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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
ALLEYCAT BLUES51132 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:17 xbankx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:15 Xax wrote:On December 14 2011 23:12 Umpteen wrote:On December 14 2011 22:14 .Sic. wrote:
"During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours"
Gom stepped over the boundaries by deciding that they have the right to determine what play is "offensive to opponents/audience" or not. What exactly about the ensuing furore makes you think GOM got that call wrong? I've read a good few of the 100+ pages of this thread and without exception those opposed to GOM's decision have focused on only a small part of the big picture. Sure, the match didn't matter as far as Naniwa's chances in the competition were concerned. So if that's all you decide to care about, his decision was entirely reasonable. But professional sport is not about pandering to one individual. In professional sport, everyone is in it together: players, spectators, organisers, officials - everyone. It only works if we all pull together. Are victory ceremonies or in-game victory BM (to which this has been compared) against the spirit of the sport? No. Fans love that stuff; it foments rivalries, increase the spectacle. Obviously there is a point where they would become detrimental (literally pissing into your opponent's cubicle for instance), but right now, no. Would Nestea going on tilt and 6-pooling in that same game be against the spirit of the sport? No. A 6-pool is a genuine, if desperate, attempt to win. It would at least show he cared. What Naniwa did, on the other hand, was entirely selfish. He denied Nestea a chance to save face by earning a win, made his sponsors look stupid after they hyped the game, used the match as a platform to humiliate the organisers for their choice of format - a format he signed up for by choosing to take part, disappointed the fans who stayed up to watch - in short, he made it perfectly clear that the only thing he gave a damn about was himself. If you think 'SC2-pro' is just a kind of unofficial league above GM, you're woefully mistaken. Doing anything professionally carries obligations over and above those attached to a recreational activity, because it's no longer just about you. It's about you and the people paying you. You can cook? Great! You want to be a chef? Better start adhering to health and safety and hygiene standards, and getting food out on time and on budget. You can take nice photos? Great! Want to be a wedding photographer? Then you'll be wanting insurance and a network of other pros in case you're ill on the day. You'll be multiply-RAIDing your hard drives, scouting venues, honing your interpersonal and organisational skills so that the wedding party have a great time and great pictures to take away and don't have to spend all day away from their guests. You can play SC2 well? Great! You want to be a pro-gamer? You want a sponsor to pay you and ferry you around from tournament to tournament? You want fans who'll tune in and maybe buy the products you endorse? Then you act like you give a shit, 100% of the time. That's part of the job. Read this. Seriously such a good post.
oh wow,what a post indeed.
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On December 14 2011 23:17 Boundz(DarKo) wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:15 MildSeven wrote:
All these people ranting "no more GSL for me" or "ban GSL" etc. I bet most of you will resubscribe or secretly watch GSL. Luckily it's pretty easy to watch SC2 and not follow GSL at all. I've managed to do so this whole year and I will for the next as well.
True, you dont even have to suscribe to GSL to watch the matches, they're on youku.
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On December 14 2011 23:14 NHY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:12 Mallidon wrote:
I can see their point of view. Naniwa was out, probe rushed to end his game quickly, and that doesn't make for good viewing. A true sportsman would probably have played out that match normally.
However, to ban him from the GSL based on this incident? If they had wanted to punish him, a fine or a warning or something would have sufficed. It's a bit of an overreaction to outright ban him imo.
I'd also add in that Naniwa's personality seems to be of someone who goes out to win and screw the niceties. In some ways he reminds me of a boxer or a UFC fighter. I can see why he'd do something like this in what he would see as a pointless match that he couldn't win anything from. He is not banned. He just doesn't get Code S seed for Jan 2012.
Same difference tbh.
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On December 14 2011 23:13 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:07 azka wrote:
After reading this, I went to gomtv site, and bought the year pass. As a customer I like they punish this behavior.
Well done GOM. I will do the same once I'm done with some schoolwork. So glad a tournament organizer finally has the balls to stand up for the fans, casters, and other players instead of this having this ridiculous western tournament attitude of "This player might be top 100 in the world? He can do whatever the fuck he wants, and we'll pretend to be professional by writing down some rules that we'll never enforce!"
I'm actually a naniwa fan, but I really feel gom did the right thing here by punishing this type of behaviour. I was sitting on the fence about whether or not to get a yearly subscription to gom, but I'm definitely going to get the subscription now.
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On December 14 2011 23:16 HowardRoark wrote:
Didn't Naniwa get banned from ESL aswell? Or was that someone else?
He did because of some penalty points (no show I think). And everyone who participated in ESL knows how easy you get penalty points there.
