On September 12 2012 22:50 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 12 2012 22:31 Mephy wrote:
On September 12 2012 22:27 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 12 2012 22:15 Mephy wrote: Some posts in here that call Islam a "violent religion" are really fucking depressing. And I'm not even Muslim, I'm Christian. I sincerely hope people are able to make the distinction between a violent religion and fanatical extremists.
Islam at its roots is no more violent than any other religion in the world. I ask those who claim that Islam preaches violence - where exactly in the Quran does it call out for Muslims to actively murder and kill other non-Muslims? I can assure you that there are much, much more passages committed to spreading the message of peace and forgiveness. And please, please don't take messages out of context like the idiot on the previous page.
Some of the Muslims may have acted out of anger that someone insulted their religion, and you can argue that their killing was motivated by their interpretation of Islam. But in that case, why aren't the rest of the 1.6 billion Muslims picking up their rocket launchers and going to war? You're looking at a very small group of fanatics (relatively) with their own warped interpretation of Islam, not the vast majority of the Muslim population, and then suddenly you decide its alright to label the entire Islamic religion as violent?
Want to stop the senseless killings and promote peace? Well you guys sure aren't helping with your uneducated comments. How about you start by understanding other religions and stop perpetuating these stereotypes?
[3.151] We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.
[4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
[5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,
[8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
[8.39] And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.
[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
[9.111] Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain; a promise which is binding on Him in the Taurat and the Injeel and the Quran; and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Rejoice therefore in the pledge which you have made; and that is the mighty achievement.
Now that you've found those, why don't you compile a list of passages that talk about peace and equality? Then we can find some sort of ratio and determine if Islam is violent.
You act as if there is some sort of mental tug of war in the minds of these murderers and terrorists. But if you've actually watched any of their propaganda you'd know there is no such conflict, they are absolutely clear-headed that Islam and the Quran justifies suicide bombings and murders. The ratio of good-to-bad is not part of their mental calculus. Why do these people keep talking about Allah, Islam, and slaughtering infidels? Could it be because religion has everything to do with their reasoning?
And it is these types of hateful and intolerant teachings that allows them to justify to themselves why it is acceptable to kill someone else for blasphemy. If you deny that Islam is the primary source of their murderous outrage, then what is it?
You say that these murderers have a warped view of Islam. Then why aren't there similarly warped views of Christianity that leads to suicide bombings? Could it be that Islam is more forcefully intolerant and hateful than Christianity?
And in the face of these atrocities, what do you do? Nothing. No condemnation. You write as if we should just open our arms to accept these primitives who believe in a religion that calls for the murder of nonbelievers and blasphemers. Let's welcome these people who are from the most theocratic and intolerant places on planet Earth, pretending that there is absolutely nothing wrong with what they believe, despite that the fact that this religion has bred suicide bombers, religious fanatics, and murderous mobs like nowhere else in the modern world. What could possibly go wrong? Remember Madrid? London?
You know very well that it is not just religion that causes these people to go out murdering others. I would put my money on Christians going out chopping off heads if they were oppressed as a lot of these Muslim nations have been. U.S.-backed dictators who slaughter innocent civilians? Yeah, that's totally okay.
I will never justify suicide bombing; I will always deem it barbaric and tragic. But if you think America does not have its fair share of blame, you are sorely mistaken.
Anyone who imagines that terrestrial concerns account for Muslim terrorism must answer questions of the following sort: Where are the Tibetan Buddhist suicide bombers? The Tibetans have suffered an occupation far more brutal, and far more cynical, than any that Britain, the United States, or Israel have ever imposed upon the Muslim world. Where are the throngs of Tibetans ready to perpetrate suicidal atrocities against Chinese noncombatants? They do not exist. What is the difference that makes the difference? The difference lies in the specific tenets of Islam. This is not to say that Buddhism could not help inspire suicidal violence. It can, and it has (Japan, World War II). But this concedes absolutely nothing to the apologists for Islam. As a Buddhist, one has to work extremely hard to justify such barbarism. One need not work nearly so hard as a Muslim. The truth that we must finally confront is that Islam contains specific notions of martyrdom and jihad that fully explain the character of Muslim violence. Unless the world’s Muslims can find some way of expunging the metaphysics that is fast turning their religion into a cult of death, we will ultimately face the same perversely destructive behavior throughout much of the world.
