EPTNaNiwa not invited to Code S - Page 168
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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people. Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned! - Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM - Comparing people to Hitler - Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. | ||
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rfr
Sweden7 Posts
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St00r
Sweden4 Posts
Naniwa is the true champion that neither Sen or Idra can match. | ||
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Heff87
United States106 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:09 Doodsmack wrote: I'm surprised that no one who is bashing GOM is mentioning the fact that GOM caters first and foremost to their Korean audience, and by Korean cultural standards Naniwa's action was offensive. You shouldn't feel so entitled that GOM is going to cater to foreigners' angry internet forum opinions. Sorry to break it to you but the GSL is played in South Korea and their culture is different than yours. You are displaying a complete unwillingness to accept Korean culture. Just deal with the fact that you can't do anything about it. If they care about their foreign audience and wish to improve PR in those markets, they better damn well make an effort, it's at the very least bad business. Did GOM try to talk to NaNi at all 1-on-1 after this incident to try to reason with him first? Or was it clearly known up front that every game had to be entertaining, even though the outcome didn't matter? If neither one of those happened then this was a very harsh punishment for a first offense. Seems like more of a culture clash to me, GOM should be more specific in their rules because foreigners don't have the same outlook as Koreans (not intended to be racist at all, just pointing out that there are cultural differences that need to be spelled out on both sides). | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:14 bkrow wrote: IF you think probe rushing in a game that literally did not count for anything "trashes everything GOM has done for the past year" then i am afraid we will never agree with each other. That is close to the most dramatic characterisation of the events as i have ever heard. You admit it is harsh; so i agree with you there - but there is no "letting him off with a warning." From Naniwa's interviews you can tell he cares deeply about competition and being the best - if he knew his Code S spot was at risk you can almost bet he would be on his best behaviour - so a warning would go a lot further. It is an over the top reaction from GOM in a situation that just really isn't their place. Again - Nani probe rushing will have no effect on how GOM reach out to the foreign community. Nobody would have mentioned it again 2 days from now but now there is all this drama. It was never as big of a deal as it has turned into Sorry, but time and time again naniwa has gotten off with warnings and he has proven to us that he has not learned. MLG didn't do anything to him when he called their tournament a joke on the main stage and look what happens a month later. This is like his 2352352th time. Enough is enough. If he's good enough he can sit out this month and get back in the next. | ||
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muNsu
Italy37 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:12 Umpteen wrote: You can play SC2 well? Great! You want to be a pro-gamer? You want a sponsor to pay you and ferry you around from tournament to tournament? You want fans who'll tune in and maybe buy the products you endorse? Then you act like you give a shit, 100% of the time. That's part of the job. You probably don't even understand what you write, so let me help you. You have just said that it's the sponsor that should stop supporting naniwa, it's fan who should stop following him. It's in the league's authority to deny him a chance he earned through hard work and being better than everybody else because of personal and retarded reason. It doesn't happen in any sports, just in this farce that is esports, where if kids cry on tl and reddit stuff like this happens. | ||
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Deleted User 61629
1664 Posts
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Skwid1g
United States953 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:12 muNsu wrote: Esports is just a joke, this confirmed that it won't last more than 1 year now. When the premier league does something so ridicolous it's obvious that it's just a little show to please some fans. He earned the spot, he has been training for this. He threw the game vs nestea because 1) His mentality was crushed, he just lost close games and the last he lost vs MMA was vs a platinum level played cheese. 2) The game was hyped. That's why he didn't want to have such a grudge revenge match in a situation with nothing on the line, it wouldn't have meant anything. whichever side lost would have been "BUT IT WASNT TRYING, IT WASN'T WORTH ANYTHING", even you kids can understand this. 3)Letting them play that was ridicolous. Now, do i have to remind you idra gg'ing, forfeiting bo3 after the first map because of whine when it actually meant something? But that's allright because you fans will laugh and call him a badboy. You are just hypocrites. Stephano threw games when they meant nothing to him but to the other players of this group. Also, in REAL sports there wouldn't have even been a discussion. If they wanted to punish him, they could have been "ok, you don't get paid for blizzcup." or maybe "ok, you won't get paid for next gsl season". But this is just so retarded that I can't even begin to understand how you can defend GOM's decision. It's the player that CAN do stupid shit, that can earn or lose them fans, but as long as they don't break the rules it shouldn't be a problem to anyone. THE COMPANY JUST CANT BARGE IN AND TAKE PERSONAL ACTIONS, THAT'S NOT WHAT BEING PROFESSIONAL MEANS. Can you understand this? You're beyond delusional. Kespa is MUCH more stern than GOM and their supported E-sport seems to have lasted more than a year. They didn't take personal action, they have a rule against it. You can claim that it's vague, but the fact of the matter is that it's there and it was quite obvious that a lot of fans (and players) WERE offended by Naniwa's actions. And you're right - if this was a REAL sport he'd be fined thousands of dollars, I guess he should be happy it's only "E-sports" right? On December 14 2011 23:17 St00r wrote: F*ck you GOM, I was about to purchase a year pass. Now you're doing this. What a joke, NaNi deserves Code S way more then both the zergs. This makes me wanna puke. What a fucking joke. Hope you enjoy loosing loads of your costumers by doing this silly. Learn to host tournaments instead and this would have never happend. Naniwa is the true champion that neither Sen or Idra can match. They do know how to host a tournament, Naniwa just doesn't deserve to play in one. | ||
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:05 FallDownMarigold wrote: obviously? that's not what happened tho But imagine a scenario where some zerg player did the drone rush like Morrow (?) did successfully one time in a tournament? It's a very cheesy build that probably won't work a second time, but it could if an opponent doesn't expect it or mess up his micro (and close rush distance). Would that be ok? Where do you draw the line? What if he had tried to micro? What if he went for some absurd cannon rush? When do you pass the line between cheese and throwing the game? Some say it's because he didn't micro his drones, that would imply it would be ok if he did. We all know players don't play their best or very serious if the games are meaningless, there are many examples of this in sc2. If you want to avoid these kind of scenarious then make sure all games matter in some way. | ||