Regarding this I understand that Nani's actions were wrong to public but I what if that worked out? Or if Nestea dronerushed him. I bet no one wouldnt care.
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lol, Naniwa being Paris Hilton of esports.. Way to make publicity. On a serious note, we should really make more threads about this.. :D
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Australia8532 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:14 Hubris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:59 bkrow wrote:On December 14 2011 22:54 Excomm wrote:
"It wasn't Naniwa, it was the tournament format."
"It wasn't Naniwa, it was GOM."
"It wasn't Naniwa, it was the build he used."
"It wasn't Naniwa, he didn't break any rules."
"It's not just Naniwa, everyone else does the same thing."
At what point does a player need to take responsibility for their actions, ever?
This generation is in for a shock when they get fired from their job for misconduct or poor performance and they complain, "but we didn't break any rules!"
If any other player had done the same thing, they would have gotten the same punishment (possibly worse for a player on a Korean team) so there is no discrimination here. You can argue the penalty is too harsh, but stop blaming everyone else for this decision. Naniwa has no one to blame but himself. The player is free to be punished by his team. It has nothing to do with GOM since he has not broken any of their rules. The rule they are applying is ridiculous and is being inconsistently applied across the board. GOM doesn't get to decide the standard of games that players put out; Don't talk down to "this generation" because it makes you sound like a pompous ass. Why can't you just accept the fact that Naniwa was being a disrespectful Ahole to the people that provided him with the chance to play? It's really that simple. You shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you. He was invited to play interesting and entertaining games. He came and probe rushed on of the most anticipated matches of the tourny. He deserves EVERY bit of this punishment. Don't talk down to "Gom" because it makes you sound like a pompous ass.
It's not "simple" - quite obviously there is a lot of things at play. Read the rule they are saying he broke; and then think if it makes sense. Or better yet, how many times something else has happened that fits that rule but was never punished. The game didn't count for anything so there was no gain/loss for either player. There were no sinister motives.
If a player wants to probe rush and lose the game; that is their choice. He wasn't invited to play interesting and entertaining games. He was invited to play games. I am not talking down to GOM but i guess you find it hard to discern the difference.
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On December 14 2011 23:12 Umpteen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:14 .Sic. wrote:
"During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours"
Gom stepped over the boundaries by deciding that they have the right to determine what play is "offensive to opponents/audience" or not. What exactly about the ensuing furore makes you think GOM got that call wrong? I've read a good few of the 100+ pages of this thread and without exception those opposed to GOM's decision have focused on only a small part of the big picture. Sure, the match didn't matter as far as Naniwa's chances in the competition were concerned. So if that's all you decide to care about, his decision was entirely reasonable. But professional sport is not about pandering to one individual. In professional sport, everyone is in it together: players, spectators, organisers, officials - everyone. It only works if we all pull together. Are victory ceremonies or in-game victory BM (to which this has been compared) against the spirit of the sport? No. Fans love that stuff; it foments rivalries, increase the spectacle. Obviously there is a point where they would become detrimental (literally pissing into your opponent's cubicle for instance), but right now, no. Would Nestea going on tilt and 6-pooling in that same game be against the spirit of the sport? No. A 6-pool is a genuine, if desperate, attempt to win. It would at least show he cared. What Naniwa did, on the other hand, was entirely selfish. He denied Nestea a chance to save face by earning a win, made his sponsors look stupid after they hyped the game, used the match as a platform to humiliate the organisers for their choice of format - a format he signed up for by choosing to take part, disappointed the fans who stayed up to watch - in short, he made it perfectly clear that the only thing he gave a damn about was himself. If you think 'SC2-pro' is just a kind of unofficial league above GM, you're woefully mistaken. Doing anything professionally carries obligations over and above those attached to a recreational activity, because it's no longer just about you. It's about you and the people paying you. You can cook? Great! You want to be a chef? Better start adhering to health and safety and hygiene standards, and getting food out on time and on budget. You can take nice photos? Great! Want to be a wedding photographer? Then you'll be wanting insurance and a network of other pros in case you're ill on the day. You'll be multiply-RAIDing your hard drives, scouting venues, honing your interpersonal and organisational skills so that the wedding party have a great time and great pictures to take away and don't have to spend all day away from their guests. You can play SC2 well? Great! You want to be a pro-gamer? You want a sponsor to pay you and ferry you around from tournament to tournament? You want fans who'll tune in and maybe buy the products you endorse? Then you act like you give a shit, 100% of the time. That's part of the job.
damn amazing post. i want this to be in a new thread so everyone can see it 
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I don't even get this thread anymore...I thought Providence didn't have a Code S spot...why is everyone talking about this Code S spot that Naniwa earned at Providence?