We are now mired in a religious war in Iraq and elsewhere. Our enemies--as witnessed by their astonishing willingness to slaughter themselves--are not principally motivated by political or economic grievances. How many more architects and electrical engineers must fly planes into buildings before we realize that the problem of Muslim extremism is not merely a matter of education? How many more middle-class British citizens must blow themselves up along with scores of noncombatants before we acknowledge that Muslim terrorism is not matter of poverty or political oppression?
I can say that I'm not muslim, but I'm pretty sure I would fight back, if I could. I'm not buddhist either, but history shows that you do not need religion to justify defending your loved ones and your country.
Attacks against freedom of speech (and other freedoms) I do not tolerate what-so-ever. But I do not agree with your logic. It isn't complete.
It's time to realize that electing a president friendly to the region does fuck all. It was pure ignorance to view the Arab Spring as a positive in any way. The way the Middle East is being handled is so dysfunctional and amateur. I can only hope the U.S. doesn't start being "friendly" to Russia in the same way. Some countries hate the U.S. for legitimate reasons, stop pretending like they want to be friends.
On September 12 2012 19:57 Eisregen wrote: OK let's look at the facts:
Online film about islam, also equalling it with "cancer" Anyone surprised some religious dudes snapped? -No, not really.
Man, one should know, that things like this can happen, especially as simple-minded believers are ppl you won't be able to discuss anything with. They will just break out in anger and kill you.
Christianity gets bashed all the time, no rockets fired at people.
Fact of the matter is Islam is extremly intolerant and paranoid about critisism ( justified, or as in this case rubbish)
Muhammed cartoons > Riots Muhammed movie > riots African teddy bear named muhammed > Riots
Such a downright violent religion, and people wonder why its known as the religion of violence and opression
WE (Christians) laugh at ourselves, Muslims laugh at us - we don't care Muslims don't parody/laugh at themselves, we laugh at them - they care and angry
And if Jew laughs from Muslim - Muslim very sad.
I guess people just are not meant to understand others.
On September 13 2012 03:45 maliceee wrote: It's time to realize that electing a president friendly to the region does fuck all. It was pure ignorance to view the Arab Spring as a positive in any way. The way the Middle East is being handled is so dysfunctional and amateur. I can only hope the U.S. doesn't start being "friendly" to Russia in the same way. Some countries hate the U.S. for legitimate reasons, stop pretending like they want to be friends.
How are we supposed to make them our friends if we don't extend an olive branch? Even after this I'm not going to advocate violence towards Libya or the Middle East. I just want to get out of there. Also, the current president has talked friendship, but our troops are still present in the middle east. Have to walk the walk as well as talk the talk.
This movie-producer has admitted that he knew the ramifications for this.
I would not protest if this guy were tried for treason in U.S. court. It is an inflammatory movie, made by someone who calls himself Israeli, and he created it with the admitted purpose of inciting violence. Free speech does not cover hate speech.
I'm so tired of these people. I really am. It bothers me on either side. We should NOT be pro-Israel, we should be pro-secularism and pro-peace. If you want to make Israeli, anti-Muslim propaganda pieces in hopes that it provokes violence, than please get the hell away from me and my countrymen. Go to "the Promised Land", "defend" yourself from the infidels, kill each other, just get it over with and leave OTHERS OUT OF IT. Don't cry to me about how tough Israel has it in response to my indifference. Israel ultimately chose that land to live on for religious purposes, and my supposed secular country has paid for it on their behalf with way more lives and blood than such "sacred" garbage is worth.
On September 13 2012 03:45 maliceee wrote: It's time to realize that electing a president friendly to the region does fuck all. It was pure ignorance to view the Arab Spring as a positive in any way. The way the Middle East is being handled is so dysfunctional and amateur. I can only hope the U.S. doesn't start being "friendly" to Russia in the same way. Some countries hate the U.S. for legitimate reasons, stop pretending like they want to be friends.
How are we supposed to make them our friends if we don't extend an olive branch? Even after this I'm not going to advocate violence towards Libya or the Middle East. I just want to get out of there. Also, the current president has talked friendship, but our troops are still present in the middle east. Have to walk the walk as well as talk the talk.
There are troops in the middle-east (Libya isn't in the middle-east, it is North-Africa), we withdraw them.
Alright, all the troops are gone from the middle-east, what now? Well, there are still those pesky Jews, and what about those Shia muslims?
But imagine, for a moment, that they don't destroy Israel or Iran.
All the troops are back home. A cartoon is published. We are made to pay.
What did we expect? We made a cartoon, we stepped over the line they made, we went too far, now we must be punished.
