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I'm starting to get depressed that I struggle so much against zerg but I win 9/10 of my TvT matchups.
I can only seem to win with a marine bunker all-in or if I practically kill him with the 2 rax rush.
Could anyone help me? I'm trying to play harass and macro games vs zerg but I just keep getting pooped on.
I made a lot of little mistakes in this game like losing vikings uneccesarily and an couple unsieged tanks. Can anyone see anything in this matchup that I need to do differently or need to do a better job with or perhaps some examples of different strats I could use? tyia
It is not a horrible game and I hope it is entertaining. I apologize for my nerdrage over being bad with my tanks at the end.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/115004-1v1-terran-zerg-steppes-of-war
also my opponent main race was protoss = /
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1. create scvs till 10
2. create supply depot
3. create scvs till 13
4. build rax
5. scout (14)
6. build scv till 15
7. build 2nd rax
8. build OC and start spam making rines
9. continually build scv/rine and rally them to your opponent's base
10. when OC finish pull 10 scv, and u should have 5-8 rines and go allin the zerg.
11. you win/profit/free points/gz
User was temp banned for this post.
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On December 12 2010 07:54 Chairman Ray wrote:
Wrong link
fixed, ty
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On December 12 2010 07:54 majestouch wrote:
1. create scvs till 10
2. create supply depot
3. create scvs till 13
4. build rax
5. scout (14)
6. build scv till 15
7. build 2nd rax
8. build OC and start spam making rines
9. continually build scv/rine and rally them to your opponent's base
10. when OC finish pull 10 scv, and u should have 5-8 rines and go allin the zerg.
11. you win/profit/free points/gz
I want to get away from going all-in marine/scv because I feel like I'm not learning anything.
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hmmm. maybe watch some Jinro's games if you want to practice macro terran. his GSL 3 TvZs are pretty nice. I just finished watching him vs Moon. pretty nice. very good macro
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On December 12 2010 07:58 Logican wrote:
hmmm. maybe watch some Jinro's games if you want to practice macro terran. his GSL 3 TvZs are pretty nice. I just finished watching him vs Moon. pretty nice. very good macro
ill watch it again, I have been trying to play like that. regular pressure while macroing. I think my biggest blunder may have been my attack at the start, really horrible and I usually do a lot more damage.
If anyone can give me any other criticism it would be appreciated. tyia
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I've been dominating zerg with super harass! Reactor hellion into banshee. Its awesome and micro intensive. I started doing it after seeing some pro games. It took me a little bit to get use to it but now zergs are like instant wins even if the harass fails, they get thrown of their game. The biggest danger though is mutas but they can be easily stopped so long as stay on top of you macro while doing all the microing.
I can include more info if you're interested in this type of build.
Edit: Sorry no mention of you're replay I'm at work so I cant watch it yet.
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On December 12 2010 08:13 NadaSound wrote:
I've been dominating zerg with super harass! Reactor hellion into banshee. Its awesome and micro intensive. I started doing it after seeing some pro games. It took me a little bit to get use to it but now zergs are like instant wins even if the harass fails, they get thrown of their game. The biggest danger though is mutas but they can be easily stopped so long as stay on top of you macro while doing all the microing.
I can include more info if you're interested in this type of build.
Edit: Sorry no mention of you're replay I'm at work so I cant watch it yet.
Thanks, I saw tarson do something like that but he ended up losing that game. Yeah, that would be great if you had some more info on it or a replay. I probably do need to use hellions more.
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Just watching the replay, writing the mistakes there as i see them jumping back and forth in the replay:
1. No worker produced after constructing the OC. Between 4:00 and 5:30
2. Between Minute 12 and 25 you only produce 3-4 workers.
3. You responded to his mutalisk attack by throwing down 11 turrets, far too many,
4. You stick to pure MMM far too long, against mutalisks you need thors.
5. You never get upgrades while he had 2-1 on his zerglings and banelings.
6. You were BM at the end and projected your lack of good macro on Terran being underpowered.
7. You scouted his spire when his mutalisks already did the damage. Use scans to find out his tech choice.
The attacks were ok-ish, but because you were behind in worker count all the time - starting with 3 workers behind around 5 minutes to 24 workers behind most of the rest of the game - they were far too small, you could always have twice the units.