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It sure is professional to insult a player. Maybe Mr Chae should be suspended for his unprofessional actions then? Not to mention he didn't invite the new Code S based on MLG ranking at all, he did it based on popularity. It almost feels like damage control because they were offended that a player didn't want to participate in a flawed format.
This just leaves a terrible taste in my mouth. I have serious concerns about what this will do to Nani's mindset.
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wow what a joke. As an audience member, I feel so terribly abused by this decision
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245 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:17 xbankx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:15 Xax wrote:On December 14 2011 23:12 Umpteen wrote:On December 14 2011 22:14 .Sic. wrote:
"During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours"
Gom stepped over the boundaries by deciding that they have the right to determine what play is "offensive to opponents/audience" or not. What exactly about the ensuing furore makes you think GOM got that call wrong? I've read a good few of the 100+ pages of this thread and without exception those opposed to GOM's decision have focused on only a small part of the big picture. Sure, the match didn't matter as far as Naniwa's chances in the competition were concerned. So if that's all you decide to care about, his decision was entirely reasonable. But professional sport is not about pandering to one individual. In professional sport, everyone is in it together: players, spectators, organisers, officials - everyone. It only works if we all pull together. Are victory ceremonies or in-game victory BM (to which this has been compared) against the spirit of the sport? No. Fans love that stuff; it foments rivalries, increase the spectacle. Obviously there is a point where they would become detrimental (literally pissing into your opponent's cubicle for instance), but right now, no. Would Nestea going on tilt and 6-pooling in that same game be against the spirit of the sport? No. A 6-pool is a genuine, if desperate, attempt to win. It would at least show he cared. What Naniwa did, on the other hand, was entirely selfish. He denied Nestea a chance to save face by earning a win, made his sponsors look stupid after they hyped the game, used the match as a platform to humiliate the organisers for their choice of format - a format he signed up for by choosing to take part, disappointed the fans who stayed up to watch - in short, he made it perfectly clear that the only thing he gave a damn about was himself. If you think 'SC2-pro' is just a kind of unofficial league above GM, you're woefully mistaken. Doing anything professionally carries obligations over and above those attached to a recreational activity, because it's no longer just about you. It's about you and the people paying you. You can cook? Great! You want to be a chef? Better start adhering to health and safety and hygiene standards, and getting food out on time and on budget. You can take nice photos? Great! Want to be a wedding photographer? Then you'll be wanting insurance and a network of other pros in case you're ill on the day. You'll be multiply-RAIDing your hard drives, scouting venues, honing your interpersonal and organisational skills so that the wedding party have a great time and great pictures to take away and don't have to spend all day away from their guests. You can play SC2 well? Great! You want to be a pro-gamer? You want a sponsor to pay you and ferry you around from tournament to tournament? You want fans who'll tune in and maybe buy the products you endorse? Then you act like you give a shit, 100% of the time. That's part of the job. Read this. Seriously such a good post.
Amazing post. Perfectly sums up my feelings on it all.
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On December 14 2011 23:19 zep wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:13 iamke55 wrote:On December 14 2011 23:07 azka wrote:
After reading this, I went to gomtv site, and bought the year pass. As a customer I like they punish this behavior.
Well done GOM. I will do the same once I'm done with some schoolwork. So glad a tournament organizer finally has the balls to stand up for the fans, casters, and other players instead of this having this ridiculous western tournament attitude of "This player might be top 100 in the world? He can do whatever the fuck he wants, and we'll pretend to be professional by writing down some rules that we'll never enforce!" I'm actually a naniwa fan, but I really feel gom did the right thing here by punishing this type of behaviour. I was sitting on the fence about whether or not to get a yearly subscription to gom, but I'm definitely going to get the subscription now.
Yes months of training and when he finally obtained Code S status he lost if because he worker rushed in meaningless game. It;s not fair at all. They should ban marine+scv then...It's regular strategy as any other.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51132 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:17 rfr wrote:
I had respect for mr. Chae. I do no longer.
soon...
GOMTV launches its television channel.
and you will be like ZOMG I LOVE YOU MISTER CHAE!
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On December 14 2011 23:19 Nawe wrote:
Regarding this I understand that Nani's actions were wrong to public but I what if that worked out? Or if Nestea dronerushed him. I bet no one would care.
Uh, yeah. They would care, and the backlash for Nestea would have probably been even worse.
