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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 14 2011 23:11 justinpal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:07 azka wrote:
After reading this, I went to gomtv site, and bought the year pass. As a customer I like they punish this behavior.
Well done GOM. After reading this I wrote an email to GOM to cancel my year pass. Uninstalled my GOM player and plan to never watch GSL again. I unlike you don't need shallow reasons to buy passes, I buy them because I enjoy the games that are being played and have bought every pass even the GSTL pass that was $25.
Because you want them to allow more probe rushes.
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On December 14 2011 23:04 Skaminator wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:03 Kompicek wrote:
Wont pay for gom like this, wanted to see more foreigners to play there. Sen is Korean?
Well not, but i personnally have a different view on foreigners, i just never cheer for anyone outside europe and US. So i kinda think of sen as foreigner. No offense though, just my personal preference.
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On December 14 2011 23:12 Mallidon wrote:
I can see their point of view. Naniwa was out, probe rushed to end his game quickly, and that doesn't make for good viewing. A true sportsman would probably have played out that match normally.
However, to ban him from the GSL based on this incident? If they had wanted to punish him, a fine or a warning or something would have sufficed. It's a bit of an overreaction to outright ban him imo.
I'd also add in that Naniwa's personality seems to be of someone who goes out to win and screw the niceties. In some ways he reminds me of a boxer or a UFC fighter. I can see why he'd do something like this in what he would see as a pointless match that he couldn't win anything from.
He is not banned. He just doesn't get Code S seed for Jan 2012.
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Australia8532 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:09 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:53 bkrow wrote:On December 14 2011 22:50 Skwid1g wrote:On December 14 2011 18:42 Niyanyo wrote:
Wow... I was about to purchase a year pass with the new model, but this is just wrong. It was as much or more fault of the tournament as it was for Naniwa. If this goes thru I am not purchasing de pass as protest. And I'll buy one to make up for it. GOM chose to do the right thing even though they knew it would be an unpopular decision, good for them. It's not like he's permanently banned from the GSL. Besides, I'd rather see Sen in Code S than Naniwa anyway, so it doesn't detract from the viewing pleasure at all imo. How is this the right thing? The punishment is complete disproportionate to the infraction; I honestly think the only ones that find this appropriate must be anti-fans of Naniwa because his actions don't justify the response by gom. He deserves a warning; and barely deserves it at that compared to all the other "BM" that goes on. I think the last sentence is the real reason you are happy. No, not at all. He basically trashed everything GOM has done for the past year and acted like a child AGAIN. He's been repeatedly warned for behavior just like this and should have known very well that GOM wouldn't take kindly to anything like this, yet did it again. Yes, it may be a bit harsh, but it's better than letting him go with a warning. GOM has been very lax with the rules and tried to work with the foreign scene as much as possible, yet Naniwa's stunts both discourage GOM from reaching out to the foreign scene and make the foreign scene look like ungrateful and BM trash. I don't care how good he is at Starcraft, the studio is not the place to act like a child. And no, please don't attempt to put words in my mouth. I'm happy because he deserved to be punished, that's the bottom line. I'm just saying that the quality of games won't really suffer. And at least Sen knows a thing or two about professionalism. Don't get me wrong - I don't hate Naniwa (although admittedly I've never been a fan) but bm like that when you're supposed to be a foreign representative in a league like GOM is just ridiculous. I hope he manners up in the future (or at least hides it better) and continues to practice as hard as possible, but I doubt it'll happen.
IF you think probe rushing in a game that literally did not count for anything "trashes everything GOM has done for the past year" then i am afraid we will never agree with each other. That is close to the most dramatic characterisation of the events as i have ever heard.
You admit it is harsh; so i agree with you there - but there is no "letting him off with a warning." From Naniwa's interviews you can tell he cares deeply about competition and being the best - if he knew his Code S spot was at risk you can almost bet he would be on his best behaviour - so a warning would go a lot further. It is an over the top reaction from GOM in a situation that just really isn't their place.
Again - Nani probe rushing will have no effect on how GOM reach out to the foreign community. Nobody would have mentioned it again 2 days from now but now there is all this drama. It was never as big of a deal as it has turned into
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On December 14 2011 23:10 REDBLUEGREEN wrote:
LOL this thread is like a gigantic kindergarden and someone just took the favorite toy away.
Hahaha y'all just mad it is a foreigner, if it was any korean player with 0-10 record behaving like madonna you would be perfectly fine with it.
This!