The game was lost when you didn't produce workers after getting the OC, after that you had to try to catch up - for example by using hellion drops to reduce his worker count and getting more workers yourself - but didn't.
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You can win a macro game vs zerg but its all about controlling territory.
Sending a stimmed marine or multiple scvs ahead to scout where the zergs army is can give you enough time to siege your tanks and the knowledge of where to siege them.
With this positition secured you can now use ravens or scans to clear up nearby creep tumors.
Then stim into the zerg and get a hit or two in and retreat to your tanks and start to push by slowly crawling tanks or back off and use a drop or two at the main or expansions while grabbing your 3rd.
After your next base is secured (turrets PF) you can push again using the same scouting patterns, siege wall, then creep tumor destruction, constant protection of your siege tanks is a must as mass mutas will wipe your tanks and leave you out in the open to a mass of lings and banelings.
Zergs dont want to engage off creep and Terrans dont want to lose there army cause they are out of the siege range. By playing a slower more tactical game you can accept all the zerg agression and dictate the flow of the game by limiting their creep and getting in the shots you need before backing off. Over commiting is the worse thing you can do vs Zerg and mismicroing my marines and mauraders have cost me games as well as not defending my tanks while being aggressive and even though it was a battle i could have won zerg can just retreated and snipe all my tanks before coming back for a complete wipe (-_-).
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On December 12 2010 08:41 Morfildur wrote:
Just watching the replay, writing the mistakes there as i see them jumping back and forth in the replay:
1. No worker produced after constructing the OC. Between 4:00 and 5:30
2. Between Minute 12 and 25 you only produce 3-4 workers.
3. You responded to his mutalisk attack by throwing down 11 turrets, far too many,
4. You stick to pure MMM far too long, against mutalisks you need thors.
5. You never get upgrades while he had 2-1 on his zerglings and banelings.
6. You were BM at the end and projected your lack of good macro on Terran being underpowered.
7. You scouted his spire when his mutalisks already did the damage. Use scans to find out his tech choice.
The attacks were ok-ish, but because you were behind in worker count all the time - starting with 3 workers behind around 5 minutes to 24 workers behind most of the rest of the game - they were far too small, you could always have twice the units.
The game was lost when you didn't produce workers after getting the OC, after that you had to try to catch up - for example by using hellion drops to reduce his worker count and getting more workers yourself - but didn't.
As stated above, I would put emphasis on the importance of macroing workers, and stress the important of upgrades in games. Your DPS of marines increasingly greatly when you upgrade your units. As well, if i recall correctly, you need +1(seige) to 1 shot zerglings with +1 carapace, without upgrades, your seige tanks are 2 hitting mobs of zerglings, which is not the best way to go about things.
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regarding the upgrade problem, im constantly forgetting to upgrade, so what ive started doing is to force myself to make 2 eng bays at around 25-30 food and start upgrading those immediately. then of course wen i get siege tanks, i force myself to build an armory to get the +1 so i can 1shot lings if i need to.
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1) You didn't cancel your bunker, and you were supply blocked at 19 food for a long time. Making mistakes such early game when you don't have much money and you only have a few units is huge.
2) you know he's going speedling (gas/pool b4 FE). Your marine micro isn't good enough to take on a round of zerglings. It's good to push out to force lings, but if you see he doesn't have an expansion, you're in the lead. Either expo before he does, or throw a few more rax up and pump units. Either way, just pull back, and wait for him to try to take his expo. He'll be weakest in relation to you not when his expansion has just gone down, but when his expansion is just about to complete. Imagine your second push with the 5 marines that died at the beginning, and I think you'd have won there.