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On December 14 2011 23:13 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:07 azka wrote:
After reading this, I went to gomtv site, and bought the year pass. As a customer I like they punish this behavior.
Well done GOM. I will do the same once I'm done with some schoolwork. So glad a tournament organizer finally has the balls to stand up for the fans, casters, and other players instead of this having this ridiculous western tournament attitude of "This player might be top 100 in the world? He can do whatever the fuck he wants, and we'll pretend to be professional by writing down some rules that we'll never enforce!"
and inviting idra how ironical
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I am chinese and I find it pretty disrespectful what Naniwa did. You cant do that to an asian. You can see that koreans also taunt their opponents and making ceremonies but you can clearly see all the time that it is just for fun and not serious. Naniwa was not trying to be funny. he just dont care about respect to the opponent.
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On December 14 2011 23:16 Benjef wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:14 NHY wrote:On December 14 2011 23:13 HappyChris wrote:On December 14 2011 23:10 peeeky wrote:
Before people keep bashing GOM, the new twitter update by Ethan states that Naniwa was merely being considered for the Code S spot (along with Sen/Idra I'm guessing) and that he missed his opportunity. Shouldn't we be thanking GOM for considering Naniwa in the first place? lol isnt that a lie. Didnt Naniwa win the Code S for being the highest ranked player not in code S. Just like DRG,MMA and MC did before him? No MLG thought he did. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/naniwas-ascension/Show nested quote +Ultimately he dropped the following four games, and despite not being crowned champion, Naniwa has presented one of the most captivating weeks imaginable, both in and out of the game. In the last week, Naniwa has rage quit of of a GSL match, flown half-way around the world, defeated the two most successful Korean Starcraft 2 players back-to-back, sparked a rivalry with Nestea, been the center of controversy in a rematch against Nestea, let a National Championship slip through his fingers and earned a seat in Code S.
Sadly, MLG don't give out GSL seeds.
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naniwa got what he derserved he's just an ill-manered abusive player
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On December 14 2011 23:17 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:12 muNsu wrote:
Esports is just a joke, this confirmed that it won't last more than 1 year now. When the premier league does something so ridicolous it's obvious that it's just a little show to please some fans. He earned the spot, he has been training for this. He threw the game vs nestea because 1) His mentality was crushed, he just lost close games and the last he lost vs MMA was vs a platinum level played cheese. 2) The game was hyped. That's why he didn't want to have such a grudge revenge match in a situation with nothing on the line, it wouldn't have meant anything. whichever side lost would have been "BUT IT WASNT TRYING, IT WASN'T WORTH ANYTHING", even you kids can understand this. 3)Letting them play that was ridicolous.
Now, do i have to remind you idra gg'ing, forfeiting bo3 after the first map because of whine when it actually meant something? But that's allright because you fans will laugh and call him a badboy. You are just hypocrites. Stephano threw games when they meant nothing to him but to the other players of this group. Also, in REAL sports there wouldn't have even been a discussion. If they wanted to punish him, they could have been "ok, you don't get paid for blizzcup." or maybe "ok, you won't get paid for next gsl season". But this is just so retarded that I can't even begin to understand how you can defend GOM's decision. It's the player that CAN do stupid shit, that can earn or lose them fans, but as long as they don't break the rules it shouldn't be a problem to anyone. THE COMPANY JUST CANT BARGE IN AND TAKE PERSONAL ACTIONS, THAT'S NOT WHAT BEING PROFESSIONAL MEANS. Can you understand this? You're beyond delusional. Kespa is MUCH more stern than GOM and their supported E-sport seems to have lasted more than a year. They didn't take personal action, they have a rule against it. You can claim that it's vague, but the fact of the matter is that it's there and it was quite obvious that a lot of fans (and players) WERE offended by Naniwa's actions. And you're right - if this was a REAL sport he'd be fined thousands of dollars, I guess he should be happy it's only "E-sports" right? Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:17 St00r wrote:
F*ck you GOM, I was about to purchase a year pass. Now you're doing this. What a joke, NaNi deserves Code S way more then both the zergs. This makes me wanna puke. What a fucking joke. Hope you enjoy loosing loads of your costumers by doing this silly. Learn to host tournaments instead and this would have never happend.
Naniwa is the true champion that neither Sen or Idra can match. They do know how to host a tournament, Naniwa just doesn't deserve to play in one.
Kespa had rules, Kespa enforced rules with an iron fist. Kespa didn't arbitrarily decide a play style is offensive and kick someone out of an individual league, then lie and say they were never in the league, just being "considered" for a spot.
You can agree or disagree with how they run things but there is a serious difference here.
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EPT
