EPTConstantly losing TvZ, what am I doing wrong? - Page 2
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Analog_now
Canada14 Posts
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ecaesar
Canada106 Posts
Sometimes, a 2 rax with bunker and good micro is enough to win the game e.g http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/115110-1v1-terran-zerg-metalopolis or you can opt to expand and play a macro game e.g http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/115111-1v1-terran-zerg-metalopolis In the 2nd replay, I went for MM + tank. Like the previous posters, I stress getting your upgrades. You'll notice that I was 3-2 i believe by end game. Marines stim and tanks in the back destroys even ultras. You just gotta make sure to always hit the zerg expo instead of going straight for the main. Usually around the end game, their main is mined out so its pointless to kill it. edit: These are 2.2k level | ||
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BuuGhost
Netherlands340 Posts
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ecaesar
Canada106 Posts
On December 12 2010 13:13 BuuGhost wrote: The main thing you want to do is either put on Fake or Real pressure, Going in with a macrogame zerg (Any decent one) will result in 99% losses. So harras, Send in your army just to kill some creep tumors and leave, Or do drops regulary, Other than that try to deny expansions as much as you can. Playing a macro game with a zerg is not 99% loss. The thing with zerg macro is that you have to constantly deny their drone count while you build up that death ball of army. | ||
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NightHawk929
79 Posts
It works very well, since marines are no gas, and ravens and medivacs are mostly gas. Wouldn't reccomend this if you're like bronze though, wwhat league are you in? (facepalm if you said it and i missed it) | ||
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
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emidanRKO
United States137 Posts
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/115130-1v1-terran-zerg-steppes-of-war this is a 2200 zvt, not a really high level or anything. Please ignore the drone harrass as after the 4 drone harras the game went on to what it would reguarly have turned out to be. I've had much MUCH better games where the bunker rush goes so great that it ends the game right there, and these are all 2200+ games. I didn't get to fully watch your replay, I just watched the beginning to see what you opened up with and it didnt look too good so I just continued to post here. brb watching | ||
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HardCorey
United States709 Posts
Heres the video: HardCorey QuestionTime #15: TvZ Keeping up in the Late Game against Zerg My Main Thread Hope this helps, -HardCorey | ||
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Touch
Canada475 Posts
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xVeta
United States38 Posts
So my overall suggestions to you is practice your macro it seems to be your weakpoint. You do good at producing units but scvs are kinda slacking and ur idle scvs are a big problem. Next thing to work on is ur micro u sent 10marines to do an early push and there were 2 Banglings morphing a simple attack click on those 2 banglings and that attack would've done 2x the dmg... you prolly woulda gotta a queen and 3-4 drones cause ur zerg oppenent wasnt even ready for that attack. | ||
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xVeta
United States38 Posts
SO BO IS 1.2 Rax no gas pump till 10 marines 2. at about 4:15 drop your CC Using it as part of your wall 2 Rax + CC in Center this prevents all BBust. 3. At 5:30 Double Gas Then make 2 factorys once u get the gass for each one make them ASAP 4. Your first factory finnishes put down a techlab and reasearch Blue flame for helions 5. 2nd factory add a reactor and build 2 helions out of your techlab then swap to tanks should be right when reactor finnishes. pump 2 more helions from reactor. During this time be producing non-stop Scvs+ marines. 6. Make a push with the 4 Blueflame helions and the amount of marines u have should be like anywhere from 10-20. 7. Make starport and 3rd factory and a armory when you have the gas and start pumping non-stop Siege tanks and Turret up b4 the 10:00 mark because of mutas. 8. At about the 12:00 mark im upgrading both tanks/marines and using blue flame helion drops + marine/tank/helion/thor pushes to expand/stop my oppenent from expanding. | ||
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NeepLeZ
Canada19 Posts
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Scare_Crow
217 Posts
You can try Fallen's 3 rax 1/0 Combat Shield timing push, which is giving me a very good win ratio against low level diamond (I'm 1600). Marauders can soak up an incredible amount of Bling damage (I think they only deal 19 damage to Marauders), so having ~3 Marauders in front of your ~15 Marines work wonders, especially when you engage on the ramp and your Marauders clog it up. If you spread your Marines into little clumps, or just make them into a line instead of a ball once the fight starts, you can minimize Bling damage, and that's usually enough to let you push for his natural before the 8 minute mark. | ||
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Kcip
25 Posts
Most Zerg will go for an early FE. Put a reactor on your rax and then swap with your factor. I almost always go helions to drop ship harrass. This is even more effective if they're going for a baneling bust as you've already countered their attack. Zerg will typically go into roaches. Mutas are a little bit more difficult as they probably don't have the gas at this point to support this. You should already have been teching to cloaked banshees for even more harrass or a kill. Once you see the spire go up protect your mineral lines with turrets and start pumping thors mixed in with some tanks. This is a very gas dependent build and you'll need to expand relatively early to support 3 or 4 factories pumping siege. | ||