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
Another thing that bothers me is the players overall status within gom.The players are the ones who have the talent, who provide the entertainment. GOM are profiting of it, making big business. Ofcourse it is a two way deal in many ways but i cant help to feel that the players are being treated like products, mere means to make money. I sure as hell dont want to see robots sitting on the stage playing the game with no emotional investment whatsoever. I want to see humans, individuals, different characters. Stop putting shackles on the players. | ||
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aderum
Sweden1459 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:16 stratmatt wrote: This dude is like 1-12 in the gsl. The only ridiculous thing was that he was even going to be in code s this upcoming season in the first place. He earn it by getting second in what probably was one of the most prestigious tournaments this year (MLG Providence) | ||
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xbankx
703 Posts
Seriously such a good post. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:16 Focuspants wrote: GOM HAS NO RIGHT TO TAKE AWAY A CODE S SPOT THAT DOESNT EXIST FROM A PLAYER THAT THEY WERE CONSIDERING GIVING ONE TO AFTER HE SHIT ON THEIR PREVIOUS TOURNAMENT! How dare they do such a thing, what a bunch of hypocrits, theyre a tyrannical force of racism trying to show their ethnic dominance. Mr Chae is making up rules cause he hates Swedish people! They have to give Naniwa a code S spot because I said so! They have no right to make decisions about their own tournament! Its all because of BO1 series that this happened! They obviously dont know the new strategy where you rush with your probes and play with one hand! Just because people pay hard earned money to watch these tournaments, and take time to support these players doesnt mean the players should be expected to be respectful to the sport or to their money! Come on people. This is ridiculous. Get a grip. Someone messed up big, and their punishment is not getting a gift that the person they just spit on was going to give them. Being outraged by that is completely unreasonable. Here's where you're wrong. They could kick MVP if they wanted... It's their league. You may not agree, but it's their right. (This disregarding everything that happened) | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43590 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:07 oxxo wrote: 1) Manner mules/nexus are not abusive. 2) Every professional sport requires a match to be played out. People always talk about 'Esports' but then refuse to act like professionals when they don't feel like it. 3) What does moving to Korea have to do with anything? Nothing. 1. Dancing units, manner units and buildings, and ceremonies that involve banging on your opponent's booth among other things are absolutely abusive compared to just going all-in early on in the game. In fact, sending your probes to attack isn't abusive at all. Bitbybit says what? 2. No? Nice baseless generalization there. Not in the slightest, and players certainly don't have to play to their fullest potential in every game or set if it's not going to matter in the overall scheme of things. Players and teams often coast until the end if they have to worry about stamina or if they've already won or lost. 3. Moving to Korea epitomizes the seriousness of a foreigner pro-gamer. To be the best, you have to practice with the best. | ||
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sprd
United States33 Posts
The players signed up for it and know that they have to play everyone in their group no matter their record. It would be like the colts just forfeiting the rest of their season because their 0-13. It just doesnt happen in any other sport. If you sign up for the games, you play the games and usually if you "quit" its worse than trying and losing. I dont agree nec with the revoking of code S status, but some form of punishment needed to happen. Im not sure what else it could have been tho. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49490 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:16 Pr0spect wrote: Waking up, √ Reading about NaNiwa's Code S seed revoked, √ Ending my subscription to GOMtv.net, √ root? | ||
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nukkuj
Finland403 Posts
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:15 MildSeven wrote: All these people ranting "no more GSL for me" or "ban GSL" etc. I bet most of you will resubscribe or secretly watch GSL. Yeah. This thread reminds me of all the people that is going to boycott Diablo 3 because of the real money auction house. Too much drama going on in this thread. Naniwa plays in Korea which means he has to follow moral standards/the culture in Korea. He didn't, he got kicked. Period. There is nothing to cry about. Not everyone in the world has to have the same culture or moral standards. | ||
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NHY
1013 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:15 Outsited wrote: my own opinion is that naniwa was wrong to do what he did but he had every right to do that if he wishes. i don't think its up to the league to punish his behavior probably more up to his team or if the league does punish him there should be fines, not revoking his spot he earned. If you think Naniwa had every right to do whatever if he wished, then the same logic applies to GOM too doesn't it? | ||
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Chenz
Sweden1197 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:13 Inflicted_ wrote: Now imagine if it were Boxer vs Yellow in a grandfinal of a starleague or some high-end tournament in a Best of 5 and Boxer had just bunker-rushed Yellow three-times in a row (and won), yet Yellow must continue playing out two more meaningless matches just because it's a Bo5. Would you actually be surprised if Yellow was frustrated enough to cheese or try out stupid strategies just so he could end it early and go home? Except that those games are not meaningless. Yellow would still have had a chance to win the tournament, making your example inappropriate. I'm curious though. Are their actually people that think Naniwa did nothing wrong, and deserve no punishment at all? I could understand arguing about the severity of his punishment, but surely no one can claim that what Naniwa did wasn't a disappointment? A person need to accept the consequences for his actions, and that goes for everyone. That includes Mr. Chae. Slandering players should be below a SC2 tournament manager. | ||
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snafoo
New Zealand1615 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:15 empty.bottle wrote: Lol GOM such a joke, you should've established the rules BEFORE the tournament... Yeah, damn GOM, should of foreseen someone wanting to Probe rush in a tournament that they get paid for even if they don't win a single game. | ||
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