3) attacking into creep is scary. Terran is scariest with slow, methodical pushes. Don't just run onto creep. Establish a good position, and then slowly push out. Don't just run your units onto creep.
4) timing attacks. Don't just run your units into your opponent whenever you want to. You want to attack when your stronger than your opponent. If you invest in tech/upgrades, you are BEHIND until the upgrades finish or you get higher tech units. But once the upgrades finish, or higher tech units come out you are AHEAD, as ur army is that much stronger. One of your pushes, you pushed out when siege mode was about to finish. But you only had 1 tank, and you didn't even bring the tank with you. After investing so much in the factory,tank, and siege, your army is going to be weaker than his if you don't push out with those units.
Don't push out randomly. Have a plan for when you want to pressure, triggered by events that signal that your army is prob. stronger than his army (after this unit pops, after this upgrade pops, after you see he has an expansion that's almost ready, if he invests in a spire, etc.)
That's the basics of the SC strategy. Other than that, just macro, macro, macro.
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On December 12 2010 08:41 Morfildur wrote:
Just watching the replay, writing the mistakes there as i see them jumping back and forth in the replay:
1. No worker produced after constructing the OC. Between 4:00 and 5:30
2. Between Minute 12 and 25 you only produce 3-4 workers.
3. You responded to his mutalisk attack by throwing down 11 turrets, far too many,
4. You stick to pure MMM far too long, against mutalisks you need thors.
5. You never get upgrades while he had 2-1 on his zerglings and banelings.
6. You were BM at the end and projected your lack of good macro on Terran being underpowered.
7. You scouted his spire when his mutalisks already did the damage. Use scans to find out his tech choice.
The attacks were ok-ish, but because you were behind in worker count all the time - starting with 3 workers behind around 5 minutes to 24 workers behind most of the rest of the game - they were far too small, you could always have twice the units.
The game was lost when you didn't produce workers after getting the OC, after that you had to try to catch up - for example by using hellion drops to reduce his worker count and getting more workers yourself - but didn't.
Thank you for that, I agree pretty much everything. You said I should make more SCVs and I was wondering if you would not do that if you were just trying to finish him off on 2 base?
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Thanks a lot for the great replies, I got something valuable from every post. You guys made my day. Long live TL.net!
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On December 12 2010 09:16 frumpylumps wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 08:41 Morfildur wrote:
Just watching the replay, writing the mistakes there as i see them jumping back and forth in the replay:
1. No worker produced after constructing the OC. Between 4:00 and 5:30
2. Between Minute 12 and 25 you only produce 3-4 workers.
3. You responded to his mutalisk attack by throwing down 11 turrets, far too many,
4. You stick to pure MMM far too long, against mutalisks you need thors.
5. You never get upgrades while he had 2-1 on his zerglings and banelings.
6. You were BM at the end and projected your lack of good macro on Terran being underpowered.
7. You scouted his spire when his mutalisks already did the damage. Use scans to find out his tech choice.
The attacks were ok-ish, but because you were behind in worker count all the time - starting with 3 workers behind around 5 minutes to 24 workers behind most of the rest of the game - they were far too small, you could always have twice the units.
The game was lost when you didn't produce workers after getting the OC, after that you had to try to catch up - for example by using hellion drops to reduce his worker count and getting more workers yourself - but didn't.
Thank you for that, I agree pretty much everything. You said I should make more SCVs and I was wondering if you would not do that if you were just trying to finish him off on 2 base?
Well by 12 minutes your 2 base timing window is starting to close very quickly. Past 12 mins you either need to consider going all in or getting your 3rd up very quickly.
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If you can deny the FE and keep the zerg on one base until you get your own expo up, if you haven't won the game by then, then you will at least be light years ahead.
