 Posts
April 14 2012 14:42 GMT
#462
This is getting pretty ridiculous.

Senjay, prplhz: you haven't posted nor voted at all.

l10f, sinensis: a grand total of 1 throwaway post each. No vote.

Come out and play!
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18406 Posts
April 14 2012 14:44 GMT
#463
Correction. I just got told Sinensis ninjavoted for Ace. FoS: Sinensis. You want to random vote (which is bad) and then go and vote for Ace without explaining yourself?
Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
April 14 2012 14:49 GMT
#464
Acrofales, as I told You PM games tend to be pretty silent, which is freaking bad in my opinion. After You're dead there's noone to confirm convos You had.
I fear that we're going to have a lot of suprise voting and cases in something like 4-8 hours, when US comes back and we won't have time to sort it out.
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 14 2012 14:55 GMT
#465
Well whoever gets the Captaincy is going to instant lynch the quiet guys or anyone posting nonsense. It's a public vigi hit people: At least pretend to be playing the game in the thread.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18406 Posts
April 14 2012 15:17 GMT
#466
On April 14 2012 23:49 Kurumi wrote:
Acrofales, as I told You PM games tend to be pretty silent, which is freaking bad in my opinion. After You're dead there's noone to confirm convos You had.
I fear that we're going to have a lot of suprise voting and cases in something like 4-8 hours, when US comes back and we won't have time to sort it out.

That would be fine, if they were PMing people. I have PM'd quite a lot of people. None of them has talked to any of those 4. What gives?
Maverick32x
Profile Joined April 2011
United States311 Posts
April 14 2012 15:29 GMT
#467
Hey guys,
Okay!! Couple things- I'm not in the "PM Club" so here is my skype info: Maverick32x. I feel out of the loop with all of these "Secret PM" stuff thats going on...

As for scum reads, obviously the ninja voters and lurkers are number 1 candidates... but I'd also like to focus on Kurumi, who I think is on the right track.. and I'm wondering how people got some heated up about him so quickly?

I know Acro stated he felt it was just a proxy way to attack Sand and GM.. but I really think that there was so worthwhile information. So.. ya, I'd like to keep an eye on layabout after that exchange~
Check out 'Gamer Therapy'!! 10CST: twitch.tv/Maverick32x
talismania
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States2364 Posts
April 14 2012 15:34 GMT
#468
How long after captain is elected does the first lynch occur?

The problem with this whole captain's election is that everyone is focusing on the generalities and theory rather than on the practical: the captain decides the lynch, and no one is talking about who to lynch. The discussion so far has allowed the scum team to live in an environment where there is no pressure to post their impressions of other players. This must change.

In an effort to effect that change, I suggest that everyone post their impressions of everyone (why not?), and if you don't have an impression, then say so.

My list is in the spoiler:
+ Show Spoiler +

1. talismania - town

2. Jackal58 - put some pressure on node earlier, otherwise nothing solid. If I had to pick, I'd lean town on him.

3. sandroba - lean town for reasons I already discussed. Is the type of player who could do what he's doing as scum though, so must be cautious.

4. l10f - hard to say because of only that one (maybe two?) post. He merely weighed in on the captaincy debate, which I don't like. Neutral for now, curious to see what comes next.

5. Sinensis - no info, no clue.

6. Ace - there is a lot of metagame built around ace. As a new player on TL not familiar with his history/rep, I have no idea what to make of it. His play is a bit withdrawn in the thread, but perhaps he is playing more in the PM world (as kurumi's logs indicate).

7. RayzorFlash - I read him as town playing at a superficial level, or at least posting at one. He asked if I wanted to be captain out of the blue, which I think would be a strange thing to even think about or propose as scum.

8. sinani206 - no info no clue

9. senjai - sinensis, sinani, and senjai: are they playing the ultralurk scum strategy??? Kind of doubt it. Possible one is scum, but I think it's generally true that most scum try to at least look active.

10. chaoser - I remember his posts in the beginning and then nothing since - acrofales pointed this out as well. No clue.

11. grush57 - playing almost pm only, and being a bit cagey about it. Dunno what to say about it. Most scum wouldn't want to appear deliberately cagey, but I guess a few like to try to go to the next level of Sicilian logic.

12. risk.nuke - From what I understand has been doing quite a bit of chatting. Other than that I don't know.

13. EchelonTee - I am a bit suspicious of his FoS on Rayzorflash, mainly because I couldn't really see Rayzor as scum. I don't think it necessarily indicts ET, but I'm curious about his reasoning, and have asked him to follow up further.

14. Maverick32x - sandro is suspicious of him, as a posted log now indicates. I don't entirely buy it, but I can see it. Interested to see what he does next.

15. froggynoddy - kind of read him in the same boat as rayzorflash, but less sure.