A dozen will die, perhaps in a terrorist attack, perhaps just a crazy gunman, regardless, some of us are going to be executed and murdered because we dared to insult their religion.
Give up, if that is what is in your heart, surrender with zeal, but don't surrender for me.
I'm not going to hand over my freedom of speech to the first theocrat or totalitarian that knocks on my door. Come and pry is from my cold dead fucking hands.
This movie-producer has admitted that he knew the ramifications for this.
I would not protest if this guy were tried for treason in U.S. court. It is an inflammatory movie, made by someone who calls himself Israeli, and he created it with the admitted purpose of inciting violence. Free speech does not cover hate speech.
So if I go out and kill someone, because I find your post to be attacking freedom of speech, something that I consider sacred, would you be thrown in jail for hate speech?
I mean, your post made me go out and kill someone, shouldn't you be censored and tried for treason?
On September 13 2012 05:03 Leporello wrote: This movie-producer has admitted that he knew the ramifications for this.
I would not protest if this guy were tried for treason in U.S. court. It is an inflammatory movie, made by someone who calls himself Israeli, and he created it with the admitted purpose of inciting violence. Free speech does not cover hate speech.
Yes it does.
The KKK is allowed to march in the streets and shout white power, the Westboro morons are allowed to say whatever crazy things they want about gays.
And thank goodness for it.
Do you really want the government having the authority to decided what ideas and beliefs people are allowed to have?
On September 13 2012 03:45 maliceee wrote: It's time to realize that electing a president friendly to the region does fuck all. It was pure ignorance to view the Arab Spring as a positive in any way. The way the Middle East is being handled is so dysfunctional and amateur. I can only hope the U.S. doesn't start being "friendly" to Russia in the same way. Some countries hate the U.S. for legitimate reasons, stop pretending like they want to be friends.
Huh? Less Americans died in the Middle East under Obama's watch than under Bush. McCain, the alternative to Obama, wanted to (a) send ground troops into Libya and (b) start bombing Syria. And the Republican establishment went out of its way to attack Obama for not getting involved into Libya quicker and with more troops, before shutting up because they realized that Obama's response was both measured and popular.
So I guess I am confused as to what would have been a 'better' way to handle the situation in the Middle East since America (a) needs oil to be relatively cheap (b) cannot go against Israel because a large segment of the America voting population either (i) believes that Jesus Christ will come back to Earth once all the Jews move back to Israel and therefore Israel must be supported at all costs or (ii) are Jewish-Americans who have strong pro-Israeli leanings no matter what and live in key electoral states like Florida
People need to realize that there is no magic button that a US President can press that would stop a large group of poorly educated and angry young people from hating America. And while it would make you feel temporarily better, and fuel your revenge fantasies, to imagine some sort of air or naval bombardment it would change nothing. Israel has been bombarding Gaza for decades now and fundamentally nothing has changed. For the last 50 years these people have been under the propaganda of various dictators, who find it convenient to blame America for the crap situation in those countries, or various Islamic leaders, who armed with petro dollars from Saudi Arabia do the same AND blame America for dictators too. Giving them freedom will not magically turn them into Average Joe American, who likes the rule of law and freedom.
Democracy in the Middle East inevitably will lead to a period of governments that are more outright hostile to America than the dictators they replaced. The point of supporting democracy in the middle east is that when the locals see that angry clerics making them cover up their women and pray to their God doesnt magically fix the unemployment in inflation they will elect people who offer more than empty angry rhetoric. Islamism as a democratic ideal clearly has failed in Iran and the current regime is forced to be as vicious and repressive as the Shah that it overthrew. And that makes sense because normal people are results oriented and when every dictate of a religion is followed and the all powerful and all knowing god still sits back while inflation gallops to 30% people start asking whether it wouldnt be better to engage in some pragmatic policy making instead of just blind faith. Of course, as Republicans keep getting re-elected in America this might be a forlorn hope on my side.
On September 13 2012 05:03 Leporello wrote: This movie-producer has admitted that he knew the ramifications for this.
I would not protest if this guy were tried for treason in U.S. court. It is an inflammatory movie, made by someone who calls himself Israeli, and he created it with the admitted purpose of inciting violence. Free speech does not cover hate speech.
Yes, it does.
Not if it incites violence. This guy admitted that he expected violent retribution to his films. It'd be one thing if he put himself out there as the target, but he made others the target.
On September 13 2012 05:03 Leporello wrote: This movie-producer has admitted that he knew the ramifications for this.