I'm about 1800 diamond skill-wise, and simply by using a somewhat meticulously-timed 2rax bunker rush (blocking the bottom of their ramp in), getting my expo up, and moving into 4rax (2 tech, 2 reactors) and 1 factory, I'm at a roughly 80% win-rate against Zerg.
The trick is, as I said, denying the expansion. By keeping them on one base, they're forced to sacrifice economy for military units, and they've really only got 2 options: Banelings or Roaches.
If he goes Banelings, you'll need some darn good micro but should otherwise feel safe: he may kill a LOT of your units, but what has he got left? A lot of wasted larvae. Banelings don't win games, they even out the playing field. If he keeps making banelings, his economy and the rest of his military will take a severe dip. I mean, provided you've got the marauders and/or tanks to, well, tank the banelings, you should come out on top.
If he goes Roaches, you probably don't even need the tanks: by the time he has enough to break your contain, you should have marauders pumping out and either beat him back into his base and win the game outright, or just pull back and wait for him to expand. He'll likely choose to drone at that point, and as soon as you scout the expo you should push.
If he goes for anything higher up the tech tree, by the time you're ready to push in for the kill he just won't have enough to hold you off (unless we're talking about Infestors, in which case you should just spread your units like you would with banelings, FF them and make the Zerg bash his head against his desk because he just lost a bunch of highly gas-intensive units and doesn't have enough for banes and roaches anymore.
I've got replays if you want them, too lazy to post 'em.
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If he fast expands, try fast expanding yourself and doing a 3/4 rax stim timing. Theres a lot of variants of the build, so just pick one and learn it.
It kills zergs who power too hard and gives you a pretty nice transition into a tank game.
The match ups evolving so fast though, couldn't say if this is still viable at the top levels. Try playing around with early expands and fast stim timing attacks though.
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You can push out with 4 marines at high levels because Zergs typically only have ~2-4 zerglings at this time. You can rally a hellion to those marines, which will force a ton of zerglings and the hellion will kill a ton of zerglings. You should be ahead after that. That's something to do if you can handle the multitasking but otherwise just play defensively with mech. Get a reactor and a techlab on your baracks to get stim. Get on 2 bases. Get a hand ful of marauders and a ton of marines and a couple thors and ~5 tanks. Now push out. Be reallllllly slow about it, siegeing your tanks in a line moving towards him and leapfrogging the backones forward. If he runs in with banelings use control + click to select all your marines if they arent on a second hotkey and run them all away. Put up your third during this. Most zergs at low levels will suicide all there units into your tanks once you get close enough. Make sure your seiged! After that decide if ya wanna go for the main or for an expansion.
Pre emptively build 1 turret at each mineral line at approximately 6-8 minutes into the game. Add 1-2 more (depending on how late the game is) when you push out.
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How I usually beat Zerg is block of my ramp with two supply depots and a barracks. I first build my supply depot then baracks. During the time my baracks is building I build two refinery's to mine gas. When baracks is done another supply depot to block off. When I have enough gas I build a factory. Right after the factory I get my starport. Tech lab the starport when it's done and get cloak. Build two banshees or 1 and harass minerals and expo. With the factory also get blue-flame and you pretty much counter zerg for the early game. Make sure you have marines with stim though and more then one baracks.
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Personally, I enjoy opening 2 rax pressure into expand. The 2 rax opening is really ambiguous.
Sometimes, a 2 rax with bunker and good micro is enough to win the game
e.g http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/115110-1v1-terran-zerg-metalopolis
or you can opt to expand and play a macro game
e.g http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/115111-1v1-terran-zerg-metalopolis
In the 2nd replay, I went for MM + tank. Like the previous posters, I stress getting your upgrades. You'll notice that I was 3-2 i believe by end game. Marines stim and tanks in the back destroys even ultras. You just gotta make sure to always hit the zerg expo instead of going straight for the main. Usually around the end game, their main is mined out so its pointless to kill it.
edit: These are 2.2k level
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The main thing you want to do is either put on Fake or Real pressure, Going in with a macrogame zerg (Any decent one) will result in 99% losses. So harras, Send in your army just to kill some creep tumors and leave, Or do drops regulary, Other than that try to deny expansions as much as you can.
