While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned! - Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM - Comparing people to Hitler - Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum.
On December 14 2011 22:57 Kfish wrote: Probe rush in BW against terran was viable since probes had more range and could be micro'd, there were also less workers at the beginning.
Probe rush in SC2 is useless, there is NO possible way to win the game unless your opponent is bronze, playing for the first time and doesn't know how to box his workers and a move.
Fact remains, that he probe rushed isn't a valid reason for kicking him out. You can try to twist it as much as you want, it's a valid strategy EVEN if it's for bronze players.
Thats where you are wrong. Probe rushing is not a valid strategy lol, you CANT win with it! Not in SC2, there is just NO WAY you could win a GSL match with a probe rush.
If your argument is "lol but he could beat a bronze first time player" with it then you are really blinded.
On December 14 2011 22:59 deathzz wrote: i dunno to laugh or "not want to live on this planet anymore" when ppl call gom rascist. if it was a korean player who did that in dat match, we would probably never see that guy in any gom organised tournament
Explain to me why Naniwas ( Swede) code S spot didn't go to another Swede in korea but went to Idra and Sen instead?
Because Naniwa wasn't invited because he's a Swede? Nationality has nothing to do with this, Naniwa got invited because of his good tournament results, specifically MLG Providence. Idra and Sen are getting invited for the same reason, good results at tournaments.
What good results? Haven't seen either Sen or Idra perform lately. Also if a Korean player drops out in a foreign tournament a new korean will be invited in pretty much all cases. This is nothing more than racism or money hunting ( which would make chae a hypocrite), take your pick
I am now getting to the point of feeling disgusted with how many posters have brought up the word racism. I really hope its just a small group repeating themselves
On December 14 2011 22:57 Kfish wrote: Probe rush in BW against terran was viable since probes had more range and could be micro'd, there were also less workers at the beginning.
Probe rush in SC2 is useless, there is NO possible way to win the game unless your opponent is bronze, playing for the first time and doesn't know how to box his workers and a move.
Fact remains, that he probe rushed isn't a valid reason for kicking him out. You can try to twist it as much as you want, it's a valid strategy EVEN if it's for bronze players.
even a bronze would have made a weak attempt at microing. his hands were not on the keyboard.
In korea, people are cheering about this news. They think imnestea was ridiculed by naniwa. Even nestea said that he was mad at that time. Before start playing, He thought for a while how to play, but the glorious probe rush came.
Also im korean. I agree about this. I think this is the culture crash.
On December 14 2011 23:05 k1mjee wrote: Justice is served, this is good.
Next time someone else in Code S decides to play stupid and throw a game, maybe they'll think twice about themselves playing SC2 at the highest level in the world.
Naniwa comes from being homeless just a few years ago -- he's not thankful for any of what he's earned/been given, and his attitude comes up every other day. Let this be a LESSON, not a PUNISHMENT.
On December 14 2011 22:57 Kfish wrote: Probe rush in BW against terran was viable since probes had more range and could be micro'd, there were also less workers at the beginning.
Probe rush in SC2 is useless, there is NO possible way to win the game unless your opponent is bronze, playing for the first time and doesn't know how to box his workers and a move.
Fact remains, that he probe rushed isn't a valid reason for kicking him out. You can try to twist it as much as you want, it's a valid strategy EVEN if it's for bronze players.
No it's not. It's as 'valid' as lifting your CC and hoping your opponent gets confused and leaves.
He deserved what came to him, no matter how foreigner-biased guys try to spin it. It's in line with how Korean players have been dealt with in the past.
People should be happy that Sen is in now. He's more deserving skill wise and as a professional.
On December 14 2011 22:57 Kfish wrote: Probe rush in BW against terran was viable since probes had more range and could be micro'd, there were also less workers at the beginning.
Probe rush in SC2 is useless, there is NO possible way to win the game unless your opponent is bronze, playing for the first time and doesn't know how to box his workers and a move.
Fact remains, that he probe rushed isn't a valid reason for kicking him out. You can try to twist it as much as you want, it's a valid strategy EVEN if it's for bronze players.
even a bronze would have made a weak attempt at microing. his hands were not on the keyboard.
defend the hands-on-your-face strategy to me.
Because you need a hand on the keyboard to micro probes away right...
On December 14 2011 23:08 top9696 wrote: (Sorry for my terrible grammer)
In korea, people are cheering about this news. They think imnestea was ridiculed by naniwa. Even nestea said that he was mad at that time. Before start playing, He thought for a while how to play, but the glorious probe rush came.
Also im korean. I agree about this. I think this is the culture crash.
I'm not sure why people are so upset about this, there really wasn't really any other plausible outcome. They need to set an example so it never happens again.
On December 14 2011 22:52 redviper wrote: The thing that makes me chuckle a bit about this whole thing is how Naniwa said "this was a meaningless match". Naniwa losing his Code S seed over this clearly means that the match meant something!
On December 14 2011 23:04 Ertu wrote: I'm really dissapointed by Gom for this decision. DId they punish Nestea for throwing the Blizzcon finals,where something important was actually on the line?? No. But when Naniwa doesn't want to play a group stage match with no impact whatsoever, it's hammer time.