16. prplhz - lurking threadwise, did vote. No info no clue.

17. michaelthe - I really didn't like the post he made where he responded to three general issues in the thread. Reactive posting makes me think scum, because seeming protown is easier in a reactive setting than in a proactive setting. The problem is townies post reactively too.

18. coagulation - playing loose and relaxed. lean town because of how loose he's been.

19. Snarfs - playing cautiously, not sure why. Early to support sandroba. neutral.

20. wherebugsgo - he seems like he did in the only game I've read on tl (DFM2), so lean town. I don't see the move he made where he changed his vote to himself all of a sudden to make much sense as scum.

21. layabout - layabout I can see either way. I did not like the post that kurumi also did not like, because it only dealt with what was being talked about and didn't offer much new. But he has done other things to probe for information, like his questioning of froggynoddy.

22. erandorr - uh really no clue. His first post was "hi" and his second was him instadefending himself. I'm curious why he dodged risknuke's request for chat logs.

23. MrZentor - lean town because I don't see the way he went about applying and unapplying for captaincy as a scum move, or a sequence of actions that a scumteam would support.

24. Node - no clue on node. I can't really remember what he's done off the top of my head, except for pressure a player a little bit.

25. Kurumi - I take it kurumi plays a very unique style. gut says town, brain says "wtf?"

26. GMarshal - I have no idea. He seems to really enjoy making little feints in one on one interactions. I have a feeling he would play this way regardless of alignment.

27. marvellosity - has not stuck out to me. neutral.

28. strongandbig - I dislike the kind of reactive posts he makes, as reactive posts always seem scummy to me. I thought it was interesting that he noted that Vayesh played this way in his last game that was a long time ago. Did anyone else go looking up Vayesh's history? I sure am not playing that hard haha.

29. Acrofales - lean town, he's playing looser and less composed for now than he did as scum in DFM2, and as an observer of DFM2, I leaned scum on him there from the beginning.

30. VayeshMoru - lean town I guess but he would make an awesome puppet for someone in a scumteam because in character players are impossible to read.


Also, I believe Ace mentioned that he disagreed with posting a lot of conversations and logs, that things should be kept simple. I disagree: just because a log is posted doesn't mean you have to click the spoiler tags and read it. When people make their cases, they will pull out the relevant info they need anyway. Having people share as much of their communication as possible (maybe once a day) means that all townies are able to see what other people are saying to other people, rather than just what they've said to people.

More (safe!) information = better, even if only marginally.
froggynoddy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom452 Posts
April 14 2012 16:01 GMT
#469
On April 15 2012 00:34 talismania wrote:
How long after captain is elected does the first lynch occur?

The problem with this whole captain's election is that everyone is focusing on the generalities and theory rather than on the practical: the captain decides the lynch, and no one is talking about who to lynch. The discussion so far has allowed the scum team to live in an environment where there is no pressure to post their impressions of other players. This must change.

In an effort to effect that change, I suggest that everyone post their impressions of everyone (why not?), and if you don't have an impression, then say so.

My list is in the spoiler:
+ Show Spoiler +

1. talismania - town

2. Jackal58 - put some pressure on node earlier, otherwise nothing solid. If I had to pick, I'd lean town on him.

3. sandroba - lean town for reasons I already discussed. Is the type of player who could do what he's doing as scum though, so must be cautious.

4. l10f - hard to say because of only that one (maybe two?) post. He merely weighed in on the captaincy debate, which I don't like. Neutral for now, curious to see what comes next.

5. Sinensis - no info, no clue.

6. Ace - there is a lot of metagame built around ace. As a new player on TL not familiar with his history/rep, I have no idea what to make of it. His play is a bit withdrawn in the thread, but perhaps he is playing more in the PM world (as kurumi's logs indicate).

7. RayzorFlash - I read him as town playing at a superficial level, or at least posting at one. He asked if I wanted to be captain out of the blue, which I think would be a strange thing to even think about or propose as scum.

8. sinani206 - no info no clue

9. senjai - sinensis, sinani, and senjai: are they playing the ultralurk scum strategy??? Kind of doubt it. Possible one is scum, but I think it's generally true that most scum try to at least look active.

10. chaoser - I remember his posts in the beginning and then nothing since - acrofales pointed this out as well. No clue.

11. grush57 - playing almost pm only, and being a bit cagey about it. Dunno what to say about it. Most scum wouldn't want to appear deliberately cagey, but I guess a few like to try to go to the next level of Sicilian logic.

12. risk.nuke - From what I understand has been doing quite a bit of chatting. Other than that I don't know.

13. EchelonTee - I am a bit suspicious of his FoS on Rayzorflash, mainly because I couldn't really see Rayzor as scum. I don't think it necessarily indicts ET, but I'm curious about his reasoning, and have asked him to follow up further.