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On December 12 2010 13:13 BuuGhost wrote:
The main thing you want to do is either put on Fake or Real pressure, Going in with a macrogame zerg (Any decent one) will result in 99% losses. So harras, Send in your army just to kill some creep tumors and leave, Or do drops regulary, Other than that try to deny expansions as much as you can.
Playing a macro game with a zerg is not 99% loss. The thing with zerg macro is that you have to constantly deny their drone count while you build up that death ball of army.
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What i like to do against zerg, which works about 60/40 for me (mid diamond level) is mass marines with raven and medivac support.
It works very well, since marines are no gas, and ravens and medivacs are mostly gas.
Wouldn't reccomend this if you're like bronze though, wwhat league are you in? (facepalm if you said it and i missed it)
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In the same boat, about to quit this game because of this stupid MU. Every game is the same shit. Sling/bling/muta. You try and 2 rax pressure it doesnt work most Z's can defend easy now. Then once 12 plus mutas are out its over. You will be in your base for the rest of the game. You either sac your base and go all in to win. Or you watch him get 4 base and roffle stomp you. Havent won a legit actual mid/end game TvZ in forever unless my oppenant makes a huge error. Im just going to start doing 5 fac mech again, Ill prolly lose about 75% of my games but at least Ill have fun doing it rather than dancing marines every single damn game.
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I didn't actually read anyones post except for the first post, but I'd just like to tell you that the openings and so on can easily decide the rest of the game in a TvZ because of the macro capabilities of zerg. You want to try to end the game before it gets to saturated 3base for the zerg or more, because from there on it gets way too difficult to handle and a single mistake can lose your entire army to banelings.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/115130-1v1-terran-zerg-steppes-of-war
this is a 2200 zvt, not a really high level or anything. Please ignore the drone harrass as after the 4 drone harras the game went on to what it would reguarly have turned out to be.
I've had much MUCH better games where the bunker rush goes so great that it ends the game right there, and these are all 2200+ games.
I didn't get to fully watch your replay, I just watched the beginning to see what you opened up with and it didnt look too good so I just continued to post here. brb watching
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Yo, Frumpylumps (love the name) I took a look at your replay and made a vod reviewing it. I thought you had some good ideas when pushing but it didn't quite work with your general game plan of making it into the late game with an economic advantage (from fast expanding). I respect that you don't just want to do marine all-ins quite a bit so I thought I'd take look.
Heres the video: HardCorey QuestionTime #15: TvZ Keeping up in the Late Game against Zerg
My Main Thread
Hope this helps,
-HardCorey
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I'd like to know how you win 9/10 of your TvT games...
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Id basically like to point out that your macro needs some work, you need constant scv production to keep up with a zerg, also dont get supply blocked early game, then you gotta make sure once u use a scv to set rally point back to minerals or build nxt building(Shift Rightclick or Shift B or V and building). you had alot of idle scvs most of that game. ALso You need some sorta map control.. you never once gained control of xel'naga towers which imo is very important because u can then drop freely on your oppenent and he doesnt know its coming. i Also like to build 1 Viking b4 mutas come out to clear overlords outside of my base.
So my overall suggestions to you is practice your macro it seems to be your weakpoint. You do good at producing units but scvs are kinda slacking and ur idle scvs are a big problem.
Next thing to work on is ur micro u sent 10marines to do an early push and there were 2 Banglings morphing a simple attack click on those 2 banglings and that attack would've done 2x the dmg... you prolly woulda gotta a queen and 3-4 drones cause ur zerg oppenent wasnt even ready for that attack.
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Another thing is your BOrder , as a suggestion try this instead if your oppenent is going ling heavy i open with 2 rax no gas, push with about 10 marines.