I would not protest if this guy were tried for treason in U.S. court. It is an inflammatory movie, made by someone who calls himself Israeli, and he created it with the admitted purpose of inciting violence. Free speech does not cover hate speech.
Yes it does.
The KKK is allowed to march in the streets and shout white power, the Westboro morons are allowed to say whatever crazy things they want about gays.
And thank goodness for it.
Do you really want the government having the authority to decided what ideas and beliefs people are allowed to have?
I'm glad there's some sense in this thread. Whatever happened to "I don't agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"?
On September 12 2012 19:57 Eisregen wrote: OK let's look at the facts:
Online film about islam, also equalling it with "cancer" Anyone surprised some religious dudes snapped? -No, not really.
Man, one should know, that things like this can happen, especially as simple-minded believers are ppl you won't be able to discuss anything with. They will just break out in anger and kill you.
Christianity gets bashed all the time, no rockets fired at people.
Fact of the matter is Islam is extremly intolerant and paranoid about critisism ( justified, or as in this case rubbish)
Muhammed cartoons > Riots Muhammed movie > riots African teddy bear named muhammed > Riots
Such a downright violent religion, and people wonder why its known as the religion of violence and opression
WE (Christians) laugh at ourselves, Muslims laugh at us - we don't care Muslims don't parody/laugh at themselves, we laugh at them - they care and angry
And if Jew laughs from Muslim - Muslim very sad.
I guess people just are not meant to understand others.
Here are Muslims laughing at themselves in English (there are Arab language comedians too, but I presume you dont understand them)
On September 13 2012 05:03 Leporello wrote: This movie-producer has admitted that he knew the ramifications for this.
I would not protest if this guy were tried for treason in U.S. court. It is an inflammatory movie, made by someone who calls himself Israeli, and he created it with the admitted purpose of inciting violence. Free speech does not cover hate speech.
Yes, it does.
Not if it incites violence. This guy admitted that he expected violent retribution to his films. It'd be one thing if he put himself out there as the target, but he made others the target.
What if I say "I demand all abortion ends or I'll kill people" and someone puts out a pro-abortion ad, which causes me to go kill someone, should they be put into jail for inciting violence?
You just don't like what the guy says and want him to shut up.
You should be mad at the people committing the violence.
No movie, no matter how offensive, vile, or hate filled, should ever be used any sort of excuse to murder people.
Talking about the guy who made the movie in ANY way is ridiculous.
On September 13 2012 05:03 Leporello wrote: This movie-producer has admitted that he knew the ramifications for this.
I would not protest if this guy were tried for treason in U.S. court. It is an inflammatory movie, made by someone who calls himself Israeli, and he created it with the admitted purpose of inciting violence. Free speech does not cover hate speech.
Yes it does.
The KKK is allowed to march in the streets and shout white power, the Westboro morons are allowed to say whatever crazy things they want about gays.
And thank goodness for it.
Do you really want the government having the authority to decided what ideas and beliefs people are allowed to have?
Our government does it all the time.
You're allowed to be a KKK member, but you're not allowed to berate black people on the street. You'll be given a disturbance charge at the very least. There are certain behaviors that are, in fact, criminal, without being directly violent.
Treason trumps everything. You do not have "free speech" to provoke the death of Americans.
I obviously do not condone the violent reaction to the man's films, but the fact that the man made such political trash knowing it would get people killed --- yeah, that disgusts me.
On September 13 2012 03:45 maliceee wrote: It's time to realize that electing a president friendly to the region does fuck all. It was pure ignorance to view the Arab Spring as a positive in any way. The way the Middle East is being handled is so dysfunctional and amateur. I can only hope the U.S. doesn't start being "friendly" to Russia in the same way. Some countries hate the U.S. for legitimate reasons, stop pretending like they want to be friends.
Well, the Arab Spring was an inevitable process, kleptocratic dictatorships are all doomed to fail at some point and when the information spreads as fast as it does today, domino effect is very likely. And sadly, with the regime that systematically oppressed everyone who opposed it, only the hardest thugs and religious fanatics [no religion bashing intended, simply a factual statement] are left to see it fall.
On September 13 2012 03:40 iTzSnypah wrote: Oh for the love of bacon we better not invade Libya because of this as this seems like a perfect selling point.
I highly doubt that will happen.
Disregarding the political ramifications for the Dems to invade a country when they've been using the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq as points of attack against Repubs, it just doesn't make any sense to respond militarily over the death of an ambassador.