14. Maverick32x - sandro is suspicious of him, as a posted log now indicates. I don't entirely buy it, but I can see it. Interested to see what he does next.

15. froggynoddy - kind of read him in the same boat as rayzorflash, but less sure.

16. prplhz - lurking threadwise, did vote. No info no clue.

17. michaelthe - I really didn't like the post he made where he responded to three general issues in the thread. Reactive posting makes me think scum, because seeming protown is easier in a reactive setting than in a proactive setting. The problem is townies post reactively too.

18. coagulation - playing loose and relaxed. lean town because of how loose he's been.

19. Snarfs - playing cautiously, not sure why. Early to support sandroba. neutral.

20. wherebugsgo - he seems like he did in the only game I've read on tl (DFM2), so lean town. I don't see the move he made where he changed his vote to himself all of a sudden to make much sense as scum.

21. layabout - layabout I can see either way. I did not like the post that kurumi also did not like, because it only dealt with what was being talked about and didn't offer much new. But he has done other things to probe for information, like his questioning of froggynoddy.

22. erandorr - uh really no clue. His first post was "hi" and his second was him instadefending himself. I'm curious why he dodged risknuke's request for chat logs.

23. MrZentor - lean town because I don't see the way he went about applying and unapplying for captaincy as a scum move, or a sequence of actions that a scumteam would support.

24. Node - no clue on node. I can't really remember what he's done off the top of my head, except for pressure a player a little bit.

25. Kurumi - I take it kurumi plays a very unique style. gut says town, brain says "wtf?"

26. GMarshal - I have no idea. He seems to really enjoy making little feints in one on one interactions. I have a feeling he would play this way regardless of alignment.

27. marvellosity - has not stuck out to me. neutral.

28. strongandbig - I dislike the kind of reactive posts he makes, as reactive posts always seem scummy to me. I thought it was interesting that he noted that Vayesh played this way in his last game that was a long time ago. Did anyone else go looking up Vayesh's history? I sure am not playing that hard haha.

29. Acrofales - lean town, he's playing looser and less composed for now than he did as scum in DFM2, and as an observer of DFM2, I leaned scum on him there from the beginning.

30. VayeshMoru - lean town I guess but he would make an awesome puppet for someone in a scumteam because in character players are impossible to read.


Also, I believe Ace mentioned that he disagreed with posting a lot of conversations and logs, that things should be kept simple. I disagree: just because a log is posted doesn't mean you have to click the spoiler tags and read it. When people make their cases, they will pull out the relevant info they need anyway. Having people share as much of their communication as possible (maybe once a day) means that all townies are able to see what other people are saying to other people, rather than just what they've said to people.

More (safe!) information = better, even if only marginally.


A list... So who would you lynch, or more accurately who do you want the captain to lynch, and who do you think is going to get you that lynch?
'better still, a satisfied man'
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18406 Posts
April 14 2012 16:03 GMT
#470
Were items given out at random? Or did role/item go together?
layabout
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom2600 Posts
April 14 2012 16:27 GMT
#471
Why so many questions guys?
On April 13 2012 08:34 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
If I missed anyones role PM now is the time to PM me about it. PM me any questions you have about the game DO NOT post them in the thread. Do not ask Kitaman about them either because he doesn't know. The game should start about 6 PM PST.


Gonna vote now in case i can't be here later.
##vote sandroba

If we think there is too great a risk that one of Gm/Sandro?Ace is scum then i think we should vote for Acrofales.
Be the Best You Can Be ! Play MAFIA II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/ II Dragonsound Best Band
froggynoddy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom452 Posts
April 14 2012 16:29 GMT
#472
On April 15 2012 01:27 layabout wrote:
Why so many questions guys?
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2012 08:34 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
If I missed anyones role PM now is the time to PM me about it. PM me any questions you have about the game DO NOT post them in the thread. Do not ask Kitaman about them either because he doesn't know. The game should start about 6 PM PST.


Gonna vote now in case i can't be here later.
##vote sandroba

If we think there is too great a risk that one of Gm/Sandro?Ace is scum then i think we should vote for Acrofales.


I take it you don't think theres a risk, otherwise you would have voted for him.
'better still, a satisfied man'
layabout
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom2600 Posts
April 14 2012 16:32 GMT
#473
On April 15 2012 01:29 froggynoddy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2012 01:27 layabout wrote:
Why so many questions guys?
On April 13 2012 08:34 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
If I missed anyones role PM now is the time to PM me about it. PM me any questions you have about the game DO NOT post them in the thread. Do not ask Kitaman about them either because he doesn't know. The game should start about 6 PM PST.


Gonna vote now in case i can't be here later.
##vote sandroba

If we think there is too great a risk that one of Gm/Sandro?Ace is scum then i think we should vote for Acrofales.