SO BO IS
1.2 Rax no gas pump till 10 marines
2. at about 4:15 drop your CC Using it as part of your wall 2 Rax + CC in Center this prevents all BBust.
3. At 5:30 Double Gas Then make 2 factorys once u get the gass for each one make them ASAP
4. Your first factory finnishes put down a techlab and reasearch Blue flame for helions
5. 2nd factory add a reactor and build 2 helions out of your techlab then swap to tanks should be right when reactor finnishes. pump 2 more helions from reactor. During this time be producing non-stop Scvs+ marines.
6. Make a push with the 4 Blueflame helions and the amount of marines u have should be like anywhere from 10-20.
7. Make starport and 3rd factory and a armory when you have the gas and start pumping non-stop Siege tanks and Turret up b4 the 10:00 mark because of mutas.
8. At about the 12:00 mark im upgrading both tanks/marines and using blue flame helion drops + marine/tank/helion/thor pushes to expand/stop my oppenent from expanding.
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if you scout the 14 hatch just pressure with your rines and then force him to make lings while your expanding then go whatever is comfortable. You should abuse ravens, ravens are sooo good i have no idea why noone uses them. auto turrets for sniping buildings and its a huge nuisense and hunter seeker for mutas.
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=113326
You can try Fallen's 3 rax 1/0 Combat Shield timing push, which is giving me a very good win ratio against low level diamond (I'm 1600). Marauders can soak up an incredible amount of Bling damage (I think they only deal 19 damage to Marauders), so having ~3 Marauders in front of your ~15 Marines work wonders, especially when you engage on the ramp and your Marauders clog it up.
If you spread your Marines into little clumps, or just make them into a line instead of a ball once the fight starts, you can minimize Bling damage, and that's usually enough to let you push for his natural before the 8 minute mark.
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I'm surprised no one suggested going 111 against Zerg. I find it extremely effective and gives you the versatility to basically counter any attack they have.
Most Zerg will go for an early FE. Put a reactor on your rax and then swap with your factor. I almost always go helions to drop ship harrass. This is even more effective if they're going for a baneling bust as you've already countered their attack. Zerg will typically go into roaches. Mutas are a little bit more difficult as they probably don't have the gas at this point to support this. You should already have been teching to cloaked banshees for even more harrass or a kill. Once you see the spire go up protect your mineral lines with turrets and start pumping thors mixed in with some tanks. This is a very gas dependent build and you'll need to expand relatively early to support 3 or 4 factories pumping siege.
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On December 14 2010 10:45 Kcip wrote:
I'm surprised no one suggested going 111 against Zerg. I find it extremely effective and gives you the versatility to basically counter any attack they have.
Most Zerg will go for an early FE. Put a reactor on your rax and then swap with your factor. I almost always go helions to drop ship harrass. This is even more effective if they're going for a baneling bust as you've already countered their attack. Zerg will typically go into roaches. Mutas are a little bit more difficult as they probably don't have the gas at this point to support this. You should already have been teching to cloaked banshees for even more harrass or a kill. Once you see the spire go up protect your mineral lines with turrets and start pumping thors mixed in with some tanks. This is a very gas dependent build and you'll need to expand relatively early to support 3 or 4 factories pumping siege.
I find 1-1-1 too defensive and fragile. Going for Hellion Drop Ship Harass and Banshees with Cloak into Thors and Tanks puts you at a very low unit count, so you're not safe to actually expand, which makes it hard to get the income necessary to support your mid-game.
I go 3 Rax myself because it puts the Zerg on the defensive instead, and allows me to get up my expansion safely and force the Zerg to make combat units or else I will just kill them outright. Just Ling/Roach cannot beat 3 Rax 1/1, this forces him to usually go Banelings, which means he will not have the gas necessary to pump out a boatload of Mutas to wreck my economy even if he gets to Spire tech.