For all intents and purposes, Ambassadors are not civilians. They are agents of the United States government. Facing danger in violent regions is part of what they do. If this was a soldier in Libya on a security detail, there would be almost no backlash whatsoever because people understand that violence and danger is part of a soldier's job. Ambassadors are not much different in this regard.
Bad video in Israel insulting your religion? KILL EVERYONE!!!!!! Sometimes, I just think that the Middle East is too fucked up, that they, both as a civilization and a people, are too fucked up to let them bother us anymore. If they were just like Africa, where the only casualties were each other, then it wouldn't be so bad. Fanatical shitwads would kill fanatical shitwads and a few generations down the line humanity would be a cleaner, better species.
But this is just inexcusable.
At the very least, they could have targeted Israelis, if not the film maker himself (that doesn't sound too hard, does it? Targeting the people who actually did something?). Instead, like the idiotic pieces of shit that they can be, they take to the streets with guns and bombs and do what they do best: show why sometimes, tolerance is not an option. Show why sometimes, mercy is not an option. Show why sometimes, innocent until proven guilty is not an option. Show why sometimes, we just need to clean up our world a little bit. If only they had never come into possession of that oil. Think of it for a second. 9/11 would most likely not have happened. We would not be there waging wars. They would not have the resources and weaponry that they do now, not even close. Countless lives would have been saved. They would have been isolated, as Africa is. All they have done with their new technology is kill each other, and us, more.
They would not matter if they did not have oil.
If only they didn't matter now. If only that was an option. Just having us leave them and their violence and insanity behind.
To those in the middle east who did not take to the streets, who abhor what your fellow countrymen have done: I salute you. You are a shining example of the human race, of why we can't march in their guns blazing, nukes roaring across the sky as the land is purged of life, both good and evil. You are among the greatest of our kind, and so, every time I shake with rage, every time I want to just end millions of lives and have both them and the troubles they cause removed from this earth, I am reminded: no benefit will ever outweigh the cost of what we would lose, and the price we would pay for our sins.
On September 13 2012 05:03 Leporello wrote: This movie-producer has admitted that he knew the ramifications for this.
I would not protest if this guy were tried for treason in U.S. court. It is an inflammatory movie, made by someone who calls himself Israeli, and he created it with the admitted purpose of inciting violence. Free speech does not cover hate speech.
Yes it does.
The KKK is allowed to march in the streets and shout white power, the Westboro morons are allowed to say whatever crazy things they want about gays.
And thank goodness for it.
Do you really want the government having the authority to decided what ideas and beliefs people are allowed to have?
Our government does it all the time.
You're allowed to be a KKK member, but you're not allowed to berate black people on the street. You'll be given a disturbance charge at the very least. There are certain behaviors that are, in fact, criminal, without being directly violent.
Treason trumps everything. You do not have "free speech" to provoke the death of Americans.
Well the KKK is a special case.
They gave up their right to free speech with acts of violence and domestic terrorism that forced the FBI to treat them as a criminal organization.
The Westboro Baptists are in many ways preaching WORSE shit than the KKK used to, but we tolerate them (albeit with clenched teeth) because they are just using words, the minute they start acting on the shit they preach with bombs, lynch mobs and automatic weapons, you can guarantee they'll lose their freedom of speech, and none of us will bat an eye at it.
On September 13 2012 05:12 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Bad video in Israel insulting your religion? KILL EVERYONE!!!!!! Sometimes, I just think that the Middle East is too fucked up, that they, both as a civilization and a people, are too fucked up to let them bother us anymore. If they were just like Africa, where the only casualties were each other, then it wouldn't be so bad. Fanatical shitwads would kill fanatical shitwads and a few generations down the line humanity would be a cleaner, better species.
But this is just inexcusable.
At the very least, they could have targeted Israelis, if not the film maker himself (that doesn't sound too hard, does it? Targeting the people who actually did something?). Instead, like the idiotic pieces of shit that they can be, they take to the streets with guns and bombs and do what they do best: show why sometimes, tolerance is not an option. Show why sometimes, mercy is not an option. Show why sometimes, innocent until proven guilty is not an option. Show why sometimes, we just need to clean up our world a little bit. If only they had never come into possession of that oil. Think of it for a second. 9/11 would most likely not have happened. We would not be there waging wars. They would not have the resources and weaponry that they do now, not even close. Countless lives would have been saved. They would have been isolated, as Africa is. All they have done with their new technology is kill each other, and us, more.
They would not matter if they did not have oil.
If only they didn't matter now. If only that was an option. Just having us leave them and their violence and insanity behind.