I take it you don't think theres a risk, otherwise you would have voted for him.

That made... sense. Maybe i will have to review my stance on you.

Ultimately we need a mayor that we think is town.
Be the Best You Can Be ! Play MAFIA II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/ II Dragonsound Best Band
MrZentor
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1648 Posts
April 14 2012 16:48 GMT
#474
We really should start discussing lynch victims. -.-

I nominate Chaoser.
Falling’s just like flying, except there’s a more permanent destination.
froggynoddy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom452 Posts
April 14 2012 16:52 GMT
#475
On April 15 2012 01:48 MrZentor wrote:
We really should start discussing lynch victims. -.-

I nominate Chaoser.


Why?
'better still, a satisfied man'
froggynoddy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom452 Posts
April 14 2012 16:53 GMT
#476
EBWOP: Why as to Chaoser, I agree with discussing lynch targets.
'better still, a satisfied man'
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
April 14 2012 17:02 GMT
#477
On April 15 2012 01:53 froggynoddy wrote:
EBWOP: Why as to Chaoser, I agree with discussing lynch targets.


His total lurking, perhaps mixed in with the fact he's a vet, I imagine
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18406 Posts
April 14 2012 17:03 GMT
#478
MrZentor. That was completely useless. Make a case on Chaoser or be quiet. You are really making it hard for me to believe you're town :S
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18406 Posts
April 14 2012 17:03 GMT
#479
On April 15 2012 02:02 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2012 01:53 froggynoddy wrote:
EBWOP: Why as to Chaoser, I agree with discussing lynch targets.


His total lurking, perhaps mixed in with the fact he's a vet, I imagine

Or... you could let Zentor answer that?
Snarfs
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada1006 Posts
April 14 2012 17:04 GMT
#480
Couple of things:

@froggynoddy: You're focusing on actions rather than motives:
On April 14 2012 18:16 froggynoddy wrote:
But seriously I don't like Sandroba's stance on PM-ing and the Captaincy in general. I also don't like GM's response to my question:

Show nested quote +
On April 14 2012 07:07 GMarshal wrote:
On April 14 2012 06:56 froggynoddy wrote:
Ok, sorry for lack of activity, built a mobile donkey shelter and then went to restaurant... too much Cognac. Back to the game:

Comparing campaigners content, I would like to vote for GM. He makes by far the most sense out of all those running for mayor. He isn't gimicky, he isnt super pro PM-ing (which admittedly has its uses late game, but seems to confuse the hell out of stuff early game), and his stance regarding 'enlightened despot' vs 'democrat' appeals to me. What I don't like is his vote on Sandroba. Similarlyto the premise 'push a lynch that you believe will most likely result in scum flip', our votes for Mayor should be 'who you think is most likely to summarily execute scum'. So my question to you (GM) is this:

You don't know that Sandroba is town, if you are town then you know for sure that you are town, threrfore you are most likely to find scum. Therefore why vote for Sandroba unless he's your scumbuddy, I don't get it .

Because sandro is my strongest town read ^_^

Also I hardly ever vote for myself in elections, its not respectable. Its not a matter of logic, its a simple matter of if I can vote for the guy running against me and he votes for me, its the same net result, but its much more elegant. Is it stupid? Probably. I'm going to do it anyway.


I don't see the Sandroba town thing, plus surely at this early stage the only town read that could be described as in any way strong is yourself.

You don't like that GM is voting for sandroba because sandroba is GM's strongest town read? That doesn't make sense.

The main reasons why I'm voting for Ace was because him and GM seemed to make the most sense to me, but I had mssgivings about the GM vote on Sandroba thing, but I have since asked Doc whether you can vote for yourself. I may change my opinion once he answers.

Whether or not Doc answers you doesn't matter. GM never once said that he was voting for sandroba because of a mechanic that didn't permit him. He clearly said it was because sandroba was his biggest town read.

Also, consider this: At this point, if either GM or sandroba were to switch their own vote to themselves, would that not be highly suspicious? As it is they cancel each other out which is what should happen in the first place. If one switches without the other, don't you think they'd be seen as padding their own vote totals?



@Kurumi, Acrofales, talismania: I really appreciate you guys sharing things in the thread. Please continue doing so as I agree it's good to have as much info in thread as possible.



@sandroba: Why are/were Maverick and l10f your most suspicious reads? l10f has hardly posted anything which means you're probably in PM convo with him. Acrofales has said that he's having a hard time finding anyone who's talked to him. What do you know about l10f that the rest of us don't?

Since I'm not as invested in the PM world I'm getting less of a town vibe from sandro and leaning more towards GM. Especially stating that l10f and maverick were his most suspicious targets.



@GM, sandroba, ACE: Who is your best scum read at this moment? I need to be an informed voter.
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