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On December 14 2010 09:46 HardCorey wrote:Yo, Frumpylumps (love the name) I took a look at your replay and made a vod reviewing it. I thought you had some good ideas when pushing but it didn't quite work with your general game plan of making it into the late game with an economic advantage (from fast expanding). I respect that you don't just want to do marine all-ins quite a bit so I thought I'd take look. Heres the video: HardCorey QuestionTime #15: TvZ Keeping up in the Late Game against ZergMy Main ThreadHope this helps, -HardCorey
Hey, thanks a lots for that advice HardCorey, it was very helpful and informative. I had to laugh when you said "I don't know what to say" after you saw those first two painfully mismanaged attacks. Usually my control isn't so utterly horrible and I do a lot more damage. I remember thinking after that first attack, "well that was a total waste".
After watching your vid, I realize I made so many mistakes it is no wonder I lost. Was a great critique and I feel really honored that you would take the time. You, sir, are truly a gentlemen and a scholar.
Just wanted to say thanks again, to everyone, for the great advice, the last few posts have been excellent.
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On December 14 2010 09:54 Touch wrote:
I'd like to know how you win 9/10 of your TvT games...
TvT like all mirror match ups is simply a strategic macro game non dependent on Counters. I win almost all my TvTs. 
Back on Topic:
I feel your Pain. I avoid the cheesey stuff, but the only builds that i've had decent success with:
1) FE into 4 raxes MM and 2 fact Tanks and 1 starport for Medis(Non reactor).
2) FE into mass Marine Medic adding Ghosts/ Blue Flame Hellions later on
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On December 14 2010 10:50 Scare_Crow wrote:
I find 1-1-1 too defensive and fragile. Going for Hellion Drop Ship Harass and Banshees with Cloak into Thors and Tanks puts you at a very low unit count, so you're not safe to actually expand, which makes it hard to get the income necessary to support your mid-game.
I go 3 Rax myself because it puts the Zerg on the defensive instead, and allows me to get up my expansion safely and force the Zerg to make combat units or else I will just kill them outright. Just Ling/Roach cannot beat 3 Rax 1/1, this forces him to usually go Banelings, which means he will not have the gas necessary to pump out a boatload of Mutas to wreck my economy even if he gets to Spire tech.
I agree that it can be a bit defensive and there are some vulnerable spots early game while going for the expo. I'll usually throw down a couple bunkers with marines in them. I'll back it up with 1 or 2 tanks and that's usually enough to scare off any attack for that stage of the game. Realistically, the only thing they'll have at this point is zerglings/blings, or roaches. This is all dependent on successful harassment killing off a good number of drones. Obviously if you suicide 4 helions, the counter attack is going to be much more difficult to fend off.
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On December 14 2010 11:45 GinDo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2010 09:54 Touch wrote:
I'd like to know how you win 9/10 of your TvT games... TvT like all mirror match ups is simply a strategic macro game non dependent on Counters. I win almost all my TvTs. Back on Topic: I feel your Pain. I avoid the cheesey stuff, but the only builds that i've had decent success with: 1) FE into 4 raxes MM and 2 fact Tanks and 1 starport for Medis(Non reactor). 2) FE into mass Marine Medic adding Ghosts/ Blue Flame Hellions later on That doesn't explain a thing, what build do you normally go?
Okay...so TvZ is probably my best match up. As long as I don't fuck up on my part, win is usually guaranteed.
- Standard opening into Factory (make Marine after Barracks is done)
- Reactor on Barracks to swap onto Factory
- Pump out pairs of Hellions. When the first pair is pumping, make a CC.
- Once you have 4 Hellions, harass
- During the harassment, take the second gas, swap Barracks back into the Reactor
- Place the Factory somewhere else and make tech lab, while making another Factory
- Make Marines/Tanks, and get Armory
- Limit yourself to one Barracks, devote to mostly Thors/Siege Tanks/Hellions
- Position well, use Thors to meatshield the Tanks
- GG
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EPT