User was warned for this post
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On December 14 2011 23:11 Daray wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:09 Benjef wrote:On December 14 2011 23:08 ShootingStars wrote:
Probe rushing is a VALID strategy... that's why people DO IT on ladder. -_________________- Dude it hard counter 6 pool. 7 probes > 6 drones when microed correctly. In all honesty if Nestea had the same mentality that is what would have happened. Im sure im too late already but you're wrong.
i mean let's just humor it and theory craft. so you have 6 drones mining, and you're saving up for a pool. assume 7 probes arrive before the pool. okay... so pump 3 more drones instead, run your 6 drones around, then enjoy an ezpz 7 vs. 9 worker fight?
ok. is this analysis flawed? even with 'micro' 7 probe is BS
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On December 14 2011 22:59 bkrow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:54 Excomm wrote:
"It wasn't Naniwa, it was the tournament format."
"It wasn't Naniwa, it was GOM."
"It wasn't Naniwa, it was the build he used."
"It wasn't Naniwa, he didn't break any rules."
"It's not just Naniwa, everyone else does the same thing."
At what point does a player need to take responsibility for their actions, ever?
This generation is in for a shock when they get fired from their job for misconduct or poor performance and they complain, "but we didn't break any rules!"
If any other player had done the same thing, they would have gotten the same punishment (possibly worse for a player on a Korean team) so there is no discrimination here. You can argue the penalty is too harsh, but stop blaming everyone else for this decision. Naniwa has no one to blame but himself. The player is free to be punished by his team. It has nothing to do with GOM since he has not broken any of their rules. The rule they are applying is ridiculous and is being inconsistently applied across the board. GOM doesn't get to decide the standard of games that players put out; Don't talk down to "this generation" because it makes you sound like a pompous ass.
Why can't you just accept the fact that Naniwa was being a disrespectful Ahole to the people that provided him with the chance to play? It's really that simple. You shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you. He was invited to play interesting and entertaining games. He came and probe rushed on of the most anticipated matches of the tourny. He deserves EVERY bit of this punishment.
Don't talk down to "Gom" because it makes you sound like a pompous ass.
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Oh yeah, and having a 0-10 GSL Code A scrub ruin a group of Code S is not exactly fun is it.
I dont care about how "well" he played at MLG aka "koreans jetlagged as fuck playing poorly in ladder-like tourney system".
GSL is the big show and he has not even been able to beat some of the loweliest players there.
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On December 14 2011 23:13 HappyChris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:10 peeeky wrote:
Before people keep bashing GOM, the new twitter update by Ethan states that Naniwa was merely being considered for the Code S spot (along with Sen/Idra I'm guessing) and that he missed his opportunity. Shouldn't we be thanking GOM for considering Naniwa in the first place? lol isnt that a lie. Didnt Naniwa win the Code S for being the highest ranked player not in code S. Just like DRG,MMA and MC did before him?
No
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On December 14 2011 23:12 Umpteen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:14 .Sic. wrote:
"During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours"
Gom stepped over the boundaries by deciding that they have the right to determine what play is "offensive to opponents/audience" or not. What exactly about the ensuing furore makes you think GOM got that call wrong? I've read a good few of the 100+ pages of this thread and without exception those opposed to GOM's decision have focused on only a small part of the big picture. Sure, the match didn't matter as far as Naniwa's chances in the competition were concerned. So if that's all you decide to care about, his decision was entirely reasonable. But professional sport is not about pandering to one individual. In professional sport, everyone is in it together: players, spectators, organisers, officials - everyone. It only works if we all pull together. Are victory ceremonies or in-game victory BM (to which this has been compared) against the spirit of the sport? No. Fans love that stuff; it foments rivalries, increase the spectacle. Obviously there is a point where they would become detrimental (literally pissing into your opponent's cubicle for instance), but right now, no. Would Nestea going on tilt and 6-pooling in that same game be against the spirit of the sport? No. A 6-pool is a genuine, if desperate, attempt to win. It would at least show he cared. What Naniwa did, on the other hand, was entirely selfish. He denied Nestea a chance to save face by earning a win, made his sponsors look stupid after they hyped the game, used the match as a platform to humiliate the organisers for their choice of format - a format he signed up for by choosing to take part, disappointed the fans who stayed up to watch - in short, he made it perfectly clear that the only thing he gave a damn about was himself. If you think 'SC2-pro' is just a kind of unofficial league above GM, you're woefully mistaken. Doing anything professionally carries obligations over and above those attached to a recreational activity, because it's no longer just about you. It's about you and the people paying you. You can cook? Great! You want to be a chef? Better start adhering to health and safety and hygiene standards, and getting food out on time and on budget. You can take nice photos? Great! Want to be a wedding photographer? Then you'll be wanting insurance and a network of other pros in case you're ill on the day. You'll be multiply-RAIDing your hard drives, scouting venues, honing your interpersonal and organisational skills so that the wedding party have a great time and great pictures to take away and don't have to spend all day away from their guests. You can play SC2 well? Great! You want to be a pro-gamer? You want a sponsor to pay you and ferry you around from tournament to tournament? You want fans who'll tune in and maybe buy the products you endorse? Then you act like you give a shit, 100% of the time. That's part of the job.