On December 14 2011 18:42 Niyanyo wrote: Wow... I was about to purchase a year pass with the new model, but this is just wrong. It was as much or more fault of the tournament as it was for Naniwa. If this goes thru I am not purchasing de pass as protest.
And I'll buy one to make up for it.
GOM chose to do the right thing even though they knew it would be an unpopular decision, good for them. It's not like he's permanently banned from the GSL.
Besides, I'd rather see Sen in Code S than Naniwa anyway, so it doesn't detract from the viewing pleasure at all imo.
How is this the right thing? The punishment is complete disproportionate to the infraction; I honestly think the only ones that find this appropriate must be anti-fans of Naniwa because his actions don't justify the response by gom.
He deserves a warning; and barely deserves it at that compared to all the other "BM" that goes on. I think the last sentence is the real reason you are happy.
No, not at all. He basically trashed everything GOM has done for the past year and acted like a child AGAIN. He's been repeatedly warned for behavior just like this and should have known very well that GOM wouldn't take kindly to anything like this, yet did it again. Yes, it may be a bit harsh, but it's better than letting him go with a warning.
In all honesty GOM has been very lax with the rules and tried to work with the foreign scene as much as possible, yet Naniwa's stunts both discourage GOM from reaching out to the foreign scene AND make the foreign scene look like ungrateful ego-driven trash. I don't care how good he is at Starcraft, the studio is not the place to act like a child.
And no, please don't attempt to put words in my mouth. I'm happy because he deserved to be punished, that's the bottom line. I'm just saying that the quality of games won't really suffer. And at least Sen knows a thing or two about professionalism.
Don't get me wrong - I don't hate Naniwa (although admittedly I've never been a fan) but stunts like like that when you're supposed to be a foreign representative in a league like GOM is just ridiculous. I hope he manners up in the future (or at least hides it better) and continues to practice as hard as possible, but I doubt it'll happen.
And those of you defending Naniwa. Think about it for a second. Are you the ones who voted that he would win Blizzard Cup? Do you honestly think he had any chance at all to win? Do you really think you are being objective then?
On December 14 2011 23:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: 1. “During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours “ (GOM TV rule)
How many times have we seen manner mules, manner celebrations, or other semi-BM tactics that completely override this rule? It certainly doesn't make the loser *feel good*. And no one ever gets punished for them, because it's part of the game. People need thicker skin. So you're offended. Grab a tissue. So you paid money and wanted to watch Nestea vs. Naniwa? Well tough luck, because you apparently thought...
Comparing this to proberushing is just beyond stupid.
SERIOUSLY... "Taunts" happen in plenty of sports before and after a game. In some, especially 1on1 sports, thye are an important part of the pregame banther.
Giving a thumbs down or making an hadouken or whatever is in no way the same as playing SC2 with one arm while probe rushing while being on television...
On December 14 2011 23:05 k1mjee wrote: Justice is served, this is good.
Next time someone else in Code S decides to play stupid and throw a game, maybe they'll think twice about themselves playing SC2 at the highest level in the world.
Naniwa comes from being homeless just a few years ago -- he's not thankful for any of what he's earned/been given, and his attitude comes up every other day. Let this be a LESSON, not a PUNISHMENT.
The punishment was WAY to severe, that's the problem here.
On December 14 2011 21:50 oban wrote: Way too harsh of a punishment. GOM really are amateurs in every way possible and not worthy of hosting internatoinal tournaments. They fucked over Stephano last time when MC seemed to play to have DRG move to the next round. Wouldn't surprise me at all if the issue is racism.
yes swedish genius
disqualify a misbehaving white dude and invite another white dude to play
totally racist
I've seen people misbehaving plenty of times in the GSL. Not to mention Idra forfeiting games, but apparently it's fine when Americans and Koreans do it, probably due to their partnership with MLG. Idra even put Zenio in the same group as MC and laughed about it afterwards. And he gets invited back into code S? Do you call that sportsmanship?
Gom is a joke organization. I'm sure racism is a big part of their decisions in the last few days.
You gotta be kidding me, you can't seriously be this stupid.
You're allowed to forfeit games. Doesn't matter if you're korean or American or Swedish.
Can you even say, with a straight face, that you believe GOM are racist towards swedes, but not Americans? Because that's seriously the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
You are allowed to forfeit games now? Or did you mean aren't?
I can't explain why they let Idra get away with everything he does, probably because he is the only decent player from the US and has a big fan base. Fact is they are using different standards when it comes to Nani. If not racism then tell me what it's about.
A. Forfeiting a game: Giving up before the games start, or just not showing up. B. Being a douche: Starting the game, doing a tactic which automatically makes you lose within 4 minutes.
Idra did A, Naniwa did B. Therefor, people are pissed off.
I'm surprised that no one who is bashing GOM is mentioning the fact that GOM caters first and foremost to their Korean audience, and by Korean cultural standards Naniwa's action was offensive. You shouldn't feel so entitled that GOM is going to cater to foreigners' angry internet forum opinions. Sorry to break it to you but the GSL is played in South Korea and their culture is different than yours. You are displaying a complete unwillingness to accept Korean culture. Just deal with the fact that you can't do anything about it.
On December 14 2011 23:05 Exoteric wrote: The automaton 2000 AI bot probe rushing would still result in a loss of the game against any person in the GSL.
oh hell no. that thing rape anyone with a probe rush
EPT
