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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people. Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned! - Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM - Comparing people to Hitler - Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. | ||
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StOiX
Romania14 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:02 Erasme wrote: Seriously ? Since when do we have to please the public ? This is so wrong ... If the public is not pleased with the show then soon there will be no public, then the companies will stop investing money in tournaments, then the players would have no tournaments to play in and win money from their passion. Get it? | ||
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muNsu
Italy37 Posts
Now, do i have to remind you idra gg'ing, forfeiting bo3 after the first map because of whine when it actually meant something? But that's allright because you fans will laugh and call him a badboy. You are just hypocrites. Stephano threw games when they meant nothing to him but to the other players of this group. Also, in REAL sports there wouldn't have even been a discussion. If they wanted to punish him, they could have been "ok, you don't get paid for blizzcup." or maybe "ok, you won't get paid for next gsl season". But this is just so retarded that I can't even begin to understand how you can defend GOM's decision. It's the player that CAN do stupid shit, that can earn or lose them fans, but as long as they don't break the rules it shouldn't be a problem to anyone. THE COMPANY JUST CANT BARGE IN AND TAKE PERSONAL ACTIONS, THAT'S NOT WHAT BEING PROFESSIONAL MEANS. Can you understand this? | ||
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Mallidon
Scotland557 Posts
However, to ban him from the GSL based on this incident? If they had wanted to punish him, a fine or a warning or something would have sufficed. It's a bit of an overreaction to outright ban him imo. I'd also add in that Naniwa's personality seems to be of someone who goes out to win and screw the niceties. In some ways he reminds me of a boxer or a UFC fighter. I can see why he'd do something like this in what he would see as a pointless match that he couldn't win anything from. | ||
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Tantaburs
Canada1825 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:10 peeeky wrote: Before people keep bashing GOM, the new twitter update by Ethan states that Naniwa was merely being considered for the Code S spot (along with Sen/Idra I'm guessing) and that he missed his opportunity. Shouldn't we be thanking GOM for considering Naniwa in the first place? Naniwa earned a code S spot at providence. If they are saying that Naniwa should be banned on the rule that you can't be disreprectful to players then why are there no bans for mule dropping or manner nexi? | ||
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Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:14 .Sic. wrote: "During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours" Gom stepped over the boundaries by deciding that they have the right to determine what play is "offensive to opponents/audience" or not. What exactly about the ensuing furore makes you think GOM got that call wrong? I've read a good few of the 100+ pages of this thread and without exception those opposed to GOM's decision have focused on only a small part of the big picture. Sure, the match didn't matter as far as Naniwa's chances in the competition were concerned. So if that's all you decide to care about, his decision was entirely reasonable. But professional sport is not about pandering to one individual. In professional sport, everyone is in it together: players, spectators, organisers, officials - everyone. It only works if we all pull together. Are victory ceremonies or in-game victory BM (to which this has been compared) against the spirit of the sport? No. Fans love that stuff; it foments rivalries, increase the spectacle. Obviously there is a point where they would become detrimental (literally pissing into your opponent's cubicle for instance), but right now, no. Would Nestea going on tilt and 6-pooling in that same game be against the spirit of the sport? No. A 6-pool is a genuine, if desperate, attempt to win. It would at least show he cared. What Naniwa did, on the other hand, was entirely selfish. He denied Nestea a chance to save face by earning a win, made his sponsors look stupid after they hyped the game, used the match as a platform to humiliate the organisers for their choice of format - a format he signed up for by choosing to take part, disappointed the fans who stayed up to watch - in short, he made it perfectly clear that the only thing he gave a damn about was himself. If you think 'SC2-pro' is just a kind of unofficial league above GM, you're woefully mistaken. Doing anything professionally carries obligations over and above those attached to a recreational activity, because it's no longer just about you. It's about you and the people paying you. You can cook? Great! You want to be a chef? Better start adhering to health and safety and hygiene standards, and getting food out on time and on budget. You can take nice photos? Great! Want to be a wedding photographer? Then you'll be wanting insurance and a network of other pros in case you're ill on the day. You'll be multiply-RAIDing your hard drives, scouting venues, honing your interpersonal and organisational skills so that the wedding party have a great time and great pictures to take away and don't have to spend all day away from their guests. You can play SC2 well? Great! You want to be a pro-gamer? You want a sponsor to pay you and ferry you around from tournament to tournament? You want fans who'll tune in and maybe buy the products you endorse? Then you act like you give a shit, 100% of the time. That's part of the job. | ||