Read this.
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On December 14 2011 23:01 Rad wrote:
Question, does probe rush beat 6 pool? I've never tried it before but seems like it might if the probes are microed perfectly (and pulled here and there to regen shields).
I know he was just throwing the game but I wonder if this situation would be COMPLETELY different if somehow he pulled off a miraculous win (and the only win I can think of is if nestea went 6 pool and only had 5 drones vs 6 probes).
No it doesn't. Six pool will win.
Probes won't be able to destory hatchery fast enough. You will simply run around with drones until pool finishes and make a pair or two of lings. Probes will die from any confrontation with 5+ drones and 2+ lings or the brood lings from the zerg buildings.
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On December 14 2011 23:06 oban wrote:
How can anyone agree with Gom not only kicking Nani out of code S, but publicly insulting him as well? Seriously what kind of play ground bullies does this community consist off?
Gom is a joke organization run by clowns who demand professionalism from players, but don't act professional themselves. It'll be a cold day in hell before I support them again.
Don't agree with the insult to Nani from Mr Chae. I do agree with the punishment. Naniwa went over the line imo. He needed to be punished since its their tourny. They get to decide what punishment to hand out.
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Nanis behavious wasn't offensive, there was just no reason to play that game.
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Korean Culture > Foreign Progamers
We should just stfu and do as we are told.
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Lol GOM such a joke, you should've established the rules BEFORE the tournament...
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On December 14 2011 23:13 HappyChris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:10 peeeky wrote:
Before people keep bashing GOM, the new twitter update by Ethan states that Naniwa was merely being considered for the Code S spot (along with Sen/Idra I'm guessing) and that he missed his opportunity. Shouldn't we be thanking GOM for considering Naniwa in the first place? lol isnt that a lie. Didnt Naniwa win the Code S for being the highest ranked player not in code S. Just like DRG,MMA and MC did before him?
Ah perhaps, I thought it was Leenock that won the Code S spot for MLG Providence but the exchange system gets confusing. Well, anyways an official statement by GOM would be better at clearing things up.
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On December 14 2011 23:13 Inflicted_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:10 redviper wrote:On December 14 2011 23:04 Mashmed wrote:On December 14 2011 23:03 GeNeSiDe wrote:
How would you feel if you were at the biggest chess championship of the world, and two highly anticipated players were facing off only to have them suicide every one of their pieces 1 move at a time until a checkmate was inevitable? You'd be just as angry! If they played a game of chess that wouldn't give them anything that had no real meaning. Then I wouldn't watch it because there is no point. I don't know about you, but I regularly watch show matches. I watched TLO vs MadFrog, Moon vs Sky (sc2 and wc3). I watched Boxer vs FD and Boxer vs Yellow. And you know what I would have been annoyed if any of them played to win to an extreme but I would have been offended if any of them played to lose. I am sure you would have felt the same. Now imagine if it were Boxer vs Yellow in a grandfinal of a starleague or some high-end tournament in a Best of 5 and Boxer had just bunker-rushed Yellow three-times in a row (and won), yet Yellow must continue playing out two more meaningless matches just because it's a Bo5. Would you actually be surprised if Yellow was frustrated enough to cheese or try out stupid strategies just so he could end it early and go home?
Yes because BW pros would not even consider taking that risk. KeSPA doesn't tolerate that crap or is as lenient as GOM. Your argument is 100% invalid.
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Yellow cheesing in that case would actaully be the perfect answer to getting 3 times bunker rushed?
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On December 14 2011 23:07 oxxo wrote:
Manner mules are not abusive.
Dunno where this 'manner mule' thing started but i find it extremely offensive.I would honestly flip out and flame anyone that would do this to me on ladder.I am a terran and i don't do this to anyone.'Manner mule' is like a spit in the face...Hey look i landed my mule u can gg now...that's just shit
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my own opinion is that naniwa was wrong to do what he did but he had every right to do that if he wishes. i don't think its up to the league to punish his behavior probably more up to his team or if the league does punish him there should be fines, not revoking his spot he earned.
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EPT
