EPT*shrug*
Penalty Mafia - Page 22
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
*shrug* | ||
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Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
1. Flaming (personal attacks) will not be allowed. However, aggressively or harshly criticizing someone's arguments is NOT equivalent to demeaning someone and will be allowed. Nothing serious going on now - this is TL Mafia forum after all - but I see potential. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
On August 10 2010 09:15 Ace wrote: Ok just got my PM from Hessmyrr. I'm going to break the game wide open because we aren't going to sit around playing the blame game with LSB and the rest of the scrubs for 3 days. I'm also going to explain how I arrived out my stunningly awesome conclusion: The game has 10 town and 3 scum. In a typical game of Mafia this would be slightly unbalanced in favor of the scum unless the town has a Vigilante. This is why I'm extremely sure we have a Vigilante. Otherwise this game would be ridiculous. Call this assumption 1. Now based on my own role PM, I know our roles are weakened. Taking this into account let's call the 10 vs 3 setup neutral or 0:0. When everyone's penalties came out I was wondering if all of us had negative effects. So far it seems like it. For every negative effect I subtracted 1 from the town side. My penalty bumatlarge's penalty zeks penalty So now we're at -3: 0. At this point since the Mafia have no penalties the game would be highly unbalanced in their favor. There is no way that the town from a standard game got ALL weakened abilities because this would be a bastard game: The town could never win. I highly doubt this is the case. And so I came to the conclusion my role has a hidden ability: If I visit scum at night I die. This is why I said my abilities are potentially game breaking. I can tell you what I'm going to do and if it happens to be a scum aligned player, I automatically die regardless of what else happens that night. If this assumption holds true, and I'm pretty sure it can then we've got this game finished. I can just claim who I'm going to visit ahead of time and if I come back alive the person is town aligned. If I die and there's only one kill at night you'll know I got him by scum (barring a Vigilante hit). So with that said - let's get the show on the road  How can you even begin to make these calculations without knowing what other blue roles there are? Not only that, but you assume based on them that you have a "hidden ability" which may or may not make sense. I see how these claims would be convenient though, now that you're to be lynched next. | ||
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Divinek
Canada4045 Posts
On August 10 2010 12:15 bumatlarge wrote: Pretty desperate. If I didn't know better (I'm sure you'd make a 5 paragraph essay speculating in a roundabout way about how do not know better) you would like me to use my ability, wouldn't you? well if you did use it then you really would be a god in this game wouldnt you or at least an immortal! that's quite the one up | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On August 10 2010 12:24 citi.zen wrote: How can you even begin to make these calculations without knowing what other blue roles there are? Not only that, but you assume based on them that you have a "hidden ability" which may or may not make sense. I see how these claims would be convenient though, now that you're to be lynched next. *yawn* How much you wanna bet I don't get lynched? | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
On August 10 2010 12:35 Ace wrote: *yawn* How much you wanna bet I don't get lynched? Way to not answer the real question. *yawn* | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
On August 10 2010 12:42 citi.zen wrote: Way to not answer the real question. *yawn* Hey citizen, do YOU think I should use my power? You know, the one that screwes town over completely? | ||
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Divinek
Canada4045 Posts
On August 10 2010 12:38 bumatlarge wrote: Yeah it would seem Ace doesnt care whether or not I use it. You would think a townie would say that that would be a very bad move, but that's probably my noobie tendencies talking. I mean how bad can it be to give mafia 4 against, whats this now? 8 then? Hmm and no DT because, oh look hes dead! Because of some brilliant plan! Man what should we do now Ace? well i think the only thing we gain from it is a confirmed townie. But in a game with such a small number of players, shifting the balance by TWO people, 1 for each side is down right ridiculous and i dont think you could ever justify using it. Like seriously even if you were to be lynched it'd be better to give town -1, than -1 and +1 mafia, unless you knew for sure someone else was scum or something. Because a confirmed townie isnt really much to go off of what with us not being allowed to pm and stuff this game, that and probably our only dt is dead anyway. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
On August 10 2010 12:43 bumatlarge wrote: Hey citizen, do YOU think I should use my power? You know, the one that screwes town over completely? Why would you? If we get to a point where it makes sense maybe, right now I don't see it. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
@Ace: Why do you not think you'll get lynched? I'm not saying I'm going to vote you, mind. | ||
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Korynne
Canada990 Posts
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On August 10 2010 15:12 Bill Murray wrote: I don't even understand your power, but you weren't asking me @Ace: Why do you not think you'll get lynched? I'm not saying I'm going to vote you, mind. He seems to be under the impression that he can sway the town away from voting for him. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