To those in the middle east who did not take to the streets, who abhor what your fellow countrymen have done: I salute you. You are a shining example of the human race, of why we can't march in their guns blazing, nukes roaring across the sky as the land is purged of life, both good and evil. You are among the greatest of our kind, and so, every time I shake with rage, every time I want to just end millions of lives and have both them and the troubles they cause removed from this earth, I am reminded: no benefit will ever outweigh the cost of what we would lose, and the price we would pay for our sins.
Were you this angry when a crazy Chinese guy murdered those American tourists in China too? Why is that when an insane Middle Eastern person kills Americans, some people are ready to nuke 300 million people to punish a much smaller segment of the population?
So much hate and intolerance from smart people here in TL, it's disturbing and depressing.
I though that by now some of the smart people in the internet would have realized that differences in ideology don't have too much to do with individual actions of crazy people, but to some of you it's so much easier to insult and hate on a huge group of people for the doings of a few. Because in the muslim religion and culture the name and image of their prophet is sacred, apparently that gives you the the right to mock it, to insult him and all the people who believe in that, because apparently that is what freedom of expression should be about, or because apparently that's how you treat yourselves when deep down is not true and is hate the reason why Muhammed and his people are being insulted.
And the sad reason is: You believe you are so much better than them, how pathetic that is. To feel superior to another human being used to be because they were darker, now it's because they believe in a different religion and have a different culture. I don't even think it's your own fault for having those sad beliefs, let's rewind 50-40 years back, nobody in america had those set of beliefs, but you, that claim to be such a developed individual just absorb everything propaganda throws at you, it's at this point inevitable for you to make the propaganda your own ideal, ideals of hate, prejudice and ignorance, that's the supposed ideology superior than muslims?
On September 13 2012 05:03 Leporello wrote: This movie-producer has admitted that he knew the ramifications for this.
I would not protest if this guy were tried for treason in U.S. court. It is an inflammatory movie, made by someone who calls himself Israeli, and he created it with the admitted purpose of inciting violence. Free speech does not cover hate speech.
Yes it does.
The KKK is allowed to march in the streets and shout white power, the Westboro morons are allowed to say whatever crazy things they want about gays.
And thank goodness for it.
Do you really want the government having the authority to decided what ideas and beliefs people are allowed to have?
Our government does it all the time.
You're allowed to be a KKK member, but you're not allowed to berate black people on the street. You'll be given a disturbance charge at the very least. There are certain behaviors that are, in fact, criminal, without being directly violent.
Treason trumps everything. You do not have "free speech" to provoke the death of Americans.
Well the KKK is a special case.
They gave up their right to free speech with acts of violence and domestic terrorism that forced the FBI to treat them as a criminal organization.
The Westboro Baptists are in many ways preaching WORSE shit than the KKK used to, but we tolerate them (albeit with clenched teeth) because they are just using words, the minute they start acting on the shit they preach with bombs, lynch mobs and automatic weapons, you can guarantee they'll lose their freedom of speech, and none of us will bat an eye at it.
They will never lose freedom of speech (and rightly so). If they start "acting" on things, they will be arrested for the crimes they commit. That's different than losing freedom of speech.
On September 13 2012 05:17 Nevermind86 wrote: So much hate and intolerance from smart people here in TL, it's disturbing and depressing.
I though that by now some of the smart people in the internet would have realized that differences in ideology don't have too much to do with individual actions of crazy people, but to some of you it's so much easier to insult and hate on a huge group of people for the doings of a few. Because in the muslim religion and culture the name and image of their prophet is sacred, apparently that gives you the the right to mock it, to insult him and all the people who believe in that, because apparently that is what freedom of expression should be about, or because apparently that's how you treat yourselves when deep down is not true and is hate the reason why Muhammed and his people are being insulted.
And the sad reason is: You believe you are so much better than them, how pathetic that is. To feel superior to another human being used to be because they were darker, now it's because they believe in a different religion and have a different culture. I don't even think it's your own fault for having those sad beliefs, let's rewind 50-40 years back, nobody in america had those set of beliefs, but you, that claim to be such a developed individual just absorb everything propaganda throws at you, it's at this point inevitable for you to make the propaganda your own ideal, ideals of hate, prejudice and ignorance, that's the supposed ideology superior than muslims?
Sorry, but I feel completely justified in saying that I am better than those who kill innocent people.
Hell, I'll say it again. I'm better than those who kill innocent people. I don't know why anyone would consider that a controversial statement.
EPT