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Darksoldierr
Hungary2013 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:02 drinkpepsi wrote: Except by that logic he played in the entire tournament and then probe rushed the game that just happened to be played after the results of the tournament were decided. If you would build my house and then "probe rush" my roof, and it crashes and i dies, you would be in a terrible position. | ||
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thragar
Canada450 Posts
Unfortunately, the only way for him to learn this is for a severe punishment to come down.. I think he plays really well, but I hope he finds a better... spirit? Outlook? on what he does and wants to do for a living. | ||
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GeNeSiDe
United Kingdom354 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:06 amazingxkcd wrote: What a huge overreaction from GOM. These players are playing for the prize, not for the marketing. Naniwa did nothing wrong with his probe rush. And part of playing for the prize is being paid to play the tournament. It's a game, if I could play 1 extra game of SC a day I would, even if i had just come off a 101 game losing streak. All the best pros say that having a tough skin, getting over your losses and not getting upset is so important to be a top-level player. Obviously Naniwa missed this memo. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10939 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:09 Doodsmack wrote: I'm surprised that no one who is bashing GOM is mentioning the fact that GOM caters first and foremost to their Korean audience, and by Korean cultural standards Naniwa's action was offensive. You shouldn't feel so entitled that GOM is going to cater to foreigners' angry internet forum opinions. Sorry to break it to you but the GSL is played in South Korea and their culture is different than yours. You are displaying a complete unwillingness to accept Korean culture. Just deal with the fact that you can't do anything about it. Where in the world is Naniwas behaviour not offensive? WHERE? | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:09 Benjef wrote: Dude it hard counter 6 pool. 7 probes > 6 drones when microed correctly. In all honesty if Nestea had the same mentality that is what would have happened. This claim is so pathetic it's unreal. First, he did not have 7 but 6 probes. Second, the Zerg only has to wait for his Zerglings to pop to clear your stupid attempt and collect an easy win. Maybe probe rush works in your Bronze league, but this is not exactly the Blizzard Cup level. | ||
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ReboundEU
508 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:11 NHY wrote: I am serious. Are you implying that Nestea fixed the outcome of the match? I certainly am. Considering the importance of the match..the event...and the players involved..the skill they had...can u prove me wrong? Simple a-move not even split? He could have easily do like Naniwa did..just take hands off keyboard..... | ||
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Intact
Sweden634 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:11 NHY wrote: I am serious. Are you implying that Nestea fixed the outcome of the match? Have you watched the games? Nestea runs his massive broodlord flock without support into a viking+ghost ball, runs in some infestors and lings, barely micros except for throwing some infested terrans then GGs right after. To his teammate. | ||
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See.Blue
United States2673 Posts
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HappyChris
1534 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:10 peeeky wrote: Before people keep bashing GOM, the new twitter update by Ethan states that Naniwa was merely being considered for the Code S spot (along with Sen/Idra I'm guessing) and that he missed his opportunity. Shouldn't we be thanking GOM for considering Naniwa in the first place? lol isnt that a lie. Didnt Naniwa win the Code S for being the highest ranked player not in code S in MLG(MLG exchange program). Just like DRG,MMA and MC did before him? | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:07 azka wrote: After reading this, I went to gomtv site, and bought the year pass. As a customer I like they punish this behavior. Well done GOM. I will do the same once I'm done with some schoolwork. So glad a tournament organizer finally has the balls to stand up for the fans, casters, and other players instead of this having this ridiculous western tournament attitude of "This player might be top 100 in the world? He can do whatever the fuck he wants, and we'll pretend to be professional by writing down some rules that we'll never enforce!" | ||
Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:10 redviper wrote: I don't know about you, but I regularly watch show matches. I watched TLO vs MadFrog, Moon vs Sky (sc2 and wc3). I watched Boxer vs FD and Boxer vs Yellow. And you know what I would have been annoyed if any of them played to win to an extreme but I would have been offended if any of them played to lose. I am sure you would have felt the same. Now imagine if it were Boxer vs Yellow in a grandfinal of a starleague or some high-end tournament in a Best of 5 and Boxer had just bunker-rushed Yellow three-times in a row (and won), yet Yellow must continue playing out two more meaningless matches just because it's a Bo5. Would you actually be surprised if Yellow was frustrated enough to cheese or try out stupid strategies just so he could end it early and go home? | ||
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Xax
475 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:11 justinpal wrote: After reading this I wrote an email to GOM to cancel my year pass. Uninstalled my GOM player and plan to never watch GSL again. I unlike you don't need shallow reasons to buy passes, I buy them because I enjoy the games that are being played and have bought every pass even the GSTL pass that was $25. So unlike him you don't need shallow reasons to buy a pass, but you just cancelled your year pass because of shallow reasons? wuuuut? | ||
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babishh
Canada965 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:03 GeNeSiDe wrote: How would you feel if you were at the biggest chess championship of the world, and two highly anticipated players were facing off only to have them suicide every one of their pieces 1 move at a time until a checkmate was inevitable? You'd be just as angry! don't try to compare the two things. that nani vs nestea was worth nothing, nani said many times that fighting for nothing was not in his plans, so he went for the fastest way to end the game. i myself at the beginning thought nani's behaviour was plain bad, but thinking about it, why not. it just put some more salt on the rivalry between them, he first says to nestea to chill out (i see what i did there), then he throw a game that has no feedback on both the players. i would like to suggest, as has been done before during these days, that stephano did the same bullshit during dreamhack, and those games were relevant not for him but for the people he faced. but no one complained that much on his behaviour, at the time. on the decision gom took, i find it's not "ok" (i see what i did there once again) to justify it as "bad behaviour" and kick him out for one season. CoCa and.. who was it, byjun? match-fixed and they resigned their code s spot themselves, but a match-fix pisses me off much more - and i would call it illegal. | ||
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UkGracken
United Kingdom129 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:06 Clbull wrote: You cannot be fucking serious. I think they were just straight out of fucking line to revoke NaNiwa's Code S seed. He rightfully earned it through defeating NesTea, HuK and DongRaeGu and only just being utterly dismantled by Leenock to a 2nd place finish. That has to be absolutely fucking gutting to finally be the first foreigner since HuK to hit Code S and then have it taken away from you due to one mishap. So a genuine, hardworking player went on full tilt, probe rushed his final game that had zero bearing on whether he'd make it out of the Blizzard Cup Ro10 group stage or not and GOMTV punish him by confiscating his Code S spot with zero warning, for something that wasn't even really in the rulebook, was ambiguously defined and was punished more harshly than other comparable offences committed from other players I've read about. I made a pledge not to watch the GSL anyway because I didn't want to be forced to install their media player just to watch their stream (This is something NO OTHER SC2 LEAGUE DOES) and because I didn't want to be restricted to watching at ~9am GMT. Now, thanks to this, I definitely won't be watching the GSL or even considering a season pass purchase at all anytime in the future. And Mr Chae calling NaNiwa a prize-money hunter live on stream? That's an utterly dick thing to call him considering all pro-gamers are arguably "prize money hunters." Why do you think Korean players actually yearn for tournament spots in the West? Because the prize money is much better. Can't you effectively paint Korean players that are well represented in foreign tournaments such as PuMa, HerO, SeleCT, MMA, DongRaeGu, Lucky, Rain etc under the same brush as hunters of prize money too? quoted for truth... now i see how kespa forced gom out of sc1 .... snakes of the gsl | ||
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