On August 10 2010 23:22 chaoser wrote: jesus, i'm gone for a night and shit goes down -_-. Why didn't people get off Pyrr when he claimed DT? I guess it was too late at that point? Ace, you got some explaining to do...what is this "hidden ability" stuff about? A bunch of BS that Ace made up. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
He didn't make it up, he logically deduced, based on the few penalties people posted so far, and without knowledge of the blue roles included in the game. I mean... the town was at -3 versus the "baseline" - what else could be going on besides hidden abilities?? | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:59 chaoser wrote: mm, are you sure it's bs? I want him to talk about it first/how he came tot he conclusion that he has a hidden ability before I decide You mean this: On August 10 2010 09:15 Ace wrote: Ok just got my PM from Hessmyrr. I'm going to break the game wide open because we aren't going to sit around playing the blame game with LSB and the rest of the scrubs for 3 days. I'm also going to explain how I arrived out my stunningly awesome conclusion: The game has 10 town and 3 scum. In a typical game of Mafia this would be slightly unbalanced in favor of the scum unless the town has a Vigilante. This is why I'm extremely sure we have a Vigilante. Otherwise this game would be ridiculous. Call this assumption 1. Now based on my own role PM, I know our roles are weakened. Taking this into account let's call the 10 vs 3 setup neutral or 0:0. When everyone's penalties came out I was wondering if all of us had negative effects. So far it seems like it. For every negative effect I subtracted 1 from the town side. My penalty bumatlarge's penalty zeks penalty So now we're at -3: 0. At this point since the Mafia have no penalties the game would be highly unbalanced in their favor. There is no way that the town from a standard game got ALL weakened abilities because this would be a bastard game: The town could never win. I highly doubt this is the case. And so I came to the conclusion my role has a hidden ability: If I visit scum at night I die. This is why I said my abilities are potentially game breaking. I can tell you what I'm going to do and if it happens to be a scum aligned player, I automatically die regardless of what else happens that night. If this assumption holds true, and I'm pretty sure it can then we've got this game finished. I can just claim who I'm going to visit ahead of time and if I come back alive the person is town aligned. If I die and there's only one kill at night you'll know I got him by scum (barring a Vigilante hit). So with that said - let's get the show on the road This is version 2 of what he told us day one, and it's still pretty bad. | ||
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:59 chaoser wrote: mm, are you sure it's bs? I want him to talk about it first/how he came tot he conclusion that he has a hidden ability before I decide On August 11 2010 00:27 citi.zen wrote: He didn't make it up, he logically deduced, based on the few penalties people posted so far, and without knowledge of the blue roles included in the game. I mean... the town was at -3 versus the "baseline" - what else could be going on besides hidden abilities?? Theirs quite a few completely wrong assumptions. Firstly, lets go over his logic again. EVERYONE in the town has a penalty. Not just the 4 people he used his 'data' from. So in reality, it should be far below -3. Okay, so lets pretend the town is really behind and we all have hidden roles. That doesn't sound like too much of a jump. So how in the world does Ace know he's going to die if he misses scum? Ace just pulls a role out of a hat and pretends it fits. Who knows, maybe if Ace visits a scum, the scum dies? That would be another penalty Faults with Aces logic 1) Assumption of population data with the penalties. But in reality, Ace just has a Green/Red Biased sample. Ace can't just say the score is -3:0 when 9 people haven't responded. 2) Assumption that there is 'nothing going for the town' and nothing wrong with the mafia Ace said At this point since the Mafia have no penalties the game would be highly unbalanced in their favor. This is flat out wrong. In this game, there is 1) Lots of blue roles. 2) Changing of expectations. Mafia will find that their ability is hindered. Ace can't assume their is hidden roles just because he QQs over the apparent imbalance in this game 3) Random role out of the hat. Ace can't just pick a random role out of the hat and pray it's the same one Hesmyrr chose. It's akain to me saying "I feel if I die on night one, I have a hidden role called 'death-curse' that kills all mafia members". Okay. Now I will show you why Ace is not town Lets check out this topic of Aces How Ace Plays as sucm On June 28 2010 13:33 Ace wrote: [*]The Art of Arguing:
Note the things I've bolded. Ace has made many logical fallacies and still tries to pull it through. When questioned about these problems, he just asks his own questions in return, ignoring the severe flaws in his plan. Conclusion: Ace is Scum | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
Assuming ace is scum, the game will be 7-2 at day 3. Now i guess to utilize this role i have to survive to a point where town has an advantage. So if the game ever reaches a day phase where (Town# - 1) x 2 > (mafia# + 1) then I would claim myself something of a spokesperson for the town. If town disagrees at that point, i will treestump and organize the town properly. I am not asking for medic protection, but I am proposing myself as a target later if not now for mafia. That way a person with a better role can live. Hopefully mafia feels a little threatened. BTW, lylo isnt in effect til day 5 if all lynches til then are town besides ace (disregarding vig and medic). And my plan wouldnt go into effect anyway until another red is killed, unless people would consider (T# - 1) x 2 = (M# + 1) a pro town situation. | ||
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