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Scare_Crow
217 Posts
On December 14 2010 10:45 Kcip wrote: I'm surprised no one suggested going 111 against Zerg. I find it extremely effective and gives you the versatility to basically counter any attack they have. Most Zerg will go for an early FE. Put a reactor on your rax and then swap with your factor. I almost always go helions to drop ship harrass. This is even more effective if they're going for a baneling bust as you've already countered their attack. Zerg will typically go into roaches. Mutas are a little bit more difficult as they probably don't have the gas at this point to support this. You should already have been teching to cloaked banshees for even more harrass or a kill. Once you see the spire go up protect your mineral lines with turrets and start pumping thors mixed in with some tanks. This is a very gas dependent build and you'll need to expand relatively early to support 3 or 4 factories pumping siege. I find 1-1-1 too defensive and fragile. Going for Hellion Drop Ship Harass and Banshees with Cloak into Thors and Tanks puts you at a very low unit count, so you're not safe to actually expand, which makes it hard to get the income necessary to support your mid-game. I go 3 Rax myself because it puts the Zerg on the defensive instead, and allows me to get up my expansion safely and force the Zerg to make combat units or else I will just kill them outright. Just Ling/Roach cannot beat 3 Rax 1/1, this forces him to usually go Banelings, which means he will not have the gas necessary to pump out a boatload of Mutas to wreck my economy even if he gets to Spire tech. | ||
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frumpylumps
61 Posts
On December 14 2010 09:46 HardCorey wrote: Yo, Frumpylumps (love the name) I took a look at your replay and made a vod reviewing it. I thought you had some good ideas when pushing but it didn't quite work with your general game plan of making it into the late game with an economic advantage (from fast expanding). I respect that you don't just want to do marine all-ins quite a bit so I thought I'd take look. Heres the video: HardCorey QuestionTime #15: TvZ Keeping up in the Late Game against Zerg My Main Thread Hope this helps, -HardCorey Hey, thanks a lots for that advice HardCorey, it was very helpful and informative. I had to laugh when you said "I don't know what to say" after you saw those first two painfully mismanaged attacks. Usually my control isn't so utterly horrible and I do a lot more damage. I remember thinking after that first attack, "well that was a total waste". After watching your vid, I realize I made so many mistakes it is no wonder I lost. Was a great critique and I feel really honored that you would take the time. You, sir, are truly a gentlemen and a scholar. Just wanted to say thanks again, to everyone, for the great advice, the last few posts have been excellent. | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On December 14 2010 09:54 Touch wrote: I'd like to know how you win 9/10 of your TvT games... TvT like all mirror match ups is simply a strategic macro game non dependent on Counters. I win almost all my TvTs.  Back on Topic: I feel your Pain. I avoid the cheesey stuff, but the only builds that i've had decent success with: 1) FE into 4 raxes MM and 2 fact Tanks and 1 starport for Medis(Non reactor). 2) FE into mass Marine Medic adding Ghosts/ Blue Flame Hellions later on | ||
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Kcip
25 Posts
On December 14 2010 10:50 Scare_Crow wrote: I find 1-1-1 too defensive and fragile. Going for Hellion Drop Ship Harass and Banshees with Cloak into Thors and Tanks puts you at a very low unit count, so you're not safe to actually expand, which makes it hard to get the income necessary to support your mid-game. I go 3 Rax myself because it puts the Zerg on the defensive instead, and allows me to get up my expansion safely and force the Zerg to make combat units or else I will just kill them outright. Just Ling/Roach cannot beat 3 Rax 1/1, this forces him to usually go Banelings, which means he will not have the gas necessary to pump out a boatload of Mutas to wreck my economy even if he gets to Spire tech. I agree that it can be a bit defensive and there are some vulnerable spots early game while going for the expo. I'll usually throw down a couple bunkers with marines in them. I'll back it up with 1 or 2 tanks and that's usually enough to scare off any attack for that stage of the game. Realistically, the only thing they'll have at this point is zerglings/blings, or roaches. This is all dependent on successful harassment killing off a good number of drones. Obviously if you suicide 4 helions, the counter attack is going to be much more difficult to fend off. | ||
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Touch
Canada475 Posts
On December 14 2010 11:45 GinDo wrote: That doesn't explain a thing, what build do you normally go?TvT like all mirror match ups is simply a strategic macro game non dependent on Counters. I win almost all my TvTs. Back on Topic: I feel your Pain. I avoid the cheesey stuff, but the only builds that i've had decent success with: 1) FE into 4 raxes MM and 2 fact Tanks and 1 starport for Medis(Non reactor). 2) FE into mass Marine Medic adding Ghosts/ Blue Flame Hellions later on Okay...so TvZ is probably my best match up. As long as I don't fuck up on my part, win is usually guaranteed. - Standard opening into Factory (make Marine after Barracks is done) - Reactor on Barracks to swap onto Factory - Pump out pairs of Hellions. When the first pair is pumping, make a CC. - Once you have 4 Hellions, harass - During the harassment, take the second gas, swap Barracks back into the Reactor - Place the Factory somewhere else and make tech lab, while making another Factory - Make Marines/Tanks, and get Armory - Limit yourself to one Barracks, devote to mostly Thors/Siege Tanks/Hellions - Position well, use Thors to meatshield the Tanks - GG | ||
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